End Times and Current Events

General Category => Music => Topic started by: Mark on May 13, 2011, 04:14:12 am



Title: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Mark on May 13, 2011, 04:14:12 am
Let me start by saying there is no such thing as a "Christian metal band" or death metal or any of that other garbadge. and this article should be an eye opener for thse who think there is. 

Pro-life group calls for boycott of Christian band over charity tour for pro-abort teen website

A leading pro-life group for teens is calling for a boycott of a Christian metal band over its participation this month in a charity tour for a pro-abortion website.

Bryan Kemper, president of Stand True Ministries, revealed last week that the Pennsylvania-based band Texas in July is taking part in the Take Action Tour, which is raising funds this year for the website Sex, etc.  The Take Action Tour’s website says the organization will receive 10% of the proceeds from the tour.

Sex, etc. provides information on where to obtain abortions, linking to the National Abortion Federation and NARAL, and advises pregnant teens who are exploring their “options” to go to Planned Parenthood facilities.

They also criticize crisis pregnancy centers for offering “misleading and medically inaccurate information about abortion,” saying “their agenda is to dissuade women from obtaining abortions.”

The website also claims that “having an abortion will not alter your ability to become pregnant again later in life” and that there is “no evidence that having more than one abortion causes any health problems.”

After giving Texas in July a week to respond to his concerns, Kemper raised the issue on his blog May 2nd and called on supporters to join a boycott of the band through a Facebook page. 

The band responded on their Facebook page May 4th, insisting that their group “in no way favours abortion and are at a loss for words for those saying hurtful and untrue things about our band’s beliefs and motives.”

Along with their statement, Texas in July posted a statement from Sex, etc. claiming that the site provides “accurate, age-appropriate information.”  Using the language of abortion activists, the site’s statement also noted that it has contributors who are both “pro-choice and anti-choice.”

Kemper says his two main concerns are that the band is fundraising for the pro-abortion website, and that the band has directed kids to the site for “accurate information.”

“If this was just them playing with secular bands, I have no problem,” he told LifeSiteNews.  “But when a Christian band plays a full benefit tour and then encourages kids to spend their money when part of that money will be going to Sex, etc., that’s a problem.”

“When a Christian band like Texas in July is pointing kids to Sex, etc. for accurate information, that’s dangerous,” he added.

The band won support, however, from another pro-life group for teens, Rock for Life.  The group’s executive director, Erik Whittington, defended the group in a May 6th statement, and encouraged pro-lifers to support the band through the Facebook page ‘I Support Texas in July on the Take Action Tour’.

Whittington acknowledged that the tour “unfortunately” chose a “very questionable organization” to support, but said Texas in July “are most likely the only pro-life voice that will be heard on the Take Action tour. So, why are pro-lifers aggressively going after TIJ?”

He suggested the campaign should be directed at Sex, etc. or the Take Action Tour instead, and argued that Sex, etc. is “most likely spending more money than they’re making on this tour.”  He also suggested the band should continue the tour out of a duty to honor its contract.

Kemper told LifeSiteNews, however, that the Take Action Tour “very clearly was a fundraiser” for Sex, etc.

“We cannot as Christians point any kids to that website, which is definitely not accurate at all,” Kemper said.  “If they’re promoting this website to kids, parents need to know that.”

“I would encourage anybody that contacts the band to please do so in love and respect,” he added. “You have a better chance of maybe reaching to someone if we do it respectfully rather than out of anger.”

LifeSiteNews.com did not hear back from Texas in July by press time.

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/pro-life-group-calls-for-boycott-of-christian-band-over-charity-tour-for-pr?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+delicious%2Fgqlf+%28Christian+Headlines+Top+Headlines%29


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Mark on May 13, 2011, 04:16:06 am
of course i had to look at a vid of this band just to verify it. that lasted less than 10 seconds.  :D

dont start it unless you have never heard this stuff before. only posting for refference.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KvphaUYqgM

This kind of stuff is of Satan.


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Christian40 on May 13, 2011, 04:28:49 am
I wont be listening  ::)


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Kilika on May 13, 2011, 02:26:06 pm
13   For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 
14   And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 
15   Therefore [it is] no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
2 Corinthians 11:13-15 (KJB)


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: seekingtheanswers on May 13, 2011, 06:29:47 pm
sheesh, they sound demonic. i would drop in on calvary churches in the past and they would have christian rock but not this stuff but a little levin.....


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: adorerofblood on July 18, 2011, 06:35:52 am
Let me start by saying there is no such thing as a "Christian metal band" or death metal or any of that other garbadge. and this article should be an eye opener for thse who think there is.   ...

Hi Dok

I wish to take you on regarding this statement. As a Christian musician, and lover of metal music, I cannot believe what I am hearing. Can you please explain to me, firstly, how Christian metal is garbage? How can something done in the name of the Lord be regarded as garbage? Secondly, how can the actions of ONE band define your views on Christian metal?

I happen to be in a Christian metal band, and I find your statement offensive.


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Mark on July 18, 2011, 07:05:08 am
Hi Dok

I wish to take you on regarding this statement. As a Christian musician, and lover of metal music, I cannot believe what I am hearing. Can you please explain to me, firstly, how Christian metal is garbage? How can something done in the name of the Lord be regarded as garbage? Secondly, how can the actions of ONE band define your views on Christian metal?

I happen to be in a Christian metal band, and I find your statement offensive.

Hello and welcome.  :)

Quote
firstly, how Christian metal is garbage?

Psalm 98:4 Make a joyful noise unto the LORD, all the earth

kind of sums it up there doesnt it.

Quote
How can something done in the name of the Lord be regarded as garbage?

Your kidding right? You must be young. The Catholic church claims to be in the name of the Lord. Would you like to go through their filth, all done in Jesus's name. Just because some says they are doing it in Jesus's name does not mean it is actually approved by Jesus himself.

Quote
how can the actions of ONE band define your views on Christian metal?

easily, start here. http://endtimesandcurrentevents.freesmfhosting.com/index.php/topic,322.msg6998.html#msg6998

Also lets talk about your pic, (http://endtimesandcurrentevents.freesmfhosting.com/cavatars/endtimesandcurrentevents/avatar_196.png)

Seriously? a partial pentagram?


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: adorerofblood on July 18, 2011, 07:14:50 am
Thanks for the welcome Dok.

I'm afraid that Psalm 98:4 does not sum anything up. Please explain how it does?

Quote
Just because some says they are doing it in Jesus's name does not mean it is actually approved by Jesus himself

That is true, obviously you can't commit **** in the name of the Lord, but this also doesn't mean that anything that isn't explicitly mentioned in the Bible is sin. Please explain to me how Jesus disapproves of Christian metal?

I put this pic up specially for people like you, with all due respect. The partial pentagram is the symbol off an album from the Christian metal band Oh Sleeper. The image signifies the 'horns' torn of off evil i.e. defeat of evil

Check out the lyrics for a metal band by the name of For Today. If you claim they are disapproved of by God, then something is seriously wrong...



Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Mark on July 18, 2011, 07:30:01 am
Thanks for the welcome Dok.

I'm afraid that Psalm 98:4 does not sum anything up. Please explain how it does?

  :D Because its not a joyfull noise.  :D

That is true, obviously you can't commit **** in the name of the Lord, but this also doesn't mean that anything that isn't explicitly mentioned in the Bible is sin. Please explain to me how Jesus disapproves of Christian metal?

1 Thess 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

The Bible says to stay away from all "apperances" of evil. Well just what do you think these metal bands are basing their sound and out look on? Pink Floyd? no... more like Black Sabbath? Yes....


I put this pic up specially for people like you, with all due respect. The partial pentagram is the symbol off an album from the Christian metal band Oh Sleeper. The image signifies the 'horns' torn of off evil i.e. defeat of evil

Your kidding right? I mean seriously you have to be kidding me. Thats like putting the triquetra on the cover of a Bible and calling it good. Again, we are to Abstain from all appearance of evil not revel in it and call it good.

Isaiah 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Check out the lyrics for a metal band by the name of For Today. If you claim they are disapproved of by God, then something is seriously wrong...

I could check out some of the Catechisms of the Cayholic church, or some of the writings of Muhammad or Joeseph Smith, still doesnt make it of Jesus.



Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Mark on July 18, 2011, 07:34:23 am
You should really listen to the teachings i posted earlier. Scott does a good examining these so called christian bands. The whole thing starts here at Scott's site. http://www.contendingfortruth.com/?p=3104



Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: adorerofblood on July 18, 2011, 07:40:38 am
Quote
Because its not a joyfull noise

Perhaps to you yes. To me, it is a joyful noise. I believe God loves all forms of music. I could also say that jazz is not a joyful noise, and thus God does not approve of it

Quote
1 Thess 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

The Bible says to stay away from all "apperances" of evil. Well just what do you think these metal bands are basing their sound and out look on? Pink Floyd? no... more like Black Sabbath? Yes....

And who defines what an appearance of evil looks like? Black Sabbath? Have you ever even listened to Black Sabbath? Assumptions mean nothing to me man. In all things you will find forms of evil, that does not mean you cannot turn it around for the glory of God.

Quote
Your kidding right? I mean seriously you have to be kidding me. Thats like putting the triquetra on the cover of a Bible and calling it good. Again, we are to Abstain from all appearance of evil not revel in it and call it good.

Isaiah 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

That comparison makes no sense to me, sorry. p.s. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triquetra#Christian_use

Quote
I could check out some of the Catechisms of the Cayholic church, or some of the writings of Muhammad or Joeseph Smith, still doesnt make it of Jesus.

Then you judge before you investigate.


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Mark on July 18, 2011, 07:56:47 am
Perhaps to you yes. To me, it is a joyful noise. I believe God loves all forms of music. I could also say that jazz is not a joyful noise, and thus God does not approve of it

No not really sorry.
Isaiah 25:5 Thou shalt bring down the noise of strangers, as the heat in a dry place; even the heat with the shadow of a cloud: the branch of the terrible ones shall be brought low.

There really is music that he does nto like.

And who defines what an appearance of evil looks like? Black Sabbath? Have you ever even listened to Black Sabbath? Assumptions mean nothing to me man. In all things you will find forms of evil, that does not mean you cannot turn it around for the glory of God.

Oh, i know all about Black Sabbath. Im not exactly young and sure wasnt raised a Christian. Im well aquanted with all the workings of Satan.

That comparison makes no sense to me, sorry. p.s. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triquetra#Christian_use

Well maybe you should start a study on it then and learn just where these symbols and charms come from that you use so casually. The Trquetra is in no way a Christian symbol, as for starters God forbids them in Exo 20, and the symbol is pagan predating Jesus advant. 

Then you judge before you investigate.

Not at all, as i have read all those writings that i mentioned.  :)

It seems to me that you are now trying to just justify your beliefs and are looking for approval for it. You should be asking Jesus that question through prayer through the Holy Spirit.  :)


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: adorerofblood on July 18, 2011, 08:22:32 am
Quote
Isaiah 25:5 Thou shalt bring down the noise of strangers, as the heat in a dry place; even the heat with the shadow of a cloud: the branch of the terrible ones shall be brought low.

There really is music that he does not like.

And how do you know that this verse is referring to metal? Why does it refer to metal? How does it even explicitly refer to music?

Quote
Not at all, as i have read all those writings that i mentioned.

Then please, if anything, explain to me how you come to the conclusion that all metal is ungodly. Even though metal bands have lead thousands of people to Christ

Quote
It seems to me that you are now trying to just justify your beliefs and are looking for approval for it. You should be asking Jesus that question through prayer through the Holy Spirit.

It seems to me that you quote scriptures out of context, and are intolerant to things you don't understand. You don't have to like it, but calling it 'from Satan' is a slap in the face of these people. And me. These people go out into the places you would probably never set foot, to share the Word of the Lord


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Mark on July 18, 2011, 08:57:39 am
And how do you know that this verse is referring to metal? Why does it refer to metal? How does it even explicitly refer to music?

Because it is talking about the music of the starnger, ie the pagan peoples. And that is where modern Rock/Metal comes from. You dont have to like it but it is a fact. Do you even know where modern musci comes from? Because its not modern, been around a loooong time.

Then please, if anything, explain to me how you come to the conclusion that all metal is ungodly. Even though metal bands have lead thousands of people to Christ

Your kidding right? Thats like saying Benny Hinn has led people to Jesus at his Million person crusades.  :D Again listen to Scotts teaching on this, it will open your eyes to what you are being blinded to.

It seems to me that you quote scriptures out of context, and are intolerant to things you don't understand. You don't have to like it, but calling it 'from Satan' is a slap in the face of these people. And me. These people go out into the places you would probably never set foot, to share the Word of the Lord

Not at all, i use them in the correct context as led by the spirit. Tolerant? Yes i am intollerant as i will not change Gods word to fit my personal belief. We are called to be intollerant and to not be like others. You dont know me or what i have done or places i have been. That statement just makes you look desperate. ::) 

2 Corinthians 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.



Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Mark on July 18, 2011, 09:05:05 am
Speaking of Tolerance...

The New Tolerance
http://endtimesandcurrentevents.freesmfhosting.com/index.php/topic,1350.0.html


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: adorerofblood on July 18, 2011, 09:08:19 am
So basically, rock/metal is strange to you, so it must be from satan.

Quote
Your kidding right? Thats like saying Benny Hinn has led people to Jesus at his Million person crusades.  Cheesy Again listen to Scotts teaching on this, it will open your eyes to what you are being blinded to.

You like doing comparisons, but you avoid my questions.

Its transcends my understanding that you can call music good or evil regardless of the lyrics. A musical genre cannot be evil. Are knives evil? Is fire evil? Is worship evil? No, they are neutral. How you use them determine  their impact, for good or for the better.

Don't get me wrong, I understand that people have their own ways. And I in no way question your relationship with Jesus, or your biblical knowledge, nor your past experiences. This is however a very personal topic to me, I feel very strongly about it.


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Mark on July 18, 2011, 09:23:27 am
So basically, rock/metal is strange to you, so it must be from satan.

You like doing comparisons, but you avoid my questions.

Its transcends my understanding that you can call music good or evil regardless of the lyrics. A musical genre cannot be evil. Are knives evil? Is fire evil? Is worship evil? No, they are neutral. How you use them determine  their impact, for good or for the better.

Don't get me wrong, I understand that people have their own ways. And I in no way question your relationship with Jesus, or your biblical knowledge, nor your past experiences. This is however a very personal topic to me, I feel very strongly about it.

What good id the lyrics when the music that goes with it is corrupt. Come on, would you drink a cup of water if i added just a couple drops of antifreeze to it? The same analogy applies. And it is a personal thing. Hey I'm a huge Pink Floyd fan. I used to listen to Metalica before they sold out. I understand the music. What i don not understand is the way it has pervaided into the Christian Culture. It is just another eroding of Biblical Beliefs. This kind of music is shunned upon in other countries by Christians, especially in Africa. But not here in America where we have to be "tolerant" of everyone and everything.

Music is very culturally controlling, and the culture will tend to follow the path of the music. Christianity has already embraced this kind of music and look at where some of it stands now. Goth Christians? Really? groups of kids that extole death, thinking its ok? Hanging out in cemeteries and all kinds of other stuff. And that is just one aspect of allowing this in.

Sorry but look at your self. You are using a pentagram and trying to justify its use and existence. When Jesus himself said to NOT DO THAT!. Are you saying you know better than Jesus? You must as you are trying to justify using stuff he said not to.

Jesus told Israel not to intermarry with any of the pagan peoples, as they will bring in their beliefs and other gods with them. Israel did not listen at all, and look at how that turned out for them. Even Soloman, Davids own son chosen to build the Temple, was led astray by his wives and their customs. And he is now in hell for it. It doesn't take much to lead one astray and to bring in pagan beliefs....


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: adorerofblood on July 18, 2011, 11:44:11 am
But what makes the music corrupt? If I play a heavily distorted guitar riff is it evil? If I play a blast beat is that evil? Maybe when I combine the two, does it become more evil and corrupt? How does it erode Biblical beliefs? By the way, I live in Africa...

Goth Christians is a different debate, but what does that have to do with music? The goth culture is not tied to a genre of music.

I can't see how metal is 'pagan'.... How much more 'pagan' is metal than, say, rap? How about rock? Jazz? Classical? Folk music probably has way way more true pagan influences than metal. So like, is light worship songs and hymns the only music acceptable to God?

And I'm using a broken pentagram. Not a pentagram. Signifying the defeat of evil. By your arguments, we are never to depict images of satan, images of demons, any evil, no sin, not even to get a point across.


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Mark on July 18, 2011, 12:56:05 pm
But what makes the music corrupt? If I play a heavily distorted guitar riff is it evil? If I play a blast beat is that evil? Maybe when I combine the two, does it become more evil and corrupt? How does it erode Biblical beliefs? By the way, I live in Africa...

Why not pray about it and let the Spirit guide you? Your obiosly not going to believe anything i say. Like im lyin gor something.  ::)

Goth Christians is a different debate, but what does that have to do with music? The goth culture is not tied to a genre of music.

Not really, just how do you think they got that way? Through their music. I was a big time fan of Goth music. Loved it, its music that sets the culture, not the other way around.

I can't see how metal is 'pagan'.... How much more 'pagan' is metal than, say, rap? How about rock? Jazz? Classical? Folk music probably has way way more true pagan influences than metal. So like, is light worship songs and hymns the only music acceptable to God?

Where did metal music come from? Trace its origins than get back to me. Here is a good start. http://www.contendingfortruth.com/?p=1197

And I'm using a broken pentagram. Not a pentagram. Signifying the defeat of evil. By your arguments, we are never to depict images of satan, images of demons, any evil, no sin, not even to get a point across.

Call it what you will, it is still a pentagram and you are using it.

Quote
By your arguments

Do you read your Bible or just use it as a crutch to get listeners like POD? or any other so called Christian music group? Its not my argument. I didnt write the Bible. How about taking that one up with the guy that did?

How about some links to your band so we can all make an informed decision?


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on July 18, 2011, 01:06:18 pm
I'll go ahead and throw in my 2 cents - Christian Rock/Contemporary Christian music didn't even exist 100 years ago, let alone during the Vietnam War era. If they were heard in the churches then, they would have been tossed out almost immediately. And somehow now it's accepted??

It's no different from denominations ordaining gay clergy, Rick Warren and the Emergents having all these "leadership" conferences for the first time, etc...they were condemned in the church for decades upon centuries, and now they're accepted??

Look, I'm not trying to call you out or anything - just saying that the bible clearly says stay with the OLD paths. Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever.


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: adorerofblood on July 18, 2011, 02:24:04 pm
Dok, the Spirit does guide me. I'm not perfect though. And it's not like I think you're lying or something, you have different convictions to me. Metal may be wrong for you, but it's right for me and many others, and it does not contradict the Word of the Lord.

So why not let a positive form of metal swing the culture in favor of God? I've seen it happen.

I'll take you up on that and attempt to trace it's origins, but that alone cannot discredit it. If we cut out everything from our lives which had an ungodly beginning, where would we be? Riding donkeys?

Do you actually think that bands claim to be Christian to get more listeners? Because that would be laughable. To a 'metalhead', there can be no bigger turn-off than a Christian metal band.

Hi BornAgain2: It may be a recent establishment, but how does that make it wrong? Human culture evolves... yet that obviously does not mean God and His Word evolves. What's wrong with Rick Warren? Just because the church condemned it, does that necesarily mean God condemns it?

Could you please point me to the Bible reference about sticking to the old paths? Jesus is definetely the same yes, but why not find different, more creative ways to worship Him? Do you follow the Word word for word, exactly as its stands written?


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on July 18, 2011, 03:49:06 pm
Hi BornAgain2: It may be a recent establishment, but how does that make it wrong? Human culture evolves... yet that obviously does not mean God and His Word evolves. What's wrong with Rick Warren? Just because the church condemned it, does that necesarily mean God condemns it?

Could you please point me to the Bible reference about sticking to the old paths? Jesus is definetely the same yes, but why not find different, more creative ways to worship Him? Do you follow the Word word for word, exactly as its stands written?

FYI - Warren is a member of the Council on Foreign Relations, which is working to tear down the soverienty of America and bring in global government. The whole North American Union with the new currency Amero is being pushed by the CFR, and Congress has been working them in secret to do so. The CFR has been pushing these poisoned flu shots as well(they were literally laughing about it in an ad they made 2 years ago).

Warren has also been pushing for UNITY between Christians and Muslims(and other religious faiths in this world). Supposedly, he wants to do so to fight all the "global giants" in this world. Big problem is that he's EXCLUDING Jesus Christ and giving him all the glory in his P.E.A.C.E. plan. Another big red flag is that he's working with people like Bono and Kenneth Blanchard(both New Agers) in his P.E.A.C.E. plan.

Jer 6:16  Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.

2Ti 1:13  Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

And yes, churches that have yoked up with Warren's PDL have been leavened - they're doing things like rock music instead of traditional praise hymns, no longer calling business meetings(showing financial statements et al), showing movies during the sermon hour, relabeling Sun School to more PC terms like Happy Fellowship Hour/LIFE Groups, using secular psychology materials from Carl Jung et al instead of their bibles during Sun School hours, reprimanding "resisters" aka those who don't want to follow the PDL plan(a couple of reports had pastors putting the elderly Sun School classes in uncomfortable rooms b/c they did just that - sounds pure evil, doesn't it?), pastors no longer having pulpits at the front and their dress is becoming more casual, etc. And Warren's Saddleback ministry is actually profiting million$ from this(ie-charging these churches to access his web site and encouraging them to download his sermons, charging them for movies sent to them, etc).

Judgement starts at the house of the Lord, doesn't it? God is not a respecter of persons - he didn't give Solomon(who at one time was the most wisest man in the bible) a free pass, did he?

Is Your Church Going Purpose Driven?
How Can You tell?

In the past ten years a large percentage of churches in America, and in other countries have changed from a traditional New Testament church model to a contemporary Purpose Driven model, many with sorrowful results.
 
Contrary to Purpose Driven Church propaganda, millions have been leaving their churches after the change occurred. It is important that every church member know if their church is targeted for a Purpose Driven Church takeover.  Initially, a small clique of church staff, possibly including the pastor or a new pastor, plans the change without telling the rest of the church membership.
 
Church Transitions, an associate of Saddleback Church in California, trains the clique initiating the change in eight published steps. The church membership is not to be informed of the transition until the fourth step. After the sixth step in the process of change, if there are some in the church who voice concerns, the following is suggested:
 
1.  Identify those who are resisting the changes;
2.  Assess the effectiveness of their opposition;
3.  Befriend those who are undecided about the changes;
4.  Marginalize more persistent resisters;
5.  Vilify those who stay and fight; and
6.  Establish new rules that will silence all resistance.
 
This means the church membership is not told until it is too late to make a difference. In other words, the church is stolen. Then the members either accept the changes, or leave the church, which they may have served and given to build.
 
Dr. Rick Warren, author of "The Purpose Driven Church" and "The Purpose Driven Life" has boasted: "When you reveal the vision to the church, the old pillars are going to leave. But let them leave... they only hold things up."
 
Dr. Warren is right in one way. It is the senior members of the church who do indeed hold a church up and keep it from falling into apostasy. While some PDC initiators may not implement the full PDC format, generally, these are the signs that your church is targeted for a Purpose Driven Church format:
 
1. Change in music to a contemporary rock style.
2. Removal of hymn books; eliminating the choir.
3. Replacement of organ and piano with heavy metal instruments.
4. Repetitive singing of praise lyrics.
5. Dressing down to casual and informal attire.
6. Eliminating of business meetings, church committees, council of elders, board of deacons, etc.
7. The pastor, or a new leader with a few assistants, usually four, takes charge of all church business.
8. A repetitive 40-day Purpose Driven Church study program stressing psychological relationships with each other, the community, or the
     world, begins.
9. Funded budgeted programs are abandoned, or ignored, with ambiguous financial reports made.
10. Sunday morning, evening, and/or Wednesday prayer meetings are changed to other times; some may even be eliminated.
11. Sunday School teachers are moved to different classes, or replaced by new teachers more sympathetic with the changes being
       implemented.
12. The name "Sunday School" is dropped and classes are given new names.
13. Crosses and other traditional Christian symbols may be moved from both the inside and outside of the church buildings. The pulpit
       may also be removed.
14. In accordance with Dr. Warren’s instructions, new version Bibles are used; or only verses flashed on a screen are referenced during
       regular services.
15. Purpose Driven Church films, purchased from Saddleback, precede or are used during regular services.
16. The decor, including the carpets, may be changed to eliminate any resemblance to the former church.
17. The word "church" is often taken from the name of the church, and the church may be called a "campus". Denominational names
       may also be removed.
18. An emphasis on more fun and party sessions for the youth.
19. Elimination of altar calls or salvation invitations at the close of the services.
20. The elimination of such words as "unsaved", "lost", "sin", "Hell", "Heaven" and other Gospel verities from the pastor’s messages.
21. The reclassification of the saved and lost to the "churched" and the "unchurched".
22. The marginalizing, or ostracizing, of all who are not avid promoters of the new Purpose Driven Program.
23. Closed meetings between the pastor or chosen staff members without any reports made to the general membership.
24. Open hostility to members who do not openly embrace the new program, or who may have left for another church.
 
What You Can Do
If your church is in the initial stages of change (music or the first 40-day program), your church could be saved by talking with other church members, and with activist intervention by 10-20 percent of the membership. If nothing is done at this early stage, then by the time the program advances to step four, there is little that can be done except look for another church. Your church has been stolen and become a Purpose Driven entity in association with Saddleback Church of Orange County or Willow Creek of Chicago.
 
You must educate yourself, and others, so that you can mobilize the membership to effectively resist. "For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind" 2 Timothy 1:7.
 
The Purpose Driven Church books and most of the programs are published by Rupert Murdoch, who owns 175 newspapers worldwide, and a large percentage of the television and communications industry. He also owns several magazines, some of which have been classified as ****ographic.
 
Billions of dollars pour into the Purpose Driven Church movement. Dr. Warren has stated he intends to send one billion Christians into the world to bring in the "Kingdom of Heaven". The entire movement appears cultish.
 
Don’t be fooled by the Saddleback Website. You don’t catch many fish unless you have a look-alike bait!
 
Copied from printed pamphlet from:  Southwest Radio Church Ministries, Box 100, Bethany, Oklahoma 73008, 1-800-652-1144, www.swrc.com  25 for $10 — 100 for $20
 
For more-in-depth information: "The Dark Side of the Purpose Driven Church", by N.W. Hutchings — 1 copy for your gift of $15.

http://www.swrc.com/bookstore/books/noah/dark.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6T-gtUktwk



Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: adorerofblood on July 19, 2011, 01:16:14 am
Thanks BornAgain2, I don't live in America, so I don't see or understand what is happening with congress etc.

I'm finding it really interesting that our mindsets are so different.... especially where music is concerned. I don't see why it is wrong to move into a new way of doing things. I mean come on, "Dressing down to casual and informal attire.", how does that even affect a genuine walk with the Lord?

I praise God with songs from bands such as Jesus Culture, Hillsong United, Planetshakers etc.... are these bands then living in sin?


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Kilika on July 19, 2011, 05:28:37 am
Thanks BornAgain2, I don't live in America, so I don't see or understand what is happening with congress etc.

I'm finding it really interesting that our mindsets are so different.... especially where music is concerned. I don't see why it is wrong to move into a new way of doing things. I mean come on, "Dressing down to casual and informal attire.", how does that even affect a genuine walk with the Lord?

I praise God with songs from bands such as Jesus Culture, Hillsong United, Planetshakers etc.... are these bands then living in sin?

While we have liberty, and "all things are lawful", not all things are edifying or expedient. Thta's is I think where your missing the point.

It is pride that is moving you to stand your ground oin this topic. Your demanding your right to a certain thing, when you actually should humble yourself and sacrifice whatever it takes to be closer to Jesus and walking in the Spirit.

Jesus says that if you cannot forsake ALL that you have, you cannot be a disciple. That means everything, including music, whatever style it may be.

The other point your misssing is that it is the Spirit that teaches man, and opens his eyes to the truth, not man-made music or sermons. We just plant and water, but God gives the increase. So when you insist that you use a certain thing to bring people closer to God, that is an act of works, and not faith. Your trusting in the music style to convey the gospel, when it is the Holy Ghost  that gives the increase.

We are to walk in the Spirit, right? Well, I believe when scripture says to "make a joyful noise", it is talking about spiritually, and to me, that noise spiritually is the Word of God, so it's saying to "preach the Word", which is making a joyful noise.

Besides, scripture clearly says that we are to not be conformed to this world but be transformed...

"And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God." Romans 12:2 (KJB)

We are to put off the old man...

20   But ye have not so learned Christ; 
21   If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: 
22   That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 
23   And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 
24   And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Ephesians 4:20-24 (KJB)


Ultimately, we are to not put stumbling blocks in our brother's way...

"Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in [his] brother's way." Romans 14:13 (KJB)


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: adorerofblood on July 19, 2011, 05:41:42 am
While we have liberty, and "all things are lawful", not all things are edifying or expedient. Thta's is I think where your missing the point.

It is pride that is moving you to stand your ground oin this topic. Your demanding your right to a certain thing, when you actually should humble yourself and sacrifice whatever it takes to be closer to Jesus and walking in the Spirit.

Jesus says that if you cannot forsake ALL that you have, you cannot be a disciple. That means everything, including music, whatever style it may be.

The other point your misssing is that it is the Spirit that teaches man, and opens his eyes to the truth, not man-made music or sermons. We just plant and water, but God gives the increase. So when you insist that you use a certain thing to bring people closer to God, that is an act of works, and not faith. Your trusting in the music style to convey the gospel, when it is the Holy Ghost  that gives the increase.

We are to walk in the Spirit, right? Well, I believe when scripture says to "make a joyful noise", it is talking about spiritually, and to me, that noise spiritually is the Word of God, so it's saying to "preach the Word", which is making a joyful noise.

Besides, scripture clearly says that we are to not be conformed to this world but be transformed...

"And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God." Romans 12:2 (KJB)

We are to put off the old man...

20   But ye have not so learned Christ; 
21   If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: 
22   That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 
23   And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 
24   And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Ephesians 4:20-24 (KJB)


Ultimately, we are to not put stumbling blocks in our brother's way...

"Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in [his] brother's way." Romans 14:13 (KJB)

Hi Kilika, thank you for your response.

You see, that actually seems to be the point you guys are missing. Yes, all things are lawful, but not all things are edifying or expedient - How do you determine what is edifying? To me, Christian music (whatever genre) is edifying. It builds me up, inspires me, even teaches me. Like sermons.

You say it's pride that is keeping me in this view, but you speak as if I'm demanding something which is wrong. It is not wrong, and that is what I believe. Why forsake something that is for the glory of God?

Quote
The other point your missing is that it is the Spirit that teaches man, and opens his eyes to the truth, not man-made music or sermons. We just plant and water, but God gives the increase. So when you insist that you use a certain thing to bring people closer to God, that is an act of works, and not faith. Your trusting in the music style to convey the gospel, when it is the Holy Ghost  that gives the increase.

In what way does what I'm saying contradict this? I didn't say that this is the only way to bring people closer to God, but it is a way. Neither does the Holy Spirit speak directly to an unsaved person to bring him to salvation, no, it uses a sermon, a word, a song to, as you say, plant the seeds.

I'm not trying to be rebellious to God, quite the opposite, but I'm not understanding why I should change my life etc just because you say I'm being proud and not sacrificing my will. It's like me telling a pastor to sacrifice his position as a teacher of the Word, in order to align with God's will, it just doesn't make sense to me.

I will ask again, are bands such as Jesus Culture, Hillsong United, Planetshakers etc, dabbling in sin?


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Kilika on July 19, 2011, 05:58:15 am
Quote
I'm not trying to be rebellious to God, quite the opposite, but I'm not understanding why I should change my life etc just because you say I'm being proud and not sacrificing my will. It's like me telling a pastor to sacrifice his position as a teacher of the Word, in order to align with God's will, it just doesn't make sense to me.

And that reply is exactly why I said your missing the point; pride in insisting on doing things that are of the world. You should change the way you do things because we become a new creature when born-again. Did you not read those verse I posted? Your insisting on doing "old man" things.

Worship in private as the Spirit moves you, but we must consider others, particularly the weak, when in public...(this is what I mean by humbling yourself)

"[It is] good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor [any thing] whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak." Romans 14:21 (KJB)

Quote
I didn't say that this is the only way to bring people closer to God, but it is a way

Nor did I say that is what your saying!  ::) But you saying "it is a way" is exactly what I'm talking about. It's not a way! Jesus is the way, literally dwelling within a believer is the only way. What your referring to is using music to minister to people, thinking it's "a way" to bring people to Christ. That is a "works" doctrine born out of churchianity, and not faith.

By thinking it's "a way", your thinking that you can affect people, when as I pointed out, it is the Spirit that does the work, not you and your efforts through music.

And to answer your question about those bands? Haven't got a clue who they are, nor do I know what they do, so I have no commment. Dabbling in sin? I'm not able to make that judgement, and I'm not interested in their music either.

"Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another." Romans 14:19 (KJB)


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Christian40 on July 19, 2011, 06:01:26 am
What i just thought is, are there any occurances of music in the King James Bible drawing anyone to God? or to live a godly life? How does the Holy Spirit work through rock music? The Holy Spirit helps a person who reads the King James Bible.

Quote
I will ask again, are bands such as Jesus Culture, Hillsong United, Planetshakers etc, dabbling in sin?

Well one would have to do a study on each band to determine that.


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: adorerofblood on July 19, 2011, 06:11:45 am
Quote
You should change the way you do things because we become a new creature when born-again.

This doesn't make sense to me. What should I change? How far does this statement reach? Should I also change the method in which I brush my teeth? I changed from listening to Satan worship, foul mouthed, obscene music, to what I now attempt to describe. That is a new creation, a new mindset.

Quote
Nor did I say that is what your saying!  But you saying "it is a way" is exactly what I'm talking about. It's not a way! Jesus is the way, literally dwelling within a believer is the only way. What your referring to is using music to minister to people, thinking it's "a way" to bring people to Christ. That is a "works" doctrine born out of churchianity, and not faith.

By thinking it's "a way", your thinking that you can affect people, when as I pointed out, it is the Spirit that does the work, not you and your efforts through music.

I'm sorry, I think you misunderstand me. I don't mean 'its a way' in that it in itself brings people to Christ. I wholeheartedly agree that no works can bring salvation. When I say it's a way, I mean its a different way to worship God, a different way to minister to people, just as you read an inspirational message or sermon, or, hymn. Nothing I 'do' can bring my or anyone else salvation. But the Bible says that people should worship in spirit and in truth, and that is what I'm talking about.

What music do you actually listen to?

Those bands are full-on spirit-led worship bands.


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: adorerofblood on July 19, 2011, 06:17:28 am
Quote
We are to put off the old man...

20   But ye have not so learned Christ;
21   If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22   That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23   And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24   And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Ephesians 4:20-24 (KJB)

'the old man' is a very broad description. Must I give up and shun EVERYTHING that I used to do as an unsaved? Driving, cooking, reading etc, I'm sure you get my point. This verse talks about the renewing of the mind and casting off sinful practices, not just old practices in general


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Kilika on July 19, 2011, 06:29:29 am
Seeing you ask, I don't generally listen to music. While I'm not perfect, even though I am perfected in Christ, I look to be unspotted from the world. The only music I feel is edifying is music without lyrics, or put to scripture only. Anything in man's own words I don't care to hear. I want the Word of God, not some summation or version of the Word.

And that said, it is very telling that out of ALL of your posts in this thread, not once have you shared the Word. Not a single quote of scripture to edify and back up what you claim. While you have made references, it is the Word that is missing from your argument.

I can assure you, after over 20 years in the Word, I'm not misunderstanding you! I've heard this argument before, and it still holds no water or validity.

Drop the leather and metal studs and try sharing the Word of God with people. Looking and acting like those in the world is actually spiritual adultry and double-minded, and is a stumbling block for the ignorant and weak in the faith.

The truth is that there is a more edifying way than what your doing.

I have no doubt those bands are spirit-filled! The question though is what spirit?

I'll post this verse again, and maybe you can tell me how it doesn't fit your situation...(what part do you not understand when it says "not conformed to this world"?)

"And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God." Romans 12:2 (KJB)


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Kilika on July 19, 2011, 06:33:44 am
Quote
Must I give up and shun EVERYTHING that I used to do as an unsaved?

Yes, actually!

25   And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them, 
26   If any [man] come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. 
27   And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple. 
28   For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have [sufficient] to finish [it]? 
29   Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish [it], all that behold [it] begin to mock him, 
30   Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish. 
31   Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand? 
32   Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace. 
33   So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple. 
Luke 14:25-33 (KJB)


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: adorerofblood on July 19, 2011, 06:45:18 am
Quote
Seeing you ask, I don't generally listen to music. While I'm not perfect, even though I am perfected in Christ, I look to be unspotted from the world. The only music I feel is edifying is music without lyrics, or put to scripture only. Anything in man's own words I don't care to hear. I want the Word of God, not some summation or version of the Word.

Thank you. That is a very good explanation as to where you stand on music, and I commend you for that.

Quote
And that said, it is very telling that out of ALL of your posts in this thread, not once have you shared the Word. Not a single quote of scripture to edify and back up what you claim. While you have made references, it is the Word that is missing from your argument.

And on the other end, all you guys have done is give me scripture that is vaguely related to the subject! The fact is that the Bible does not speak specifically about rock music... Your argument is from a point assuming the rock music is inherently evil, no scripture deals with that, the subject is too specific. If you question my validity as a Christian, that's fine with me, I know who I am in Christ.

For example:

Quote
I'll post this verse again, and maybe you can tell me how it doesn't fit your situation...(what part do you not understand when it says "not conformed to this world"?)

"And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God." Romans 12:2 (KJB)

Okay, let's see, I'm going to try not to do anything that has ties with the world.... Where will that get me? Perhaps living alone in a shack on a mountain yes. You are using the internet. Why are you conforming to the world?

Actually you know what, I'm just going to stop here. I don't see a point to this anymore and I don't want things to get nasty.

It seems as if this is more an issue of scriptural interpretation than personal convictions.

Thanks for your time and answers. Have a good day.


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on July 19, 2011, 08:53:41 am
And on the other end, all you guys have done is give me scripture that is vaguely related to the subject! The fact is that the Bible does not speak specifically about rock music... Your argument is from a point assuming the rock music is inherently evil, no scripture deals with that, the subject is too specific. If you question my validity as a Christian, that's fine with me, I know who I am in Christ.

FWIW, the bible doesn't specifically speak about steroid use and gambling as well. Does it mean they're right?


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: adorerofblood on July 19, 2011, 08:57:51 am
FWIW, the bible doesn't specifically speak about steroid use and gambling as well. Does it mean they're right?

Neither does it prove anything


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Kilika on July 19, 2011, 03:05:13 pm
Quote
Okay, let's see, I'm going to try not to do anything that has ties with the world.... Where will that get me? Perhaps living alone in a shack on a mountain yes. You are using the internet. Why are you conforming to the world?

Excellent question! There is a difference in "conforming" and what scripture says...

29   But this I say, brethren, the time [is] short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none; 
30   And they that weep, as though they wept not; and they that rejoice, as though they rejoiced not; and they that buy, as though they possessed not; 
31   And they that use this world, as not abusing [it]: for the fashion of this world passeth away. 
1 Corinthians 7:29-31 (KJB)


You would know that if you had been working with your hands that thing which is good! Remember you agreed to my reference of the verse that says "all things are lawful", but not expedient.

What you are not seeing is that there is a "more excellent way".

"Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with [his] hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth." Ephesians 4:28 (KJB)

"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." 2 Timothy 2:15 (KJB)

Jesus says, "Feed my sheep".

Making "full proof" of your ministry, you are to be sound in the faith...

"Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine." 2 Timothy 4:2 (KJB)

So, by your comment about what we post, I surmise that maybe you might want to spend some more time in the Word of God than playing music. It's all about what is edifying to you and those around you. If you don't do the work of searching the scriptures, and thus knowing them, how then can you take care of the house of God if your not taking care of your own house?

"(For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)" 1 Timothy 3:5 (KJB)

16   All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 
17   That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. 
2 Timothy 3:16,17 (KJB)


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Believer on July 19, 2011, 09:57:08 pm
Just saying.

Quote
2 Chronicles 5
King James Version (KJV)

 1Thus all the work that Solomon made for the house of the LORD was finished: and Solomon brought in all the things that David his father had dedicated; and the silver, and the gold, and all the instruments, put he among the treasures of the house of God.

 2Then Solomon assembled the elders of Israel, and all the heads of the tribes, the chief of the fathers of the children of Israel, unto Jerusalem, to bring up the ark of the covenant of the LORD out of the city of David, which is Zion.

 3Wherefore all the men of Israel assembled themselves unto the king in the feast which was in the seventh month.

 4And all the elders of Israel came; and the Levites took up the ark.

 5And they brought up the ark, and the tabernacle of the congregation, and all the holy vessels that were in the tabernacle, these did the priests and the Levites bring up.

 6Also king Solomon, and all the congregation of Israel that were assembled unto him before the ark, sacrificed sheep and oxen, which could not be told nor numbered for multitude.

 7And the priests brought in the ark of the covenant of the LORD unto his place, to the oracle of the house, into the most holy place, even under the wings of the cherubims:

 8For the cherubims spread forth their wings over the place of the ark, and the cherubims covered the ark and the staves thereof above.

 9And they drew out the staves of the ark, that the ends of the staves were seen from the ark before the oracle; but they were not seen without. And there it is unto this day.

 10There was nothing in the ark save the two tables which Moses put therein at Horeb, when the LORD made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of Egypt.

 11And it came to pass, when the priests were come out of the holy place: (for all the priests that were present were sanctified, and did not then wait by course:

 12Also the Levites which were the singers, all of them of Asaph, of Heman, of Jeduthun, with their sons and their brethren, being arrayed in white linen, having cymbals and psalteries and harps, stood at the east end of the altar, and with them an hundred and twenty priests sounding with trumpets:)

 13It came even to pass, as the trumpeters and singers were as one, to make one sound to be heard in praising and thanking the LORD; and when they lifted up their voice with the trumpets and cymbals and instruments of musick, and praised the LORD, saying, For he is good; for his mercy endureth for ever: that then the house was filled with a cloud, even the house of the LORD;

 14So that the priests could not stand to minister by reason of the cloud: for the glory of the LORD had filled the house of God.


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: adorerofblood on July 20, 2011, 12:31:53 am
Kilika,

I understand your reference to 1 Corinthians 7:29-31, but what I don't understand is your application thereof, i.e. choosing what is regarded as 'of this world' and what is not.

"Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks" John 4:23 (NIV)

The Bible tells me that what God is looking for is a true worshiper - He looks at the heart, not at the appearance. If a person's heart is right - what does it matter how the worship is conducted? Obviously there are extremes, and other scripture to take into account, which cancel certain things we might want to do out. For example, even though your heart may be right, that won't mean it's ok to worship God by going out drinking and gambling.

Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship. 2 Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will Romans 12:1-2 (NIV)

The Bible also tells me that I need to offer my body (my whole life) as a sacrifice to God - as an act of worship. I have sacrificed my sinful nature when comes to music. My music absolutely does not conform to the pattern of this world. Wordly music persists in harping on about the negative things in life, it indulges things considered sinful, it routinely makes a mockery of God, and it often worships other 'gods' directly and unashamedly. When I became a Christian, I struggled at first to let go of this music, but I knew it was wrong. So I made a decision to cut out all ungodly (secular) music from my life. It was a daunting decision, because music is a big part of my life, but I did it anyway, not even knowing that there were so many spirit-filled bands out there. Over time, I 'discovered' a wealth of these bands. Bands that are shunned, disrespected, and looked down on by the world, because of their faith. That sounds to me like a bunch of people not conforming to this world.

Quote
So, by your comment about what we post, I surmise that maybe you might want to spend some more time in the Word of God than playing music. It's all about what is edifying to you and those around you. If you don't do the work of searching the scriptures, and thus knowing them, how then can you take care of the house of God if your not taking care of your own house?

I absolutely agree with you that I should spend more time in the Word than playing music. In fact, I need to spend more time in the Word, period.  :) The thing is, this is edifying to me and those around me. Remember, I'm not coming from the view that Christian metal music has to be shoved in everyone's face, everyone needs to approve of it, and that we should start using it in church. I'm merely opposed to the original postings that "there is no such thing as a Christian metal band", "This kind of stuff is of Satan", and "they sound demonic".

Worship isn't just about singing songs to God. It's about a lifestyle of sacrifice and obedience (Romans 12:1-2 again)

1 Sing joyfully to the LORD, you righteous;
   it is fitting for the upright to praise him.
2 Praise the LORD with the harp;
   make music to him on the ten-stringed lyre.
3 Sing to him a new song;
   play skillfully, and shout for joy
Psalm 33:1-3 (NIV)

To me, and many others, this music is joyful! :D I don't believe that this scripture is commanding us to restrict our songs to God to only harps and ten-stringed lyre's. I love writing new songs. I love playing skillfully (or trying ;D), and I love shouting for joy.

Believer,

The verses you highlighted does not tell me that I should restrict my music/instruments to just those, it merely mentions them. Although, that was probably a requirement for the temple itself. As were Levites as the singers (if I'm not mistaken).

At the end of the day, from reading most of the scripture quoted in this discussion, this seems to come down to one question:
By playing and listening to rock music (or any other genre for that matter), are Christians conforming to the world?

Maybe. That depends on your heart.


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Kilika on July 20, 2011, 04:34:18 am
Quote
I understand your reference to 1 Corinthians 7:29-31, but what I don't understand is your application thereof, i.e. choosing what is regarded as 'of this world' and what is not.

Nothing personal, but I'm not convinced you do understand that verse. The reason I posted it was in reply to your question about me using the internet, which obviously is "of the world". But then so are automobiles. The point is that we do use various things of the world, but that doesn't mean we worship it or we are of the world. It's about what is edifying and expedient while we are here.

God knows the heart of man, so salvation is not what we judge, but the fruit of the believer, THAT is what we make a righteous judgement on.

Consider that people can see a "metal" band, without hearing any lyrics, and they will immediately equate that band with the heavy metal scene and all it's devil-worshipping garbage. How edifying is that?

Even Satan knows how man looks on the outward appearence, and takes advantage of it by getting people to disply certain fruits that are not edifying. This is why they have the phrase in the world "Image is everything". They know what a person projects is the impression people will get of a person, based on their "fruit" that people observe.

I don't know of anybody that looks at a heavy metal band and thinks Jesus!

That said, I now see where there is a big problem; your using the NIV book! No wonder your messed up in your understandings! That's a perfect example why we should be quoting the bible to back our understandings, because it shows where we get the idea of what we believe. It's our evidence and defense. BUT, that defense must be sound biblically, and the NIV is FAR from sound. In fact, the NIV is downright evil.

Did you know that it is published by Rupert Murdoch? Did you also know that it also trys to hide the sin of homosexuality by changing verses and outright eliminating some verses? You'd be well-advised to reconsider that book!

There is a thread on which bible to use, so I won't get into that discussion, but will say till you start using a real bible, you're going to have problems with sound doctrine. And from this discussion, it's obvious that it has already clouded your understanding of what sound doctrine is.

Quote
I'm merely opposed to the original postings that "there is no such thing as a Christian metal band", "This kind of stuff is of Satan", and "they sound demonic".

Well, quite frankly, there really is NO SUCH THING as Christian metal, period. What is being done is self-professed Christians are trying to mold a worldly satanic thing into something that it is not.

Whether you will admit it or not, metal, and some other forms of music, have no relation to Christianity at all, as they are pagan in origin, and metal in particular was born out of the pagan/devil worship scene.

What people in the end are doing is trying to keep the ways of the "old man" because they don't want to let go of the world they knew before they became born-again. Old habits die hard! It's no different than "churches" that have Halloween parties. Excuse me? How did a pagan observance suddenly become Christian? No matter what color you paint it, it's still observance of a pagan practice. There is no excuse; Christians are not to do what the world does. When we become born-again, we do things differently, and stop doing the things we did when we were lost in the world.

For example, a Christian can dress up in a red devil suit with pitchfork, no big deal. Of itself it means nothing. It doesn't affect their salvation in the least and is not an indication of their heart, but is it edifying, or will it cause young believers to misunderstand? Yep, it sure does.

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig!

Some Christians forget that we become "new creatures". "All things are become new".


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: adorerofblood on July 20, 2011, 04:45:06 am
Thanks Kilika. I made my views clear in my last post so I have no more to say. Regarding the NIV, I knew you would have a problem with that. I'll check out the thread - do you have the link please?


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: metaldrew on November 10, 2011, 06:07:12 pm
Wow, I know this is an old thread, however I found it through google actually while looking up Texas in July. I can't believe there are so many ignorant people still out there. The fact that you think there are no good Christian Metal bands, and the fact that you think NIV is evil shows how little you know. No wonder so many people don't want to be a believer after seeing people who are so stick in their old ways that they cant get out...


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on November 10, 2011, 06:24:16 pm
Wow, I know this is an old thread, however I found it through google actually while looking up Texas in July. I can't believe there are so many ignorant people still out there. The fact that you think there are no good Christian Metal bands, and the fact that you think NIV is evil shows how little you know. No wonder so many people don't want to be a believer after seeing people who are so stick in their old ways that they cant get out...

Yes, the NIV came from Zonderfan, which is owned by Rupert Murdoch. Murdoch's Zonderfan and his other media empires have published alot of filth like p0rn and g@y $ex. Murdoch also has funded alot of our wolves like Rick Warren and Brian McLaren(ie-Warren's books and other products are published by Zonderfan, and he's also a CFR member), whose Emergent Church has hijacked 1000s of churches across the world with New Age leaven.

As for Christian Metal bands - Christian Rock is largely funded by the Illuminati. Former insiders like John Todd have exposed this. Christian Rock groups and icons have also ties to the secular rock music world(ie-a few are connected with Marilyn Manson).

A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump...


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Mark on November 11, 2011, 04:13:01 am
yep (http://endtimescurrentevents.freeforums.org/images/smilies/plus1.gif)



Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: metaldrew on November 11, 2011, 11:48:25 am

Ok, first off, why does one person connected to the NIV, who didn't write it, and really has no part of the NIV make it wrong?? That makes no sense, and I like Rick Warren, and the Emergent church, both of which are definitely not New Age, but that's a whole different topic of conversation...

Can you please prove this to me about the Illuminati?? I need a link to an article or something. However, in all actuality it does not matter, the music itself does not make it wrong, are you to tell me that ya'll actually believe that music can make a song "evil"??


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Mark on November 11, 2011, 12:00:15 pm
Here are some links that will answer all your questions.

SECULAR MUSIC UNMASKED
http://endtimesandcurrentevents.freesmfhosting.com/index.php/topic,2975.0.html

End Time Current Events: Hidden Luciferians series
http://endtimesandcurrentevents.freesmfhosting.com/index.php/topic,2181.0.html

You can search Rick Warren, just too much information on that Wolf.

How much info do you need on the NIV?


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on November 11, 2011, 12:07:01 pm
Ok, first off, why does one person connected to the NIV, who didn't write it, and really has no part of the NIV make it wrong?? That makes no sense

2Jn 1:10  If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
2Jn 1:11  For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds
.

FYI, one of the translation team members is an open lesbian.

NIV - Homosexual on Translation Committee!
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Bible/niv_sodomite_on_committee.htm

NIV Exposed!
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Bible/niv_exposed.htm

and I like Rick Warren, and the Emergent church, both of which are definitely not New Age, but that's a whole different topic of conversation

FYI, Warren and other Emergent Church leaders like Brian McLaren and Bill Hybels have denied Jesus Christ being the only way, the true Son of God.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oen31gIeCZk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6T-gtUktwk&feature=related

Warren is also a proven liar.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGzT1OrbHAI

Warren Smith used to be part of the New Age movement, FYI, and exposes Purpose Driven Life-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOMFHej1KVk

Quote
Can you please prove this to me about the Illuminati?? I need a link to an article or something. However, in all actuality it does not matter, the music itself does not make it wrong, are you to tell me that ya'll actually believe that music can make a song "evil"??

FYI, John Todd was a former insider - after he(and converted), he exposed the Illuminati's plans. One of their agendas was to get rock music infiltrated into our culture, and eventually into our churches. This should get you started...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRc6FRBxpUY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gX4uZGHa5ww



Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on November 11, 2011, 12:12:08 pm
Look, the reason we are giving you all this info is b/c we love you people so much, that we want to tell you the truth.

Personally, it was over 2 years ago when someone on another message forum showed me the heresies in the NIV(one of them being Isaiah 14:12 that the KJV rightly calls out Lucifer as Satan, but in the NIV they replace Lucifer with the morning star - if you go to Rev 22:18, the morning star is identified with JESUS CHRIST). I was absolutely floored and horrified when I saw this, and almost immediately switched to the KJV.

Now cross-check your NIV to see how different it is from the KJV here-
Isa 14:12  How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

For now, both the links Dok and I gave you should give you a good start.


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: metaldrew on November 11, 2011, 01:16:46 pm
Here are some links that will answer all your questions.

SECULAR MUSIC UNMASKED
http://endtimesandcurrentevents.freesmfhosting.com/index.php/topic,2975.0.html

End Time Current Events: Hidden Luciferians series
http://endtimesandcurrentevents.freesmfhosting.com/index.php/topic,2181.0.html

You can search Rick Warren, just too much information on that Wolf.

How much info do you need on the NIV?

OH yes, the old contendingforturth, and Hell's Bell's. Hell's Bell's is cheesy, outdated, and filled with biased opinions. It almost entirely built around the lyrics of the songs which obviously is not the question here. So I ask again what makes the music itself wrong??

2Jn 1:10  If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
2Jn 1:11  For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds
.

FYI, one of the translation team members is an open lesbian.

NIV - Homosexual on Translation Committee!
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Bible/niv_sodomite_on_committee.htm

NIV Exposed!
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Bible/niv_exposed.htm

I would again respond by saying why does that make the translation less accurate?? The people don't matter it's the words, and if you look at it that way then you would realize that if anything the NIV is MORE accurate than the KJV. For example :

According to Dr Dale Robbins (Why So Many Bible Translations?):

“The KJV New Testament (and all editions since Tyndale) was compiled primarily from the Byzantine family of manuscripts (AD 500 – 1000) frequently referred to as the Textus Receptus. But many of the newer translations were produced using a composite of later discoveries of other manuscripts and fragments dating from an earlier period. Among such are The ‘Alexandrian Family’ manuscripts (AD 200 – 400) which include the three oldest The Codex Alexandrius, the Codex Vaticanus and the Codex Sinaiticus, all which were major contributors to most Bible versions after the King James version.”
Which manuscripts (usually abbreviated to MSS) are the ‘right’ ones? Probably none of them because none are original. However, the Textus Receptus MSS does have some problems from a translator’s point of view according to Bible linguist Charles V Taylor (who wrote “Bibles With Holes?”, “The Oldest Science Book In The World”, “Did God Really?”, “The Creator Is Coming”, “Churches Aglow Down The Ages”, et al plus numerous articles). Dr Taylor points out that when dealing with Holy works (of any faith), copyists tend to add explanation rather than remove words. This is because the words are considered Holy and therefore must never be removed (cf Rev 22:19), though adding words of explanation was often considered acceptable.
“Words, phrases and concepts which meant one thing to a 17th Century reader often mean something totally different to a 20th Century reader.”
If you check most of the verses ‘missing’ from the NIV and other modern Bibles you will find, in nearly every case, they were an explanation of the previous verse – which makes those verses more likely to have been added by a copyist rather than deleted by a translator. This makes the ‘Alexandrian Family’ of manuscripts more likely to be closer to the original than the Textus Receptus (Byzantine Family) manuscripts, which is why they have been chosen by the later translators. So when someone tells me that the KJV has 790,704 words and the NIV has “only” 726,606 words then I feel even more confident in my choice of Bible translation.
But simply looking at the total number of words is meaningless because the language between the KJV and the NIV are so different – one is 17th Century English and the other is 20th Century English. Words, phrases and concepts which meant one thing to a 17th Century reader often mean something totally different to a 20th Century reader. What does “suffer little children to come unto me” mean to you? Do you want the children to only come to Jesus if they are in pain or suffering? Or maybe they come to Jesus so they will suffer? I don’t think so. The KJV says in Luke 18:16...

Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not for of such is the kingdom of God.
While the NIV says:
Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.
Which renders the verse ‘best’? At least the NIV makes sense to a modern reader!

and also:


But there are even more potential problems when an English translation of ancient Greek text has to be also rendered into a rhyming style, as was the KJV. This adds another barrier to accurate translation because the translator must translate into prose. What liberties must be taken with the original for this to be accomplished?

“I wonder if the Christians who used the Geneva Bible of 1560 complained loudly about the “heretical new KJV Bible” when it was first introduced?”
The problems with translations are compounded because, if the publisher of a modern translation wants his version to be accepted by people who have been reading an older version, he has to make it compatible with that version. What translation errors have there been since Tyndale’s Bible, faithfully reproduced so that existing readers are not alienated by an apparent change in doctrine. While the NIV had the KJV to work from, so the KJV had previous versions which it had to be compatible with. Going back to Dr Robbins:
“After Tyndale, several other famous Bibles were produced in the 16th century. The Cloverdale Bible in 1535, Matthew’s Bible in 1537, The Great Bible in 1539, The Geneva Bible in 1560 (the first to use chapters, verses, and the italicization of added words), and the Bishops Bible in 1568.”
In fact, some 80% of the KJV was copied from the Geneva Bible. It is clear, then, that the KJV really was ‘just another English translation’, excellent when it was written (specially considering the limited number of manuscripts available at that time) but still ‘just a translation’ – just like the NIV and other modern Bibles... I wonder if the Christians who used the Geneva Bible of 1560 complained loudly about the “heretical new KJV Bible” when it was first introduced?

and finally the part I think is most important:

So which version is right? As Christians, let us not get into dispute over this because I really don’t believe it is important. What is important are the core teachings in the Word, and these do not change between any of the major versions of the Bible (not counting the New World Translation, a Jehovah Witness version which is deliberately flawed to follow the teachings of that cult).

“With the recent publication of several different books villifying modern translations, asserting that they were borne out of conspiratorial motives, a word should be mentioned about this concocted theory.” (Daniel B. Wallace)
Finally, if you think that the NIV and other modern versions are somehow the work of Satan (or non-Christian humanists) then I urge you to read the Addendum to the excellent article Why I Do Not Think the King James Bible Is the Best Translation Available Today by Daniel B. Wallace, Ph.D (Professor of New Testament Studies, Dallas Theological Seminary).
This says (paragraph breaks added and emphasis mine):

“One further point is necessary. With the recent publication of several different books villifying modern translations, asserting that they were borne out of conspiratorial motives, a word should be mentioned about this concocted theory.
First, many of these books are written by people who have little or no knowledge of Greek or Hebrew, and are, further, a great distortion of the facts. I have read books on textual criticism for more than a quarter of a century, but never have I seen such illogic, out-of-context quotations, and downright deceptions about the situation as in these recent books.

Second, although it is often asserted that heretics produced some of the New Testament MSS we now have in our possession, there is only one group of MSS known to be produced by heretics: certain Byzantine MSS of the book of Revelation. This is significant because the Byzantine text stands behind the KJV! These MSS formed part of a mystery cult textbook used by various early cults. But KJV advocates constantly make the charge that the earliest MSS (the Alexandrian MSS) were produced by heretics. The sole basis they have for this charge is that certain readings in these MSS are disagreeable to them!

Third, when one examines the variations between the Greek text behind the KJV (the Textus Receptus) and the Greek text behind modern translations, it is discovered that the vast majority of variations are so trivial as to not even be translatable (the most common is the moveable nu, which is akin to the difference between ‘who’ and ‘whom’!).

Fourth, when one compares the number of variations that are found in the various MSS with the actual variations between the Textus Receptus and the best Greek witnesses, it is found that these two are remarkably similar. There are over 400,000 textual variants among NT MSS. But the differences between the Textus Receptus and texts based on the best Greek witnesses number about 5000 – and most of these are untranslatable differences! In other words, over 98% of the time, the Textus Receptus and the standard critical editions agree.

Those who villify the modern translations and the Greek texts behind them have evidently never really investigated the data. Their appeals are based largely on emotion, not evidence. As such, they do an injustice to historic Christianity as well as to the men who stood behind the King James Bible. These scholars, who admitted that their work was provisional and not final (as can be seen by their preface and by their more than 8000 marginal notes indicating alternate renderings), would wholeheartedly welcome the great finds in MSS that have occurred in the past one hundred and fifty years.”

The KJV, like other translations, is a superb document. However, it is not the only version and it is not necessarily the ‘best’ version. If it suits you, great, but it might not suit other people. If the doctrine stated in the more modern translations, including the NIV, is virtually identical to the doctrine in the KJV then what is the problem?
As Christians we should not get involved in petty disputes which do not honor the Father and do, in fact, honor Satan. Let us remember who the Enemy is, and it isn’t fellow Christians who might, or might not, have identical doctrine to you. God honors our hearts, not our doctrines!

May the peace of God, which passes all understanding, dwell in you and in your house forever.

So I truly believe that the NIV is a valid and worthy translation of the bible.



As for your links on Warren, well the first problem is that every single one of these videos has been edited to make it seem like he is saying something that he really isn't. Second, in the inauguration speech I read an article that said he was asked to include that and even though he was hesitant hew finally agreed, it wasn't something he wanted to do. And third, just like you think Rick Warren isn't trustworthy, I can't stand Warren Smith and his points have no validity with me...

As far as the John Todd stuff goes, the fact is he is spouting off stuff that no one can verify, it has a very conspiracy-theory feel to me. Do you really believe that ever record now goes through a process where someone takes it to a room and has not 1 but 13 witches pray and cast demons into it?? And also I don't believe anything Todd says since he believes that a believer can cast a spell on themselves, that is just ridiculous...

I appreciate what you are trying to do, however I think you are not doing it out of love a6t all, it comes across very judgmental and a I am right you are wrong mindset. As far as the verse you threw up there here is my response:

Lucifer is translated from the Hebrew word heh-lel which means the shining one or at that time king of Babylon Isa 14:13 the kings of Babylon reflected the attitude of Satan who wanted to be like god and wanted to be higher then god.

and

The term "morning star" comes from the idea that it is a star that is SO bright that it can still be seen in the morning (even with the sun's light coming out).

So that term could refer to anyone.

Job 38: 7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

In this verse it uses starS (plural) which shows it doesn't have to be just 1 being that is capable of that.




Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Mark on November 11, 2011, 01:27:17 pm
OH yes, the old contendingforturth, and Hell's Bell's. Hell's Bell's is cheesy, outdated, and filled with biased opinions. It almost entirely built around the lyrics of the songs which obviously is not the question here. So I ask again what makes the music itself wrong??


Nothing wrong with the Hells Bells series. Why would you mock it?

Quote
So I ask again what makes the music itself wrong??

Psalm 100 1 Make a joyful noise unto the LORD, all ye lands.

Where is the joyful noise in that kind of music? Also that kind of music was started as rebellion music. Are you rebelling agaisnt God? Its not real hard here, are you giving up the World for Jesus or are you staying in the world?


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on November 11, 2011, 01:31:41 pm
Also, Christian Rock and other Christian metal bands were forbidden in churches 50 years ago - WHY all of a sudden is it being embraced? If it were really any good, why didn't our early church fathers accept it?

God is the same yesterday, today, and forever...Hold fast to what thou hast learned...


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: metaldrew on November 11, 2011, 01:45:04 pm
Nothing wrong with the Hells Bells series. Why would you mock it?

Psalm 100 1 Make a joyful noise unto the LORD, all ye lands.

Where is the joyful noise in that kind of music? Also that kind of music was started as rebellion music. Are you rebelling agaisnt God? Its not real hard here, are you giving up the World for Jesus or are you staying in the world?


Well I mock it because again it has personal biases, and anyone under 40 finds it extremely cheesy. I love it when people use that verse, so YOU can tell ME what is a joyful noise?? No you can't!!! I do find it joyful to hear For today yelling "let my name be feared at the gates of hell" I do find it joyful to hear Becoming the Archetype screaming a rendition of "How Great Thou Art", I find that very joyful and you can't tell me that I don't, so that completely throws that argument out.

And again, just because something started as a rebellion, that has nothing to do with the music itself, God can bring great stuff out of bad beginnings. I know you know Romans 8:28. And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose...

It is being embraced because people have finally realized that alot of people are not going to be reached by hymns and gospels. I tink the very CHRISTIAN METAL band Impending doom says it best...


To the following Christians listen closely.
We bring our light to a new realm, a realm you dare not enter,
Passing judgment behind stone walls, behind your absence of understanding.
We will crush your walls that dictate where our ministry goes,
Don't you ever tell me I'm using God as a gimmick.
I'm not a heretic, I'm not a hypocrite;
Those insults make me sick from the ones I have fellowship with.
We aren't doing this for our own, but for one name holy and alone.
These venues are our church,
We are the gospel in the darkness, and this is our exaltation.
We are the gospel in the darkness; we bring our light to a new realm,
A realm you dare not enter, passing judgment behind stone walls,
Behind your absence of understanding.
Are you listening!!!
We'll crush the walls that dictate where our ministry goes,
This is our church, this is our worship



Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Mark on November 11, 2011, 02:19:20 pm
Quote
Well I mock it because again it has personal biases, and anyone under 40 finds it extremely cheesy.

you speak for everyone under 40? So your mocking somethign that goes accordingly with Gods word. oK.

Quote
I love it when people use that verse, so YOU can tell ME what is a joyful noise?? No you can't!!!

Sure i can, a joyful noise isnt the sound of cats in a bag being beaten. And well thats what you ahve with the kind of music.

Quote
that has nothing to do with the music itself,

It has everything to do with the music itself. If youd have watched the videos and actual;ly listened instead of moking them you would have realised that. That kind of music isnt new. It didnt start in the 60's and 70's. It goes all the way back to Babylon.

Michale W Smith comes accross very Christian, yet once you dig down into his stuff it is filled with the occult. So you can sit and mock and proclaim your death meatal christian music, just look at that, death meatal christian music.  ::)

You can wrap up a pig in a dress and put lip stick on it, and well its still a pig. Same goes with this. You are trying to conform Jesus to your thinking, and NOT trying to make yourself conform to Jesus. Something to think about.


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: metaldrew on November 11, 2011, 02:36:48 pm
No I cant speak for everyone under 40, but anyone i know that has seen that video doesn't find it to be of any help, and I am not mocking God's word, how dare you accuse me of that.


No you can't. It definitely doesn't sound like that, and frankly I don't give a crap what you have to say, you are obviously just stuck in your ways, and that will never change, you are now just stating your OPINION, which just just that, and OPINION that doesn't mean anything to anyone except yourself wrapped up in your own judgmental little world, I feel sorry for people like you...

Again in has nothing to do with the music, Jesus never condemned a certain type of music, He encouraged creativity, and praising Him in your own way. I did watch them, I knew about them way before this thread and it has no fact about why the music itself is bad, just as the Todd videos have no proof, just someone spouting off what they believe. That stuff about Micheal W. Smith is complete bull, I can't believe that you would listen to just whoever comes along and starts saying random degrading things about Christian artists who have done nothing but try to spread the word.

Yeah look at that, death metal Christian music, what a nice ring it has to it right??

Well this has nothing to do with a pig being wrapped up, it has to do with solid christian believers playing music to reach people that YOU would just ignore, its crazy, YOU are trying to keep people from being saved, where as people in these bands and myself are reaching out to everyone... Huh sound familiar?? Oh yeah, that's what Jesus did, reached out and loved everyone, It seems like I am conforming to Jesus, and you are making Him conform to you...


YOU are the one pushing your beliefs down people's throat. I don't care if you want to listen to my music, just don't tell me that it's wrong, maybe you should look at Romans 14, esp. the last few verse... Something to think about...


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Mark on November 11, 2011, 02:40:19 pm


No you can't. It definitely doesn't sound like that, and frankly I don't give a crap what you have to say, you are obviously just stuck in your ways, and that will never change, you are now just stating your OPINION, which just just that, and OPINION that doesn't mean anything to anyone except yourself wrapped up in your own judgmental little world, I feel sorry for people like you...


and there we go. Only your opinion matters. and im the one forcing my beliefs down peoples throats. yep, look how angry you are? where do you think that comes from?


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Kilika on November 11, 2011, 02:57:36 pm
Seeing that this is a Christian website, the general attittude around here tends to be rather calm and without posts that are filled with accusations.

metaldrew, the basic stereotype of metal is what? Being angry about something, raging. That's the origins of that style music. It's about rebellion and resisting the establishement. Christianity can relate to that kind of thing stragnely enough, but the anger must be focused, as it says to be "angry and sin not, let not the sun go down upon your wrath".

But I ask you, if we are to give the reasons of the hope in us to everyone that asks of us, then how can we do that with meekness and fear when we are raging? What is humble about that whole scene? Nothing. It's all about making a scene, which is just the opposite of what Jesus wants us to do.

Quote
and frankly I don't give a crap what you have to say

That is a typical metalhead raging response. Bad attitude is what it is, and I personally don't like seeing it hear in this type forum. Mind your manners here, God willing.

Remember that "grievous words stir up anger..."

Nobody is pushing anything on you. In, fact you came to this forum of your own accord. You chose to read and post here.

I ask you plainly, how is a person saved?


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: metaldrew on November 11, 2011, 03:29:21 pm
Wow, you people are so two faced...  Dok was very rude and accusing me of mocking God's word, and that's why I got angry, but I don't see anyone getting mad about that, but I said the word crap, oh no let me "mind my manners" how bout ya'll start treating people fairly??

You ARE forcing it down my throat, and my anger has nothing to do with my music, and everything to do with a so called fellow believer telling me I am mocking the word. And anger is ok, ever heard of righteous anger?? look it up

Metal has nothing to do with being angry I have already quoted several positive and uplifting lyrics, including a rendition of How great Thou art, but ya'll seem to ignore that, convenient... You don't know anything about metal, and i am willing to bet you havent listened to it at all or if so a few songs here and there to make fun of and to see how "demonic" it is. Listen to Underoath, As I lay Dying, For Today, the band that was mentioned Texas In July and tell me those lyrics arent positive, and they are certainty not negative and "raging".

It has nothing to do with making a scene, it has a way of reaching kids that again, people like you are too stubborn and frankly don't love people enough to reach out to...

My response for the last time was out of anger towards a false accusation from a fellow "brother" nothing more, I do have manners and have not acted in any way out of that, and do not need you to tell me so.

I chose to read and post here so that someone reading this wouldn't have a lot of false information about a music genre that is saving people'es lives...


And I tell you plainly:

If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. Romans 10:9-10


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Mark on November 11, 2011, 03:48:42 pm
What is anyone forcing down your throat? Why are you so angry?

Quote
and accusing me of mocking God's word

Lets look at what i said.

Quote
So your mocking something that goes accordingly with Gods word

I never said you mocked Gods Word.


Quote
Metal has nothing to do with being angry

You need to really watch that first set of videos. the one that says 1 of 22. We have nothing but love for you here, and you do not have to agree with what i say. Your more than welcome to do what you want.


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: B4Real on November 11, 2011, 04:04:30 pm
Dok can you please ban metaldrew- he is of a false spirit, anyone that calls metal or any kind of christian rock good is calling bitter sweet.


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: B4Real on November 11, 2011, 04:06:30 pm
like the 11.11.11call to pray in Detroit. False. Antichrist. Paul said watch out for those preaching other Jesus'. Music is demonic influence. God is thrice holy.


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: metaldrew on November 11, 2011, 04:12:15 pm
If you want to ban me, go ahead it won't affect me... But I hope B4real can learn to be accepting of people and just because someone has a different view than you call a believer a "false spirit"... You need a lot of prayer


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Kilika on November 12, 2011, 03:05:03 am
For what it's worth, I use to listen to hard rock and some metal, many years ago, then I grew up and put away childish things. While commercial, I use to like Metallica, System of a Down was okay, but classic rock was my preference. Anything from the Scorpions to Black Sabbath, Van Halen, Ted Nugent, KISS, and even some Limp Bizqit. Never got into death metal or industrial though. My first concert I ever went to was the Edgar Winter band. Look them up. They weren't bubblegum top 40.

The point is your accusations are unfounded. You really need to back up and chill. This isn't a bunch of kids here. All of us are grown adults, but your posts betray you as a young person. That attitude is showing.

Quote
Metal has nothing to do with being angry I have already quoted several positive and uplifting lyrics

Really? Then you don't know metal! Your a wannabe headbanger. Positive and uplifting is the added Christian part. Metal itself is not positive or uplifting, unless your into the whole headbanger attitude.

Quote
You ARE forcing it down my throat

You know what? I can't count how many unbelievers Ihave heard say that time and again. if your a believer, you would be well served to stop saying that phrase, as it makes you look like an unbeliever.

As I said, you were not forced to come here,

Nor were you forced to even read anything here.

Nor were you forced to post anything here.

Now get over it, or maybe it might be better that you just move along to other places, at least till you learn how to talk to people.

While your at it, read 1 Cornthinans 13.


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Christian40 on November 12, 2011, 03:27:09 am
Hi metaldrew,

i just want to say you may have this desire to reach the lost people out there which is right and commendable but if you go and act like the world and just say you win them over to being Christians in your view then what are you going to do once these people are saved are you still going to do metal music? and what if these converts that you have reject metal because they say it is demonic, would you listen to them?


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Mark on November 12, 2011, 06:29:41 am

As I said, you were not forced to come here,

Nor were you forced to even read anything here.

Nor were you forced to post anything here.


Then again, maybe he was led here in order to learn some truth about the music industry.


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: metaldrew on November 12, 2011, 10:22:45 am
First off, I don't listen to "bubblegum top 40" never have never will. I listen to real metal bands, not hard rock bands which is mostly what you listed. I know who Edgar Winter is, not my style...

Why do people always insist that metal is childish and you will grow out of it?? That is a very broad and sweeping statement which is entirely unfounded. And if I am showing my age, then you are definitely showing yours. You have a biased self-righteous attitude that most old, Southern or Independent Baptist do, and I can just about guarantee you that not only are you against metal, but anyone with long hair, baggy clothes, tattoos, who drinks or smokes, and reads anything besides the KJV am I right??

Dude, trust me I am not a wannabe, I know that "most" metal is about being angry, however there is a lot of Christian metal that is not angry, the music is still upbeat and loud and crazy, but it doesn't have to be angry, it can just be loud and crazy, which is ok I promise... And I have been to well over 40 metal concerts, real metal concerts, I think that maybe YOU don't know what metal is since you posted system of a down, limp bizkit and kiss... None of which are metal, in fact no one you said really is besides Black Sabbath, and Metallica...

How can a phrase make you look like an unbeliever?? That makes no sense. If you are a believer then YOU would be well served to stop telling others how to live

Now why don't you get off your high horse, stop being so judgmental, and you learn how to talk to people of all ages with respect...


P.S I have 1 Corinthians 13 tattooed on my arm






To Christian40... I am not acting like the world. And yes I will definitely still listen to metal music, do you listen to music just to reach people?? Of course not, why would I stop?? And if they reject metal music they will reject the secular kind, and even if they reject all kinds, then that's fine, that's their decision, I am not trying to force anyone to listen to it, just to realize it's not demonic...


And to dok... I have yet to learn any "truth" about the music industry, just a lot of opinions and conspiracies...


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Mark on November 12, 2011, 10:40:41 am

And to dok... I have yet to learn any "truth" about the music industry, just a lot of opinions and conspiracies...

If you were to watch those videos you would. Its not a conspiracy. Its a fact.

Quote
P.S I have 1 Corinthians 13 tattooed on my arm

and you promote that like its something to be proud of? to show off and ecourage others to do the same? do you treat it like a badge of honor?


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Mark on November 12, 2011, 10:44:32 am
(http://legendsarising.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/texas-in-july-cover-art.png)

yep, nothing wrong with this band, nothing demonic about them. There is zero occultic symbolism here.  ::)



Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Mark on November 12, 2011, 10:58:53 am
Quote
Texas In July - 1000 Lies Lyrics

One heart beating,

to the footsteps stomping on the ground,

this is where I belong.

Finally,

I've become the person I've wanted to be,

it's taken me a long time.

But,

this is how it goes,

and I'm learning quickly,

to surround myself with those,

who value me,

and are proud of me.

This is what fate has led me to,

standing on my in front of all of you,

precious, memories,

I remember them like it was yesterday.

Rise, and look at the man in the mirror,

he is the one that knows you'll follow through.

This is what I've become,

all on my own,

I knew that I could do it all along,

1000 lies, 1000 times,

you told me that I would never make it.

These are the voices from your heart,

nothing is less then what you make it,

Follow them, follow them,

these are the voices from your heart.



Well now, just a random song of theirs i picked. Lets look here. Where is Jesus? not here but what is? all on my own, I knew that I could do it all along, wow!! A little prideful there. What does Jesus tell us to do?

Pro 3:5   Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. 
Pro 3:6   In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. 


hmmm, lets look at just what the Bible says about the Human heart, as the song implies to listen to the "voices" from the heart?

Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man [was] great in the earth, and [that] every imagination of the thoughts of his heart [was] only evil continually. 

Jer 17:9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it? 

Mat 15:19   For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, 


I think we get the point here. There is even more here with the "man in the mirror" but whats the point. This was just 1 random song i picked. And lets not forget this band raised money for a pro-abortion site. A place that likes to murder babies. come on man...

Please watch this series,
SECULAR MUSIC UNMASKED
http://endtimesandcurrentevents.freesmfhosting.com/index.php/topic,2975.0.html

Its in 22 small parts and well worth the time. You are being deceived and lied to, and the Lord will allow it because you are choosing it.


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: metaldrew on November 12, 2011, 11:34:23 am
I will say again, i have watched it, I knew about it before you showed me, and I disagree, it is not true and it is a lot of conservatives saying what they believe... And it's not facts at all


And I am proud of my tattoos, there is nothing wrong with them, and I wear my ink proudly for Jesus...

Your right, nothing wrong or demonic about the band at all, And the artwork is explained more (through the other panels in the booklet) that the scene kid on the front is struggling with life and such, and he finally comes to the realization that the One Reality is God (hence him looking to the Heavens) and the hands are his struggles trying to pull him back down...

First off you are just taking bits and pieces of the lyrics, and that is how you are interpreting them, here are some of their other lyrics...



There is a conviction,
when you believe above,
absence leaks from inside,
and brings you back to life again,
I fear an emptiness,
so I just seek the truth,
then I just find myself,
coming back to you.

Lord please guide us through our struggles tonight,
let your presence be known here alongside of us throughout
this time,
let us know why we are here tonight,
it's for a purpose,
a certain reason,
allow our hearts to know that we are here because of our love for
the faith and what we do together as one, as well as for you lord,
Hebrews 11:6 "But without faith it is impossible to please him,
for he who comes to God must believe that he is,
and that he is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him."

No greater love,
there is no greater love.


Lord bind our souls as one,
there is no greater love.

Let your presence be known.

Lord bind our souls as one,
there is no greater love.

Father I'm here to pray in your name,
please push me in the direction of what is best for me,
give me the strength to believe, trust, and forgive,
but more importantly father I need you to rid me of my
fears and sins,
my feelings and actions are not hidden from you,
I ask for forgiveness in my time of need,
so you can see me through to things that I need,
and that's love and happiness it's all I'll ever need,
and with you by my side it will never leave.



Yeah not christian lyrics at all, right??

And look at this song and compare the verses, I think we do get the point here. They are a great influence and have positive lyrics, which you are just ignoring. For the last time, I HAVE watched the videos, I don't agree with them and I am not being lied and deceived to, however you are and I pray that God will open your heart...


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Mark on November 12, 2011, 11:43:49 am
wow.. No shame... I pray the Lord removes the scales from your eyes and lets you see the deception that you are under.

You might want to listen to this,
Tattoo’s, Body Modification & Piercing Exposed!
http://endtimesandcurrentevents.freesmfhosting.com/index.php/topic,3563.0.html

Some how i doubt your pride will let you.


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Mark on November 12, 2011, 11:54:34 am
Rat poison is 99% good food, its that 1% that is going to kill you. Its the same with this band, they could put out 99 great God fearing songs, and 1 that is bad. Like we have above. Even the devils fear God.

Jam 2:19   Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 

They might put out good songs, so what. its the others that are the problem. Just look at that album cover! Dear Lord rebuke that band.

Gal 5:9   A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. 

And that is what you have here. That tiny little bit that ruins that whole thing. You are being lied to, open your eyes and see the truth before its to late. This band is no good and their fruits are bearing that out, and look at how it is affecting you?

Pro 16:18   Pride [goeth] before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall. 



Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: metaldrew on November 12, 2011, 12:22:48 pm
Of course I don't have shame, there is nothing wrong with tattoos, and I won't look at that because its from Contendingfortruth, a site I have serious issues with... You should be ashamed because you are judging against people, something Jesus never did, he loved everyone, and for your information  there is nothing in the NT about tattoos, and alot of Christians believe that Jesus had a tattoo, so yeah... I pray that God will let the scales fall from your eyes and you will be able to actually love people instead of judging them on appearance... Somehow I doubt your pride will let you though



Again there is nothing wrong with the band, you pointed out nothing and proved nothing except you know how to twist lyrics around to fit your agenda

There is nothing wrong with the album cover. Dear Lord please let that band flourish and prosper, while they are reaching people for You!!!

You are being lied to my friend, these videos and these people are conservative people that only want people that conform to their personal beliefs to be saved, no one else, please let your eyes be opened before it is too late, and you are too old and bitter to turn to love...


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Mark on November 12, 2011, 12:38:16 pm
Judging? My friend we are to judge all things. http://endtimesandcurrentevents.freesmfhosting.com/index.php/topic,483.msg13071.html#msg13071

Quote
I won't look at that because its from Contendingfortruth

Pro 18:13   He that answereth a matter before he heareth [it], it [is] folly and shame unto him. 

So your content on your own knowledge. You know what is best for you and you alone. Where have i heard that before? You need to be careful there.

Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, 

Quote
Again there is nothing wrong with the band, you pointed out nothing and proved nothing except you know how to twist lyrics around to fit your agenda

I proved beyond a reasonable doubt with their demonic album cover filled with occultic symbols and their lyrics. What elese do i need? Would you eat the rat poison also? its mostly good food.

You have deceived yourself. And it is your choice to continue in that delusion.


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on November 12, 2011, 12:41:54 pm
Look - this is from my experiences - I at one time was a frequent listener of Amy Grant, Bob Carlise(sp), Ron Kenoiley(sp, the guy that did the song "Jesus is Alive"), Jars of Clay, etc...however, once I started listen to traditional gospel hymn music, it was as if a BIG weight has been lifted off of my shoulders.

The Contemporary Christian Rock et al is no different from secular rock music - when I was listening to these contemporary Christian rock music, it was as if even more of worldly burdens were being layed on my soul. For example, the Amy Grant music was no different from the rhythm and beat/vain lyric repetitiveness you hear in any typical secular rock music, ditto Bob Carlise. And I when I checked more in depth of that "Jesus is Alive" song Ron Kenoiley did(and it's sung in many churches every Easter), that too was full of repetitive lyrics and rhythm/beats. And just to throw this out there too, Kenoiley endorsed that anti-Christian/New Age bible version The Message(which was rewritten by one man, Eugene Peterson, who is a New Ager, but et yet, mainline Christianity somehow has embraced this version, including the SBC I believe).

We're telling you this b/c we don't want to offend you, but we're telling you this in love and truth. Like I said in one of the previous posts, when someone pointed out Isaiah 14:12, and how the NIV omitted Lucifer and referenced Jesus Christ instead, I was FLOORED. It was as if my stomach just fell through the roof. And I can't tell you how many times I've been rebunked throughout my lifetime, and many times since I've gotten saved. None of us here are "world class" Christians AT ALL, we are FAR from it. We are all speaking from our experiences. Personally, I was incredibly messed up for years. Praise the Lord I never ended up in jail. Yeah, I was that bad!

As for your question on the Illuminati in a previous post - just think about this for a moment...no matter what President gets elected, and what party(Democrat or Republican) controls Congress, don't you find it odd how things just end up getting worse and worse, no matter how bad things get, and "the next guy" promises "change"? But en yet the "next guy" just does the same things the previous guy does? But en yet, every election year the country gets duped into believing they HAVE TO VOTE for such and such candidate?(ie-you have the "religious right" blokes bullying everyone into voting Republican, and on the other spectrum you have the Jesse Jackson/Al Sharpton types bullying you into voting Democrat)

Those youtube videos we posted earlier in the thread would be a good start to learn about the Illuminati - yes, there's a "shadow government" that's pulling the strings behind the curtain, with Lucifer being the very head.


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: metaldrew on November 12, 2011, 01:05:57 pm
You are really a modern day pharisee, you are a hypocrite!!! You even quoted "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment" (John 7:24). However you do not adhere to it...

The verse you quoted has nothing to do with me, I did judge before I did my research, I have looked at that site extensively, and I disagree with its principles and ideas, how is that being prideful?? And yes I am confident on my knowledge of the BIBLE to know when people are being snakes like the people on the website contendingfortruth...

You proved nothing about the band. It is what YOU interpret to be a demonic symbol, nothing more. I disagree with you...

You may be eating the rat food that poisons your mind to hate and judge everyone different than you. I choose to partake in the food of the Word...



Bornagain2.. You also have been lied to by these websites "claiming to know all these secrets". They are pushing their own personal agendas on you, and that may be good enough for you, but it means nothing to me, I would rather form my opinions from the Bible.

I already rebuked your argument about Isaiah 4:12, maybe you should read the whole post before you post a response. I love the NIV and I believe it is superior to the KJV.

You are being dragged along by nothing more than a conspiracy theory about the Illuminati. You talk about all your life experiences, why don't you use them to open your eyes and stop being so naive?? You have nothing bu a lot of "claims" no proof, no evidence, you have nothing... There is no shadow government, I can't believe some people actually  believe this kind of stuff...


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Mark on November 12, 2011, 01:06:51 pm
Sex, Etc. and Texas in July means pro-abortion in PA
As a Christian and a pro-life advocate from time to time it comes to one's attention that not all which purports itself to be Christian is authentically Christ centered. Such an example is the so-called "Christian" metal group from Lancaster, PA who call themselves "Texas in July". Recently the group took up as part of a tour for the benefit of the website "Sex, etc." The premise of the site is "sex education for teens, by teens". The site, plainly speaking, takes up any number of themes which are clearly not Christian in tone. For instance, the sites forums address such issues as masturbati0n techniques, the merits of anal sex, graphic discussions about genitalia, the use of p0rnography in sex, homosexuality/transgender issues, advice on birth control for minors and not least, disucssions about sex between minors and adults, aka, statutory ****. Most notable is the websites outright support of abortion and America's largest abortion provider, Planned Parenthood.

Sex, etc. is not a marginal website. At 9AM eastern time at the time of this writing the site had varyingly 600-1000 visitors. "Texas in July" has more than 24,000 followers on Facebook alone and their fans have been turning out in great numbers online to support the band. The group for their part released a statement on Facebook stating that they do not support abortion and are at a loss for the "hurtful" things that are being said about them. The real question at hand is whether or not any group or organization can call itself Christian and still by extension endorse America's largest provider of abortion. None of the afore mentioned forum topics on Sex, etc. are things which any Christian group with any legitimacy could endorse, propose or excuse. Understandably people are concerned not about who listens to what kind of music, but about what kind of example is being set by members of a group who bill themselves as a Christian music act.

Clearly Texas in July has the right to perfom any kind of music they want to whatever audience they choose. This is not a question of free speech or artistic sensorship. People are rightfully concerned however that through music, which has the power to inspire, inform, motivate and to cause change, has by virtue of the public stand taken by it's creators, the power to tacitally approve abortion, which is so clearly in opposition to the Christian message. In these confused and often violent times in which we live, it is important that the Christian seal of approval be an authentic one. The followers of Texas in July on Facebook and their concert goers are largely younger members of our society, a great many who are teens, who are most deeply touched by the concerns of birth control, sexuality and the impact of legalized abortion. That they should be given a message, not only in contrast, but in direct opposition to the Christ's message of life, is deeply troubling.

Consider that this website even has a link, called Sex in the States, which provides a click-on map to research the various state laws so teens can learn where birth control and abortion can be attained without parental consent. This is virtually custom made for the off the book practices that Lila Rose and Live Action have exposed showing Planned Parenthood counselors advising teens to cross state lines for abortions. By supporting Sex, etc. they have become little more than a surrogate for Planned Parenthood and other abortion providers. In the post Kermit Gosnell America of dubious abortion referrals in the name of "health care" this can be not only an un-Christian proposition, but conceivably and potentially dangerous one. Parents need to beware of others who are either negligent of their childrens welfare or do not truly have their best interests at heart. The right to artistic expression does not include attaching the name of Jesus Christ to one's own uninformed or poorly formed value systems. Texas in July, a Christian metal band? Let the buyer beware.

http://rightsoftheunborn.blogspot.com/2011/05/sex-etc-and-texas-in-july-means-pro.html


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Mark on November 12, 2011, 01:11:56 pm
You are really a modern day pharisee, you are a hypocrite!!! You even quoted "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment" (John 7:24). However you do not adhere to it...

The verse you quoted has nothing to do with me, I did judge before I did my research, I have looked at that site extensively, and I disagree with its principles and ideas, how is that being prideful?? And yes I am confident on my knowledge of the BIBLE to know when people are being snakes like the people on the website contendingfortruth...

You proved nothing about the band. It is what YOU interpret to be a demonic symbol, nothing more. I disagree with you...

You may be eating the rat food that poisons your mind to hate and judge everyone different than you. I choose to partake in the food of the Word...




and you are a very angry person, wonder where that comes from? Sorry friend but we are to Judge everything, if you read that post you would have understood, but again you are going on what makes you feel better than what Gods Word has to say.

I proved beyond a reasonable doubt the bands demonic beliefs and the fruits you partake in. Again its your choice, no ones forcing you, you have willing chosen all you do.


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: akfools on November 12, 2011, 01:19:53 pm
Pro 12:1    ¶    Whoso loveth instruction loveth knowledge: but he that hateth reproof [is] brutish.


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: akfools on November 12, 2011, 01:24:52 pm
Pro 12:15         The way of a fool [is] right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel [is] wise.

Pro 12:23         A prudent man concealeth knowledge: but the heart of fools proclaimeth foolishness.

Psa 1:1    Blessed [is] the man  that walketh  not in the counsel of the ungodly , nor standeth  in the way of sinners , nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Mark on November 12, 2011, 01:31:53 pm
Would Texas in July Support a Group that Promoted Killing 3yr Olds?

http://www.starstuddedsuperstep.com/2011/05/would-texas-in-july-support-a-group-that-promoted-killing-3yr-olds/

Thats a big article with lots of links.


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Mark on November 12, 2011, 01:57:05 pm
I just went through all the lyrics of all the songs this band has done. The Name of Jesus was mentioned 0 times. Thats right, not once. And after reading that trash i really question how anyone can call this a Christian band.  :o

One Reality (2011)


Introduction lyrics
Magnolia lyrics
1000 Lies lyrics
Dreamer lyrics
Dying World lyrics
No Greater Love lyrics
May lyrics
Our Freedom lyrics
Cyclops lyrics
Pretender lyrics
One Reality lyrics
 I Am (2009)


Introduction lyrics
It's Not My First Rodeo lyrics
Elements lyrics
Lancaster lyrics
Hook, Line And Sinner lyrics
I Am Yours lyrics
Aurora lyrics
Page One lyrics
Reflections lyrics
Satellites lyrics
Father Time lyrics
A Fair Fight lyrics
 
Salt Of The Earth - EP (2008)


Hook, Line And Sinner lyrics
Dressed For War lyrics
Show Some Pride lyrics
There's Talk Of Strange Folk Abroad lyrics
Reflections lyrics
 Non-Album Songs Lyrics


Fight Fair lyrics
Uncivilized lyrics

 


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Mark on November 12, 2011, 03:27:16 pm


There is a conviction,
when you believe above,
absence leaks from inside,
and brings you back to life again,
I fear an emptiness,
so I just seek the truth,
then I just find myself,
coming back to you.

Lord please guide us through our struggles tonight,
let your presence be known here alongside of us throughout
this time,
let us know why we are here tonight,
it's for a purpose,
a certain reason,
allow our hearts to know that we are here because of our love for
the faith and what we do together as one, as well as for you lord,
Hebrews 11:6 "But without faith it is impossible to please him,
for he who comes to God must believe that he is,
and that he is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him."

No greater love,
there is no greater love.


Lord bind our souls as one,
there is no greater love.

Let your presence be known.

Lord bind our souls as one,
there is no greater love.

Father I'm here to pray in your name,
please push me in the direction of what is best for me,
give me the strength to believe, trust, and forgive,
but more importantly father I need you to rid me of my
fears and sins,
my feelings and actions are not hidden from you,
I ask for forgiveness in my time of need,
so you can see me through to things that I need,
and that's love and happiness it's all I'll ever need,
and with you by my side it will never leave.



Yeah not christian lyrics at all, right??

And look at this song and compare the verses, I think we do get the point here. They are a great influence and have positive lyrics, which you are just ignoring. For the last time, I HAVE watched the videos, I don't agree with them and I am not being lied and deceived to, however you are and I pray that God will open your heart...

Just to use your same analogy.

Quote
Slaves
Hebrews born to serve, to the pharaoh
Heed
To his every word, live in fear
Faith
Of the unknown one, the deliverer
Wait
Something must be done, four hundred years

So let it be written
So let it be done
I'm sent here by the chosen one
So let it be written
So let it be done
To kill the first born pharaoh's son
I'm creeping death

Now
Let my people go, land of Chosen
Go
I will be with thee, bush of fire
Blood
Running red and strong down the Nile
Plague
Darkness three days long, hail to fire

So let it be written
So let it be done
I'm sent here by the chosen one
So let it be written
So let it be done
To kill the first born pharaoh's son
I'm creeping death

Die by my hand
I creep across the land
Killing first-born man
Die by my hand
I creep across the land
Killing first-born man

I
Rule the midnight air, the destroyer
Born
I shall soon be there, deadly mass
I
Creep the steps and floor, final darkness
Blood
Lamb blood painted door, I shall pass

So let it be written
So let it be done
I'm sent here by the chosen one
So let it be written
So let it be done
To kill the first born pharaoh's son
I'm creeping death
these are also by a Christian Metal Band.  I mean it has a Biblical theme to it, its about a story in the Bible, the band must be Christian.  ::)


Title: "Does Jesus hate people that are different too?"
Post by: metaldrew on November 12, 2011, 03:35:58 pm
First off, I like how you changed the title of the topic, I think a better one would be, "Does Jesus hate people that are different too?" Because there is a clear amount of disgust coming from all of you...

I have already that article, but you seem intent to have me read things multiple times... The article proves nothing like it was said in the article "“[Texas in July is] probably wondering why fellow Christians and pro-lifers are attacking them. I believe this situation calls for grace over finger pointing. Let’s support them and make the best of this situation.”" They are not playing to support abortion, or to kill 3 yr. olds that is just a blatantly obvious false statement, one only a very foolish person would make.

You are again wrong about the judging thing, but I guess you like to ignore scripture huh?? I feel you are in grave danger of twisting scripture and committing blasphemy, you really need to learn to open your heart and repent...

Yet again, you have proved nothing, there is nothing demonic about them, you are just wrong. Plain and simple... wrong


Already talked about that ridiculous article...


Again, you are proven a liar.. You went through titles, not the lyrics, the ones I posted earlier clearly not only mention God's name, but quote a Bible verse, but maybe that's not "Christian" enough for you... I really question how anyone CAN"T call this a Christian band :o


And yes they are Christian bands, you have yet to prove how they aren't... Why don't you try old man??


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Mark on November 12, 2011, 03:46:15 pm
The title fits. I doubt if this band is Christian at all. I did read through ALL of their lyrics. Jesus was mentioned 0 times. Almost all of the songs have nothing to do with Jesus or the Bible, and tend to be on the darker side of things. I really do question if any of them are Christian. As i do not see it in their lyrics at all. And as i posted above the lyrics to Metallicas Creeping Death, does that song make them a Christian band?

Your angry, i get it. You need to see where that anger comes from. Are you willing to give up this kind of music? Jesus said to give up everything and follow him, or is this just to much for you and you'll be like Demas?

Seriously friend, watch that series of videos. Not the Hells Bells ones. The other. Open your eyes so you can see.


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Mark on November 12, 2011, 03:47:38 pm
Quote
Why don't you try old man??

im not that old, but thanx.

Pro 18:13   He that answereth a matter before he heareth [it], it [is] folly and shame unto him. 


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: metaldrew on November 12, 2011, 04:01:32 pm
The title is misleading and false, however most of the info that ya'll are providing is too, so I guess it works...

Are you really that blind??

Hebrews 11:6 "But without faith it is impossible to please him,
for he who comes to God must believe that he is,
and that he is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him."

No greater love,
there is no greater love.

Does it have to say Jesus to be a Christian band?? If you think so you are sadly mistaken. They are not on the darker side of things, they are actually really positive, but I guess again you are just turning a blind eye to it.

I am not angry, I am frustrated with people that don't live like Jesus like yourself, you are judgmental and bitter... And I am following Jesus, Jesus preached love, not hate, I believe that you are the one in danger of not following Him, are you willing to turn from your ways, or will you be like all the other hypocrites that flood Christianity??

And if you are not old, I am even more sorry for someone that is young and so stuck in their pitiful and wrong ways


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Mark on November 12, 2011, 04:09:39 pm
i dont know what else to say. Your choice enjoy.


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: metaldrew on November 12, 2011, 04:11:34 pm
Agree to disagree, no hard feelings, just love like Jesus  ;D


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Mark on November 12, 2011, 04:12:50 pm
i can agree on that.  :)


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Kilika on November 12, 2011, 04:53:40 pm
First off, I don't listen to "bubblegum top 40" never have never will. I listen to real metal bands, not hard rock bands which is mostly what you listed. I know who Edgar Winter is, not my style...

Why do people always insist that metal is childish and you will grow out of it?? That is a very broad and sweeping statement which is entirely unfounded. And if I am showing my age, then you are definitely showing yours. You have a biased self-righteous attitude that most old, Southern or Independent Baptist do, and I can just about guarantee you that not only are you against metal, but anyone with long hair, baggy clothes, tattoos, who drinks or smokes, and reads anything besides the KJV am I right??

Dude, trust me I am not a wannabe, I know that "most" metal is about being angry, however there is a lot of Christian metal that is not angry, the music is still upbeat and loud and crazy, but it doesn't have to be angry, it can just be loud and crazy, which is ok I promise... And I have been to well over 40 metal concerts, real metal concerts, I think that maybe YOU don't know what metal is since you posted system of a down, limp bizkit and kiss... None of which are metal, in fact no one you said really is besides Black Sabbath, and Metallica...

How can a phrase make you look like an unbeliever?? That makes no sense. If you are a believer then YOU would be well served to stop telling others how to live

Now why don't you get off your high horse, stop being so judgmental, and you learn how to talk to people of all ages with respect...


P.S I have 1 Corinthians 13 tattooed on my arm

I didn't think I was saying anyone but Black Sabbath and Metalica was metal. I thought I acknowledged the others are hard rock/classic rock. And I honestly hesitated to say they are true metal bands being som commericalized, but though i don't remember bands names, I did my share of listening to that style music.

Now here is why SOME people say kids grow out of listening to metal...because as you get old, things slow down, you want to slow down and not be in such a rush all the time and full of energy. Eventually, if you can imagine it, what you listen to now, will become rather loud and bothersome for any length of time as you get older. Your music tastes WILL soften. As you grow in Christ and older in age, your attitude and general mood will change to wanting peaceful surroundings. Metal is just too loud and agrressive. We are to be humble and meek, not loud and aggresive. Besides, if you think you can save people through music, your wrong. Jesus saves people, all we do is plant and water. We cannot choose to run out into the world and start preaching to people to save them, to "win souls for Jesus". It does'nt work that way. Salvation comes to those who ask God for it, not to whom we share it with. Does that make sense?

WE don't decide when people need to hear the Word. God does. Otherwise, it would be a case of man telling God when and where to save people and do good works, and I know that is not how it is. We are moved by the Spirit, not because the church pews are empty.

When we are young, we are mesmorized by all the sounds of life, but as we get older, it becomes nothing but noise that we seek to avoid. We can't hear the sounds of God's creation when man is making a bunch of noise!

We also are compelled by scripture to seek evey man another's wealth, not our own. Seek what's of faith and edifying.

Sorry, I just see nothing joyful in metal styled music. But whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: metaldrew on November 12, 2011, 05:23:21 pm
The only thing I will say is that I never said music can save people, obviously only Jesus can save, but I do think music can be of the seed, but that's just me... And maybe I will grow out of it, but you can't tell me that I WILL grow out of it, you just can't, but it's not a big deal...


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: B4Real on November 12, 2011, 06:06:37 pm
This is so STUPID to even debate. DUH DUH DUH do you just want an argument DOK? Ban metaldrew, he is a divider. He isn't KJV only. I joined this forum not to get in STUPID debate over DUH issues. DUH metal  is of SATAN. We are trying to talk about if Little House on Prairie and space alien frogs are christian. This guy needs to go to any other christian forum out there, they all will be anti-christs with him


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Mark on November 12, 2011, 06:55:10 pm
This is so STUPID to even debate. DUH DUH DUH do you just want an argument DOK? Ban metaldrew, he is a divider. He isn't KJV only. I joined this forum not to get in STUPID debate over DUH issues. DUH metal  is of SATAN. We are trying to talk about if Little House on Prairie and space alien frogs are christian. This guy needs to go to any other christian forum out there, they all will be anti-christs with him

 :o kind of harsh arent ya?

2Ti 3:16  All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17  That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.


do you get it now?


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on November 12, 2011, 07:03:36 pm
You know, what gripes me with Christians(not all, but some) that are around me is that when "new" things come up in today's church(ie-Leadership conferences hosted by the Emergent Church), and I point out the errors of them, their responses are like, "But times have changed".

Again, if something was rejected in the church 50 years ago and way before that, WHY is it all of a sudden embraced with full arms? Same with the xmas issue - the Pilgrims and Puritans didn't celebrate it(and their kids were in school on 12/25), and early America sure didn't celebrate it either(it was actually against the law). Any encyclopedia will say xmas is a pagan holiday. So why NOW?

God sure doesn't change his mind(he's the same yesterday, today, and forever), so all of a sudden he's changing his mind NOW? ::)


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Mark on November 12, 2011, 07:07:53 pm
You know, what gripes me with Christians(not all, but some) that are around me is that when "new" things come up in today's church(ie-Leadership conferences hosted by the Emergent Church), and I point out the errors of them, their responses are like, "But times have changed".

Again, if something was rejected in the church 50 years ago and way before that, WHY is it all of a sudden embraced with full arms? Same with the xmas issue - the Pilgrims and Puritans didn't celebrate it(and their kids were in school on 12/25), and early America sure didn't celebrate it either(it was actually against the law). Any encyclopedia will say xmas is a pagan holiday. So why NOW?

God sure doesn't change his mind(he's the same yesterday, today, and forever), so all of a sudden he's changing his mind NOW? ::)

Heb 13:8  Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: akfools on November 13, 2011, 02:54:16 am
Titus 3:10 KJV: A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Christian40 on November 13, 2011, 03:15:13 am
Just reading this thread, metaldrew you have just had what is called a "wake up" call.

I kind of feel sorry for you because i did like Christian rock for awhile but got over it, now you have to think about your beliefs especially in using the NIV Bible i suggest you go here:

http://www.av1611.org/niv.html

and

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Bible/1611_authorized_king_james.htm


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: metaldrew on November 13, 2011, 11:38:19 am
Thank you, I have not had a wake-up call though. I have already read this first link, and the second one did not really say anything that I haven't heard... Did ya'll know at one time the KJV was rejected in the church?? I just say this because you say that Jesus doesn't change, however you hold the KJV as the only really Bible, yet at one time it was viewed as heresy?? I just feel like there is a double standard, however that is just my view, and as me and Dok have agreed, we just agree to disagree on the whole metal issue...


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Mark on November 13, 2011, 12:07:34 pm
Quote
Did ya'll know at one time the KJV was rejected in the church??

Which church? a building? the Catholic church? The KJB was fully accepted by the Church, the body of Christ. it was only rejected by the Catholic, hense the reason they made a new Bible through Westcott and Hort.


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: metaldrew on November 13, 2011, 08:56:59 pm
"In fact, some 80% of the KJV was copied from the Geneva Bible. It is clear, then, that the KJV really was ‘just another English translation’, excellent when it was written (specially considering the limited number of manuscripts available at that time) but still ‘just a translation’ – just like the NIV and other modern Bibles... I wonder if the Christians who used the Geneva Bible of 1560 complained loudly about the “heretical new KJV Bible” when it was first introduced?"

Again, this is just some of the things I believe, if you don't it's no big deal


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Kilika on November 14, 2011, 01:25:57 am
Again, this is just something I've researched, it's no big deal...

King James Bible history
http://endtimesandcurrentevents.freesmfhosting.com/index.php/topic,38.0.html (http://endtimesandcurrentevents.freesmfhosting.com/index.php/topic,38.0.html)


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Christian40 on November 14, 2011, 03:16:58 am
Quote
I wonder if the Christians who used the Geneva Bible of 1560 complained loudly about the “heretical new KJV Bible” when it was first introduced?"

There is no historical record that anyone that read the Geneva Bible complained about the King James Bible from what i have read. What is there to complain about? Once they read it they would have realized that it is a pretty good read.

The Geneva Bible came about from persecuted English Christians in Geneva, Switzerland, the King James Bible came about so that the English would have there own superior English Bible for the British Empire. There were many more scholars available for the King James Version and i'm sure those that read the KJV knew that it had much better quality.


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Mark on November 14, 2011, 08:41:28 am
"In fact, some 80% of the KJV was copied from the Geneva Bible. It is clear, then, that the KJV really was ‘just another English translation’, excellent when it was written (specially considering the limited number of manuscripts available at that time) but still ‘just a translation’ – just like the NIV and other modern Bibles... I wonder if the Christians who used the Geneva Bible of 1560 complained loudly about the “heretical new KJV Bible” when it was first introduced?"

Again, this is just some of the things I believe, if you don't it's no big deal

Thats not quite true. The Whole KJB was translated out of the TR. Much of it corresponded to the Geneva. A lot didnt. Also the people that used the Geneva gave the up for the KJB.

if you would like to know how all of this played out watch this doc.

Lamp In The Dark:Untold History of the Bible ~ Full Documentary
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNZ-sOzXWEk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNZ-sOzXWEk)


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: pavelow on November 14, 2011, 08:46:16 am
I'm certainly not on the "Christian rock is of the devil" bandwagon, there are some groups out there that truly worship Jesus in their music. Go and listen to the video Dok posted the other day of Jeremy Camp's "the way". No doubt Jeremy is on fire for his Lord and Savior, and it shows in his lyrics!
But when I read lyrics like this:
"Father I'm here to pray in your name,
please push me in the direction of what is best for me"
There is no doubt what their music is all about...and their fruit is rotten.


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Mark on November 14, 2011, 08:58:00 am
there are very few msm "christian" songs i like. The Way by Jeremy Camp comes across as very Christian. I also line Andrew Mcleod, But i do not believe at all that this band, Texas in July is Christian at all. And i do not see how this kind of music is edifying or even a joyful noise.


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on December 23, 2011, 08:04:40 am
Please read "Inside Rock Music", which Bryan Denlinger at kingjamesvideoministries.com mails out for free by request.

It is a FASCINATING read over how all of this has been deliberate, and meant to pollute the minds of our youth since the 50's. It started out as secular rock, and then many years later opened the door for "Christian rock".


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Mark on December 23, 2011, 08:11:48 am
is it a book, phamphlet what?


Title: Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands?
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on December 26, 2011, 05:23:53 pm
is it a book, phamphlet what?

Sorry, didn't see this reply b/c when I got my new PC on Thurs after a 3 day hiatus, there were so many unread posts since my last visit that I ended up overlooking this one.

Yes, it's a book(no, it's not written by Bryan, FYI) - it's about 180 pages, but it's a fairly quick read, albeit a fascinating one. Just go to Bryan's site to email him, and he will send you one for free.