End Times and Current Events

General Category => Gospel of Jesus Christ => Topic started by: jackie on August 01, 2011, 07:51:22 pm



Title: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: jackie on August 01, 2011, 07:51:22 pm
got in debate with a pastor about OSAS issue. May I ask what are the majority's view on this and could you provide some supporting scripture that upholds your views. Seeking the truth, I believed once saved always saved but this particular pastor had me questioning myself and used scripture too.

I'm beginning to believe I need to stay away from all "formal churches" but I need fellowship and the Word says forsake not the assembling of yourselves together even the more so as you see the day approaching.   Help!         ???


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Mark on August 01, 2011, 08:06:06 pm
Joh 10:26  But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
Joh 10:27  My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Joh 10:28  And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Joh 10:29  My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Joh 10:30  I and my Father are one.


you might also find some good info here. http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=141557.0
 maybe...  ;)


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: PeanutGallery on August 01, 2011, 08:33:53 pm
One thing I learned is that Calvinists tend toward OSAS due to irrestible grace, and Arminians tend towards conditional security due to freewill.
------------------------

Keep in mind the parable of the soil; people will fall into one of the four categories.

Luk 8:11  Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
Luk 8:12  Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

Luk 8:13  They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

Luk 8:14  And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.

Luk 8:15  But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on August 01, 2011, 09:21:00 pm
Once saved always saved

Do saved Christians who commit suicide go to the lake of fire

Is it a pre-trib rapture or does the church have to endure persecution during the tribulation?

Is it a 7 year trib or a 3.5 year one?

I'll be honest, there are certain topics where both sides of the fence have equally convincing arguments and are able to point out the proper scripture, but at the same time they will have their share of errors which end up prolonging the argument for months. So I try to stray away from them.


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Believer on August 01, 2011, 10:20:36 pm
Once saved always saved

Do saved Christians who commit suicide go to the lake of fire

Is it a pre-trib rapture or does the church have to endure persecution during the tribulation?

Is it a 7 year trib or a 3.5 year one?

I'll be honest, there are certain topics where both sides of the fence have equally convincing arguments and are able to point out the proper scripture, but at the same time they will have their share of errors which end up prolonging the argument for months. So I try to stray away from them.

Amen.  These only lead to quarrels and divide the Church.  Only the Holy Spirit can lead each one to the truth and the funny thing is that all of us believes we are correct and yet someone is wrong and of course it is always everyone else who is wrong. lol.  It will be a never-ending array of posts where human pride trumps the search for the truth in humility. 


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: PeanutGallery on August 01, 2011, 11:21:44 pm
Best advice?

Php_2:12  Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on August 01, 2011, 11:29:59 pm
One thing on this I will say - when we're saved, it does not give us the right to act like the devil and recklessly. But on the flip side of the coin, we're fooling ourselves if we think we have to be in sinless perfection(1 John chapter 1 - otherwise, we call God a liar).

Ultimately, the bible is THE standard of authority, which is why we have to study it daily and let the Holy Spirit guide our lives with it. Personally, when I got saved in 2006, sometimes I put more attention on the average joe Christian book, and other times I would listen more closely to Charles Stanley, ultimately, I really never got into the word of God on a consistent basis...until 3 years later when the Lord pointed me in the direction of the KJV(it was shortly before when I stumbled on Scott's teaching on maitreya, and I met Dok and Kilika over on PPF that ended up pointing me to here).

So as you can see, once you are saved, you are in God's family - and he will do everything to chase you, chastise you, and whip the fire out of you. In my case for an off-and-on-again 3 year period after I got saved, God may have just delivered my flesh over to Satan b/c of my hard-heartedness so that my spirit shall be saved over the long haul.

Anyhow, thought I would point out my personal testimony here.


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Believer on August 02, 2011, 01:25:34 am
Best advice?

Php_2:12  Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

If not, still most excellent! 


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Kilika on August 02, 2011, 06:44:04 am
"What shall we then say to these things? If God [be] for us, who [can be] against us?" Romans 8:31 (KJB)


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: jackie on August 02, 2011, 06:35:25 pm
well , thank you for all your input. Truly I did not bring up this discussion to cause division, but am truly seeking truth here.
After reading everyones post I am still convinced that OSAS is correct, when I was saved and born again God made all things new and changed my desires. I find great peace in believing I cannot loose my salvation, that the blood of Jesus is all powerful and He is able to keep me. My head is not in the sand, the more closely I walk with the Lord the more I am aware of my sin and detest it. My hope is in that glorious day when I will shed this body and be made an eternal sinless being in His presence.

1 Cor 15:52-53 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Christian40 on August 06, 2011, 03:58:50 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MT2jDpeYSM&feature=share

This is a video showing that there are two major verses that are wrested out their context to attack eternal security in the dispensations. One is Matt.24:13 (Mk.13:13), which states that one had to endure unto the end to be saved. This is used to attack eternal security in the church age. Salvation here is referring to entering the Millennium Kingdom, not eternal salvation. No Christian has to 'endure to the end' to stay eternally saved Second, is Rev.14:12, which speaks of the patience of the saints and keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. The assumption is that this refers to the mosaic law and that one could lose their salvation under the Mosaic Law. Yet, Jn.10:37-37 says otherwise. Moreover, keeping the commandments of God is stated in 1Cor.7:19 for the Christian as well, and we know the Christian is not under the Mosaic Law. The commandments are summed up as simply loving God and one's neighbor, and that comes from love, a love only believing God can produce.



Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: jackie on August 06, 2011, 07:41:06 am
Nice !  thanks for the post.    Blessings, Jackie


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Lisa on August 14, 2011, 03:27:53 pm
Luke 13
 6He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.

 7Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?

 8And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:

 9And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.

Mathew 3
10And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Gal 5
16This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

 17For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

 18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

 19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

 20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

 23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

 24And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.



My understanding-The life of a believer is really a walk (a growing) and one starts a walk at the beginning and one walks to an end point. A tree is sewn and it continues to fruition.

One must walk in the strength of Christ-unless one is continually yielding to him, then one will be walking in the flesh (to carnality) and will be hewn down....I seen many folk start off good and then not yield to the spirit and eventually their end is stunningly bad (as Gal 5), one would assume without inheritance...





Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Kilika on August 20, 2011, 05:55:10 am
13   In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 
14   Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. 
Ephesians 1:13,14 (KJB)


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Kilika on October 25, 2012, 03:19:33 pm
5   Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6   Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7   That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Titus 3:5-7 (KJB)


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Boldhunter on October 25, 2012, 06:22:04 pm
What is PPF?


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on October 25, 2012, 07:03:38 pm
What is PPF?

Prison Planet Forum


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Christian40 on December 22, 2013, 12:00:25 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6jCnZgYrbg

YOU CAN'T LOSE IT


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on February 23, 2014, 02:17:18 pm
These so-called "Christians" who deny ES can be really something, to say the least.

Was on a YT comments section(on Bryan's previous video discussing), and he called ES a lie. I responded to his comment and asked him if this is true, does this mean he's never sinned nor backslid in his life? He responded how I asked a dumb and foolish question.

Here's the conversation text - notice how these anti-ES people are arrogant and anti-social.

The other guy
Quote
I know men who went back into living in sin when some preacher convinsed them that they could NEVER lose their salvation. John MacArthur is on Youtube telling people that a person could receive the mark of the beast and still be forgiven. ES teachers not only misinterpret scripture to make it say what they want but they condemn the simple of minded in the process. God will demand an account of you at the judgment seat of Christ. I would NOT want to be you on that day.

Me
Quote
So you've never sinned nor backslid in your life?

1John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

The other guy
Quote
But foolish and unlearned questions avoid knowing that they do gender strife. That my friend is a dumb, dumb question.

Me
Quote
Actually, you didn't answer the question. If ES is a lie, then are you saying Christians can never sin nor backslide?

1Peter 3:15  But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Kilika on February 24, 2014, 04:51:48 am
I think, based on the scripture that came out, God was telling you don't waste your time with that person.

"Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him." Psalm 26:4 (KJB)


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: rick50 on September 24, 2014, 06:39:40 pm
Luke 13
 6He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.

 7Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?

 8And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:

 9And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.

Mathew 3
10And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Gal 5
16This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

 17For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

 18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

 19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

 20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

 23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

 24And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.



My understanding-The life of a believer is really a walk (a growing) and one starts a walk at the beginning and one walks to an end point. A tree is sewn and it continues to fruition.

One must walk in the strength of Christ-unless one is continually yielding to him, then one will be walking in the flesh (to carnality) and will be hewn down....I seen many folk start off good and then not yield to the spirit and eventually their end is stunningly bad (as Gal 5), one would assume without inheritance...






This post really speaks to me. It took me a long time to see how important it is to yield. I was a start off good. I had Bible knowledge, truth, revelation and faith given to me through the Holy Spirit. Not fully yielding wrecked everything.

Your assumption might be a concern though. When a believer strays ( and all believers do), one of two things occur. Either they invoke God`s chastisment or they don`t. The Bible says the donts are not sons.
But the sons and daughters who fall under chastisement are still saved due to the fact that salvation is accomplished by the blood of Christ.

You and I do not have the capability to know who God will chastise and who He won`t so assumptions can be wrong if not damaging to one`s own self.


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: rick50 on September 24, 2014, 06:52:21 pm
well , thank you for all your input. Truly I did not bring up this discussion to cause division, but am truly seeking truth here.
After reading everyones post I am still convinced that OSAS is correct, when I was saved and born again God made all things new and changed my desires. I find great peace in believing I cannot loose my salvation, that the blood of Jesus is all powerful and He is able to keep me. My head is not in the sand, the more closely I walk with the Lord the more I am aware of my sin and detest it. My hope is in that glorious day when I will shed this body and be made an eternal sinless being in His presence.

1 Cor 15:52-53 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.


This topic is a contentious debate that rages on every inter-denominational board on the internet. Salvation is so important that we are all very emotionally wrapped around our beliefs about what it takes to be saved and stay saved. People mean well and at the same time grow really contentious about it all. I have some argument that I believe is gospel truth and to some extent bridges the gap between the two arguments and addresses some the things that have an appearance of contradiction. I`m still looking this board over right now but I`ll get back to this subject.


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Christian40 on September 25, 2014, 04:34:42 am
Okay i was thinking about how the verses in this article how would someone who is not OSAS deal with these? i believe in OSAS !

SINNER'S PRAYER AND SALVATION 9/7/14

http://blessedhopephilippines.blogspot.com/2014/09/sinners-prayer-and-salvation.html

Many of you may not like what I am going to say here, but that is alright. Now, let me just say that salvation DOES NOT come from saying a prayer. Salvation comes from BELIEVING ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST.

Acts 16:29(KJB) Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Acts 16:31 And they said, BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

I have NO PROBLEM with anyone praying, but before someone prays, they must believe first. It is worthless for someone to pray and they do not even believe in Christ and his death, burial and resurrection. If they do not believe first, we leave the door open for the person to count on the prayer for their salvation and not Christ. I came across a someone and confronted him about leading someone in prayer for salvation. He told me that when he got saved, he repeated a prayer and that he knows that he is saved. He was counting on the prayer and not Christ.

Just take a look at the book of Acts. There is not one person mentioned who prayed for salvation. Praying is not even mentioned. IT IS ALL ABOUT TURNING FROM UNBELIEF TO BELIEF IN CHRIST AND HIS FINISHED WORK AT CALVARY (REPENTANCE). so praying is NOT NECESSARY FOR SALVATION but, if someone would like to pray, I have no problem with it, if they believe first.

1. The Ethiopian Eunuch (Acts 8:26-39)
2. The Apostle Paul (Acts 9:1-8; 22:5-19; 26:12-18)
3. Cornelius and his household (Acts 10-1 through 11:18)
4. Antioch firstfruits (Acts 11:19-26)
5. Sergius Paulus (Acts 13:6-12)
6. Glorifying the Word in Pisidian Antioch (Acts 13:14-49)
7. Iconium Believers (Acts 14:1)
8. Lydia (Acts 16:12-15)
9. The Philippian Jailer (Acts 16:16-34)
10. Thesalonicans with Biblical reason (Acts 17:1-4)
11. Berean Belief (Acts 17:10-12)
12. Mars Hill Idolaters (Acts 17:16-34)

Not one time do these verses mention that any of them prayed for salvation or had to pray for salvation.

Look at John 3:16-18:

John 3:16(KJB) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever BELIEVETH in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
John 3:18 He that BELIEVETH on him is not condemned: but he that BELIEVETH NOT is condemned already, because HE HATH NOT BELIEVED IN THE NAME OF THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD.

John 1:12(KJB) But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that BELIEVE ON HIS NAME:
John 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

1Corinthians 1:21(KJB) For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching TO SAVE THEM THAT BELIEVE.

So, soul winning will take time. It may take someone a long period of time before they will believe the gospel (1 Corinthians 15 1-4). A few visits may have to be made. So, be patient, keep praying for the lost and trust the Lord. Stop being in such a hurry to get someone to pray. Let the Lord do a work in them through the power of the Holy Spirit. May the Lord bless you all.


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: rick50 on September 25, 2014, 06:08:37 am
Okay i was thinking about how the verses in this article how would someone who is not OSAS deal with these? i believe in OSAS !

SINNER'S PRAYER AND SALVATION 9/7/14

http://blessedhopephilippines.blogspot.com/2014/09/sinners-prayer-and-salvation.html

Many of you may not like what I am going to say here, but that is alright. Now, let me just say that salvation DOES NOT come from saying a prayer. Salvation comes from BELIEVING ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST.

Acts 16:29(KJB) Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Acts 16:31 And they said, BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

I have NO PROBLEM with anyone praying, but before someone prays, they must believe first. It is worthless for someone to pray and they do not even believe in Christ and his death, burial and resurrection. If they do not believe first, we leave the door open for the person to count on the prayer for their salvation and not Christ. I came across a someone and confronted him about leading someone in prayer for salvation. He told me that when he got saved, he repeated a prayer and that he knows that he is saved. He was counting on the prayer and not Christ.

Just take a look at the book of Acts. There is not one person mentioned who prayed for salvation. Praying is not even mentioned. IT IS ALL ABOUT TURNING FROM UNBELIEF TO BELIEF IN CHRIST AND HIS FINISHED WORK AT CALVARY (REPENTANCE). so praying is NOT NECESSARY FOR SALVATION but, if someone would like to pray, I have no problem with it, if they believe first.

1. The Ethiopian Eunuch (Acts 8:26-39)
2. The Apostle Paul (Acts 9:1-8; 22:5-19; 26:12-18)
3. Cornelius and his household (Acts 10-1 through 11:18)
4. Antioch firstfruits (Acts 11:19-26)
5. Sergius Paulus (Acts 13:6-12)
6. Glorifying the Word in Pisidian Antioch (Acts 13:14-49)
7. Iconium Believers (Acts 14:1)
8. Lydia (Acts 16:12-15)
9. The Philippian Jailer (Acts 16:16-34)
10. Thesalonicans with Biblical reason (Acts 17:1-4)
11. Berean Belief (Acts 17:10-12)
12. Mars Hill Idolaters (Acts 17:16-34)

Not one time do these verses mention that any of them prayed for salvation or had to pray for salvation.

Look at John 3:16-18:

John 3:16(KJB) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever BELIEVETH in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
John 3:18 He that BELIEVETH on him is not condemned: but he that BELIEVETH NOT is condemned already, because HE HATH NOT BELIEVED IN THE NAME OF THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD.

John 1:12(KJB) But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that BELIEVE ON HIS NAME:
John 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

1Corinthians 1:21(KJB) For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching TO SAVE THEM THAT BELIEVE.

So, soul winning will take time. It may take someone a long period of time before they will believe the gospel (1 Corinthians 15 1-4). A few visits may have to be made. So, be patient, keep praying for the lost and trust the Lord. Stop being in such a hurry to get someone to pray. Let the Lord do a work in them through the power of the Holy Spirit. May the Lord bless you all.

The Bible says that devils believe and tremble. The writer of this article takes an extreme position that is contrary to the gospel. There are many problems with his view. One point being,belief in the Biblical sense affects ones behavior and that aspect of it is supported by many scriptures.


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on September 25, 2014, 08:22:06 am
The Bible says that devils believe and tremble. The writer of this article takes an extreme position that is contrary to the gospel. There are many problems with his view. One point being,belief in the Biblical sense affects ones behavior and that aspect of it is supported by many scriptures.

Let's not forget that we are all still in our weak flesh.

Galatians 5:17  For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.


And let's not forget too that it's THE LORD who will guide us in all things, and not ourselves.

1John 2:27  But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

For example - can't tell you how many times where temptations and the lusts of the flesh would be pretty big, but the Holy Spirit inside of me would yell "Warning! Danger Ahead!".

2Thes 3:3  But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.

Ultimately, we can't do anything of ourselves.

Romans 3:25  Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Rom 3:26  To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Rom 3:27  Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Rom 3:28  Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: rick50 on September 25, 2014, 05:48:50 pm
Let's not forget that we are all still in our weak flesh.

Galatians 5:17  For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.


And let's not forget too that it's THE LORD who will guide us in all things, and not ourselves.

1John 2:27  But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

For example - can't tell you how many times where temptations and the lusts of the flesh would be pretty big, but the Holy Spirit inside of me would yell "Warning! Danger Ahead!".

2Thes 3:3  But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.

Ultimately, we can't do anything of ourselves.

Romans 3:25  Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Rom 3:26  To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Rom 3:27  Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Rom 3:28  Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.


Yes brother, and for all these reasons we must yield to God`s Spirit and follow. When I am feeling the weight of my own unworthyness I usually think about Romans 3:25, reminding myself that Jesus is the propiation for all sin. To me propiation is a powerful word and it`s a verse that comforts me when I am in need.


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on September 29, 2014, 09:36:47 am
Hebrews 6:4  For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5  And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6  If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


No, this passage does NOT mean a Christian can lose his or her salvation if they fall away into sin - just think about it(and here's a couple of examples)...

1) Let's say a professing born-again believer is seen by his unbelieving neighbors, co-workers, etc walking into a movie theater to watch a movie with alot of violence, blasphemy, and foul language. Didn't he or she ruin their own testimony and put the Son of God unto open shame?

2) Rick Warren I don't think is a saved man - but nonetheless - a couple of years ago(for example), he asked his congregation at his church for $1m in 72 hours b/c (supposedly)they were under-budget that much. But guess what happened subsequently - even the UNBELIEVING world was able to discern this wickedness(while professing Christians just stood down and acted like he did the right thing). So what did they do? They put the Son of God to an open shame(which Warren himself provoked, to say the least!).

Ultimately, our lives as born-again believers are for Jesus Christ. We don't lose our salvation, but ultimately we have to give an account to the Lord Jesus Christ at the judgment seat of Christ for everything we said and did.

2Corinthians 5:10  For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
2Co 5:11  Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.



Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: rick50 on September 29, 2014, 08:42:46 pm
Hebrews 6:4  For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5  And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6  If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


No, this passage does NOT mean a Christian can lose his or her salvation if they fall away into sin - just think about it(and here's a couple of examples)...

1) Let's say a professing born-again believer is seen by his unbelieving neighbors, co-workers, etc walking into a movie theater to watch a movie with alot of violence, blasphemy, and foul language. Didn't he or she ruin their own testimony and put the Son of God unto open shame?

2) Rick Warren I don't think is a saved man - but nonetheless - a couple of years ago(for example), he asked his congregation at his church for $1m in 72 hours b/c (supposedly)they were under-budget that much. But guess what happened subsequently - even the UNBELIEVING world was able to discern this wickedness(while professing Christians just stood down and acted like he did the right thing). So what did they do? They put the Son of God to an open shame(which Warren himself provoked, to say the least!).

Ultimately, our lives as born-again believers are for Jesus Christ. We don't lose our salvation, but ultimately we have to give an account to the Lord Jesus Christ at the judgment seat of Christ for everything we said and did.

2Corinthians 5:10  For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
2Co 5:11  Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.




How about this one. Same topic. From Hebrews 10.

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


What do we do with these?  Deny it?  Say the book of Hebrews is wrong? Contradict it?

I`ve dealt with a few people who were struggling with these passages before. It been my experience that the above excuses will not satisfy the concern and doubt.

Then there are others who use these passage to argue that people who are really saved do not sin and that since you acknowledge that you sin then you are not saved.
And they have put you are in a position in which you will deny what the scriptures say.

I have to get off my pc for awhile now. LOL!  Sorry about that. But when I come back I`ll share my position on these passages and how I think they must be reconciled with the rest of the gospel.


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: rick50 on September 29, 2014, 11:38:51 pm
Paul gave two principles for understanding the Bible.

First is.

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Second is.

2 Timothy 2:15

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.


Paul tells us that all scriptures can enrich us as doctrines, to criticize and correct us and to instruct us in righteousness. But we must correctly divide them. To me that means understanding the ages/dispensations, the various covenants of God, and who scriptures are addressing.

While it is true that the scriptures are addressing all of us, they were also directed to people living at the time the scriptures were given.

In the case of the book of Hebrews, can you guess who it is addressing? LOL!

Israel in the first century is almost comparable to modern Islamic religious state. It was dangerous and costly in many way to believe in Jesus. Also, the Hebrew believers had lived during the time of Christ, They seen Him, heard Him, many of them witnessed His miracles and in my opinion they had a greater responsibility to strongly believe then you and I today.

When somebody fell away from that body of believers they didn`t stop being religious. What they did was renounce Christ and return to the Hebrew religion of the time. Some if not many of them renounced their faith knowing in their heart that Jesus is the Christ.

This is the type of falling away the writer of Hebrews is condemning.

The only thing in our culture I know of to compare it to would be a Christian who became agnostic or atheist. I would not go as far to condemn such people but I`m not under the kind of pressure those Hebrews were under either.

The issue seen in Hebrews in 6 and 10 is not a matter of someone straying from Jesus. It was more serious then that which is the point I`m trying to make.
Even so I cannot see much hope for them. I`ve dealt with some and they are dry twigs with no life in them.


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: tennis shoe on September 29, 2014, 11:42:10 pm
I was once in Jackie’s position. I had just discovered the passage about “the unpardonable sin” and the demons were having a field day with me. “Ooh, you’ve done it now. No hope for you. You can kiss that salvation goodbye! Might as well stick with us because God may or may not have just rejected you!”

Well, I was so distressed that I had to drop everything go to a brother’s house immediately to get this straight. I didn’t even want to know what the unpardonable sin was for fear that I might be tempted to do it. After I told him what was happening to me, he said, “Oh, that old trick. If you had committed the unpardonable sin, you wouldn’t be standing here worried about it.”

It then occurred to me what that was. The key word in Hebrews 10:26 is “willfully”.

I believe God is fair and just. If somebody knows full well who the Father, the Son, and The Holy Spirit is and what they have to offer, then decides repeatedly to reject that in favor of knowingly being a child of Satan, with all the consequences thereof, then I believe God, specifically the Holy Spirit, will eventually honor that free-will decision and withdraw completely from that person.

There are some that walk the earth like this. They are favored by the world, and able to commit the most heinous sins while sleeping just fine at night and fully believing without a shadow of a doubt whatever Satan and his demons tell them. There is no conscience whatsoever to be found within these people. The world describes them as psychopaths and sociopaths. They become quite brilliant and intelligent, yet insane. Just like their father.

A classic example of God’s grace is the necessity of the cremation of care ceremony at the Bohemian Grove. The participants have to repeatedly tell God to go away. Yet He still makes the offer to them.


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Christian40 on September 30, 2014, 04:20:00 am
Quote
2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Notice it says study to shew thyself approved unto God and not to fellow believers again it is important to please God and not man.

I was once in Jackie’s position. I had just discovered the passage about “the unpardonable sin” and the demons were having a field day with me. “Ooh, you’ve done it now. No hope for you. You can kiss that salvation goodbye! Might as well stick with us because God may or may not have just rejected you!”

well i used to believe once that there was "the unpardonable sin" too and when i found out that a child of God cannot lose their salvation just as a child cant stop from being related to their mum and dad then there was no problem.

A classic example of God’s grace is the necessity of the cremation of care ceremony at the Bohemian Grove. The participants have to repeatedly tell God to go away. Yet He still makes the offer to them.

Yeah them Bohemian Grove members have no fear of hellfire which is where they will go unless they repent


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: rick50 on September 30, 2014, 06:17:06 am
Notice it says study to shew thyself approved unto God and not to fellow believers again it is important to please God and not man.



Absolutely. And I believe motive makes a huge difference.  Reality is, I`m not that smart although I have been at times in the past accused of thinking that I am because of the way I present things. My motive and desire in studying scripture has always been driven by a deep curiosity to know what God thinks about things and to learn secrets of the scriptures. I believe that out of that I have been blessed with a portion of Spirit given insight and revelation that has allowed me to advance beyond what my intellectual capability is. Left to my own efforts I know in my heart that I wouldn`t get very far and in many things would not be capable of understanding the deeper things of God.

I believe that knowing and understanding truth from the scriptures is a gift of the Holy Spirit. Without that I think it impossible to understand the gospel.


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: tennis shoe on September 30, 2014, 12:58:55 pm
I believe that knowing and understanding truth from the scriptures is a gift of the Holy Spirit. Without that I think it impossible to understand the gospel.

Ooh. That’s a critical and most excellent point.

The devil and those in his camp KNOW scripture the same as one would thoroughly know the contents of a legal textbook. But they have chosen long ago to disconnect completely from the source of all life. As such, they cannot discern the motive or intent behind what is written.

Occultists do use the Bible. But it’s for a different reason that God has intended.


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: rick50 on September 30, 2014, 03:20:46 pm
Ooh. That’s a critical and most excellent point.

The devil and those in his camp KNOW scripture the same as one would thoroughly know the contents of a legal textbook. But they have chosen long ago to disconnect completely from the source of all life. As such, they cannot discern the motive or intent behind what is written.

Occultists do use the Bible. But it’s for a different reason that God has intended.

I believe any outside influence affects your ability to understand the scriptures. Paul said the things of God must be spiritually discerned. A long time ago I began working at leaving behind all my preconceived ideas and beliefs. Things like church creeds, American ideals, my own opinion on how I think things should be. My goal was to become an open vessel to Gods word without any internal beliefs of mine getting in the way and I believe my effort to do that has paid off over the years. What I believe now is different in a lot of ways then what it was 20 or 30 years ago.


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: tennis shoe on September 30, 2014, 03:59:12 pm
Those outside influences are legion. They can be quite elaborate and convincing.

I did the same thing with “love”. Threw out all my conditioned responses and preconceived notions. Dared to ask the question, “What if I’ve been lied to my entire life about this?”

Then I looked into an honest assessment of what scriptures say that is, of what God says that is. Forget about what I think for a moment.

What I found was most revealing as to who He is and how He operates. It allowed me to distinguish between things of God and things not of God. And it further gave me a path, a direction to proceed with my life. Still a work in progress.


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: rick50 on September 30, 2014, 04:02:00 pm
I was once in Jackie’s position. I had just discovered the passage about “the unpardonable sin” and the demons were having a field day with me. “Ooh, you’ve done it now. No hope for you. You can kiss that salvation goodbye! Might as well stick with us because God may or may not have just rejected you!”

Well, I was so distressed that I had to drop everything go to a brother’s house immediately to get this straight. I didn’t even want to know what the unpardonable sin was for fear that I might be tempted to do it. After I told him what was happening to me, he said, “Oh, that old trick. If you had committed the unpardonable sin, you wouldn’t be standing here worried about it.”

It then occurred to me what that was. The key word in Hebrews 10:26 is “willfully”.

I believe God is fair and just. If somebody knows full well who the Father, the Son, and The Holy Spirit is and what they have to offer, then decides repeatedly to reject that in favor of knowingly being a child of Satan, with all the consequences thereof, then I believe God, specifically the Holy Spirit, will eventually honor that free-will decision and withdraw completely from that person.

There are some that walk the earth like this. They are favored by the world, and able to commit the most heinous sins while sleeping just fine at night and fully believing without a shadow of a doubt whatever Satan and his demons tell them. There is no conscience whatsoever to be found within these people. The world describes them as psychopaths and sociopaths. They become quite brilliant and intelligent, yet insane. Just like their father.

A classic example of God’s grace is the necessity of the cremation of care ceremony at the Bohemian Grove. The participants have to repeatedly tell God to go away. Yet He still makes the offer to them.

I can see where you are coming from on that and there is truth in what you are saying. But I think in our time it`s easy to get hung up on the term "willful". Sins are nearly always committed willfully and people always know so in their hearts which is why these passages can be very troubling. The culture of the early church was different then ours. In the early church the brethren would confront you and even call you out in church if they found out you were sinning. They didn`t overlook it like we do today.

In the context of those passages the willful sinning resulted in a complete departure from the faith and a rejection of it. The example given is a person who despised the Law of Moses. So I believe in those days the sinning was a much deeper rejection of Christ then it is among us.

I think noting this difference is important because I believe there is always hope for a backslider as long as they still believe in Jesus. I think it`s a error to use these passages to take away that hope and there are some who do that.

My view on these passages affirms what the passages say and at the same time reconciles them with the doctrine of God`s chastisement, and the doctrine of God`s forgiveness of confessed sin found in the epistles of John.



Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: rick50 on September 30, 2014, 04:04:56 pm
Those outside influences are legion. They can be quite elaborate and convincing.

I did the same thing with “love”. Threw out all my conditioned responses and preconceived notions. Dared to ask the question, “What if I’ve been lied to my entire life about this?”

Then I looked into an honest assessment of what scriptures say that is, of what God says that is. Forget about what I think for a moment.

What I found was most revealing as to who He is and how He operates. It allowed me to distinguish between things of God and things not of God. And it further gave me a path, a direction to proceed with my life. Still a work in progress.

Yes, that`s good. I think this life is meant to always be a work in progress.


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: tennis shoe on September 30, 2014, 04:12:01 pm
But it’s for a different reason that God has intended.

*than

Missed that typo before.


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: tennis shoe on September 30, 2014, 05:16:31 pm
I can see where you are coming from on that and there is truth in what you are saying. But I think in our time it`s easy to get hung up on the term "willful". Sins are nearly always committed willfully and people always know so in their hearts which is why these passages can be very troubling. The culture of the early church was different then ours. In the early church the brethren would confront you and even call you out in church if they found out you were sinning. They didn`t overlook it like we do today.

In the context of those passages the willful sinning resulted in a complete departure from the faith and a rejection of it. The example given is a person who despised the Law of Moses. So I believe in those days the sinning was a much deeper rejection of Christ then it is among us.

I think noting this difference is important because I believe there is always hope for a backslider as long as they still believe in Jesus. I think it`s a error to use these passages to take away that hope and there are some who do that.

My view on these passages affirms what the passages say and at the same time reconciles them with the doctrine of God`s chastisement, and the doctrine of God`s forgiveness of confessed sin found in the epistles of John.



I agree. “Willful” is ultimately His decision. He knows time, place, circumstances, thoughts, and hearts.

For that matter, Christ is the only one out of every being that ever existed to be found worthy to break seals in the end. Nobody else qualifies.

Compare “Forgive them Father. They know not what they do.” to the Ananias and Sapphira incident. It does fit what you’re saying about the early church.

Add to that the modern confusion of redefining the word “sin” (and a lot of other words as well) to fit human agendas and it becomes easy to see that we humans require His Spirit to retrieve us from the flotsam and jetsam which is the world.

“Competition is a sin.” - John D. Rockefeller

Otherwise it’s just the blind leading the blind into a pit. We are all literally in need of a good shepherd to guide us in the right direction. False christs, counterfeit spirits, and angels of light practically guarantee that humans will remain lost, wandering around aimlessly without Him and His Holy Spirit.

People have saved nobody.
Churches have saved nobody.
The world has saved nobody.

Christ knows and sees all of this more than I do because He’s the one that showed me all of these things.

Years ago, I was lamenting to Him about the injustice in the world. He asked me if I wanted justice or mercy? Should He just end it all now? Bring the hammer down? Get ‘er done?

Then he showed me all the people now and in the future who have not yet made their choice or haven’t had a fair and square chance to make that choice.

I asked Him for more time for the sake of those people.

He also showed me where all those prayers from everybody crying out for justice were going. The prayers that didn't seem to be answered at the time. They were going into a bowl for future use.


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: rick50 on September 30, 2014, 11:08:30 pm
Are you saying you had a vision?


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on October 01, 2014, 12:44:23 am
Here's another 2 cents from me...

Yes, born-again believers backslide. However...

I do not believe for one minute these false prophets and others like rock music stars(all they are on the world stage indoctrinating everyone into satanism) were ever saved(as much as some have said so). For example - Billy Graham was groomed since way back in his college days.(Contrary to what some say how he started out strong, but slowly fell away as he got older)

Pt I'm trying to make is that while the Lord Jesus Christ is longsuffering, patient, and merciful - at the same time I just can't imagine Him allowing any of his flock to go out and deceive not only the unbelieving world, but also His own flock in all of these abominable luciferianisms and d@mnable heresies. IF Billy Graham and Rick Warren are saved, then would it really be in God's will to allow them to go out and deceive his own flock, and the rest of the world? If these rock music stars are saved, then would it be in the Lord's will to allow them to do the same?

This is also why I've all but questioned almost all of these 501c3 pastors - yes, the love of money is the root of all evil(ie-501c3 has opened the doors for these "churches" to build up earthly riches), but nonetheless where is all of the chastening in their lives? Freemasonry has all but infiltrated these denominations like the SBC et al.

John 10:27  My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Joh 10:28  And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Joh 10:29  My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Joh 10:30  I and my Father are one.


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: tennis shoe on October 01, 2014, 12:51:53 am
Are you saying you had a vision?

Not a vision. More like a long term conversation or impression. When I read about those bowls of wrath in Revelation, (KJB renders them “vials” in the English) it occured to me that that’s where those prayers were going. I was faced with the question of whether or not I wanted to add to that. This was all in the context of whether I wanted mercy or justice/vengeance.

Now I remember. My lament at the time was less about world injustice and more about vengeance for my past traumas. Just being honest with Him at the time.

I’ve spoken to people that claim to have had visions, like a movie screen that pops up in front of their face. Can’t say I’ve ever had that happen.

Edit: @BA2 - Ya. All the churches with a physical address are infiltrated and compromised IMO. But I can still occasionally find some people within those organizations that are helpful. I can also find people that are a hindrance there. It's a mix. Other than that, it's just a big social club to me at this point.


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Christian40 on October 01, 2014, 05:03:52 am

Yes, born-again believers backslide. However...

I do not believe for one minute these false prophets and others like rock music stars(all they are on the world stage indoctrinating everyone into satanism) were ever saved(as much as some have said so). For example - Billy Graham was groomed since way back in his college days.(Contrary to what some say how he started out strong, but slowly fell away as he got older)

Pt I'm trying to make is that while the Lord Jesus Christ is longsuffering, patient, and merciful - at the same time I just can't imagine Him allowing any of his flock to go out and deceive not only the unbelieving world, but also His own flock in all of these abominable luciferianisms and d@mnable heresies. IF Billy Graham and Rick Warren are saved, then would it really be in God's will to allow them to go out and deceive his own flock, and the rest of the world? If these rock music stars are saved, then would it be in the Lord's will to allow them to do the same?

This is also why I've all but questioned almost all of these 501c3 pastors - yes, the love of money is the root of all evil(ie-501c3 has opened the doors for these "churches" to build up earthly riches), but nonetheless where is all of the chastening in their lives? Freemasonry has all but infiltrated these denominations like the SBC et al.

John 10:27  My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Joh 10:28  And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Joh 10:29  My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Joh 10:30  I and my Father are one.


Good post.

Luke 16:13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
14 And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.
15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

If anything with these false ministries is that they are "highly esteemed among men" eg Joel Osteen and Joyce Meyer both of them i have heard women say how great they are and how they have "helped them" in their "christian walk" and their ministries are worldwide and they make millions of it yet they are an "abomination in the sight of God."


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: rick50 on October 01, 2014, 06:37:50 am
Good post.

Luke 16:13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
14 And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.
15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

If anything with these false ministries is that they are "highly esteemed among men" eg Joel Osteen and Joyce Meyer both of them i have heard women say how great they are and how they have "helped them" in their "christian walk" and their ministries are worldwide and they make millions of it yet they are an "abomination in the sight of God."

Me personally, I can`t handle TBN and I can`t respect ministers who live a high end lifestyle. No point in my talking about their doctrine because I see no end to the criticism I would end up throwing at them. It would be a full time job that would leave me with no time or room for anything else.

In spite of all that, my prayer is for God to be as merciful as He is able to be and to redeem as many as He can. I know in my heart that Apostate Christianity will soon be destroyed by this world and many of those souls will not understand what and why it happens.


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: rick50 on October 01, 2014, 06:49:31 am
Not a vision. More like a long term conversation or impression. When I read about those bowls of wrath in Revelation, (KJB renders them “vials” in the English) it occured to me that that’s where those prayers were going. I was faced with the question of whether or not I wanted to add to that. This was all in the context of whether I wanted mercy or justice/vengeance.

Now I remember. My lament at the time was less about world injustice and more about vengeance for my past traumas. Just being honest with Him at the time.

I’ve spoken to people that claim to have had visions, like a movie screen that pops up in front of their face. Can’t say I’ve ever had that happen.

Edit: @BA2 - Ya. All the churches with a physical address are infiltrated and compromised IMO. But I can still occasionally find some people within those organizations that are helpful. I can also find people that are a hindrance there. It's a mix. Other than that, it's just a big social club to me at this point.

I`ve longed believed that the incense prayers of Revelation 8 are the unanswered prayers of those who suffer the great tribulation. But it could be a tie in with Revelation 6:10 in which case they are prayers of all martyred saints.

To relate to your issue, the Lord is our avenger and we have to give it all over to Him to do what He wants with it. I`ve done that and it has left me with a desire for God to restrain His hand from those who have wronged me.


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on October 01, 2014, 09:21:47 am
I`ve longed believed that the incense prayers of Revelation 8 are the unanswered prayers of those who suffer the great tribulation. But it could be a tie in with Revelation 6:10 in which case they are prayers of all martyred saints.

To relate to your issue, the Lord is our avenger and we have to give it all over to Him to do what He wants with it. I`ve done that and it has left me with a desire for God to restrain His hand from those who have wronged me.


Same here - the more I read scripture, the more the Holy Spirit that indwells in me keeps telling me how these people who have wronged me as well are by and large LOST people. They don't know what they're doing - and to top it off, I was a lost man once upon a time ago, and can't tell you how many times I've (ignorantly)wronged others. Ultimately are battles are against the spirit world.

This is my big problem with the whole "anti-bullying" campaign that's going on in public schools in America - for one, they're JUST KIDS.(ie-can't tell you the number of times I've been at odds with other kids during my school days, then when we grew up, we would just LAUGH about it when we crossed paths with each other) And two, they are quietly promoting agendas(ie-infiltrating the sodomy agenda).

Titus 3:1  Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,
Tit 3:2  To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men.
Tit 3:3  For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
Tit 3:4  But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Tit 3:5  Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Tit 3:6  Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Tit 3:7  That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.



Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: tennis shoe on October 01, 2014, 12:00:46 pm
I`ve longed believed that the incense prayers of Revelation 8 are the unanswered prayers of those who suffer the great tribulation. But it could be a tie in with Revelation 6:10 in which case they are prayers of all martyred saints.

To relate to your issue, the Lord is our avenger and we have to give it all over to Him to do what He wants with it. I`ve done that and it has left me with a desire for God to restrain His hand from those who have wronged me.


When you say this, do you mean that God should restrain vengeance (eye for an eye)? Or that He should restrain blessings? Or both?

This is an open question to the forum. I'd like to see what everyone thinks about this.


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: rick50 on October 01, 2014, 01:22:02 pm
When you say this, do you mean that God should restrain vengeance (eye for an eye)? Or that He should restrain blessings? Or both?

This is an open question to the forum. I'd like to see what everyone thinks about this.

My first inclination would be to say both. LOL! But I meant vengeance.


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Christian40 on October 02, 2014, 05:21:55 am
When you say this, do you mean that God should restrain vengeance (eye for an eye)? Or that He should restrain blessings? Or both?

This is an open question to the forum. I'd like to see what everyone thinks about this.

Deuteronomy 32:35 To me belongeth vengeance, and recompence; their foot shall slide in due time: for the day of their calamity is at hand, and the things that shall come upon them make haste.

2 Thessalonians 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; 7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Romans 12:19   Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

Hebrews 10:30    For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

i think that vengeance belongs to the Lord, He punishes people however He wants, some cases are more severe than others, to be honest i dont think in my mind that this person deserves this or that person deserves that, i just think whatever the Lord wants to do with them, im glad that i dont have to punish people for wrongdoings against me because i would probably make the wrong judgment, some people need to be offended or humbled before they acknowledge their spiritual position.


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: rick50 on October 02, 2014, 06:44:11 am
Deuteronomy 32:35 To me belongeth vengeance, and recompence; their foot shall slide in due time: for the day of their calamity is at hand, and the things that shall come upon them make haste.

2 Thessalonians 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; 7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Romans 12:19   Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

Hebrews 10:30    For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

i think that vengeance belongs to the Lord, He punishes people however He wants, some cases are more severe than others, to be honest i dont think in my mind that this person deserves this or that person deserves that, i just think whatever the Lord wants to do with them, im glad that i dont have to punish people for wrongdoings against me because i would probably make the wrong judgment, some people need to be offended or humbled before they acknowledge their spiritual position.


Agreed, and I believe that to turn it over to God in your heart you have to trust Him and be satisfied that He will do what He wills. Which could mean no vengeance on your enemies. If somebody has issues with that then in my view, they have business of their own they need to do with God.

God wants to be merciful and to line up with His will then we have to want Him to be merciful. Not just say so but mean it in our hearts.


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: tennis shoe on October 02, 2014, 12:04:55 pm
Again, years ago I had a conversation with Him about forgiveness. It went something like this.

God: If someone were to mess up your order in a restaurant, would you be able to let that go?

Me: Absolutely, Lord. Maybe they had a bad day. I don’t know what they’re going through.

God: What if someone was to insult you intentionally?

Me: Yes. Same reason.

God: What if someone was to strike you intentionally for no reason? Would you be able to let that go? To forgive them?

Me: Not sure.

God: What if someone was to torture you mercilessly to the point of death? Could you forgive them?

Me: (silence)

God: I did.

My conclusion: Even forgiveness is something that I cannot do in and of myself. That is something that He would have to put in me to be able to do.

And so I have a further quandary.

I can find no reference to God Almighty torturing people. His ultimate punishment is instant death. Let’s say I was shown crimes so heinous that it borders on the unspeakable. What would I pray for? What would I say to Him?

For example:

A 12 year old girl, whose face is on a milk carton, stripped of clothing and on a stage somewhere in the US. She is being auctioned off as a sex slave. The participants are doctors, lawyers, judges, politicians in office, and foreign dignitaries.

A man, imprisoned and overseen by a medical doctor, being drowned and allowed to die for 20 seconds only to be administered an electric shock to get his heart started again. Over and over, repeatedly.

A well-paid scientist in a lab engineering a type of virus that is resistant to all known forms of treatment. He knows that this could only be used for genocide but believes in Machiavellian philosophies. “Gotta break a few eggs to make an omelette.” “It’s all for the greater good.”

A woman is being raped in broad daylight on a sidewalk in NYC. Some bystanders are recording this on their cellphones while others are quickly walking by, pretending that they don’t see it.

Meanwhile, I have demonized people taunting me with statements like, “Your God is doing absolutely nothing to stop this! He is a wimp!” This, in their mind, justifies their actions. Actions that they will continue to do.

Moreso, what if I had the opportunity to stop these things through use of force? At what point does “forgiveness” become cowardice? Is it a sin to do nothing? A sin of omission?

Is this true?

“The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing”

Or do “good men” always become evil if they take action through use of force?

Is this what God wants me to be?

(http://spiritualcompassconnection.com/images/monkeys.jpg)

Because, if so, then what's the difference between that and those bystanders in NYC?

These are tough questions that I struggle with as evil flourishes in this world. I don’t have the answers. But, perhaps, some on this forum would have some helpful insight.

As before, open questions. All responses from brothers and sisters welcome.


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on November 03, 2014, 04:20:13 pm
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-yofaLueE9ss/VFewUHkgLYI/AAAAAAAAHzE/AEmKp7rusEI/w506-h504/2Ti4-3.jpg)


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on April 06, 2015, 01:07:51 am
This is about 2 hours and 40 minutes, but it's a must listen!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRkKsEz9OOE


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Mark on April 07, 2015, 08:23:25 am
Once saved always saved

Do saved Christians who commit suicide go to the lake of fire
murder is murder,  ???

Is it a pre-trib rapture or does the church have to endure persecution during the tribulation?
pre trib  :)

This one verse alone proves that the Lord will not send judgment onto the saved. PERIOD.
Gen 18:32 And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake.

Seriously for 1 people the Lord will not cast Judgment on 1 righteous people. If he wouldn't do it for 10 people why would he do it to millions?? He wouldn't. Plane and simple. That is why there is a RAPTURE. The Lord has to remove ALL saved people. He would not send judgment on just 1 saved person. That is why we are removed before the lamb opens the scroll. At the point in history, for a brief period of time, the Earth will be with out ANY saved people. Just think on that for a moment.

The Lord would not destroy, IE: pass judgment, if there was just 1 saved person on the cities. He found 4 people and removed them. Seriously think on that! He removed 4 people and then destroyed the cities. My LORD will not send JUDGMENT on the righteous. Scripture proves this out. GOD the Father is a righteous judge. He will NOT end the judgments of revelations on SAVED people. ALL saved people have to be off the Earth for the time of Jacobs trouble to begin.   


Is it a 7 year trib or a 3.5 year one?
Seven years, no way around it.

I'll be honest, there are certain topics where both sides of the fence have equally convincing arguments and are able to point out the proper scripture, but at the same time they will have their share of errors which end up prolonging the argument for months. So I try to stray away from them.

Read the AV English Bible and all makes perfect sene. All of these heresies come from false bibles.


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on April 07, 2015, 08:47:52 am
I'm glad you brought this up, bro Mark - yeah, couldn't tell you how DECEIVED I was almost 4 years ago!

Yes, I am solidly pre-trib now! :)


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on April 16, 2015, 12:10:48 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiMq2hjscxg


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on April 16, 2015, 04:08:39 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xx50GUO11cQ


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on April 17, 2015, 09:24:28 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIGjO59M6_c


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on April 20, 2015, 01:53:53 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9DKaIVRuBs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZVaF4uiVIQ


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on April 24, 2015, 10:10:39 am
1 Peter 1:23  Being born again, not of corruptible seed, *but of* *incorruptible*, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1 John 3:9  Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for *his seed* *remaineth* in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Hebrews 10:39  But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

1 John 2:3  And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4  He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 2:5  But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzqADLLCBu0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSCZBxDuBJ0


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on April 26, 2015, 11:20:21 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_I0yZRTY_Rk


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on April 28, 2015, 12:58:16 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNbLmZjSGCU


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on May 01, 2015, 12:00:15 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6F0ATp05zQ


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on May 02, 2015, 11:36:35 am
Some reflections on the implications of repentance.  Is it just believing that Jesus is God or yielding to the truth of it in your heart?
 
It is not possible to admit Jesus is God and not to follow Him, unless by that you mean to admit he is God just like the devils.  To admit He is God and refuse to follow Him is flat out rejection, not faith in Him.  The response to follow Him is a result of the recognition that He is God.  The actual following Him is not the recognition.  The actual following Him is the fruit of repentance, or sanctification. Is there no difference between repentance, and fruit meet for repentance?  The former is a change of mind the latter is sanctification.  Otherwise, fruit meet for repentance must mean living as though you believe God is in charge, but refusing His authority over you, just like the devils do.  Fruit meet for repentance then is living like a devil, against what you know to be true.  This is absurd.

To believe that He is God is a universal idea of supremacy.  Look up "God" in the dictionary.  It means Supreme Being.  That means He gets to be in charge.  Otherwise you effectively reject that He is God.  The devils affirm the truth of it, but reject the implications.  When a man gets saved he is led of the Holy Spirit.  For anyone to have their mind changed about who Jesus is, and that change end up rejecting Him as God in the heart, is not repentance, it is not the leading of the Holy Spirit, it is rejection.  Just because the effects of genuine repentance results in a changed life, does not mean that this definition confuses sanctification.  It means that there is a Biblical difference between repentances and fruit meet for repentance, or the change of mind required by God and the resultant change of life that follows.  The heart changes when it decides who God is.  The man replaces the devil with Christ as God in his heart.  This is the only gospel way to recognize the deity of Christ.  The devils believe in God and tremble, but they do not yield to God's authority.  They know He is in charge, but have no desire to follow Him.  We do not wish to say that man gets saved by believing about the gospel, but not upon Christ. If you believe that man must go further than a devil when he believes to be saved, then you must acknowledge the true definition of repentance and it changes the heart, not just the beliefs about God.

If I change my mind about who owns me (God) it will affect my behavior (sanctification), but I did not get sanctified to get saved.  I got saved to get sanctified.  The low view of repentance does not deliver a man from the power of Satan to the power of God, does not translate a man out of the kingdom of darkness and into light, does not purify the heart by faith, or bring a man to the faith that works by love, he sows to the flesh, but will reap everlasting life contrary to the Bible.  Galatians 6:8.

Consider these thoughts and reflect upon their implications.
Love in Christ,
Pastor Dukes


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on May 09, 2015, 12:53:48 am
This Charles Finney sermon really hit close to home with me - b/c I was a false convert for years. Don't let these false teachers fool you into thinking holiness is NOT essential to salvation.

1 Thes 4:7  For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.
1Th 4:8  He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.


http://www.gospeltruth.net/1849-51Penny_Pulpit/500607pp_holiness_essentia.htm
HOLINESS ESSENTIAL TO SALVATION

A Sermon

PREACHED ON FRIDAY, JUNE 7, 1850,

BY THE REV. C. G. FINNEY,

OF THE OBERLIN COLLEGIATE INSTITUTE, AMERICA.

AT THE TABERNACLE, MOORFIELDS.

 

"And she shall bring forth a Son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus; for he shall save his people from their sins."--Matthew i. 21.
 

In speaking from these words, I design to show.--

I. THAT SALVATION FROM SIN IS THE GREAT NECESSITY OF MAN.

II. THAT JESUS HAS UNDERTAKEN THIS WORK.

III. INQUIRE WHY IT IS THAT SO MANY PERSONS FAIL OF THIS SALVATION.

 

I. That salvation from sin is the great necessity of man. This is a fact of universal observation. It is also a fact of universal consciousness. Every man is conscious of the fact that he is a sinner, and while he is a sinner he cannot be satisfied with himself, he cannot truly respect himself, he cannot have peace of mind, he cannot have the favour of God; and he ought not to have all or any of these things. In short, it is a fact of universal experience that men are sinners, and that they must be saved from sin as a condition of their being made happy, either in this world or in the future world. Men are so constituted that they cannot doubt that ultimate happiness is impossible unless they can be delivered from that which they know to be a great curse in this world, and which they also know will be their ultimate ruin, if persisted in. While men are violating their own consciences, they know that happiness is impossible. These facts are always assumed in the Bible, and their truth is declared by the universal sentiment of mankind. But I must not dwell on this thought; the text announces the fact that Jesus Christ has come into the world, and that his great BUSINESS is to save men from sin. This leads me to the second thought--

II. That Jesus has undertaken this work. "He shall save his people from their sins," therefore is his name called JESUS--the name Jesus signifying a Saviour. Now, salvation from sin is of the highest importance to mankind. The term strictly, as here used, means merely deliverance, or safety from some tremendous evil; it is often found in the Bible, and includes in it very generally, in addition to mere deliverance, the result of it--eternal happiness and enjoyment in heaven with the people of God. Thus, properly and scripturally speaking, the term salvation means deliverance, both from guilt and its consequences. In this text, the reason assigned for the name that was to be given to the child of Mary was, that he should save his people from their sins--that he should bear the particular relation of a Saviour--that he should save both from the guilt and the punishment of sin. The Bible represents him as having given himself to be the Saviour of the world, as having consecrated himself to this end, as having died and opened a way by which sinners could be saved; and that previous to this, as being in a waiting attitude to accomplish this work; as endeavouring to gain the consent of God and man to comply with the natural and necessary conditions of sinners being saved; and that now he possesses in himself all the fulness of power necessary to the accomplishment of the work--he is able to save unto the uttermost all that will come to God by him. The Bible represents Jesus as coming on this great mission, and as occupying himself exclusively with this work, and as having fully secured this end. Now, whenever persons come into sympathy with him, and seek what it is his business to give, knock at the door which it is his business TO OPEN, the Bible represents him as ready and willing to do these things for them. We now come to the inquiry--

III. Why it is that so many persons fail of this salvation. That many do fail of it, is a simple matter of fact. Now, the question is, Why do they fail? We remark, first, that many persons fail of this salvation because they have not abandoned reliance upon themselves. It is the most obvious thing in the whole world, that many persons are living not to God, but to themselves. Now, wherever this principle is MANIFESTED, it is certain that persons are not saved from sin, for what is sin but living to self and not to God; self-seeking is the very essence of sin. Now, multitudes of persons manifest that this spirit is not set aside in them, but that, on the contrary, the whole end and aim of their life is self-seeking, instead of the first and great end being the glory and honour of God. Now, a man cannot be saved unless he is justified, and he cannot be justified unless his sins are pardoned,--this must be a condition of a sinner's salvation. Salvation consists in being saved from sin; and the reason why a great many persons are not saved is, that they are unwilling to accept of salvation on such a condition,--they are unwilling to give up their sins; but if they will not be persuaded to be saved from their sins, and become sanctified,--if they will not relinquish and renounce their sin, they never can be saved. Many persons will even pray to God that he will save them, but they really do not desire that for which they ask--they do not mean what they say; to get men to consent to relinquish their sins, is the great difficulty. Now observe, if a man is saved at all he must consent to it; his will must acquiesce in the arrangement; and the will is not moved by physical force. A man must voluntarily consent to be saved, or Jesus himself cannot possibly save him. Man is a moral agent, and he is addressed by God as such, and therefore, in order to his salvation, he must voluntarily consent to relinquish sin, and have his mind brought into obedience with the law of God.

Again: Multitudes are not saved because they seek forgiveness while they do not forsake their sins. Some individuals will spend much time in praying for pardon, while they indulge themselves in sin. Again: multitudes are seeking for salvation while they neglect the natural condition of their being pardoned. While they CONTINUE in sin, indulge in a self-seeking spirit, it is naturally impossible that they can be saved. If a man should act in this way in relation to his body, every one would plainly perceive the folly of his conduct; if he should partake of things which rendered good health impossible, and yet should wonder that he did not possess the robustness of health which he desired, people would not pity, but blame him. Now, the fact is, that many persons are seeking for that which must result alone from holiness, while they are not themselves sanctified. They are seeking comfort while they refuse to be holy; thus they neglect to fulfill the natural conditions on which either comfort or salvation can be obtained. Again, many persons fail of this salvation because they are waiting for God to fulfill conditions which it is naturally impossible for him to fulfil, and which they themselves must fulfil, and which God is endeavoring to persuade and influence them to fulfil. For example--God cannot repent for them; he cannot believe for them; no, but these are the natural conditions of their salvation, and these very things Christ is persuading them to do. Now, they are waiting for God to do that which he will never do, that in fact, which he cannot do, but which he is requiring us to do for ourselves. Let me be understood. God never requires of us to perform an impossibility, nor does he accomplish that for us which we can do ourselves. Don't be shocked at this, for it is truth. Now, observe, God requires us to repent; this is an act of our own minds, and therefore he cannot do it for us. It is true that these things are spoken of sometimes as being done by God; it is said that he gives repentance, faith, and love, but he only does this in the sense of persuading and inciting our minds to the performance of these duties. Now, if anybody is seeking for God to do that which they must do themselves, they will fail of eternal life. How many are making mistakes in this matter! they are waiting for God to put repentance and faith into them, and entirely overlooking the fact of its being an exercise of their own minds. Again: Another difficulty, and another reason, why persons are not saved is this--they profess to be waiting for the Holy Spirit, while in fact they are resisting the Holy Spirit. They pretend that they are waiting for the Holy Spirit to save them and convert them: now, mark, every moment they wait they are grieving and resisting the Holy Spirit. Now, what do they mean by waiting, when they ought to be acting? From the beginning and end He is the teacher. "No man can come unto me, except the Father which sent me draw him." "They shall all be taught of the Lord." "He shall take of the things of mine and show them unto you." Now, the Bible represents the Holy Spirit in this way as a teacher, and those who do not yield when the truth is presented to them, are resisting and grieving the Spirit. You remember the words of our Saviour to the Jews, "Ye do always resist the Holy Ghost; as YOUR fathers did, so do ye."

Now, multitudes in the present day are resisting the Holy Spirit under the pretence of waiting for it. The divine influence is always waiting to save you, if you will comply with the necessary conditions; but if under any pretence you neglect your duty, you never will be saved. But I pass next to consider another great difficulty in the way of a sinner's conversion. Many are really seeking to be justified in sin. They ask God to pardon them, but they refuse to be sanctified; they seek Christ as their justification only. They cleave to their sins, they are living in their sins, and they seek to be justified rather than sanctified--indeed, they refuse to be sanctified at all. Now, this is a very common case.

Again, let me say that this class of persons really regard the gospel as a mighty system of indulgence, on a large scale. They really suppose that men are SUBJECTS of this salvation while they are living in selfish indulgence. In the very early ages of Christianity, the Antinomian spirit had crept into the Church: the doctrine of justification by faith, as opposed to justification by works, was sadly abused by many. While some of the Apostles were still living, many persons came to regard the gospel as a system of indulgence,--that men were to be justified in sin rather than be saved from sin; thus they took an entirely false view of the gospel of Christ. You will remember that the Apostle James wrote his epistle to denounce this wrong view, and to guard the Christians against abusing the doctrine of justification by faith. Some persons imagine that the Apostle rejected this doctrine altogether, yet this is not true; but his epistle being written for the purpose we have mentioned, he does not give this doctrine the prominence that Paul did.

Now, no man who lives in sin can be justified, because no man can be pardoned who lives in any form of iniquity. The Apostle tells you plainly that those who commit sin are the children of the devil, and while they are living in sin they cannot enjoy the privileges of the gospel. He does not mean that an individual cannot be a Christian who falls under the power of temptation and into occasional sin. The Apostle John also says, "Whosoever is born of God sinneth not"--"whosoever is born of God does not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin because he is born of God"--"he that committeth sin is of the devil." This is strong language, and if I should affirm so strongly the necessity of holiness, you would think I spoke harshly; but it ought to be insisted upon more than it is, that men cannot be Christians unless they are holy.

The moral law is as much binding upon Christians as it was upon those to whom it was first given. Faith without love will never save man; but let me say, that true faith is always true love. Every man who breaks the law systematically and designedly, living in violation of its precepts, is a child of the devil, and not of God. Let this be thundered in the ears of the Church and the world.

Now, it is very common for men to overlook this great truth, and fall into the worldly-mindedness and sinful practices of the those around them. Again: multitudes are not saved because they regard the gospel as an abrogation of the moral law--a virtual repeal of it. Now, the gospel does not repeal the moral law. What saith the Apostle? "Do we make void the law through faith? God forbid! Yea, we establish the law." Now, it is true that the gospel was designed to set aside the penalty of the law, upon all who should be persuaded to come back to its precepts, and yield that love and confidence which the law requires. Now, it is frequently the case, if ministers BEGIN to say anything about obedience to the law, the people call out against it as legal preaching! If they are roused up and urged to do that which the law of God requires of them, they tell you they want the gospel. Now, such people know nothing at all of the gospel! They make Christ the minister of sin! They seem to think that Christ came to justify them in their sin, instead of saving them from it.

Let me say, once more, that another reason why men are not saved from sin is, that they have really come to regard justification in sin, as a means to save them from it! In support of this monstrous idea, they will even appeal to the Scriptures. They found justification on the atonement; now, this work of Christ can never be imputed to any man in such a sense as to justify him while he remains in sin! Justification in sin is a thing impossible! Now, how can a man be pardoned and justified, before he repents and believes! It is impossible! He must be in a state of obedience to the law of God before he can be justified! The fact is, there is a very great mistake among many people on this SUBJECT. They think that they must persuade themselves that they are justified, but they are not, and never can be, till they forsake sin, and do their duty.

In the next place, multitudes make this mistake--they seek hope, rather than holiness; instead of working out their own salvation, they seek to cherish a hope that they shall be saved. Again, they seek to persuade themselves that they are safe, while they are in a state of condemnation. Those who seek salvation oftimes fail because they seek it selfishly; not so much because they abhor sin, and want holiness, as because they desire personal happiness, or personal honour, by being held up as very pure and good men, and because they seek sanctification for some selfish reason they do not get rid of their sins. Again, some individuals content themselves in sin so long as they can indulge a hope, or get others to indulge a hope for them. If they have certain feelings, which lead them to hope that all will be well with them at last, they are perfectly satisfied, and have no desire to be saved from sin.

But I cannot CONTINUE this train of observation, and will therefore conclude with some remarks.

First, no person has any right to hope for eternal life, unless he is conscious of possessing the spirit of Christ within him--unless he is free from those sinful tempers which are indulged in by wicked men--unless he is free from a self-seeking spirit of doing BUSINESS which characterizes the men of the world. How can a man in such a condition expect or hope for eternal life? How can any man suppose that he is justified before he is sanctified? I do not mean to say, that a man is not in any sense justified before he is sanctified; but, as a matter of fact, a man is not safe for eternity unless he is saved from sin. He has no right to expect to get to heaven unless the work of sanctification is going on in his soul.

Again, it is easy to see from what has been said, that many persons regard the doctrine of justification by faith, as the whole gospel. It is the gospel, in their conception of it. Now, why is this the gospel to them? Why is it good news? Why is it not good news that Christ will save them from sin? How is it that the good news of the gospel as it strikes them is the good news that will justify rather than sanctify?--that Christ is precious to them, not so much because he came to save from sin, as because he came to forgive, to die for their sins, and to justify them? Is there not something wrong in all this? Does it not show, when persons lay more stress upon justification than upon sanctification, that they are more afraid of punishment than of sin?--more afraid of the consequences of sin than of the sin itself? If they can but get rid of the penalty, the governmental consequence of sin, they are satisfied.

Again, it is certain, that where this principle takes possession of the mind, that the individual seeks much more to be pardoned than to be made holy. It is better news to him that Christ will justify him, than that Christ will save him from his sins. Talk to him about his sins; preach to him about his sins; require him to become holy; present Christ as his sanctification, and that is not the gospel! Let me say, that there are multitudes of persons who have contracted their views into that one point--that Christ has died to save men from punishment. All idea about Christ being the believer's sanctification, or that sanctification is a condition of salvation, is wholly lost sight of. There is no stress laid upon the doctrine of sanctification.

Christ is chiefly precious because he saves from wrath, much more than because he saves from sin; more because he justifies, than because he sanctifies. Now, rely upon it, that, whenever this is the case, there is a sad defect of character. What is the true spirit of the children of God? Why, it is this,-- they feel as if they must get rid of sin, at any rate. They don't want to be saved in their sins; they feel that to live in their sins is hell enough. They abhor themselves on ACCOUNT of their sins. They must get away from their sins. They would not wish to be saved at all, if they could not be saved from sin. They are ready to say, If the gospel cannot save me from sin, it is a failure, for this is my necessity.

Now, who does not know that the true Christian is more afraid of sin than of punishment? Yes, a great deal more! They abhor sin; and when they ever fall into sin, they are ready to curse themselves; and all the more because Christ is so willing to forgive them. The man in this condition of mind will never look upon the gospel as mere justification. Again: whenever the doctrine of justification comes to be more prominent in the church than sanctification, there is something wrong, there is a radical error crept into the church; there is a danger of that church losing all true idea of what the gospel is. I don't know how it is in this country, but I greatly fear that the doctrine of sanctification is kept very much in the BACKGROUND. Now, why is this? While there is so much said about justification, there is very little said about personal holiness. So much is said about a Saviour, as if the gospel was meant simply to save men from punishment.

Now, while I know that the gospel presents salvation from punishment, and the promise of eternal life through Jesus Christ, I know that its chief relation to men, is to save them from their sins--to become their sanctification. Again: the true state of men is always known by the great absorbing idea which is in their minds. A man's character is as is the end for which he lives. Now, a man who lives in any sin, any form of self-pleasing, and self-seeking, cannot be a Christian; for the true idea of the gospel is, that, for a man to be a Christian he must be devoted to God, and thoroughly withdrawn from all forms of sin and iniquity. He must be devoted to God, living for God, living for the same end that God lives; sympathizing with Christ, and with everything that is good. This is the character of every true Christian. This is the true conception of Christianity; and just in proportion as individuals approach to this standard have they a good hope of salvation, and just in proportion as they recede from this standard they fail of salvation. Again: there are a great many persons whose aim is to get peace of mind, and who are constantly crying "peace" to others, when there is no peace.

Now, let me say that there can be no real, true peace, unless all the conditions of the gospel have been complied with. You cannot have that peace of God which passeth all understanding, while you are in an unsanctified state; and, if you think so, you are deceiving yourself. Now, let me ask of you, Are you not conscious that this "peace of God" does not "rule in YOUR hearts?" If I am not greatly mistaken, there are many persons in this house who have been trying for years to make themselves happy, but who, after all, are in such a state of mind as not to know that they are pardoned, have no real confidence in their own piety; now, how is it possible that they should have peace of mind? Peace of mind results from sanctification, and this they have never obtained. Let an individual who has been making justification the great idea, be at the point of death, and does he feel happy and resigned, having a full confidence that he shall go to heaven? How often do we hear such persons exclaim under such circumstances, "I am undone, I am not prepared." Why are you not prepared? A short time ago you were indulging a comfortable hope that you were a Christian, and now you cry out in fear, lest you should lose your soul. How is this?

There is a great delusion in the minds of men on this subject. They suppose that they have a very comfortable hope, but it is in the absence of piety; and when death stares them in the face they discover that they have no confidence in religion, or any ground of hope. Again: persons who do not like to have their hopes tried, and themselves SEARCHED, do great wrong to their souls. The more hope is tried, if it be good hope, the more consoling and satisfactory will it become. The man who is seeking to be sanctified, desires to be searched that he may not be resting in any degree upon an uncertain and unsafe foundation, because he is more afraid of sin than of anything else; he is more ready to forsake sin, than anything else in the world; he would rather forego any earthly good than have anything to do with sin. Now, don't say that this is extreme, because it is a universal truth, if religion implies supreme love to God: if we supremely love any being, we shall supremely delight to please him: this is a universal characteristic of the children of God.

Now, if this be so, what shall we say of the great mass of professors, who give the highest possible evidence that self-indulgence is the chief end of their lives? They wait to be saved, not from sin, but in it. But while they live in sin they never can be saved! Before hope can be cherished, the conditions of salvation must be fulfilled: you will never be saved at all unless you are saved from sin--mind that! You must become holy in ORDER to become happy. Fulfil the conditions; become holy, and then your peace shall flow like a river. Give up your sins, give your heart to God, and rely upon it that the peace which passeth all understanding shall rule in your hearts.

Believer in Christ, the Lord hath set you apart for himself, separated you from the rest of the world; but you are only set apart as "holiness to the Lord:" this must be written plainly upon you; and if the Lord has written his name upon you you are safe, not else. And let me say to every one in this house, Don't you expect to be forgiven, don't you expect to be pardoned, unless you will consent to be separated from YOUR sins, and have the name of the Lord Jesus Christ written upon your hearts; unless your prayer is, "O Lord, write thy law upon my heart and make me holy." Receive his name in your forehead and his law in your heart, give yourself up to him, body and soul, and rely upon it, as the Lord liveth, as Jesus liveth, you shall understand what is the salvation of God. Will you do it to-night?


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on May 12, 2015, 01:21:46 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHP0S28AQ4c


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on May 18, 2015, 01:18:13 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZr4w_OMtUM


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on May 25, 2015, 01:39:59 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gUO9JVk1Fw


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on June 04, 2015, 05:57:30 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmNz2FemzmE


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on June 07, 2015, 09:53:44 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmNz2FemzmE


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Christian40 on June 08, 2015, 04:16:04 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmNz2FemzmE

Did watch this a powerful message!! i can relate as i have lost relatives too i did subscribe to his channel he says his name is "Joseph"


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on June 08, 2015, 03:41:10 pm
He doesn't use the KJB, but nonetheless he exposes this movement through and through.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYUpx2A0ACk


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on June 10, 2015, 11:45:41 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtZA0JSpZyU


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on June 15, 2015, 10:44:32 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJsb5Bthkmk


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on June 19, 2015, 11:57:46 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JWY48lX_yk


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on June 23, 2015, 06:38:14 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2qvVnDwP5I


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on July 03, 2015, 01:55:26 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APmywS5gw-c


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on August 24, 2015, 05:19:42 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AF85g1_PmzQ


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on September 19, 2015, 10:30:38 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hc0xUMFFKD0


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on October 05, 2015, 10:40:38 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxQK4wjyeVs


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: RickStudy on October 23, 2015, 06:19:04 am
But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

Ezekiel 18:24


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Mark on October 23, 2015, 07:01:07 am
But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

Ezekiel 18:24

one simple question. How many times did Jesus die for someones sins?


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: RickStudy on October 23, 2015, 07:18:37 am
Clarify who the someone is. Some believe that Jesus died once for the sins of all sinners whether they believe or not thus no one suffers in hell and all will be saved regardless, Hitler, Stalin etc all saved.

I know you don`t agree with that ideal but my point is that as the Bible says Jesus died once for the sins, all sin, including the sins of the lost. Nevertheless this fact doesn`t produce universal salvation.

I really don`t think it`s a good question and was hoping to hear more of your point of view. No tricks are necessary to get me to express mine.

Thanks for response though. Nice to see something besides a video  ;D


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: RickStudy on October 23, 2015, 07:21:21 am
Seriously you are aren`t one of those universal salvation guys are you? Surely not. I keep hoping they are right but they have never been able to pursuede me.


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: RickStudy on October 23, 2015, 07:24:55 am
You didn`t think I was a catholic? Some say they believe in multiple crucifixians. I always wanted to ask one about that but have never been able to advance a conversation far enough to make the inquiry.


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: RickStudy on October 23, 2015, 07:33:13 am
As I continue to ponder your question and forgive me for rambling on, I think it really a pretty decent thing to challenge with.

The Bible tells us that Jesus died and died once for all the worlds sin, hopefully no references are needed  8). It`s all about what it takes to get the salvation  ???


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: RickStudy on October 23, 2015, 07:58:19 am
Let`s regroup, ok I`ll bite, Jesus died once for someones sins if not everyones sins.


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: RickStudy on October 23, 2015, 09:05:06 pm
6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.


Romans 5


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on November 29, 2015, 12:57:53 am
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=11291512243
Audio Inside Link: Discipleship 101 - Eternal Security: Are We Eternally Secure?
Series:  STBC Radio  · 40 of 40
11/29/2015 (SUN)


Title: Re: Once saved always saved (OSAS)
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on December 17, 2015, 12:08:01 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_p_p9_jNFj8