End Times and Current Events

General Category => Emergent church => Topic started by: Elijah on February 25, 2012, 02:32:23 pm



Title: Mark Driscoll & the Mars Hill church
Post by: Elijah on February 25, 2012, 02:32:23 pm
I live in Seattle & a few of my friends go to neo-calvinist Mars Hill Church, so I thought I'd do a little research as to WHY Driscoll is so controversial... according to my MHC friends, it is because of his "radical" stance against homosexuality & for biblical gender roles, which is criticized by Liberals & feminists for being "too conservative"... yet his assertive discussion of sex within a marriage tends to upset the conservative christians for being "too liberal"... I did my own research and the more I look into this guy, the more I think about the "leaven of the Pharisees"... where I agree with 95% of what he says, but the other 5% is poison...! 

This goes well beyond his yoking up with Freemasons like Robert Schuller or promoting  CFR stooges like Rick Warren... this plunges deep into dangerous territory like his unbiblical form of spiritual warfare by talking to the demons to get information from them, or his mind-control techniques to keep his followers in line (i.e. "I see things" or "I'll break their noses!")... Driscoll is also promoting a form of Catholic Mysticism, through "Contemplative Prayer".  I believe that the "emergent church movement" is the main way that the Jesuits will bring the various New Evengelical and Protestant groups back into the Catholic Church fold by promoting these New Age forms of "white" Witchcraft to the new generation of cultural christians...

Driscoll claims that Jesus shows him things in his mind like a TV ("I see things") in his video series on "spiritual warfare", of seeing in his mind's eye cases of adultery & domestic violence & child abuse of some of his congregates, and when the victim doesn't remember the incident of incest,  then supposedly "jesus" tells Mark to tell them to confront their abuser in order to verify his "gift" of "spiritual discernment" ... When the abuser asked "how did you know, you were too young?", they said "Mark said so"...  end of story...
Honestly, does that sound like something that would actually happen...?

Granted there's no way to verify these outrageous claims, but sure enough, folks in that church must wonder if "jesus" isn't showing Mark their secret sins as well, & then they will be confronted about it or have to sign a Church Discipline Contract or something...!  Even if it were true, it is invasive and abusive to accuse someone of past victimizations like that, just because you are in a position of authority and have a "gift"... These are marks of a cult leader... megalomania, fixation on sex, joking threats of violence against "elders" that don't toe the line, and convincing the flock that he can "read their mail" of their unconfessed sins or victimizations...

Mark Driscoll was raised Catholic, then was part of the Emergent Church Movement, before settling into his "Culturally Liberal & Theologically Conservative" mode... It is a "cult of personality" phenomena... They spend a lot of energy letting everyone know that they are "All About Jesus"... yet at the end of the day, it seems more about Mark Driscoll and the "Mars Hill" brand than about Christ... When MHC first got off the ground, Mark preached that there would be accountability from the leadership to the congregation, yet in 2007, they restructured the power structure of MHC to make Mark & 4 "elders" to have "lifetime tenure", and they could not be held accountable anymore... two of the original elders voiced their concerns about this change, and they were quickly sacked and ex-communicated... Then Mark preached that he should "break the noses" of anyone who dared to challenge HIS authority...!   

Then there is the most recent storm that came out when one of the members confessed to his "Community Group" leader that he cheated on his fiance, and despite his voluntary confession of repentance, Andrew was accused by the leadership of not actually being repentant, and the ensuing control-freak tactics and extreme disciplinary measures remind me of what the Scientology Cult, Marxist re-education camps, and Secret Society Fraternities do to their own members... (i.e. have to write lists of ALL of their lifetime of sexual sins to be kept on file, exposure of their "dirty laundry" to the rest of their Community Group as retribution for non-compliance, and then "shunning" the transgressor by not allowing any of the church members to make any contact with them on their own time...!) 
Sounds like the Catholic Church during the Dark Ages..!

Here are three written testimonies of those who chose to leave MHC on their own accord...
http://twocleareyes.blogspot.com/2012/01/mars-hill-altar-of-doctrin...
http://thewartburgwatch.com/2012/01/25/mark-driscolls-mars-hill-a-t...
http://matthewpaulturner.net/jesus-needs-new-pr/mark-driscolls-chur...

In Mark's own words...
"I see things"    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVyFyauE4ig
Shut up and do what you're told
Beating up your own leaders
How to keep my elders in line and obedient
http://pastormark.tv/2011/11/07/16-things-i-look-for-in-a-preacher

The rest of this post is from the following website:
www.onewayofjesus.com/1/post/2011/03/mark-driscoll-promoter-of-cont...
Though Mark Driscoll has denounced the Emergent Church Movement and stated that it is unbiblical (http://www.marshillchurch.org/audio/driscoll_sebts_092107.mp3), he still embraces "Contemplative prayer". See "Christian Post Says Mark Driscoll 'Ditches' Emergent but Evidence Proves Otherwise" (http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/?p=2009).

This is huge right now with many prominent evangelicals (especially those in the emerging, purpose-driven and seeker-sensitive movements) like Pastor Rick Warren, who in his book "The Purpose-Driven Life" positively quotes no less than nine mystics including Gary Thomas (Sacred Pathways) (http://www.onewayofjesus.com/rick-warren-and-the-purpose-driven---c...) and even popular Pastor Tim Keller of Redeemer Presbyterian Church has been recommending Roman Catholic mysticism (http://apprising.org/2011/01/27/tim-keller-recommending-roman-catho...). His church's website has an article by Jan Johnson titled "Meditation: Not So Mysterious - Two ways to move Scripture off the page and into your life" (http://www.redeemer.com/connect/prayer/prayer_johnson_article.html) which promotes the book Spiritual Exercises by Ignatius Loyola, founder of the Jesuits (see http://www.thebereancall.org/node/1796 andhttp://www.onewayofjesus.com/attacks-on-protestant-christians--oath...). This same article on Redeemer Presbyterian's website also promotes the Catholic mystical practice of Lectio Divina.

More fun facts about the "Driscoll Inferno"...
http://marshillrefuge.blogspot.com/
http://thewartburgwatch.com/
http://www.yelp.com/biz/mars-hill-church-seattle

Pastor Mark has a history of dishonesty.
In the Mars Hill Doctrine series, he used a fake quote to try to smear atheists.http://driscontinuity.tumblr.com/post/15231214839/cant-find-a-quote...
He can’t remember if God audibly spoke to him in Idaho or Washington:http://driscontinuity.tumblr.com/post/14297925997/washington-or-idaho
He tried to blame Ted Haggard’s wife for his actions, then later denied ever saying anything about the Haggards: http://driscontinuity.tumblr.com/post/16120606145/pastor-mark-lies-...

My apologies if some of the hyperlinks didn't work...


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Marsh ill church
Post by: Mark on July 08, 2012, 12:00:08 pm
Mars Hill Church Outlines What It Takes to Be a Christian, Member

Mars Hill Church in Seattle is preparing for another growth spurt this fall. Needing all the help it can get, the megachurch is currently recruiting volunteers who are genuine Christians to help care for the expanding congregation.
To make sure these lay leaders are in fact Christian, Mars Hill founding pastor Mark Driscoll is currently preaching on what it means to be a Christian and what the Church is.

"Many churches allow anyone and everyone to become a member of the church. They get to vote on things. They get to lead ministries. They get to teach others. We do want to welcome everyone, but we reserve official membership of the church for those who know and love Jesus," Driscoll said in his message Sunday.

"We firmly believe unless it's about Jesus and the Holy Spirit shows up, it's not Christian."

The difference between non-Christians and Christians is that while the former may appreciate and admire the life of Jesus, Christians experience the power of Jesus in their lives, he explained.

Part of that experience includes repentance.

Follow us

Mars Hill Church drew controversy earlier this year over its strict membership and church discipline process. A number of blogs and a letter by a pastor at Mars Hill revealed what some considered harsh discipline tactics involving member of the church who cheated on his fiancée and who also had premarital sexual relations with his fiancée.

Mars Hill responded to the controversy in February, stating, "Because we take our responsibility as leaders seriously and wish to steward it well, we make the process clear in our membership process and only administer church discipline for members who understand what we believe and have agreed to undergo the process in the regrettable case it becomes necessary."

The church clarified that discipline is handled at a local level and does not involve central leadership such as Driscoll. It also stated that it would review current church discipline cases to make sure "all our local leaders are operating within the spirit of love intended to be present in our existing policies."

The Seattle-based megachurch is experiencing rapid growth, drawing more than 11,000 attendees every week to 14 locations in four states. Last year, 1,135 people were baptized and Driscoll called it the most fruitful year they've had in 15 years of history. Excited for the ministry, Driscoll chose to "hand off" other responsibilities, such as leading the Acts 29 church planters network, to focus on the church.

As Mars Hill continues to see growth, Driscoll is making very clear what it takes to be a member and leader at the church.

The church, he preached, consists of "regenerated church members." And holiness is a big part of that, he noted.

"f you're a Christian, we want to help you walk in holiness. We want to help you walk away from sin. We want to help you walk toward Jesus. Now, we don't want to be controlling. There are far too many people, we could never control. But we do want to influence you to submit to the Scriptures, to be filled with the Holy Spirit, and to pursue holiness by the grace of God."

The Reformed pastor continued, "Some churches will say, 'Well, come as you are.' Here's how we say it, 'Come as you are, meet Jesus, and change forever.' Everyone is welcome to come, but once you meet Jesus, you start to change. You start to hate sin and pursue holiness. You stop rebelling, you start obeying. Your nature changes, your desires change, your life changes.

"Let me put it this way, any church that doesn't encourage its people toward holiness, in love, in community, doesn't really love the people."

Driscoll expressed how strict they are when it comes to those serving in the church, stating that they "need to guard the gate of membership."

"[A]s Jesus builds his church you may be one of those bricks that he lays down to build his church. But you need to be qualified, so we're looking at your doctrine, what do you believe. We're looking at your lifestyle, how do you live. We want to know that you're a member of the church, and that you love the people," he stated.

"What we're looking for is people who love Jesus who have exemplary lives. Not perfect, but humble people, growing in the grace of God, who really love the church."

Driscoll is scheduled continue his "Jesus Loves His Church" series for another nine weeks. He plans to discuss the qualifications for leadership offices such as elders, pastors and deacons, and the sacraments such as baptism, among other things.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/mars-hill-church-outlines-what-it-takes-to-be-a-christian-member-77802/


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Marsh ill church
Post by: Kilika on July 09, 2012, 02:33:07 am
Quote
...As Mars Hill continues to see growth, Driscoll is making very clear what it takes to be a member and leader at the church.

The church, he preached, consists of "regenerated church members." And holiness is a big part of that, he noted.

"f you're a Christian, we want to help you walk in holiness. We want to help you walk away from sin. We want to help you walk toward Jesus...

As if God needs help.

Clearly a "works" doctrine, and not of faith. It's designed to make the people look to the "church elders" for guidance instead of pointing them to Jesus the Word, all for the love of money.

25   Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. 
26   [Thou] blind Pharisee, cleanse first that [which is] within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
Matthew 23:25,26 (KJB)


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Marsh ill church
Post by: Mark on October 20, 2013, 07:39:25 am
Mark Driscoll 'Crashes' John MacArthur's Strange Fire Conference? (PHOTOS) And then tells lies about it

Mark Driscoll, pastor of Mars Hill Church in Washington state, made his way Friday to Pastor John MacArthur's Strange Fire conference in California to hand out copies of his new book, A Call to Resurgence: Will Christianity Have a Funeral or a Future? and presumably share his views on the charismatic gifts of the Holy Spirit — which the Strange Fire conference challenges.

Driscoll shared Thursday on his Resurgence.com blog in a post titled "IS THE TRINITY FATHER, SON, AND HOLY BIBLE?" that he would be in California for a specific engagement, and was aware of Pastor MacArthur's Strange Fire conference.

"This week I am in the land of fruits and nuts — sunny California — for Act Like Men in Long Beach. Rumor has it there is a conference not far away dealing with the person and work of the Holy Spirit," writes Driscoll in his post.

In the blog post, Driscoll writes, "Various tribes approach the Holy Spirit differently because each emphasizes a different aspect of his work."

Driscoll has said in a previous sermon that his church believes in speaking in tongues, a charismatic gift of the Holy Spirit, according to the Bible. MacArthur, on the other hand, is a cessationist who believes that such charismatic gifts are no longer made available by the Holy Spirit to modern Christians.

Driscoll has posted photos of himself talking with attendees at MacArthur's Strange Fire conference on Friday, where he did indeed hand out copies of his new book — until they were reportedly seized by members of the Strange Fire security team.

According to Mike Riccardi, the local outreach pastor at Grace Community Church in Los Angeles who was apparently in attendance at the Strange Fire conference, Driscoll was untrutful about his books being confiscated by security.

He wrote on Facebook:

    Mark Driscoll openly lies about what happened at his publicity stunt at Strange Fire.

    The director of the conference explained to Driscoll that those who are distributing books have gone through an extensive process and that they'd like him not to distribute them. After continuing to direct attendees to take the books, security offered to help him take the books back to his car. Driscoll insisted multiple times, "No, they're my gift to Grace Church. I want you to have them." After insisting that security not help him with the books back to the car, the conference director accepted the gift and brought them to GCC offices.

    That's what happened. Driscoll's reporting of it in such a way is nothing short of lying, absolutely shameful, and unbefitting of one who would take upon himself the calling of preaching the Truth.

One commenter reading Riccardi's Facebook post suggested that the Mars Hill Church pastor had only been joking, writing: "To be clear, I am not a fan of Driscoll and have watched the entire live stream this week. Is it possible that Driscoll's Instagram/Tweet was a "joke", albeit a poor one?"

rest: http://www.christianpost.com/buzzvine/mark-driscoll-crashes-john-macarthurs-strange-fire-conference-photos-106976/
 


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Marsh ill church
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on October 20, 2013, 09:10:46 am
Sadly, I've heard a number of modern-day church pastors endorse this heretic.


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Marsh ill church
Post by: Mark on October 22, 2013, 09:26:48 am
Driscoll is a new-age demon possed nut job that has familiar spirits and revel in the fact that he is going against the Lord. Also notice his Micky Mouse Tshirt...

http://www.worldviewweekend.com/ebook/rth/index.php?vid=footnote-581&s=ebook



Brannon Howse
Aired Monday, October 21

Justin Peters joins Brannon today to talk about being a keynote speaker at the Strange Fire conference that is making national and international news. One report is that last week the Strange Fire conference was the number one tweeted item on Twitter. Pastor Mark Driscoll of Seattle showed up at the conference and reports are that he wanted to pass out his book that was opposite from the views being taught at the conference. Driscoll then claimed his books were confiscated. Conference hosts and attendees and security that witnessed the encounter are saying that Driscoll is not being honest. Why was James McDonald with Driscoll for this stunt? Hear the shocking audio of Driscoll claiming to have visions of things that have happen to people in the past. Just what is the source of these visions that Driscoll is receiving? Is Driscoll involved in mysticism? We take your calls.

 
Click here to download the MP3
http://media.worldviewweekend.com/sites/default/files_wvw.com/audio_legacy/b2933a46d71c8808b8f2e4672368d58a5885ed7d70eee560f11be66aea2a9127.mp3


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Marsh ill church
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on October 22, 2013, 10:30:12 am
3 years ago I crossed paths with a pastor who seemed surprisingly discerning on a number of issues - the evils of Catholicism, Freemasonry, Islam, Mormonism, Christian Science, etc. Pretty much one of the few pastors nowdays who are brave enough to warn his pews about it.

HOWEVER - considering this, it was a surprise to hear he's a big follower of Mark Driscoll. I don't know why anyone would be a follower of someone who's foul mouthed and heretical.


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Marsh ill church
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on October 31, 2013, 10:42:04 pm
So you have John MacArthur exposing Mark Driscoll, the Charismatic Movement, and the Emergent Church. But en yet he endorses the idea that you can get saved even if you take the mark of the beast?

If anything, everything in Churchianity has become a dog and pony, puppet show.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/mark-driscoll-invites-john-macarthur-to-resurgence-conference-asks-for-face-to-face-meeting-107447/
Mark Driscoll Invites John MacArthur to Resurgence Conference, Asks for Face-to-Face Meeting
10/26/13

In perhaps what could be considered a promotional game of "book wars," or simply a dispute over theological differences, megachurch pastor Mark Driscoll has invited Grace For You ministry leader and pastor John MacArthur to the upcoming Resurgence event via an open letter.

Both MacArthur's Strange Fire 3-day conference held last week in Sun Valley, Calif., and Driscoll's Resurgence conference in Seattle planned for Nov. 5-6, center around the themes of the two pastors new books — MacArthur's Strange Fire: The Danger of Offending the Holy Spirit With Counterfeit Worship and Driscoll's A Call to Resurgence: Will Christianity Have a Funeral or a Future?

While many in the Christian community were buzzing over MacArthur's position against the Charismatic movement, which he shared last week at his conference, Driscoll made an unauthorized impromptu book signing at MacArthur's Strange Fire event last Friday.

Shortly after beginning the informal book signing near the back of the church property where the conference was held, Driscoll was told he could no longer pass out the books. A church official helping with the Strange Fire conference security told The Christian Post later that MacArthur and his staff had no problem with Driscoll's appearance at the event, they were just enforcing standard conference proceedure in allowing only pre-approved material.

However, the deeper controversy surrounding the discussion about the person and work of the Holy Spirit is something Driscoll wants to publicly discuss with MacArthur. In a section of his open letter invitation to MacArthur, under the sub-headline "Two Books, God's Timing," Driscoll writes:

Despite taking numerous shots from you over the years (some of which I deserved, as I had erred and needed to publicly repent and grow by the Spirit's grace), I have never responded publicly with anything negative regarding you.

Pastor John, though we've never met, I think I know enough about you to assume that you and I both know that our names don't really matter much, but that the name of God the Holy Spirit matters greatly.

With your Strange Fire conference and book you are, insofar as I can tell, pressing for a conversation among God's people about the person and work of the Holy Spirit. I would agree with you that error and excess are often perpetrated, tragically, in the name of the Holy Spirit. This grieves him deeply.

At the same time, like many, I also think that, since the majority of Christians worldwide are not cessationists (believing that some gifts of the Spirit have ceased), it is unreasonable and unhelpful to broad brush faithful brothers and sisters in Christ along with those who may not be faithful or may not even be brothers and sisters in Christ.

Curiously, we've been thinking about some of the same things. In God's providence, your book, "Strange Fire," and my book, "A Call To Resurgence," are coming out within a week of one another. In our respective books, we offer very different visions for what faithful, biblical Christianity should look like in light of a culture increasingly opposed to biblical truth. I am convinced there is a more biblically faithful alternative than tribalism and cessationism.

In "A Call To Resurgence" I lay out the way that culture has changed, and how Bible-believing, Jesus-loving, mission-serving Christians have quickly become an opposed minority. I then explain the cultural trends that have contributed to this shift, and also how tribalism has hurt the Church, as tribal leaders have their own tribes, tribal conferences, and tribal wars with other tribes, which causes us to talk about one another rather than with one another.

I then explain how important it is for us to rightly define our borders: who is in and who is out when it comes to essential Christian doctrines. I discuss the Holy Spirit, how he empowers Jesus' people for Jesus' mission—as he did Jesus—and how sad it is that we wrongly divide over the Spirit's person. This can grieve and quench the Spirit, which of course are two things the Bible he wrote condemns.

From there, I present repentance as something we must preach and practice regularly if we are to be faithful to the gospel of Jesus Christ. The book ends with a call to mission and practical ways for churches to be faithful to Scripture and fruitful in culture. The book's appendix includes more details on tribes and movements, as well as some warnings for tribal "chiefs" like you and me.

Since I left half a box of "A Call To Resurgence" books at your church, you should easily be able to find one to read. And I will be reading "Strange Fire" once it releases so as to be fair in seeking to understand your vision for what is wrong and what needs to happen to get things right in the church.


Driscoll "formally" invites MacArthur to the Resurgence Conference in the letter, stating that he will pay for his travel, give an honorarium of MacArthur's choice, and cover the travel costs of his pastoral staff as well. In the letter, he then gives five time slots during the conference to choose from where a discussion between the two pastors could take place.

Then he adds, "Finally, I have spoken with Dr. Wayne Grudem, who has taught for both of us. If you would prefer to sit down with him instead of me at our Resurgence Conference, he has graciously agreed and would be happy to have a pleasant and polite public conversation with you about the person and work of God the Holy Spirit for one of the main sessions."


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Marsh ill church
Post by: Mark on November 26, 2013, 05:04:45 pm
Mark Driscoll Accused of Lying and Plagiarism

 In a post reflecting on the negative impact that the culture of celebrity is having on the evangelical church, Carl Trueman raised the question: Who dares to ask well-known leaders hard questions anymore?

Christian radio host, Janet Mefferd, dared to do so in her recent interview with Mark Driscoll. The interview, which had been set up at the request of Mark Driscoll’s public relations team, is causing more than a few ripples of controversy.

Pointing to evidence both in video and in print, she asked the well-known author and pastor of Mars Hill Church in Seattle how certain incidences could be anything other than matters of lying and plagiarism. Mefferd’s question about lying had to do with a tweet that Driscoll sent at a conference he visited. The tweet contradicted video footage of an exchange between Driscoll and the head of security for the conference. (See below.) The question about plagiarism arose when Janet told Mark that as she prepared for the interview she read his latest book A Call to Resurgence.

Plagiarizing Peter Jones?
In Driscoll's book, she noted 14 pages of ideas and concepts developed by Dr. Peter Jones, a friend of Mefferd’s with whose work she is intimately acquainted. During the interview, Mefferd wondered aloud how 14 pages without proper citation could be a mere oversight on the part of Driscoll. Mark fired back with accusations that Janet was being rude and unkind. The publisher, Tyndale, has since issued the following statement (via Jonathan Merritt, Religion News Service) regarding the allegations:

Tyndale House Publishers was provided a recording of the show by representatives of Pastor Driscoll. A number of people at Tyndale reviewed the tape and were stunned, not only by the accusations, but by the belligerent tone of Ms. Mefferd’s questioning. When Ms. Mefferd asked Pastor Driscoll her first question to accuse him of plagiarism, she did not invoke Peter Jones’s name. The first person that Pastor Driscoll credited in his response was Mr. Jones. Pastor Driscoll also credits Mr. Jones in the section that Janet refers to in Mark’s book, A Call to Resurgence.

Tyndale has taken immediate steps as in the process of reviewing the section of Pastor Driscoll’s book that has been called into question. Pastor Driscoll has also reached out to Mr. Jones and we expect to be able to release some information on his reaction to the interview very soon.

Lying at John MacArthur’s Strange Fire Conference?
According to Mark Driscoll, he was simply giving away his books at John MacArthur’s Strange Fire Conference because he happened to be in the general area at the same time. The conference organizers came to Mark and explained that other book distributors on the campus had to go through proper channels weeks in advance to take part in the event. Mark had not done this. Instead, he had self-authorized his visit to the campus of Grace Community Church where thousands of conference attendees were gathered. The conference organizers exercised their prerogative to view Mark’s visit as an unwelcome distraction, and Mark’s books would need to go back to his car.

This video clip shows that the head of security for Grace Community Church was getting ready to take his books back to Mark’s car. But then Mark insisted, “I’d like to give them as a gift to Grace.”

As Mark departed the campus, he tweeted “Security confiscated my books.” #strangefire

(http://media.salemwebnetwork.com/cms/CW/8631-Twitter%20_%20PastorMark_%20Security%20confiscated%20my%20books.jpg)

 Star Power vs. the Power of God’s Word

According to Carl Trueman, the real issue appears to be star power vs. the power of basic New Testament ethics. He laments:

“The fan base and those with a vested interest in Driscoll's reputation rally around their hero while excoriating Janet Mefferd. In so doing, they ironically demonstrate why shows such as Janet Mefferd's can be so very important: if the conservative evangelical world continues to be increasingly dominated by one or two huge media-style organizations, the conversation will be corralled and controlled, the hard questions will not be asked, and the leaders of such organizations and those over whom they choose to extend their patronage will not be held to account.”

What do you think? By asking hard questions, are journalists exercising a kind of unwarranted authority over pastors and Christian authors? Was Janet Mefferd’s interview out of line? Are some Christians above the authority of basic New Testament ethics?

http://www.crosswalk.com/blogs/christian-trends/mark-driscoll-accused-of-lying-and-plagiarism.html?utm


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Marsh ill church
Post by: Mark on November 26, 2013, 05:05:14 pm
Janet's Blog
Plagiarism? Examine for Yourself


On Nov. 21, I conducted an interview with Mars Hill Church Pastor Mark Driscoll. During the course of the interview, I questioned Pastor Driscoll about two sections of his book, “A Call to Resurgence,” which neglected to contain any quotes, detailed footnotes or attribution for his reproduction of another scholar’s thoughts and insights. The passages in question are on pages 38-47 and pages 185-189 of Pastor Driscoll’s book. Those pages of material all borrow from the original material of Dr. Peter Jones, cited here in his books, “Gospel Truth and Pagan Lies” and “One or Two: Seeing a World of Difference.”

Today, we also revealed that Pastor Driscoll has lifted material from another source — word for word — in another of his books, “Trial: 8 Witnesses From 1&2 Peter.” This was a book published in 2009 by Mars Hill Church. On pages 7 and 8, Driscoll lifts and publishes, under his own name, an entire section from “1 Peter,” New Bible Commentary: 21st Century Edition, Ed. D. A. Carson, 4th ed. (Downers Grove, Ill.: Inter-Varsity Press, 1994), p. 1370.

MATERIAL SCREENSHOTS HERE

On Nov. 23, Pastor Driscoll posted an article on his website, entitled “We Even Lie About Our Lying.” In that article, he writes the following: “Deception is where we twist the truth into a weapon for harm and destruction. Cheating in school. Half-truths on a resume. Falsifying reports at work. Double-billing clients. And, pastors are notorious for ‘borrowing’ material. All of us are guilty of deception to some degree. Its prevalence, however, does not change the fact that deception is a demonic, satanic issue.” http://marshill.com/2013/11/23/we-even-lie-about-our-lying

It is evident from this article and from his own sermons and website material that Pastor Driscoll understands the seriousness of committing plagiarism.

Scripture is clear that Christians are to be holy, exhibiting the highest standards of ethics, integrity and morality in obedience to our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. There is an even higher standard of conduct expected for Christian pastors, as Scripture clearly says they must be “above reproach.” (I Timothy 3:2, Titus 1:6) Plagiarism is a significant ethical breach that has ended the careers of academics and journalists alike, and especially in view of our calling before God to be upright and godly, Christians should not dismiss such charges lightly.

Since many listeners have asked for the evidence of our claims, we have compiled 27 pages of material for public investigation. It is our hope that people will examine the evidence and determine whether or not these charges of plagiarism are true.

“But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; for it is written: ‘Be holy, because I am holy.’” (I Peter 1:15-16)

For the glory of God,
Janet

http://www.janetmefferd.com/plagiarism-examine/


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Marsh ill church
Post by: Mark on November 26, 2013, 05:07:54 pm
Janet Mefferd Show-11/21/2013

November 21, 2013 by Janet Mefferd Show 
Hour 2- Janet talks with Mark Driscoll from Mars Hill Church.


http://media.townhallstore.com/jm/rs/jm_rs_20131121-2_Thu_4bb9aa5b-b79d-4f32-88cc-1ff0402e076e_radio-show_Hi.mp3



http://www.janetmefferdpremium.com/


Janet Mefferd Show-11/26/2013
Hour 2- Janet discusses whether or not Mars Hill Church Pastor Mark Driscoll is guilty of plagiarism.

http://media.townhallstore.com/jm/rs/jm_rs_20131126-2_Tue_85e2bd33-9552-48b9-a97c-d39a9b62d0ac_radio-show_Hi.mp3


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Marsh ill church
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on November 26, 2013, 05:22:27 pm
Quote
On Nov. 23, Pastor Driscoll posted an article on his website, entitled “We Even Lie About Our Lying.” In that article, he writes the following: “Deception is where we twist the truth into a weapon for harm and destruction. Cheating in school. Half-truths on a resume. Falsifying reports at work. Double-billing clients. And, pastors are notorious for ‘borrowing’ material. All of us are guilty of deception to some degree. Its prevalence, however, does not change the fact that deception is a demonic, satanic issue.”

That's b/c the modern-day church pastor does a lot of things wrong to begin with - using corrupt bible versions, being "lords" over the flocks, paying more attention to funding $$ to their church buildings, attending to other activities that have nothing to do with their churches, etc, etc.


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Marsh ill church
Post by: Kilika on November 27, 2013, 04:11:40 am
Quote
And, pastors are notorious for ‘borrowing’ material.

He says that as if it's common among "pastors". By "borrowing", I assume he means the borrowing of sermon material? Like I've said in the past, how can one who is moved by the Spirit write what to preach days before he actually preaches the sermon? That's not how the Spirit works. The Spirit works " in that hour", and how the Spirit wants to act, not how the preacher wants.


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Marsh ill church
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on November 27, 2013, 10:15:51 am
He says that as if it's common among "pastors". By "borrowing", I assume he means the borrowing of sermon material? Like I've said in the past, how can one who is moved by the Spirit write what to preach days before he actually preaches the sermon? That's not how the Spirit works. The Spirit works " in that hour", and how the Spirit wants to act, not how the preacher wants.

You also don't see this in any of these modern-day churches...

1The 5:27  I charge you by the Lord that this epistle be read unto all the holy brethren.


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Marsh ill church
Post by: Mark on December 02, 2013, 11:25:50 am
Flunking Mark Driscoll for Plagiarism

Mega-church pastor Mark Driscoll just can’t seem to avoid controversy. He’s crass and brash, and he says outrageous things. He’s always making some Christian somewhere uncomfortable. This time, however, it’s not about the words that he’s said. It’s that he’s claimed the words that other people have said.
 
On November 21, Janet Mefferd, a radio host, accused Driscoll of plagiarism. She pointed out that passages from his new book, A Call to Resurgence: Will Christianity Have a Funeral or a Future?, reproduce ideas from a book by Peter Jones published in 1999, Gospel Truth/Pagan Lies: Can You Tell the Difference? Driscoll blew off her assertion. Mefferd has uploaded a comparison of the similar passages, along with some other suspect passages, here.
 
If I had come across the Call to Resurgence passage, I’d have been concerned about the lack of citation, but I might have just shrugged it off as ineptitude.
 
Some of the other evidence that Mefferd found is more damning. In a book on First and Second Peter published by Mars Hill Church, Driscoll lifts whole paragraphs almost word-for-word from the entry on First Peter in the New Bible Commentary, published by IVP in 1994. These passages are at the end of the previous link, and Mefferd provides additional passages here.
 
I’m a university professor. I have no tolerance for this kind of nonsense. I’ve failed students for less flagrant plagiarism. So, it’s my duty, as a member of my professing profession, to give Driscoll an “F.”
 
Mark Driscoll, you have failed.
 
I’ve dealt with a number of plagiarists, and it seems to me that plagiarism stems from two issues. I’ll let you decide which problem Driscoll suffers from, because there obviously is a problem.
 
1. Laziness. Writing is hard work, so some writers don’t want to do it right. Laziness also leads to procrastination. Getting behind schedule causes writers to cut corners and plagiarize.
 
2. Ignorance. I don’t mean ignorance of the conventions of proper citation. Everyone knows not to steal other people’s words. I mean ignorance of the topic. Sometimes people plagiarize because they are incompetent. They don’t know enough about their topic to ask interesting questions and provide interesting answers. Thus they must regurgitate what someone else has done. Becoming competent would take too much work (see reason one), and admitting incompetence would be embarrassing.
 
Unfortunately, this kind of thing is pretty common in Christian publishing. I remember when I was in seminary I came across a couple of paragraphs in a new commentary that had been lifted word-for-word from a very old commentary. I told my professor about it, and he shook his head sadly. He said, “I know that author. I can’t believe he did that.” We didn’t have blogs back then. It was much more difficult to “out” the plagiarists.
 
Of course, perhaps Driscoll isn’t a plagiarist. Maybe he employed a ghostwriter who is a plagiarist. It’d be convenient to have a scapegoat right now. But even if it was his ghostwriter, I’ll still fail him because we university professors don’t actually approve of ghostwriting. I know it’s typical in Christian publishing, but it’s still lying. Ghostwriting is lying, and plagiarism is stealing, and there seems to be a lot of it going around.
 
I’m sorry, Pastor Mark, but I don’t give extra credit. You’ll be stuck with the grade you’ve earned on this one.

http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/11/29/flunking-mark-driscoll-for-plagiarism/?utm


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Marsh ill church
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on December 11, 2013, 07:14:02 pm
http://www.ephesians511blog.blogspot.com/2013/12/the-evangelical-industrial-complex.html
12/10/13
The Evangelical Industrial Complex Admitted By Ingrid Schlueter

The Evangelical Industrial Complex

Admitted by Ingrid Schlueter

-It's as though a "Machine" insider spilled the beans, was threatened by "The Machine", and found where "The Machine" line is-


Ingrid Schlueter quote -

“I was a part-time, topic producer for Janet Mefferd until yesterday when I resigned over this situation. All I can share is that there is an evangelical celebrity machine that is more powerful than anyone realizes. You may not go up against the machine. That is all. Mark Driscoll clearly plagiarized and those who could have underscored the seriousness of it and demanded accountability did not. That is the reality of the evangelical industrial complex.”

Before we say anything about the above quote we just want to say we don’t endorse anyone mentioned in this post because we don’t endorse anyone as a policy. We don’t seek endorsements either.

Having said that, we want to applaud Ingrid Schlueter for saying what she said, for someone who is VERY CLOSE or ACTUALLY IN “The Machine”, that took guts to say that. We pray Ingrid gets as far away from “The Machine” as she can.

The original above quote was removed right after it had been posted. It pertains to the Mark Driscoll plagiarism issue.

Of course we already know about “The Merchandising Church Machine” or  as Ingrid said, the "Evangelical Celebrity Machine" or “The Evangelical Industrial Complex”.

It’s all about the “love of money” which is “the root of all evil”.

1 Timothy 6:9-10 – “But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.

10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.”

The Greek root word for the word “love” in 1 Timothy 6:10 is “philos” which means “a friend”.

A general rule of thumb we have discovered for anyone to consider is –

The more popular the person, the more they are in “The Machine” and the more they will defend others in “The Machine”.


These people may have started out with the best of intentions but they ended up on the wrong path.

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Yv0v-T9VcYE/Uqf8HBjxHqI/AAAAAAAAJ68/SaRhov5Z5Kg/s1600/POST12102013B.jpg)

People get caught up in the popularity, fans tell them how great they are which feeds right in to the sinful flesh which then puffs them up with pride. The pride blinds them, repeat it over and over. Then they are “promoted” in to popularity and fame in “The Machine”, they are spiritually blinded but they can’t see it because their own pride blinds them. Before you know it, they are covering up exposed liars, plagiarizers and whatever else is evil.

Obadiah 1:3 - "The pride of thine heart hath deceived thee.."

The end result is “The Machine” will hire and protect known exposed liars, as we have seen. It has absolutely nothing to do with the truth. Oh it will look like the truth when they quote Bible verses, but when they cover up exposed liars as we have demonstrated, that’s not the truth, THAT'S DARKNESS. They are not obeying what they allegedly promote.

John 11:26 – “And whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die. Believest thou this?”

Jesus said if we LIVE and believe in Him, we shall never die.

The folks in “The Machine” may believe in Jesus, but they aren’t living in Jesus. They are divided.

So they have an appearance of light, but it’s really darkness.

Matthew 6:22-24 – “The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.”

“The Machine” serves mammon, has the “appearance of light” but is full of darkness. It has NOTHING to do the God of Truth.

Their eye is NOT single, it’s NOT on God only, it’s on money and God, that can’t happen according to Jesus.

•Money & God cannot co-exist to equal light.
•Money & God = darkness that has the appearance of light (dual eye)
•God = light (single eye)

This allows TRUTH to go forward with no hindrance of being affected by the "philos" or "friendship" with money. TRUTH is single.

The love of money is the root of all evil, their eye is on money, and they are full of darkness on the inside with the appearance of light on the outside. The end result is covering up exposed liars in “The Machine”. NOT ALL TRUTH.

Remember the Greek root word for the word “love” in 1 Timothy 6:10 is “philos” which means “a friend”.

2 Corinthians 11:13-15 – “For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.”

Here is a link to the issue for further information –

http://jonathanmerritt.religionnews.com/2013/12/06/mefferd-producer-resigns-driscoll-controversy/

It appears much or all the comments have been removed, however Julie Anne at Spiritual Sounding Board put this Twitter slide show together that I thought was beneficial –

[Twitter slide show in link]

http://spiritualsoundingboard.com/2013/12/04/breaking-janet-mefferd-removes-tweets-and-blog-material-regarding-mark-driscoll-and-alleged-plagiarism/


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Marsh ill church
Post by: Kilika on December 12, 2013, 01:42:00 am
The apostate "church" system is none other than Satan's pr division ("...say they are Jews and are not..."), and ultimately, will be promoted and run by the False Prophet, who I believe may well be the Pope. If not him, then I think he may be some spiritual person that doesn't promote any one religion, a kind of universal metro-religion where everybody is welcome kind of ideology.

"Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine." 2 Timothy 4:2 (KJB)


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Marsh ill church
Post by: Mark on December 17, 2013, 05:37:26 am
Plagiarism Accusation Raises More Questions for Driscoll

Accusations of plagiarism surrounding Seattle megachurch pastor Mark Driscoll have raised troubling questions about the Christian publishing industry and the way celebrity pastors produce and market books.
 
First, the facts: On Nov. 21 Driscoll appeared on Janet Mefferd’s radio program to discuss his new book, A Call to Resurgence, published by Tyndale House Publishers. Mefferd maintains Driscoll’s representatives initiated the request for his appearance. As part of her preparation for the interview, Mefferd encountered several passages in Driscoll’s book that sounded familiar. A bit of research revealed the familiar passages were uncredited passages taken verbatim from a book written by Peter Jones, scholar in residence at Westminster Seminary California. Mefferd confronted Driscoll on the air in what quickly became an awkward and contentious interview on her program, which is syndicated by the Salem Radio Network (SRN), the nation’s largest Christian radio network.
 
After the interview, and in part as a response to criticism that she had unfairly confronted Driscoll about a “mistake” that did not rise to the level of intentional plagiarism, Mefferd put more examples of Driscoll’s uncredited use of other people’s material on her website. But on Dec. 4, Mefferd took the material down from her website and issued an on-air apology for the way she handled Driscoll’s interview, though she did not retract her accusations of plagiarism.
 
Since then, Mefferd has been publicly silent on the matter, but others have suggested she was pressured into making the apology. The day after Mefferd’s apology, Ingrid Schlueter, a part-time researcher for Mefferd who also helped book guests for the program, resigned in protest over the way Mefferd had been treated, posting her reasons online:
 
“All I can share is that there is an evangelical celebrity machine that is more powerful than anyone realizes. You may not go up against the machine. That is all. Mark Driscoll clearly plagiarized and those who could have underscored the seriousness of it and demanded accountability did not. That is the reality of the evangelical industrial complex.”
 
Salem denies putting pressure on Mefferd or being pressure by Tyndale House or any other Christian publisher. To clarify its relationship with Salem, Tyndale issued a statement, saying:
 
“There is a misperception about the term ‘media partnership’ when it comes to Salem and Tyndale. It simply means that Tyndale advertises on SRN. We have in the past and we expect to continue to do so. The quote from Aprel Mabson (Tyndale’s advertising and promotions coordinator) on the Salem site is nothing more than a testimonial about the positive relationship that Tyndale has had advertising on Salem shows.”
 
Tyndale also issued a statement defending its author, Driscoll:
 
“Tyndale House takes any accusation of plagiarism seriously and has therefore conducted a thorough in-house review of the original material and sources provided by the author. After this review we feel confident that the content in question has been properly cited in the printed book and conforms to market standards.”
 
Warren Throckmorton, a professor at Grove City College, has been following the Driscoll-Mefferd controversy. Throckmorton came to national attention in 2012 for exposing problems in the work of David Barton. He found the Tyndale statement disheartening.
 
“It is a shame that a Christian publisher would cite ‘market standards’ when there are biblical standards to go by,” Throckmorton said. “Christian publishers should aspire to more than mere industry standards.”
 
At least one Christian publisher said Driscoll’s books do not even rise to that low bar.
 
InterVarsity Press—publisher of the New Bible Commentary, edited by G.J. Wenham, J.A. Motyer, D.A. Carson, and R.T. France—released a statement saying “several paragraphs” of Driscoll’s book Trial: 8 Witnesses from 1 & 2 Peter “improperly” used the IVP commentary “without quotation or attribution.”
 
Tyndale did not publish Trial. Instead, it was published by Mars Hill Church, where Driscoll is the founding pastor. After InterVarsity issued its statement, Mars Hill pulled the book from its website and issued a statement, saying in part:
 
“We have discovered that during the editing process, content from other published sources were mistaken for research notes. These sentences were adapted instead of quoted directly. We are grateful this was brought to our attention, and we have removed that document from our website to correct the mistake. Additionally, we are examining all of our similar content as a precautionary measure.”
 
Driscoll has refused repeated requests by WORLD for an interview. In fact, his silence has become an issue since Driscoll has made a habit in his pastoral career of seeking out controversy.

http://www.religiontoday.com/blog/taking-credit-deflecting-blame.html?utm


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Marsh ill church
Post by: Mark on December 19, 2013, 05:25:46 am
Tyndale Releases Results of Mark Driscoll Plagiarism Investigation

Today, Tyndale House Publishers released the conclusions of a three-week investigation into allegations of plagiarism against Seattle megapastor Mark Driscoll that drew widespread attention. In the same public statement (copied below in full), Driscoll addresses the controversy for the first time.
 
"After taking the necessary and important time needed to investigate all aspects of this issue, Tyndale House Publishers has concluded the following," the publisher states. "Pertaining to his Tyndale book, A Call to Resurgence, Tyndale believes that Mark Driscoll did indeed adequately cite the work of Peter Jones. ... Tyndale rejects the claims that Mark Driscoll tried to take Peter Jones's ideas and claim them as his own."
 
Regarding a 1 Peter and 2 Peter study guide that InterVarsity Press told CT did not qualify as fair use, Driscoll states: "The error was unintentional, but serious nonetheless. I take responsibility for all of this. In order to make things right, we've contacted the publisher of the works used in the study guide, offered an apology, and agreed to work with them to resolve any issues they had."
 
"Mistakes were made that I am grieved by and apologize for," states Driscoll. "As a Bible teacher, I know that Jesus loves us and uses everything for good. I know he cares very much that we do things in a way that reflects his glory. As a result, I have been praying that he would help me learn through all of this to become more like him and more effective for him."
 
"Because of the biblical manner in which Pastor Driscoll has handled this situation, Tyndale strongly stands behind him and looks forward to publishing many additional books with him," states Ron Beers, senior vice president and group publisher for Tyndale.
 
CT's Andy Crouch recently weighed in on "the real problem with Mark Driscoll's 'citation errors'—and it isn't plagiarism."
 
CT's previous coverage of plagiarism includes plagiarism accusations faced by Richard Land during the Trayvon Martin case. Land lost his radio show over his comments, and later announced his retirement as president of the Southern Baptist Convention's Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission.
 
CT has also reported on how plagiarism among pastors helped spark a new code of ethics from the National Association of Evangelicals, as well as how a former Bush aide repented after his 2008 plagiarism scandal.
 
Here is the complete statement from Tyndale and Driscoll:
 

On November 21, 2013 Pastor Mark Driscoll participated in a radio interview via phone to promote his new book, A Call to Resurgence. The interview was arranged by his book publisher, Tyndale House. During that interview, the talk show host accused Pastor Driscoll of plagiarism in his new book, claiming that he had not properly cited ideas that originally came from Peter Jones, Director of truthXchange and Adjunct Professor at Westminster Seminary in California. In the days following the interview, the talk show host posted on her blog further allegations of plagiarism against Pastor Driscoll, complete with screenshots of other books where she alleged he had committed plagiarism. She later removed all of those posts and issued a public apology.

 Since that time, both Mark Driscoll and Tyndale House have been asked to make statements addressing this issue. While Tyndale has made two brief statements, it has spent much of the past three weeks looking carefully into these claims, as has Pastor Driscoll. Tyndale House and Mark Driscoll take any claims of plagiarism seriously. Tyndale does not condone it in any of its works, and if discovered, the company takes action to correct it immediately. Driscoll has consistently spoken out against plagiarism in his writing and publishing. If any mistakes are ever made in that regard, he is equally committed to correcting such errors as soon as they are discovered. Pastor Driscoll has fully cooperated with Tyndale and both have worked together to carefully investigate the issue with respect to A Call to Resurgence.

After taking the necessary and important time needed to investigate all aspects of this issue, Tyndale House Publishers has concluded the following:


 1. Pertaining to his Tyndale book, A Call to Resurgence, Tyndale believes that Mark Driscoll did indeed adequately cite the work of Peter Jones. While there are many nuanced definitions of plagiarism, most definitions agree that plagiarism is a writer's deliberate use of someone's words or ideas, and claiming them as their own with no intent to provide credit to the original source. Both Mark Driscoll and Tyndale completely agree that the above definition describes an ethical breach and therefore work hard to provide proper citation and to give credit where credit is due in all their works. Tyndale rejects the claims that Mark Driscoll tried to take Peter Jones's ideas and claim them as his own. Moreover, at Pastor Driscoll's invitation, Peter Jones has written on the Resurgence website, and spoken at a Resurgence event, as well as a Mars Hill workshop. Quite the opposite of trying to take Peter Jones's ideas, Mark Driscoll has provided several opportunities for Peter Jones to publicly express his ideas to a large audience.

 2. In a separate issue unrelated to any Tyndale title, the radio host also made an allegation with regard to a study guide that was published in-house at Mars Hill. In this instance, Pastor Driscoll agrees that errors were made. He says:

 In recent weeks, it was brought to my attention that our 2009 Trial study guide on 1&2 Peter contained passages from an existing work for which no proper citation to the original work was provided. The error was unintentional, but serious nonetheless. I take responsibility for all of this. In order to make things right, we've contacted the publisher of the works used in the study guide, offered an apology, and agreed to work with them to resolve any issues they had. Also, I personally contacted one of the editors of the work that was not rightly attributed. Thankfully, he and I have a longstanding relationship, which includes him teaching at Mars Hill and publishing a book with us through Resurgence. He's a godly man who has been very gracious through all of this. I am deeply thankful for his acceptance of my apology, as I deeply grieve this mistake with a brother in Christ whom I appreciate very much.

 Our Full Council of Elders and Board of Advisors and Accountability have all been thoroughly informed, as I am gladly under authority both internally at Mars Hill to a team of Elders, and to a formal leadership team from outside of Mars Hill.

 We've removed the free PDF version of Trial from our website, and we are reviewing the rest of our self-published materials to ensure that no similar mistakes have been made elsewhere. We are also making changes to our content development process to avoid these mistakes in the future. In addition, we are working with all of our past publishers to review other books we have published. If other mistakes were made, we want to correct them as soon as possible.

 Unfortunately, when we removed the Trial PDF from the Mars Hill website, we replaced it with a statement that claimed the book was never sold. That study guide was originally created for in-house small group use at Mars Hill so we gave it away at our church. We first believed we did not receive any revenue from this, but we later discovered that Trial was in fact previously sold on the Resurgence website and by Logos Software. To the best of our knowledge, total profits to Mars Hill from these sales are $236.35. We have corrected the previous statement on our website, and apologize for this error as well.

 Mistakes were made that I am grieved by and apologize for. As a Bible teacher, I know that Jesus loves us and uses everything for good. I know he cares very much that we do things in a way that reflects his glory. As a result, I have been praying that he would help me learn through all of this to become more like him and more effective for him."

 "To his credit, Mark Driscoll has moved quickly to make all necessary changes where mistakes were made in the study guide" said Ron Beers, Senior Vice President and Group Publisher for Tyndale. "Moreover, he has assured us that he has personally spoken with the primary editor of a commentary that was inadvertently used in the study guide without adequate citation, and all parties spoken to have told Pastor Driscoll that they are satisfied with the steps he has taken to correct the errors. Because of the biblical manner in which Pastor Driscoll has handled this situation, Tyndale strongly stands behind him and looks forward to publishing many additional books with him. Tyndale believes that Mark Driscoll has provided a significant call to Christians to unite together in translating the message of Jesus faithfully to a post-Christian culture, to proclaim clearly, loudly, and unashamedly the Good News of Jesus."

http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleanings/2013/december/tyndale-releases-results-mark-driscoll-plagiarism-investiga.html?utm


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Marsh ill church
Post by: Mark on January 01, 2014, 01:31:07 pm
Will Christian Publishers Stand Behind Mars Hill's Sketchy Legacy?

Mars Hill Church's (MHC) current preaching series Malachi: Living for a Legacy focuses on what kind of a biblical legacy their members will leave behind after they depart into the heavenly skies. However, given recent evidence of plagiarism by their senior pastor Mark Driscoll, one could easily question what kind of a legacy this megachurch is imparting not only via their home base in Bellevue, WA but also throughout their global church plants and their online podcast network.

Now that the online buzz surrounding these revelations seems to have cooled off, the evidence doesn’t support the allegation that this was just a witch hunt conducted by those seeking to discredit a controversial "cussing pastor." Rather, evangelical Christian radio host Janet Mefferd's research unearthed examples where Driscoll used material from Peter Jones in his latest book A Call to Resurgence (Tyndale, November 2013) without crediting Jones. Later, she produced evidence that material from Driscoll's study guide Trial: 8 Witnesses From 1 & 2 Peter (Mars Hill Church, 2009, out of print) contained material from the New Bible Commentary (InterVarsity Press, 1994) that was also used without proper citation. After Mefferd accused Driscoll of plagiarism during her interview with him on November 21, 2013, the documentation disappeared from her website though she remained unapologetic about the substance of her allegations.

Initially, MHC accused a "research assistant" with the Docent Group of sending unsourced research notes to Driscoll that made their way into the Trial book. Further analysis revealed that Driscoll was provided with research notes sourced according to industry standards which he appears to have ignored. Along those lines, Tyndale House Publishers doesn’t appear to have applied the rigorous fact checking that publishing houses typically employ, which would have caught the book’s errors as well.

In addition, the "research assistant" he accused of plagiarism was in fact former Mars Hill Church Pastor Justin Holcomb, whom Driscoll praised in March of 2012 for his leadership of Resurgence, the church's publishing and teaching ministry. In a statement posted by Tyndale, Driscoll admits "mistakes were made," though he failed to take responsibility for making false allegations against a former pastor.

John Piper may have called out his fellow megachurch pastor for taking credit for work penned by others but in its statement Tyndale didn’t waver in its support for Driscoll. "Because of the biblical manner in which Pastor Driscoll has handled this situation, Tyndale strongly stands behind him and looks forward to publishing many additional books with him." It’s possible that Tyndale’s reluctance to risk losing an earner like Driscoll has something to do with the publisher’s recent deal with Resurgence Publishing where they will publish numerous titles under a new imprint called Resurgence Publishing (formerly Re: Lit).

A quick review of Driscoll's other recent work reveals similar problems. In Who Do You Think You Are? (Thomas Nelson, January 2013), Driscoll used material from an IVP reference book and Dan B. Allender's Wounded Heart (NavPress, 2008). IVP noted material from this bible commentary improperly appeared without quotation or attribution for the Trial book, and conveyed via email that their statement stands in this case as well. Driscoll also used material from Allender without citation in 2008’s Death by Love, which was published by Crossway.

Moving on to Driscoll's highly publicized #1 New York Times bestseller Real Marriage, co-written with Driscoll's wife Grace, one finds multiple instances of using Allender's work without citation, including chapters supposedly written by Grace. And again, portions of Rid of My Disgrace (2011, Re:Lit), penned by Justin and Lindsey Holcomb, can be found in this book. (Chapter 7 of Real Marriage, contains unattributed passages from pages 16-17 and 27 of Rid of My Disgrace). In an ironic twist, the Resurgence store still sells this book even though Driscoll tried to blame Holcomb for the plagiarism found in the Trial book.

In an email exchange, Crossway stated, "We are in touch with Mars Hill and are conducting an internal review to ensure that our books published by Mark Driscoll have proper citation and documentation." So far, NavPress, publisher of Wounded Heart, has not issued a response regarding Driscoll's use of that book without proper citation, nor has Thomas Nelson commented about these latest allegations of plagiarism committed by its #1 New York Times bestselling author, and why it appears to have failed to fact check Driscoll's books prior to publication.

Furthermore, MHC's ongoing debates over trademarking its name and logos indicate that MHC leaders have no problem issuing "cease and desist" letters when they feel their material might be used without proper citation and credit. So they understand the principle of copyright protection—at least as it applies to their work. Emails to MHC asking for clarification have gone unanswered.

Over at the evangelical flagship site Christianity Today, Andy Crouch opined how the real problem here isn't plagiarism but the fact that much of the work attributed to celebrity figures in the Christian world today is not their own. But the glaring fact remains that plagiarism is a very serious offense that in non-evangelical settings often results in loss of employment. Yes, in secular circles, author/speakers with star power like Fareed Zakaria can emerge from a plagiarism scandal with their gigs intact. However, even Zakaria was given a one month suspension from Time and CNN, while Mark appears to have emerged from this fracas with the full support of both MHC and his current publisher.

On the First Things blog, Carl Trueman recently wrote:

the health of the Christian subcultures in our society depends to an important extent upon the freedom of the Christian press; and that in turn depends upon having plenty of public voices and different groups presenting their different perspectives without the threat of being silenced by those with power and money. I need voices that criticize me and so does everyone else who operates in the public Christian sphere.

If Trueman is correct, this particular subculture appears to have a rather nasty flu.

http://www.religiondispatches.org/archive/culture/7474/will_christian_publishers_stand_behind_mars_hill_s_sketchy_legacy/?utm


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Marsh ill church
Post by: Mark on January 03, 2014, 06:22:15 am
More publishers investigate Mark Driscoll

At least two more Christian publishers are investigating concerns of plagiarism regarding Mark Driscoll, pastor of Mars Hill Church in Seattle.

Crossway, which published Driscoll’s Death by Love, issued a statement saying, “We are in touch with Mars Hill and are conducting an internal review to ensure that our books published by Mark Driscoll have proper citation and documentation.” Crossway publicist Janni Firestone added, “As of right now, we’re not sure when the internal review will be complete.”

Driscoll has published nine books with Crossway.

http://www.worldmag.com/2014/01/more_publishers_investigate_driscoll?utm


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll Mocks God
Post by: Mark on January 18, 2014, 05:34:34 am
Mark Driscoll Angers Twitterverse With Tweet About Hell

 No stranger to controversy, pastor Mark Driscoll has once again given critics a reason to blast him—this time on Twitter.

The pastor of Seattle-based Mars Hill Church lit up the Twitterverse Friday with his tweet, “If you are not a Christian, you are going to hell. It’s not unloving to say that. It’s unloving not to say that.”

Everest Alexander, with the Twitter username “@MyHomeBizTools” replied, “@PastorMark Brother Mark, of course you're 100% correct! I would phrase it a bit differently. If you're not Born Again you're going to hell.”

But most of the responses were negative.

“@PastorMark I wouldn't want to worship a god that would send a good person to hell just for not believing in her,” wrote comedian Adam Wolf.

Twitter user “@almightygod” accused Driscoll of threatening nonbelievers: “@PastorMark Isn't threatening non-Christians with hell sort of like threatening adults with coal in their xmas stocking?”

Jacqueline O. Rhodes commented: “@PastorMark I'd rather go to hell then spend eternity in the same place as you.”

The subject of hell has become increasingly divisive—even among Christians in the last several years. Rob Bell’s 2011 book, Love Wins: A Book About Heaven, Hell, and the Fate of Every Person Who Every Lived, was panned by evangelicals, with some accusing the pastor of heresy.

Around the time the book came out, Driscoll wrote a blog post stating that it is important to understand that God doesn’t send just anyone to hell, but only those who reject Him.

“Hell is only for those who persistently reject the real God in favor of false gods,” he wrote. “To paraphrase C.S. Lewis, either people will say to God, ‘Thy will be done,’ or God will say to them, ‘Thy will be done.’ ”

 - See more at: http://news.charismanews.com/us/42428-mark-driscoll-angers-twitterverse-with-tweet-about-hell#sthash.ewNqvuht.dpuf


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Marsh ill church
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on January 18, 2014, 09:46:38 am
Quote
The subject of hell has become increasingly divisive—even among Christians in the last several years. Rob Bell’s 2011 book, Love Wins: A Book About Heaven, Hell, and the Fate of Every Person Who Every Lived, was panned by evangelicals, with some accusing the pastor of heresy.

That's b/c these false, perverted non-KJBs have deleted many references of hell. It's come to a point where the common "church"-goer and "pastor" may not even believe it exists b/c of just that(or just plain offended b/c of just that). The NKJB, fyi, replaced the word hell with "hades" - from what I understand, occultists believe hades is a place of paradise(ie-rock music people put this in their lyrics) - so a non-believer who's hearing the gospel for the first time from someone preaching out of this version will likely get a false perception that we can continue living in sin and the lusts of our flesh.

Quote
“Hell is only for those who persistently reject the real God in favor of false gods,” he wrote. “To paraphrase C.S. Lewis, either people will say to God, ‘Thy will be done,’ or God will say to them, ‘Thy will be done.’ ”

Ah...the same ecumenical, occultist CS Lewis - I've read many of his books a few years ago when I thought I was saved. Sure, his writings may have some biblical truth in it, but at the same time he managed to slip in a lot of heresies to boot when you're looking the other way.

Typical of these wolves like Driscoll - they will have the appearance of preaching truth, but then they will point you to heretics like Lewis that will bring you down the destructive path.


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Marsh ill church
Post by: Mark on March 10, 2014, 05:24:35 am
Driscoll bought his own book to make it a best seller.  :D Darwin and his handlers did the same thing, so did Hillary Clinton. Seems only liars need to do that.

Mars Hill Defends How Mark Driscoll's 'Real Marriage' Became a Bestseller
'Unwise' but not 'uncommon or illegal,' $200,000 campaign helped marriage book briefly top New York Times list.

just untruthful

 Recent reports telling how Mark Driscoll's book reached the top of a bestseller list have left Mars Hill Church calling the campaign "unwise," but not "uncommon or illegal."

Driscoll has recently faced scrutiny for citation errors in a study guide. Now, his book Real Marriage, which Driscoll coauthored with his wife, Grace, is receiving intense attention concerning how it became a New York Times No. 1 bestseller.

In 2011 and 2012, Mars Hill reportedly paid a marketing company ResultSource Inc. (RSI) $210,000 in a contract designed to boost the book to the bestseller list. In a 2011 document, the deal's main purpose was:

    "to conduct a bestseller campaign for your book, Real Marriage on the week of January 2, 2012. The bestseller campaign is intended to place Real Marriage on The New York Times bestseller list for the Advice How-To list."

Aggressive book-marketing campaigns raise ethical questions about the use of church resources and manipulation of bestseller lists.

The document asked Mars Hill to buy 6,000 individual orders and supply RSI with addresses to deliver the books through a third party. In addition, Mars Hill purchased 5,000 bulk copies and provided 90 different addresses for the shipment of the bulk copies, according to the document signed by Matt Miller of RSI and Mars Hill general manager (and current executive elder) John Sutton Turner.

Warren Cole Smith broke the story for World.

In a statement on the church's website, Mars Hill's Board of Advisors and Accountability declared that it "stands unreservedly" behind Driscoll and the executive elders. Among other issues, the board also responded to the church's marketing campaign for Real Marriage:

    While not uncommon or illegal, this unwise strategy is not one we had used before or since, and not one we will use again. The true cost of this endeavor was much less than what has been reported, and to be clear, all of the books purchased through this campaign have been given away or sold through normal channels. All monies from the sale of Pastor Mark's books at Mars Hill bookstores have always gone to the church and Pastor Mark did not profit from the Real Marriage books sold either at the church or through the Result Source marketing campaign.

Driscoll is not the first author to use RSI to get to the top of bestseller lists. According to its website, the marketing company's campaigns are a "sequence of actions all designed to produce clearly defined objectives within limited timeframes and with limited resources."

One of those objectives: attaining bestseller status.

"Publishing a book builds credibility, but having a Bestseller initiates incredible growth—exponentially increasing the demand for your thought leadership, skyrocketing your speaking itinerary and value," the website explains.

The deal between Mars Hill and RSI did achieve its goal—at least for a week. Real Marriage landed a No. 1 spot on The New York Times bestseller list on January 22, 2012. The book was already absent in the top 10 the following week; then, two weeks later, it came back on the bestseller list at #12 for another two weeks. These short stints were enough for Driscoll's official biography to call attention to it.

Mars Hill has received more than $200,000 from sales of Driscoll's book, church spokesman Justin Dean told World.

CT reached out to Thomas Nelson, the publisher of Real Marriage, about Mars Hill's dealings with RSI.

"On occasion, authors will hire additional marketing assistance for book campaigns, apart from what the publisher provides. In this case, it was not our decision, nor were we a party to the agreement," said spokesperson Casey Francis Harrell.

Meanwhile, in a recent interview with CT's sister publication Leadership Journal, Driscoll explained why he has not left Mars Hill to write books full-time:

    I'm probably at the point that I could write books and speak and hang out by my pool and coach Little League. But I don't want to do that because I really love our church. I'm a local church guy. My belief is that Jesus gave his life for the church and he honors those who do the same.

In January 2012, CT interviewed Mark and Grace Driscoll about Real Marriage.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleanings/2014/march/did-mark-driscoll-real-marriage-earn-nyt-bestseller-status-.html


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Marsh ill church
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on March 10, 2014, 12:45:13 pm
Quote
Meanwhile, in a recent interview with CT's sister publication Leadership Journal, Driscoll explained why he has not left Mars Hill to write books full-time:

    I'm probably at the point that I could write books and speak and hang out by my pool and coach Little League. But I don't want to do that because I really love our church. I'm a local church guy. My belief is that Jesus gave his life for the church and he honors those who do the same.

But, BUT - church BUILDINGS are unscriptural, Mr. Driscoll!

With that being said - Driscoll, like many other "Christian" book authors, probably has his books ghost-written as well.


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Marsh ill church
Post by: Mark on March 10, 2014, 12:53:18 pm
My belief is that Jesus gave his life for the church and he honors those who do the same.

That has to be your problem as that isnt what the Bible says.


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Marsh ill church
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on March 10, 2014, 01:01:11 pm
My belief is that Jesus gave his life for the church and he honors those who do the same.

That has to be your problem as that isnt what the Bible says.

You also hear all of these Apostate church building pastors say the same thing(pretty much) - they do this so that they can manipulate the pews to inve$t their grudge work time and resources into these church buildings.

Been there, done that - ultimately, it's nothing but slave labor.


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Marsh ill church
Post by: Mark on March 18, 2014, 03:21:23 pm
Pastor Mark Driscoll Apologizes for Missteps, Quits Social Media

 Seattle megachurch pastor Mark Driscoll has written a letter to his congregation to explain recent controversies, including the marketing campaign intended to place the book, Real Marriage, on The New York Times best-seller list.

Driscoll has been an influential pastor within Reformed evangelical circles for several years, helping to found a church planting network called Acts 29. His own Mars Hill Church attracts some 14,000 people at 15 locations in five states each Sunday.

In recent months, however, reports have emerged that Driscoll plagiarized some of the material in his books. And earlier this month, World magazine reported that Driscoll hired a firm to buy copies of the book he penned with his wife, Grace, so that it would top the best-seller lists.

In a letter posted on Reddit on Saturday (March 15), Driscoll apologized for using the marketing strategy.

“I am sorry that I used this strategy, and will never use it again,” he wrote. “I have also asked my publisher to not use the ‘#1 New York Times bestseller’ status in future publications, and am working to remove this from past publications as well.”

The church’s spokesman, Justin Dean, confirmed that a letter from Driscoll to Mars Hill Church was posted to the church’s internal network as “a private family communication.”

“At this time we have chosen not to publicly release the letter,” Dean said, adding that the pastor was not available for interviews.

Driscoll also apologized to his church in 2007 for lacking humility.

In the new letter, Driscoll said he would quit social media for the rest of 2014 to “reset” his life. ”The distractions it can cause for my family and our church family are not fruitful or helpful at this time,” he said.

Driscoll also wrote that “my angry-young-prophet days are over.”

“I understand that people who saw or experienced my sin during this season are hurt and in some cases have not yet come to a place of peace or resolution,” he wrote. “I have been burdened by this for the past year and have had private meetings one at a time to learn from, apologize to, and reconcile with people.”

He said that he will not do as many speaking engagements in the future. “I don’t see how I can be both a celebrity and a pastor, and so I am happy to give up the former so that I can focus on the latter,” he wrote.

Driscoll also apologized for how recent staff turnover has been handled.

“I am deeply grieved and even depressed by the pain we have caused,” he said. “Many have chosen to air their concerns online, and I apologize for any burden this may have brought on you, and I will do my best to clarify a few things without, I hope, being angry or defensive.”

http://www.christianheadlines.com/news/pastor-mark-driscoll-apologizes-for-missteps-quits-social-media.html


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Marsh ill church
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on March 18, 2014, 03:47:24 pm
Quote
In the new letter, Driscoll said he would quit social media for the rest of 2014 to “reset” his life. ”The distractions it can cause for my family and our church family are not fruitful or helpful at this time,” he said.

So that's IT? ANYONE can "quit" social media. ::)

Quote
“I understand that people who saw or experienced my sin during this season are hurt and in some cases have not yet come to a place of peace or resolution,” he wrote. “I have been burdened by this for the past year and have had private meetings one at a time to learn from, apologize to, and reconcile with people.”

What is it with these Churchianity folks - It's always "I...", "I...", and "I...". Whatever happened to them being quiet, doing their own business, and feeding the flock?

Quote
He said that he will not do as many speaking engagements in the future. “I don’t see how I can be both a celebrity and a pastor, and so I am happy to give up the former so that I can focus on the latter,” he wrote.

He should also give up his pastor title - scripture says we shouldn't be seeking titles. No ifs, ands, or buts.

Quote
“I am deeply grieved and even depressed by the pain we have caused,” he said. “Many have chosen to air their concerns online, and I apologize for any burden this may have brought on you, and I will do my best to clarify a few things without, I hope, being angry or defensive.”

Does that include showing R-rated movies to his youth group too? Or how about his foul language he uses toward his pews?


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Marsh ill church
Post by: Mark on March 31, 2014, 05:46:34 am
Why Do Mark Driscoll’s Sermons Keep Disappearing?

In recent weeks, many of Mark Driscoll’s sermons have disappeared from the Mars Hill Church website. On March 19, we saw the disappearance of all preaching content before 2008....Also, the page on Driscoll’s study guide on Peter is now missing. According to a message once posted on that page, the guide was to be returned to the site after plagiarized sections were properly sourced. Nothing is there now. He once disclosed that he had the ability to visualize the sins of others in graphic detail. He claimed to get those visions from God. Those sermons are now missing.  During a 2007 sermon, Driscoll famously wished he could “go Old Testament” on a couple of elders...He did not disguise his anger at elders who disagreed with his direction during those messages. Those sermons are now gone. 

MORE: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/warrenthrockmorton/2014/03/24/mark-driscolls-sermons-keep-disappearing/


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Marsh ill church
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on March 31, 2014, 06:14:05 pm
Why Do Mark Driscoll’s Sermons Keep Disappearing?

In recent weeks, many of Mark Driscoll’s sermons have disappeared from the Mars Hill Church website. On March 19, we saw the disappearance of all preaching content before 2008....Also, the page on Driscoll’s study guide on Peter is now missing. According to a message once posted on that page, the guide was to be returned to the site after plagiarized sections were properly sourced. Nothing is there now. He once disclosed that he had the ability to visualize the sins of others in graphic detail. He claimed to get those visions from God. Those sermons are now missing.  During a 2007 sermon, Driscoll famously wished he could “go Old Testament” on a couple of elders...He did not disguise his anger at elders who disagreed with his direction during those messages. Those sermons are now gone. 

MORE: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/warrenthrockmorton/2014/03/24/mark-driscolls-sermons-keep-disappearing/

Colosians_2:18  Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

FYI, the NIV and those other perversions change this verse to "visions he's seen"(paraphrasing here - but pretty much says this).


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Marsh ill church
Post by: Mark on April 02, 2014, 06:50:50 am
Mark Driscoll Was Wrong About Noah

According to pastor Mark Driscoll, “Noah was not a good guy but a graced guy.” In fact, he says, “The most common way Christians butcher the story of Noah is by misreading what the Bible actually says.”

Let’s take a look at what the Bible actually says to evaluate these strong claims.

Genesis 6:5 states, “The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually” (ESV). In stark contrast, verse 8 reads, “But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord.”

Pastor Driscoll is convinced that the normal (and obvious) way of reading this passage is wrong, and he rejects the idea that the Scripture is saying, “There were a bunch of bad guys who drowned and one good guy who got a boat. The moral of this story is that if you are a good guy, then God will save you from death and wrath.”

If that were true, he argues, then it would not be the gospel but rather salvation by works.

In contrast, he understands the text to say that Noah, like everyone else, was totally wicked, but he received grace from God (apparently by God’s sovereign choice), which then enabled him to live a godly life, as described in Genesis 6:9: “Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his generation. Noah walked with God.”

And Pastor Driscoll points out that Genesis 6:8 is the first time in the Bible where the word grace appears, which then connects the passage to Paul’s message of grace.

Of course, it is true that none of us are righteous enough to stand before God without His grace and that without His help and intervention, we would all be lost. I’m not arguing that for a second.

But Pastor Driscoll’s interpretation is contrary to the testimony of the rest of the Scripture, and it misunderstands the Hebrew as well.

Actually, the Hebrew expression “to find grace” in someone’s eyes means to find favor or to please, as most translations recognize (see, for example, Proverbs 28:23), and the expression is unrelated to the New Testament concept of grace, which is expressed in other ways in the Old Testament (see, for example, Psalm 103:10-14, Micah 7:18-19 and Jeremiah 31:31-34). Anyone who knows biblical Hebrew well knows this to be true.

So, what the Bible is saying here is that, contrary to the rest of the human race, Noah stood out before the Lord, which is the opposite of Pastor Driscoll’s interpretation.

Noah was different. He was righteous. As professor Bob Gladstone, my FIRE School of Ministry colleague, notes, “How refreshing Noah must have been to God’s just heart! Noah would be like a new Adam, the father of a renewed Adamic race.”

This is further confirmed in Ezekiel 14:14 (and Ezekiel 14:20), where Noah, along with Daniel and Job, is mentioned as an extraordinarily righteous man but not righteous enough to save Ezekiel’s sinful generation: “Even if these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they would deliver but their own lives by their righteousness, declares the Lord God.”

This same testimony is confirmed again in 2 Peter 2:5, which tells us that God “did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly.”

Noah was chosen by God to build the ark and preserve the human race because he was righteous (Genesis 7:1). It was for this same reason that he was raised up to preach as “a herald of righteousness.” And the fact that a person is righteous because they live a righteous life is taught throughout the Bible, meaning throughout the Old Testament and the New (see, for example, Ezekiel 18:1-32 and Luke 1:6).

The key thing to remember is that this is the result of faith and the proof of faith, as Jacob (James) explains so clearly in his letter, where he teaches emphatically that faith without works is dead (James 2:14-26).

So, Hebrews 11:7 presents Noah as a God-fearing man of faith, which was the key to his righteous living. In other words, because he believed in the one true God, he lived a righteous life (rather than earning his salvation by his good works). To quote Professor Gladstone again, “Noah was a human with a nature like ours. Yet that same Noah showed me that it is possible to live in this stubborn, rebellious world and still be truly innocent, holy, righteous—God’s friend.”

To be sure, we can always discuss questions of God’s sovereignty and His empowering grace, but those questions are not the subject of the flood account, nor are they part of the lesson the Lord wants us to learn from the text.

Instead, the moral of the story is clear: God destroys the wicked and delivers the righteous, as numerous biblical texts declare, and we become righteous by faith, which is demonstrated in a godly life.

Noah serves as a great example to all of us.

http://www.charismanews.com/opinion/in-the-line-of-fire/43334-mark-driscoll-was-wrong-about-noah


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Marsh ill church
Post by: Mark on April 03, 2014, 04:12:59 am
Driscoll's Apology Backlash

 Many following the continuing saga of Mars Hill pastor, Mark Driscoll, have expressed encouragement at his recent apology for dishonestly gaming the NYT best-seller list and for generally displaying pride, anger, and lack of maturity in his ministry. However, segments of the online community of people who self-identify as Christians are wary. 

Such coolness toward Driscoll’s apology has been met with rancor as well. (As in: 'How dare we NOT forgive this man? That’s the problem with Christians. We throw stones at each other and shoot our wounded. No wonder the world sees us as divided and unloving, etc...')

But the issue isn't really whether we should forgive Mark Driscoll. That's a given. Jesus said to forgive seventy times seven, and so we do forgive him and pray for him. Outspoken Driscoll critic, Benjamin L. Corey, also expressed this with charity at his blog "Formerly Fundie:"

If we’re actually going to take this “following Jesus” thing seriously, we must always root for and encourage lives to be changed and restored– even when that is someone we don’t particularly like. Especially when it is someone we don’t particularly like.

The fact remains that until Driscoll steps down from pastoral leadership, no amount of hiatus from social media or reduction of outside speaking engagements will free his apologies from the cloud of suspicion that they may have merely been the forced reactions of damage control and spin.

Yes, we’re all sinners. And all Christians are called to pursue the spiritual qualities of an elder. But leaders with an ongoing track record for unsuccessfully meeting elder qualifications yet who continue to cling to the title of pastor must honestly ask themselves why.

Christ’s brother, James, said “Let not many of you be teachers" because elder qualifications are Scripture’s built -in safeguards to protect the church. Among the passages describing the traits of a leader are Titus 1:5-9, which describes an elder as being “above reproach.” Likewise, 1 Timothy 3:7 says that an elder must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace.

For Driscoll, these appear to be high hurdles. Does saying so equate to being judgmental? Then why are those passages in the Bible? What is their purpose if not to discern--objectively--what type of man is fit to lead? What if one of the biggest reasons for Christianity’s lack of credibility isn’t actually the “lack of love” among Christians but the lack of trembling at God’s Word (Isa. 66:2) about matters that are so clear?

Mars Hill is an autonomous church and no amount of public praise or outrage can ultimately change what the leaders at Mars Hill decide to do. But does vilifying other Christians who hold high standards for the office of pastor/elder really solve Christianity’s perception problem? What do you think? Is it impossible to be simultaneously thankful that Mark Driscoll has apologized and yet also question whether he is fit to continue in church leadership as a pastor?

http://www.christianheadlines.com/links/driscoll-apology-backlash.html


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Marsh ill church
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on April 03, 2014, 09:47:07 am
These Driscoll and Warren-types are no different from these Hollywood celebs - they just LOVE the spotlight.

On the contrary, Jesus Christ's voice could NOT be heard in the streets when he did his 3.5 year ministry on earth.


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Marsh ill church
Post by: Mark on April 03, 2014, 09:49:49 am
On the contrary, Jesus Christ's voice could NOT be heard in the streets when he did his 3.5 year ministry on earth.

 ??? The Lord drew in huge crowds.


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Marsh ill church
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on April 03, 2014, 09:54:17 am
??? The Lord drew in huge crowds.

This is what I meant...

Matthew 12:17  That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,
Mat 12:18  Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.
Mat 12:19  He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets.
Mat 12:20  A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory.
Mat 12:21  And in his name shall the Gentiles trust.


What I meant to say is that these Mark Driscoll/Rick Warren types just LOVE the attention centered around them - for example, look at the WAY they talk. They talk LOUD, their words are MANY - pretty much, their egos are no different than that from Hollywood celebs/political types(ie-Obama and Gingrich).

On the contrary, scripture further says...

2Corinthians 3:12  Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Mars Hill church
Post by: Mark on April 11, 2014, 05:25:46 am
Former Mars Hill Pastors Introduce Confessions Website

 Four former Mars Hill Church leaders have introduced a website intended to repent for the sins they committed while leading the church alongside Pastor Mark Driscoll.

The group includes Mars Hill Orange County Pastor Kyle Firstenberg, Leadership Pastor Dave Kraft, Mars Hill Everett Pastor Scott Mitchell and Mars Hill co-founder Lief Moi reports The Christian Post. The former leaders hope that members of the Seattle-based church will be able to go to http://repentantpastor.com/ to begin the process of reconcilation.

The website home page reads, “We recognize and confess that Mars Hill has hurt many people within the Mars Hill community, as well as those outside the community including those who don’t believe Mars Hill’s religious beliefs, and we want to acknowledge the hurt we may have caused. We humbly ask your forgiveness. These are our individual confessions, letters, stories, and apologies.”

The idea of confessing began with Kirstenberg and Kraft, before Mitchell and Moi joined in the effort to seek repentance.

“Dave and I decided we needed to start with our own confession, because we can’t and shouldn’t call someone else out on sin without first doing so ourselves,” Firstenberg said.

http://www.christianheadlines.com/blog/former-mars-hill-pastors-introduce-confessions-website.html


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Mars Hill church
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on April 11, 2014, 01:47:23 pm
Former Mars Hill Pastors Introduce Confessions Website

 Four former Mars Hill Church leaders have introduced a website intended to repent for the sins they committed while leading the church alongside Pastor Mark Driscoll.

The group includes Mars Hill Orange County Pastor Kyle Firstenberg, Leadership Pastor Dave Kraft, Mars Hill Everett Pastor Scott Mitchell and Mars Hill co-founder Lief Moi reports The Christian Post. The former leaders hope that members of the Seattle-based church will be able to go to http://repentantpastor.com/ to begin the process of reconcilation.

The website home page reads, “We recognize and confess that Mars Hill has hurt many people within the Mars Hill community, as well as those outside the community including those who don’t believe Mars Hill’s religious beliefs, and we want to acknowledge the hurt we may have caused. We humbly ask your forgiveness. These are our individual confessions, letters, stories, and apologies.”

The idea of confessing began with Kirstenberg and Kraft, before Mitchell and Moi joined in the effort to seek repentance.

“Dave and I decided we needed to start with our own confession, because we can’t and shouldn’t call someone else out on sin without first doing so ourselves,” Firstenberg said.

http://www.christianheadlines.com/blog/former-mars-hill-pastors-introduce-confessions-website.html

So they just admitted they're Catholic. ::)


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Mars Hill church
Post by: Mark on April 11, 2014, 01:56:08 pm
So they just admitted they're Catholic. ::)

where did you get that at?


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Mars Hill church
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on April 11, 2014, 02:32:38 pm
where did you get that at?

 ??? From the article you posted? How former pastors of his church introduce "confession" web site?


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Mars Hill church
Post by: Mark on April 11, 2014, 02:39:39 pm
??? From the article you posted? How former pastors of his church introduce "confession" web site?

UHM, that's not exactly a catholic thing.

Jas 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

They are trying to come clean for all the Mars Hill stuff over the years. Of course Driscoll wont hop onboard.


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Mars Hill church
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on April 11, 2014, 02:52:33 pm
Quote
They are trying to come clean for all the Mars Hill stuff over the years. Of course Driscoll wont hop onboard.


Oh that's what it's all about.(Now I think I understand it) Thanks! :)


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Mars Hill church
Post by: Kilika on April 13, 2014, 03:12:55 am
Big difference between "confess your faults..."(biblically accurate) and a confessional (a perversion of scripture).


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Mars Hill church
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on August 10, 2014, 10:46:40 pm
http://www.inquisitr.com/1401090/mark-driscoll-is-removed-from-major-christian-organization-because-of-his-transgressions/
Mark Driscoll Is Removed From Major Christian Organization Because Of His Transgressions
8/9/14

For the longest time, Mark Driscoll was considered the “rock star” pastor among all pastors when it comes to mega churches. Unlike Joel Osteen, Joseph Prince, or Joyce Meyer, he was known for his edginess, his aggressiveness, and – of course – his potty mouth. Unfortunately, we here at The Inquisitr have reported numerous times on when Driscoll was in trouble for his actions, which could be labeled as transgressions. Not to mention, he has been on the chopping block for twisting the Word of God, especially for his stance on marijuana – not on whether or not one is allowed to partake in the herb, but utilizing Luke 6:37 as a go-to for it.

Now there are reports coming in that the pastor of the mega church, Mars Hill, has been removed from a major Christian organization. That also includes his church, too.

According to an article by The Blaze, followed by Charisma News, The Acts 29 Church Planting Network are the ones who removed Mark Driscoll from its ranks. This is verified by a statement they released on their official website on Friday. For them, the decision was made with deep sorrow as they cite numerous accusations against Driscoll that have made it untenable and unhelpful to keep him and Mars Hill in their network. What might be more shameful for Driscoll is the network also said the move to remove him was “so that the name of Christ will not continue to be dishonored.”

That is an extremely powerful accusation right there. The primary reason of one’s removal from a Christian network is because one “dishonors the name of Jesus Christ” has got to be a terrible bit of history on a pastor’s resume. However, Acts 29 isn’t just terminating Mark Driscoll without any warning. Apparently, he had plenty of chances as shown from the excerpt from the letter below:

    “Over the past three years, our board and network have been the recipients of countless shots and dozens of fires directly linked to you and what we consider ungodly and disqualifying behavior. We have both publicly and internally tried to support and give you the benefit of the doubt, even when multiple pastors in our network confirmed this behavior.”

The numerous transgressions going against Mark Driscoll includes his unceremonious termination of Mars Hill staff – which includes pastors – who didn’t have a 100 percent acceptance to his views as well as his marketing scheme to make his book a best seller on the New York Times Best Seller List.

At this moment, Mark Driscoll hasn’t commented on being removed from Acts 29. It might be understandable why because he is a co-founder of the network. He was also a former leader until turning it over to Matt Chandler back in 2012.

What do you think about Mark Driscoll’s situation with Acts 29? Is the network right to let go of the controversial pastor after so many chances or should they have kept him on since he one-half of the reason they exist? Please let us know in the comments below.

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Sounds like this reprobate Acts 29 Church Planting Network is doing DAMAGE CONTROL.


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Mars Hill church
Post by: Mark on August 11, 2014, 07:25:08 am
Mars Hill Board Responds: Acts 29 Network Announced 'Divisive' Decision Without Directly Speaking to Mark Driscoll

The Board of Advisors & Accountability of Mars Hill Church has responded to the Acts 29 church-planting network's "divisive" decision to dismiss Pastor Mark Driscoll and his megachurch from membership, complaining it was announced prior to speaking directly with the pastor or any of the board members.

"No one from Acts 29 contacted Larry Osborne of our board prior to this decision," reads a letter signed by Mars Hill BoAA chairman Michael Van Skaik and member Larry Osborne and sent to church members in response to the Acts 29 Network's announcement. "And perhaps most significantly, Pastor Mark was not personally contacted by the A29 board prior to receiving this announcement."

Despite apologies from Pastor Driscoll, the Acts 29 Network he founded more than a decade ago announced Friday they have dismissed him and his Seattle, Washington-based church from membership, citing complaints from other network pastors concerning the minister's divisive behavior. The pastor was also asked to remove himself from ministry.

"Be assured of this, the formal charges that were filed were serious, were taken seriously and were not dismissed by the board lightly," Van Skaik and Osborne respond. "There is clear evidence that the attitudes and behaviors attributed to Mark in the charges are not a part and have not been a part of Mark's life for some time now."

The Acts 29 Network said they were convinced that the nature of the accusations against Pastor Driscoll, "most of which have been confirmed by him," make it "untenable and unhelpful" to keep the pastor and his church in the network. "In taking this action, our prayer is that it will encourage the leadership of Mars Hill to respond in a distinctive and godly manner so that the name of Christ will not continue to be dishonoured," it said.

The Mars Hill BoAA says its decision "is final regarding these charges."

"Again, I am deeply saddened that the A29 board would make such a decisive and divisive conclusion without speaking directly to the board or Mark prior to their public announcement," the letter says.

The board urges church members not to become bitter or angry. "Continue to pray for all involved. Continue to love and lead the people God has brought to your churches. They need a pastor right now and God has given them you!"

According to a letter published on Warren Throckmorton's Patheos blog shown as addressed to "Mark," the Acts 29 board wrote: "Over the past three years, our board and network have been the recipients of countless shots and dozens of fires directly linked to you and what we consider ungodly and disqualifying behavior. We have both publicly and internally tried to support and give you the benefit of the doubt, even when multiple pastors in our network confirmed this behavior.

"In response, we leaned on the Mars Hill Board of Advisors & Accountability to take the lead in dealing with this matter. But we no longer believe the BoAA is able to execute the plan of reconciliation originally laid out. Ample time has been given for repentance, change, and restitution, with none forthcoming. We now have to take another course of action."

Driscoll's dismissal from the network came days after a group of former Mars Hill Church members held a protest outside of the megachurch last weekend. The disaffected members staged the protest to challenge Pastor Driscoll's claim in a videotaped statement that he would not be able to fully reconcile with members who were abruptly dismissed from or displeased with his ministry because "a lot of the people … remain anonymous." That apology was later followed by another statement of regret over strongly-worded and vulgar comments he made 14 years ago on the church's website.

Driscoll's 14-year-old comments, revealed under the name "William Wallace II" and posted in 2000, opened with the words, "We live in a completely pussified nation." Driscoll (as Wallace) condemned the majority of Christian men for being "Promise Keeping homoerotic worship loving mama's boy sensitive emasculated neutered exact male replica evangellyfish."

He added, "It all began with Adam, the first of the pussified nation, who kept his mouth shut and watched everything fall headlong down the slippery slide of hell/feminism when he shut his mouth and listened to his wife who thought Satan was a good theologian when he should have lead her and exercised his delegated authority as king of the planet.

"As a result, he was cursed for listening to his wife and every man since has been his pussified sit quietly by and watch a nation of men be raised by bitter **** envying burned feministed single mothers."

Driscoll ended his remarks by explaining that he expected many women to disagree with him, but "they like Eve should not speak on this matter."

http://www.christianpost.com/news/mars-hill-board-responds-acts-29-network-announced-divisive-decision-without-directly-speaking-to-mark-driscoll-124590/


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Mars Hill church
Post by: Mark on August 11, 2014, 07:26:56 am
Finally this guy is on the way out

LifeWay Stops Selling Mark Driscoll's Books at 180 Christian Stores
Southern Baptist chain decides to 'assess the situation regarding his ministry.'


 LifeWay Christian Resources, which bills itself as "one of the world's largest providers of Christian products and services," has pulled Mark Driscoll's books from its website and more than 180 stores nationwide.

The action comes one day after Matt Chandler's Acts 29 church planting network removed membership from Mars Hill churches and their popular pastor. Driscoll has authored 15 books and amassed a following of 13,000 weekly worshipers at 15 locations in five states.

"LifeWay Stores and Lifeway.com are not selling Mark Driscoll's books while we assess the situation regarding his ministry," Marty King, LifeWay's communications director, told CT. Earlier this month, LifeWay offered 42 products authored by or connected to Driscoll. Now, only five books that Driscoll contributed to remain.

The decision echoes the debate raised after the recent resignation of another popular pastor, Bob Coy, following a moral failing: Should Christians stop studying the teachings of fallen pastors?

Mars Hill has yet to respond to LifeWay's decision. But on Friday, leaders rebuked Acts 29's "divisive" decision, asserting "we are making real progress in addressing the serious reconciliation and unhealthy culture issues that have been a part of Mars Hill Church for way too long," and citing "clear evidence that the attitudes and behaviors attributed to Mark in the charges are not a part and have not been a part of Mark's life for some time now."

Driscoll, whose provocative preaching style has proved surprisingly successful in secular Seattle, has already apologized for the steady stream of controversies over the past few years.

Driscoll critic Warren Throckmorton broke the news of LifeWay's decision.

LifeWay was asked to ban Driscoll's books from its stores at the Southern Baptist Convention's 2009 annual meeting, but the motion failed to pass. Debate focused on whether Driscoll's blunt approach undermined his message.

Altogether, five motions were made against Driscoll at the 2009 convention, including a motion to have all Southern Baptist entities report any contact with Driscoll or the Acts 29 church planting network. Some were ruled out of order and others were referred to committees, Christian Retailing reported.

Driscoll was not alone—other 2009 motions reportedly requested to have The Shack and books by T.D. Jakes, John Hagee, and “Catholics” removed.

LifeWay has made news several times for banning materials. In 2012, stores pulled the film The Blind Side from shelves after complaints over the film’s profanity and use of a racial slur. The same year, the chain banned Rachel Held Evans’ book A Year of Biblical Womanhood for reasons not made public.

Evans claimed her use of the word “****” merited the ban, but CT reported that other LifeWay books use the word numerous times, including Driscoll's Real Marriage (five uses).

Also in 2012, LifeWay declined an SBC request to remove the 2011 NIV Bible translation from its shelves, and halted sales of a breast cancer awareness Bible amid concerns over the book's beneficiary: Susan G. Komen for the Cure, which also partners with Planned Parenthood.

In early 2011, CT reported when LifeWay dropped its “read with discernment” sticker program, which targeted books that “may have espoused thoughts, ideas, or concepts that could be considered inconsistent with historical evangelical theology.”

http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleanings/2014/august/lifeway-stops-selling-mark-driscolls-books-at-180-christian.html


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Mars Hill church
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on August 11, 2014, 08:58:55 am
Hopefully, the SBC will show Rick Warren, Richard Land, Franklin Graham, Billy Graham, Russell Moore, Beth Moore, Fred Luter, and Richard Foster the door next!


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Mars Hill church
Post by: Mark on August 24, 2014, 11:25:34 am
Mark Driscoll’s Books Pulled from Southern Baptist Convention’s Lifeway Stores

You really have to ask why were they there to begin with

The nation’s second largest Christian book retailer has pulled Mark Driscoll’s books from its website and 186 stores.

Leaders at the Southern Baptist Convention’s LifeWay Christian Resources, informed stores on Friday to stop selling books by the Seattle pastor who has been in hot water.

Last week, leaders of the church planting network Acts 29 removed Driscoll and his churches from the group he helped found and asked that he “step down from ministry for an extended time and seek help.”

Continue reading this story > http://www.religionnews.com/2014/08/11/mark-driscolls-books-pulled-southern-baptist-conventions-lifeway-stores/


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Mars Hill church
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on August 24, 2014, 12:14:54 pm
Well, hopefully the next books to go by SBC's Lifeway bookstore are Rick Warren's, Beth Moore's, Richard Foster's, Billy Graham's, and Franklin Graham's.



Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Mars Hill church
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on August 24, 2014, 05:08:49 pm
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/22/mark-driscoll-charges-abuse_n_5701296.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592#
8/22/14
Megapastor Mark Driscoll Charged With Abusive Conduct By 21 Former Mars Hill Pastors

RNS) Twenty-one former Mars Hill Church pastors have filed charges against Seattle megachurch founder Mark Driscoll, saying that he has engaged in a pattern of abusive and intimidating conduct and has not changed.

The charges, lodged with the executive elders of the church, include:

* “Pastor Mark exhibits lack of self-control by his speech and by verbally assaulting others.”
* “We believe that the way Pastor Mark leads has created a culture of fear instead of a culture of candor and safety. People are often afraid to ask questions or challenge certain ideas.”
* “Pastor Mark is verbally abusive to people who challenge him, disagree with him, or question him.”

Mars Hill Church has attracted as many as 14,000 people at 15 locations across five states each Sunday.

“We take these allegations seriously and we are thankful that we have a process in place where allegations will be reviewed by our board and our elders,” the church said in a statement.

Mars Hill also canceled its October Resurgence Conference, which was to feature recently resigned board members Paul Tripp and James MacDonald as speakers.

Driscoll was removed as closing speaker at an October church conference in Dallas and stricken from the speaker list at a series of four Christian “Act Like Men” conferences.

Earlier this month, Driscoll was removed from a church-planting network of more than 500 churches he helped found after a pattern of “ungodly and disqualifying behavior.” One of the most noticeably critical comments came from another prominent evangelical pastor in a story for the New York Times.

“He was really important — in the Internet age, Mark Driscoll definitely built up the evangelical movement enormously,” Timothy Keller, the senior pastor of Redeemer Presbyterian Church in New York, told The Times. “But the brashness and the arrogance and the rudeness in personal relationships — which he himself has confessed repeatedly — was obvious to many from the earliest days, and he has definitely now disillusioned quite a lot of people.”

Driscoll has been an influential but edgy pastor within conservative evangelical circles for several years. He has been provocative, occasionally profane, and has faced allegations of plagiarism and inflating his book sales.

“Mr. Driscoll is rapidly becoming a pariah in the world that once cheered him,” The Times wrote.

Driscoll returns from vacation on Sunday.


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Mars Hill church
Post by: Mark on August 25, 2014, 05:29:01 pm
Driscoll to Step Down From Megachurch Over Allegations of Spiritual Abuse

Controversial Seattle megachurch founder Mark Driscoll will step down for at least six weeks while leaders review formal charges lodged by a group of pastors that he abused his power.

The 43-year-old pastor has been under fire in recent months for plagiarism, inappropriate use of church funds and improper behavior toward subordinates.

Returning from vacation Sunday (Aug. 24), Driscoll addressed Mars Hill worship services through a pre-recorded message.

“I want to say to my Mars Hill family, past and present, I’m very sorry. I genuinely mean it,” Driscoll said in his address. “I’m very sorry for the times I’ve been angry, short or insensitive. I’m very sorry for anything I’ve done to distract from our mission by inviting criticism, controversy or negative media attention.”

Driscoll said he will not do any outside speaking for the foreseeable future and postpone the publication of his next book.

“I have begun meeting with a professional team of mature Christians who provide wise counsel to help further my personal development and maturity before God and men,” Driscoll told the congregation.

Mark DeMoss, an Atlanta public relations consultant and former supporter and adviser to Mitt Romney’s presidential campaign, has been brought in to help paint Driscoll in a positive light.

    Connect with Christian News

DeMoss, who represented the late Jerry Falwell Sr. and now Franklin Graham, stated that it is because of faults like Driscoll’s that he remains in business.

“I think he’s a gifted, biblical communicator who has done effective church work in an unchurched part of the country,” DeMoss said. “I like him, I believe in him, and if I only worked with ministry leaders who were faultless, I would be out of business tonight.”

Warren Throckmorton, a Grove City College psychology professor who has been blogging details of the events surrounding the church’s turmoil, first posted an audio clip of Driscoll’s 13-minute message. Throckmorton said he is aware of other elders planning to resign or considering it.

“Storm clouds seem to be swirling around me more than ever in recent month, and I have given much thought and sought much counsel as to why that is and what to do about it,” Driscoll said. “Some have challenged various aspects of my personality and leadership style, and while some of these challenges seem unfair, I have no problem admitting I am deserving of some of these criticisms based my own past actions that I am genuinely sorry for.”

Though he has long been controversial but popular for his unapologetic chauvinism, Driscoll faced increasing turmoil this past year within evangelical circles. A front-page story in The New York Times Saturday (Aug. 23),  suggested that Driscoll’s empire was “imploding.”

“He was really important — in the Internet age, Mark Driscoll definitely built up the evangelical movement enormously,” Timothy Keller, the senior pastor of Redeemer Presbyterian Church in New York, told the Times. “But the brashness and the arrogance and the rudeness in personal relationships — which he himself has confessed repeatedly — was obvious to many from the earliest days, and he has definitely now disillusioned quite a lot of people.”

Mars Hill Church has claimed as many as 14,000 members at 15 locations across five states each Sunday.

Earlier this week, 21 former Mars Hill pastors filed charges against Driscoll, saying that he has engaged in a pattern of abusive and intimidating conduct and has not changed.

“God is not honored by conflict, strife, disunity, arguing, slander, gossip, or anything else that is inconsistent with the fruit of the spirit, and I am deeply sorry, genuinely sorry, for the times I have not lived peaceably with all men,” Driscoll said.

Mars Hill also canceled its fall Resurgence Conference, which was to feature recently resigned board members Paul Tripp and James MacDonald as speakers. Driscoll was removed as closing speaker at an October church conference in Dallas and stricken from the speaker list at a series of four Christian “Act Like Men” conferences.

DeMoss, who also helped MacDonald during a theological controversy a few years ago, declined to comment on the criticism Driscoll has faced from other fellow evangelical pastors.

Earlier this month, Driscoll was removed from Acts 29, a church-planting network of more than 500 churches he helped found, after board members said they found a pattern of “ungodly and disqualifying behavior.”

“Based on the totality of the circumstances, we are now asking you to please step down from ministry for an extended time and seek help,” board members told Driscoll.

Driscoll recently admitted to and apologized for comments he made under the pseudonym “William Wallace II” where he posted statements critical of feminism, homosexuality and “sensitive emasculated” men. He noted those comments again in his address on Sunday.

“I have acknowledged and confessed many of my sins and shortcomings and missteps and God has been more than faithful with his forgiveness,” he said.

He has been provocative, occasionally profane, and has faced more recent allegations of plagiarism and inflating his book sales. “Mistakes were made that I am grieved by and apologize for,” he said late last year of plagiarism charges. He also apologized in March, saying “my angry-young-prophet days are over.”

After Acts 29 removed Driscoll from its membership, LifeWay Christian Resources, the nation’s second largest Christian book retailer, pulled Driscoll’s books from its website and 186 stores.

Driscoll, who came into evangelical prominence as multi-site churches and podcasts were becoming more popular, noted one of the paradoxes of being a pastor in a media age.

“The same media channels that can be used to carry a sermon to virtually anyone around the world, can be used by anyone around the globe to criticize, attack or slander,” Driscoll said. “However, another part of it is simply my fault and I will own it, confess it and move on from it as God continues to redeem me.”


http://christiannews.net/2014/08/24/driscoll-to-step-down-from-megachurch-over-allegations-of-spiritual-abuse/


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Mars Hill church
Post by: Mark on August 27, 2014, 06:55:29 am
5 Things Christians Need to Know about the Mark Driscoll Scandals

 As Christian Headlines previously reported, megachurch pastor Mark Driscoll announced to his Seattle-based congregation Sunday that he is taking a six-week leave of absence from his position as lead pastor of Mars Hill Church. Driscoll maintains he will take time to seek council about the next season of his life.
 
At the age of 25, Driscoll planted the church in 1996; Mars Hill has since grown to more than 13,000 people.
 
The ministry of Mars Hill has expanded since its founding and now includes 15 locations in five states: Washington, Oregon, California, New Mexico, and Arizona.
 
Popular within evangelical circles, Driscoll’s fall from fame happened in phases.
 
1. Mark Driscoll Accused of Plagiarism
 
On Nov. 21, 2014, Christian talk show host Janet Mefferd interviewed Driscoll about his most recent book, A Call to Resurgence. In what was presumed to be a typical author interview segment, Mefferd accused Driscoll of plagiarizing the scholarship of Peter Jones, an author and adjunct professor at Westminister Seminary California.
 
During the interview, Mefferd accused Driscoll of not providing proper attribution of Jones’ concept on "One-ism" and "Two-ism."
 
In One or Two: Seeing a World of Difference, Jones states, “One-ism believes that everything that exists is of one substance and that the goal of theology, spirituality and even sexuality is to destroy all distinctions, and bring all things together. Two-ism believes that there is a God outside creation who made all that is not God and has structured creation for the good of humanity.”
 
About the accusation, Todd Starowitz of Tyndale provided the following statement to Religion News Service:
 
“Tyndale House Publishers was provided a recording of the show by representatives of Pastor Driscoll. A number of people at Tyndale reviewed the tape and were stunned, not only by the accusations, but by the belligerent tone of Ms. Mefferd’s questioning. When Ms. Mefferd asked Pastor Driscoll her first question to accuse him of plagiarism, she did not invoke Peter Jones’s name. The first person that Pastor Driscoll credited in his response was Mr. Jones. Pastor Driscoll also credits Mr. Jones in the section that Janet refers to in Mark’s book, A Call to Resurgence.
 
Tyndale has taken immediate steps as in the process of reviewing the section of Pastor Driscoll’s book that has been called into question. Pastor Driscoll has also reached out to Mr. Jones and we expect to be able to release some information on his reaction to the interview very soon.”
 
In an abrupt reversal, soon after the interview, Mefferd removed the Driscoll audio file interview link from her website and apologized to her audience for her conduct.
 
Dr. Warren Throckmorton, professor of psychology at Grove City College and Patheos columnist, is unaware of Driscoll’s motives or what took place in each case.
 
“All I know is that I have found citation errors in nine of Mark Driscoll's books,” said Throckmorton. “Publishers have validated these findings by quietly correcting many of them. Driscoll has only addressed two instances so it is not possible to know how this pattern has persisted.”
 
While never admitting to plagiarism, Driscoll admitted to problems with “sourcing” and “attribution.”
 
2. Inappropriate Use of Church Funds
 
In March, World Magazine reported that Mars Hill Church spent at least $210,000 with a firm that sought to get Driscoll’s Real Marriage book on the New York Times best-seller list.
 
According to a document obtained by World Magazine Associate Publisher Warren Smith, Mars Hill contracted with ResultSource Inc. (RSI) “to conduct a bestseller campaign for your book, Real Marriage on the week of January 2, 2012. The bestseller campaign is intended to place Real Marriage on The New York Times bestseller list for the Advice How-To list.”
 
Through the efforts of RSI, the book indeed, became a New York Times bestseller.
 
Upon the release of the World Magazine story Driscoll once again apologized and ordered the publisher to remove any mention that Real Marriage had become a New York Times bestseller.
 
Once the information had become public and verified that Driscoll had both plagiarized and used church funds inappropriately to promote his book, individuals begun to come forward questioning various aspects of the Mars Hill ministry.
 
For example, Smith claims some questioned how Mars Hill Church used donations to its global mission fund called Mars Hill Global.
 
“Mars Hill had to refund to some donors some funds and had to admit that money was not being used for global missions, but being used in the Seattle-based church.”
 
3. Claims of Bullying and Abrasive Management Styles
 
In what Throckmorton calls “arguably the worst week in the history of Mars Hill Church,” as of last week, Driscoll now faces charges from twenty-one former Mars Hill Church Pastors.
 
“Accompanied by a cover letter, briefs on workplace bullying and a summary of the powers of Mars Hill elders, the charges are being leveled by well-respected former pastors and are in the possession of the Mars Hill leadership,” wrote Throckmorton. These documents greatly expand on charges brought by former pastor Dave Kraft.”
 
On March 7 Kraft posted to his blog the following:
 
I addressed these “concerns and issues” by filing “Formal Charges” in May of 2013, which I mentioned in my March 7 Blog Post.
 
On September 19, 2013, I resigned my membership and Eldership, because I have serious questions about the ministry and leadership philosophy/practices of the Executive Elders of MHC, no longer trust them and, therefore, cannot submit to their authority.
Mark Driscoll’s sin(s) (for many of us who know him and have worked with him) are about clear violations of I Timothy 3, Titus 1 and I Peter 5.
 
1.  Not being self-controlled and disciplined
2.  Being domineering
3.  Being verbally violent
4.  Being arrogant
5.  Being quick-tempered
 
4. Driscoll Steps Down Making Room for Review
 
In early August Acts 29, the church planting organization Driscoll co-founded, issued a statement announcing the removal of the controversial pastor and Mars Hill Church from its membership.
 
The statement reads:
“It is with deep sorrow that the Acts 29 Network announces its decision to remove Mark Driscoll and Mars Hill Church from membership in the network. Mark and the Elders of Mars Hill have been informed of the decision, along with the reasons for removal. It is our conviction that the nature of the accusations against Mark, most of which have been confirmed by him, make it untenable and unhelpful to keep Mark and Mars Hill in our network. In taking this action, our prayer is that it will encourage the leadership of Mars Hill to respond in a distinctive and godly manner so that the name of Christ will not continue to be dishonored.”
 
Warren maintains the culmination of issues led to a climax, which resulted in the call for Driscoll’s resignation.
 
On Sunday, August 24, Driscoll addressed his Seattle congregation through a pre-recorded message announcing his decision to step aside allowing for a review of the circumstances.
 
“I want to say to my Mars Hill family, past and present, I’m very sorry. I genuinely mean it,” said Driscoll. “I’m very sorry for the times I’ve been angry, short or insensitive. I’m very sorry for anything I’ve done to distract from our mission by inviting criticism, controversy or negative media attention.”
 
5. Common Thread Among Christian Leaders
 
Many within Christian organizations have experienced the pain and destruction of a fallen leader. Whether it is from a moral failure, abuse of power or financial issues, leaders contend there is a common thread among those who fall from grace.
 
Sadly, Driscoll joins a long list of fallen leaders, including the likes of Bill Gothard, Ted Haggard, James MacDonald and Steven Furtick.
 
Smith contends leaders of high stature place themselves in positions lacking in accountability and transparency.
 
“They get so powerful that no one feels they can confront them or speak into their lives for fear of losing their jobs or influence,” said Warren. “Driscoll becomes a celebrity and people think it is cool to know him. “If you are friends with a celebrity there is something perverse that makes us feel that we are accomplished ourselves, which is damaging to ourselves and to the church.”
 
Throckmorton agrees.
 
“Mark Driscoll said he is stepping down to reflect while serious charges are examined,” said Throckmorton. “However, the same people who dismissed earlier charges will examine the new ones. There is no true elder board at Mars Hill Church to which Driscoll is accountable. There is reason to question the objectivity of the process.”
 
 
Russ Jones is co-founder of Christian News Service, a content creation and news distribution firm. He's also a media consultant to a number of cause oriented campaigns and organizations. Russ has been a guest on such programs as the Mike Gallagher Show, the Dennis Prager Show, Bill Martinez Live and Sandy Rios in the Morning. He holds degrees from the University of Missouri-Columbia and a master’s degree from St. Paul School of Theology. He is married to Jackie and together they have four children.
 
Publication date: August 26, 2014

http://www.christianheadlines.com/news/5-things-christians-need-to-know-about-the-mark-driscoll-scandals.html


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Mars Hill church
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on August 27, 2014, 10:16:22 am
This is just my opinion on this...

The reason why I think that once in a blue moon they will "expose" one of their so-called "influentials" like Driscoll is so that the establishment can make an "example" of them, and in turns they can make themselves look good like they exposed a wolf, and give themselves a pat on the back.

Seriously - does anyone really think Rick Warren exercises the least bit of honesty and integrity?(aside from his false doctrines, that is) Does anyone really think he writes his own books, amidst his very busy travel schedules and trying to upkeep one of the largest churches in America? Does anyone really think he keeps an honest accountability will all the MILLIONS of dollars he's handling at his church?(which has north of $90m budget)

Or how about Billy/Franklin Graham? Bill Hybels? Brian McLaren? Rob Bell?

And as for all of the books these people supposedly write - I'm not trying to belittle anyone, but as the years have gone by, the American public have by and large read less and less(as they expose themselves to visual media as there's more accessibleness to them via tv, PCs, iphones, etc) - for example, I highly doubt Warren's and Graham's books are read much(as they probably use the same tactics of buying out their own books in chunks to make it look good on these best-seller lists).

IOW - if someone in the establishment starts to become an embarassment, they will at least to some extent be outed - and subsequently while they end up getting all the attention, it ultimately ends up being a smokescreen b/c the the wolves in the fold like Warren, Hybels, and Graham will continue to push their agendas.


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Mars Hill church
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on August 29, 2014, 07:46:49 pm
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/28/pastors-letter-mark-driscoll_n_5731444.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592
8/28/14
Mars Hill Pastors' Letter To Mark Driscoll Blasts Former Church Leader For Foul Play

RNS) A letter from nine Mars Hill Church pastors to their fellow elders offers the most trenchant criticism yet of controversial megachurch pastor Mark Driscoll, who recently stepped down for at least six weeks amid a series of accusations.

The pastors did not mince words in their lengthy Aug. 22 letter [full text] concerning Driscoll, who has been caught up in allegations that include plagiarism, inappropriate use of church funds and abuse of power:

* [W]e direct that he steps down from ministry, submitting himself under the authority of the elders of the church, who will oversee the details of his restoration plan.
* He must step down not only from the pulpit, but from all aspects of ministry and leadership.
* He will continue to receive his salary so long as he continues to cooperate with the restoration plan set before him by the elders of Mars Hill Church.

The letter was posted within a Mars Hill online network and provided to Warren Throckmorton, a Grove City College psychology professor who has been blogging updates about Mars Hill.

The 4,000-word letter suggests there were insufficient layers of accountability at Mars Hill, a congregation of an estimated 14,000 people at 15 locations in five states, and that power was consolidated at the top with Driscoll given free rein to do what he wanted.

The pastors included quotes from conversations with Paul Tripp, a widely respected evangelical pastor who is seen as a “pastor to pastors” and was on the Mars Hill’s Board of Advisors and Accountability before he resigned in June.

“This is without a doubt, the most abusive, coercive ministry culture I’ve ever been involved with,” Tripp is quoted saying in the letter.

One of Tripp’s concerns was the way the church governance was set up.

“You can’t have a church culture where you essentially have a very tight circle and everyone else is your enemy,” he said.

Tripp declined to an interview request.

“This letter, as with past letters voicing accusations toward Mark Driscoll will be processed in accordance with Article 12 of the church’s bylaws,” a statement provided by public relations firm head Mark DeMoss said. “This means the accusations will be thoroughly examined and a report issued when the review is complete. In the meantime, it does not seem appropriate to comment on specific accusations before/while they are being formally reviewed as we don’t want to circumvent the process prescribed by the governing body of Mars Hill.”

The church’s bylaws, which spell out how the church is governed, are not public. It’s also unclear what the governing body entails, as DeMoss was unavailable to respond to more questions. The pastors in the letter suggest that the bylaws do not offer church elders much authority.

“While the current bylaws greatly restrict our authority, we believe we must act like elders none-the-less,” they write. “It is time to take responsibility for our church, regardless of how much our current bylaws prevent us from exercising that authority.”

The pastors suggest that there has been a lack of transparency from the leadership, especially surrounding Driscoll’s ouster from the Acts 29 Network, a church-planting coalition of more than 500 congregations that he helped found.

“We have been repeatedly told that no one from the A29 board talked to Mark or to our board prior to removing Mark from the network,” the pastors wrote. “The truth is that multiple members of both boards had been in direct contact with each other, and with Mark, exhorting and rebuking him over the course of months and years, and to say or imply otherwise is deeply misleading.”

The pastors also cited issues of “questionable transparency and truth-telling” surrounding church finances and the Mars Hill Global Fund, along with a controversy last year involving a conference on charismatic theology called Strange Fire. In addition, they cite charges that Driscoll plagiarized, inflated his book sales, and sowed confusion around transitions and resignations from its board, including Tripp and pastor James MacDonald.

The letter cited another recent letter, from Mike Wilkerson, who, along with other former Mars Hill pastors, sent a list of allegations to church elders regarding Driscoll. The pastors suggested that the statement put out from the church at the time was misleading.

“Even this Thursday we put out a statement claiming that Wilkerson’s formal charges were being ‘reviewed by the board and the elders,’” the letter from the current pastors stated. “This is misleading as it gives people the impression that the elders as a whole are able to take part in reviewing and adjudicating the case.”

As of Thursday (Aug. 28), Mars Hill would not provide information about who will oversee Driscoll during his time off from the pulpit; neither did it provide a copy of the church bylaws requested by Religion News Service.

The pastors’ letter ends by quoting a sermon from Driscoll from 2006.

“I just shudder to say this, but if I should ever say or do anything that the elders would need to fire me, do not be loyal to me,” Driscoll said. “Be loyal to Jesus; be loyal to your elders. Be loyal to the pastors in your church.”


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Mars Hill church
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on September 09, 2014, 10:37:37 pm
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/08/mars-hill-church-closures_n_5784804.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592
9/8/14
Mars Hill Church Begins Church Closures Due To Financial Trouble

Mars Hill Church announced on Sunday the closure of three of its church locations due to financial strain, with a possible fourth on the horizon.

Downtown Seattle and U-District churches in Washington will be consolidated with Mars Hill Church Ballard as of October 12th. The Mars Hill Church in Phoenix will close its doors on September 28th. The organization also announced that it has ceased development of a Los Angeles church plant and may be forced to close its Huntington Beach location if it is unable to raise funds by the end of the year.

"We have found ourselves in a serious financial situation, as giving and attendance has declined more than we had anticipated over the last few months," Mars Hill Communications & Editorial Manager Justin Dean told HuffPost by email.

The closures mark another blow to the organization, which has found itself in the spotlight in recent months over church founder Mark Driscoll's alleged plagiarism and misuse of church funds.

Mars Hill acknowledged on its website that unflattering media coverage may have played a roll in the dip in church donations. In a weekly update the organization wrote:

    It is your continued support that is needed now more than ever. While we were able to end the fiscal year strong, giving and attendance have declined significantly since January. Specifically, we have seen a substantial decrease in tithes and offerings these past two months, due to the increase in negative media attention surrounding our church.

Prior to announcing its financial difficulty, Mars Hill raised nearly $3 million at the end of 2013 in part to fund the planting of its Phoenix location and the replanting of the Huntington Beach location -- as well a much-touted Jesus Festival that disappeared from the church's calendar over the summer.

The church closures leave many wondering what Mars Hill's future will be moving forward.



Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Mars Hill church
Post by: Mark on October 17, 2014, 05:52:36 am
Mark Driscoll Resigns from Mars Hill Church

 Mark Driscoll, the larger-than-life megachurch pastor who has been accused of plagiarism, bullying and an unhealthy ego that alienated his most devoted followers, resigned from his Seattle church Tuesday (Oct. 14), according to a document obtained by RNS.
 
The divisive Seattle pastor had announced his plan to step aside for at least six weeks in August while his church investigated the charges against him. Driscoll’s resignation came shortly after the church concluded its investigation.
 
“Recent months have proven unhealthy for our family — even physically unsafe at times — and we believe the time has now come for the elders to choose new pastoral leadership for Mars Hill,” Driscoll wrote in his resignation letter.
 
Driscoll was not asked to resign from the church he started 18 years ago, according to a letter from the church’s board of overseers. “Indeed, we were surprised to receive his resignation letter,” they wrote.
 
Seven elders and one member of the board of overseers conducted this investigation, and the board of overseers provided findings and conclusions:
 

    “We concluded that Pastor Mark has, at times, been guilty of arrogance, responding to conflict with a quick temper and harsh speech, and leading the staff and elders in a domineering manner. While we believe Mark needs to continue to address these areas in his life and leadership, we do not believe him to be disqualified from pastoral ministry.”
    “Pastor Mark has never been charged with any immorality, illegality or heresy. Most of the charges involved attitudes and behaviors reflected by a domineering style of leadership.”
    “We found some of the accusations against Pastor Mark to be altogether unfair or untrue.”
    “Other charges had been previously addressed by Pastor Mark, privately and publicly. Indeed, he had publicly confessed and apologized for a number of the charges against him, some of which occurred as long as 14 years ago.”

In his resignation letter, Driscoll noted that he was not being disqualified from future ministry.
 
“You have also shared with me that many of those making charges against me declined to meet with you or participate in the review process at all,” Driscoll wrote. “Consequently, those conducting the review of charges against me began to interview people who had not even been a party to the charges.”
 
Driscoll hinted, though, that his continued presence would be a distraction.
 
“Prior to and during this process there have been no charges of criminal activity, immorality or heresy, any of which could clearly be grounds for disqualification from pastoral ministry,” Driscoll wrote.
 
“Other issues, such as aspects of my personality and leadership style, have proven to be divisive within the Mars Hill context, and I do not want to be the source of anything that might detract from our church’s mission to lead people to a personal and growing relationship with Jesus Christ.”
 
Driscoll’s boisterous personality seemed to dominate Mars Hill, a congregation he built up to an estimated 14,000 people at 15 locations across five states. Weekly attendance is now reportedly about 7,600.
 
“The Board of Overseers has accepted that resignation and is moving forward with planning for pastoral transition, recognizing the challenge of such a task in a church that has only known one pastor since its founding,” states the letter, signed by Michael Van Skaik, Larry Osborne, Jon Phelps and Matt Rogers.
 
Mars Hill shuttered its Downtown Seattle and University of Washington District churches due to financial challenges.
 
“During the month of August, we received $1,552,817 and expenses were $2,222,274, so our net over expenses (loss) after depreciation and capitalizing assets was $647,768,” stated a report released to church members in September and obtained by World magazine. “Our income target was $1,842,414, and we missed this target by almost 16 percent.”
 
Driscoll, who came into evangelical prominence as multisite churches and podcasts rose in popularity, found a niche within a largely secular Northwest culture. Though he has been controversial for years for statements on women and sexuality, several tipping points likely led up to Driscoll’s resignation.
 
Driscoll admitted to and apologized for comments he made under the pseudonym “William Wallace II” that were critical of feminism, homosexuality and “sensitive emasculated” men.
 
The church-planting network he founded, Acts 29, removed Driscoll from its membership after influential leaders such as Paul Tripp and James MacDonald stepped down from helping the church. LifeWay Christian Resources, the nation’s second largest Christian book retailer, pulled Driscoll’s books from its website and its 186 stores.
 
In the past, Driscoll has been provocative, occasionally profane, and has faced more recent allegations of plagiarism and inflating his book sales. “Mistakes were made that I am grieved by and apologize for,” he said late last year of plagiarism charges.
 
A front-page story in The New York Times on Aug. 23 had suggested that Driscoll’s empire was “imploding.”
 
“He was really important — in the Internet age, Mark Driscoll definitely built up the evangelical movement enormously,” Timothy Keller, the senior pastor of Redeemer Presbyterian Church in New York, told the Times. “But the brashness and the arrogance and the rudeness in personal relationships — which he himself has confessed repeatedly — was obvious to many from the earliest days, and he has definitely now disillusioned quite a lot of people.”
 
During Driscoll’s planned sabbatical, elders within his own church asked him to step down from all aspects of ministry. All nine elders who signed the letter resigned or were laid off.
 
Members of Mars Hill have sought more transparency from church leadership. A petition was launched requesting the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability to suspend Mars Hill’s membership over allegations of financial impropriety.
 
At the height of his influence and popularity, Driscoll admitted that he harbored grand ambitions, both for himself and the church he built from scratch.
 
“I’m a guy who is highly competitive,” Driscoll said in a 2006 sermon. “Every year, I want the church to grow. I want my knowledge to grow. I want my influence to grow. I want our staff to grow. I want our church plants to grow. I want everything — because I want to win.”
 
Driscoll conceded that he wouldn’t be content with remaining the same.
 
“That’s my own little idol and it works well in a church because no one would ever yell at you for being a Christian who produces results. So I found the perfect place to hide,” he said.
 
“And I was thinking about it this week. What if the church stopped growing? What if we shrunk? What if everything fell apart? What if half the staff left? Would I still worship Jesus or would I be a total despairing mess? I don’t know. By God’s grace, I won’t have to find out, but you never know.”

http://www.christianheadlines.com/news/mark-driscoll-resigns-from-mars-hill-church.html


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Mars Hill church
Post by: Mark on October 27, 2014, 07:25:02 am
Mark Driscoll Getting Death Threats, Attacks at Home

 Former Mars Hill Pastor Mark Driscoll said this week that his family is experiencing “a very trying season,” including death threats, attacks and night terrors.
 
Driscoll spoke briefly at the 2014 Gateway Conference on Monday. He was originally scheduled to speak at the conference, but chose to just attend.
 
Gateway Pastor Robert Morris asked Driscoll to come on stage and Driscoll asked for prayers.
 
 "We've had a very trying season and (I'm) just trying to figure out how to be a good pastor to my family first. We all know that's the most important thing."
 
"We've got five kids, three boys, two girls ages eight to seventeen. We've moved three times for safety issues: people arrested at our home, death threats, address posted online, all kinds of things and more recently it's gotten more severe," he said.
 
Driscoll said rusty nails have been placed in his driveway and that he and his children were attacked when camping in their backyard.
 
Driscoll resigned as pastor of the church he founded in 1996 after accusations of plagiarism and comments he made on the church’s website from years ago surfaced.
 
Driscoll said in his resignation letter that he is "an imperfect messenger of the gospel of Jesus Christ."
 

http://www.christianheadlines.com/blog/mark-driscoll-getting-death-threats-attacks-at-home.html

Quote
including death threats, attacks and night terrors.

I really hate to see this stuff go on. No true Christian would do those things. Especially to his family. But what do you expect from his apostate church members?

Quote
night terrors.

I would like more explanation on this one...

Night Terrors Overview


The sleep disorder of night terrors typically occurs in children aged 3-12 years, with a peak onset in children aged 3½ years.

Sleep is divided into 2 categories: rapid eye movement (REM) and nonrapid eye movement (non-REM). Non-REM sleep is further divided into 4 stages, progressing from stages 1-4. Night terrors occur during the transition from stage 3 non-REM sleep to stage 4 non-REM sleep, beginning approximately 90 minutes after the child falls asleep.

Night terrors are distinctly different from the much more common nightmares, which occur during REM sleep. Night terrors are characterized by frequent recurrent episodes of intense crying and fear during sleep, with difficulty arousing the child. Night terrors are frightening episodes that disrupt family life.

A small percentage of children experience night terrors. Boys and girls are equally affected. Children of all races also seem to be affected equally. The disorder usually resolves during adolescence.
http://www.emedicinehealth.com/night_terrors/article_em.htm

This is also associated with demonic "alien" abductions.... Wonder if that is what he is talking about?


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Mars Hill church
Post by: Psalm 51:17 on October 31, 2014, 08:27:54 pm
http://news.yahoo.com/seattle-megachurch-dissolves-founder-resigns-231406002.html
Seattle megachurch dissolves after founder resigns
10/31/14

SEATTLE (AP) — Two weeks after lead Mars Hill Church pastor Mark Driscoll resigned amid questions about his leadership, the Seattle megachurch he founded announced Friday it was dissolving its network of branches across four states.

The church said on its website that the best future for its branches would be for them to becoming "autonomous self-governed entities."

"This means that each of our locations has an opportunity to become a new church, rooted in the best of what Mars Hill has been in the past, and independently led and run by its own local elder teams," Pastor Dave Bruskas wrote on the church's website.

The existing Mars Hill Church organization will be dissolved.

The megachurch's controversial founder resigned as elder and lead pastor on Oct. 14, following an investigation into formal charges brought against him.

The church currently has multiple branches in Washington, and one location each in Oregon, California and New Mexico. Last month, it closed its Phoenix location as a Mars Hill church.

Driscoll's resignation came after a group of church elders recently ended an investigation into the charges.

Driscoll took a leave of absence in August so church leaders could investigate whether he was fit to lead. He faced accusations that he bullied members, threatened opponents, lied and oversaw mismanagement of church funds, the Seattle Times has reported.

The church said it found Driscoll had a domineering style with a quick temper and harsh speech, but it noted he was never charged with immorality or heresy.

On Friday, Bruskas said on the church's website that central Mars Hill staff would be compensated for their work and then let go, and that church properties would be sold off or individual property loans would be taken over by independent branches.

Local leaders and pastors will decide whether to become independent, merge with an existing church or disband.

"Mars Hill Church has never been about a building or even an organization," Bruskas wrote. "Mars Hill is a people on mission with Jesus, and that singular focus continues as these newly independent churches are launched."

The church says it hopes the reorganization plan will be completed by Jan. 1.


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Mars Hill church
Post by: Mark on December 26, 2014, 02:37:28 pm
Mars Hill Turning Over Pulpit to Rick Warren to Deliver Final Message Before Closing

Mars Hill has accepted an offer from megachurch leader and author Rick Warren to deliver the final message to the congregation this Sunday as it closes its doors following the resignation of Mark Driscoll.

“This Sunday, December 28th, will be our final Sunday as Mars Hill Church,” the website for Mars Hill reads. “Our dear friend Pastor Rick Warren from Saddleback Church has graciously offered to preach the final sermon for us.”

As previously reported, Driscoll temporarily stepped down from his leadership position at Mars Hill in August during a six-week review of charges lodged by 21 former pastors who accused him of abusing his power. He expressed his regret for his actions at that time.

“God is not honored by conflict, strife, disunity, arguing, slander, gossip, or anything else that is inconsistent with the fruit of the spirit, and I am deeply sorry, genuinely sorry, for the times I have not lived peaceably with all men,” Driscoll said.

Two months later, he resigned from Mars Hill Church, stating that he did not wish to continue to be a distraction to the ministry although the formal review cleared him of moral wrongdoing.

“By God’s grace I have pastored Mars Hill Church for 18 years. Today, also by God’s grace, and with the full support of my wife Grace, I resign my position as a pastor and elder of Mars Hill,” Driscoll wrote in a letter to Michael Van Skiak, the chairman of the Board of Advisors and Accountability over Mars Hill Church. “I do so with profound sadness, but also with complete peace.”

Following Driscoll’s departure, the leaders of Mars Hill, which has campuses throughout Washington and also one each in California, Oregon and New Mexico, decided to dissolve the ministry. They outlined on the Mars Hill website this week that some of the congregations will continue on their own.

    Connect with Christian News

“As we reflect on over eighteen years of ministry, and ultimately close the doors on Mars Hill Church, we are thankful that many of our churches will continue as new independent, autonomous churches,” the leadership wrote. “While Mars Hill Church will cease to exist, God’s work through his people will continue.”

It was also noted that Rick Warren, author of the “The Purpose Driven Life” and leader of Saddleback Church in California, will deliver the final message to the congregation this Sunday.

“Each of our churches will be showing a special message from Pastor Rick, based on John 12:24,” the Mars Hill website outlines.

As previously reported, Driscoll invited Warren to speak at his “Resurgence” leadership conference in 2012, and released a nearly 7-minute video outlining his reasons for the invitation, knowing that many would question his decision.

“He has people who love him and hate him, and I am, quite frankly, one of the guys who really appreciates him,” he explained. “[H]e actually does things, and has something to teach us if we’re actually humble enough to learn it.”

However, the appearance generated controversy as some have expressed concerns about Warren since the release of his best-selling book “The Purpose Driven Life.”

“He seemingly seeks to be all things to all men,” stated writer Tim Challies. “[W]hen it comes to Warren, there appears to be a great deal of malleability. He will be one thing for one audience and another thing for another audience. He will move seamlessly back and forth. He will be A and then not A as the situation demands.”

In 2007, Warren invited Hillary Clinton to speak at his “Global Summit on Aids and the Church” conference, during which she received a standing ovation. Barack Obama had also been invited to speak the year prior.

In 2009, Warren spoke at the annual convention of the Islamic Society of North America. At the event, he called upon “Muslims and Christians to form an interfaith coalition to combat prejudice and stereotypes.” Sayyid Syeed, one of the Islamic Society’s leaders, has confirmed that he and Warren have worked together on projects addressing the epidemics of malaria and AIDS.

Warren was also invited to deliver the invocation during the 2009 inauguration ceremony for Barack Obama. The openly homosexual “bishop” Gene Robinson was similarly asked to deliver the benediction. When Warren learned of Robinson’s appointment, he applauded the selection, stating that it was rightly done “all in the name of common ground.”

Most recently, Warren was featured in an interview released by the Catholic News Service, during which he called upon Christians and Roman Catholics to work together in defending the sanctity of life and family, likewise urging cooperation in the name of common ground. Warren had just finished speaking at a Vatican interfaith conference on the “Complementarity of Man and Woman.”

http://christiannews.net/2014/12/25/mars-hill-turning-over-pulpit-to-rick-warren-to-deliver-final-message-before-closing/


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Mars Hill church
Post by: Mark on April 22, 2015, 08:07:40 am
Mark Driscoll Makes Comeback with Online Leadership Videos

 Mark Driscoll, former lead pastor of Mars Hill Church, has posted videos online that give biblical leadership advice. The videos were created from 2011 to 2014, according to Christian Today.
 
Patheos reports an email from Driscoll introducing the videos said, “Being a leader is wonderfully complicated. Whether it’s leading in family, business, or ministry, leaders face particular challenges that make simultaneous joy and fruitfulness difficult.
 
“By the grace of God, I would like to help if I can. So, I’m starting something new called ‘Leadership Coaching with Pastor Mark.’
 
The leadership videos are posted on markdriscoll.org, a website the pastor created after resigning from his position as Mars Hill lead pastor.
 
Driscoll previously fell from grace after allegations arose of misuse of church funds, misogynist views, and intimidation of church leaders. 

http://www.christianheadlines.com/blog/mark-driscoll-makes-comeback-with-online-leadership-videos.html


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Mars Hill church
Post by: Mark on February 02, 2016, 11:39:33 pm
Mark Driscoll Announces Launch of New Church in Arizona

Mark Driscoll, former lead pastor of Mars Hill Church, has announced the launch of a new church in Arizona.
 
The Mars Hill complex dissolved after Driscoll’s well-publicized resignation in Oct. 2014. Driscoll had been accused of bullying, plagiarism, emotional abuse and misuse of church funds.
 
Christian Today reports Driscoll’s new church is named The Trinity Church after his wife’s home church in Seattle. It will be located in Phoenix, though the exact address of the church is currently unknown.
 
Four male pastors will serve as a “wise counsel” to the church. They are Larry Osborne, who served on the board of advisers at Mars Hill, Randal Taylor, Jimmy Evans and Robert Morris. Andy Girton and Brandon Anderson, former members staff member at Mars Hill, have been named associate pastors.
 
According to the church’s website, Driscoll “took over a year off from local pastoral ministry to learn, repent, grow, heal, and meet with many people involved.”
 
It continues, "During this time, Pastor Mark and Grace [Driscoll’s wife] walked with professional and pastoral counsel who have all agreed that they and their children are ready to return to local church ministry with a new season and a new church in the new city of Phoenix."


http://www.christianheadlines.com/blog/mark-driscoll-announces-launch-of-new-church-in-arizona.html


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Mars Hill church
Post by: Mark on February 29, 2016, 11:54:19 pm
Mark Driscoll accused of racketeering at Mars Hill Church

Two former Mars Hill Church leaders, including pastor Mark Driscoll, are hit with a racketeering lawsuit, accusing them of fraudulently using thousands if not millions of donor money.

Mark Driscoll may have moved on to a new city and a new church, but he faces the sharpest demand yet to account for his actions at Mars Hill Church.

On Monday, four former Mars Hill members filed a civil racketeering lawsuit against Driscoll, charging that the once swaggering pastor fraudulently used thousands if not millions of dollars raised by the church, which once boasted 15 branches in five states with 13,000 visitors on Sundays.

The suit, filed in U.S. District Court for Western Washington, also names former Mars Hill executive elder John Sutton Turner as a defendant.

A 42-page complaint accuses the two men of raising money for specific purposes and then using the money for other things, including a “scam” designed to make Driscoll a best-selling author.

The racketeering activity was “so deeply embedded, pervasive and continuous, that it was effectively institutionalized as a business practice,” reads the complaint. “A deadly toxin was injected,” it goes on, “ending in the complete destruction of the church.”

That happened in late 2014, when accusations not only of financial improprieties but misogyny, plagiarism and emotional abusiveness led Driscoll to resign and the once mighty church to implode.

Neither Driscoll nor Turner could be reached for comment Monday.

The lawsuit could set an interesting precedent. Brian Fahling, an attorney representing plaintiffs Brian and Connie Jacobsen and Ryan and Arica Kildea, two married couples, said he knew of only one other lawsuit involving racketeering allegations against religious figures.

“I think megachurches do have to be careful,” said Warren Throckmorton, a psychology professor at Pennsylvania’s Grove City College and avid blogger about the Mars Hill saga. Other wealthy churches could face similar questions about who, exactly, is benefiting from moneys raised, he said.

To prove racketeering, the plaintiffs in the Mars Hill suit need to show an ongoing pattern of wrongful acts during a four-year period specified. Fahling claimed that won’t be a problem. “We’ve got hundred or thousands of activities,” he said, including “every time an email was sent to a donor or something was posted to the website.”


The time period starts in 2011 when, the lawsuit says, Driscoll and Turner used church funds to prop up the pastor’s book “Real Marriage.” The suit cites a contract signed by Turner with a marketing company, which was to arrange for the purchase of 11,000 books so that “Real Marriage” would make the best-seller lists of The New York Times and other newspapers.

The company was to buy the books at their retail price of between $18 and $20, rather than the discounted price, $7, available to Driscoll. In all, the books cost $210,000, and the fee to the marketing company another $25,000, according to the lawsuit.

Around the same time, Mars Hill embarked on a major fundraising effort to support its “global fund,” which was supposed to be used for international missions. By 2014, the fund was taking in $300,000 a month. Yet only a small percentage of the money raised was used internationally, according to the suit.

The complaint quotes an internal memo outlining the strategy of designating a percentage of the global fund for a few “highly visible” projects overseas. “This percentage should be flexible,” the memo said, “and not communicated to the public.”

In addition to Driscoll and Turner, the suit names several alleged co-conspirators not listed as defendants. These include the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability (ECFA) and its president, Dan Busby. The Virginia-based group, which accredits Christian groups according to its standards of financial accountability and transparency, gave Mars Hill its blessing, even after questions started surfacing about the global fund.

“ECFA’s accreditation of churches is, at best, a rubber stamp,” the suit alleges. It quotes an internal Mars Hill memo showing that Busby had a 2½-hour meeting with church leaders, during which he said that the church’s response to questions had “100 percent solved the current issue.” (The ECFA referred a reporter to a public-relations representative, who did not return a phone call seeking comment.)


That memo came from Throckmorton, who published portions of it on his blog the morning the suit was filed, showing that new information continues to trickle out despite Mars Hill’s well-chronicled downfall.

The complaint asks for unspecified damages, which would be tripled under racketeering law if the plaintiffs are successful. The Jacobsens, former Mars Hill deacons, contributed more than $90,000 to the church. The Kildeas gave more than $2,700.

What remains to be seen is how all this will affect Driscoll. On Feb. 1, Driscoll announced that he was starting The Trinity Church in Phoenix. He boasted a high-powered group of religious leaders behind him, despite his past in Seattle. It’s a past he refrained from elaborating upon in his announcement video or on his new website, neither of which mention Mars Hill.

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/mark-driscoll-accused-of-racketeering-at-mars-hill-church/


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Mars Hill church
Post by: Mark on June 03, 2016, 01:56:17 pm
‘Their Path Will Lead to Destruction’: Former Mars Hill Pastor Mark Driscoll Reveals the 3 Types of Christians He Says Jesus Might Reject

There is only one type of Christian, the born again kind.  ::)

Pastor Mark Driscoll — who recently planted The Trinity Church in Phoenix, Arizona, a year and a half after resigning from well-known megachurch Mars Hill amid controversy — warned in a blog post this week about the three types of Christians he believes Jesus might reject.

“People tend to be religious by nature, which means they think they can justify themselves in one of three ways,” Driscoll wrote. “First, loosely religious people assume they are living a good enough life and that no spiritual devotion or extra effort is required on their behalf for God to be pleased with them when they stand before God at the end of this life.”

The preacher said that the second group of “secular religious people” might work hard at a social cause and think that they are good people who want to overcome the bad that evil people do in the world. Driscoll then characterized the third group as religious individuals who work hard to keep to the rules and regulations of a faith “in an effort to justify themselves as good and obedient people in the sight of God.”

Driscoll went on to note that Jesus said in the Bible that there is truly no middle ground when it comes to having faith in him.

“People either will or will not respond to his words in faith. For those who respond, his words will lead to life, produce good fruit, and a sturdy foundation,” Driscoll wrote. “For those who don’t, their path will lead to ‘destruction,’ they will be ‘cut down and thrown into the fire,’ and excluded from heaven.”

He continued, “In Matthew 7:21–23, Jesus rebukes false disciples who assume their relationship with Jesus was based upon what they did for him rather than what he did for them.”

Those verses read, “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’”

Throughout the remainder of the text, Driscoll warns Christians to look out for false prophets, the biblical meaning of justification and his claim that “you cannot meet Jesus without changing.”

“The Bible teaches that unjust sinners can be declared just or righteous in God’s sight by being justified, or obtaining justification (Rom. 2:13; 3:20). This legal term appears some 222 times in various forms throughout the New Testament,” Driscoll explained. “‘Justification’ refers to a double transaction whereby God takes away our sinful unrighteousness through Jesus’ substitutionary death in our place on the cross and imputes to us the righteousness of Jesus Christ, thereby giving us positive righteousness.”

The pastor said that it is essential yo change if one wishes to one day meet, though he said that one must be careful not to wage judgements.

“My point in this is not to give you a gavel by which to go around pronouncing judgment on others,” Driscoll concluded. “But rather, for each of us to examine our own life to see if we have truly met Jesus and if so how he has changed us.”

Read his piece in its entirety here.

As TheBlaze has reported, Driscoll resigned from Mars Hill Church in late 2014 after a string of controversies.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2016/06/03/their-path-will-lead-to-destruction-former-mars-hill-pastor-mark-driscoll-reveals-the-3-types-of-christians-he-says-jesus-might-reject/


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Mars Hill church
Post by: Mark on June 20, 2016, 07:46:48 pm
Mark Driscoll Files Motion to Dismiss Abuse of Power, Mismanagement of Funds Lawsuit

 Mark Driscoll, former pastor of Mars Hill Church in Seattle, Washington, has filed a motion aimed at putting to rest the lawsuit against him by Mars Hill Church members.
 
As ChristianHeadlines.com previously reported, Driscoll has been accused by a number of Mars Hill Church members of mismanaging funds. Other allegations against Driscoll include racketeering, plagiarism, and abuse of power.
 
Driscoll has called these allegations “false and malicious,” and is now calling for their complete dismissal, according to blogger Warren Throckmorton at Patheos.com.
 
Driscoll, along with fellow accused church leader Sutton Turner, has called for the lawsuit to be dismissed because the plaintiffs did not pursue their allegations, and it has now been more than 90 days.
 
Driscoll says his whereabouts are well-known and the Mars Hill Church members could have pursued the case had they wanted to.
 
Driscoll now resides in Arizona and is preparing to launch a new church, The Trinity Church in Scottsdale, outside of Phoenix. The church’s first service is scheduled for August 7, although an unofficial service and meet and greet was held on Easter Sunday.

http://www.christianheadlines.com/blog/mark-driscoll-files-motion-to-dismiss-lawsuit-against-him.html


Title: Re: Mark Driscoll & the Mars Hill church
Post by: Mark on August 09, 2016, 11:52:12 am
Mark Driscoll Officially Launches New Church in Arizona

 Controversial megachurch pastor Mark Driscoll has officially launched a new church in Scottsdale, Arizona.
 
Patheos.com blogger Warren Throckmorton reports that Driscoll’s new church, The Trinity Church, is just outside of Phoenix.
 
Although Driscoll had conducted an Easter service at the church, last Sunday, August 7, marked the official launch of the church.
 
Driscoll moved to Arizona to plant the church after he was forced to resign from his position as senior pastor of Mars Hill Church in Seattle. Driscoll had been accused of plagiarism, abuse of power, and racketeering.
 
Throckmorton reports that, although Driscoll had initially agreed to a plan of restoration at Mars Hill, he later alleged that a trap had been set for him and that God wanted him to plant a church elsewhere.
 
There were reportedly 162 cars in The Trinity Church’s parking lot for the church’s first service at 9 a.m. and 170 cars there for the church’s second service at 10:45 a.m.

 Churchgoers were not the only people present, however.
 
A reporter from Seattle was on the seen, and said that he had asked to speak with Driscoll but was denied.
 
There was also a protester who held a sign that accused Driscoll of being power-hungry.

http://www.christianheadlines.com/blog/mark-driscoll-officially-launches-new-church-in-arizona.html