End Times and Current Events

General Category => Biblical Archaeology => Topic started by: Kilika on June 25, 2012, 04:06:30 am

Title: Is Gobekli Tepe evidence of Eden or the Flood?
Post by: Kilika on June 25, 2012, 04:06:30 am
I can't help but feel as though this is actually a tribute site of sorts for the flood. It's not that far from Ararat area, same country anyway. If not the flood, maybe the garden of Eden?

Yep, that would mean also that the flood was just a bit earlier, or, their dating of the site is wrong. But it still really fits a connection to the flood. A curious thing is the tallest ones face southeast. (I wonder if that would change if calculated based on how it was in 9500 bc.)

http://www.eurasianet.org/departments/insight/articles/eav041708a.shtml (http://www.eurasianet.org/departments/insight/articles/eav041708a.shtml)

Turkey: Discovery of 12,000-year-old Temple Complex Could Alter Theory of Human Development

April 16, 2008 - 8:00pm, by Nicholas Birch

As a child, Klaus Schmidt used to grub around in caves in his native Germany in the hope of finding prehistoric paintings. Thirty years later, representing the German Archaeological Institute, he found something infinitely more important -- a temple complex almost twice as old as anything comparable on the planet.
"This place is a supernova", says Schmidt, standing under a lone tree on a windswept hilltop 35 miles north of Turkey's border with Syria. "Within a minute of first seeing it I knew I had two choices: go away and tell nobody, or spend the rest of my life working here."
Behind him are the first folds of the Anatolian plateau. Ahead, the Mesopotamian plain, like a dust-colored sea, stretches south hundreds of miles to Baghdad and beyond. The stone circles of Gobekli Tepe are just in front, hidden under the brow of the hill.
Compared to Stonehenge, Britain's most famous prehistoric site, they are humble affairs. None of the circles excavated (four out of an estimated 20) are more than 30 meters across. What makes the discovery remarkable are the carvings of boars, foxes, lions, birds, snakes and scorpions, and their age. Dated at around 9,500 BC, these stones are 5,500 years older than the first cities of Mesopotamia, and 7,000 years older than Stonehenge.
Never mind circular patterns or the stone-etchings, the people who erected this site did not even have pottery or cultivate wheat. They lived in villages. But they were hunters, not farmers.
"Everybody used to think only complex, hierarchical civilizations could build such monumental sites, and that they only came about with the invention of agriculture", says Ian Hodder, a Stanford University Professor of Anthropology, who, since 1993, has directed digs at Catalhoyuk, Turkey's most famous Neolithic site. "Gobekli changes everything. It's elaborate, it's complex and it is pre-agricultural. That fact alone makes the site one of the most important archaeological finds in a very long time."

With only a fraction of the site opened up after a decade of excavations, Gobekli Tepe's significance to the people who built it remains unclear. Some think the site was the center of a fertility rite, with the two tall stones at the center of each circle representing a man and woman.
It's a theory the tourist board in the nearby city of Urfa has taken up with alacrity. Visit the Garden of Eden, its brochures trumpet, see Adam and Eve.
Schmidt is skeptical about the fertility theory. He agrees Gobekli Tepe may well be "the last flowering of a semi-nomadic world that farming was just about to destroy," and points out that if it is in near perfect condition today, it is because those who built it buried it soon after under tons of soil, as though its wild animal-rich world had lost all meaning.

But the site is devoid of the fertility symbols that have been found at other Neolithic sites, and the T-shaped columns, while clearly semi-human, are sexless. "I think here we are face to face with the earliest representation of gods", says Schmidt, patting one of the biggest stones. "They have no eyes, no mouths, no faces. But they have arms and they have hands. They are makers."

"In my opinion, the people who carved them were asking themselves the biggest questions of all," Schmidt continued. "What is this universe? Why are we here?"
With no evidence of houses or graves near the stones, Schmidt believes the hill top was a site of pilgrimage for communities within a radius of roughly a hundred miles. He notes how the tallest stones all face southeast, as if scanning plains that are scattered with archeological sites in many ways no less remarkable than Gobekli Tepe.

Last year, for instance, French archaeologists working at Djade al-Mughara in northern Syria uncovered the oldest mural ever found. "Two square meters of geometric shapes, in red, black and white - a bit like a Paul Klee painting," explains Eric Coqueugniot, the University of Lyon archaeologist who is leading the excavation.
Coqueugniot describes Schmidt's hypothesis that Gobekli Tepe was meeting point for feasts, rituals and sharing ideas as "tempting," given the site's spectacular position. But he emphasizes that surveys of the region are still in their infancy. "Tomorrow, somebody might find somewhere even more dramatic."

Director of a dig at Korpiktepe, on the Tigris River about 120 miles east of Urfa, Vecihi Ozkaya doubts the thousands of stone pots he has found since 2001 in hundreds of 11,500 year-old graves quite qualify as that. But his excitement fills his austere office at Dicle University in Diyarbakir.

"Look at this", he says, pointing at a photo of an exquisitely carved sculpture showing an animal, half-human, half-lion. "It's a sphinx, thousands of years before Egypt. Southeastern Turkey, northern Syria - this region saw the wedding night of our civilization."

Editor's note:
 Nicolas Birch specializes in Turkey, Iran and the Middle East. 

Title: Re: Is Gobekli Tepe evidence of Eden or the Flood?
Post by: Kilika on June 25, 2012, 04:17:13 am
Here's the Eden angle...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1157784/Do-mysterious-stones-mark-site-Garden-Eden.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1157784/Do-mysterious-stones-mark-site-Garden-Eden.html)

Do these mysterious stones mark the site of the Garden of Eden?

By Tom Knox
UPDATED: 06:10 EST, 5 March 2009


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1157784/Do-mysterious-stones-mark-site-Garden-Eden.html#ixzz1ynLPfaJM

Title: Re: Is Gobekli Tepe evidence of Eden or the Flood?
Post by: Kilika on June 25, 2012, 04:24:55 am
Archeologist claims site is evidence of Eden

http://www.andrewcollins.com/page/news/gobekli_eden.htm (http://www.andrewcollins.com/page/news/gobekli_eden.htm)

Incredible new developments are afoot surrounding the discovery of Gobekli Tepe, billed as the Oldest Temple in the World. The last year of excavations at the 11,500-year-old proto-Neolithic site close to Sanliurfa (ancient Eddessa) and the ancient Sabian city of Harran, has uncovered a large number of beautiful carved statues, including headless humans, lizards, wild birds, serpents and, I'm always happy to reveal, vultures. In addition to this, 20 new cult rooms have been unearthed locally.

Klaus Schmidt of the German Archaeological Institute (pic credit: Sean Thomas)

 The headless human figures are a puzzle for the archaelogist Dr Klaus Schmidt of the German Archaeological Institute. However, as I revealed in FROM THE ASHES OF ANGELS, GODS OF EDEN and in the new book, they surely represent den uded bodies undergoing the process of excarnation. Their heads are missing because these were the symbol of the soul, shown in Neolithic murals found at the Neolithic city of Catal Huyuk in Southern Turkey and dating to 6500 BC as being escorted into the afterlife by vultures, the ultimate bird associated with the Neolithic cult of the dead in the Near East. They were seen as psychopomps, soul-carriers, the role played by swan and goose (and sometimes the crow or raven) in Europe...


Title: Re: Is Gobekli Tepe evidence of Eden or the Flood?
Post by: Kilika on June 25, 2012, 04:34:22 am
Gobekli site now considered a house, not a temple?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2050908/Gobekli-Tepe-Temple-thats-6-500-years-older-Stonehenge-house.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2050908/Gobekli-Tepe-Temple-thats-6-500-years-older-Stonehenge-house.html)

Piles of ancient rubbish could prove incredible temple that's 6,500 years older than Stonehenge was actually a house

By Martin Robinson
UPDATED: 07:56 EST, 19 October 2011

It has long been considered the world's oldest temple and even thought by some to be the site of the Garden of Eden.
But a scientist has claimed that the Gobekli Tepe stones in Turkey, built in 9,000 BC and 6,500 years older than Stonehenge, could instead be a giant home 'built for men not gods'.

Ted Banning, a professor at the University of Toronto, has branded it 'one of the world's biggest garbage dumps,' with piles of animal bones, tools and charcoal found there proving that it was an ancient home rather than a religious site.


When excavation started at Gobekli Tepe in southern Turkey in 1994, archaeologists were sure it was a temple and largely uninhabited.
Remarkably it was deliberately buried under thousands of tonnes of soil and only a small amount of the 20-acre area has been excavated since its discovery.

The incredible site was put up long before humans mastered language or skills like pottery or metal work, making it one of the true wonders of the world pre-dating any previously discovered religious site by 1,000 years.

I think it's interesting that the rivers mentioned in Genesis are to the southeast of this site.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2050908/Gobekli-Tepe-Temple-thats-6-500-years-older-Stonehenge-house.html#ixzz1ynPcmwOr

Title: Re: Is Gobekli Tepe evidence of Eden or the Flood?
Post by: Kilika on June 25, 2012, 04:41:22 am
http://www.archaeology.org/0811/abstracts/turkey.html (http://www.archaeology.org/0811/abstracts/turkey.html)

The World's First Temple 

Volume 61 Number 6, November/December 2008 
by Sandra Scham


At first glance, the fox on the surface of the limestone pillar appears to be a trick of the bright sunlight. But as I move closer to the large, T-shaped megalith, I find it is carved with an improbable menagerie. A bull and a crane join the fox in an animal parade etched across the surface of the pillar, one of dozens erected by early Neolithic people at Göbekli Tepe in southeastern Turkey. The press here is fond of calling the site "the Turkish Stonehenge," but the comparison hardly does justice to this 25-acre arrangement of at least seven stone circles. The first structures at Göbekli Tepe were built as early as 10,000 B.C., predating their famous British counterpart by about 7,000 years.

The oldest man-made place of worship yet discovered, Göbekli Tepe is "one of the most important monuments in the world," says Hassan Karabulut, associate curator of the nearby Urfa Museum. He and archaeologist Zerrin Ekdogan of the Turkish Ministry of Culture guide me around the site. Their enthusiasm for the ancient temple is palpable.

By the time of my visit in late summer, the excavation team lead by Klaus Schmidt of the German Archaeological Institute has wrapped up work for the season. But there is still plenty to see, including three excavated circles now protected by a large metal shelter. The megaliths, which may have once supported roofs, are about nine feet tall.

Göbekli Tepe's circles range from 30 to 100 feet in diameter and are surrounded by rectangular stone walls about six feet high. Many of the pillars are carved with elaborate animal figure reliefs. In addition to bulls, foxes, and cranes, representations of lions, ducks, scorpions, ants, spiders, and snakes appear on the pillars. Freestanding sculptures depicting the animals have also been found within the circles. During the most recent excavation season, archaeologists uncovered a statue of a human and sculptures of a vulture's head and a boar.

As we walk around the recently excavated pillars, the site seems at once familiar and exotic. I have seen stone circles before, but none like these.

Left to right: T-shaped pillars at Göbekli Tepe depict two boars accompanied by ostrich-like birds, a crocodile-like creature, and vultures flying above a scorpion. (Haldun Aydingün)

Excavations have revealed that Göbekli Tepe was constructed in two stages. The oldest structures belong to what archaeologists call the early Pre-Pottery Neolithic A period, which ended around 9000 B.C. Strangely enough, the later remains, which date to the Pre-Pottery Neolithic B period, or about 8000 B.C., are less elaborate. The earliest levels contain most of the T-shaped pillars and animal sculptures.

Archaeologist Klaus Schmidt downplays extravagant spiritual interpretations of Göbekli Tepe, such as the idea, made popular in the press, that the site is the inspiration for the Biblical Garden of Eden. But he does agree that it was a sanctuary of profound significance in the Neolithic world. He sees it as a key site in understanding the transition from hunting and gathering to agriculture, and from tribal to regional religion.

Schmidt and his colleagues estimate that at least 500 people were required to hew the 10- to 50-ton stone pillars from local quarries, move them from as far as a quarter-mile away, and erect them. How did Stone Age people achieve the level of organization necessary to do this? Hauptmann speculates that an elite class of religious leaders supervised the work and later controlled the rituals that took place at the site. If so, this would be the oldest known evidence for a priestly caste--much earlier than when social distinctions became evident at other Near Eastern sites.

Klaus Schmidt of the German Archaeological Institute believes Göbekli Tepe attracted small nomadic groups from numerous regions throughout southeastern Anatolia. (Haldun Aydingün)

Before the discovery of Göbekli Tepe, archaeologists believed that societies in the early Neolithic were organized into small bands of hunter-gatherers and that the first complex religious practices were developed by groups that had already mastered agriculture. Scholars thought that the earliest monumental architecture was possible only after agriculture provided Neolithic people with food surpluses, freeing them from a constant focus on day-to-day survival. A site of unbelievable artistry and intricate detail, Göbekli Tepe has turned this theory on its head.

Schmidt believes the people who created these massive and enigmatic structures came from great distances. It seems certain that once pilgrims reached Göbekli Tepe, they made animal sacrifices. Schmidt and his team have found the bones of wild animals, including gazelles, red deer, boars, goats, sheep, and oxen, plus a dozen different bird species, such as vultures and ducks, scattered around the site. Most of these animals are depicted in the sculptures and reliefs at the site.

There is still much that we don't understand about religious practices at Göbekli Tepe, Schmidt cautions. But broadly speaking, the animal images "probably illustrate stories of hunter-gatherer religion and beliefs," he says, "though we don't know at the moment." The sculptors of Göbekli Tepe may have simply wanted to depict the animals they saw, or perhaps create symbolic representations of the animals to use in rituals to ensure hunting success.

Schmidt has another theory about how Göbekli Tepe became a sacred place. Though he has yet to find them, he believes that the first stone circles on the hill of the navel marked graves of important people. Hauptmann's team discovered graves at Nevali Cori, and Schmidt is reasonably confident that burials lie somewhere in the earliest layers of Göbekli Tepe. This leads him to suspect the pillars represent human beings and that the cult practices at this site may initially have focused on some sort of ancestor worship. The T-shaped pillars, he points out, look like human bodies with the upper part of the "T" resembling a head in profile. Once, Schmidt says, they stood on the hillside "like a meeting of stone beings."

Sandra Scham is ARCHAEOLOGY's Washington, D.C., correspondent and a fellow at the American Association for the Advancement of Science.

Title: Re: Is Gobekli Tepe evidence of Eden or the Flood?
Post by: Kilika on June 25, 2012, 04:44:13 am
Any evidence of Nod?

"And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden." Genesis 4:16 (KJB)

Title: Re: Is Gobekli Tepe evidence of Eden or the Flood?
Post by: Mark on June 25, 2012, 05:45:55 am
. (I wonder if that would change if calculated based on how it was in 9500 bc.)

How do you get that date? 9500 bc?

Discovery of 12,000-year-old Temple Complex Could Alter Theory of Human Development

Really? How did they get that date? seriously, how do they know its 12,000 years old? they made it up.

I can't help but feel as though this is actually a tribute site of sorts for the flood. It's not that far from Ararat area, same country anyway. If not the flood, maybe the garden of Eden?

Here's the Eden angle..

your kidding right? you've totally lost me?

Title: Re: Is Gobekli Tepe evidence of Eden or the Flood?
Post by: Mark on June 25, 2012, 06:15:08 am
There is no proof what so ever that Eden or the World that Noah knew was ever in the middle east of today. The names are familiar, but that is because when humans move they tend to call the new places names of old places. Just look at all the places in America. They are all almost named for somewhere else. Now that being said, the world was flooded for over a year, and many changes took place. Eden very well could have been somewhere in the southern pacific basin for all anyone knows. So when people say they have evidence for Eden, well its just an impossibility as no one knows where to look for it.

Now the Ice Age began after the flood, really after the days of Peleg when the Earth finally settled and all the continents came to rest where they are now. And this is easily proven just from nautical maps going back in time ans watching the size of glaciers grow. Also the older the map, the more sophisticated and accurate it is. Really an amazing study.

So could this be one of the first settlements after the flood? sure... 12,000 years old?  :D never... Eden, impossible.

Now if you want to see a pre flood or at least pre Peleg site, look no farther than Tiahuanacu in the Bolivian Andes.

Title: Re: Is Gobekli Tepe evidence of Eden or the Flood?
Post by: Kilika on June 25, 2012, 12:48:56 pm
No, God willing I don't kid in this manner.

After reading all your postings, I realized your first question was a bit rhetorical. I obviously didn't come up with any date, but am relating other people's claims. Notice I have questions on this. I both prefaced with a ponderance, and closed with a question. "be ye angry and sin not, let not the sun go down upon your wrath"

Apparently what you know of this topic, you're as passionate about it as about catholics. So I shall  try to tread lightly and explain.

This is not a debate over how long earth has been around, etc, it's just about archeology finds in Turkey. Take it for what it is.

It is claimed stone cannot be dated, thus no way to determine when the carvings MAY have been carved. You can only go by what is carved and compare to known images and take a guess, but more and more, as stuff is discovered and documented, details get clearer.

Answer: I don't know how they get that length of time. Regardless of the when, that place exists.

I'm sorry. I only lost you because I wasn't clear.

At first looking into this, honestly, the flood came to mind, something to do with the flood, because of all the different animals. That's all. I wasn't making some educated scientific statement Mark. These kinds of topics I haven't studied simply because it's unprofitable and vain in the end, as loving God and our neighbors all that matters. How old the earth is is irrelevant.

This Tepe site does seem more like some kind of reference to Eden now that I have read more about it. When was it built? I have no idea. 12,000 years old? I disagree, it could be that old. Show me how it can't be, in another thread. We need an earth age thread stickied anyway.

The Bolivian site I know of from tv specials. It's the obvious carving of the stone that's impressive, and looks mechanically cut. What happen to that site that it's basically scattered about. It's like it just got knocked over and scattered on the ground.

Pre-flood? I have little doubt, and I also believe some of those old sites like that were in part built with the help of fallen angels.

Tepe is more likely pre-flood as well the more I think about it. Also the finds off the Turkish coast, and the coast of Japan. All pre-flood sites I think.

I had to look up the Peleg reference. This is another topic that's seperate, this Peleg theory of continental shifts. We got to talk about this stuff Mark. I'm surprised you are taken in by that "opposition of science falsely so called" ideology.

It's obvious that the scriptures are talking about the divisions of men, not the earth geologically.

Ice Age? You believe that stuff too? How can you prove when it was cold or hot, or even for how long? Another topic!  ;)


Title: Re: Is Gobekli Tepe evidence of Eden or the Flood?
Post by: Mark on June 30, 2012, 06:30:56 pm
C2CAM - Gobekli Tepe & Baltic Sea Mysteries - 06-28-2012 -


Gobekli Tepe & Baltic Sea Mysteries
Thursday June 28, 2012

Over three segments, investigative reporter Linda Moulton Howe discussed the mysterious Gobekli Tepe site in Turkey, where she recently conducted field research along with Prof. of Geology, Robert M. Schoch. She'll also shared an update on the...
Host: George Noory
Guest(s): Linda Moulton Howe, Wynn Free

You need to skip the first 40 minutes as its with a new age nut job. But after that its the last 3 hours with Linda Moulton Howe and her trip to Gobekli Tepe. Where she talks about how there is a totem of some alien giving birth to humans. and another that looks very alien. Hmmm...

Here is the link to her site that has pics of the stuff. http://www.earthfiles.com/

Its well worth the listen so you can see just where Gobekli Tepe is going and what it truly is. Its worth looking into.

Title: Re: Is Gobekli Tepe evidence of Eden or the Flood?
Post by: Kilika on July 01, 2012, 03:21:24 am
Thanks Mark for that info. Haven't seen some of those images of the site. I didn't realize they had uncovered all those sculptures of eagles and lions, etc.

Strange site. And yes, I say it's pre-flood.

Alien-looking creatures? Could those "aliens" be actually fallen angels? Something tells me that these type sites were built by the fallen angels, or as a ceremony site in reference to them as gods. Same with all the other large sites like this with huge cut stones like in Egypt.

And I can't help but notice how close this site is to all the main goings on in that region. And added is that they apparently think the site was intentionally covered over with dirt, like it was being hidden. Strange.

I do think we will see more "Oh WOW" discoveries as time passes that will serve as evidence of what the bible says is true.