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August 08, 2018, 02:38:10 am suzytr says: Hello, any good churches in the Sacto, CA area, also looking in Reno NV, thanks in advance and God Bless you Smiley
January 29, 2018, 01:21:57 am Christian40 says: It will be interesting to see what happens this year Israel being 70 years as a modern nation may 14 2018
October 17, 2017, 01:25:20 am Christian40 says: It is good to type Mark is here again!  Smiley
October 16, 2017, 03:28:18 am Christian40 says: anyone else thinking that time is accelerating now? it seems im doing days in shorter time now is time being affected in some way?
September 24, 2017, 10:45:16 pm Psalm 51:17 says: The specific rule pertaining to the national anthem is found on pages A62-63 of the league rulebook. It states: “The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem. “During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.”
September 20, 2017, 04:32:32 am Christian40 says: "The most popular Hepatitis B vaccine is nothing short of a witch’s brew including aluminum, formaldehyde, yeast, amino acids, and soy. Aluminum is a known neurotoxin that destroys cellular metabolism and function. Hundreds of studies link to the ravaging effects of aluminum. The other proteins and formaldehyde serve to activate the immune system and open up the blood-brain barrier. This is NOT a good thing."
http://www.naturalnews.com/2017-08-11-new-fda-approved-hepatitis-b-vaccine-found-to-increase-heart-attack-risk-by-700.html
September 19, 2017, 03:59:21 am Christian40 says: bbc international did a video about there street preaching they are good witnesses
September 14, 2017, 08:06:04 am Psalm 51:17 says: bro Mark Hunter on YT has some good, edifying stuff too.
September 14, 2017, 04:31:26 am Christian40 says: i have thought that i'm reaping from past sins then my life has been impacted in ways from having non believers in my ancestry.
September 11, 2017, 06:59:33 am Psalm 51:17 says: The law of reaping and sowing. It's amazing how God's mercy and longsuffering has hovered over America so long. (ie, the infrastructure is very bad here b/c for many years, they were grossly underspent on. 1st Tim 6:10, the god of materialism has its roots firmly in the West) And remember once upon a time ago when shacking up b/w straight couples drew shock awe?

Exodus 20:5  Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
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1  General Category / Wolves in Sheeps clothing / Re: Alex Jones paid schill on: February 13, 2013, 12:24:45 pm
Totally agree BA2! Most of the folks there have found their "savior" and his name is Alex Jones. It totally breaks my heart. Seems like the religion forums have been taken over by SDA's as well.
2  General Category / Wolves in Sheeps clothing / Re: Alex Jones paid schill on: February 13, 2013, 10:06:47 am
I never took Alex as a true born again believer, he exudes rotten fruit! I have come to a place in my life where I can't stomach reading PPF anymore. Here is a post that really made me nauseous!

"For 37 years of my life I was a true believer too. Yeah, I knew that "God" told his people to kill everyone in those cities. I was also ok with god killing everyone who doesn't believe in him, including children. I merely accepted these things as collateral damage.

I'm ASHAMED OF MYSELF!

One night I had an epiphany and my faith fell like a house of cards. This happened in 2000. I have to say that this epiphany was made possible in part by listening to Alex Jones on the Radio. My mind started opening because of the ideas presented on his show. I started allowing myself to come to MY OWN conclusions about the fact.

Thank You Alex Jones!

Now? I don't hate the believers unless they use those beliefs against others. I pity the sheep leading themselves to the slaughter.

The old testament is full of intolerance. The new testament started with Jesus preaching tolerance and love but evolved into eternal torture for non believers. Keep it.

If there's one thing I've learned from my years in the religious experience it's that we need to care for the ones around us. Our children need a future of peace and freedom. What will we do to give them a chance?  Get rid of the ignorance. That's the only way they can keep us enslaved to faith.

The more you know.......The less Faith you need.

Tim"
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=35088.120

This on top of the thousands of hopeless people on that site that think they can stop what is coming! They are so blind to the truth! I can clearly see what is coming, but Jesus is in total control! If I wasn't born again I would be a nut job over what is happening to this world and our country!
3  General Category / Fellowship / Re: Help!!!! on: December 12, 2011, 02:59:38 pm
I believe that a born-again Christian cannot be possessed by any other spirit but that of God. When we are drawn away of our own lusts and enticed, that's on us, not some demon. Influenced by, messed with, harassed, sure. Possessed? Nope. I don't believe it is possible. Here's why...

"Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life." John 8:12 (KJB)

 

Amen Kilika! The Holy Spirit lives in us and would not share His space with a demon!
Sounds like some real spiritual warfare going on to me. BA2, put on God's armor, and hit your knees!
4  General Category / General News / Re: Re: PPF...what's the deal with this dude? on: November 30, 2011, 12:52:52 pm
Send the individual a pm and invite him here to answer his questions  Grin
5  General Category / Emergent church / Goodfight ministries trailer for upcoming dvd on the emergent church: on: November 30, 2011, 09:22:43 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9fcBmZRraM&feature=uploademail

Wow to those wolves comments!
6  General Category / War On Family / Re: Dead Wrong How Psychiatric Drugs Can Kill Your Child on: November 28, 2011, 11:38:12 am
Saved
7  General Category / War On Family / Re: What is Ruining All Christian Homes is the TV itself...it needs to be thrown out on: November 15, 2011, 01:22:27 pm
How about this?


 LEGALISM
I. Biblical references to "legalism"

    A. The term "legalism" is not used in the Bible
    B. The concept of "legalism" is found extensively throughout the Bible.
         1. Old Testament
              Isa. 29:13 - (Quoted in Matt. 15:8,9; Mk. 7:6,7
         2. New Testament examples
              Matt. 5:20-28
              Matt. 23:1-28
              Gal. 2:11-21
              Gal. 3:1-3
              Col. 2:16-23

II. Defining some terms

    A. Nomism - law based structure and standards..., enforced by threat of penalty or promise of
         meritorious reward.
         1. Theological - ...to determine spiritual condition or destiny.
         2. Sociological - ...to control human behavior
              a. Government
              b. Religion
    B. Moralism - establishing particular rules, regulations, principles or precepts as the standard           ethical values of a social grouping. Legislated morality and ethics.
    C. Legalism - social or self-acceptance of the observance of law, and conformity to the
         requirements thereof, as the basis of...
         1. Theological determination of spiritual condition or destiny
         2. Sociological/religious control of human behavior
    D. Gospel of grace - the good news of the availability of a spiritual exchange whereby the
            presence of the Spirit of God indwells the spirit of a man, allowing for the character of
            God to be expressed in the behavior of a man by the dynamic empowering and enabling
            of the Spirit of the risen Lord Jesus .

III. Underlying causes of legalism

    A. humanistic concept of self-control - "I'm in control of how things go."
    B. humanistic concept of self-effort, "works" - trying, striving, "I can do it";
         1. "You must do it, keep it, practice it, perform it."
         2. Meritorious benefits therefrom; achieve the goal
    C. false security needs for defined parameters, limitations, borders
    D. work-ethic concept of strict reciprocity - "get what you work for"
    E. punitive concept of getting what one deserves
    F. traditionalism of maintaining status quo
    G. simplism of dividing life into compartments with instant solutions; fundamentalism.
         Got a handle on it - all figured out. Instant solutions - don't have to think or trust.
    H. fear of freedom, of decision-making responsibility (Rom. 8:15)
    I. security need for something that is fixed and static, concrete and tangible. Inordinate need to
         be safe and right
    J. a favorite of sadomasochistic personalities; perfectionists, Pharisees.

IV. Features of legalism

    A. Law-based codes of conduct; rules and regulations, dos and don'ts.
    B. Performance orientation. Expectations, obligations, duties, observances, routines, procedures,
         formulas, how-tos, shoulds, oughts, "thou-shalts"
    C. Negativism, abstinence, "Thou shalt not..."
    D. Legal sense of obedience, rather than Lordship sense of obedience. Obey rules rather than
         God.
    E. Externalization; outward conformity to standards (Matt. 23:5-7; 25-28) F. Inflexible, rigid.          Principle precedes people.
    G. Oppressive, demanding. Burdensome (Lk. 11:46; Matt. 23:1-5)
    H. Authoritarian, manipulative.
    I. Intolerant, violent. Fighting, feuding, hostility, accusations of heresy.
    J. Competitive, comparisons, resentments.
    K. Exclusivism, elitism, bigotry.
    L. Pride, arrogance, self-righteousness, ego-centricity. Badge of honor, status, orthodoxy.
    M. Ostentation, show-off. "How do we look?" (Lk. 15:1,2); approval of men.
    N. Critical, judgmental (Jn. 7:24; Rom. 2:1), suspicious.
    O. Insensitive, unloving, lack of compassion.

V. Consequences of legalism

    A. Keeps people distanced and alienated from God. Afraid of God, the taskmaster. Afraid of
         God's rejection. No assurance or security.
    B. Guilt, condemnation (Rom. 8:1), accusation, disapproval (both objective and subjective).
    C. Defeat, despair, frustration, futility. "It's a losing battle. I can never do enough, be good
         enough, do it right and perfect as expected." Burned out!
    D. Self-destructive behavior; self-belittling, sense of worthlessness, low personal concept of
         oneself.
    E. Hypocrisy. Play-acting; role-playing; lip-service (Matt. 15:8,9). Contrived piety, perfunctory
         performance, pretense, ostentation.
    F. Minimalization. What do I have to do to get by, to side-step the rules? G. Impersonalization;
         shallow personal relationships because they relate to law rather that to Person of Jesus Christ
         and other persons.

VI. The Christian gospel vs. legalism

    A. Contrariety of legalism to Christian gospel
         1. Legalism is contrary to the Grace dynamic of God in Jesus Christ
         2. Legalism is contrary to faith, our receptivity of God's activity; a satanic substitute that
              supplants faith.
         3. Legalism is contrary to the Lordship of Christ, wherein He directs and guides our lives.
         4. Legalism is contrary to Christian obedience, which is "listening under" the direction of the
              living Lord Jesus Christ.
         5. Legalism is contrary to the Spirit-led Christian life, wherein the Spirit of Christ enables and
              empowers. (Eph. 5:18;
         6. Legalism is contrary to freedom in Christ, and the liberty that is to be realized in present
              kingdom living. (John 8:31,32,36; II Cor. 3:17; Gal. 5:1,17)
    B. Reaction and response to legalism by Christians
         1. Christianity is not a legal, judicial, law-based religion
         2. Must not assume that legalism is the only alternative to antinomianism, license or
              libertarianism. (II Tim. 3:5)
         3. Must not assume that legalism is just another innocuous approach to Christian living.
              a. Legalism is the basis of religion that binds people up, and ties them back, to rules,
                  regulations and rituals, thus enslaving them to the sin of self-effort.
              b. Legalism is a radically opposite counterfeit of Christianity
         4. Legalism is sin. (Gal. 3:3; 5:4)
         5. Legalism is idolatrous, setting up an independent standard of law as the basis of rightness,  rather than God's righteousness.
         6. Legalism is not to be tolerated or condoned, but to be exposed and eschewed. (Gal. 1:6-9)
8  General Category / War On Family / Re: What is Ruining All Christian Homes is the TV itself...it needs to be thrown out on: November 15, 2011, 10:03:50 am
Matthew 23:
24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

How is that legalism?

I dont know if you know what legalism is according to the KJV. Pentecostals/Charismatics use the term alot without knowing what Jewish legalism is.

Since this is the second time you have brought this up, perhaps I do not know what you believe legalism means according to the KJV. Would you please enlighten me?
9  General Category / Music / Re: Why can't I worship Devil Bands? on: November 14, 2011, 08:46:16 am
I'm certainly not on the "Christian rock is of the devil" bandwagon, there are some groups out there that truly worship Jesus in their music. Go and listen to the video Dok posted the other day of Jeremy Camp's "the way". No doubt Jeremy is on fire for his Lord and Savior, and it shows in his lyrics!
But when I read lyrics like this:
"Father I'm here to pray in your name,
please push me in the direction of what is best for me"
There is no doubt what their music is all about...and their fruit is rotten.
10  General Category / War On Family / Re: What is Ruining All Christian Homes is the TV itself...it needs to be thrown out on: November 14, 2011, 08:18:31 am
I want to ask you: do you know what legalizing is according to the King James Bible? Could you give us an example?
Matt 23:24  Maybe I used the wrong term? Legalism was what i was striving for.

The Internet is far ahead of TV, one can virtually eliminate the bad stuff if they want to.
And you can't do that with tv? I'm not following you here.
Not really sure what you are getting at here, unless it was my misuse of the term legalism. If that was the case, please accept my apology! Grin
11  General Category / War On Family / Re: What is Ruining All Christian Homes is the TV itself...it needs to be thrown out on: November 10, 2011, 09:14:56 am
So shouldn't you folks get rid of your internet? There is WAY more access to horrible, sinful stuff on the internet than on tv! Some folks are just bound to be pharisees and legalize themselves to death! WORSE, they legalize their brothers and sisters in Christ to death! If you put ANYTHING before God it is an idol...this includes worrying about what others are doing in their walk with the Lord! If God doesn't want you to watch tv, I promise He will convict you through the Holy Spirit. Man, all this time spent legalizing others to death instead of telling the lost how GREAT our God is! Could you imagine the changes we could make in this world (including myself) if we stopped trying to be everyone's Holy Spirit?
I'm not trying to call anyone out in particular, God just put this on my heart and i felt I should share.
Keep the main thing (Jesus) the main thing!
12  General Category / Revelation Prophecy / Re: The PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE DOCTRINE is a HOAX ? on: November 09, 2011, 01:42:26 pm
Again, I'm post-trib, but just wanted to point out that it seems like people in the occult, in particular pseudo-Christian wolves, are against the rapture. C. Peter Wagner(the leader of the NAR) said he used to believe in it(but now believes in kingdom building on earth). While Alex Jones has spoken out against it, he regularly has David Icke on(who put the Steve Jackson INWO rapture game card right behind the "messiah" game card, meaning he probably thinks there will be a mass disappearance shortly after the antichrist's arrival).

Bill Howard, a high level Theosophist, said the NWO has already prepared an "explanation" for all of these "mass disappearances". Charles Stanley is pre-trib, however, he promotes St. Augustine(a Roman Catholic who came up with this A-Mill heretical escatology teaching which says there's no futurism tribulation/antichrist at the end).

Again, I'm still trying to find sources where it says the Freemasons/Vatican/occult came up with pre-trib. I'm firmly post-trib, but again, I really don't like it when people like Dave McPherson puts all these lies to prove post-trib, b/c all it does is hurt the credibility of this.

BA2...you are so pre-trib it isn't funny! LOL! Grin
13  General Category / Music / Re: The Way on: November 09, 2011, 08:19:35 am
Awesome worship song. This is one of the reasons I have issues with the anti-ccm crowd. Sure, there are some in the ccm industry that are just producing music, but this song and many others praise our Lord Jesus!
My 5 year old son loves to sing this song, and he knows he is praising Jesus! It is amazing to hear people wanting to limit what we can use to praise Jesus!
14  General Category / Catholicism / Re: Just saw this... on: November 04, 2011, 10:07:13 am
saved
Me too! Grin
15  General Category / Catholicism / Just saw this... on: November 04, 2011, 09:19:42 am
Now I want to puke.

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/220257-Vatican-Christmas-Shocker-Pope-says-child-****-isn-t-that-bad-was-normal-back-in-his-day
16  General Category / Revelation Prophecy / Re: The PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE DOCTRINE is a HOAX ? on: November 02, 2011, 10:24:09 am
If there is no pre-trib rapture, where is the church after Rev 4? We are not mentioned at all.
17  General Category / Revelation Prophecy / Re: The PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE DOCTRINE is a HOAX ? on: November 01, 2011, 12:44:26 pm

Also the Lord has always compared the rapture and the endtimes to a wedding, and in an ancient jewish wedding, the bride and groom spent 7 days together before coming forth. The trib is 7 years, and he did say he was building us mansions and a feast. so, just a common sense reading shows a pre trib rapture.
 

And who beats up their bride before joining the groom? It just doesn't make sense for the bride of Christ to go through the tribulation!

Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. Rev 3:10
That seems pretty clear to me.
18  General Category / General News / Re: 'Legal highs' should be automatically banned, says government drugs adviser on: October 26, 2011, 11:22:43 am
No, they make money legally on that stuff. The 'legal highs' are disrupting their network of illegal drugs they make a killing off of.

At least we see that therein lies a similarity with the FDA - just because it's been approved by the FDA does not mean it is safe.

Good to see you here dude!
19  General Category / Revelation Prophecy / Re: Pre-trib rapture and antichrist on: October 14, 2011, 12:48:42 pm
Pastor Jack Hyles believes the same as Dr. Mcgee:
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Books,%20Tracts%20&%20Preaching/Printed%20Books/Dr%20Jack%20Hyles/Meet%20The%20Holy%20Spirit/holyspirit_and_the_endtime.htm


2. The rapture of the saints must take place.  2nd Thessalonians 2:7b, "Only He Who now letteth will let, until He be taken out of the way."  The work "let" here means "to hinder."  There seems to be someone hindering the mystery of iniquity.  This someone, of course, is the Holy Spirit.  He does this hindering to His people who are the salt of the earth.  Now notice the words inverse 7, "until He be taken out of the way."  This means the Holy Spirit will continue to hinder the mystery of iniquity until that day comes when He is taken out of the way.  This is the rapture when God's people are caught up to meet the Lord in the air; the dead will raise first, followed by those of us who are alive and remain.  Now notice in II Thessalonians 2:1 the words, "by our gathering together unto Him," which speak of the same event-the rapture.  Read further in 2nd Thessalonians 2:2, 3.  The Apostle says that that day, that is, the tribulation period, cannot come "except there be a falling away first." The term "falling away" is also translated "departure." This, no doubt, speaks of the rapture.
20  General Category / Revelation Prophecy / Re: Pre-trib rapture and antichrist on: October 14, 2011, 12:27:29 pm
This I could see:

 The Bible says that the antichrist will be revealed AFTER the rapture, but the Bible does not say that he won't be politically active before it.  I sincerely believe that the antichrist is already politically active.

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/End%20of%20the%20World/left_behind_at_the_rapture.htm
21  General Category / Revelation Prophecy / Re: Pre-trib rapture and antichrist on: October 14, 2011, 12:23:15 pm
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Books,%20Tracts%20&%20Preaching/Printed%20Books/Golden/sgdb-chap_05.htm

Who Is the Antichrist?

by Pastor Lee Roberson, D.D.

 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called GOD, or that is worshipped; so that he as GOD sitteth in the temple of GOD, shewing himself that he is GOD." — II THESSALONIANS 2:3, 4

The word "Antichrist" is given to us in 1st John 2:18, "Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heart that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time."

"Anti" means against. There is coming one who is against Christ. The Word tells us that this person will reveal himself after the Holy Spirit has been taken out of the way.

"For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved." -- II Thessalonians 2:7-10

The Antichrist will be a man of great power and authority, and will be the personal agent of Satan himself. The Antichrist will be revealed in all his wonder-working power after the rapture of the saints and the taking away of the Holy Spirit. Therefore, the Antichrist will have his great period in the seven years between the rapture of the saints and the revelation of Christ, this period which is known as the Great Tribulation.
22  General Category / Revelation Prophecy / Re: Pre-trib rapture and antichrist on: October 14, 2011, 12:22:04 pm
yep... Jesus himself said to Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.



However, if the ac shows up before the rapture we will have a pretty good idea the rapture will be happening shortly.
23  General Category / Revelation Prophecy / Re: Pre-trib rapture and antichrist on: October 14, 2011, 09:46:04 am
He isnt fully revealed until AFTER the rapture. He comes to power before the Rapture. Im not getting what you do not understand here.  Huh

He rises to power before the rapture, meaning he comes onto the world stage. After the rapture he will be fully empowered and takes over.

Huh

So if he rises to power before the rapture wouldn't the discerning Christian know the rapture is coming soon?
24  General Category / Revelation Prophecy / Re: Pre-trib rapture and antichrist on: October 13, 2011, 12:53:54 pm


He rises to power before the rapture, meaning he comes onto the world stage.


This is what I am not finding anywhere.
BTW, I really appreciate/enjoy this discussion with brothers in Christ!
25  General Category / Revelation Prophecy / Re: Pre-trib rapture and antichrist on: October 13, 2011, 12:37:31 pm
The word "revealed" doesn't mean rise to power.

ἀποκαλύπτω
to uncover
ἀποκαλύπτω
to take off the cover, i.e. disclose
Derivation: from G575 and G2572;
KJV Usage: reveal. G575 G2572
Thayer:
1) to uncover, lay open what has been veiled or covered up
1a) disclose, make bare
2) to make known, make manifest, disclose what before was unknown
26  General Category / Revelation Prophecy / Re: Pre-trib rapture and antichrist on: October 13, 2011, 12:11:02 pm
Then how do you explain this?

 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming.

Me? He who letteth = Holy Spirit, which will be taken out of the way with the rapture of the church. Lawlessness will run rampant, then the ac will be revealed, coming on the scene offering peace and hope. We will probably know who he is human-wise before the rapture, but I don't believe we will know he will become the ac.
27  General Category / Revelation Prophecy / Re: Pre-trib rapture and antichrist on: October 13, 2011, 09:14:36 am
The rapture of the church precedes the beginning of the Day of the Lord.


The first epistle to the Thessalonians deals with the Rapture, Christ’s
coming for believers. The second epistle relates the return of Christ
to that phase where He returns to the earth in judgment and
where one of the accomplishments is in connection with the “man
of sin,” whom He “shall destroy with the brightness of his coming”
(2 Thessalonians 2:eight). These two aspects are clearly delineated. The
interval between these two phases is the Great Tribulation, which can
be further identified with the 70th week of Daniel 9 as a period of
seven years.
THE DAY OF THE LORD:
This is the phrase which occurs in 2 Thessalonians 2:2 (incorrectly
translated “the day of Christ” in the Authorized Version). It is an Old
Testament phrase with definite connotations. It occurs in the writings
of the Old Testament prophets where it relates to the future kingdom
promised in the Old Testament. The day of Christ is a New Testament
expression (1 Corinthians 1:eight); it relates here to the future of the
church. The day of the Lord is connected with the coming of Christ
as it relates to the setting up of the kingdom.
The day of Christ is connected with the coming of Christ for the church. Whatever else is
implied in these two statements, certainly this is basic.
The teaching in 1 Thessalonians is that the saints who have died
will have part in Christ’s coming for His living saints; in 2
Thessalonians it is that the saints who are alive will not have part in
the Great Tribulation. The return of Christ has a peculiar and precious
meaning for His saints.
 J. Vernon Mcgee
http://thruthebible.ca/notes/1-2_Thessalonians.pdf
28  General Category / Revelation Prophecy / Re: Pre-trib rapture and antichrist on: October 13, 2011, 07:58:31 am
2Th 2:1  Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2  That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;


Thanks, but I still don't see it. Here is what J. Vernon McGee had to say about it:

Two Departures?
I want you to notice in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 something very, very important. “Let no man
deceive you by any means; for that day shall not come, except….” Notice the reference to “that
day.” What day is that? It is the Day of the Lord; it is the day that the apostles asked Jesus
about. You remember that they came to the Lord Jesus when He went to the top of the Mount of
Olives and asked Him first, “When shall these things be?” (Matthew 24:3). When will there not
be left here one stone upon another? (See verse 2.) He told them that when they would see
Jerusalem compassed with armies they would know the time had come. That happened in A.D.
70. I’m of the opinion that several of the apostles were there. Perhaps they climbed up on the
battlements of the walls of Jerusalem and looked over. When they saw the standard, the eagles
of the Roman government of Titus there, I think one apostle nudged the other and said, “This is
what He was talking about. This is it! It has come to pass.” Titus destroyed Jerusalem just as the
Lord Jesus said, and not one stone was left upon another. Let me repeat what I said in another
message – it bears repeating. If you doubt that one stone was not left upon another, look at the
wailing wall in Jerusalem today. The thing that amazes me about the western wall is the kinds of
stones that are in it. There are stones from Solomon’s temple, from the temple days of Ezra and
Haggai and from every other period. One stone was not left upon another when Titus took
Jerusalem. And that prophecy was fulfilled.
They had another question: What is the sign of the end of the age? Now that is what Paul is
talking about in 2 Thessalonians 2:3. The Lord Jesus labeled the end of the age as the Great
Tribulation period. I didn’t label it. No evangelical labeled it. The Lord Jesus is the One who
labeled it the Great Tribulation period (Matthew 24:21). He said there would be nothing like it
in the history of the world.
Now let’s look at this again:
Let no man deceive you by any means; for that day shall not come, except
8there come the falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of
perdition. (2 Thessalonians 2:3)
The word I’m interested in here is “the falling away first.” And when I made a study of this
word, I just had to stand up in my study and say, “Hallelujah!” What a wonderful revelation it
was to see the root meaning of the word. Now the word in Greek is apostasia and it comes from
apostasis. The root word means “departure” or “removal from.” And the verb means “to
remove, to depart, to leave.” It comes from two words: histemi, meaning “to stand,” and apo,
meaning “away from.” From this we get our word apostasy. Apostates, we understand today, are
men who held the truth at one time. They’ve stood for the truth of Scripture and now they apohistemi, they stand away from it.
That’s one meaning of the word. But that’s not all the meaning of this word. The primary
meaning is “a departure.” Paul says that day shall not come until the “falling away” or “departure.” What departure is he talking about? Well, the same departure he talked about in his first
epistle to the Thessalonians. That’s the Rapture of the church. The church is going to depart
from this earth. The Rapture is the removal of the church, the departure of the church from the
earth. Paul dwelt on that in his first epistle when he was answering their question about their
loved ones:
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of
the archangel, and with the trump of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise
first; then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up…. (1 Thessalonians
4:16, 17)
This is an apohistemi, that’s a departure. And to me the word that Paul uses is marvelous
because it speaks of two things. It speaks of two departures, because the whole church is to apostatize:
1. The true church is to leave the earth;
2. The professing church will just move away from the truth.
The Lord Jesus said, “When the Son of man cometh, shall he find [the] faith on the earth?”
(Luke 18: eight). That is, will He find that the body of truth, the apostles’ doctrine, is still held? In
the original Greek the question is phrased in such a way that it demands a negative answer. The
professing church will have departed so far from the faith that in the seventeenth chapter of
Revelation it is called the harlot. The true church, called the Bride of Christ, has been caught up
to meet Him. That departure must come first. As we saw in 2 Thessalonians 2:3, “… that day
shall not come, except there come the falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son
of perdition.” In other words, the Antichrist cannot appear until the true church departs from this
earth. Now we have this twofold meaning. Some shall depart from the faith, and some shall
depart from the earth. The departure of the true church from the earth brings in total apostasy;
so that what the Lord Jesus said about not finding faith on the earth when He comes will be fulfilled.
Now from the viewpoint of the earth, it will be a departure. From the viewpoint of heaven,
it will be a rapture; they will be caught up – apostasia. That will be the leaving, the departure,
9of the true church. I think that the world is going to say at that time, “They’re gone. They’ve
departed. They’ve left us.” And if they are ever to say, “Hallelujah,” that’s when they’ll say it.
The world will rejoice at first. Antichrist will make them believe that they’re entering the
Millennium when actually they will be entering the Tribulation. That, I think, is the big lie. The
world will think they’re bringing in the Millennium. And, my friend, haven’t you voted already
for many candidates who promised to bring peace to this world? Didn’t Woodrow Wilson promise it as far back as 1917? And hasn’t peace been the platform of many men since then? Don’t
misunderstand – these men are sincere. They’re not antichrists. But they tried to bring peace to
the earth. You and I both know that when the man appears on the scene who tells this war-weary
world, “We’re going to have peace, and I’m going to bring it,” they will say, “Bring him on. We
turn it all over to him.” And the world would take him today in five minutes if he appeared.
Only God is holding him back. God is not going to let him appear until He calls out His church,
and He alone knows when that time will be fulfilled.
The world will be rejoicing as the Antichrist begins his rule. But it’s going to be the saddest
day this earth has ever seen, because it means the departure of the church and the entrance of
the world into an awful period identified by Christ as the Great Tribulation.
I saw this illustrated some time ago. We were out at the airport getting ready to take a plane
to go back East. We had quite a bit of time to spend because we always get there early. So I
spent some time walking around. There was a plane getting ready to leave for the Hawaiian
Islands, and I am always interested in going to the Hawaiian Islands, so I just looked at the folk
who were going. Most of them were going out for a holiday. But I saw a couple sitting there, a
soldier boy in uniform, a fine looking young fellow, and beside him the prettiest little wife
you’ve ever seen, holding a fine looking baby. And they were both sad. Everybody else going to
the Hawaiian Islands was anticipating the fun they were going to have, but he was on his way to
Hawaii to join his outfit going to Vietnam. There sat that fellow and there sat the girl. They
weren’t saying anything. They were just staring out into space. The little boy didn’t know what
it was all about, so he was having a big time. When the call came to board the plane, they stood
up. I saw him put those great big arms around both of them, his wife and that little boy. And he
kissed both of them. Tears were coming down his cheeks and tears were coming down her
cheeks. The little boy, he was still having a big time. And then the fellow picked up his little old
bag he had there, started out to the plane, and disappeared. The girl stood there, then she went
over to the window and waited till the plane pulled out to get on the runway. I watched her as
she went away carrying that baby and carrying that bag you women have to carry when you’ve
got a baby. She was weighted down. I never felt as sorry for anyone as I did for that girl. I wondered what the future held. Was there a father or a mother she would go to, or would she have
to live alone and take care of that baby by herself? I don’t know, but it was sad to see.
I thought, That’s the way it’s going to be on this earth someday when the departure, the
Rapture, takes place. The earth will rejoice for awhile, but then a great company of people are
going to begin to wake up. They will find they’ve been deceived. The man who promised peace
is Antichrist, not Christ at all. He has taken them in; he has absolutely deceived them.
http://www.thruthebible.org/atf/cf/%7B91e2424c-636c-40c2-9c55-890588e90ece%7D/Who%20is%20Antichrist.pdf
29  General Category / Revelation Prophecy / Re: Pre-trib rapture and antichrist on: October 12, 2011, 02:46:09 pm
Ok, I need some brotherly help here. I am still not seeing where the ac will be revealed before the rapture.Huh
30  General Category / General News / Re: Re: PPF...what's the deal with this dude? on: October 11, 2011, 09:30:00 am
They must have taken his posts down.
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