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Has Anybody Dealt With Hebrew Roots People Before?

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Author Topic: Has Anybody Dealt With Hebrew Roots People Before?  (Read 97 times)
tennis shoe
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« on: September 10, 2017, 11:51:49 am »

So, here's what I'm dealing with. I'm seeing people that somehow get drawn to ancestry.com and discover that hey have Jewish lineage. Suddenly, there's an appearance of minorahs, yamikas, other accouterments and dietary restrictions in their home. They tend to suddenly doubt the “pauline writings” and go on tirades against “hypergrace”. They get visibly upset when the word “legalistic” is used. There's also an obsession with the Hebrew language. They seem enamored with orthodox Judaism even though they'll admit that it excludes Christ. So theres a glomming on to the messianic community.

I can't help but think this is subtly dragging people out of Christ's house and into Mosaic law even though they will argue that it doesn't.

As for me, I depend on grace and mercy DAILY. I'm not Jewish AFAIK. And even if I was, it wouldn't matter as to my spiritual condition. However, I feel pressured toward their dietary restrictions in addition to shopping for my own family's health. Being gluten/dairy/aspertame/HFCS/GMO-free is already putting the clamp on what I can buy. Sometimes I just can't avoid it. That's all there is on the shelf.

My concern is that this movement will lead to a sort of spiritual elitism or pride that will dovetail perfectly with the appearance of the antichrist or son of perdition. Shout out to FervorForFaith on his antichrist series!

Has anybody dealt with this phenomena before? And, if so, how did you talk to these people? Maybe there's nothing that I can say that will change hearts and minds if they are convinced that they are on the right path to righteousness. Maybe it's time to part ways with these folks.
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« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2017, 01:56:53 pm »

Hebrew Roots Movement EXPOSED!
http://endtimesandcurrentevents.freesmfhosting.com/index.php/topic,12222.0.html

Quote
They tend to suddenly doubt the “pauline writings” and go on tirades against “hypergrace”.

On a side note - Hyper-Dispensationalism is one of the major end times doctrinal heresies being pushed (No, Romans - Philemon is NOT primary church doctrine, even Paul quoted the Old Testament scriptures, and the gospel scriptures, frequently. And Peter preached the same gospel).

2 Timothy 3:16  All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17  That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.


Psalm 1:1  Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
Psa 1:2  But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
Psa 1:3  And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.


Acts 2:38  Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39  For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Act 2:40  And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.


2 Peter 3:15  And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16  As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.


Proverbs 1:7  The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

1 Cor 15:45  And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.


As for being in good health - I'm not extreme like the New Agers, but looking it through a biblical perspective...

3 John 1:2  Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.


As for this ancestry.com, yes, I've seen a few ads for it - and something doesn't look right about it. It gets you hyper-focused on things that aren't necessary to your salvation walk with the LORD.




« Last Edit: September 10, 2017, 01:59:13 pm by Romans 14:21 » Report Spam   Logged
tennis shoe
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« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2017, 03:40:10 pm »

Are you saying that the HR people are correct? Was Paul wrong? Should his writings have not been included in the cannon?
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« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2017, 05:55:06 pm »

Are you saying that the HR people are correct? Was Paul wrong? Should his writings have not been included in the cannon?

No - I was responding to this part of the comment you said...

Quote
They tend to suddenly doubt the “pauline writings” and go on tirades against “hypergrace”.

Yes, the HR movement flat out deny Paul's writings. However, ON THE OTHER END of the extreme spectrum is the Hyper-Dispensationalism/Hyper-Grace crowd.

The Hyper-D crowd ONLY focuses on Paul's writings (and insist how Hebrews, James, and 1st Peter - Jude + Revelation are Time of Jacob's Trouble/Jewish doctrine. And they also more or less throw out the entire OT).

The Hyper-Grace crowd ONLY focuses on God's grace. But let's not forget God's other attributes as well (holiness, righteousness, mercy, judgment, and peace).

I understand what you're saying - but at the same time just wanted to put out a reminder that we must have a biblical balance perspective.

John 16:8  And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Joh 16:9  Of sin, because they believe not on me;
Joh 16:10  Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
Joh 16:11  Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.


Rom_1:4  And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

1Th_4:7  For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.

Heb_12:14  Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

Luk_1:49  For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.

Rev_4:8  And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

Psalm 103:17  But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;


Also, please read my previous post again.

2 Peter 3:14-18 and Hyper-Dispensational / Hyper-Grace "Teachers"
http://endtimesandcurrentevents.freesmfhosting.com/index.php/topic,12146.0.html
« Last Edit: September 10, 2017, 06:07:53 pm by Romans 14:21 » Report Spam   Logged
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« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2017, 06:01:00 pm »

https://www.gotquestions.org/hyper-grace.html
Question: "What is hyper-grace?"

Answer: The term hyper-grace has been used to describe a new wave of teaching that emphasizes the grace of God to the exclusion of other vital teachings such as repentance and confession of sin. Hyper-grace teachers maintain that all sin, past, present, and future, has already been forgiven, so there is no need for a believer to ever confess it. Hyper-grace teaching says that, when God looks at us, He sees only a holy and righteous people. The conclusion of hyper-grace teaching is that we are not bound by Jesus’ teaching, even as we are not under the Law; that believers are not responsible for their sin; and that anyone who disagrees is a pharisaical legalist. In short, hyper-grace teachers “pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality” (Jude 1:4) and flirt with antinomianism.

Jesus’ words to the seven churches in the book of Revelation strongly contradict the idea that Christians never need to repent. To the church at Ephesus, Jesus said, “Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place” (Revelation 2:4). Jesus rebukes five of the seven churches and demands repentance from them (Revelation 2:4, 6, 20; 3:3, 15–19). Far from believers being unaccountable for their sin, they must answer to Jesus for their disobedience (see also 2 Corinthians 5:10).

Preachers of hyper-grace doctrine discount the Old Testament and the Ten Commandments as irrelevant to New Testament believers. They even teach that Jesus’ words spoken before His resurrection are part of the Old Covenant and no longer applicable to born-again believers. But is this true?

In Mark 13:31, Jesus said, “Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.” Before Jesus ascended into heaven, He promised that the Father would send the Holy Spirit who “will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you” (John 14:26). If Jesus’ words are no longer applicable to believers, why would we need to be reminded of them?

Hyper-grace teaching is a good example of mixing truth with error. An emphasis on the beauty and power of God’s grace is good, but some teachers are neglecting what Paul called the “whole counsel of God” (Acts 20:27). For example, it is true that Christians have been forgiven by God. But that doesn’t mean we never have to confess our sin. James 5:16 says, “Confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed.” If we are to confess our sins to each other, why would we not need to confess them to God, since every sin is ultimately a sin against God (Psalm 51:4)?

Also, 1 John 1:9 gives clear instruction to believers about confessing sin. It begins with the word if: “If we confess our sin, He is faithful and just to forgive our sin and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” This is a cause/effect statement implying that we cannot have the second without the first. As blood-bought children of God, we do not continue to confess our sin in order to be saved from hell. We confess and repent in order to reestablish an intimate relationship with our Father. We are “positionally righteous” but “practically sinful.”

To counter this argument, hyper-grace preachers deny that John’s letters were written to believers. However, 1 John 2:1 begins with this: “My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.” John is clearly writing to believers whom he personally knew. He indicates that his believing friends may indeed sin, and that, when they do, they need to confess it.

Hyper-grace preachers also claim the Holy Spirit will never convict Christians of their sin. Mature Christians should recognize this fallacy right away. Every disciple of Christ has felt the overwhelming conviction of the Holy Spirit when he or she has sinned. Jesus calls the Holy Spirit “the Spirit of Truth” (John 15:26). Truth, by its very definition, will not tolerate anything false. When the Spirit of Truth abides in a believing heart (1 Corinthians 6:19), He brings conviction about anything that is not truth.

In summary, much of what the hyper-grace preachers teach is valid. We are indeed saved by grace, not our works (Ephesians 2:8–9). And God’s grace is marvelous, great, and free (1 Timothy 1:14). However, hyper-grace teaching is out of proportion to the rest of Scripture. Any time one doctrine is emphasized to the exclusion of the rest, we fall into error because we fail to “correctly handle” the Word (2 Timothy 2:15).

Jesus was full of both “grace and truth” (John 1:14). The two are in delicate balance, and a tip to either side can result in a false gospel. We must always compare any new teaching with the “whole counsel of God” and learn to disregard anything that veers even slightly from the truth (1 John 4:1).
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« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2017, 06:04:40 pm »

Paul talking here...

Acts 20:27  For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.

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« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2017, 11:41:19 am »

Thank you for expanding on this here and in the bible study section. I guess I've just never seen Paul's writings as unique and separate. On the contrary, I see him dealing with the question, “Christ died. He was resurrected. He ascended. Now what? What has changed and what do we do now?” Christ essentially changed our entire reality as humans.

So, where the gospels leave off, and leave questions or even misunderstandings leading to error, I see continuation explaining who we are and who we can be in the kingdom of God.

The only other people that I've personally seen reject or badmouth the “pauline writings” are women occupying positions of authority within a church organization.
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« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2018, 04:45:27 am »

When you say "women occupying positions of authority within a church organization" are you talking about the Roman Catholic Church, Tennis Shoe?
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« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2018, 04:51:03 pm »

When you say "women occupying positions of authority within a church organization" are you talking about the Roman Catholic Church, Tennis Shoe?

Can't say whether it's within the RCC since I haven't really dealt with them that deeply.

I've seen it among chaplains and some protestant circles. This definitely comes from toxic feminist ideology infiltrating the churches. Such ideology has been directly responsible for the destruction of families world-wide.

1 Tim 4:1-3 - Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry,...
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