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What do you do if you see a Freemason at your church?

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Author Topic: What do you do if you see a Freemason at your church?  (Read 3144 times)
Psalm 51:17
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« on: March 27, 2011, 09:25:51 pm »

Tonight, I attended a wedding shower for the youth minister and his fiance, and before the dinner started, some guy who've I've seen there for quite a while now had a belt with a FREEMASON sign on it(and I believe he was wearing a ring with a Freemason symbol on it). This was my impression - he gave this fake surprise look at us to greet us, but it appeared to me that he was trying to SHOW OFF his belt(it looked pretty new), as he may have gotten it at a recent Freemason initiate level ceremony.

Anyhow, this has to be the lowest feeling when going to church(I mean even lower than let's say, the pastor preaching apostate sermons), b/c Freemasons are ENEMIES of the church as they serve Satan, so it's not like they're wretched sinners like the rest of us who will eventually repent and turn to our Lord Jesus Christ. So you just never know how leavened a church can get even with the presence of ONE Freemason.

Could you guys give any tips et al what I should do? No, I don't plan to get my guns and go after this guy or anything, nor bite my fingers in fear and start exposing this guy impulsively and the wrong way, but at the same time, this IS big time spiritual warfare.

Oh Lord Jesus Come Quickly!

Note: Yes, this church is a 501c3 and non-KJV only, however, I attend it to look after my parents, to be honest.
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William
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« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2011, 10:22:15 pm »

There is a guy I know somewhat personally in my town who is a Freemason. He even invited me to join once I turned 18, this was of course before I was saved. I don't talk to him anymore, and avoid him. I use to hang out with his son when younger. For the most part I have not exposed him, but thats because I know very little about it. He has said some strange things though, and the guy has been in it for a long time. He does not attend meetings anymore is what he told me, but he does pay his dues into it to remain a member of it.

I actually did go last to his house in like many months to try and sell some things to him I don't need or use anymore. He did not seem very interested though. I mostly kept my mouth shut and got out of there as quickly as possible. He tried to get me to come in and stay a while, I told him I was busy though.

You have a different case though with your parents. Have you tried talking to them about it? The guy or Freemasonry in general? This is what the guy in my town once said to me. Quote: "Yeah, well maybe Hitler was right." End Quote.

Ak told me you can Email or contact Michael Slattery I think about it, and he will send you some free tracts about Free Masons. You could give one to him, or at least the Church. I'm not quite sure to be honest. Prayer would really help for sure, and I'll be praying for you.
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« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2011, 10:40:39 pm »

I will say this, that many freemasons dont realize how satanic the organisation really is, the members in the lower ranks will think that it is just a mens club. The majority of freemasons are deluded and actually believe that they are good people. They need to realize the occult and demonic side of there freemasonry that they bring to a Church. I would tell your Pastor that there is a freemason member in your Church. The Pastor would then have to take the step of talking to this freemason to determine his beliefs and hopefully he will repent and
leave the freemasonry behind.
I found this:
http://www.chick.com/information/religions/masonry/
It might be interesting
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Kilika
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« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2011, 04:30:57 am »

Just keep in mind that a Freemason is no more a sinnner than the choir director or any other person that attends that building. What seperates is the person's belief. Most people attend worldly "church" services for social reasons, not spiritual. They treat "churchianity" like just another thing that people do like a hobby or something, but they don't really believe. They are interested in the worldly social aspect, calling to their brethren to look at how religious they are.

I believe you'll ultimately find that most people in that "church" group have so little faith, or no faith at all, most won't really understand why Freemasonary is bad.

One thing is for sure, you won't stop Freemasonary. Jesus will have to do that, right along with the rest of the evils of the world, so I wouldn't worry about it. Just stick to what scripture tells you. Seeing you attend that "church", it may be best to confront the pastor so that he can address that issue in his own "church", rather than stirring up stuff without telling him first, if nothing else for the sake of honoring your parents.

This may be an opportunity to try the spirit of the pastor, by seeing how he handles the situation. It may be not an issue for the Freemason so much as it's for the pastor. Sounds like the Freemason has no issues with what he does, but the pastor has obvious spiritual responsibilities that is expected of him, as in confronting the members of his congregation, trying the members spirits. Maybe he's been lacking in that area and is in need of a reminder to attend the flock more closely.

Scripture says that if you have issue with your brother, to go to him in private, then 2-3, then the whole church if need be. That's for our brethren. So how do we find out who our brethren are? Try the spirits whether they are of God. "The just shall live by faith".

"Be ye wise as serpents..."
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Psalm 51:17
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« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2011, 08:43:19 am »

Thank you for all the info, guys - no, I don't believe this man works with the Illuminati or anything(ie-the likes of Billy Graham who is a 33rd Degreerer and pretty much worked as an intermediary in the White House), however, at least to me, it seems like he's just deceived and doing it ignorantly, thinking he's part of some elite social club. He may not even be a church infiltrator to begin with. Like I said in the OP, this church is a 501c3, the pastor and Sunday School teachers don't use the KJV, the women's bible study uses Beth Moore, the youth minister thinks highly of Rob Bell, I can go on and on, but as you can see, it's not nearly the case like this one Freemason guy is doing all the damage here.

I was thinking the same thing - just merely talking 1-1 with my pastor about the dangers of Freemasonry(without maybe pointing out this guy), and try to talk him into giving a sermon. You make a good point, Kilika - in today's "church", it seems like a social club more than anything else to alot of people. Thank you William for the Slattery info.

Again, thank you for all the info, everyone - this is probably the why I MOST DREAD going to church, b/c of potential Freemasons/occult people trying to infiltrate it. And even if these people have no intent of doing so, they are under bondage by demonic spirits that can lead them to do damage.
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« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2011, 09:53:59 am »

This hit me last night - it was almost 3 years ago, it was the Sunday service before the 2008 Presidential electon...when the pastor made his alter calls after the sermon, it was this same guy I talked about in the OP that went up to the alter, kneeled down at the steps, and started praying.

For one, it's not like pew members do this every single week. Two, I don't recall many people doing this that very same service(maybe there was another body or 2, but again, this isn't the norm).

What I'm trying to say is that it hit me last night that this guy may have been trying to give everyone the impression that 1) "A Muslim Marxist President is about the be elected! The sky is falling! Run for the hills! Doom is coming to America!", OR 2) Remember when Jesus said in Matthew 7 to NOT make a show off of you praying in the synogogues and streets, but do so privately in your own room and God will hear you in secret? But en yet, it was as if this guy's intent, for just this one time, was to show off openly in front of everyone. You know how Satan works, which is completely opposite of the Word of God.

Anyhow, this was random observations that hit me last night from 3 years ago when I was taking a jog. I don't know how high in the Masons this guy is, but at the same time, the way his behavior was in 2008 in that very service before the election, I don't think he's new to this Satanic organization either. It just seemed to me demonic spirits was really working in him that day.

As for this Marxist Muslim President that got elected a couple of days later, well, pretty much all of our Presidents are Luciferians over the history of time. George Washington was, as was some of our "founding fathers". Even Abe Lincoln was pretty worldly.
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Lisa
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« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2011, 02:36:23 pm »

Walk away-

Hebrews 13


10We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle.

 11For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp.

 12Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

 13Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.

 14For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.

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akfools
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« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2011, 04:52:24 pm »

Dear Masonic Lodge Member
Pastor Michael Slattery | Isaiah 1:18
Listen - http://www.sermonaudio.com/playpopup.asp?SID=225111248351
Download - http://mp3.sa-media.com/media/225111248351/225111248351.mp3

More Sermon Details:       

Dear Saints ,
We put together a tract that you might want to use when dealing with the CULT of the Masonic Lodge. It is called "Dear Lodge Member"
It is short and to the point and controls the conversation. This tract will challange the Mason on whome the Holy Spirit is working, to look at his bible in the LODGE for himself and see that Jesus Christ is against the teachings of his LODGE. No matter what the Lodge member tells you, they have all taken horrible blood oaths ( obligations) and have all confessed that their LODGE and the degrees of FreeMasonry are the ways to attain the LIGHT needed to make better men fit for the Great Lodge in the sky.
Make no mistake , if these people are in your congregations they are not there to promote Jesus Christ as the only way to the Father, they are there to promote and mingle the Masonic Doctrines of Lucifer in the Local body of Christ. What we did was read this tract over the internet and recorded it. If you would like some of these tracts that you can copy yourself just leave comments and requests in the Public comment box connected to this recording on Sermon Audio and we will be sure to get the information to you so that you can have another tool to witness to folks trapped in this Satanic Cult

Pastor Slattery has tracts availible for free titled Dear Masonic Lodge Member.
You can contact him at
www.preachingfreedom.com
352-361-2829


http://www.sermonaudio.com/source_detail.asp?sourceid=freedombaptist
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Psalm 51:17
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« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2011, 12:54:52 pm »

Well, the Holy Spirit finally lead me today - my mom was talking with other people, and my dad decided to go out the back door to the car. So I decided to go out the front as he was leaving...I happened to be right behind him as we were shaking the pastor's hand...when we walked out the door, we were side by side rather alone with noone behind us.

I just made it short and told him to read everything inside the small package letter, and I put the URL for Bill Scnoebelen's "Light of Masonry"(or whatever the title is that he spoke about at the Prophecy Club).

Although at the same time, I don't know how I did, but a couple of things are bothering me - I got nervous, and when we were waiting in line to shake the pastor's hand, I tried to stoop down a bit to make sure he had a freemasonry ring on(he didn't look back at me or anything, but he probably noticed, I don't know). I mean doing something like this will make you stick out, doesn't it? And while I wanted to make it short, at the same time, I think my appearance to him may have showed nervousness. I know we shouldn't fear man at all, but at the same time, doesn't doing these things end up making your blood pressure go up a notch or 2?

Dok, Kilika, C40, Lisa, Believer, seekingtheanswers, William, etc - what do you think?

Anyhow, at least blood is off of my hands now, and I pray that the Lord Jesus Christ convicts his heart to get out of this draconian place. Thank you Jesus!
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« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2011, 03:36:03 pm »

Just come out and ask him!!!! what was in your secret package?


That's Baphomet?
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1074/1074_01.asp

What Would You Do If .....?

You knew that some of your church leaders belonged to a secret Society with ceremonies derived from pagan, even satanic rituals?
You knew that this Society claims there are many ways to heaven, discouraging any attempt at soul winning in the Society?
You knew that it prescribes ritualistic prayer but forbids praying in Jesus' name in their lodges?
You knew that to join, you have to admit you are in darkness, seeking light from a "light bearer" who is not Jesus?
You knew that it requires its members to admit to believing in a god that is so generic that all religious deities can fit the definition?
You knew that all members must swear a blood oath to serve a "worshipful master" other than Jesus?
You knew that the Society reveres the Bible but only as one of many books of equal value?
You knew that it teaches that there is only one "religion" made up of all the various religions of the world?
You knew that members are taught that heaven is gained by our good works, that Christ's redemption on the cross is never mentioned.


http://www.chick.com/bc/2003/whatif.asp

http://www.saintsalive.com/freemasonry.html
Additional articles and information on Freemasonry and the Masonic Lodge.

Quote
The Witchcraft Side of Masonry


Issue Date: March/April 1997

By William Schnoebelen

There is something about the Lodge that has always attracted sorcerers. The list of occultists and witches in the last century who were Freemasons reads like a Who's Who of 20th century occultism:

Arthur Edward Waite - occult writer and Masonic historian.
Dr. Wynn Westcott - member of the Societas Rosicruciana in Anglia and founding member of the occult Order of the Golden Dawn.
S. L. MacGregor Mathers - co-founder of the Golden Dawn.
Aleister Crowley - master satanist of this century and founder of the anti-christ religion of Thelema.
Dr. Gerard Encaussé - (Papus) masterful author, teacher of the Tarot and leader of the occult Martinistes society.
Dr. Theodore Reuss - head of the O.T.O., a German occult/satanic society which made Crowley its head for the British Isles.
George Pickingill - the master warlock (male witch) of 19th century England, leader of the "Pickingill covens."
Annie Besant - leader of the occult Theosophical society and Co-Masonic hierarch. (Yes, there are female Masons!)
Alice Bailey - founder of the New Age organization, Lucis (formerly Lucifer) Trust.
Bishop C. W. Leadbetter - Theosophist, mentor to the failed New Age "Christ", Krishnamurti, and prelate in the occult Liberal Catholic Church.
Manly P. Hall - Rosicrucian adept, author, founder of the Philosophical Research Society.
Gerald B. Gardner - founder of the modern Wiccan (white Witchcraft) revival.
Alex Sanders - self-styled "King of the Witches" in London and one of the most influential leaders of Wicca after Gardner.

Would you really wish to belong to an organization which welcomed these powerful sorcerers into its midst with open arms?


The Mason is "unequally yoked" together with all these unbelievers and witches in rebellion to the Word of God (II Corinthians 6:14-18). That alone is enough to knock the spiritual stuffing out of any man!

http://www.chick.com/bc/1997/witchcraftmasonry.asp?FROM=Masonryinfo

Who Is Masonry's God?
Just Write Your Own Label



Issue Date: November/December 1999

© 1991 by William Schnoebelen
Reproduced by permission
from Masonry: Beyond The Light



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You can tell a great deal about a religion by its god, and this is one of the central questions which must be analyzed in comparing Free-masonry with Christianity. Does the "God" of Free-masonry resemble the God of the Bible?

It is difficult to learn the name of the deity of Masonry, since it is a closely guarded secret! To outsiders, the god of the Lodge is usually referred to as "The Great Architect of the Universe" (or T.G.A.O.T.U.). That sounds alright, if a bit vague. This is, sadly, exactly how it is intended to sound.

The blandness of the titles of the Masonry's god diminishes as the degrees climb. As in most secret societies, the revealed material gets more bizarre as you get further into the club. As an example, in the first prayer the candidate hears, deity is addressed as "Almighty Father of the Universe." Throughout the lower degrees, the deity is addressed either as "God" (as when the candidate swears his oath by saying, "so help me God…", or as T...G...A...O...T...U...

As one progresses higher into the degrees, the nature of God begins to take on a less soothing quality. The closest description I can think of is generic foods in the supermarket. The god of Masonry is a "generic" god. His label is blank, so if you want to write in Allah or Krishna or even Satan, you could do so and no Mason could possibly object.

This is obviously "God-to-the-lowest-common-denominator." The Masonic authority, Albert Mackey put it this way:

"Be assured, that God is equally present with the pious Hindu in the temple, the Jew in the synagogue, the Mohammedan in the mosque, and the Christian in the church."

One could just as logically add to Mackey's thought by saying that this "god" is equally present to the satanist in his coven as he cuts the heart out of a child.

Lest the Mason think that such a statement is absurd, let us see just how discriminating the authorities are about the nature of the god they worship. Henry W. Coil, the most highly regarded Masonic scholar states:

The Masonic test is a Supreme Being and any qualification added is an innovation. Monotheism has been espoused as the sole religious dogma of Free-masonry by some authors. This obviously violates Masonic principles, for it requires belief in a specific kind of supreme deity.

Thus, if you tell the satanist that he cannot be a Mason because his supreme being, the devil, isn't up to snuff, you are in violation of "Masonic principles."

When I applied for Lodge membership, I was a witch, and attended an Episcopal church.

I was stupid enough to think the witch god, Lucifer, was the Supreme Being, the father of Jesus. So when two Masons came calling to check me out as a candidate, and asked me if I believed in God, I said yes, without hesitation, knowing that my god was Lucifer.

I was welcomed into the Lodge with open arms, and remained there for nine years. During that time none of my "Christian brothers" ever witnessed to me about Jesus. That would have been bad Masonic etiquette!

After a couple of years, I met two high ranking Masons who were also worshippers of Lucifer. One was a famous ritualist in the York Rite, and one was a Master of a Lodge.

This generic god is obviously a god with whom everyone can be comfortable, except Bible believers! He is a god who offends no one. However, is this broad-minded "man upstairs" the right God, the Biblical God?

The God of the Judeo-Christian heritage is not some blank slate upon which you can trace the form of whatever idol you like. He is very clearly described in the Bible. From Mt. Sinai, He thunders:

"I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me" (Exodus 20:2-3).

Later in the Ten Commandments, He warns:

"Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them (other gods), nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me" (Exodus 20:5).

Imagine the colorless god of the Lodge being jealous? It just doesn't wash. The God we quoted is not pleased to be identified with another god.

He insists throughout the Bible that He is the only true God and He will tolerate the worship of no other deity. (Deuteronomy 6:4, Isaiah 43:10, 44:6-8, I Timothy 2:5).

Quote
Can a Christian Be a Mason?



Issue Date: September/October 1998

Is it possible to be both a Christian and a Mason at the same time?

Several years ago this writer (not William Schnoebelen) witnessed an odd mixture at a funeral of a relative. This uncle had been a Mason for many years but later in life he had started attending a small neighborhood Baptist church.

At his funeral, the Baptist pastor was given the first part of the service. His message was full of the hope which we have in Christ and he challenged the family with the requirements of God's Word and to be encouraged by the promise of eternal life.

When he finished, the uncle's lodge leaders were given the rest of the service. The leader ambled to the podium, flanked by fellow members, all wearing little, white aprons. As he began to mumble some sort of recitation, it was immediately obvious that he was drunk. The Sonshine of the pastor's message was quickly replaced by a depressive mood of dead ritual.

As with any liturgical exercise, the family was left with little spiritual sustenance for the wasted time. But what a contrast of life and death: The eternal hope of the gospel compared to the pagan ramblings of the spiritually dead. For even the casual observer, it was clear that the two religions were in sharp and incompatible contrast.

Is Masonry a religion? Former Mason, William Schnoebelen, author of Masonry, Beyond the Light, quotes from two high-level masons, Albert Pike and Albert Mackey. Pike states: "Every Masonic Lodge is a temple of religion and its teachings are instructions in religion." Mackey removes all doubt for the Bible believer: "The religion of Masonry is not Christianity."

For my uncle, Masonry was no help for the family at death. And in life its practice seems only to blunt the Christian's witness. Even after he started attending the Baptist church, I saw no fruitful witness.

Two other friends come to mind. One was a "pillar" in a Southern Baptist church. His Masonic ring and Masonic Bible were prominently displayed. But when the conversation wandered into spiritual things, he would soon divert the subject.

The other was a salesman who called where I work. He came in joyous one day, radiant with a new-found faith in Christ. On a later visit, he mentioned how he had joined the Masons. We watched his zeal for Christ fade over the next few months as his enthusiasm for Masonry increased.

The Christian who is involved in Masonry must ask himself: "Can I obey the great commission while in a temple meeting? What will happen to me if I begin to witness to fellow Masons?

The reality is: Masonry is a false substitute for genuine Christian fellowship. Men, hungry to be part of something bigger than themselves, often do not find it in the church. Satan has many subtile substitutes for those who are not careful to avoid his deceptions.

http://www.chick.com/bc/1998/mason.asp?FROM=Masonryinfo

http://www.chick.com/information/religions/masonry/
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Psalm 51:17
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« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2011, 05:02:30 pm »

Just come out and ask him!!!! what was in your secret package?

I probably should have said/asked something(it was a couple of months ago when I noticed his mason belt buckle with the compass-square logo, and he wears a ring with this). I'm not making excuses or anything, but the only time I've crossed paths with him was at the post office 2 years ago(and all we did then was shake hands and said hi). But with others et al somewhat around us, I felt it would be best just to give him a small package with a few things to read.

What was in the envelope? 1 or 2 Freemason warning articles from Jesus-Is-Savior.com web site, one little pamplet I got from Mike Slattery, 2 pages of Albert Pike quotes, and something else that escapes me now(as I packed this envelope a couple of months ago, but didn't get the chance until today to give it to him).
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Lisa
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« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2011, 04:38:01 pm »

and all we did then was shake hands

 Smiley

ROFL
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« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2011, 05:49:47 pm »

Smiley

ROFL

 Huh
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Lisa
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« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2011, 07:07:18 am »

Rolls on floor laughing-im sure that you meant nothing wrong but i couldnt help giggle at the inuendo-I mean is that not what free masons like to do-Shake each others hands (yes i know the truth but the lay person would think thats what they mostly get up to).

As my family say of me-watch out Mum theres a joke on its way!!!!

L
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Lisa
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« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2011, 01:49:50 pm »

 the TUBALCAIN" Masonic handshake and is the PASS GRIP OF A MASTER MASON. The Mason places his thumb on the space between the second and third knuckles of the fellow Mason's right hand, while the fellow Mason moves his thumb to the corresponding space on the first Masons hand. The thumb is pressed hard between the second and third knuckles of the hands.

During the initiation ceremony when a candidate is imparted with this grip and its usage it is done in this manner:

First, the Worshipful Master says to the candidate:

"I now present my right hand in token of the continuance of friendship and brotherly love, and will invest you with the pass-grip and pass-word of a Master Mason. As you are uninstructed, he who has hitherto answered for you, will do so at this time.

Give me the real grip of a Fellow Craft." As explained from the preceding degrees, he then has this exchange with the Senior Deacon, who is standing next to the candidate, who is still kneeling at the altar, after having assume the obligation of this degree):

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« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2011, 04:48:49 pm »

Huh

 Cheesy that was funny.....
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William
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« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2011, 05:12:42 pm »

Bornagain2 I know a man in my town personally who is a Mason. I think hes like a low level 1st to 3rd degree, or something, but I'm not entirely sure. I know hes no 33rd degree, but I have talked to him. The Mason lodge he goes to is in a much smaller town of like 10,000 population, or smaller. Its very country, and or rural in this area. If anything its nothing more than probably just some social club for them to all get together, and hang out. Just pagan stuff.

I did leave a Mason Chick tract just a few days ago inside of his door, and put confidential on it, and left an alternate email I have for him to contact me if he as any questions about it. I talked to him about the Mason lodge thing in the past, and even at one point got interested in joining, but he said I had to be 18 at the time. This was back in 2010 I asked him this. So not long ago. I almost did it, because later after picking up a Masonic Bible from this antique shop (it was in really good shape too being from the 1950s) and I brought it home. After reading it, and looking through it I became conviced that the Masons were the true and lost Church of God. I started thinking they were the true Church that Jesus founded, and were the keepers of the faith, because they talked about in their Bible about protecting the faith against Atheists and other enemies lol

I have since learned from then that they are not the Church of God, but I came very very close to joining them. I have since then threw away the Bible last year, and don't have it anymore otherwise I would take pictures of it, but it showed all the presidents up to "Harry S Truman" who were Masons. It also had some pictures of like these "women looking, or very feminine" angels, and also pictures of Solomon's temple which they are OBSESSED with. There were some other pictures of the angels in the tomb, and ministering to Jesus after his temptation, but I don't have it anymore so I can't show you sadly. It was an Authorized King James Bible as well, and I really hated throwing it away, because it was King James... Undecided but it was a Mason Bible...had the compass and other stuff on the front of it. I paid like 100$ for it!

I'm just glad, and thankful the Lord opened my eyes to them. So praise the Lord Jesus Christ!

However back to my friend. Hes a Mason, and goes to a Lutheran Church outside of town. For the most part he just thinks hes a good person I think. I remember him saying to me one time that "Well maybe Hitler was right." Was one of the comments that he made to me one time, which sent up red flags for me immediately. Was very funny, and since then I have not talked to him much. Than the Hebrew roots guy I ended up getting involved with back in 2010 he also was, and had been a Mason in his past. He made it to the 3rd degree he told me, but said it was mostly a social club, and he wanted quote "spiritual" not "earthly."

So I have had a few run ins with some Masons as well, but all mostly low level guys.
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Lisa
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« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2011, 10:53:31 am »

Romans 8

5For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

 6For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

 7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

 8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

 9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

 10And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

 11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

 12Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

 13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

 14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
 15For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

 16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

 17And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

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« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2011, 11:46:13 am »

Sorry about that - have so many things preoccupied right now(didn't get the humor, but now I do). Smiley

Thank you for all the advice and everything, guys - it's rough, yeah...I mean it's now to a point where today's modern-day church thinks MERELY CRITICIZING a false teacher means "judging" them. I mean whatever happened to iron sharpeneth iron? Meaning that at the very least, shouldn't we at least show our brethren the errors of their ways by pointing out scripture? But somehow this is "judging"?

You have no idea how many nonsense responses I get thrown my way... Sad
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« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2011, 02:30:44 pm »

A while ago i saved a bible study on righteous judgement-Thought it might be a good place to look at your last comments scripturally....

Matthew 7
 1Judge not, that ye be not judged.  2For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.  3And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?  4Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?  5Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Here our Lord is telling us not to look down on someone for ungodly behaviours that we share. But contrast this to;

John 7 vs

 24Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Hence there is biblically good and bad judgement.

1 Cor 2 vs

 15But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

Also 1 Cor 5 vs

 11But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.  12For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?  13But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

(The non christian is not our business-only to preach Christ to them-the rest is Gods job).

1 Cor 6 vs

 2Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?  3Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

Math 7 vs   

 15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.  16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?  17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.  18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.  19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.  20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

In reality i used to not judge but as i have gotten older in the Lord I think its pretty foolhardy to hold no opinion. Wish i had judged more over the years rather than less. Im now really picky....

Also

2 Tim 2 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 
2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
 
Titus 3
3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; 
3:11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.
 
Titus 1
1:10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: 
1:11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
 
Isaiah 8 vs 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
 
We have caused our own weakness by not exerting biblical authority in the church...Huh?
 

L
 
 

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« Reply #20 on: September 14, 2011, 04:19:44 pm »

Yeah, that's exactly the point...they've completely warped this "judge ye that ye be not judged" path to the point where you can't judge ANYONE.

I completely agree that we shouldn't look down on our unbelieving neighbors, however, when people who have titles of a pastor, deacon, or has some leadership in whatever denomination goes around doing all the wrong and wicked, somehow, we're not entitled to judge their behaviors, or even point out scripture to them and say "Hey, you're doing a good job, BUT I think it's time to settle down a bit b/c your moving on the wrong path"...ie iron sharpeneth iron? Isn't Rick Warren the HEAD of a church with over 500,000 member churches? Isn't the Pope the head of a billion+ denomination? But somehow they can't be merely criticized?
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« Reply #21 on: September 14, 2011, 04:24:31 pm »

These men may be heads over their 'churches'...The head of my church is Christ-I guess it depends on what church you are a member of eh

1.Ephesians 1:22
And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

2.Ephesians 5:23
For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

3.Colossians 1:18
And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence
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« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2011, 07:24:50 pm »

i commend u for even going up to him to give him information on the masons....i'm such a scaredy cat myself. if the church is already lukewarm and nonKJV, a mason in the mix doesn't make much of a difference. u care enough to help him out which is great. i am scared of confrontation and possibly being placed on their list. though we aren't supposed to fear man. i'm such a weakling though. good on you bornagain for having gutts.
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