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"Holy Ghost = Restrainer" Heresy exposed

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Author Topic: "Holy Ghost = Restrainer" Heresy exposed  (Read 3243 times)
Darrell
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« on: November 04, 2010, 04:21:30 pm »

Many Christians believe/claim that the Holy Spirit is the restrainer of 2nd Thessalonians 2:7. 
Here's bible proof that this belief is just another heresy:

- You need the Holy Ghost to say that Jesus is Lord [1 Corinthians 12:3 KJV]
*** This means that if the Holy Ghost was removed "taken out of the way" there could not way be saints upon the earth AFTER the man of sin is revealed.***

- We see saints upon the earth in Revelation chapter 14 which is the chapter after the man of sin is revealed. [Revelation 14:12 KJV]

- There is no reason for God would take the Holy Ghost out of the saints and then send it back so that there can be saints still upon the earth after the wicked one is revealed; this theory of the Holy Ghost/Holy Spirit being the restrainer is impossible because God is not a liar.

Saints know Jesus is Lord and I say anyone who dares to say that the Holy Ghost is the restrainer needs to learn how to rightly divide the Word of truth or keep silent.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2010, 04:30:04 pm by Darrell » Report Spam   Logged

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Mark
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« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2010, 06:26:50 pm »

Personally i think it is the church that is the restrainer. Just imagine how America would look if the Church wasnt here to fight some of these laws and judges rulings. And not just America, imagine just how fast the world would degenerate if the Church, the body of believers, weren't around.
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« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2010, 12:48:00 pm »

I also believe the restrainer is the body of Christ, or the Church.  We will be taken out of the way at the rapture.
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« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2010, 12:57:28 pm »

sounds good.  Smiley
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« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2010, 05:29:00 pm »

The Restrainer is Michael. Theres a good study on Threshing Floor on the topic.

http://threshingfloor-radio.com/index.php/2009/12/the-rapture-rupture/
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« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2011, 09:59:55 pm »

... Until one can produce proof it is not the Spirit being spoken of, then you might want to back off your stern position.

"that Wicked" is I believe no question the Antichrist, "the son of perdition".

Interesting topic indeed, but nothing to stress about.  ...

Hello Kilika

My apologies for waiting so long to reply.  I hardly use this site anymore but something lead me back to it recently and I read your post.  Well I kindly disagree with you.

In part of your comment you said "Until one can produce proof it is not the Spirit being spoken of..." I must correct you on this.  I have already used the scriptures to prove that the the "restrainer" (or the one people refer to as the restrainer) can in no wise be the Holy Spirit.

Let me say it again for you simply.  Two scriptures prove the Holy Spirit is not "taken out of the way".  This is because no man can say that Jesus is the Son of God but by the Holy Ghost/Holy Spirit and there are saints on the earth after the wicked one is revealed.  So therefore "saints" by default will tell you "Jesus is the Son of God" and therefore they have the Holy Ghost/Holy Spirit in them according to [1 Corinthians 12:3 KJV].   (and in [Revelation 14:12 KJV] we know that saints are upon the earth after that wicked one is revealed).

Sorry but it's true.  You also said "... but nothing to stress about..." so I want to inform you (in the event that you have possibly falsely assumed I am stressed) I am not stressed; the Holy Ghost has used me to expose this very common heresy.  However, I am slightly concerned for my brethren who believe the lie that the Holy Spirit is the one that is "taken out of the way", and how God might deal with them for spreading a lie about the Holy Spirit

Thanks for your reply I hope you now understand why I say that it's unbiblical to say that the Holy Ghost/Holy Spirit is the one that will be "taken out of the way"/ the restrainer.  Indeed, I speak boldly and sternly like I should and say:

anyone who says the Holy Ghost is going to be "taken out of the way" is a heretic and i can prove it with the bible

and

anyone involved in the publishing of the NIV bible should have their names taken out of the book of life for how the NIV bible removes verses like "ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of"  anyone who publishes bibles that omit scriptures don't deserve to see light, messing with God's word is a serious offense

The truth is in the KJB and only in the KJB can I also say I found evidence indicating that the "restrainer" is indeed Michael, the archangel.  So I agree with outofher's post although I didnt read the link that was given, I have my own understanding of this interesting topic which I believe is more important than most people understand but to say it plainly, they can't handle the meat of the word and the truth I wish to share so I generally hardly mention what I believe reguarding Michael and Elijah and other meaty topics of prophecy people cant seem to handle.

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Darrell
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« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2011, 02:48:56 pm »

Personally, I don't see anything kind about your post.

Thank you for clarifying your position though. However, one part you have forgetten apparently; a condescending attitude that's full of arrogance isn't how you should treat people. Your last post drips of pride, so let me share some wisdom of the Word with you...

"Charity suffereth long, [and] is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up," 1 Corinthians 13:4 (KJB)

Sound doctrine says that YOU cannot teach me or anyone else. It is the Holy Ghost that teaches us, because without the Spirit, we can't even hear the Word. Remember what Jesus says about the Comforter? Look it up. And while your at it, try reading 1 Corinthians 13 again and ask God to show you where your in error.

To be honest, you haven't proven anything but that pride is motivating you. If you had not been so quick to lash out at me, you would have seen that I was not saying the Spirit is to be taken from believers as you seem to think I was saying. I was refering to the time when God pulls His people from the earth. God is not going to take back the Spirit from a person. That's silly to even think that. Jesus says we are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. And I also believe Jesus Christ is Lord and Saviour.

Another thing you need to remember is that it is not up to you who is in the Book of Life. God decides that, and to say "anyone who publishes bibles that omit scriptures don't deserve to see light" is not loving your neighbor at all. That attitude is the exact same attitude that Jesus rebuked...

54   And when his disciples James and John saw [this], they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? 
55   But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. 
56   For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save [them]. And they went to another village. 
Luke 9:54-56 (KJB)


Your calling for people to be damned, when we should be praying for people to be saved. You indeed don't know what manner of spirit you are of!

You also completely misunderstood what I meant by saying "stress". Maybe the wrong word, but the point is that this particular topic is not one that determines salvation, thus there really is nothing to worry or stress about. We will learn the exact truth in time as God sees fit, not when you see fit. Even if a brother or sister gets this topic wrong, it doesn't mean they will lose salvation as you suggest. The Holy Ghost within will in time reel them in and teach them the correct doctrine, but their salvation is assured.


Kilika you have made false assumptions and lied repeatedly.  Your false statements are highlighted in red.  Please repent for returning to me evil for the good i have done in exposing and PROVING this heresy.  IF you can't read something without taking it out of context then pray to God for the ability to understand what you read. 

Here's a poem for you

Kilika

You said my post drips with pride
but I have been humble and kind in my disagreement with you
You said my attitude is condescending and full of arrogance
but I wonder what I have said that indicates those attributes
You said that I haven't proven anything
but I have proven that the Holy Ghost is not what is "taken out of the way"
You claim it's not up to me who's going to be in the book of life
but I never said it was up to me to decide who is condemned
You said that I don't know what manner of spirit I am of
but I do know that the Holy Ghost is what used me to expose this heresy
You said that I misunderstood what you said
but I say you have rejected the knowledge of this heresy

I say that Jesus is the Son of God because he is
I say that the people who publish the NIV bible have removed God's word and should be condemned
I say that my bible tells me that people who remove words from the bible will not be in the book of life
I say that anyone who says the Holy Spirit will be "taken out of the way" is a heretic because the bible proves it
I say also that I have spoken the truth and rebuked you kindly but you can't seem to accept it
I say now to you: "REPENT!" because you are a false accuser
I say that when you speak against me these idle words and lies and false accusations and false assumptions that you will answer to God in the day of judgment

Satan speaks through you Kilika, learn to hold your thoughts captive to the truth of Jesus Christ before you speak
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« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2011, 03:51:31 pm »

Kilika where in the Word of God does it say that using the word "I" 17 times in a poem is something I need to think about? Where in the bible am I told not to use the word "I"?  Show me in the scriptures if you can.  Just because Satan uses the word "I" doesn't mean I have done evil.  Yet you have falsely accused me and allowed Satan to reign over your tongue.

You also said "the best you got is some poem".  Why do you believe lies?  Because Satan is the one tempting you to speak them to me...  You said before that i was also dripping with pride or something along those lines.  Is "pride" not an attribute?  Or is "pride" a liquid that can drip as a liquid drips?  If pride is not a liquid how can it drip?  Be specific and learn the meaning of the words you speak.

Why do you continue to attack me on this topic?  I have exposed a heresy if you envy me because God chose me to expose it, that's your own affair and is not my concern go somewhere else if you don't like truth.

If you don't believe the saints will be upon earth after the wicked one is revealed, then you don't believe the book of revelation.
If you don't believe that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost, then you don't believe the book of Corinthians
If you don't believe the Holy Scriptures are true then go ahead and call me your enemy because I tell you the truth and expose heretics

Kilika you can quote irrelevant scriptures to me all day but I understand and BELIEVE what I read and it would do you some good to learn to understand what you read.

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« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2014, 04:24:59 am »

This is from a friend of mine after reading it  it to me is rather logical

i believe the restrainer of II Thessalonians 2 is Michael the Archangel. It aligns perfectly with prophetic Scripture in Old and New Testament. It used to be the accepted view by many Bible believers. Michael wars with Satan and his angels and restrains those who would begin the one world religion of antichrist and one world government. All of this was told to Daniel the prophet. Michael withholds against Satan until the time he has been given is upon the earth. Then He shall step aside and allow Satan to have his way.
 
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. (Rev. 12:7-9)
 
When we compare Matthew 24:15-22 and cross reference it with the context of Daniel 12:1 we find the following:
 
And at that time shall MICHAEL stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
 
I am sure we could do a more in depth Scriptural study, but saying the KJB shows Satan, the church or the Holy Spirit is the restrainer does not seem to hold water when Scripture is compared. But you know why the problem occurs? Everyone keeps wanting to make the Tribulation about THE CHURCH!
 
This is what happens when men follow men's synthesized systems rather than the Scriptures. It is why I am neither a covenant theologian nor a dispensationalist. It is why I believe there is a difference in the church and the nation of Israel, but only on a minute scale. Israel MUST go through the tribulation because God is going to deliver her over to the ultimate form of idolatry. Search out the Old Testament. All through the Old Testament the Nation of Israel went whoring after false gods. So, the Lord shall deliver them over to the ultimate false god and false idol where they must choose to serve him and worship the idol by taking the mark of the beast, or die.
 
I am not sure where I stand on the issue of the church going through the tribulation yet. I can admit that much. But all of the passages seem to point to Michael as the restrainer. I am trying to see if I was taught pretribulationism and it is something I was conned into just because it was popular. I mean, I was raised Pentecostal, so it is nothing new to me to question the doctrines I am taught. I do it all the time. I never even knew there was a difference until I met others who disagreed.
 
But, on the issue of Michael being the restrainer, no one has shown me the restrainer being any of the other three with any definitive Scriptural backing. I am open to it if you can show me from the Scriptures.In the context of the other prophetic verses which line up with what unfolds at the same time. All Scripture must be compared and does not stand alone.
 
Paul told the church at Thessalonica about the prophecies of Daniel and the day of of the Lord. As I said, when Scripture is compared with Scripture we find Paul here points us back to Christ's message in Matthew who points back to Daniel's message of the man of sin. That is where I find Michael in 2 Thess. 2.
 
Someone Restrains the Antichrist:
 
2 Thessalonians 2:3-7 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
 
The Antichrist is Spoken of by Daniel
 
Matthew 24:15-22 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
 
Daniel says When Michael Takes a stand it causes the trouble to begin!
 
Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
 
Michael wars against Satan, Casts Him out of Heaven. Michael is removed as the Prince Protector of Israel by God and the Time of Jacob's Trouble now begins.
 
Daniel 10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.
 
Daniel 10:21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.
 
Revelation 12:7-13 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
 
Of course, you are free to disagree, but the Scriptures back it up when compared with one another and kept in clear context. As I said, I have yet to see the church, Holy Spirit or Satan fit in the position of the one who withholds antichrist. Satan surely doesn't as it would be insanity for the strongman of the house to be divided against his house. And, well, no Scripture backs up that the devil is the restrainer. The Holy Spirit does not fit the context, though this was what I have known most of my life, because the Spirit will be functioning in the Tribulation Period. The church could make sense, but the church is always a she in the Scriptures, never a he. She is the bride of Christ, His beloved. How then can she be a he?
 
None of the other positions will hold up as strong when compared with Scripture or when studied out in more depth. There are far more verses which bear out this truth, I believe; but, these are the bare essentials which show the KEY truths to keeping the context of the day of the Lord and the period of the great tribulation in proper order.
 
The restraining has to do with the revelation of the antichrist, correct? When is this revelation made? When "he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God." Paul told the Thessolonicans of this. Jesus spoke to the apostles of this same period when he said, "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place,...For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."
 
So, We have Paul telling the Thessalonicans that the restrainer is keeping the man of sin back so he is unable to stand in the temple, and proclaim himself god, and we have Jesus corroborating the fact that at the same time the abomination of desolation shall stand in the temple and then great tribulation shall come. That, again points us back to Daniel, all according to Scriptural context. Daniel 12:1 then says, "AND AT THAT TIME SHALL MICHAEL STAND UP, THE GREAT PRINCE OF THY PEOPLE:" From what little the Scriptures reveal about Michael we can tell that he is under authority of the Lord, leads the Lord's armed forces, and is the great protector of Israel.
 
Jeremiah 30 prophesies of the time of Jacob's trouble. In verse 7 the Lord says that there is none like. That means it is the same DAY all the other days are the Bible keeps speaking of where we are told there are none like it. But the Lord says He shall save Jacob out of it. In verses 8 and 9 the Lord says He shall break the yoke off their neck and they will serve no one else any longer but that they shall serve their Lord their God, and David their King, whom He shall raise up unto them. The Lord even says the purpose of this is to correct them in verse 11: "I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished." The prophecy continues on, but I must return to the issue of Michael. Israel is being punished for her idolatry. The antichrist is in Israel, in the temple, erecting the abomination of desolation and we now come right back to the words of Paul, Jesus and Daniel, and Michael MUST stand up because the Lord has prophesied it.
 
We know what it means when we say stand up, we have a few songs with the term. Stand up, stand up for Jesus ye soldiers of the cross. It does not mean a literal stand. It means to prepare for battle. Michael prepares for battle against the man of sin and the devil. This is all still mid-way through the tribulation. As Michael prepares for battle we see this written by John and Daniel in their respective works of Revelation and Daniel. In Daniel 10:20-21 the word "CHAZAQ"  that is translated holdeth means the same thing as restrain or bind as it is found in II Thessalonians 2:6-7.
 
Daniel 12:1 and Revelation 12:11 parallel each other. This shows that Israel must be written in the book of life by the blood of the lamb. So, they are redeemed Jews. The church is a partaker and of the covenants and blessings of Israel, not the usurper. Jesus Christ is our protector, not Michael. The restrainer who holds back the wicked is obviously Michael. I have posted plenty of Scripture to prove Michael is the restrainer if you understand the OT and NT prophetic books. Seeing that the Time of Jacob's Trouble and the Great Tribulation are one in the same that means that Satan must make a move against the Lord's people, Israel. We know that all of Israel shall be saved.
 
There are many, many more passages of Scripture which all dovetail with this ONE. We must compare Scripture with Scripture. That does not mean from verse 16 to verse 20. We compare Moses to John, Amos to Zechariah, Joel to Matthew, Christ, to Obadiah. In the fullness of the Scriptures we find the Word of truth rightly divided for the Word is of no private interpretation.
 
I have only touched on a few of the verses and prophetic Scriptures I believe show Michael is indeed the restrainer as Paul would have understood and which Christ alluded to through the prophetic utterances of Daniel and others in the Old Testament. But, if you choose to have Satan, the Holy Spirit or the church as the restrainer, so be it. I stand firm by what I believe the Scriptures reveal as they seem the most logical both Spiritually and historically. It is something I will study out more in depth and develop a further teaching or writing on. God bless.
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« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2014, 04:07:10 am »

Quote
And at that time shall MICHAEL stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Doesnt that imply that Michale stands up for Israel AFTER the Trib begins? The Trib starts with the Antichrist coming on scene. Meaning the restrainer has been removed. If Michale is the restrainer how can he be removed and then be there to stand up for Israel during the Trib?

The Church is only shown at the beginning if the Trib IN Heaven, and at the end RETURNING with the Lord FROM Heaven.
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« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2014, 08:11:31 pm »

Doesnt that imply that Michale stands up for Israel AFTER the Trib begins? The Trib starts with the Antichrist coming on scene. Meaning the restrainer has been removed. If Michale is the restrainer how can he be removed and then be there to stand up for Israel during the Trib?

The Church is only shown at the beginning if the Trib IN Heaven, and at the end RETURNING with the Lord FROM Heaven.


FWIW - the best pre-trib rapture verses are throughout the epistles. It's ALL throughout the epistles.

Revelation 2:29  He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
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« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2014, 12:05:45 am »

Doesnt that imply that Michale stands up for Israel AFTER the Trib begins? The Trib starts with the Antichrist coming on scene. Meaning the restrainer has been removed. If Michale is the restrainer how can he be removed and then be there to stand up for Israel during the Trib?

The Church is only shown at the beginning if the Trib IN Heaven, and at the end RETURNING with the Lord FROM Heaven.


i suppose so but if it isnt Michael then perhaps another angel? Gabriel? that "he" in the verse sounds like a man or an angel.
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« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2014, 05:48:54 am »

i suppose so but if it isnt Michael then perhaps another angel? Gabriel? that "he" in the verse sounds like a man or an angel.

or perhaps its the Church. That is the only thing missing from the Trib. We are taken out of the way at the beginning.

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that "he" in the verse sounds like a man or an angel.

The bride is made up of a lot of men.  Grin
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« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2014, 08:04:11 pm »

I'm reading the latter OT prophets again now - they talk alot about the last days, but NOT ONCE do they mention the NT Church body of Christ in it. IOW - they LARGELY talk about Israel/Jerusalem in these last days.

This is why it's very important to read these OT prophecies again and again b/c it all but re-confirms that the body of Christ won't be here during the Time of Jacob's Trouble.

Don't let these post-trib rapture thieves like Steven Anderson and Sam Adams steal your rewards.

2Timothy 4:8  Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
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Christian40
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« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2014, 04:37:26 am »

I'm reading the latter OT prophets again now - they talk alot about the last days, but NOT ONCE do they mention the NT Church body of Christ in it. IOW - they LARGELY talk about Israel/Jerusalem in these last days.

This is why it's very important to read these OT prophecies again and again b/c it all but re-confirms that the body of Christ won't be here during the Time of Jacob's Trouble.

Don't let these post-trib rapture thieves like Steven Anderson and Sam Adams steal your rewards.

2Timothy 4:8  Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.


That is what has interested me that the OT saints didnt see a time for Christians and the Church and write about it instead there focus is on Israel.
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« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2015, 03:21:52 pm »

FWIW - the best pre-trib rapture verses are throughout the epistles. It's ALL throughout the epistles.




I wish I could find some of those  Grin
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