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What is the Gap Theory? Did anything happen between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2?

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Author Topic: What is the Gap Theory? Did anything happen between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2?  (Read 3746 times)
Christian40
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« on: April 17, 2011, 01:15:52 am »

No i do not believe in the Gap Theory. Here are some sermons by Jessie Delewski on the Gap Theory:

Part 1:
In this sermon we begin a study on the gap theory. Does the Bible really teach that there was a huge span of time between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2? When and where did the teaching of the gap theory enter into the church? In the first part of this study, brother Jessie Delewski will answer these questions, and also prove that the "day-age theory" is unscriptural. You will plainly see that the day age theory is an unnecessary compromise that Christians make between the Bible and the ridiculous evolution theory. We truly must beware of "oppositions of science falsely so called." (1 Timothy 6:20)
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=36111424380

Part 2:
In this sermon we look at the meaning of the word "replenish". Does this word mean "to fill" or to "fill again"? Should we use dictionaries, or the Bible itself to define this word? What about the passage in Jeremiah 4? Are verses 23-26 really speaking about a "pre-Adamite earth"? Or are these verses describing another event?
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=3131113365010

Part 3:
In this message, Jessie Delewski covers the fall of Satan and how this event relates to the supposed "pre-Adamite fall" held by many advocates of the Gap Theory. You will see why this pre-Adamite fall of angelic beings, just doesn't line up with scripture!
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=41111138180
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« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2011, 01:18:33 am »

Yes, we do agree that the theory of evolution is nonsense. Let me clarify one thing. When I said that evolution was the only reason for the gap theory and the day=age theory, I didn't mean that everyone who believes one of those theories has to also believe in evolution. I know that this is not the case, since I once believed the gap theory myself, while at the same time rejecting the idea of evolution. What I meant was that evolution is the reason the theory was invented in the first place. Before the theory of evolution became popular, nobody thought that the world was billions of years old. There was no reason to think that. But for evolution to work, it needs an old earth. When scientists started telling everybody that the earth was much older than they had previously thought, people believed them, because they were supposed to be the experts. So, to reconcile the biblical account of creation with this new "knowledge" of science, the gap theory was invented. Without the theory of evolution, the gap theory would never have existed.

One may that we know that the earth is old. I disagree. What we know is that it looks old. But why would God make a universe that looks like it's billions of years old, when it's really only a few thousand years old? It's really quite simple, and the first chapter of Genesis gives us the answer.
It takes about two years from the time a baby is born until it starts to say simple words. It takes even longer before a child can carry on an intelligent conversation. Yet, on the day of Adam's creation, God talked to him. A person isn't capable of reproducing until he's in his teens. Yet, on the day of their creation, God told Adam and Eve to "be fruitful and multiply". Years pass from the time we sow seeds until the trees that sprout from them bare fruit. But when the newly created trees were only 3 days old, they were already baring ripe fruit for Adam and Eve to eat. All these things and more looked much older than they were, because it was necessary for them to have a certain level of maturity. Babies couldn't tend the garden or take care of themselves. Without mature plants, there would be nothing for people to eat. These things had to look old. So, what about the earth itself? Did it have to look old for things to work? Yes, it did. If you start with bare rock, how long does it take for soil to form? First, wind and water have to break the rock down into sand, then plants take root in the sand (no fruit trees though) and, when they die, they decompose and mix with the sand and eventually soil is formed. This process takes a very long time but, on the third day of creation there was already soil for the trees to grow in. The earth looked old. It had to so the rest of creation would be possible.
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« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2011, 03:34:43 am »

Part 4:
This is the final part of the studies on the Gap Theory.
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=426111551522
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« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2013, 03:08:55 pm »

http://www.gotquestions.org/gap-theory.html

Answer: Genesis 1:1-2 states, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters." The Gap Theory is the view that God created a fully functional earth with all animals, including the dinosaurs and other creatures we know only from the fossil record. Then, the theory goes, something happened to destroy the earth completely—some speculate it was the fall of Satan to earth—so that the earth became without form and void. At this point, God started all over again, recreating the earth in its paradise form as further described in Genesis.

There are too many problems with this theory to describe adequately in a brief response, not the least of which is that if something important had occurred between the two verses, God would have told us so. God would not have left us to speculate in ignorance about such important events. Second, Genesis 1:31 says God declared His creation to be “very good,” which He certainly could not say if evil had already entered the world via Satan’s fall in the “gap.” Along the same line, if the fossil record is to be explained by the millions of years in the gap, that means death, disease, and suffering were common many ages before Adam fell. But the Bible tells us that it was Adam’s sin that introduced death, disease, and suffering to all life: “as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin” (Romans 5:12).

Those who hold to the Gap Theory do so in order to reconcile the theories of modern scientists who hold to the old-earth theory—the belief that the earth is billions of years older than can be accounted for by adding up the genealogies of man found in the Bible. Even well-meaning evangelicals have bought into the old-earth theory, handling much of Genesis 1 allegorically, while attempting to hold to a literal interpretation of the rest of Scripture. The danger in this is in determining at what point to stop allegorizing and begin interpreting literally. Was Adam a literal person? How do we know? If he was not, then did he really bring sin into the human race, or can we allegorize that as well? And if there was no literal Adam to introduce the sin which we all inherit, then there was no reason for Jesus to die on the cross. A non-literal original sin denies the reason for Christ’s coming in the first place, as explained in 1 Corinthians 15:22: “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.” At that point, Christianity itself becomes a hoax and the Bible just a nice book of stories and fables. Can we not see where this type of “reasoning” gets us?


Genesis 1 simply cannot be reconciled with the notion that creation occurred over long periods of time, nor that these periods occurred in the space between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. What took place between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2? Absolutely nothing! Genesis 1:1 tells us that God created the heavens and the earth. Genesis 1:2 informs us that when He first created the earth, it was formless, empty, and dark; it was not finished and not yet inhabited by creatures. The rest of Genesis chapter 1 tells us how God completed the formless, empty, and dark earth by filling it with life, beauty, and goodness. The Bible is true, literal, and perfect (Psalm 19:7-9). Science has never disproved anything in the Bible and it never will. The Bible is supreme truth and therefore is the standard by which scientific theory should be evaluated, not the other way around.

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Highlighted in red is inserted KJV verses in place of other version verses this article uses.
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« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2013, 03:41:10 pm »

Gap creationism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gap_creationism

Excerpt:

Gap creationism became increasingly attractive near the end of the eighteenth century and first half of the nineteenth century, because the newly established science of geology had determined that the Earth was far older than common interpretations of Genesis and the Bible-based Flood geology would allow. Gap creation allowed religious geologists (who composed the majority of the geological community at the time) to reconcile their faith in the Bible with the new authority of science. According to the doctrine of natural theology, science was in this period considered a second revelation, God's word in nature as well as in Scripture, so the two could not contradict each other.[4]
 
Gap creationism was popularized by Thomas Chalmers,[5] a professor at the University of Edinburgh, founder of the Free Church of Scotland, and author of one of the Bridgewater Treatises, who attributed it to 17th century Dutch Arminian theologian Simon Episcopius. Other early proponents included Oxford University geology professor and fellow Bridgewater author William Buckland, Sharon Turner and Edward Hitch****.[4]
 
It gained widespread attention when a "second creative act"[6] was discussed prominently in the reference notes for Genesis in the influential 1917 Scofield Reference Bible.[4]

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Free Church of Scotland (1843–1900)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Church_of_Scotland_(1843-1900)#Theology

Excerpt

Theology
 
Great importance was attached to maintaining an educated ministry within the Free Church. Because the established Church of Scotland controlled the divinity faculties of the universities, the FC set up its own colleges. New College was opened in 1850 with five chairs; Christ's College and Trinity College (1856) followed later. The first generation of teachers were enthusiastic proponents of Westminster Calvinism. This position was soon abandoned, as theologians such as Dr A. B. Bruce, Marcus Dods and George Adam Smith began to teach a more liberal understanding of the faith. 'Believing criticism' of the Bible was a central approach taught by such as William Robertson Smith. Attempts were made between 1890 and 1895 to bring many of these professors to the bar of the Assembly on charges of heresy, but these moves failed, with only minor warnings being issued.
 
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« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2013, 10:39:16 am »

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« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2014, 12:36:59 am »

Mark, was wondering if I could ask you a favor.

Am listening to Greg Miller's latest sermon on the "gap theory" - I'm only about 1/2 way through part 1 - while he doesn't seem to believe the "gap theory" like these evolutionists and Steve Quayle/Tom Horn do, nonetheless he seems to believe that SOMETHING happened b/w verses 1 and 2(the judgment of the flood during Noah). IOW, he doesn't buy the whole young earth theory either.

Could you listen to at least part 1, and give me your thoughts over where he's wrong(or right)? Personally, while I know the basic deceptions of evolution, I'm not exactly very deep in terms of the knowledge of this deception. Thanks!

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« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2014, 01:04:58 am »

^^ OK, just finished part 1 - Miller says...

Gen 1:1  In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:2  And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.


Isaiah 45:18  For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

B/c Isaiah 45:18 says the Lord didn't create the earth in vain, it corresponds to Gen 1:2 in that this verse says the earth was without form and void, so therefore something happened b/w Gen 1:1 and 1:2.


2Peter 3:3  Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
2Pe 3:4  And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
2Pe 3:5  For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
2Pe 3:6  Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2Pe 3:7  But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.


He links 2nd Peter 3:4 with Gen 1:1, then says in 2nd Peter 3:5, the earth standing out of the water corresponds to Gen 1:1, and the earth in the water corresponds to Gen 1:2.


Like I said - I'm not very educated on the depths of the evolution deception, but was wondering if you could view at least part 1 for me, and tell me what you think. Thanks!
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« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2014, 01:09:51 am »

One more note on part 1...he lists some of the gap theory teachers...

Peter Ruckman
J. Vernon McGee
Tom Horn
Gary Stearman
John Darby
Watchman Nee
Chuck Missler

Didn't recognize the rest of the list, but nonetheless these names are highly questionable(at best). McGee was anti-KJB. Horn is a Jesuit. Darby craftily embarrassed the pre-trib rapture doctrine. Nee ran a cult. Missler has ties to the Military Industrial Complex(among other things). Stearman claimed to be abducted by a UFO. And Ruckman is pretty nutty to say the least.
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« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2014, 07:48:20 am »

This Greg Miller guy has these 2 teachings in pdf form on his site.

http://bbfohio.com/transcripts/genesisgap1
http://bbfohio.com/transcripts/genesisgap2

Let me just say, he would give Steve Quayle a run for his money.

There is no gap at all. When God created the Heavens and the Earth in verse one, the Heavens were all of space and time here in our creation. NOT the heaven where the Lord Dwells. He already lived there and didnt have to create it.

Is Greg Miller a Hebrew roots guy? Because this is what they do. I have special knowledge of this Hebrew word and you dont so you have to listen to me. Please... Roll Eyes

Quote
You don't need the Hebrew to understand what this is saying, but just for your
information, the “toho” is the word “created void”, it's translated “void” in verse 2 in
Genesis 1, it's the same translated “not in vain.” It's the same phrase. It's the same thing.
God would not create things – He says, “not created in vain.” He didn't create it in void in the state of chaos, as we call it, “without form.” So we know that Genesis 1:2 is not the
condition that God created things in, because Isaiah says so right here. He says, “he
formed it to be inhabited.” That's referring to it being inhabited by “man.” You can't
inhabit what we see in Genesis 1:2. We can inhabit what we see in Genesis 1:1, as far as
we know, but in Genesis 1:2, it's uninhabitable. It can't be “habited.” (Laughter.) So, I want you to let that sink in. What does the Bible say? Really, most of this stuff is so simple, it just comes down to believing what you read. The Bible says God would not create things the way it looks in Genesis 1:2. So he didn't. Amen? (Amen!) He didn't!

The Lord did create it to be inhabited. Just not on Day 1 or Day 2 or Day 3 even Day 4.  Roll Eyes

I wouldnt follow this guy at all. Especially after that portion right there. I know what this word means and you dont. Scott and Brian both have mentioned in there teachings how these Hebrew Roots people do that all the time.  Cheesy

Quote
This message is important for several reasons.
First of all, the Biblical doctrine of the Genesis Gap is important because it is BIBLICAL.
Much of what we read in the Bible will make no sense without the foundational truth
found in this doctrine of The Genesis Gap.

 Huh Dude its not biblical at all because it doesnt exist.

Quote
Secondly, this message is important because it is rarely being taught, today. We will
discuss in the message but just 50 years ago you would be hard pressed to find a
fundamental Christian pastor not teaching this truth. Such are the days when men will
not endure sound doctrine.

rarely taught? its taught by all the Steve Quayle's new age people out there. True Christians dont buy it, only the super fringe due because they also believe in aliens on other planets and in almost all cases evolution.

Quote
Thirdly, this message is important because, sadly, many who hold to the Young Earth
theory teach outright lies and distortions, falsely claiming that those of us who believe in
the Biblical doctrine of the Genesis Gap are making room for the belief in evolution and
many of these Young Earth theory teachers consistently lump Gap believers in with
evolustionits.

Lets get one thing straight here. The Gap Theory was brought into existence as we know it today with the pre adamite peoples, see next teaching, come from trying to fit evolution into the Bible. That is why your lumped in with them. Its better to just keep all the liars in one basket. And all of this stems from ONE Book. Earth's Earliest Ages by G. H. Pember. I have read this book, twice. It is a very well written book but Pember was trying to mix evolution in with the Bible. Doesnt work. He was lied to and deceived by the science of his day. The Book was written in 1876, so he did not have the knowledge from science that all of evolution was a big lie.

Steve Quayle and Tom Horn both promote this book as biblical truth. And this Greg Miller endorses those two. come on man...

Quote
The Young Earth Creation model. That things appear older than 6,000 years, God is not pulling – that'show they teach it! The Young Earth Creationists teach it that God is basically trying to trick people. Hemade things LOOK older than they were, but they're actually not. God's not – that's not his game!God's not trying to “trick” you. There's an explanation as to why things appear older than 6,000 years,because they are. If you understand the Genesis Gap, you have your answers

He must be a fan of Pat Robertson. Really? this guy teaches this stuff? Guess Angels fly in UFO's also.  Roll Eyes

Quote
Such are the days when men will not endure sound doctrine.


I will leave with this.

Jhn 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
Jhn 5:47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Exd 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.


That last part was literally written in STONE by the Lords very finger. 

There is no gap, the Bible does not allow for it. Only people trying to mix some other belief with the Bible use the gap theory. Not all these people are bad they are just heretics for teaching non Biblical doctrines. Like the gap theory, or an old earth, or aliens in ufos, it just keeps leading you down the path until you believe the new-age belief. Look at Steve Quayle and Tom Horn. Both nice guys, the both put out some good teachings, but the teach way more false stuff. That is what Greg Miller is doing here, and from reading part 1 and 2 that is the direction he is heading. And i guarantee that when he gets his gap site up and 1 of the two free books will be Pembers.
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« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2014, 11:00:17 am »

Thank you, Mark, for taking this time out to read and listen to this. Smiley

For the most part, I thought Miller was a little off in his sermon, and it showed when he started out saying how Christians CAN be demon possessed.(as we know from scripture, this isn't true at all - for the most part, if let's say Christians get into witchcraft, then yes, God will deal with us, chastise us, and scourge us. But that doesn't mean we'll get "possessed" at all - this is propaganda Churchianity has spread over the years) I dunno, but maybe he drank too much caffeine that morning(he did seem a little hyper throughout).

And yes, when he explained those verses in Genesis 1:1-2 and Isaiah 45:18, he started out saying, "But the Hebrew translation is..."(this is pretty typical Alexandrian brainwashing rhetoric from these "seminaries").

And like said above too, a lot of those gap theory teachers are suspect(not just Horn). Watchman Nee ran a cult, and he endorsed a lot of the Roman Catholic pagan practices. J. Vernon McGee has some heretical views himself.
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« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2014, 02:38:54 pm »

Well, looks like Miller's hard-heartedness and stubbornness is starting to show through and through. Not just me, but he's attacking others on his YT comments section for merely reproving/exhorting him, and disagreeing with him. All of us(including myself) even made it clear that we find his sermons a blessing when we made our exhortations. But he's acting like we're lying and being dishonest in our exhortations.

Here's an exchange both I and he had on this comments section...

Me
Quote
A lot of those other gap theory teachers brother Greg listed are pretty suspect too.

Watchman Nee ran a cult(and endorsed pagan practices like contemplative prayer).

Tom Horn has proven to be a Jesuit(yes, he put out some good stuff exposing transhumanism that I liked, but nonetheless he's gone off the deep end promoting the RCC in recent years). Steve Quayle also promotes the gap theory, FYI.

J. Vernon McGee rejects the KJB, and has some questionable views.

Gary Stearman claimed to be abducted by a UFO(and has suspect biblical views as well).

John Darby made a mockery out of the pre-trib rapture doctrine(ie-the modern-day church system's rejection of the pre-trib rapture is largely b/c they think Darby somehow made it up).

Chuck Missler has ties to the Military Industrial Complex(among many other things), and he also endorsed Rick Warren.

Brother Greg, I've found your sermons a tremendous blessing week in and week out, but nonetheless wanted to reprove and exhort you that you are in error with this gap theory.

2Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Greg
Quote
Other than Kent Hovind (who now rejects the Pre-Trib Rapture), not a SINGLE major Young Earth teacher is a King James BIble believer.  Even Henry Morris took nearly the identical view as J. Vernon McGee (and we have posted a video of McGee that proves that, in case you are inclined to deny it) when compared to Morris' semi-famous statement on Bible translations.

Do you see how dishonest you are? Probably not.


Mark, aren't you a Young Earth believer who's also a KJB believer? Shouldn't you count too? Wink By any chance, other than Hovind, are you aware of any Young Earth teachers that are KJB believers?

Also, was wondering if you could post your thoughts in the comments section(and see how Miller responds).
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« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2014, 03:53:36 pm »

Bryan is pre trib, young earth and kjb. CF over on PPF is. You only need 2 witnesses to make a thing true.  Grin

I was listening to Bryans new teaching today when he was talking about Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

God cannot lie. He just cant do it. So if there is a gap then that would make God a liar. So we have this from Greg Miller...

Quote
Now,... so that's all I'm going to say about the whole thing of “fellowship”. This isn't a
matter of your getting along with me or anybody else but it is a matter that, I believe that,
if you don't understand the Genesis Gap you won't be able to answer questions as you're
reading through the Bible. You won't understand things...

I'll refer to one of those things and that's the Fall of Lucifer. Without the Genesis Gap
and an understanding of this, you really don't have an answer for one major question and
that is this: How many of you have read the account of Adam and Eve in the Garden?
Genesis 3?

Did you know that sin existed before Eve sinned? Did you know that?

Because the way that that Young Earth Creationists teach it, you wouldn't believe that.
But if you READ it, Genesis 3, there is a serpent in the garden SINNING. Lying to Eve.
Deceiving her. Blaspheming. Adding to God's word. Deleting God's word. Perverting
God's word. Committing all of these different sins, including a liar who is pretending to
be a serpent when he's NOT.

All before Adam and Eve sinned. How'd that happen?

Seems to me that Greg is making the Lord out to be Liar. Wonder if that serpent is talking in his ear. But any ways he said that the serpent sinned first. Well did he? Did Adam and Eve even know what a lie was at the time? Thats funny because the LAW against lying wasn't given until 3000 years later. I know thats being a little presumptuous but lets see here.

The Lord gave only 1 commandment to Adam and Eve. Notice i didnt say the world or all of creation. Just Adam and Eve.

Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.


Thats it. 1 commandment. Dont eat of the tree of good and evil. Which they broke.

Now the Devil he wasn't bound by this 1 commandment. He already knew good and evil. He existed in the Lords Heaven before the Lord even made this creation. In Job 38 we are told,

Job 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?


SO here we see the Angels gave praise when the Lord created well creation. So as we can see here the Angels are outside of creation, they always have been. Adam and Eve were created inside this creation and is a part of it. Satan isnt. So how did Satan lie when there was no law against it?

Eve sinned when she ate the fruit. Creation didn't fall when Satan lied. Or when there was pride found in him. He came into this creation and lied to Eve and through Eves SIN, Adam sinned and then this creation was cursed.

If there was only 1 commandment given to Adam and Eve and they broke it, not the devil, because he already knew good and evil. So Gregs assertion that the serpent lied first is meaningless as for starters there was no LAW against it, and two there was only 1 law. And it wasn't about lying.

Now when did Satan fall? I dont know. What i do know is that the first law against lying came about 1000 years or so after the flood when the Lord gave Moses the law. Before that there was no law against it. Abraham lied about Sarah to Pharaoh. Yet he didnt brake any of the Law as it didnt exist then.

We know that in Job Satan is still coming to Heaven and conversing with the Lord about the people on the planet. Was he fallen at this point? Job happens sometime after the Flood. And we do not see Satan as we see him later. Also the law wasnt in effect at this time either.

SO Greg's assertion that Satan sinned first doesn't pan out when you read the Bible. Greg You are lying and deceiving people. As i stated out with, Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; He cant lie, and his Word doesn't lie. But Satan lies and is the father of it as we clearly see. Maybe you should really rethink what you are teaching and see if there is any pride found in you. Especially when you are now doubting and changing the word of God. Which is what the serpent did in the Garden and had Eve do and now you.

Jhn 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
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« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2014, 04:03:58 pm »

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Also, was wondering if you could post your thoughts in the comments section(and see how Miller responds).

hes very prideful, but im not getting into youtube debates. Plus cant he pick and choose the comments displayed? hes already dishonest, i doubt he is allowing all posts to be shown.

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« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2014, 04:11:10 pm »

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hes very prideful, but im not getting into youtube debates. Plus cant he pick and choose the comments displayed? hes already dishonest, i doubt he is allowing all posts to be shown.

Just unsubscribed to his channel - looks like he's allowing all of the comments posted, but like said, he's all but insulting everyone(and calling them liars) that disagrees with him(like said, both myself and others that merely pointed out his errors have told him we've found his sermons a tremendous blessing. Yes, I really did).

Also - like said in a previous post in this thread earlier - he said at the beginning of this "sermon" how Christians can be demonically possessed. This is also another LIE out of Churchianity I've heard for many years, so that pastors and other leaderships can get control of their flocks.

With that being said - he must have forgotten about this, which is talked about in the pre-trib rapture passage in Corinthians...

1Corinthians 15:21  For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
1Co 15:22  For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.


Doesn't say anything about this man being Satan, does it? Roll Eyes
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« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2014, 05:19:18 pm »

One final post on this then im done.

Tts 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
Jhn 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.


Since God cannot lie and his word is truth, Greg is deliberately changing Gods word to make his lie. The same thing the serpent did to Eve in the garden. First he got Eve to doubt the Word then he got Eve to change the Word.

Quote
DOUBTGen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
Gen 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
Gen 3:4 CHANGEAnd the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.


Same thing Greg did here.

In order to get his lie to work he has to get people to doubt the Word and then he Changes the Word.

Quote
DOUBTYou don't need the Hebrew to understand what this is saying, but just for yourinformation, the “toho” is the word “created void”, it's translated “void” in verse 2 in
Genesis 1, it's the same translated “not in vain.” It's the same phrase. It's the same thing.
God would not create things – He says, “not created in vain.” He didn't create it in void in the state of chaos, as we call it, “without form.”CHANGE So we know that Genesis 1:2 is not the
condition that God created things in, because Isaiah says so right here. He says, “he
formed it to be inhabited.” That's referring to it being inhabited by “man.” You can't
inhabit what we see in Genesis 1:2. We can inhabit what we see in Genesis 1:1, as far as
we know, but in Genesis 1:2, it's uninhabitable. It can't be “habited.” (Laughter.) So, I want you to let that sink in. What does the Bible say? Really, most of this stuff is so simple, it just comes down to believing what you read. The Bible says God would not create things the way it looks in Genesis 1:2. So he didn't. Amen? (Amen!) He didn't!

They only way this lie works is to first get people to DOUBT the Word and then CHANGE the word. Same as the sepent in the garden. Greg isnt a KJV believer, he is a serpent.

Jhn 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

amen!!
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« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2014, 05:46:13 pm »

I only listened up to the first few minutes of his part 2 "sermon", b/c it just wasn't making any sense as he was going along.

Thank you for this - yes, when he started trying to make convincing arguments from minute 1, I'll admit I TOO started having doubt creeping into my mind. Then once I started ENTERTAINING all of this doubt, this was WHEN I started to accept his LIES as FACT. But like said, in part 2 he was really going off the deep end, so ended up turning it off(which was why I brought these questions on this thread).

Ultimately, there's a BIG difference b/w meditating on something, and over-questioning something in your head - the former is getting edification, but the latter you are getting into that ENTERTAINING the enemy terrority.

Also - there was a movie "Now You See Me" which I was on tv last night - no, not a movie I would recommend, per se. But nonetheless it was about a group of international bank robbers who called themselves "The Four Hoursemen", and they used magic tricks and other witchcraft manipulation techniques to deceive the world into what they were doing. At one point in the movie(and I'm paraphrasing here), one of these "horsemen" said that through entertainment, they put out lies and deception. Pt being that I'll admit, I ended up feeling "entertained" by Miller's gap theory expose, as I was going "Huh?".
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« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2014, 05:21:24 am »

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Bryan is pre trib, young earth and kjb. CF over on PPF is. You only need 2 witnesses to make a thing true.  Grin

Well, I heavily lean pre-trib, I believe the earth is not billions of years old as defined by carnal science, and I believe the true word of God that was intended to be passed down through the ages is found in the text of the King James Bible.

Looks to me you can add me to the list.  Grin
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« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2014, 05:58:37 am »

here is the email i sent Bryan to get his thoughts about this, thanx to Kilika for the email address.

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Hello brother Bryan,

I notice that you promote Greg Miller on your YouTube channel. I was wondering if you were aware that he put out a 2 part teaching on his support of the Gap Theory? He had to change the KJB into his own personal interpretation to make his claim. In effect he made the KJB out to have errors and called Jesus a Liar.

The Bible is very specific that creation was 6 literal days long. Greg Miller has said in future teachings he is going into the Pre-Adamic civilizations that existed before Adam. This is also a false teaching, and im quite sure he will be changing the KJB into his own private interpretation again.

These types of teachings leads one into the new-age and develops a cult mentality, especially where he is giving his church his own private interpretation of the KJB by changing what words mean. This is what you find in cults. He is getting his church to doubt the Bible and then change the Bible, the same thing the serpent did in the garden.

here is part 1 of his teaching on youtube


he actually transcribed this teaching into pdf's.
http://bbfohio.com/transcripts/genesisgap1
http://bbfohio.com/transcripts/genesisgap2

He says he is working on a site to fully devote himself to this belief, he said he will be offering free books and material to support this false idea. I would really appreciate any thoughts that you have on this please.

Thank You for your time
In Jesus name..

Mark
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« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2014, 10:55:23 am »

Thank you for sending Bryan this email, Mark. Personally, when I listen to sermons, I tend to just try to "endure" it all the way to the end if they have some glaring errors in it(Yes, I'm THAT gullible). However, with Miller's particular sermon he did on the gap theory, I had to turn it off a few minutes into part 2 b/c it came to a point where nothing made any sense any more.

His true prideful colors came out when he was attacking people in his comments section(including myself) who MERELY exhorted him for the errors he put out(like said, we even told him that we found his sermons a tremendous blessing). This is the first time I've seen him act this way - ie, when he put out a video of Ronald Reagan supporting the KJB, I posted in his comments section all of the wicked things Reagan did(supported abortion, gun control, Police State, the Pope, etc), and he had no problems with my comments on this then.

Also - I emailed Scott over the weekend over concerns how Christians(including KJB ones) are getting duped into this gap theory that the likes of Quayle and Horn push, and he emailed me back a Word doc with a warning how the gap theory is a lie and being pushed.

Let us know what Bryan says.
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« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2014, 11:03:18 am »

Can you send me what he sent you?
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« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2014, 02:05:11 pm »

Not trying to hijack this thread, but while we're on the subject of Greg Miller...

In the comments section in one of his latest video sermons, I replied to one of the posters who said how the pre-trib/future end times prophecies came from Rome - and responded to him how it's been OTHER deceptions(and NOT this) that Rome put out(traditions of music, xmas, ishtar, 501c3, etc), that ultimately has yoked all of the Apostate Baptist/Protestant churches under the umbrella of Rome. And this is what Miller responded to me in the comments section...

Quote
you are a terribly messed up person.  Having MUSIC is "traditions of men"?  Do you even READ the Bible?

Regarding your hang up with holidays, have you ever READ Romans 14?

Are you slandering Bible Believer Fellowship in IGNORANCE, as we are not 501(c)3, but we DO believe only the King James Bible.

Rome didn't originate the Pre-Trib Rapture, you LIAR.  They preach AGAINST it and denounce it.

Whatever you're smoking, put it down.

Well - to sum it up in a nutshell - when I pointed out music being "traditions of men", I meant how Apostate churches nowdays put TOO much emphasis on it(instead of moderately sing a mere couple of traditional hymns during fellowship). Miller really believes xmas and ishtar are TRUE Christian holy days? For someone who's a KJB-only believer, and sees all of the deceptions of the RCC? WOW is all I can say. And I never said anything to debunk the pre-trib rapture(as I've been a firm believer of it for a year now), and I also referred many times in his comments sections of other videos how I find his sermons/teachings a true blessing.

Ultimately, look at this man's pride and arrogance - I will say this...up until his sermon promoting the gap theory, he really fooled me b/c he gave alot of wonderful teachings/sermons(which were NOT ranting and raving, but going through line by line, comparing scripture with scripture), which were filled with alot of truth.

Ephesians 4:29  Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
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« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2014, 10:35:27 am »

This is what Bryan is using as his Gap Theory answer.

http://www.sermonaudio.com/search.asp?keyword=kjvbbf&keyworddesc=&currsection=sermonssource&SourceOnly=true&keywordwithin=gap+theory&x=0&y=0

The Gap Theory
http://mp3.sa-media.com/media/36111424380/36111424380.mp3

The Gap Theory Part 2
http://mp3.sa-media.com/media/3131113365010/3131113365010.mp3

The Gap Theory Part 3
http://mp3.sa-media.com/media/41111138180/41111138180.mp3

The Gap Theory Part 4
http://mp3.sa-media.com/media/426111551522/426111551522.mp3

It is a pretty in depth study and refutes the teachings of Greg Miller. 

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« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2014, 12:12:56 pm »


Thank you - will listen to it later - the guy's name who doing this is Jesse(who was one of the brethren at Bryan's previous house church in PA). When Bryan was there, he and Jesse would occasionally take turns preaching - I only listened to one of Jesse's sermons, but doctrinally he seems OK.

Again, thank you - will definitely give this one a listen.
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« Reply #24 on: March 10, 2014, 02:36:07 pm »

Jessie preached this 3 years ago.

I just started listening to it now, and only listened to the first 6 minutes of it - it's at the 6 minute mark where Jessie mentions Greg Miller's thoughts on the gap theory(as they communicated via email). Apparently, Miller had these same views before as he does now.

And apparently too - there's many versions of the gap theory. Will give my thoughts on this sermon later when I'm done.
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« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2014, 04:45:17 pm »

Just finished the first 2 parts - yes, thus far, VERY in-depthed(made my head spin! Shocked ). It's also at the 39 minute mark where Jessie refutes Miller's belief that Jeremiah 4:23-26 was a prophecy about the Genesis 1:1-2 gap. Read this ENTIRE Jeremiah 4 chapter - this prophecy is to ISRAEL. It's amazing how people can craftily cherry-pick certain verses to try to confirm their own heretical beliefs.

Also, remember this warning from Paul...

2Corinthians 11:3  But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
2Co 11:4  For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

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« Reply #26 on: March 11, 2014, 01:23:53 pm »

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« Reply #27 on: March 11, 2014, 03:01:35 pm »

Bryan makes a good point - why do these gap theory believers waste so much time and energy defending this(and attacking others that don't believe it - no, it wasn't just Miller doing it in Bryan's comment section), but en yet they don't use this time to confront NIV-apologists for attacking the KJB?

BTW - will have to wait until tomorrow to finish Jessie's last 2 parts - I don't know a lot about Clarence Larkin, but he certainly is incredibly deceived(or money greedy, take your pick). If he really thinks the earth ON ITS OWN developed itself for millions of years WITHOUT God's hand in that Genesis 1:1-2 "gap", then he is really DENYING God's power.
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« Reply #28 on: March 11, 2014, 04:47:15 pm »

Greg Miller's response, what do you expect from a heretic

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« Reply #29 on: March 11, 2014, 04:58:52 pm »

You can tell these videos from heretics have an agenda when they do this one thing - play clips repeatedly(over and over again) like this. Again, Miller refuses to lay out his case to support the gap theory. And to boot, now he's dragging Peter Ruckman into this(like anyone cares what Ruckman thinks).
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