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Have Christians Replaced The Jews As God's Chosen People?

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Author Topic: Have Christians Replaced The Jews As God's Chosen People?  (Read 3383 times)
Christian40
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« on: April 17, 2011, 10:53:17 pm »

How Replacement Theology Has Corrupted The Church

And his own received him not - We all know the story fairly well by this point. For over a 1,000 years, the Old Testament foretold the coming of the Messiah. And it was very precise as to who this Messiah would be. Here are a few of the OT prophecies concering Messiah:

† And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring (seed) and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel." Gen 3:15

† The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come;" Gen 49:10

† "And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:" Zech 6:12

† "Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall calld his name Immanuel" Isaiah 7:14

† "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting" Micah 5:2

† "Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not." Isaiah 53: 1-3

† "The stone rejected by the builders has now become the cornerstone. This is the Lord's doing, and it is marvelous to see." Psalm 118:22

† "Everyone who sees me mocks me. They sneer and shake their heads, saying, 'Is this the one who relies on the Lord? Then let the Lord save him! If the Lord loves him so much, let the Lord rescue him!" Psalm 22:7-8

† "My life is poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint. My heart is like wax, melting within me." Psalm 22:14

† "My enemies surround me like a pack of dogs; an evil gang closes in on me. They have pierced my hands and feet" Psalm 22:16

So, whoever the Messiah was to be, he would have to have been born in Bethlehem, been born of a virgin, crucufied on a cross, and most importantly, he had to be rejected by the bulk of his own people. There are many more prophecies, but these are the major ones. History shows us that all of these prophecies were fulfilled on one person - Yeshua Ha'Maschiach, Jesus the Messiah.

Anyone who has ever heard or sung a Christmas carol knows the rest of the story. Jesus started a group of 12 disciples, with the Great Commission to bring the New Testament gospel into all the world. The Jews rejected Jesus, as was foretold, Jesus turned to the gentiles, as was also foretold, and the Day of salvation in the promised Messiah from the Bible was launched. And all that leads us to our question - since the Jews rejected their own Messiah, and the gentiles accepted Him, does that make the gentiles God's new chosen people?

They call it 'Replacement Theology'

Here is a good definition of Replacement Theology: "We believe that the international Church has superseded for all times national Israel as the institution for the administration of divine blessing to the world." source - Kenneth Gentry

And this from Randall Price: "a theological perspective that teaches that the Jews have been rejected by God and are no longer God's Chosen People. Those who hold to this view disavow any ethnic future for the Jewish people in connection with the biblical covenants, believing that their spiritual destiny is either to perish or become a part of the new religion that superseded Judaism."
source - Randall Prince

Get the idea? Jews and Israel are out, Christians are in, end of story. Only, that's not the end of the story. In fact, it's not the story at all. At least not from how God see it.

The gifts and calling of God are without repentance

"For the gifts and calling of God [are] without repentance." Romans 11:29 What does that mean exactly? Simply stated, it means that when God says something, gives you something, or does something that He doesn't "take it back". He means what He says and says what He means. The Bible also says that "being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete [it] until the day of Jesus Christ;" Philippians 1:6 God doesn't do things halfway, and whatever He starts He will also finish, you can count on that with the utmost certainty. So what does all this, you ask, have to do with the Jews and Israel? Let's see.



"Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee: And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed." Genesis 12:1-3

God gave Abraham an eternal and everlasting promise, that from his seed would come a great nation that would always endure. God said that that nation, Israel, would become so great in the earth that anyone who blessed Israel and the Jews, God would bless. And anyone that cursed Israel and the Jews, God would curse. This promise came with no expiration date.

"After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I [am] thy shield, [and] thy exceeding great reward...And he said unto him, I [am] the LORD that brought thee out of Ur of the Chaldees, to give thee this land to inherit it. And he said, Lord GOD, whereby shall I know that I shall inherit it?

In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:" Genesis 15:1,7,8,18

The Great Dispersion

The nation of Israel thrived for well over 1,000 years, but in the year 70AD, was overrun by the Roman armies, burned to the ground, and the Jews were forced to flee into the "four corners of the earth", as prophesied in the Scriptures. But the Scriptures also promised that in the Last Days, God would miraculously restore Israel and the Jews to the land of Israel. It is written in dozens of places in the Old Testament, and in Ezekiel 37 we read this fantastic promise from God to the Jews living in the Last Days -

"And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land: And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all: Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwelling places, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God." Ezekiel 37:21-23



Now, does any of this sound to you like God is finished with the Jews, or has turn away from the nation of Israel? If you are intellectually honest, you will have to agree that it does not. Yet, there are people today, many of them who call themselves Christians and followers of Messiah, who denounce Israel as being not of God, and who claim that the Jews are "evil, Zionist conspirators."



Israel today is an absolutely incredible place, and after nearly 2,000 years of the Jews being shook out of their own land, today they are back in it as a sovereign people exactly how God said it would be in the end of time. But the best part is that God has only begun to do miracles in Israel, and the time is coming very shortly where the whole world will see what God has in store for Israel as a nation, and for the Jews as His chosen people.

The Promises Of God Are Eternal    
God promised that He would, in the Last Days, return the Jews to the land of Zion, also known as Israel, as He regathered them from the four corners of the globe.

"But in the last days it shall come to pass, [that] the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it. And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.



"In that day, saith the LORD, will I assemble her that halteth, and I will gather her that is driven out, and her that I have afflicted; And I will make her that halted a remnant, and her that was cast far off a strong nation: and the LORD shall reign over them in mount Zion from henceforth, even for ever." Micah 4: 1,2,6,7

God gives a wonderful promise in this passage from Micah, that the day would come when Israel would be restored, and that the Jews would be returned home. Theodor Herzl, was one of the main players in God's Plan to restore Israel. Whether he knew that he was being used in that way or not is besides the point. What God says will come to pass will no doubt come to pass. Adolph Hitler, in a different way and for completely different reasons, was also used by God to recreate the Jewish state of Israel. It was because of Hitler's atrocious act of the Holocaust that created worldwide sympathy for the Jews to be returned to Israel.



 "And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit [them]; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them. Amo 9:15 And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God." Amos 9:14.15

Israel today is the living, breathing embodiment and fulfillment of the many promises in the bible that one day, in the end of time, God would restore His people the Jews, to the place that God Himself called this "apple of His eye", national Israel.

What is yet future for the Jews

With all the wonderful things that God has done, He is barely even started with what is yet to for the Jews. Paul, in the Book of Romans, has this to say -
"I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, [of] the tribe of Benjamin. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to [the image of] Baal. Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace." Romans 11:1-5

Paul is clearly saying that God has no intention of turning His back on the Jews, and though there be only a small remnant of believing Jews in Messiah, that the day would come when God would fully restore the Jews, and open their eyes to the truth.

We are seeing the prophecies that Paul talked about in Romans coming true.

"What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day. And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them: Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway." Romans 11:7-10

But God has no intention of leaving them in this "spirit of slumber" condition. He is going to open their eyes in an incredible way -

"For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins." Romans 11:25-27

We know from bible prophecy that these events foretold are yet future, and will more than likely happen during the time that the bible calls the 'time of Jacob's trouble', otherwise known as the Great Tribualtion. But with all confidence in the word of God, I can promise you that these things will happen. I can also promise you that the church that Jesus started has not and will not ever replace the Jews as God's Chosen people, and that the promises made to national Israel remain the property of national Israel for now, and for all eternity.

We know from bible prophecy that these events foretold are yet future, and will more than likely happen during the time that the bible calls the 'time of Jacob's trouble', otherwise known as the Great Tribualtion. But with all confidence in the word of God, I can promise you that these things will happen. I can also promise you that the church that Jesus started has not and will not ever replace the Jews as God's Chosen people, and that the promises made to national Israel remain the property of national Israel for now, and for all eternity.

From:
http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/pages/israel/is-replacement-theology-true.htm



   
« Last Edit: April 17, 2011, 10:58:53 pm by Christian40 » Report Spam   Logged

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William
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« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2011, 11:49:07 pm »

One Messianic Jew says replacement theology is a dangerous teaching that is growing within the Christian Church and breeding anti-Semitism.

Ever since the year 2000, Olivier Melnick of Chosen People Ministries says there has been a rebirth of global anti-Semitism as many people, including Christians, are falling prey to the idea that Israel is the problem in the Middle East and is treating Palestinians unjustly.

Melnick points out that a dangerous teaching in the Christian Church called replacement theology is also breeding anti-Semitism among Christians, as it essentially teaches that God is done with Israel and the Church has replaced the chosen nation.

"That's an interpretation that goes against literal interpretation of the Bible," he contends. "If you were to take all of the 70-plus times in the New Testament when it says the word 'Israel,' pull it out, and insert the word 'church' in there and try to stay within the context of that passage, it would make no sense at all."

The Messianic Jew recognizes that anti-Semitism among those who call themselves Christians has existed ever since the closing of the Bible's authorship some 2,000 years ago. But he says there is a continued increase in the acceptance of replacement theology, and he adds that anti-Semitism and replacement theology are "closely related."

"If there is a growth in replacement theology and [as] it continues to grow, in a sense, there is somewhat of a growth in anti-Semitism within the Church," he explains. "But the anti-Semitism that comes from the Church is not as violent and as vocal as the one that comes from the liberal left and from the Muslim community."

Melnick affirms that many Christians are friends of Israel, and he contends that the Church must be careful to interpret the Scriptures in context.

From: http://www.onenewsnow.com/Church/Default.aspx?id=1416944#_tab#_tab
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« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2011, 04:10:55 am »

1 Corinthians 10:
31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:
33 Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.
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« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2011, 04:46:56 am »

Quote
Romans 11

 1I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

 2God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

 3Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

 4But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

 5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

 6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

 7What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

 8(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

 9And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:

 10Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

 11I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

 12Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

 13For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

 14If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

 15For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

 16For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

 17And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

 18Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

 19Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.

 20Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

 21For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

 22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

 24For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

 25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

 26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

 27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

 28As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

 29For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

 30For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

 31Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

 32For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

 33O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

 34For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?

 35Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?

 36For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
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Kilika
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« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2011, 05:26:53 am »

Quote
it essentially teaches that God is done with Israel and the Church has replaced the chosen nation.

Well, as Believer has posted, scriptures says otherwise. The Church hasn't replaced Israel, (the Church IS Israel) it's just been grafted into the olive tree, but there is still room for Israel to be grafted back in by the grace of Jesus Christ. It also says that there is a remnant, 7000 that have not bowed the knee to Baal, that have been selected of Israel, but the rest are lost that reject Jesus.

"But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." Matthew 15:24 (KJB)

25   For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. 
26   Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? 
27   And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? 
28   For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 
29   But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God. 
Romans 2:25-29 (KJB)
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William
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« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2011, 05:57:47 am »

Well, as Believer has posted, scriptures says otherwise. The Church hasn't replaced Israel, (the Church IS Israel) it's just been grafted into the olive tree, but there is still room for Israel to be grafted back in by the grace of Jesus Christ. It also says that there is a remnant, 7000 that have not bowed the knee to Baal, that have been selected of Israel, but the rest are lost that reject Jesus.

"But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." Matthew 15:24 (KJB)

25   For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. 
26   Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? 
27   And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? 
28   For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 
29   But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God. 
Romans 2:25-29 (KJB)


Yeah I know that Kilika. I wasn't saying the Church was replacing them, but just posted article that spoke against it though they could of used scripture rather than opinions. As Scott Johnson says they will get their eyes opened, and one third of them will get saved according to the scriptures. They were blinded until the fulness of the gentiles come in.
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Kilika
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« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2011, 04:30:23 pm »

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Lisa
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« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2011, 01:27:33 pm »

Galatians 3


6Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

 7Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

 8And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

 9So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

 10For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

 11But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

 12And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

 13Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

 14That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

 15Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.

 16Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
 
17And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

 18For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

 19Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

 20Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.

 21Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

 22But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

 23But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

 24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

 25But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

 26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

 27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.  

29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Luke 20


Then began he to speak to the people this parable; A certain man planted a vineyard, and let it forth to husbandmen, and went into a far country for a long time.

 10And at the season he sent a servant to the husbandmen, that they should give him of the fruit of the vineyard: but the husbandmen beat him, and sent him away empty.

 11And again he sent another servant: and they beat him also, and entreated him shamefully, and sent him away empty.

 12And again he sent a third: and they wounded him also, and cast him out.

 13Then said the lord of the vineyard, What shall I do? I will send my beloved son: it may be they will reverence him when they see him.

 14But when the husbandmen saw him, they reasoned among themselves, saying, This is the heir: come, let us kill him, that the inheritance may be ours.

 15So they cast him out of the vineyard, and killed him. What therefore shall the lord of the vineyard do unto them?

 16He shall come and destroy these husbandmen, and shall give the vineyard to others. And when they heard it, they said, God forbid
« Last Edit: September 04, 2011, 01:33:54 pm by Lisa » Report Spam   Logged
Lisa
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« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2011, 05:02:04 pm »

Romans 9
  4Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

 5Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

 6Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

 7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

 8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
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« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2011, 03:16:43 am »

Isaiah 65

 8Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all.

9And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.

10And Sharon shall be a fold of flocks, and the valley of Achor a place for the herds to lie down in, for my people that have sought me.

11But ye are they that forsake the LORD, that forget my holy mountain, that prepare a table for that troop, and that furnish the drink offering unto that number.

 12Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not.

 13Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, my servants shall eat, but ye shall be hungry: behold, my servants shall drink, but ye shall be thirsty: behold, my servants shall rejoice, but ye shall be ashamed:

 14Behold, my servants shall sing for joy of heart, but ye shall cry for sorrow of heart, and shall howl for vexation of spirit.

 15And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name:  

16That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes.

 17For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

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« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2011, 04:33:28 am »

By Gregory A Miller

"The Bible gives no indication that God has replaced Israel with the Church, YET, most Christian denominations, schools, pastors, scholars, etc., continue to foist that very LIE upon their students and listeners.

In this study, we will see that Israel clearly has NOT been replaced by any denomination or the "universal body of Christ" and that Israel still has an important part to play in these end time events about to take place on planet earth.

God's will shall be done!"

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=117111318322

(a half hour sermon)
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« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2011, 10:52:05 am »

Israel and the church are two separate beings-One a spiritual body the other not. One the heirs of the promise the other the means into which it comes into being. Sadly the word Israel can be used in many ways (the same is true of the word church) and this brings in confusion. I guess that spiritually one could be an Israeli by nationality, an Israeli in genetric descent and also a member of the real church. Sadly Satan is capitialising on this confusion (whats new) and i see some believers getting into the land issue because of the confusion-Lets pray that the Holy spirit will enlighten them into the idea that as Church we are to focus on the new heaven and new earth.
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« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2011, 05:12:50 pm »

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The Bible gives no indication that God has replaced Israel with the Church,

"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." Mark 16:16 (KJB)
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« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2011, 10:01:48 pm »

Over on one extreme, you have John Hagee saying the Jews/Israel have ethnic salvation in their bloodlines.

On the other extreme, you have all these liberal and Jesuit-infiltrated bible institutions/churches saying the church has replaced Israel.

I think I'm starting to get the bigger picture - the new testament covenant of Jesus's blood atonement has replaced the OT covenant. However, this does not mean Jesus has done away with Israel for good.(nor anyone else for that matter that is not dead)

So basically, if a Jewish guy from Israel repents of his sins and calls out the Lord Jesus, then he is saved under the NT covenant. It's not like b/c Israel rejected Jesus initially, Jesus turned their backs on them for good.

Again, I think I'm getting the bigger picture. Also, it's also a bit more clearer why cults like Theosophy has targeted the Jews as a big enemy(like Hitler did in Nazi Germany).
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« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2011, 02:34:09 am »

7   For if that first [covenant] had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 
8   For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: 
9   Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. 
10   For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 
11   And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. 
12   For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. 
13   In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away. 
Hebrews 8:7-13 (KJB)
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« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2011, 12:01:15 pm »

I think I'm starting to get the bigger picture - the new testament covenant of Jesus's blood atonement has replaced the OT covenant. However, this does not mean Jesus has done away with Israel for good.(nor anyone else for that matter that is not dead)


Again not quite-The NEW covenant and the Old covenant still exist-either you adhere to one or the other. But the clause is you cannot mix the two. As 'Christians' we have to live by faith in only the New covenant (Eph 2-for it is by faith). Sadly many professing Christians dont do this and mix the two (one rung off the top of the ladder still means off the ladder). Either we are living as Pilgrims on earth and overcoming the world or we are as Lots wife...

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/murray/covenants.toc.html

Gal 4
22For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

 23But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

 24Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

 25For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

 26But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

 27For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

 28Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

 29But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

 30Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

 31So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.



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« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2011, 07:30:17 am »

Unfortunately my church denomination has some Ministers that teach Replacement Theology.  It has led to a kind of arrogance against Jews and I would say some are even Jew haters because of this teaching.

The Apostle Paul clearly teaches us that God has not finished with Israel.

If these Replacement Theologists actually new their Old Testament they would see Israel clearly living with Jesus in Jerusalem during the Millenium.  I won't go into a great teaching sermon here.  I'm not good at Apologetics. 

Oliver Melnick is correct in saying that Replacement Theology adds to global anti-semitic numbers by causing many Christians to have strong feelings against Israel.

Quote
Olivier Melnick of Chosen People Ministries says there has been a rebirth of global anti-Semitism as many people, including Christians, are falling prey to the idea that Israel is the problem in the Middle East and is treating Palestinians unjustly.

Quote
ZEC 12:1 This is the word of the LORD concerning Israel. The LORD, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the spirit of man within him, declares: 2 "I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem. 3 On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves. 4 On that day I will strike every horse with panic and its rider with madness," declares the LORD. "I will keep a watchful eye over the house of Judah, but I will blind all the horses of the nations. 5 Then the leaders of Judah will say in their hearts, `The people of Jerusalem are strong, because the LORD Almighty is their God.'


Unfortunately I have heard the Replacement Theologists interpret these scriptures to mean that Christians will be in Jerusalem at the time when all the nations will rage againt her.  Honestly it doesn't make sense with Christians being spread around the world and Christians are not being gathered to Jerusalem and they will not all be there in one big group at the end of the Tribulation.

Well if they end up going through the Tribulation maybe their eyes will be opened to the Truth of the matter.






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« Reply #17 on: July 05, 2013, 05:48:41 am »

Willow Creek Church's Involvement in Anti-Israel Group Raises Concerns



Since the creation of the modern Jewish state, American evangelicals have proudly been among Israel’s most vocal supporters. Millions of these supports are members of the more than 11,000 congregations which belong to the Willow Creek Association--an umbrella organization formed by Willow Creek Community Church. Yet a co-founder of this megachurch, Lynne Hybels, has become one of the most outspoken critics of Israel through her work with a controversial advocacy group, Christ at the Checkpoint.
 
Christ at the Checkpoint hosts a myriad of religious leaders at a biannual conference in the West Bank under the guise of promoting peace and spreading the gospel. Yet a look at the conference keynote speakers, public pronouncements, and agenda betrays the true agenda of these activists.
 
In 2010, the conference invited Naim Ateek, founder and head of Sabeel Center, to give a keynote presentation. Ateek was heavily involved in the first Christ at the Checkpoint conference. And the present director of Christ at the Checkpoint, Rev. Dr. Munther Isaac, is a speaker at Sabeel’s upcoming 9th International Conference.
 
Beginning in 2005, the Sabeel Center took a leading role in encouraging churches to divest from Israel. In addition, Ateek engages in incendiary rhetoric against Israel. Consider his 2001 Easter message remarks:
 

...the suffering of Jesus Christ at the hands of evil political and religious powers two thousand years ago, is lived out again in Palestine…it seems to many of us that Jesus is on the cross again with thousands of crucified Palestinians around him. It only takes people of insight to see the hundreds of thousands of crosses throughout the land, Palestinian men, women, and children being crucified. The Israeli government crucifixion system is operating daily.
 
In a 2011 speech, Ateek stated, “The establishment of Israel was a relapse to the most primitive concepts of an exclusive, tribal God.” Even more jarring is an article written by Ateek which suggests that the Sampson of the Bible was a “suicide bomber.” The close relationship between Christ at the Checkpoint and Naim Ateek indicates an organization bereft of a fully functional moral compass.
 
Not to be outdone, in 2002, board member and conference organizer, Dr. Bishara Awad, notably defended Dr. Hanan Ashrawi as “very moderate” in an open letter published in Christianity Today. Dr. Ashwari served on the committee of the Palestinian Liberation Organization and as political director of the First Intifada. She also founded an organization, MIFTAH, which refers to Israel’s founding as Al Nakba (the Catastrophe). Her rhetoric and political alliances are hardly those befitting a moderate. 
 
Not only does the organization’s leadership maintain ties with radical political leaders, but the organization also aligns with theological sentiments far outside the evangelical mainstream. Stunningly, Christ at the Checkpoint apparently endorses a doctrine long since rejected by most evangelicals known as “replacement theology.” The manifesto states, “Racial ethnicity alone does not guarantee the benefits of the Abrahamic Covenant.” This sounds innocuous until one understands the full meaning of this brief sentence.
 
The term “Abrahamic Covenant” refers to the following promise made by God to Abraham recorded in Genesis chapter 12: “Now the LORD had said to Abram, Get out of your country, from your family and from your father’s house, to a land that I will show you. I will make you a great nation; I will bless you and make your name great; and you shall be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse him who curses you; and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.” According to Biblical tradition, after hundreds of years of enslavement in Israel in Egypt, the Exodus, and wanderings in the desert, this covenant at last became fulfilled as Abraham’s descendants settled in the land if Israel.
 
Replacement theology taught that a “New Covenant” granted only to those who believe in Jesus replaces the former Abrahamic Covenant between the Jewish people and God. Mainstream Christianity has rejected the “replacement theology.” Yet Christ at the Checkpoint rushes to embrace it.
 
Thus, the most recent Christ at the Checkpoint conference featured Rev. Stephen Sizer, an outspoken critic of Christian Zionism. In an interview with The Electronic Intifada, Sizer stated: “Christian Zionism can be defined as Christian support for Zionism. They simply believe that promises God made to Abraham and the Jewish people in the Hebrew Bible are in some sense being fulfilled today, or are about to be fulfilled…The particularism and the exclusivism of Christian Zionism is actually a misreading of the Bible.”
 
An organization truly intent on fostering peace would draw attention to the fact that Arab nations force Palestinian refugees to suffer through lifetimes of isolation by refusing to grant citizenship or economic opportunities.  Or such an organization could work to counter the overt racism taught in Palestinian schools.
 
Instead, Christ at the Checkpoint erodes support for Israel and hinders lasting peace through its distortion of evangelical theology and by lending credibility to extremists.
 
Such an organization should not receive moral support from leaders such as Lynne Hybels.
 
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/07/03/Willowcreek-Church-s-Involvement-in-Ant-Israel-Group-Raises-Concerns
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« Reply #18 on: July 05, 2013, 03:11:14 pm »

Quote
the suffering of Jesus Christ at the hands of evil political and religious powers two thousand years ago, is lived out again in Palestine…it seems to many of us that Jesus is on the cross again with thousands of crucified Palestinians around him.

So in reality, it's actually a Israeli hate group that supports "Palestinians". Roll Eyes
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« Reply #19 on: July 12, 2013, 02:17:11 am »

Willow Creek Church's Involvement in Anti-Israel Group Raises Concerns

The whole Emergent Church movement is anti-Israel b/c they have this belief that they have to "build the kingdom of God on earth" themselves. It's not only a works-based mentality, but pure evil b/c they apply to "the ends justify the means" mentality.

Also, those Vatican versions like the NIV also have these replacement theology beliefs as well.
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« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2013, 09:45:27 am »

I see many Replacement Theology followers tend to view Pre-Millennial end-times viewers as crazy. It's why I think A/Post Millennial views are evil...
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« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2013, 02:43:57 pm »

I see many Replacement Theology followers tend to view Pre-Millennial end-times viewers as crazy. It's why I think A/Post Millennial views are evil...

Yes, they are - personally, when I started out in the KJV, I had this perception that we should respect other people's escatology views(with the exception of Preterism). But almost every time these A/Post Mill believers would say this, they would subtlely turn around and say, "But the 'futurism' view is heresy". And my other problem with these A/Post Mill believers is that they believe that we should be prepared to fight this NWO system(when in fact Jesus Christ says it WILL come to pass, and look toward HIS coming).

Also, the modern-day church system believes the A/Post Mill views b/c, quite simply, they have their big church buildings to look after.
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« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2013, 02:49:08 pm »

What does Preterism and Roman Catholicism have in common?

There old and unbiblical,  Grin Grin Cheesy Grin Wink
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