End Times and Current Events
March 29, 2024, 02:06:07 am
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Welcome To End Times and Current Events.
 
  Home Help Search Gallery Staff List Login Register  

Can government tell Christian ministries what to say?

Shoutbox
March 27, 2024, 12:55:24 pm Mark says: Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked  When Hamas spokesman Abu Ubaida began a speech marking the 100th day of the war in Gaza, one confounding yet eye-opening proclamation escaped the headlines. Listing the motives for the Palestinian militant group's Oct. 7 massacre in Israel, he accused Jews of "bringing red cows" to the Holy Land.
December 31, 2022, 10:08:58 am NilsFor1611 says: blessings
August 08, 2018, 02:38:10 am suzytr says: Hello, any good churches in the Sacto, CA area, also looking in Reno NV, thanks in advance and God Bless you Smiley
January 29, 2018, 01:21:57 am Christian40 says: It will be interesting to see what happens this year Israel being 70 years as a modern nation may 14 2018
October 17, 2017, 01:25:20 am Christian40 says: It is good to type Mark is here again!  Smiley
October 16, 2017, 03:28:18 am Christian40 says: anyone else thinking that time is accelerating now? it seems im doing days in shorter time now is time being affected in some way?
September 24, 2017, 10:45:16 pm Psalm 51:17 says: The specific rule pertaining to the national anthem is found on pages A62-63 of the league rulebook. It states: “The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem. “During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.”
September 20, 2017, 04:32:32 am Christian40 says: "The most popular Hepatitis B vaccine is nothing short of a witch’s brew including aluminum, formaldehyde, yeast, amino acids, and soy. Aluminum is a known neurotoxin that destroys cellular metabolism and function. Hundreds of studies link to the ravaging effects of aluminum. The other proteins and formaldehyde serve to activate the immune system and open up the blood-brain barrier. This is NOT a good thing."
http://www.naturalnews.com/2017-08-11-new-fda-approved-hepatitis-b-vaccine-found-to-increase-heart-attack-risk-by-700.html
September 19, 2017, 03:59:21 am Christian40 says: bbc international did a video about there street preaching they are good witnesses
September 14, 2017, 08:06:04 am Psalm 51:17 says: bro Mark Hunter on YT has some good, edifying stuff too.
View Shout History
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Can government tell Christian ministries what to say?  (Read 1845 times)
Mark
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 21786



View Profile
« on: May 15, 2011, 02:09:16 pm »

Can government tell Christian ministries what to say?
Brief cites 1785 law that compelling 'propagation of opinions' is 'tyrannical'


The Supreme Court is being asked to decide whether the government can dictate the message of a Christian ministry. And a brief submitted along with the question cites a page of biblical references as authority, listing them even ahead of the U.S. Constitution, statutes and previous case law.

The idea of a forced message is among the issues that are being raised in the case involving the ministry of Daniel Chapter One, which has gone to the high court to protest the actions of the Federal Trade Commission and the Food and Drug Administration.

The case is set for a conference before the high court on May 19, a meeting at which the justices could decide to hear oral arguments on the challenge to the government.

The core of the dispute involves the government's allegations that the ministry, which advocates for herbal and natural remedies rather than using "toxic pharmaceuticals," made promises of cures from its treatments.

The FTC's own adjudication process earlier decided that the FTC was right in attacking the organization, trying to impose massive fines and then ordering the ministry, at its own expense, to tell all of its customers that the "toxic pharmaceuticals" were the only "scientifically proven" remedies.

The original petition for certiorari was filed several weeks ago, but a new filing today includes an amicus brief from two organizations that advocate on behalf of civil and religious rights. It raises specifically the question of government-ordered messages.

"The FTC should not be allowed to force petitioners to deliver the government's message with which they disagree," said the filing by the Conservative Legal Defense and Education Fund and the United States Justice Foundation.

"'For to compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions with which he disagrees is sinful and tyrannical.' Virginia Act for Establishing Religious Freedom (1785), reprinted in 4 The Founders Constitution 84 (P. Kurland & R. Lerger, eds.: Liberty Press: 1987)," the brief cites. "This principle of 'speaker autonomy' – the right 'to choose the content of his own message' – is a 'fundamental rule of protection under the First Amendment," it said.

The issue was that the FTC, after rejecting a series of expert witness statements and deciding that the Christian ministry made claims of cures, ordered that the ministry "sign and mail a letter containing the views of the FTC, thereby forcing DCO to identify itself with a message with which it profoundly disagrees."

That not only "substantially burdens DCO's exercise of religion," but also violates the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, the petition claims.

The letter the government was demanding DCO send to its radio program listeners and others said, "[S ]ome herbal products may interfere or affect your cancer or other medical treatment, may keep your medicines from doing what they are supposed to do, or could be harmful when taken with other medicines, or in high doses."

Additionally, the letter was supposed to say recipients should "talk to your doctor or health care provider before you decide to take any herbal product instead of taking cancer treatments that have been scientifically proven to be safe and effective in humans."

The organization has posted a video explaining the impact of the government's demands:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1LOtrYlmws&feature=player_embedded

At a special website set up over the confrontation with federal agents, the organization explains how the government-approved drugs actually kill an estimated 100,000 people a year.

It was only last year when the FDA and other federal agents spearheaded a raid on the organization's Rhode Island headquarters, shortly after a federal judge refused the government's request to assess a massive fine against DCO because it refused to send the government-mandated letters to customers.

Jim Feijo, who with his wife Tricia, founded DCO in 1986, said the products are based on biblical principles, and the name comes from the chapter in the book of Daniel where the Old Testament leader refused to eat the foods of the enemies.

"We've never had a complaint, never harmed anyone, and thousands of people have told us they've been helped by our products. We've never had a lawsuit," he explained earlier in the fight.

The FTC alleges that Daniel Chapter One falsely claims its products can cure cancer.

"We never said that," said Tricia Feijo when her organization was raided. "They took a few words from one paragraph, some words from another paragraph, put them together, and said we implied we could cure cancer … their biggest complaint was testimonies of people saying they were healed of cancer."

The conflict began with a Federal Trade Commission Internet sting operation against companies that claimed they could cure cancer. According to the Feijos, 130 health products companies were targeted, and all but Daniel Chapter One reached agreements with the government.

"They ordered [us] to tell our customers there is no science behind our products, that only conventional medical treatment has been proven safe and effective in humans. We know from experience that chemotherapy and radiation are not safe," said Jim Feijo.

"We told them we can't comply, because there is scientific evidence in favor of our products. They wanted us to give in to their position of scientism and deny our religion of faith in the Lord Jesus.

"They acknowledged that we are a ministry, but then they denied all our rights as a ministry, all our constitutional rights," Feijo added. "We are a corporate soul, a 508 corporate soul. We have same legal status as the Roman Catholic and Mormon churches."

The brief from the CLDEF, which is a legal defense organization dedicated to the application of biblical principles, and the USJF, which is a public interest firm fighting for First Amendment rights, explained DCO is a "Christian house church" that runs a healthcare ministry based on "spiritual gifts, education, training and experience of its founders, James and Patricia Feijo."

"DCO uses the Internet, publications, speaking engagements around the country, and a daily radio show to share the Good News of Jesus Christ and the healing qualities of DCO products."

Those products are conventional herbal remedies as well as products that have resulted from "the combined legacy of 6,000 years of the use of herbs and nutrition…"

The problems began in 2008 and DCO "came under attack by the federal government for offering to the public these scripturally-based and historically proven dietary supplements as an alternative to 'conventional' medicine – such as chemotherapy and radiation oncology.'"

"The FTC developed a theory that DCO was misleading the public solely because DCO had not tested any of its natural dietary supplements by controlled clinical studies of the kind conducted by the FDA…" the brief explains.

"The FTC ignored DCO's contentions that: (1) there is no health or safety reason to test a nutritional supplement as one would a toxic pharmaceutical drug, and (b) most food supplements cannot be patented because it is financially impossible to meet the test established by the FTC."

The brief said, "The FTC applied an erroneous legal standard, exercising jurisdiction over a religious ministry on the sole ground of the mere receipt of income, rather than upon the statutory requirement that such income be in excess of that which is required to carry out the ministry's nonprofit activities. Such a fundamental error intruding upon a nonprofit religious organization should not go uncorrected.

"And, in ordering DCO to convey the FTC's healthcare views, DCO's First Amendment right to 'speaker autonomy' and the protections afford it by the Religious Freedom Restoration Act were ignored, constituting fundamental errors overlooked by the court of appeals, and warranting this court's review."

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.printable&pageId=298661
Report Spam   Logged

What can you do for Jesus?  Learn what 1 person can accomplish.

The Man from George Street
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkjMvPhLrn8

Share on Facebook Share on Twitter

Kilika
Guest
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2011, 05:55:44 am »

I knew they would start doing this type stuff, as soon as they got compliance rolling on the Codex.

Quote
Additionally, the letter was supposed to say recipients should "talk to your doctor or health care provider before you decide to take any herbal product instead of taking cancer treatments that have been scientifically proven to be safe and effective in humans."

It's strange to see the FTC heading this up, because all the "dietary suppliments" and natural remedies are not evaluated by the FDA like prescription meds. Why isn't the FDA the lead on this case? So it's actually hypocritical for them to demand testing where the FDA doesn't even test, so how can they say...

Quote
"The FTC developed a theory that DCO was misleading the public solely because DCO had not tested any of its natural dietary supplements by controlled clinical studies of the kind conducted by the FDA…" the brief explains.

The FDA doesn't test herbal/natural remedies, this they are listed as "dietary suppliments", as they are legally defined as food products.

So it's the FTC making the allegations and not the FDA. That's an intentional legal move. Otherwise I would expect it would be the FDA heading up this legal action because the general topic is health. And since these type products are not legally medications as defined by the FDA, then it falls under a different agency, the FTC, because it's a product that is bought and sold.

Quote
The brief said, "The FTC applied an erroneous legal standard, exercising jurisdiction over a religious ministry on the sole ground of the mere receipt of income, rather than upon the statutory requirement that such income be in excess of that which is required to carry out the ministry's nonprofit activities. Such a fundamental error intruding upon a nonprofit religious organization should not go uncorrected.

Ah, now we see the real motivation, the love of money. THAT is why the FTC is going after them, it's really about money and taxes, because the products in question are part of a financial transaction. I suspect the FDA really doesn't have a say in this legally if there is no claims of a cure, but claims of a cure is what the government is alleging, so with that claim the FDA gets dragged in.

This whole case sounds like either an intentional effort to make a point, or case of agency overlap, but I really think ultimately this does relate to the Codex. For the US to be a part of the WHO and the WTO, they must be UN Codex-compliant.

Report Spam   Logged
Kilika
Guest
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2011, 06:26:46 am »

Spiritually speaking, maybe these people need to rethink their commercial enterprise. "ye cannot serve God and mammon".

So it's kind of hypocritical for them to praise God then demand rights under the secular Constitution. They could exercise their right to be humble before God and not fight the government in court. It's as though because they have chosen to do business in the world (buying, selling, and getting gain), they are backed into the secular legal corner of having to defend their own love of money.

To me, it looks as though the charge by Caesar is over commerce rules and has nothing to do with religion, as far as the secular court is concerned.

Just another churchianity group caught up in the world. I think it was interesting that the guy in the video didn't say Jesus, but the Hebrew names.
Report Spam   Logged
Mark
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 21786



View Profile
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2011, 06:36:27 am »

I was concerned with the way the Gov was forcing the group to send out the Govs message. Just imagine if it was in support of the Mark?
Report Spam   Logged

What can you do for Jesus?  Learn what 1 person can accomplish.

The Man from George Street
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkjMvPhLrn8
Kilika
Guest
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2011, 12:57:13 pm »

I hear ya. But if the group is an officially recognized non-profit of some type, then the government thinks it can tell them what to say, like they tell churches they can't get involved in politics. So, Constitutionally, no. By existing unconstitutional laws, yes. That whole double-minded thing!
Report Spam   Logged
Mark
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 21786



View Profile
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2011, 01:23:26 pm »

ya but this is reminiscent of the Clergy Response Teams. Except they are being forced to do it instead of willingly going along.





Report Spam   Logged

What can you do for Jesus?  Learn what 1 person can accomplish.

The Man from George Street
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkjMvPhLrn8
Mark
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 21786



View Profile
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2011, 07:03:44 am »

Liberal clergy oblivious to financial crisis?

A conservative religious organization is questioning why a group of church leaders seems to be encouraging more dependence on the federal government. The comment follows a meeting this week between those leaders and President Barack Obama.

Jim Wallis of Sojourners, David Beckmann of Bread for the World, and Galen Carey of the National Association of Evangelicals -- along with liberal leaders from various other organizations -- attended a meeting at the White House. All those who met with the president are signatories to "A Circle of Protection," a movement advocating that programs for low-income people should be protected from budget cuts.
 
The leaders asked the president to protect funding for hungry and poor people in the ongoing budget debate. In a statement, they said: "As Christian leaders, we are committed to fiscal responsibility and shared sacrifice. We are also committed to resist budget cuts that undermine the lives, dignity, and rights of poor and vulnerable people."
 
Mark Tooley, president of the Institute on Religion & Democracy (IRD), admits he is troubled by what he sees as a clearly partisan stance by the clergy.
 
"It...is disturbing that these representatives, claiming to speak for the vast majority of American church members, would in a partisan way side with the president against the Republicans and [appear] almost indifferent to the crisis before us, in terms of federal overspending and extreme federal deficits for as far as the eye can see," says Tooley.
 
While the group contends it is open to tax increases and supports cuts in military spending, Tooley says he is stumped why the group does not advocate for those who are trying to improve their condition in life.
 
"There's no word of concern about the unemployed, which is almost over nine percent of Americans searching for a job, in terms of their wanting to work for a living instead of relying on federal benefits," he offers. "There's no word of concern for Americans who are struggling to create or sustain their own business."
 
Others who attended the White House meeting were John Carr of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops; Ambassador Tony Hall of the Alliance to End Hunger; Bishop Mark S. Hanson of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America; Michael Livingston of the National Council of Churches of Christ; Commissioner William A. Roberts of The Salvation Army; Samuel Rodriguez of the National Hispanic Christian Leadership Conference; Stephen J. Thurston of the National Baptist Convention of America; and Barbara Williams-Skinner of the National African American Clergy Network.
 
The Circle of Protection statement has been signed by more than 60 heads of Christian denominations and religious organizations, and endorsed by 45 heads of development agencies as well as leaders of other faiths.

http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=1395878
Report Spam   Logged

What can you do for Jesus?  Learn what 1 person can accomplish.

The Man from George Street
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkjMvPhLrn8
Mark
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 21786



View Profile
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2013, 03:35:00 am »

clergy responce teams go into action this week end, cue A-Team theme music...

What Would Jesus Do? Evangelists Launch Immigration Ad Campaign

 It started in South Carolina with Republican Sen. Lindsay Graham urging evangelists to back immigration reform as a way to "fix the problem."

Conservative faith leaders in the Palmetto state are now being joined by church leaders in North Carolina, Texas, Colorado and Florida producing and airing a series of ads designed to change the hard-line views of conservative Christians on the issue.

The Evangelical Immigration Table says the commercials will "educate" the faithful on the Bible's point of view on immigrants.

"White evangelicals have been listening to the voice of the extreme," said the Rev. David Fleming, the senior pastor for Champion Forest Baptist Church of Houston. "Give education to our people, they are changing their minds on this issue."

Fleming said that the undocumented are caught in a system that "isn't working," and is "not only ineffective and inefficient" but treats individuals like "political footballs."

"These folks speak English, they work hard, they pay taxes ... they are great neighbors they are friends of ours," he said. "We live together, we work together, we serve together. We are all in this together. We see the immigrant as a person created in the image of God."

As the religious inspiration for immigration reform, the group cites Matthew Chapter 25, where the Bible reads: "I was a stranger, and ye took me in."

One reason for the push among evangelical leaders could be the strong shift toward representation of Hispanics in their churches. Among U.S. Hispanics 13 percent identify as evangelical, second only to Catholicism, which 62 percent identified with in a 2012 Pew Hispanic poll.

Dr. Richard Land, the president of the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission for the Southern Baptist Convention, said they aren't going to "cast" support for one political party over another, but instead to "lift up moral issues at stake in this debate."

"There's a sea change happening in the Republican Party on this, and I see it here," Graham said in an interview with Bloomberg last week. "If I can sell it in South Carolina, don't come to me and say it's hard. This is a conservative state, and the way we're selling it is to fix it."

On April 17, the religious leaders have organized a "day of worship" and lobbying on immigration in Washington, D.C.

"The Bible speaks clearly and repeatedly to God's concern for the immigrant, guiding the Christ-follower toward principles that we believe should inform both the interpersonal ways that we interact with our immigrant neighbors and the public policies that we support," the website reads.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/jesus-evangelists-launch-immigration-ad-campaign/story?id=18865476#.UV06XzdknSi
« Last Edit: August 26, 2013, 04:49:27 pm by Mark » Report Spam   Logged

What can you do for Jesus?  Learn what 1 person can accomplish.

The Man from George Street
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkjMvPhLrn8
Kilika
Guest
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2013, 06:36:46 am »

Quote
"The Bible speaks clearly and repeatedly to God's concern for the immigrant, guiding the Christ-follower toward principles that we believe should inform both the interpersonal ways that we interact with our immigrant neighbors and the public policies that we support," the website reads.

Yes, it does speak very clearly on how to interact with others. It clearly says to "repent and be baptized...", otherwise we are told to not keep company with the unruly "brethren" or those who are not saved. We are not to take them in as friends, but reprove, rebuke, and exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. If they reject Jesus, then we are to reject them and have no company with them. Very simple.

"Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God." James 4:4 (KJB)
Report Spam   Logged
Mark
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 21786



View Profile
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2013, 04:22:39 pm »

Photo: Obama meets with faith leaders to discuss the anniversary of the March on Washington, civil rights, voting rights, education, unemployment and health care - The White House on flickr

Obama meets with CLERGY RESPONCE TEAM



http://www.flickr.com/photos/whitehouse/9602894286/

President Barack Obama meets with faith leaders to discuss the Anniversary of the March on Washington and how civil rights and equality are closely tied to voting rights and closing the gap on education, unemployment, and access to health care, in the Roosevelt Room of the White House, Aug. 26, 2013. (Official White House Photo by Pete Souza)

This official White House photograph is being made available only for publication by news organizations and/or for personal use printing by the subject(s) of the photograph. The photograph may not be manipulated in any way and may not be used in commercial or political materials, advertisements, emails, products, promotions that in any way suggests approval or endorsement of the President, the First Family, or the White House.
Report Spam   Logged

What can you do for Jesus?  Learn what 1 person can accomplish.

The Man from George Street
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkjMvPhLrn8
Psalm 51:17
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 28357


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2013, 05:50:00 pm »

Can't tell 100%, but that looks like Holder on Obama's near-right.
Report Spam   Logged
Kilika
Guest
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2013, 01:45:07 am »

Holder to Obama's right, and Sharpton to Holder's right. And two others, women, who seem to be the only whites in the room.
Report Spam   Logged
Mark
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 21786



View Profile
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2013, 08:27:18 am »

"Health Care From the Pulpit’: Here’s How Some Churches Are Spreading the Word About Obamacare

Community organizers are joining pastors across the country to educate and help parishioners sign up for Obamacare. The coordinated initiative, called “Health Care from the Pulpit,” is being implemented by Enroll America, a non-profit with the goal of maximizing ”the number of uninsured Americans who enroll in health coverage made available by the Affordable Care Act.”

The program has already reached a number of churches across the nation. In Jacksonville, Fla, Pastor John Newman is among those who invited community organizers from the group to his church to talk about the cost of Obamacare and the enrollment process.

During the event, Enroll America invited congregants to fill out cards with basic information about themselves or people they knew who might be in need of health care, WJXT-TV reports.
Health Care From the Pulpit: Heres How Some Churches Are Spreading the Word About Obamacare

Credit: ShutterStock.com

“Our pastor, he keeps us real informed and grounded in what’s going on in the community, and he’s always bringing stuff to help us, so I love him for that,” said one parishioner named Michelle Fletcher.

Enroll America knows that pastors are trusted members of the community, which is why churches are a focus for education and information on the health care law.

Through “Health Care from the Pulpit,” the organization is working with faith leaders to ensure that people hear about availability — and with a captive audience in the pews, the move makes logistical sense.

“Pastors are trusted messengers. They’ll be able to get the story across, they’ll be able to relate to that story and they’ll be able to ask people to enroll in health insurance,” Enroll America organizer Anthony Penna told WJXT.

From Oct. 25-27,  the organization launched its pulpit program as part of the Get Covered America campaign. Enroll America pledged to help churches who wish to enroll congregants or provide people in the community with information and resources.

A press release from Oct. 22 on the Get Covered America website further explains the purpose of the in-church events.

“The ‘Treat Yourself to Coverage Weekend’ will also engage dozens of faith groups for the first nationwide push of ‘Health Care in the Pulpit,’ Get Covered America’s faith engagement program,” it reads. “Working with a diverse group of faith and lay leaders, Get Covered America will host over 50 events across the country to further engage the faith community in education about enrollment in the marketplace.”

rest: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/10/28/health-care-from-the-pulpit-heres-how-some-churches-are-spreading-the-word-about-obamacare/
Report Spam   Logged

What can you do for Jesus?  Learn what 1 person can accomplish.

The Man from George Street
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkjMvPhLrn8
Psalm 51:17
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 28357


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2013, 12:30:54 pm »

Looks like Caesar is finally calling in his chips.

Not only the 501c3 tag is handcuffing them, but these other false bible versions that push this "submit to the government" lie they're getting hooked as well.

Also - speaking of these "influential" ministers like MacArthur, House, DeYoung, etc that are pushing this "you can still get saved after taking the mark" deception - they too use corrupt bible versions. I say this b/c having listened to House for some 2 years, he uses the NIV, and when he discussed Romans 13, while he didn't exactly endorse "submit to the government", he was pushing it that way quietly.
Report Spam   Logged
Kilika
Guest
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2013, 12:55:38 pm »

Quote
fill out cards with basic information about themselves or people they knew

THAT is a real problem. They have no business giving anybody information about other people, outside of law enforcement in a legitimate criminal investigation.

Things like this on the surface seem to be so over the top tyrannical, that it's hard to believe people wouldn't see what's really going on, but scripture holds true, the lost really can't see it, and it's right there in front of them, plain as day.
Report Spam   Logged
tennis shoe
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 396


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2013, 03:44:28 pm »

What I think a lot of people don’t get is that when the government talks about “faith-based initiatives”, it’s talking about grant money. Since when does government money not have some sort of strings attached? Another popular term these days is “public-private partnership”, the very definition of fascism.

In a way, the government has intentionally violated its self-declared “separation of church and state”. Then again, that phrase is only invoked when politically convenient.

Maybe I’m stating the obvious, but I’m still running into people in my town that haven’t thought much about this, especially in the churches.
Report Spam   Logged
Psalm 51:17
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 28357


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2013, 05:17:59 pm »

"Health Care From the Pulpit’: Here’s How Some Churches Are Spreading the Word About Obamacare

Community organizers are joining pastors across the country to educate and help parishioners sign up for Obamacare. The coordinated initiative, called “Health Care from the Pulpit,” is being implemented by Enroll America, a non-profit with the goal of maximizing ”the number of uninsured Americans who enroll in health coverage made available by the Affordable Care Act.”


"faith-based" organizations are also working with Enroll America

http://www.enrollamerica.org/about-us

Quote
Our Mission

Tens of millions of Americans stand to benefit from more accessible and affordable health care in the wake of health reform, creating an historic opportunity to improve the health and well-being of a significant portion of our society. However, getting all individuals into the health system will not be easy. Experience from previous reforms suggests that there are significant barriers that prevent many people from enrolling—and staying enrolled—in health coverage, and that federal and state governments will need assistance to fully address the “enrollment gap.” We believe the “enrollment gap” can be addressed by creating a seamless consumer-friendly enrollment process, and by making a coordinated, concerted, and wide-reaching effort to ensure that Americans know how and where to sign up for coverage.

Enroll America is a nonpartisan 501(c)(3) organization whose mission is to maximize the number of uninsured Americans who enroll in health coverage made available by the Affordable Care Act. Enroll America is a collaborative organization, working with partners that span the gamut of health coverage stakeholders—health insurers, hospitals, doctors, pharmaceutical companies, employers, consumer groups, faith-based organizations, civic organizations, and philanthropies—to engage many different voices in support of an easy, accessible, and widely available enrollment process


And to boot - this "pro-family" Family Research Council SUPPORTED George W. Bush's faith-based initiatives program in 2001!



Notice that use the word "change-agents" in it! Rick Warren describes himself as that!
Report Spam   Logged
tennis shoe
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 396


View Profile
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2013, 06:27:55 pm »

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I think that nailed it right there. Throughout history, kings have maintained a close relationship with religious leadership. Same with chiefs and witch doctors. Same with Roman governors and Sadducees. If the king stays on friendly terms with them, offering “gifts”, then when push comes to shove, he has some political leverage over the situation. If he blows the relationship off, then he knows that religious leadership can turn the people against him.

Can government tell Christian ministries what to say? Depends on how yoked up they are. There's obviously been a whole lotta yoking going on over the years.
Report Spam   Logged
Kilika
Guest
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2013, 06:44:30 am »

Can government tell christian churchianity ministries...?

Sure can, and does, via 501c3.

Real Christians don't listen to secular government, they do what God says.
Report Spam   Logged
Mark
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 21786



View Profile
« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2015, 11:12:12 pm »

Report Spam   Logged

What can you do for Jesus?  Learn what 1 person can accomplish.

The Man from George Street
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkjMvPhLrn8
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by EzPortal
Bookmark this site! | Upgrade This Forum
Free SMF Hosting - Create your own Forum

Powered by SMF | SMF © 2016, Simple Machines
Privacy Policy