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"...but if thou mayest be made free..."

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August 08, 2018, 02:38:10 am suzytr says: Hello, any good churches in the Sacto, CA area, also looking in Reno NV, thanks in advance and God Bless you Smiley
January 29, 2018, 01:21:57 am Christian40 says: It will be interesting to see what happens this year Israel being 70 years as a modern nation may 14 2018
October 17, 2017, 01:25:20 am Christian40 says: It is good to type Mark is here again!  Smiley
October 16, 2017, 03:28:18 am Christian40 says: anyone else thinking that time is accelerating now? it seems im doing days in shorter time now is time being affected in some way?
September 24, 2017, 10:45:16 pm Psalm 51:17 says: The specific rule pertaining to the national anthem is found on pages A62-63 of the league rulebook. It states: “The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem. “During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.”
September 20, 2017, 04:32:32 am Christian40 says: "The most popular Hepatitis B vaccine is nothing short of a witch’s brew including aluminum, formaldehyde, yeast, amino acids, and soy. Aluminum is a known neurotoxin that destroys cellular metabolism and function. Hundreds of studies link to the ravaging effects of aluminum. The other proteins and formaldehyde serve to activate the immune system and open up the blood-brain barrier. This is NOT a good thing."
http://www.naturalnews.com/2017-08-11-new-fda-approved-hepatitis-b-vaccine-found-to-increase-heart-attack-risk-by-700.html
September 19, 2017, 03:59:21 am Christian40 says: bbc international did a video about there street preaching they are good witnesses
September 14, 2017, 08:06:04 am Psalm 51:17 says: bro Mark Hunter on YT has some good, edifying stuff too.
September 14, 2017, 04:31:26 am Christian40 says: i have thought that i'm reaping from past sins then my life has been impacted in ways from having non believers in my ancestry.
September 11, 2017, 06:59:33 am Psalm 51:17 says: The law of reaping and sowing. It's amazing how God's mercy and longsuffering has hovered over America so long. (ie, the infrastructure is very bad here b/c for many years, they were grossly underspent on. 1st Tim 6:10, the god of materialism has its roots firmly in the West) And remember once upon a time ago when shacking up b/w straight couples drew shock awe?

Exodus 20:5  Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
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Psalm 51:17
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« Reply #60 on: February 27, 2012, 08:19:35 am »

Eph 6:5  Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;
Eph 6:6  Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;


When you look at this passage - yeah, it says that to be obedient to your masters(your bosses, employers, or whomeover you want to call them), but look WHAT ELSE it says...as servants of CHRIST, as UNTO CHRIST, doing the will of GOD FROM THE HEART.

OK, let's say your boss goes on a bit of a tirade for a week and starts hurling insults at you, even though you did good work. Doesn't scripture say that we should suffer for doing good? So pretty much this passage would apply here.

HOWEVER, OTOH, let's say your boss/employer tells you that in order for the company to be successful, it would be "ok to toe the line and cheat a little", and that "we need to work Sundays as well" - would this be "doing the will of God from the heart"? NO! And for that matter too, what if you're in a workplace that is very limited in terms of sharing your faith with others? No, of course it's not being servants of Christ!

And as for "having a career"? Isn't this a CHOICE? Shouldn't we just be CONTENT with what we have(even if it means to stay at the bottom of the ladder throughout your working life), as "But godliness with contentment is great gain"?

Wondering what everyone else thinks of this particular passage.
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« Reply #61 on: February 27, 2012, 11:22:03 am »

Quote
and that "we need to work Sundays as well" - would this be "doing the will of God from the heart"

could you expand on that please?

Also, Jesus himself want like this single carpenter that made like cups. He was what we would call a "contractor" today. Big business. I doubt he was poor, probably well off. Read the Real Jesus by Ted Garner, very old book
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Psalm 51:17
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« Reply #62 on: February 27, 2012, 11:48:15 am »

could you expand on that please?

Also, Jesus himself want like this single carpenter that made like cups. He was what we would call a "contractor" today. Big business. I doubt he was poor, probably well off. Read the Real Jesus by Ted Garner, very old book

Isn't Sundays when Christians have their rest, worship, and fellowship, b/c this is the day when Jesus resurrected? Isn't this also the day the Apostles got together to do just this as well?

Will check out the book when I get the chance - what did Jesus mean when he said he has no place to lay his head(whereas foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests)?
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« Reply #63 on: February 27, 2012, 11:56:54 am »

Isn't Sundays when Christians have their rest, worship, and fellowship, b/c this is the day when Jesus resurrected? Isn't this also the day the Apostles got together to do just this as well?

Will check out the book when I get the chance - what did Jesus mean when he said he has no place to lay his head(whereas foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests)?

They met on the first day of the week, this is true, yet it wasnt a holy day and it was never considdered the Sabbath.

The Lord gave up his business and everything else when his ministry started. Its speculated that the marriage feast that starts the Lords ministry was for his last sister, that after Joespehs death Jesus became head of the home and had to marry off his sisters. If so that party was quite extravagent and all would have been paid by Jesus as he was satnding in place of Joseph, for her dowery. It would have cost quite a bit, and as we can see that Jesus didnt have anything afterward, so much so that he entrusted his mom to the care of John. just saying...
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« Reply #64 on: February 27, 2012, 03:26:55 pm »

No, scripture says that every man needs to be fully persuaded in his own mind as to what he celebrates, etc. One can observe the sabbath every day if they want. We have no such customs. We have liberty in Christ that allows us to worship with freedom, not restrictions to a given day.

However, if you decide you want to observe the Sabbath, as defined in Judaism, go for it. Whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. Keep in mind that is your choice only. It does not apply to any other person, unless they decide for themselves that they want to observe as you. It's all about choice, not law and requirements.

We don't earn points or a better salvation by observing rituals and customs. That's an act of the flesh, and profits us nothing. We "earn" rewards as a result of God seeing us do good works as moved by the Spirit, not our own agenda. With the Spirit, we will do good works, and we will have our rewards as a result of our faith. Thank you Jesus!
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« Reply #65 on: February 28, 2012, 06:20:49 pm »

Just to shift the discussion(but NOT the topic) for a bit...

When I read one of Franklin Graham's books awhile back(Yes, he's Billy's son), every once in awhile he would point out how "this is a sin, that's a sin". For example, he said how discouragement is a sin.

Yes, this is all but true, but what is WRONG with this picture? Does Franklin remember the times Peter got discouraged, in particular after he regretted denying Jesus 3 times? Didn't Jesus nonetheless tell him afterwards "Feed my sheep"? Or how about David in the wilderness when he thought he was feeling hopeless at one time? Didn't God come to his rescue?

Ultimately, one of the agendas of these wolves is obviously to deceive everyone so they can come back in bondage(which Paul warned about in Galatians). No, Franklin Graham et al don't exactly blatantly preach how we should be under the law, however they're doing things VERY subtlely, like mentioned above - so pretty much they're saying things to try to make you feel very guilty and pitiful, and ultimately to try to plant the seeds to turn your hearts away from our blessed hope in Jesus Christ, which is eternal life. So basically the message F. Graham was trying to get out is that "You're a bad person if you feel discouraged". Obviously, this man has no idea who Apostle Peter is.

Stick to the word and faith in Jesus Christ ALONE, and ye mayest be made free! Smiley
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« Reply #66 on: March 10, 2012, 10:47:51 am »

Has anyone here read Randall Baer's "Inside the New Age Nightmare"? He said in it how New Age ideologies have infiltrated just about every aspect of society - business, education, relgious/private/public institutions, etc. And when this book was written, it was written back in the *1980's*. So if New Age ideologies et al infiltrated a wide range of business sectors back then, just imagine how bad it is NOW.

Yeah, seriously, today's Churchianity really needs to evaluate the "if ye don't work, ye can't eat" passage again. Getting involved in the New Age in *ANY* way is really serious, and produces serious consequences. Jesus says you can't serve 2 masters, and being involved with the New Age in any way is doing JUST THAT. But en yet alot of the business sectors in this country and world are doing so.(No, I'm not saying every business sector and institution is, FWIW)
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« Reply #67 on: March 27, 2012, 09:41:40 am »

Hey guys, I really need your prayers on this...

I just got a call from one of the job placement services, and the guy on the phone told me that he wants to meet with me tomorrow, and from there hopefully place me in a full time job in the metroplex.

The reason why I'm asking is b/c I've been reading books exposing the New Age Movement, and both Randall Baer and Constance Cumbey have warned how New Age ideologies, teachings, and deceptions have really spread everywhere, INCLUDING alot of the workforces in this country. So you just never know what kind of questions this job recuiter will ask me, what kind of situations he may want to put me in, etc.

I mean when I was reading Baer's and Cumbey's books, they were in the *1980's* - yah, the way they documented everything in the New Age Movement, you thought they were writing about *in our present time*. So ultimately, if things in the NAM were really wretched then...again, fast-forward *20-30 years later*. Shocked

Again, today's "church" needs to reevaluate "if ye don't work, ye can't eat" - especially with all the New Age nonsense infiltrating workforces today.

Anyhow, we all go through some really trying times b/c the Lord wants to test us to see if we truely love him(if I said this wrong here, please correct me). So please everyone here, if anyone has any advice on how to handle certain things, what your experiences were with all this, and of course your prayers are very welcome as well.
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« Reply #68 on: March 27, 2012, 04:47:43 pm »

That's all fine and dandy what those authors say, but what does scriptures say? "Examine yourselves..."
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« Reply #69 on: March 27, 2012, 04:59:30 pm »

Oh no - what I meant(sorry, I know I can draw out my posts) is that what are the kinds of things, especially nowdays, that today's workforce will subtlely try to pull on their employees to do? Not that I'm worried or anything, but at the same time it concerns me that something can get thrown at me that can easily yoke me unawares.

It's not just those 2 authors I brought up, but overall, it's the ENTIRE New Age Movement I've been studying on recently, and how pretty much I am somewhat surprised by how New Age ideologies have spread all over the place. The NAM is widely networked, but they do NOT have a "heirarchy" per se. So pretty much there are alot of people or "leaders" per se out there promoting the New Age, but at the same time they may not have idea what they're really doing.

Anyhow, we're supposed to be wise as serpents - I know a few of you here gave your testimonies over former places you worked at, and why you guys left as well(others on PPF talked about their testimonies on this as well).
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« Reply #70 on: March 27, 2012, 05:05:12 pm »

Sure, like those group pep rallys that Walmart does every morning. Yeah, those group team building things creep me out to be honest it's so phoney and shallow.
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« Reply #71 on: March 29, 2012, 11:52:23 am »

Anyhow, here are some passages with the word "eat" in them...read and and listen to what the SPIRIT has to say to you...

Mat_6:25  Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?

Mat_6:31  Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?

Mat 14:14  And Jesus went forth, and saw a great multitude, and was moved with compassion toward them, and he healed their sick.
Mat 14:15  And when it was evening, his disciples came to him, saying, This is a desert place, and the time is now past; send the multitude away, that they may go into the villages, and buy themselves victuals.
Mat 14:16  But Jesus said unto them, They need not depart; give ye them to eat.
Mat 14:17  And they say unto him, We have here but five loaves, and two fishes.
Mat 14:18  He said, Bring them hither to me.
Mat 14:19  And he commanded the multitude to sit down on the grass, and took the five loaves, and the two fishes, and looking up to heaven, he blessed, and brake, and gave the loaves to his disciples, and the disciples to the multitude.
Mat 14:20  And they did all eat, and were filled: and they took up of the fragments that remained twelve baskets full.
 they say unto him, We have here but five loaves, and two fishes.

Mat 15:15  Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable.
Mat 15:16  And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?
Mat 15:17  Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
Mat 15:18  But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
Mat 15:19  For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
Mat 15:20  These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

Mat 15:32  Then Jesus called his disciples unto him, and said, I have compassion on the multitude, because they continue with me now three days, and have nothing to eat: and I will not send them away fasting, lest they faint in the way.

Mat_26:26  And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.

Mar 2:16  And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners?
Mar 2:17  When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Luk_12:29  And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind.

Luk 15:21  And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.
Luk 15:22  But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
Luk 15:23  And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:
Luk 15:24  For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

Luk 22:10  And he said unto them, Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you, bearing a pitcher of water; follow him into the house where he entereth in.
Luk 22:11  And ye shall say unto the goodman of the house, The Master saith unto thee, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?
Luk 22:12  And he shall shew you a large upper room furnished: there make ready.

Joh 4:30  Then they went out of the city, and came unto him.
Joh 4:31  In the mean while his disciples prayed him, saying, Master, eat.
Joh 4:32  But he said unto them, I have meat to eat that ye know not of.
Joh 4:33  Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat?
Joh 4:34  Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

Joh 6:47  Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
Joh 6:48  I am that bread of life.
Joh 6:49  Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
Joh 6:50  This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
Joh 6:51  I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

1Co_5:11  But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

1Co_10:7  Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.

1Co 10:27  If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake.
1Co 10:28  But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:
1Co 10:29  Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience?
1Co 10:30  For if I by grace be a partaker, why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks?
1Co 10:31  Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.

1Co 11:24  And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
1Co 11:25  After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
1Co 11:26  For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
1Co 11:27  Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
1Co_11:28  But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

Jas_5:3  Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days.

Rev_2:7  He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Rev_2:20  Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

Rev_17:16  And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the ****, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

Rev_19:18  That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
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« Reply #72 on: April 03, 2012, 09:48:55 am »

It can be really easy to put oneself under the yoke of men, which is best if one stays far away as possible from them.

I’m pretty sure that’s the answer right there. I also think that this will be more of a challenge for professing believers as time goes on.
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« Reply #73 on: April 03, 2012, 07:56:03 pm »

Which Vocations Should Be Off Limits to Christians?

The Reformation doctrine of vocation teaches that even seemingly secular jobs and earthly relationships are spheres where God assigns Christians to live out their faith. But are there some lines of work that Christians should avoid?


The early church required new members to give up their occupations as gladiators or actors. Whether Christians should enter military service has been controversial at several points in church history. So has holding political or judicial offices. Recently, New York Times columnist David Brooks suggested that Christians should not become professional athletes. He observed that "the moral ethos of sport"---which centers on pride---"is in tension with the moral ethos of faith," which requires humility.

So what guidance can we find from the doctrine of vocation? There is more to that teaching than most people realize, so let's review some of its more salient points. (To study this in more depth, you can check out my book God at Work: Your Christian Vocation in All of Life and follow the Bible references and footnotes. Also see my new book Family Vocation: God's Calling in Marriage, Parenting, and Childhood for yet more facets of this critical teaching for how Christians can live out faith in the world and in their everyday relationships.)
God Never Calls Us to Sin

"Vocation" is simply the Latinate word for "calling." The doctrine of vocation means that God assigns us to a certain life---with its particular talents, tasks, responsibilities, and relationships---and then calls us to that assignment (1 Corinthians 7:17). God never calls us to sin. All callings, or vocations, from God are thus valid places to serve. So strictly speaking there are no unlawful vocations; the question should actually be whether or not a particular way of making a living is a vocation at all.

God himself works through human vocations in providential care as he governs the world. He provides daily bread through farmers and bakers. He protects us through lawful magistrates. He heals us by means of physicians, nurses, and pharmacists. He creates new life through mothers and fathers. So we can ask whether or not God extends blessings through a particular line of work.

The purpose of every vocation, in all of the different spheres in which our multiple vocations occur---the family, the workplace, the culture, and the church---is to love and serve our neighbors. Loving God and loving our neighbors sums up our purpose (Matthew 22:36-40). Having been reconciled to God through Christ, we are then sent by God into the world to love and serve him by loving and serving our neighbors. This happens in vocation. So we can ask of every kind of work we doing, "Am I loving and serving my neighbor, or am I exploiting and tempting him?"

Obviously, those who make their living by robbery are not loving their neighbors. Heroin dealers, hit men, con artists, and other criminals are hurting their neighbors and have no calling from God to do so.

But there are some legal professions that also involve harming their neighbors instead of loving and serving them. An abortionist kills his small neighbor in the womb. An internet pornographer is abusing the neighbors he is exploiting sexually and, moreover, causing the neighbors who are his customers to sin.
Can Soldiers Be Saved?

Other occupations may not be so cut and dry.

We are told not only to love our neighbors but to love our enemies, but the work of a soldier is to kill his enemy. So should Christians not enlist in the military? Luther took up this question in an important treatise, Whether Soldiers Too Can Be Saved. The short answer he gives is yes. Though as individual Christians we must not kill, God certainly has the right to take human life. And God works through the governing authorities, which according to Romans 13 are his agents in restraining and punishing evil so that a society of fallen human beings is possible. Those agents specially include those vocations that "bear the sword" (Romans 13:4). Luther concludes that soldiers in a Romans 13 chain of command are authorized by their calling to love and serve their fellow citizens by defending them, even when that means killing the enemy. Soldiers, as Christians, should indeed love those enemies---not hate them, hold malice against them, or mistreat captives or civilians---but they have an authorization to do what soldiers have to do.

This point must not be missed: vocation comes with an authorization, so that someone within that vocation may do things someone outside it may not. Sexual intercourse is a sin outside the vocations of marriage, but a good work within those vocations of husband and wife. Physicians can do things to someone else's body---whether see a patient naked or cut the patient open---that others should not.
Pleasure Through Vocation

Still, opinions will vary about other professions. One of the Lutheran confessions in dealing with the doctrine of vocation specifically condemns the notion "That a Christian cannot with a good conscience be an inn-keeper, merchant, or maker of weapons" (Formula of Concord XII). A gunsmith can love and serve his neighbors with his craft. A merchant should not cheat his neighbors or give them bad merchandise, but rather love and serve them by providing goods and services that meet the neighbor's needs. Inn-keepers were more controversial, since the inns of the day were usually also taverns, places of drinking and revelry. Some Christians may think that selling alcohol or running a nightclub might not be a valid vocation. We Lutherans are confessionally bound and personally inclined to disagree.

This brings up the entertainment industry, which spans actors disapproved by the early church through professional athletes disapproved by David Brooks. It seems that providing pleasure is a way of loving and serving people. To be sure, there are sinful pleasures. But why shouldn't God, who adorned his creation so beautifully and has given us a joy in other people that is in fact akin to love, create pleasure through vocation?

On the analogy of God giving us our daily bread through the vocation of farmers and creating new life through the vocation of parents, we can say that God creates works of beauty and meaning through the vocation of artists. Vocation is a function of the talent, abilities, interests, and opportunities that God gives to each individual. This applies to scientists and craftsmen, and it surely applies to those who have the talent to make music, to draw, to devise stories, and (yes) to act. (See God's gifts for artists in Exodus 35:30-36:2, a key biblical passage on vocation.)

Athletes too have their talents and abilities from the hand of God. Of course it is legitimate to use them. And they can use those gifts in bringing pleasure to those of us who marvel at them, just as musicians play for an audience and so bless them, and just as the hundreds of people listed in the credits of a motion picture can in a powerful film bless those of us in the audience.
Profiting from Sin

Again, we need to make distinctions. A casino blackjack dealer might be considered part of the "entertainment industry," bringing a jolt of pleasure and excitement to her customers, but her main goal is not to love and serve them but to win their money. She is also profiting from the sins of her neighbors. A Christian blackjack dealer may argue that she is giving her customers the entertainment of a game of chance in exchange for what she takes from them. Still, this job may be morally problematic. A defensive lineman may execute a good hit on the opposing quarterback---that is the nature of his job---but to injure the quarterback on purpose, as in the current NFL bounty scandal, is clearly to sin in one's vocation.

Vocations, in general, must carry out their proper work and fulfill their proper purpose. A business owner must make a profit; a professional athlete must help his team win. To say these involve selfishness and pride, making them off limits to Christians, confuses different realms. The earthly laws of economics depend on participants following their rational self-interest; but the Christian, while doing so, can also turn the same productive labor into an expression of love and service. The athlete can trounce his opponent and joy in the victory while still being a selfless teammate who honors those on the other side.
Not Equal

Yet here is an irony. Before God all vocations are equal. But that is not so in the world. Often the highest-paying and the highest-status jobs do less for the neighbor than do jobs that the world tends to look down upon. I am ready to concede that the professional athlete and the movie star have legitimate vocations in giving brief moments of pleasure to millions of people. But the love and service rendered by the men who pick up our garbage every week or the women who clean up our hotel rooms is far more immediate and far more important.

The wealthy, esteemed, and honored often have a more problematic vocation than do the poorer folks who, in a kind of labor the Bible especially honors, work with their hands (1 Thessalonians 4:11). The "idle rich"---those with inherited wealth who did nothing to earn it and just spent it all on themselves---inspired many rants from the Puritans. Not that the Puritans opposed wealth---many of them were busy pioneering capitalism---but in their minds wealth needs to be productive. Usury, by which was meant lending money at interest, was traditionally seen as unchristian, multiplying one's wealth by taking advantage of a neighbor's need. Today's economy, of course, depends on a robust financial system in which lending and investment are very productive indeed, building homes and new businesses and doing great social good. Bankers, financiers, and venture capitalists are indeed legitimate vocations from God.

And yet, what are we to say of the derivative trader, who sits in front of his computer manipulating the finance system without adding goods or services to the collective good? Does he even have a neighbor, since he works in isolation without the slightest interaction with the people whose mortgages he is trading or the companies whose stock he is manipulating? I'm not sure---I'm not even sure what a derivative is!---but his work is probably more problematic vocationally than that of the factory worker or the retail clerk or the food service worker.

Since we do not, strictly speaking, choose our vocations but are called to them, they are not completely within our control; rather, God providentially places us in our vocations. So a blackjack dealer who becomes a Christian may well be stuck in that position at least for a time with no other prospects of employment to support her more family (probably her most important vocation), and God may lay upon her the cross of finding a way to live out her faith even in the casino. The same may be true of the derivative trader.

So are some occupations off-limits for Christians? No doubt, but it is not always clear what they are. Vocations are unique---that is to say, God calls and equips individuals in distinct and highly particular ways---so they may resist hard and fast and universally applicable rules and moralistic dictates. Since vocation is about God's work as well as human work, it has to do not just with the law but with the gospel; since vocation is where the Christian life is to be led, it will be an expression of Christian freedom.

http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/2012/03/22/which-vocations-should-be-off-limits-to-christians/
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« Reply #74 on: April 04, 2012, 05:29:14 am »

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We are told not only to love our neighbors but to love our enemies, but the work of a soldier is to kill his enemy. So should Christians not enlist in the military? Luther took up this question in an important treatise, Whether Soldiers Too Can Be Saved. The short answer he gives is yes. Though as individual Christians we must not kill, God certainly has the right to take human life. And God works through the governing authorities, which according to Romans 13 are his agents in restraining and punishing evil so that a society of fallen human beings is possible. Those agents specially include those vocations that "bear the sword" (Romans 13:4). Luther concludes that soldiers in a Romans 13 chain of command are authorized by their calling to love and serve their fellow citizens by defending them, even when that means killing the enemy. Soldiers, as Christians, should indeed love those enemies---not hate them, hold malice against them, or mistreat captives or civilians---but they have an authorization to do what soldiers have to do.

I have been convicted that to join the military as a Christian knowing that your job is to kill people or be part of that act is wrong. If a Christian does join the military dont they know that the government owns them as a soldier? You cant make your own decisions, you must do evil or else!! The Christian becomes a slave to the Government in bondage, yoking with unbelievers and the Christian is expected to kill the enemy, murder is sin. Plus how would a Christian soldier feel about getting microchipped, tainted DNA, serious lifelong injuries? I would really use some wisdom here, we have to make wise choices in the time we live in, the world is going to get more wicked and wicked, even the Lord Jesus said that we are to be wise as serpents.

If a soldier becomes a Christian in the military then Praise the Lord!! But wouldn't the Christian then want to serve the Lord Jesus instead? And that will probably be first to resign from the military.
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« Reply #75 on: April 04, 2012, 02:35:40 pm »

We are to be soldiers for Jesus, not Caesar. End of story. Born-again Christians should not seek service with Caesar, military or not. Consider what is more edifying if nothing else. To live by the law under Casear, or free from the law with Jesus?

"My sons, be not now negligent: for the LORD hath chosen you to stand before him, to serve him, and that ye should minister unto him, and burn incense." 2 Chronicles 29:11 (KJB)

"Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ." 2 Timothy 2:3 (KJB)

9   But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: 
10   Which in time past [were] not a people, but [are] now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy. 
11 ¶ Dearly beloved, I beseech [you] as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul; 
12   Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by [your] good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.
1 Peter 2:9-12 (KJB)
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« Reply #76 on: May 27, 2012, 02:52:23 am »

So, it's kind of hard to hang out in the world workplace when scripture says this...

8   For ye were sometimes darkness, but now [are ye] light in the Lord: walk as children of light: 
9   (For the fruit of the Spirit [is] in all goodness and righteousness and truth;) 
10   Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. 
11   And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove [them]. 
12   For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
Ephesians 5:8-12 (KJB)
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« Reply #77 on: May 30, 2012, 03:13:41 pm »

13   Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine. 
14   Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery. 
15   Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all. 
16   Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee. 
1 Timothy 4:13-16 (KJB)
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« Reply #78 on: May 30, 2012, 03:24:08 pm »

6   I have set watchmen upon thy walls, O Jerusalem, [which] shall never hold their peace day nor night: ye that make mention of the LORD, keep not silence, 
7   And give him no rest, till he establish, and till he make Jerusalem a praise in the earth. 
8   The LORD hath sworn by his right hand, and by the arm of his strength, Surely I will no more give thy corn [to be] meat for thine enemies; and the sons of the stranger shall not drink thy wine, for the which thou hast laboured: 
9   But they that have gathered it shall eat it, and praise the LORD; and they that have brought it together shall drink it in the courts of my holiness. 
10 ¶ Go through, go through the gates; prepare ye the way of the people; cast up, cast up the highway; gather out the stones; lift up a standard for the people. 
11   Behold, the LORD hath proclaimed unto the end of the world, Say ye to the daughter of Zion, Behold, thy salvation cometh; behold, his reward [is] with him, and his work before him. 
12   And they shall call them, The holy people, The redeemed of the LORD: and thou shalt be called, Sought out, A city not forsaken.
Isaiah 62:6-12 (KJB)
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« Reply #79 on: May 31, 2012, 03:40:49 pm »

20   I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
21   I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness [come] by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. 
Galatians 2:20,21 (KJB)
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« Reply #80 on: May 31, 2012, 04:26:29 pm »

Rom 4:14  For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
Rom 4:15  Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Rom 4:16  Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
Rom 4:17  (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
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« Reply #81 on: June 06, 2012, 04:56:30 am »

When the following is considered, it's obvious believers won't make it in the worldly job market! CEO's or politicians? No way. The world knows we are not of them, and we aren't welcome in their world quite frankly. It also hleps to explain why those worldly "doors closed" at various times in life more than they opened, because the world hates us...

"If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you." John 15:19 (KJB)
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« Reply #82 on: June 07, 2012, 04:31:14 pm »

"No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon." Luke 16:13 (KJB)
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« Reply #83 on: June 29, 2012, 10:35:25 pm »

Another thing to consider - yes, we shouldn't be "busybodies", however, just look at Churchianity today...in 99% of those churches, there definitely are members in there that are lacking financially, but why doesn't the church help them? Quite simply, alot of the "offering" money goes into the pastors's salaries/401Ks, and other overhead like adding rooms/small buildings, buidling bigger buildings, and other activities that are pretty secular in nature.

The economy is in pretty rotten shape right now(and obviously won't get any better in light of yesterday's news), so isn't it pretty obvious that employement is getting much harder to come by? Look at all those college grads that are high in debt and can't find anything.

Act 2:38  Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39  For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Act 2:40  And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Act 2:41  Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Act 2:42  And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
Act 2:43  And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.
Act 2:44  And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
Act 2:45  And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
Act 2:46  And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Act 2:47  Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

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« Reply #84 on: July 03, 2012, 03:54:49 am »

1   Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord? 
2   If I be not an apostle unto others, yet doubtless I am to you: for the seal of mine apostleship are ye in the Lord. 
3   Mine answer to them that do examine me is this, 
4   Have we not power to eat and to drink? 
5   Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and [as] the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas? 
6   Or I only and Barnabas, have not we power to forbear working? 
7   Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock? 
8   Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also? 
9   For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? 
10   Or saith he [it] altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, [this] is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope. 
11   If we have sown unto you spiritual things, [is it] a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things? 
12   If others be partakers of [this] power over you, [are] not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ. 
13   Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live [of the things] of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? 
14   Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel. 
15   But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for [it were] better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void. 
16   For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel! 
17   For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation [of the gospel] is committed unto me. 
18   What is my reward then? [Verily] that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel. 
1 Corinthians 9:1-18 (KJB)
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« Reply #85 on: July 18, 2012, 03:13:42 pm »

Anyone here subscribe to Newsweek? My parents do, and there's an article in it in the current issue titled "Screwed Generation", about the 18-35 demographics who feel they have no hope b/c of it being incredibly hard to find employment + the mounting debt from their college educations. At the same time, they are beginning to realize, it seems that they won't achieve this "American Dream" that their parents have provided for them. Over 1/2 of them don't have the "college educated" job that they were hoping for, while the rest of them that do have these jobs just feel hopeless b/c they won't be able to buy things they grew up in for years like nice homes. And for that matter too a big % of them have admitted they are putting off marrying and having kids b/c of their limited incomes.

A very good article(even though it didn't have a Christian point of view in it) - further it talked about how this same 18-35 demographics tend to stray away from alot of the "conservative" views. For example, they support redistribution of wealth, higher taxes, more help from the government, etc(as we all know, redistribution of wealth has been one of the big agendas of the NAM/NWO), as well as alot of the liberal social issues like supporting gay marriage.

So overall, just from what this Newsweek article talks about - while this young generation realizes what's going on around them, at the same time they are choosing to feel hopeless. Also, it's as if they've been conditioned to have this "submit to the government" attitude.

Again, we may have to re-consider what the "ye don't work, ye don't eat" passage Paul preached about.

Rev 13:11  And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:12  And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev 13:13  And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14  And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Rev 13:15  And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
Rev 13:16  And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17  And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Rev 13:18  Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
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« Reply #86 on: July 18, 2012, 03:23:11 pm »

"Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?" Matthew 6:26 (KJB)
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