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Soul Sleep discussion

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Author Topic: Soul Sleep discussion  (Read 1931 times)
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« on: June 13, 2011, 10:42:59 am »

This doctrine bothers me to no end.  How anyone can glean this belief to be true, ignoring a plethora of scriptures to the contrary, spoken by our Lord Jesus Christ, is telling of the lies and deceits of the devil.  It steals the very hope our Lord gives us and continues to incorporate the fears of death that have plagued mankind from the beginning.  What hope is there to lay in a state of nothingness, in the dirt when we die?  None.  It is on the same plane as oblivion, which we know to be false.  Here is a study on this false doctrine and I hope it gives ample ammunition against it and the continuing hope in that we WILL BE with our Lord the moment the breathe leaves our bodies.

http://www.letusreason.org/7thAd22.htm

Quote
SOUL SLEEP

There are those who believe when someone dies they enter a sleep stage. As the body is put in the ground, so is the soul. They interpret the word sleep in the Scripture to be a state of silence, inactivity, unconsciousness for the soul. Since the beginning of the Church those who have studied the Bible have never come to these conclusions, all have had the hope of heaven. Has everyone in Church history believed in error and died with a false hope of being united with Jesus after death?

continues...
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« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2011, 07:48:15 pm »

are there other religions that preach Christ and believe in soul sleep other than Seventh Day Adventist? Huh
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Matt 24:42 "Watch therefor: for you know not what hour your Lord doth come."
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« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2011, 08:16:07 pm »

Lets explore this topic. I believe from my study of Scripture that when we die we awake at either the rapture or Judgment. I believe scripture bears this out.

1Th 4:13  But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14  For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15  For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18  Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

1Co 15:51  Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52  In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53  For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54  So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1Co 15:55  O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

Rev 20:5  But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:13  And the sea gave up the dead which were in it;
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« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2011, 04:43:26 pm »

so are you saying soul sleep is true for unbelievers???
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« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2011, 05:22:42 pm »

so are you saying soul sleep is true for unbelievers???

What i am saying is that when you die, whether a Christian or not you wake up at either the Rapture when Jesus calls all believers to him, or you awaken at Judgment.
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« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2011, 09:28:42 am »

are there other religions that preach Christ and believe in soul sleep other than Seventh Day Adventist? Huh

Yes, the Jehovah's Witnesses.

Dok, does that mean that all the biblical prophets are not in heaven with our Lord at present?  They remain in limbo until Christ's coming?  What of Elijah?  Where is he now?  What of Revelation which shows 'the multitudes' and 'those in white robes' in heaven awaiting the Lord's coming and vengeance for the saints?

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Revelation 7:9-10

9After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 10And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

If I am wrong, I will listen, but I cannot fathom soul sleep in the least.  Jesus says we will be where He is; did He lie to those who have already died in faith?  He says He will prepare a place for us, if this is so, is it not in heaven, as we know everything after His coming is on earth, the millennium is on earth and we will also reside on a new earth in eternity. 

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John 14:1-3

 1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

 2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.


Yes, our flesh 'sleeps' and is 'dead', but our spirits are separate.

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Ecclesiastes 12:7

 7Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

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Psalm 49:15

 15But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave: for he shall receive me.
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« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2011, 11:21:06 am »

Dok, does that mean that all the biblical prophets are not in heaven with our Lord at present?

They are in Heaven with the Lord. The died BEFORE Jesus died. The Lord went and preached in Abrahams Bosom, taking the Saints with him. This who died after this awakes to either the Rapture or Judgment. (1 Peter 3:18-19)


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They remain in limbo until Christ's coming?

Book Chapter and Verse please? Never heard of Limbo except in association with purgatory.

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What of Elijah? Where is he now?

Already covered

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What of Revelation which shows 'the multitudes' and 'those in white robes' in heaven awaiting the Lord's coming and vengeance for the saints?

rapture? As the Trib is already under way, and they werent there a minute ago.

I still do not see anything that conflicts with this. When you die you are either at the Rapture or Judgment. So either the soul is "asleep" or it time travels in the tardis.
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« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2011, 03:48:06 pm »

Seems to me that there is some kind of "delay" if you will, in the sense that people who die have no awareness of time passing, but it appears to them that when they die, they immediately are judged or brought home, but in so called "real time" many years may have passed since the person died. They aren't aware of the passing of time.

I honestly haven't really studied this much at all, so I'm not prepared to back it with scripture. It's just an understanding that I have from what I have read, but don't feel it important eough to really search the answer in detail.

I mean what does it matter? Will knowing what really happens at death make any difference for anyone? Nope. You won't be saved for getting it right, and you won't lose salvation for being wrong, so it's kind of a moot point. Curious topic, but not worth any real discussion, just like the Rapture debate, it doesn't matter for the saved, as we will ever be with the Lord, period.

As for the lost, they are lost, and any details won't change that, only repentence will.
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« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2011, 05:31:31 pm »

well, what did Paul mean when he wrote, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. I do understand we are not to even try to communicate with those who have died in Christ, but I also believe they are now presently with the Lord.
EX: Steven saw the Lord as he was being stoned, Foxes books of martyrs , many of them where looking heaven ward and showed peace not torment....

Maybe it is just a matter of understanding time.
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« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2011, 07:05:43 am »

They are in Heaven with the Lord. The died BEFORE Jesus died. The Lord went and preached in Abrahams Bosom, taking the Saints with him. This who died after this awakes to either the Rapture or Judgment. (1 Peter 3:18-19)


Book Chapter and Verse please? Never heard of Limbo except in association with purgatory.

Already covered

rapture? As the Trib is already under way, and they werent there a minute ago.

I still do not see anything that conflicts with this. When you die you are either at the Rapture or Judgment. So either the soul is "asleep" or it time travels in the tardis.

Dok, those weren't rhetorical questions, I was actually asking and am willing to discuss it. 

"Limbo", as in, neither here nor there, hell or heaven.  If they are not in heaven, then that means they are not in hell, therefore it sounds like the 'purgatory' the Catholics believe, otherwise I don't understand what your belief is.  I have no scripture, because I can't find any where Jesus tells us that we will be in 'limbo'...or that our spirits will stay asleep; our bodies on the other hand will sleep until they are resurrected into the same body our Lord received when He ascended, at His coming, but I see scripture speaking plainly that our spirits will be with our Lord.

So, is your belief that if one of us died tomorrow, but it isn't the rapture yet, then we stay asleep until the rapture?


Quote
Philippians 1:23
 23For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:

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Acts 7:59
 59And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

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2 Corinthians 5
 8We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

When I read these scriptures, I believe them to mean immediate, not future, especially for all those who have already died. 
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« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2011, 10:25:36 am »

From most of the scriptures I read, it is only the body which sleeps.  Does our spirit sleep?  Do angels, who are only spirit, sleep?  No, nor do they eat.  We are both body and spirit, the body is dead without the spirit, the body sleeps and is therefore dead and cannot then have the spirit within it.  So, where do our spirits go?  I believe they go to be with our Lord until those 'sleeping', dead bodies are resurrected into glory.

Quote
Ecclesiastes 12:7

 7Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.


James 2:26

26For as the body without the spirit is dead (asleep), so faith without works is dead also.

Isaiah 42:5

 5Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:

Ezekiel 37:5-6

5Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:

 6And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.


Luke 8:54-55

54And he put them all out, and took her by the hand, and called, saying, Maid, arise.

 55And her spirit came again, and she arose straightway: and he commanded to give her meat.


Revelation 11:11

 11And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

Job 34:14-15

 14If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath;

 15All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.



I honestly don't believe our spirits remain with our dead bodies, they then must go somewhere.
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« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2011, 10:41:09 am »

Yet when we are absent from the body we are with the Lord, at either the Rapture or Judgment. There is no way around this.

Quote
1Th 4:13  But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14  For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15  For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18  Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

It says it all right there. and the dead in Christ shall rise first: The dead being those ones who are asleep. If not than who are these people that meet the Lord in the air at the rapture? These dead, who were asleep, are being raised right along with living believers. Regardless as to when any one thinks this happens, it doesn't happen until this point in time. Which hasn't happened yet. This is the taking of the Bride, and the Father has not let the Son go get the Bride yet. for those who know.

Jesus said he was going to build us mansions than come and get us, another reference to the wedding plan If he hasnt come get us than how can anyone be there? Its weird but the Bible does teach people go to heaven at different times for different periods. The ancients that were in Abraham's Bosum are in Heaven. None of the Christians that have died since Jesus's ascension, are in Heaven. They go at the Rapture.

After the Rapture, during the Trib, the spirit will automatically go to the Lord. Im not to sure what happens during the Millennium.  Huh

Thats my take on it and the Bible backs that up. To us when we die, we go right to the Lord but, a thousand years might have passed on Earth. Do you see what im saying?
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« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2011, 10:46:31 am »

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I honestly don't believe our spirits remain with our dead bodies, they then must go somewhere.

Well where?

Rev 20:13  And the sea gave up the dead which were in it;

How does the sea give up the dead that were in it? How did they get there, how long were they there?

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So, is your belief that if one of us died tomorrow, but it isn't the rapture yet, then we stay asleep until the rapture?

Well, that is what i get from the Scripture and it is where the Spirit leads me, and it makes perfect sense and does not cause a contention.
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« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2011, 10:55:18 am »

Yet when we are absent from the body we are with the Lord, at either the Rapture or Judgment. There is no way around this.

It says it all right there. and the dead in Christ shall rise first: The dead being those ones who are asleep. If not than who are these people that meet the Lord in the air at the rapture? These dead, who were asleep, are being raised right along with living believers. Regardless as to when any one thinks this happens, it doesn't happen until this point in time. Which hasn't happened yet. This is the taking of the Bride, and the Father has not let the Son go get the Bride yet. for those who know.

Jesus said he was going to build us mansions than come and get us, another reference to the wedding plan If he hasnt come get us than how can anyone be there? Its weird but the Bible does teach people go to heaven at different times for different periods. The ancients that were in Abraham's Bosum are in Heaven. None of the Christians that have died since Jesus's ascension, are in Heaven. They go at the Rapture.

After the Rapture, during the Trib, the spirit will automatically go to the Lord. Im not to sure what happens during the Millennium.  Huh

Thats my take on it and the Bible backs that up. To us when we die, we go right to the Lord but, a thousand years might have passed on Earth. Do you see what im saying?

Thanks for your thoughts, Dok!  I am trying.  I agree with your statements, yes, there will be a resurrection of the dead when Christ returns, but it seems some rise when He ascends and descends.  Some even mingle around town in Matthew rising just after Jesus:

Quote
Matthew 27:50-53
King James Version (KJV)
 50Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
 51And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
 52And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
 53And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Are both the 'dead in Christ'?  It seems that all from Adam unto Christ ascension are brought with Him from Abraham's Bosom, then again, when Christ 'shouts' at His return, all those dead from His death until His return.  Then we have those still alive and remain, who will not experience death but will rise in the air to meet Him.

So, is there really an Abraham's Bosom where the spirit of those dead went or were they asleep?  Believe me, I understand the whole 'time' thing, that it passes so that when one dies and then awakes, it seems as if there were no span, but for me scripture screams we will be with Him, just as all the other dead are as in the Matthew passage.

Why should we have to 'sleep' until He comes again if those at His death and ascension are already there with Him?  Meaning if He has already taken the dead from Adam until His death, why will we then still sleep?
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« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2011, 11:01:49 am »

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"Limbo", as in, neither here nor there, hell or heaven.  If they are not in heaven, then that means they are not in hell, therefore it sounds like the 'purgatory' the Catholics believe, otherwise I don't understand what your belief is.  I have no scripture, because I can't find any where Jesus tells us that we will be in 'limbo'...or that our spirits will stay asleep; our bodies on the other hand will sleep until they are resurrected into the same body our Lord received when He ascended, at His coming, but I see scripture speaking plainly that our spirits will be with our Lord.

Well Catholic Purgatory is just like Hell. No real difference except you get out of it eventually if you pay enough money to the Catholic church. Purgatory and indulgences were created so the Popes could fund their wars. They do not exist and are not found in scripture.

Quote
I have no scripture, because I can't find any where Jesus tells us

Jesus himself is the Author of the whole Bible through the Holy Spirit. Not Moses or Paul or Luke or Amos. Jesus himself, so every word in the Bible is Jesus talking to us. He wrote 1 Th 4:13-18, so he told you right there. concerning them which are asleep he is talking about the dead, not those off snoozing. Paul didnt write that, well he penned it, but it came from Jesus through the Holy Spirit.

Quote
our bodies on the other hand will sleep until they are resurrected

 Huh we get brand new bodies. Not these old earthly things. Dust to dust...

2Co 5:1  For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2Co 5:2  For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
2Co 5:3  If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
2Co 5:4  For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
2Co 5:5  Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.


1Co 15:51  Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52  In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53  For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54  So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1Co 15:55  O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?


Quote
but I see scripture speaking plainly that our spirits will be with our Lord.

And we will be, at the Rapture.  Smiley
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« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2011, 11:20:23 am »

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It seems that all from Adam unto Christ ascension are brought with Him from Abraham's Bosom, then again, when Christ 'shouts' at His return, all those dead from His death until His return.  Then we have those still alive and remain, who will not experience death but will rise in the air to meet Him.

The Bible does not say ALL. What it does say is and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,. See that word? slept? Some of the dead were raised, when Jesus died, not when he came back. He took the people from Abraham's Bosom with him to Heaven. Not everyone was raised when he died.

So you can see just fro the verse you used Mat 27:52 that they believed the dead slept.

Quote
So, is there really an Abraham's Bosom where the spirit of those dead went or were they asleep?  Believe me, I understand the whole 'time' thing, that it passes so that when one dies and then awakes, it seems as if there were no span, but for me scripture screams we will be with Him, just as all the other dead are as in the Matthew passage.

Jesus said there was, enough for me. The passage in Matt only mentions "many" not all.

Quote
Why should we have to 'sleep' until He comes again if those at His death and ascension are already there with Him?  Meaning if He has already taken the dead from Adam until His death, why will we then still sleep?

I dont know, what i do know is that we as the Bride, and what is happening now is just like an ancient Jewish wedding. The Groom goes and prepares a home for his bride, and when the Father of the Groom feels the Groom is ready he will send the Groom to get the Bride. This could happen at any time. Then there is a feast and the wedding night that lasts 7 days. Its a very interesting study.

any way..  the Bible does teach we sleep.
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« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2011, 09:46:14 pm »

true, the Bible refers to death as sleep ( those who sleep in the Lord for example)  Good thread! 
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« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2011, 02:30:56 am »

Settling the Soul Sleep Controversy


"And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God... And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit." —Acts 7:56,59


       There is no controversy if you believe the Bible. Soul Sleep refers to the idea that when we die, our souls "fall asleep" and become totally unconscious. Conversely, the Bible teaches that believers who die immediately go to be with the Lord. Certain false religions; such as the Jehovah's Witnesses and Seventh-Day Adventists errantly teach that Christians are not conscious after death, and that their soul remains at rest in the grave until a future resurrection; however, there are numerous Scriptures which thwart such speculation.

Consider the powerful evidence in Acts 7:54-59 concerning the murder of Stephen... "When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth. But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord. And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul. And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."

Now do you really think that the Apostle Stephen, who was literally being stoned to death for preaching the Gospel [who is seeing the heaven's opened right before his very eyes and the Lord standing on the right hand of the Father]... do you really think that Stephen just went into unconsciousness in the grave? Of course not! Stephen went to Heaven to be with the Lord.

There are many such Scriptures which evidence that believers who die now are conscious in Heaven...

Ephesians 3:14 and 15 states, "For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named." There's a family in Heaven and earth, i.e., some are alive in Heaven and others are still in the flesh on earth. This is irrefutable evidence against the heresy of soul sleep. Departed saints compose the "family in Heaven."

In Luke 15:10 we read, "Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth." The Bible doesn't say that the angels rejoice, although I'm certain they do. It says that there's rejoicing "in the presence of the angels." I believe this refers to Christians already in Heaven, i.e., the family in Heaven.

In Genesis 5:24 we are told, "And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him." Clearly, God took Enoch to Heaven to share in sweet fellowship with his friend.

In 2nd Kings 2:11 we read, "And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven." Elijah was taken up into Heaven the Bible says. Elijah did not cease to be conscious.

Matthew 17:1-4 reads, "And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias." Moses had been dead (Deuteronomy 34:5) for fifteen centuries; yet, despite being dead, he is able to speak to Jesus. Clearly, Moses' soul was not asleep in the grave. The same is true of Elijah, who centuries earlier had been caught up in a whirlwind (2nd Kings 2:11). Elijah was still conscious.

The Bible tells us in Luke 16:22 that Lazarus was "carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom." Clearly this was not soul sleep as some false cults and prophets teach. Only a fool would claim that Jesus was telling a parable that isn't true in Luke 16:19-31. If it were merely a parable, then the Lord would be guilty of raising false hopes and misleading us concerning what occurs after death. In John 14:2 Jesus plainly stated, “In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.” Jesus said what He meant, and meant what He said. If Jesus taught that Lazarus (a literal name) was carried by angels to his heavenly abode, then you can rest assure that we can expect the same. Amen!

1st Thessalonians 4:14 tells us, “For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.” When Jesus returns at the Rapture, the Bible teaches that God will bring those who “sleep in Jesus” WITH HIM. Amen! The only way for God to bring those saints WITH HIM means that they were already WITH HIM in Heaven. Those who die in the Lord are asleep in Jesus, but their soul and spirit are in Heaven with the Lord.

Philippians 3:20 says, “For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ.” The Greek word for “conversation” means “CITIZENSHIP, A COMMUNITY.” Thus, every believer is already a citizen of our Heavenly home. There is a community in Heaven where we are being expected. When we die, there will be a heavenly family awaiting and welcoming us.

Revelation 20:13 states, “And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.” Carefully notice that the Bible differentiates between “death” and “hell” here. If soul sleep were true, then there would be no dead coming from hell, only from death. The fact that God differentiates between the sea, death and hell, I think is further solid evidence that soul sleep is not a Biblical teaching. We read clearly that some of the dead came from hell.

Matthew 22:32 states, “I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.” God is not the God of the DEAD; but of the LIVING.

2nd Corinthians 5:8, “We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.” Paul said to be absent from the body means to be PRESENT WITH THE LORD. If our soul is unconscious when our body dies, then how can we be “absent” from the body? The Bible teaches that we will be with the Lord while absent from our body. Clearly, the Word of God teaches that the soul separates from the body at death. Amen!

In Luke 23:43 Jesus told the repentant thief on the cross... "To day shalt thou be with me in paradise." Jesus didn't say anything about soul sleep.

Some people believe that dead believers today are unconscious and will remain so until they are raised up again at the Rapture; but I think all of the Scriptures I just quoted overwhelmingly evidence that believers are still conscious after death and go to Heaven to be with the Lord.
 

What about the wicked?

False cults such as the Jehovah's Witnesses deny that unbelievers go Hell. They define "hell" as merely the grave. Mormons also teach this heresy. Psalm 9:17 quickly silences such speculation as unbiblical rubbish... "The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God." Psalm 9:17 would make absolutely no sense at all if hell is merely "the grave." Why would the Bible warn that the wicked and the righteous go to the SAME place? Clearly, the Bible is warning that the wicked and those who forget God will be PUNISHED in Hellfire.

Arnold Murray is a false prophet in Arkansas, who teaches that unbelievers don't go to Hell; but rather, are annihilated. This is unscriptural. Many such false prophets lurk within America's churches today.

2nd Thessalonians 1:8-9 warns, "In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power." Mark 3:29 sternly warns, "But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation." The Greek word for "blaspheme" means "to vilify; specially, to speak impiously (lacking due respect for God)." Romans 1:21,22 proclaim... "Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools." These people refuse to acknowledge God in their lives. They are unthankful. Their minds are filled with silly and empty thoughts of sarcasm against God. Their foolish hearts grow darker and darker every day. The world is filled with such Christ-rejecters today, who continually place God on trial and challenge His goodness and divine sovereignty. For example, The Rational Response Squad.

Thus, anyone who rejects Jesus Christ as their personal Savior will be punished in flaming fire (2nd Thessalonians 1:8). It is a matter of obeying God, i.e., obeying the Gospel (the good news of Christ's redeeming work by which we can be wholly forgiven and have everlasting life). Thankfully, all that God requires of us is that we acknowledge our guilt of sin and believe on Jesus as the Christ... "To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins."

Jude 1:7 reads, "Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."
The Bible teaches that the wicked are presently suffering, and thus are NOT unconscious.
 

Feeble Arguments


One of the Scriptures used by proponents of the Soul Sleep heresy is Ecclesiastes 9:5, which states, "For the living know that they will die; but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten." However, the context shows that this verse is not speaking about soul sleep at all, just as "they have no more reward" is not denying the resurrection of the dead. As evidence that Solomon (i.e., the author of Ecclesiastes) did NOT believe in soul sleep, one can cite Ecclesiastes 12:7 from the same Book... "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was; and the spirit shall return to God who gave it." That is, the soul has an existence independent of the body, and returns to God at death. This clearly shows that soul sleep is unbiblical.

Probably the strongest argument which proponents of soul sleep use is Daniel 12:2 and 13, "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt ... But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days." Admittedly, these Scriptures taken by themselves would seem to evidence that soul sleep is Biblical. However, the only correct way to interpret the Word of God is by comparing Scripture with Scripture. In order to “rightly divide the Word of truth” we must also take into consideration 1st Thessalonians 4:14-16...

    “For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first.”

The key word is “asleep” which simply means “dead” in the Greek. Thus, the believers spirit and body are separated at the time of physical death. Many people are as confused about the word “sleep” in the Old Testament as Jesus' disciples were about Lazarus' death...

    “These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead” (John 11:11-14).


In the case of Lazarus, "sleep" simply meant physical death. Jesus disciples misunderstood what "sleep" meant. Thus is the case with those today who claim that believers who die are asleep spiritually in the grave. Daniel 12:2 and 13 speak of physical death, and of the future resurrection of the dead bodily from the grave, when the spirit will be united with the body and then the judgment.
 

Does Daniel 12:2 Only Speak of a Jewish National Resurrection?

I disagree with Oliver B. Greene's interpretation of Daniel 12:2, i.e., that this is a resurrection of the NATION of Israel from amongst dead nations (Daniel, by Oliver B. Greene; pg. 464, copyright 1964). Certainly, there will be a national resurrection of Israel, i.e., a restoration of every saved Jew to the Promised Land; but this has nothing to do with Daniel 12:2 in my humble opinion. Dr. Greene believes that the resurrection spoken of in Daniel 12:2 is neither physical nor spiritual; but rather, a restoration of the Jews to their homeland in Palestine. The problem I have with that is the phrase, "them that sleep in the dust." Clearly, the Bible is speaking about the DEAD in the earth, i.e., the dust of the earth. It is clear to me that Daniel 12:2 speaks of a future bodily resurrection.

I do agree with Dr. Greene that the Bible nowhere teaches a "general resurrection" as seems to be indicated here in Daniel 12:2. Revelation 20:6 speaks of the FIRST resurrection and Revelation 20:5 of the SECOND (see also Revelation 20:11-15 concerning the SECOND resurrection and death). The saved and unsaved will NOT stand in the same judgment. Thus, I think that Daniel 12:2 speaks in a broader sense of future judgments, and not to any one particular judgment or resurrection. Revelation chapter 20 is evidence of this.

Daniel 12:2 speaks concerning those who are dead physically. Revelation chapter 20 clearly teaches that there will be TWO bodily resurrections and TWO judgments. The FIRST resurrection will be at the Rapture for all believers (1st Thessalonians 4:14-16; 1st Corinthians 15:51-54). At this time the Judgment Seat of Christ for all believers will take place (2nd Corinthians 5:10).

The SECOND resurrection will be after the 1,000 year Millennial Period, and the wicked shall be tried and sentenced to the Lake of Fire forever (Revelation 20:11-15). The judgment for believers will be a civil court, where each believer will give account to God for their life (Romans 14:12; 1st Thessalonians 4:6). However, the Great White Throne of Judgment for unbelievers will be a criminal court, and they will be tried as such. The believer is "safe" in the blood of Christ Jesus, and there is no condemnation.
 

Conclusion

It is important that any honest student of the Bible take into consideration the entire scope of Scriptures, and not just base a doctrine on one or two Scriptures. Overall, the Bible teaches that there is consciousness in the afterlife and that every soul goes to either Heaven or Hell. How will you spend eternity, smoking or non-smoking?

When one considers that Stephen saw the heavens opening to receive him as he was being martyred (Acts 7:54-59), it is only reasonable to conclude that he went to be with the Lord. We see in the Scriptures that Moses and Elijah were present, speaking with the Lord in Matthew 17:1-4. We read in the Scriptures about “the whole family in heaven” (Ephesians 3:14,15) and that we are citizens of Heaven (Philippians 3:20). And again in Luke 16:22 we are told that Lazarus was “carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom.” Ecclesiastes 12:7 plainly states, “Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.” Biblically, the soul separates from the body at death and returns to God, our Creator. 2nd Corinthians 5:8 plainly speaks of one's spirit being “absent from the body”... “to be present with the Lord.”

I hope this brief Bible study helps a bit. I am convinced that believers who pass into eternity from this earthly life have no break in consciousness, and are immediately carried by the angels to Heaven to be with the Lord.

    "We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord." —2nd Corinthians 5:8

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Doctrines/soul_sleep.htm





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akfools
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« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2011, 02:40:57 am »

Present-day defenders of soul sleep include the Seventh Day Adventist church, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Christadelphians, and others.
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« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2011, 04:37:33 am »

when we die, we either go straight to the rapture or straight to judgment. Considering both are still future where are the dead now?
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« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2011, 02:13:09 am »

Considering both are still future where are the dead now?

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.



That is where they are before the judgment! Doesn't sound like any sort of sleep or dormant state to me
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« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2011, 03:56:13 am »

I just read thorugh this thread and WOW, what garbage! Who is this person that authored this junk? More churchianity misinformation from somebody that has exhalted themselves to be some teacher or something.

Those who die, "sleep" in the grave till such a time as they are called from the grave. They have no awareness of that time. I believe they won't perceive it at all, but will perceive when they die that they move right to the judgement seat, though it may have been thousands of years or the day before that they died.

akfools, you're on the wrong side of sound doctrine yet again brother! You REALLY need to reexamine whether your in the faith. And reconsider your source of teachings, because your being fed and believing false doctrines. It has the stench of churchianity all over it.
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« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2011, 05:52:26 am »

When the Bible speaks of the death of a saint as being "sleep" it is speaking of their BODY, not their soul. Lazarus was dead in John 11:11-14, but Jesus referred to this as a "sleep" which Lazarus must be awaken from.

Then Jesus later raised his BODY. In Matthew 27:52 the Bible says, "And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose." Even in the Old Testament the saints were not in an unconscious state while in the "paradise" section of the underworld. In Luke 16:22-31 Abraham was fully alert.

Paul said, "For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better." In II Corinthians 5:8 Paul said, "We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord."

Then in Revelation 6:10 the souls of some martyrs cry out and ask God, "...How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?" They were dead, but they weren't asleep. Soul sleep in heresy.

2 Corinthians 5:8 "We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord."


Philippians 1:21 "For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.
22 *But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.
23 *For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:"


There are many other scriptures that prove that Soul Sleep is false.


Ec 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?
Ec 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.


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« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2011, 07:00:49 am »

When the Bible speaks of the death of a saint as being "sleep" it is speaking of their BODY, not their soul. Lazarus was dead in John 11:11-14, but Jesus referred to this as a "sleep" which Lazarus must be awaken from.

Then Jesus later raised his BODY. In Matthew 27:52 the Bible says, "And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose." Even in the Old Testament the saints were not in an unconscious state while in the "paradise" section of the underworld. In Luke 16:22-31 Abraham was fully alert.

Before Jesus Died and rose.

Paul said, "For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better." In II Corinthians 5:8 Paul said, "We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord."


Present with the Lord at the Rapture.

Then in Revelation 6:10 the souls of some martyrs cry out and ask God, "...How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?" They were dead, but they weren't asleep. Soul sleep in heresy.

That is after the Rapture, if you notice they were not there until AFTER the 5th seal is opened. They were not always there. Where were they?


2 Corinthians 5:8 "We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord."


Hbr 9:27   And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 

Yes we are absent from the body than present with the Lord @ the rapture. 1Th 4:18   Wherefore comfort one another with these words.  Its very simple, either we go to the rapture and be with the Lord, or we go straight to judgment. the is no longer, an inbetween place. Liek Abraham's bosom. its empty.


Philippians 1:21 "For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.
22 *But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.
23 *For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:"


There are many other scriptures that prove that Soul Sleep is false.


Ec 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?
Ec 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.


The thief went to Abrahams Bosom, which was emptied soon after. Now after Jesus resurection, when you die, your next experience is at the Rapture or Judgment. there is nothing else, sorry.
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« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2011, 02:34:02 pm »

What exactly was Samuel "disquieted" from, so that he could be brought up?...

"And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do." 1 Samuel 28:15 (KJB)
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« Reply #25 on: November 29, 2011, 10:42:52 am »

What exactly was Samuel "disquieted" from, so that he could be brought up?...

"And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do." 1 Samuel 28:15 (KJB)


He was resting in paradise. Your assuming disquieted meant he was sleeping? Websters 1828 Definition: DISQUIETED, pp. Made uneasy or restless; disturbed; harassed.  Would you want to be removed from paradise?




Pro 3:5    Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.



When the word sleep appears in scripture it does not always mean physical death.


Ephesians 5:14  Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.
Soul sleep cannot be supported by this verse. The entire context of Ephesians chapter 5 has to do with the believers walk and not that they are physically dead.

Romans 13:11  ¶And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Romans 13:12  The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.

1 Corinthians 15:34  Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

In these verses Paul is telling us about the believers walk and it is difficult to see how anyone could conclude that these people sleeping are physically dead.

          In other verses sleep is referring to physical death.

For example: 1 Corinthians 11:30  For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
1 Thessalonians 4:14  For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 is a verse to encourage the believers concerning "them that are asleep" ( physically dead). The body dies but the soul and spirit are with God and are not dead but are alive.


The apostle Paul makes it very clear that he will not cease to live, even in the death of his physical body.

Philippians 1:22  But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.
23  For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:

2 Corinthians 5:1  ¶For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2  For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

2 Corinthians 5:8  We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

 

In times past the departed souls went into hell, in the heart of the earth. Abraham's bosom (paradise) was one of hell's two compartments. Those in paradise had memory, emotions, feeling and could talk.

Luke 16:25  But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

Luke 16:23  And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.


Those who went to paradise are now in Heaven and are not asleep where they know nothing but instead their soul and spirit are alive.

2 Corinthians 12:4  How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Ephesians 4:8  Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.


In the ages to come the departed souls that had the testimony for the Lord Jesus Christ will go to Heaven. They will be in Heaven waiting for the Lord to return to earth so they can be born again in natural bodies. They also have memory and can talk.

Revelation 6:9  ¶And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10  And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

Revelation 7:9  After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10  And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.


Why would it be different for the Body of Christ when a member dies? Do we sleep without knowing anything until the rapture? Are we not a member of His Body in particular (1 Corinthians 12:27) ? Is this part of His Body asleep without knowing anything? How can we believe that to be with Christ is far better if when we die we go to sleep and won't awake until we meet Him in the air?

 
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« Reply #26 on: November 29, 2011, 11:09:22 am »

The Rapture is the very next thing we know. Abrahams bosum is empty. When we die we wake at either Judgment or the Rapture. Call it what you will, soul sleep, time travel, what ever, that is what happens. Nothing is beyond the Lord.
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« Reply #27 on: November 29, 2011, 07:10:27 pm »

The Rapture is the very next thing we know. Abrahams bosum is empty. When we die we wake at either Judgment or the Rapture. Call it what you will, soul sleep, time travel, what ever, that is what happens. Nothing is beyond the Lord.

So, does that also mean that no one is in hell; that unbelievers 'sleep' as well?  If not in hell, then what is its purpose if unbelievers awake at judgement which is when they will be thrown into the lake of fire along with hell (hades) and death? And also what was the purpose of Abraham's Bosom if no one was ever there?
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« Reply #28 on: November 29, 2011, 07:19:09 pm »

Soul Sleep Is A Lie. At least the title to this thread is correct. Cheesy
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« Reply #29 on: November 29, 2011, 07:26:17 pm »

So, does that also mean that no one is in hell; that unbelievers 'sleep' as well?  If not in hell, then what is its purpose if unbelievers awake at judgement which is when they will be thrown into the lake of fire along with hell (hades) and death? And also what was the purpose of Abraham's Bosom if no one was ever there?

currently? no, no one is in hell yet as judgment hasnt happened yet. hades is a special place and yes it will be tossed into the lake of fire. When did i say no one was ever in Abrahams Bosom? I said no one is there now.

If you were to die right now, your very next experience is either the rapture or judgment. no way around this, no matter how hard you try. you can call it what you will, but that is what will happen. Judgment or the rapture.   
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