Mike Hoggard: Blindly follow the Government

[Psalm 51:17]

I listened to what he said at the 2 minute mark - he said his church is not 501c3, but at the same time he doesn't think it's a bad thing? He said if you send your money to his and other "good" churches, then it means it won't go to the government meaning it's a good thing?

And to boot, he also said he gets a salary(which is why his church is incorporated with the state of MO). Uhhh...for someone who's KJV-only, shouldn't he know that Jesus Christ spoke AGAINST hirelings?(ie-hireling isn't a bad word - it just means that you're getting paid to do a job. But in ministry, this should NOT be the case)

Yeah, I would stray far away as possible from this guy. And for that matter too, KJV-only churches that are 501c3 are no better than all the other non-KJV churches, b/c they've been leavened.

Joh 10:7  Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
Joh 10:8  All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
Joh 10:9  I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
Joh 10:10  The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have [it] more abundantly.
Joh 10:11  I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
Joh 10:12  But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
Joh 10:13  The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
Joh 10:14  I am the good shepherd, and know my [sheep], and am known of mine.
Joh 10:15  As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
Joh 10:16  And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, [and] one shepherd.
Joh 10:17  Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
Joh 10:18  No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

[Kilika]

How are you Kilika and

you BornAgain2 any better than Pasture Mike and the rest of us poor sinners who are just doing the best we

can in this life?

We are not better. Your missing the point. Now your being provocative. Those who know the truth know the we are free from the law of sin and death, as Jesus Christ is in us, we having the mind of Christ. THose that would be greatest are to humble themselves as servants to the younger. We all are to humble ourselves before God, not take up titles and college degrees and proclaim ourselves as experts in theology. We are to humble ourselves and take always the low seat that the Lord may exhault us in His time.

It's your manner of spirit that I rebuke. Humble yourself, and quit promoting men, and preach the gospel of Jesus Christ.

[Degruix]

Jesus Christ told his disciples "Feed my sheep". ANY pastor that has to get a license from the government(in this case filing Articles of Incorporation with the state) is NOT doing any favors to their flock. As a matter of fact, they are hurting their flock more than they are helping them.

Believe me, I've sat in the pews of this system since I was a kid in the early 80's, and the leaven is very obvious. And this isn't a Pastor Mike issue, it's an issue with 99% of churches in America today b/c either 1) Their greed for money, 2) Their heavy lack for discernment, or 3) Their willing ignorance.

Finally an answer, kinda, sorta. Pastor Mike is a bad Pastor because his Church is incorporated. Thank you for finally getting around to answering my question of why do you believe Pastor Mike bad.

Mike Hoggards church BETHEL FREE WILL BAPTIST CHURCH OF FESTUS, MISSOURI and its 2 other names, and 3 other organizations are filled as Non-Profit Corporation with the Missouri Secretary of State. This virtually guarantees a 501c3 filling with the I

Pasture Mike's second audio in the series after the 6/16/11 audio also has a reference to 501c3. In the

audio of 6/23/11 he specifically states his Church is not 501c3 at about the 2 minute mark. He goes on to

rant about 501c3 a little. Here is the link, not that it will matter because on this forum he is bad because

"groupthink" indicates he is bad.

http://blip.tv/pastormikeonline/pastor-mike-online-06-23-11-532209

Your point? The church is registered as NON PROFIT with the secretary of state. That requires a 501c3 filling. sorry you cant accept that. Look i liked Pastor Mike, some of his teachings were very good, others were very screwball. The guy came out and said in his Romans 13 teaching that HE would protect his church and that they should trust him. Sorry, but that is right out of the Governments clergy response team hand book.

You can find likes and faults with everyone, i wont argue that. But its that statement from Pastor Mike that did it for me. Your more than welcome to like and follow him.

My point was Mike's Church has been accused multiple times on being 501c3 without any proof that it is. I have provided 2 links to videos where he says specifically that his Church is not 501c3.

Yeah, I would stray far away as possible from this guy. And for that matter too, KJV-only churches that are 501c3 are no better than all the other non-KJV churches, b/c they've been leavened.

Please prove his Church is 501c3. Please show me one, just one instance of leaven in ANY of his audios or videos.

We are not better. Your missing the point

Ok, enlighten me, what was your point?

It's your manner of spirit that I rebuke. Humble yourself, and quit promoting men, and preach the gospel of Jesus Christ.

What manner of spirit?

When did I promote Pastor Mike? The only thing I have said in this entire thread that was positive of Pastor Mike was in post #25 "Mike Hoggard is my favorite teacher, his verse by verse study of Revelation is awesome."

All I have done is ask questions, the first of which, back in post #46 was "where did Mike say "blindly follow the government" is still unanswered.

[Psalm 51:17]

Please prove his Church is 501c3. Please show me one, just one instance of leaven in ANY of his audios or videos.

Have you read any of the previous posts? If any church or charity organization files an Articles of Incorporation with their respective state, then they ARE a 501c3 b/c the state has given them their right to exist.

Nothing personal or anything, but you need to research these things on your own instead of taking what everyone says at face value. And yes, I am guilty of this too(where at times I will take everything someone says at face value b/c I can be a bit naive to think that person is 100% trustworthy).

Pro 14:15  The simple believeth every word: but the prudent [man] looketh well to his going.

Pro 1:5  A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:
Pro 1:6  To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings.

Act_17:11  These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Also, if Pastor Mike denies his church being a 501c3, then why did he say there's nothing wrong with a 501c3 church(as long as they're KJV-only)?

[Christian40]

okay so i'm thinking that pastor Mike is 501c3 (to be honest i haven't seen him say that or admit it) but he produces brilliant videos about the KJV Bible, i was listening to a talk about that Holmes murderer 29/7 study and it was amazing how Hoggard put the numerics in it, it is funny and strange that while a person like Hoggard is said to be patriotic and 501c3 that he produces audios and that greatly increase a persons knowledge in the KJV Bible. Does one think that God could use such a person as Hoggard to help people lay up further knowledge about the KJV and current events? i think so

[Kilika]

What manner of spirit?

When did I promote Pastor Mike? The only thing I have said in this entire thread that was positive of Pastor Mike was in post #25 "Mike Hoggard is my favorite teacher,

Now your backpeddling. I've read your posts, ALL of them. You've been promoting these men since you first started posting here. Defending men/Hoggard is exactly what you've been doing in this very thread.

Your posts give you away.

"...be not ye the servants of men"

[Mark]

Please prove his Church is 501c3.

Here is the link that shows the Church is registered non profit.

https://www.sos.mo.gov/BusinessEntity/soskb/Corp.asp?646691

Him being a religious non profit, means he has to file a 501c3, no way around it.

Here is the IRS link for charities and non-profit

http://www.irs.gov/charities/article/0,,id=169727,00.html

so YOU prove he isnt other than him saying so.

[Degruix]

Quote
What manner of spirit?

When did I promote Pastor Mike? The only thing I have said in this entire thread that was positive of Pastor Mike was in post #25 "Mike Hoggard is my favorite teacher,

Now your backpeddling. I've read your posts, ALL of them. You've been promoting these men since you first started posting here. Defending men/Hoggard is exactly what you've been doing in this very thread.

Your posts give you away.

"...be not ye the servants of men"

Accusing me of backpedaling is not an answer to my questions but that is ok.

Quote from: Degruix on August 02, 2012, 03:37:09 pm
Please prove his Church is 501c3.

Here is the link that shows the Church is registered non profit.

https://www.sos.mo.gov/BusinessEntity/soskb/Corp.asp?646691

Him being a religious non profit, means he has to file a 501c3, no way around it.

Here is the IRS link for charities and non-profit

http://www.irs.gov/charities/article/0,,id=169727,00.html

so YOU prove he isnt other than him saying so.

Your first link is a document filed with the State of Missouri listing Bethel Free Will Baptist Church of Festus

Missouri as a non-profit corporation. The emphasis is on State, this document  has nothing to do with the

feds. Your second link is a faq sheet for tax exempt organizations that meet irs 501c3 criteria. This link does

not indicate what it takes to meet those requirements.


I on the other hand have found the actual irs tax code that controls 501c3 status. The link is

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/508.

This is on the Cornell Law school website. The relevant part of the tax code is:

(a)  New organizations must notify Secretary that they are applying for recognition of section 501(c)(3) status
Except as provided in subsection (c), an organization organized after October 9, 1969, shall not be treated as an organization described in section 501 (c)(3)—

The important part is the phrase "Except as provided in subsection (c)".

Subsection c says:

(c)  Exceptions
(1)  Mandatory exceptions
Subsections (a) and (b) shall not apply to—
(A) churches, their integrated auxiliaries, and conventions or associations of churches, or
(B) any organization which is not a private foundation (as defined in section 509 (a)) and the gross receipts of which in each taxable year are normally not more than $5,000.

The important part of this is the phrase "mandatory exceptions" and the word "churches". This means a

church is explicitly exempted from 501c3 status unless the church chooses to not be exempt. So a church

can be tax exempt and non-501c3.


With this information I will take Mike's word for his non-501c3 status.


Thank you for this conversation, it has been very informative.

[Mark]

If it is registered with the STATE as Non-propfit, and being a religous roganization, it automatically gets 501c3 status. So as you can see my delima here as it is kind of hard to get around this. Especially as he IS regestered as non profit, and that church has been registered non profit since the 1970's. So unless he is severly going way out of their way since he took over, they are 501c3.

[Degruix]

If it is registered with the STATE as Non-propfit, and being a religous roganization, it automatically gets 501c3 status.

This is your opinion, not what the tax code says.

So as you can see my delima here as it is kind of hard to get around this.

The only dilemma I see is people making statements and not having facts to back them up.

[Mark]

This is your opinion, not what the tax code says.

Uhm, no its not. That is what the IRS says, on their website. sorry, you dont have to like it, but thats how it is.

The only dilemma I see is people making statements and not having facts to back them up.

Uhm, again, i have backed it with facts.

[Degruix]

Quote
If it is registered with the STATE as Non-propfit, and being a religous roganization, it automatically gets 501c3 status.

Maybe I am just slow, but I did not read that anywhere in the law.

If what you say is true, copy and paste the relevant part in a new post.

[Psalm 51:17]

Maybe I am just slow, but I did not read that anywhere in the law.

If what you say is true, copy and paste the relevant part in a new post.

FYI, I don't know if you've heard of Greg Dixon, but he once was in this web many years ago, and when he got out, he ended up not only losing everything, but the Feds came by sending in the SWAT teams and tearing down the building. Yes, what Dixon did was admirable, and to boot he's warning other pastors to not get into this, but at the same time b/c the state gave him his right to exist, they also had rights to all his church's assets when he wanted to dissolve. Even John Ashcroft labeled his ministry a terrorist organization. Oh yeah...wasn't George W. Bush supposed to be this faithful born-again Christian that would lead morals back to this country?

I had a few emails with him 2 years ago when Scott and others recommended him(Dixon is a very nice guy) - and he gave me more info over how the IRS has gotten more draconian in terms of cracking down on 501c3 churches(ie-they continue to make more laws and regulations against them).

The IRS is linked with alot of the major global banking elite like the IMF, which is linked to to the United Nations...you guys can follow the trail...

Here's Pastor Dixon's web site ministry, he explains all...
http://www.unregisteredbaptistfellowship.com/

[Mark]

Maybe I am just slow, but I did not read that anywhere in the law.

If what you say is true, copy and paste the relevant part in a new post.

well its there on the IRS website. Ive posted it, your gonna have to look it up yourself, and not take my word for it.

[Degruix]

well its there on the IRS website. Ive posted it, your gonna have to look it up yourself, and not take my word for it.

I do not take your word for it. I have already dissected your links and there was nothing relevant on your irs link.

My irs link on the other hand which showed the relevant 501c3 tax law clearly indicates churches are specifically exempted from said 501c3 status unless whoever is in control of said church wants to be under the 501c3 umbrella.


So you can cite imaginary data that only you can see, or you can post pertinent data for everyone to see as I have.

[Mark]

Recognition of Tax-Exempt Status
Automatic Exemption for Churches

Churches that meet the requirements of IRC section
501(c)(3) are automatically considered tax exempt and
are not required to apply for and obtain recognition of
tax-exempt status from the IRS.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1828.pdf

this topic is now done with.

[Kilika]

I agree. Topic locked.

We stand by our assesment of Hoggard, and the IRS.

Go argue elsewhere please.

[Mark]

I’ve been digging into some of Hoggards teachings, and he adds a LOT of pagan and supernatural and defiantly a lot of Masonic teachings in his stuff. I’m really starting to believe that this guy is full 100% disinfo artist. In his vid about Sandy Hook he sits and claims he’s all for the second amendment, and that he has and does carry a concealed weapon. Yet he is all for following the Government.

He is always adding up numbers as if they mean something. And he just gives meanings to those numbers and doesn’t say where the meaning come from. Like 3 means sin. Where is that at? And I would still love to know where all of the money comes from? His church is very tiny.

Found this on a different site, good analysis...

mattfivefour 
Moderator Join Date Jul 2008
Location MidWest
Posts 19,984  Re: Mike Hoggard

The problem with Mike Hoggard is that he preaches so many things right. But has so many other things absolutely wrong. And that is a very dangerous combination. Truth and error mixed usually only result in error. It's kind of like algebra: no matter how large the positive number is and how small the negative number, any positive multiplied by a negative will ALWAYS wind up negative.


I don't have time to go into a whole expose of his teachings, but here are just a couple of points.

He believes you get special revelation from scripture. Not merely knowledge but special revelation of hidden things. And God will make you pay a steep price for it. He does not believe in Bible Commentaries or Study bibles. He says he studies the bible with a calculator in his other hand. Apparently he thinks all of the numbers in the bible are there for a hidden reason and we can calculate them out in order to get hidden knowledge. Interestingly, the number 3 in the Bible that represents God, Hoggard says actually represents sin!

He also manipulates data to achieve his desired goals, just like Harold Camping. Here's one example: He says the number 22 in the bible represents revelation because God wrote the Book of Revelation through John using 22 chapters. Of course, this ignores the fact that the Bible was written with NO chapters. It was a Roman Catholic archbishop, Stephen Langton, who first divided the NT into chapters in the 12th century AD ... more than a thousand years after it was written.


Here's another: Hoggard says that as he read the bible he noticed the word "compass" used. Because a compass is a key image in Masonry, he believed this might be a hidden reference to Masonry. He counted up the number of times the word is used and found it totaled 39 times. 39 is 3 times 13 ... and since 3 and 13 both represent sin and evil in the bible, this confirmed for him that the word compass was a reference to Masonry, that God hid in the Bible. The problem is that while there are 39 references in English, in Greek (in which the NT was written) there are different words in different places, so the total does not add up to 39. The only way his system works is if the bible were given to man in English. And that brings us to his next belief.


He believes that all other bibles other than the KJV are of Satan. I know a very few others agree with him, especially among certain Evangelical and Fellowship Baptist groups. (I wonder what that means for people who do not speak English and have bibles in their own language.) But he extends that to the original manuscripts, too. He says you may only study the bible out of the KJV, because that is the bible God gave to man!!! You are never to go to the original Hebrew or Greek. And if you find a preacher or teacher who explains a verse using the Greek or Hebrew, avoid them.


One last warning. Listen to his sermons, and you will rarely hear him expounding on the literal meaning of Scripture. He spiritualizes everything according to his own interpretations. Therefore Scripture does not necessarily means what it plainly says, but what he interprets it to say. That is a dangerous teacher to sit under!

Incidentally, if you check him out with the Who's Who of Bible Prophecy he does not rate a green apple. He gets only a yellow one. (Frankly, I would have thought red would be more accurate!) Anyway, this man is a master of eisegesis (reading ideas into scripture) rather than exegesis (reading ideas out of scripture). It appears that he chiefly approaches the bible with an idea and looks for evidence to prove he is right. However he is an engaging preacher and an effective communicator. He definitely scratches itching ears.

My advice? Stay clear.

http://www.raptureforums.com/forum/bible-study-q/70043-mike-hoggard.html

[Mark]

he has a teaching where he talks about Atlantis as a real place, and the 10 horns of Daniel are the 10 kings of Atlantis. Does anyone know which teaching this is? I would love to hear it just to confirm what is being said.

But if true, that is 100% new age. There is no Atlantis, never was. Well not in the sence that the new-agers have spun the history of it, to which Hoggard is presenting as true. He does this all the time in his videos and stuff, just adds stuff in and hopes to not get called on it.

http://bibleconundrumsandcontroversy.blogspot.com/2012/03/mike-hoggard-anti-apostasy-teacher-or.html

worth the read...

Hoggard is very worth looking into...

[Psalm 51:17]

Mark, did you get that post above from the Rapture Forums message forum?

The reason why I'm asking is b/c I'm familiar with mattfivefour, one of the moderators of that forum - not that I'm calling him out single handedly, but as a WHOLE the Rapture Ready/Rapture Forums site/message forums is opposition-controlled/disinfo. They are runned by Todd Strandberg and Terry James.

I was a member of both forums for a good while - no, I have no problems with their pre-trib position(I'll admit, I'm starting to buy into it, but will discuss it later). But there are many other aspects where they know how to control and deceive all the members of that forum(and site) - one being that instead of letting everyone have the freedom of calling out the entire Illuminati NWO system as a whole, everyone is pretty much forced to believe the LIE that Christians are commanded to support Republican candidates. Even mattfivefour was leading this charge throughout the 2012 election campaign in terms of blindly supporting Mitt Romney(leading everyone to believe that while Romney is a Mormon, he still has GOP moral and ethical values to preserve the sanctity of life and enforce the laws of the country, saying how Christians would abide by Romans 13 if they vote for Romney).

Uhm...they seem to forget that Obamacare was modeled after Romneycare, which funded abortions. Romney supports gun control, NDAA, banker bailouts, etc, etc. So ultimately, pretty much from what I've observed this election year, posters on both forums that came out to expose Romney and the NWO system ended up getting ganged up on, shouted down, and ultimately banned. So basically it's a sin for Christians to believe in conspiracy theories, but we have to blindly support these back-stabbing GOP candidates?

And pretty much in their political forums, they're always calling out Obama/Democrats - yes, that is all and good, but they're forgetting all the parts over how John Boehner, for example, has endorsed alot of Obama's liberal agendas like Obamacare, raising taxes on the "rich", how more Republicans are getting on the gun control/illegal immigration reform bandwagons, etc. Alot of this has to do with the mods and a few regulars steering the ship this way.

And their Apostasy forums are VERY limited, to say the least - it's very good that they expose the Emergent Church. But that is AS FAR as they go. Nothing about 501c3, calling out other perverted versions(with the exception of the Message bible/T-NIV), Hal Lindsey(they consider him a hero even though he openly endorsed the Pope), David Reagan(even though he endorses Pat Robertson), Jack Van Impe, John MacArthur, Paul Washer, David Jeremiah, etc. Come to think of it, one time I called out 501c3, and was accused of being a conspiracy theorist.

This mattfivefour guy also mocked KJV-onlyists, which I have a problem with as well. He also claims he works for(and I believe owns) a news media company. Aren't the great majority of news media outlets runned by Satan's minions? Just saying. And no, MFF isn't the only one, there's others on there like Chris, Buzzardhut, etc they continually stir up the board with propaganda to get everyone to look at Obama being the LONE enemy.(ie-Buzzardhut says to beware of Obama's created social justice program, but everyone SHOULD know that social justice was created by the Jesuits a long time ago)

With that being said - I only skimmed what he said about Mike Hoggard. He could be right, but at the same time, Hoggard HAS attended conferences with Todd Strandberg, Terry James, Hal Lindsey, etc. Yes, Hoggard is dangerous, as we've documented here. If he is dangerous like MFF says, then why in the world are the Rapture Ready/Forums people attending conferences with him?

Well, Jesus Christ says in I John that we will know it is the last time when there are MANY antichrists.

[Mark]

what he posted is the same stuff I have been picking up from Hoggard myself. I have a bunch more stuff, just havent posted yet.

[Psalm 51:17]

what he posted is the same stuff I have been picking up from Hoggard myself. I have a bunch more stuff, just havent posted yet.

Yeah, that was the point I was getting at - I haven't listened to Hoggard in almost 2 years since he gave that "blindly follow the government" sermon, and the more I think about his presentations he does weekly, they were just TOO mind-blowing for my tastes(especially the numerology part), that I felt something felt wrong about him. Plus when he does his Sunday morning services, he screams over 1/2 of the time to the point where you just can't understand what he's saying. My previous pastor in New Orleans did that quite a bit, and it was over time since I left when I saw the rotten fruit in him(ie-when he would do media interviews, he would rarely, if never mention Jesus Christ, and one time said "dawning of a new day..."). I don't mind at all if a preacher preaches with passion, but screaming is not the fruit of the Spirit, as our speech has to be seasoned with grace and salt.

Overall, when we read our bibles, we let the Holy Spirit teach us, AND Jesus Christ says his yoke is light - having to delve into all of this numerology is a heavy burden, isn't it?

And yeah, for someone that has a tiny church, I wonder where he gets all of those resources to make DVDs, write books, travel to conferences, etc. Sure, he's a KJV-only guy, but at the same time, IF he's part of the occult, then I guess it would be no surprise that he knows ALOT about it.

[Mark]

he goes beyonf KJV, he KJV ONLY, as in its the only true inspired word. He even discounts the original manuscripts.

Hes mixing just too much occult and secret stuff into what he is saying and hoping people dont catch it.

[Christian40]

He is always adding up numbers as if they mean something. And he just gives meanings to those numbers and doesn’t say where the meaning come from. Like 3 means sin. Where is that at?

i know what he would say: Genesis 3 is about sin. There were 3 people on the cross including Jesus. Satan, the Antichrist and False prophet are 3 and sin.

And I would still love to know where all of the money comes from? His church is very tiny.

He says that he is poor and lives in a small house and that he has to pay the few people that work for him. i can only assume he is getting donations from across America and even outside America. On one of the latest teachings he said that he was responsible for paying his workers in other words it seemed he is short of money.

he goes beyond KJV, he KJV ONLY, as in its the only true inspired word. He even discounts the original manuscripts.

well i haven't heard him discount Bibles in other languages, i think he would say that the original manuscripts no longer exist, because he doesn't know Greek or Hebrew he focuses on the English.

I’ve been digging into some of Hoggards teachings, and he adds a LOT of pagan and supernatural and defiantly a lot of Masonic teachings in his stuff. I’m really starting to believe that this guy is full 100% disinfo artist. In his vid about Sandy Hook he sits and claims he’s all for the second amendment, and that he has and does carry a concealed weapon. Yet he is all for following the Government.

i would be really surprised if Hoggard supports Obama since i remember him speaking out against him. I'm not sure that he really does support the federal government.

One last warning. Listen to his sermons, and you will rarely hear him expounding on the literal meaning of Scripture. He spiritualizes everything according to his own interpretations. Therefore Scripture does not necessarily means what it plainly says, but what he interprets it to say. That is a dangerous teacher to sit under!

not true, Hoggard regularly goes into the literal meaning. i would like to know how Hoggard has to be put down, no he isn't perfect but he has alot of good stuff and he professionally focuses on biblical numerology which alot of people dont understand as yet.

[Mark]

i know what he would say: Genesis 3 is about sin. There were 3 people on the cross including Jesus. Satan, the Antichrist and False prophet are 3 and sin.

That makes no sense ay all, and is ascribing an authority that isn't there. The Trinity is made up of 3, so i say 3 is a holy number. Do you see how this works? He does that stuff all the time, and it is occultic.

He says that he is poor and lives in a small house and that he has to pay the few people that work for him. i can only assume he is getting donations from across America and even outside America. On one of the latest teachings he said that he was responsible for paying his workers in other words it seemed he is short of money.

He isnt poor, his suits and ties are expensive, he apparently eats well ans talked about it in the teaching after the sandy hook shooting. I would love to see his house and car, and im betting they sure arent second hand stuff. His church is very small according to the website, yet can fund all of his teachings, travels and show production? Half of his congregation must be millionaires.

well i haven't heard him discount Bibles in other languages, i think he would say that the original manuscripts no longer exist, because he doesn't know Greek or Hebrew he focuses on the English.

That isnt the way i get his KJV Onlyism, nut then again he could change his view, as i have already discovered that he changes his view to support what he wants to say. Like the rapture, supports it one time, is against it another. Wolves wear many masks to hide within the flock

i would be really surprised if Hoggard supports Obama since i remember him speaking out against him. I'm not sure that he really does support the federal government.

not true, Hoggard regularly goes into the literal meaning. i would like to know how Hoggard has to be put down, no he isn't perfect but he has alot of good stuff and he professionally focuses on biblical numerology which alot of people dont understand as yet.

constantly using his form of numerology to ascribe meaning when there isnt one, is not using the literal meaning of the passage. Just start listening to him, and the way he just wanders around, and you will start to see it.

[Kilika]

Yeah, we definitely need to have a discussion on this one! I'll get the thread going...(starting with your last two posts Mark)

Literal versus Spiritual

[Christian40]

He is attracting a bigger and bigger following, especially with people who are fed up with the apostasy in the church and are looking for some good old-fashioned Bible preaching. So what is the problem? The problem is, in the midst of gathering a major audience of Christians who are looking for someone to lead them out of apostasy, and are following him because of the strong stand he takes against apostasy, he is slowly and subtly introducing to them teachings that are not Scriptural. Because they are such little things within his sermons, nobody notices or gives it much thought, or they just let it pass like a blip on the screen, but when added up, it comes to a lot of things that are not correct. I also have concerns about the way he approaches his study of the Scripture, as well as the way he teaches it. I honestly see the beginnings of another Harold Camping in the making given enough time. http://bibleconundrumsandcontroversy.blogspot.com.au/2012/03/mike-hoggard-anti-apostasy-teacher-or.html

You have to be joking to compare Mike Hoggard with Harold Camping.

Pastor Hoggard does the same thing with numbers that he does with these “word” revelations. He draws conclusions about things by adding, or dividing, or doing other mathematical exercises with them, if required. In fact he stated that when he studies the Bible, he keeps the Bible in one hand and a calculator in the other, as numbers are so important. Really? I have never had to sit with a calculator in hand tallying up numbers to understand the Word of God. There are times when I see parallels between numbers, such as the twelve tribes, and the twelve disciples, or forty year wandering in the desert and forty days of the temptation of Christ, but I don't see the need to add, subtract, multiply, or divide them to reveal some secret hidden message or code in God's Word. I'm not saying there might not be some interesting things to learn, but the obsessive way in which he uses numbers to show him what passages mean is where I start seeing a problem. Harold Camping got off on this same tangent. Numbers became more important than simply reading what the Word said. Look where it led him. Hoggard seems to be taking this same route. In fact I question that he is using numbers in a proper way.

It's called Biblical numerology,

Ecc 7:27 Behold, this have I found, saith the preacher, counting one by one, to find out the account:

Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Leviticus 25:52 And if there remain but few years unto the year of jubile, then he shall count with him, and according unto his years shall he give him again the price of his redemption.

There is nothing wrong with studying Biblical numerology and Hoggard is pretty much an expert, so was Bullinger and Dr Ivan Panin. Numbers have meaning in the Bible. Just think of the measurements that the Temple had to go by and the items in the Temple.

And also i believe that when Hoggard mentions "revelations" he is simply meaning something he has learnt from looking closely at the scripture. i think that the article written by Connie http://bibleconundrumsandcontroversy.blogspot.com.au/2012/03/mike-hoggard-anti-apostasy-teacher-or.html doesn't prove anything, he or she agrees with Hoggard and then they disagree where they like. i dont think it is a fair analysis of all of Hoggard's teachings.

Matthew 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

i know what he would say: Genesis 3 is about sin. There were 3 people on the cross including Jesus. Satan, the Antichrist and False prophet are 3 and sin.

That makes no sense ay all, and is ascribing an authority that isn't there. The Trinity is made up of 3, so i say 3 is a holy number. Do you see how this works? He does that stuff all the time, and it is occultic.

umm no it is Biblical numerology

What is the King James Code?

If I had to describe the King James Code in a nutshell, I would do it this way. The King James Bible contains a system of numbers that are consistently linked with words or phrases in the scriptures. It is understood that the Bible can be comprehended on many levels. The more you study the Scriptures and become accustomed to them, the more you understand the Divine symbols of certain passages that you never saw before. These must always come as a product of Divine Revelation. Certain words and phrases take on a whole new meaning, never contradictory to any other passage in the Scriptures. As you study, you begin to see also that numbers seem to have a certain relevance in the Bible. Each number will have its own symbolic meaning. Things associated with completion or perfection will be linked with the number 7. Things associated with the sinfulness of man will be associated with the number 6, and so on.

What I have discovered, or rather, what the Lord has revealed, is that word and phrase occurrences in the King James Bible follow this same pattern. If a word or a phrase is added or omitted, this ruins the pattern. Could it be that this is why God commanded us not to add or take away from His Word? (Deut. 4:2, Rev. 22:18,19)

An example of how this works is found in the phrase "Holy Spirit". This phrase is found exactly 7 times in the King James Bible. This not only reveals the Divine nature of the Holy Spirit, but also reveals to us that the Bible is a very unique Book. It contains the very signature of God himself, for, it would be impossible for man to plan a book, and a system of numbers, in this fashion.

Please read these pages carefully and with an open mind. It may benefit you to acquire some knowledge of the use of numbers in the Bible, but a mastery of the subject is not necessary. For those who are not familiar at all with the usage of Bible numerics, I include a reference guide in this document.

Numbers are one of the few things in this world that can truly reflect the nature of God in several ways. First, numbers are infinite. We will never count the last number, because it does not exist. Not only are they infinite in positive form, but in negative form as well. This perfectly describes a God who is eternal; a God who always was and always shall be.

Numbers are constant. They never change. In this world, languages have changed, people have changed, the world itself is in a constant state of change, but numbers remain the same. 2+2 always equals 4 and always will. There is no way it will change.

Numbers are one of the few things, according to Revelation 21, that will accompany us from this world to the next. They are as eternal and infinite as our Mighty God is.

This is why His Word is a word of numbers. Please read the following carefully. All of this research can be easily replicated using a Bible search program. I recommend using QuickVerse for Windows. It is the program that I used in gathering this information. A copy will cost about $10-$15 dollars. QuickVerse will allow you to search for a word or phrase, and then list exactly how many times that word or phrase is found, and show you how many verses it is found in. Not all Bible search programs will do this. Also, QuickVerse comes with a master list of all the words in the AV, along with the number of times they are found in the text.

As I said earlier, this information came on me rather quick. Although I have made several attempts at proofreading and double-checking the various patterns for accuracy, there may be an occasion where I have made an error. Let me assure you, that any errors in this book are merely the result of human frailty and not sinister manipulation, just to prove a point. http://www.biblebelievers.com/Hoggard_KJV_Code.html

He says that he is poor and lives in a small house and that he has to pay the few people that work for him. i can only assume he is getting donations from across America and even outside America. On one of the latest teachings he said that he was responsible for paying his workers in other words it seemed he is short of money.

He isnt poor, his suits and ties are expensive, he apparently eats well ans talked about it in the teaching after the sandy hook shooting. I would love to see his house and car, and im betting they sure arent second hand stuff. His church is very small according to the website, yet can fund all of his teachings, travels and show production? Half of his congregation must be millionaires.

that is exaggerating, it is amazing how God funds ministries in ways we cant always understand, there is a picture of Hoggard's house on his blog page and it isn't that big, as for what car i haven't seen, i just know that he is well supported.

well i haven't heard him discount Bibles in other languages, i think he would say that the original manuscripts no longer exist, because he doesn't know Greek or Hebrew he focuses on the English.

That isnt the way i get his KJV Onlyism, nut then again he could change his view, as i have already discovered that he changes his view to support what he wants to say. Like the rapture, supports it one time, is against it another. Wolves wear many masks to hide within the flock

he is everything for the rapture, how is he against it?

constantly using his form of numerology to ascribe meaning when there isnt one, is not using the literal meaning of the passage. Just start listening to him, and the way he just wanders around, and you will start to see it.

he does both, it is just that he has an advanced knowledge of Biblical numerology that makes him look a bit different, numbers are important to God and God uses numbers in the Bible to explain things.

[Aussie Micha]

Hi Guys!!!

Yep, I'm a newie so a BIG HELLO and G'DAY 

I have actually been following this forum for awhile now, but I just *had* to join to say that we should *always* remember the fruit that Mike Hoggard has produced...... just like Scott says to do 

I for one can credit him for making the Bible come alive for me. I have been a lukewarm Christian that only ever read her Bible because I felt a duty to God to do so etc...

Since listening to over 20 dvds of his teachings I'm now enjoying the KJV (before I wasn't convinced that it was the *only* right one).

By the way Mike presented it and showed me the numbers I realized you couldn't do that with the other versions.

I know it's not looking good to what he said (I actually will need to listen to it myself first) but remember we are all human and in a sin nature.... we will all make mistakes, say wrong stuff and slip up.

So maybe someone could point it out to him instead of making him look like a false prophet. He might be really shocked that it's gotten this far. Please be gracious.

Blessings,
Aussie Micha 

[Kilika]

G'day! 

And welcome.

"And into whatsoever house ye enter, first say, Peace [be] to this house." Luke 10:5 (KJB)

Well, as you know, we are a small group, but passionate for our Lord Jesus. None of us are perfect indeed, though we be "perfected" in Christ by His Spirit the Holy Ghost.

As you mention, all of us are still subject to the fleshly body we reside in for now. That sin nature of the flesh hasn't gone anywhere, though we are born-again. It's the battle that Paul speak of; flesh against the spirit and the spirit against the flesh. So that means none of us are 100% correct on doctrine. We all still have some learning to do.

And yes, charity being the greatest of these, we should bear with them till we at least make sure we have a full understanding of what a person is trying to teach. At the same time, we should not rely on a man's interpretations, or look to man as your teacher. The Holy Ghost is our teacher, not man. Iron does sharpen iron, but it is still the Spirit within each believer that does the work.

False prophet? We know who the false prophets are by the Holy Ghost in us. The unbelieving? Not a clue what's false or true. They MUST have the Spirit to be able to discern between good and evil.

"But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him." 1 John 2:27 (KJB)

[Psalm 51:17]

Thought I would throw this out here...

Has anyone here watched Fritz Springmeyer's "Bloodlines of the Illuminati" presentation he did at the Bible Prophecy Club years ago?(It's up on youtube) No, I don't endorse everything he says, but it was nonetheless a fascinating expose. One of the things he pointed out was how the CIA(among other NWO entities) have sent out agents et al into the churches masquerading as pastors, and put them under some kind of mind control program. If I remember correctly how he described it, he said that they would have these personalities, albeit subtle, where in a flicker of a moment, they can change from one personality unto another with the CIA mind control program that was put on them.

No, he wasn't talking about your typical Churchianity pastor that went through the Alexandrian brainwashing at some seminary. Nor of your typical love-of-money pastor either.

Personally, I can somewhat attest to what he was saying - in my previous city where I lived, I crossed paths with this pastor of a big SBC Baptist church there that was rather highly esteemed among the evangelical community. Whenever I would see him preach, one moment his speech would be soft and with grace, and the next minute he would be yelling like he was pouring out so much passion. No, this wasn't your typical SBC pastor who had too much caffeine that morning, or tried to show too much (fake)passion. His behavior during these sermons, to say the least, was rather strange, and to boot he knew how to captivate his audiences unto him. Also, he was pretty arrogant, and whenever he would give interviews to the media, he would rarely if never mention Jesus Christ, but mention some New Agey terms(ie-dawning of a new day...).

Pretty much from my few experiences, it seems like pastors of the present day in these big SBC Baptist churches have this strange behavior that mirrors what Springmeyer has talked about.

No, I'm not trying to say Mike Hoggard is one of them(although personally, I find it strange that he can have this yelling behavior on the pulpit every now and then), but just thought I would throw what Springmeyer has exposed out here.

Satan masquerades as an angel of light...