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Can you lose your salvation?

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September 24, 2017, 10:45:16 pm Psalm 51:17 says: The specific rule pertaining to the national anthem is found on pages A62-63 of the league rulebook. It states: “The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem. “During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.”
September 20, 2017, 04:32:32 am Christian40 says: "The most popular Hepatitis B vaccine is nothing short of a witch’s brew including aluminum, formaldehyde, yeast, amino acids, and soy. Aluminum is a known neurotoxin that destroys cellular metabolism and function. Hundreds of studies link to the ravaging effects of aluminum. The other proteins and formaldehyde serve to activate the immune system and open up the blood-brain barrier. This is NOT a good thing."
http://www.naturalnews.com/2017-08-11-new-fda-approved-hepatitis-b-vaccine-found-to-increase-heart-attack-risk-by-700.html
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September 14, 2017, 04:31:26 am Christian40 says: i have thought that i'm reaping from past sins then my life has been impacted in ways from having non believers in my ancestry.
September 11, 2017, 06:59:33 am Psalm 51:17 says: The law of reaping and sowing. It's amazing how God's mercy and longsuffering has hovered over America so long. (ie, the infrastructure is very bad here b/c for many years, they were grossly underspent on. 1st Tim 6:10, the god of materialism has its roots firmly in the West) And remember once upon a time ago when shacking up b/w straight couples drew shock awe?

Exodus 20:5  Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
September 11, 2017, 03:40:40 am Christian40 says: those in america should better repent or things will only get worse
September 08, 2017, 08:03:04 pm Psalm 51:17 says: http://abcnews.go.com/US/wildfires-rage-west-amid-scorching-temperatures/story?id=49677869

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There are currently 78 large wildfires burning in eight western states, including Montana, Idaho, Oregon, Washington and California.

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Author Topic: Can you lose your salvation?  (Read 1765 times)
William
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« on: July 22, 2011, 11:52:29 pm »

From: http://www.bible-knowledge.com/lose-your-salvation/

Note: I don't agree with everything said in here, and would take it with a grain of salt. This has been a question on my mind lately wondering about this as its an important topic and thing to know.

I how found good articles like this defending the "Once saved always saved" argument as well. I lean more towards you can lose it, because the Bible - The Word of God says there shall come a falling away before the "Son of Perdition" or "Antichrist" appears. It also talks about making your election sure as well - Paul said something to the effect: "Brethren make your calling and election sure." (Paraphrasing)

There are so many scriptures and sources you could use. I do not like this guy used the "ESV" instead of the King James Version, but I do believe major truths can be pulled out of those versions just like Scott Johnson even said "He got saved out of a NIV" Bible. Either way take it as you wish - also by the way...IF this guy is right its possible I might not be saved now. If you want to know more message me for details.

Take care.

Can A Christian Lose Their Salvation?

nce saved, always saved? Can a Christian lose their salvation after they have truly accepted Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior?

There is major divided opinion in the Body of Christ right now on this question. Many believe that you cannot lose your salvation, no matter how many bad things you may end up doing in this life. The Bible says that we are “sealed” with the Holy Spirit at the moment of our salvation with the Lord and that nothing can break this seal, no matter how many bad and evil sins a person may commit after getting saved.

Others believe that God will not be mocked, and that you can lose your salvation if you get into some of the heavier and more evil types of sins.

I believe there are several verses in Scripture that really do answer this question, with one verse in particular. After studying these verses very carefully, it is my own personal opinion that a Christian can lose their salvation after having already been saved. However, I do believe that you really have to get into some of the heavier type sins before this will actually happen.

I believe the seal we have with the Holy Spirit is a very strong and powerful seal, but that this seal can be broken if this person with their own free will has chosen to live this life on the darker side. I will go ahead and give you the main verses from Scripture that deal with this possibility.

    You will each have to judge and discern for yourself whether or not you feel these verses are implying that a Christian can lose their salvation.

    For those of you who are really wanting an answer on this issue, I would highly recommend that you study these verses very carefully, and then ask God the Father, through the Holy Spirit, to give you His direct answer on this issue due to the extreme importance of it.

    What follows is just our own personal opinion on this issue. You will each have to get your own answer from the Lord on this issue since there is such divided opinion in the Body right now on this question.


1. A Falling Away

In my opinion, this first verse hits the nail right on the head. Here is the verse, and then I will point out several key phrases showing that it might be possible for a Christian to lose their salvation with the Lord.

“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

For the earth which brings in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.” (Hebrews 6:4-8)

First, notice the specific wording being used to describe what I believe is a saved and born again Christian:

    Those who were once enlightened
    Have tasted the heavenly gift
    Become partakers of the Holy Spirit
    Have tasted the good Word of God


You cannot be a “partaker of the Holy Spirit” unless you are saved and born again. Only Christians receive the Holy Spirit at the moment of salvation with the Lord. Nonbelievers do not have the Holy Spirit living on the inside of them. You can only be a partaker of the Holy Spirit if you already have Him living on the inside of you.

Only a Christian can truly “taste the good Word of God.” Unless you have the Holy Spirit living on the inside you, you can never fully understand the Bible because all of the Bible was really written by God the Father through the Holy Spirit. Much of the Bible has to be spiritually discerned and this is done by and through the Holy Spirit. It is the job of Holy Spirit to teach us all things and to guide us into all truth.

As a result of the Holy Spirit helping you to understand the Bible when you are reading it, you then start to become “enlightened” as the above verse states. You cannot become truly “enlightened” unless you already have the Holy Spirit living on the inside of you, and He is working with you to help you understand the spiritual truths that are in the Bible.

Put it all together – you cannot be truly enlightened, be a partaker of the Holy Spirit, and have the ability to “taste” the Word of God and the powers of the age to come unless you are a born-again Christian. I believe these specific words being used are showing that this verse is specifically talking about Christians.

And then watch what it says next: “For it is impossible … if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance …”

I think the key words in these phrases are “if they fall away.” What is considered a “falling away?” Obviously God the Father will be the final judge on what is considered a falling away from Him.

A good example might be someone who turns completely to the dark side and decides he wants to worship Satan direct as a result of the wealth and power that Satan may be able to give him while he is still living down here on this earth. There have been documented cases of priests and ministers who have literally “sold out” to the devil in exchange for more of the material and lustful pleasures of this life. They have literally become true Satan worshipers. I personally think something like this would qualify as a “falling away”– a deliberate turning away from God to serve His adversary, the Devil.

Other extreme examples would be Christians who have decided to join and live in some type of organized crime, who get into killing and murdering others for their own gain and profit, men who become rapists or serial killers, etc. As you will see in some of the other verses listed below, God will not be mocked. I believe that some of these heavier types of sins can cause a Christian to lose their salvation if they do not get these heavier types of sins confessed and forgiven with the Lord before they die and cross over.

Notice the above verse also says that: “For it is impossible … to renew them again to repentance” if they fall away into the more heavier types of sins. The key word is “impossible” – meaning that God is not going to allow them to come back in after they have probably passed what may be considered some kind of “point of no return”with Him. The Bible tells us that the Spirit of God will not strive with a man forever.

Put all of the above together – and I think that the above verse is telling us that it is definitely possible for a Christian to lose their salvation if the “falling away” is considered to be serious enough and extreme enough in the eyes of God.

2. Sinning Willfully After Receiving the Knowledge of the Truth

This next verse is another real scary verse. The above verse talks about a “falling away” that could cause you to lose your salvation. This next verse goes another step further and specifically talks about “sinning willfully” after we have already received the knowledge of the truth from God. Here it is: “For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.

Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine; I will repay, says the Lord.” And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.” (Hebrews 10:26-31)

Notice the first part of this verse says that if we “sin willfully” after having already received the knowledge of the truth. Again, I believe this wording could be implying that we are talking about Christians.

The second part of this verse seems to confirm that possibility when it talks about trampling Jesus underfoot and insulting the Spirit of grace, which is the Holy Spirit Himself. Then notice it says that “there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins”in direct reference to the statement about sinning willfully after having already received the knowledge of the truth.

I believe the words “no longer remains a sacrifice for sins” is implying a definite loss of salvation if someone has pushed the envelope too far with God the Father.

3. Becoming Entangled Again in the Pollutions of the World

Here is another verse that matches up with the verse mentioned above. It talks about, after having already received the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, the dangers of returning back again to the “pollutions of the world” from which we have just come out of. Here it is: “For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.” (2 Peter 2:20)

Again, I believe this verse is specifically talking about Christians when it talks about escaping the pollutions of this world “through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.” You cannot have true knowledge about Jesus unless you have become saved and born again by accepting Him as your personal Lord and Savior.

Notice this verse specifically states that it would be much worse for you to have become saved and then turn back to your old sinful ways into the pollutions of this world than to never have become saved in the first place.

The key phrase in this verse is “the latter end is worse for them than the beginning.” The word “beginning” is referring back to when we were not saved. If you are not saved, you cannot make it into heaven. What could be worse than never being saved in the first place. However, this verse is going one step further and it is literally telling us that it would be worse for us, after initially getting saved, if we once more return back to the sins that we were operating in before we got saved.

If that is worse than never getting saved in the first place, then I believe this verse is another one telling us that it is possible to lose your salvation after initially getting saved.

4. 22 Specific Sins That Could Keep You Out of Heaven

If some of the above verses are possibly implying that you can lose your salvation – then what are some of the specific sins that could cause you to lose your salvation? These next two verses will give you some of those specific sins.

Are these next two verses talking about Christians or nonbelievers? If you match these two verses up with the ones listed above, then I believe that some of these sins, if being committed by Christians on a regular and frequent basis, could get them into major trouble with the Lord and possibly be endangering their salvation with Him. Here they are:

“Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.” (1 Corinthians 6:9)

“Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:19)

Notice the sin of adultery is specifically mentioned in both verses. Does this mean any Christian who regularly cheats on their spouse may be in danger of losing their salvation? Maybe God is thinking that if you cannot stay faithful and loyal to your spouse, then maybe you will not be able to stay faithful and loyal to Him for all of eternity once you enter into heaven.

Look at what happened to Satan and one third of all the angels. They could not stay faithful and loyal to the Lord for the long run, and as a result, they tried to rebel against Him and were eventually thrown right out of heaven!

The word “sodomite” refers to a man having sexual relations with another man, which is another word for describing the sin of homosexuality. According to Webster’s Dictionary, the word “licentiousness” refers to one who “disregards accepted rules and standards, one who is morally unrestrained, especially in sexual matters.”

There is no doubt that the above two verses are talking about nonbelievers. But is it also talking about Christians? I guess we will all find out once we cross over into heaven and we see who has made it and who has not. But I would not want to be taking any chances with the Lord by wallowing in any of the above sins on any type of regular and frequent basis.

5. Not Everyone Who Calls Jesus “Lord, Lord” Will Make it Into Heaven

This next powerful verse is coming direct from Jesus Himself. He specifically states that not everyone who calls Him “Lord, Lord” is going to make it into heaven, but only those who do the will of God the Father.

The key word in this verse is the word “will” – the will of God the Father. What is the will of God the Father? One of His definite “wills” is that we stay out of serious sin, especially some of the specific sins mentioned in the above two verses.

When Jesus is using the words of those calling Him “Lord, Lord” – is He referring to Christians or nonbelievers? I personally believe that He may be referring to Christians. How can you truly call Jesus “Lord, Lord” unless you have become saved and born again by accepting Him as your “Lord” and Savior.

If Jesus is specifically referring to Christians with this phrase, then this is another verse that is showing that a Christian could possibly lose their salvation. Once you have become saved, and then you go back and start to enter into some of these heavier sin areas – which would be going against the “will” of God the Father – then I believe you could be in danger of losing your own personal salvation with the Lord.

I believe this verse is also telling us that God will not be mocked! You cannot accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior, and then turn around and start to enter into some of these heavier sin areas – and then think you can get away with it and that God will just look the other way.

The sins of adultery and homosexuality are two very scary sins for any Christian to want to engage in with the way some of the above verses are worded. I would not want to be tempting my eternal fate with God the Father by engaging in these two sins, or any of the other sins mentioned in the above two verses.

Here is the verse: “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ (Matthew 7:21)

Notice that Jesus is specifically talking about people who have prophesied and cast out demons in His name. Is Jesus referring direct to Christians? I believe that He is, especially on the second act that these people had been doing – casting demons out of people in His name.

An unbeliever cannot cast demons out of someone because they do not have the legal authority to be able to do so. Demons are cast out of people by the power of the Holy Spirit.

You have to have the Holy Spirit living and operating on the inside of you before you can cast demons out of someone. Only born-again Christians have the Holy Spirit living and operating on the inside of them – unbelievers do not! As a result, unbelievers do not have the power of the Holy Spirit or the legal authority from God the Father to cast demons out of anyone, including themselves if they have been caught in their death grip.

Two Scripture verses will back this up. In Acts 19:13-16 , several Jewish exorcists took it upon themselves to call on the name of Jesus to try and cast demons out of several people. When they tried to cast these demons out in the name of Jesus, one of the evil spirits replied back to him stating that they knew who Jesus and Paul were, but they did not know who he was.

Then the man who had the demon in him jumped on the Jewish exorcists, overpowered them and literally “prevailed” against them. The men then ran out of the house “naked and wounded.” In other words, the Jewish exorcists had no divine power or authority to be trying to take these demons on. And not only were they not able to cast the demons out, but the demons were allowed to physically attack them and were able to drive them right out of the house without a stitch of clothing left on them! And these men were Jewish men, not total unbelievers.

Here is the verse giving us this specific information: “Then some of the itinerant Jewish exorcists took it upon themselves to call the name of the Lord Jesus over those who had evil spirits, saying, “We adjure you by the Jesus whom Paul preaches … And the evil spirit answered and said, “Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are you?” Then the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, overpowered them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.” (Acts 19:13-16)

Notice in the first verse listed above that Jesus is not contesting that these people really were casting demons out of people in His name. I believe Jesus is directly acknowledging that these people really were casting demons out in His name. And if Jesus is acknowledging this fact – then these people have to be born-again Christians, because only born-again Christians have the power of the Holy Spirit operating on the inside of them to be able to cast demons out of anyone.

I have heard some scholars argue that the people Jesus is referring to in this verse were unbelievers, not saved Christians. These unbelievers were then casting demons out of people and prophesying in His name as a direct result of operating under some kind of demonic influence or possession. In other words, they were all doing this operating under the power of a demonic spirit rather than the power of the Holy Spirit. However, the second verse stated above is telling us that unbelievers cannot cast demons out of people, even if they are operating under some kind of demonic influence and power.

Another very powerful verse to help back up the revelation that demons are not going to be casting out other demons in a person is found in Mark 3:20-30 . In this verse, the Scribes are accusing Jesus of casting demons out of people by Beelzebub, the ruler of demons.

Jesus then responds back stating that Satan is not going to be casting out himself and that a kingdom will not be be able to stand if it becomes divided against itself. In other words, not even Satan or one of his demons are going to try and cast out other demons in a person, as they would just be defeating their own purposes in trying to do so.

If Satan or one of demons are not going to be casting demons out of anyone, and if unbelievers do not have the power and authority to be able to cast out demons – then the people Jesus is referring to in this first verse have to be born-again Christians, not unbelievers.

And then notice what Jesus says next – that He will tell them to depart from Him and that He never knew them because they “practice lawlessness.” The keys words as to why they may lose their salvation in Him is due to the fact that they were “practicing” lawlessness. The word “practice” means someone who is deliberately, intentionally, and willfully breaking some of God’s basic laws and commandments on some kind of a regular basis. It is someone who is doing this on a regular and consistent basis, not someone who is just occasionally slipping up.

Again, I believe Jesus is giving us a major clue in this verse in that He is really talking about Christians, not unbelievers. And if He is, then this verse is more proof that a Christian can lose their salvation if they push the envelope too far and too long with the Lord, with no intentions of ever pulling out of their sinful behaviors, and no remorse for doing it in the first place.

6. A Sin Leading to Death

This next verse is very interesting. It talks about a sin that could lead to death and a sin that will not lead to death. I believe the word “death” could be referring to the deaths of our souls once we die and cross cover, which would mean going straight to hell when we die. Again, is this verse referring to Christians? If it is, then it is definitely delineating between certain types of sins. It is implying that some sins are obviously worse than others. Some of these sins could cause us to lose our salvation and other types of sins will not. Here is the verse:

“There is a sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.” (1 John 5:16-17)

God will obviously be the final judge on what sins could lead to death and which ones will not. But again, as a Christian, I would not want to be tempting my eternal fate with God the Father by engaging in some of the heavier sins mentioned in the above verses, thinking that He will look the other way just because we got saved earlier on in our lives.

7. Fallen From Grace

The Bible specifically tells us that we are “saved by grace.” However, this next verse specifically says that we can “fall from grace.” If you put both of these phrases right next to one another, then I believe they could be telling us that a Christian could lose their salvation.

I believe the words “fallen from grace” means exactly what it is saying. If we have been “saved by grace” – then we can also “fall from that same saving grace.” This might be another powerful verse from the Lord showing us that we can lose our salvation with Him.

Notice also in the first part of this verse where it talks about becoming “estranged from Christ.” If you put these three words right next to the words “fallen from grace” – and they are all in the same verse – then once again I believe the implication may really be there that you can lose your salvation, and that another phrase to describe losing your salvation with the Lord is “falling from grace” – falling from the saving grace which you initially got saved in the first place!

Here is the verse:

“You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.” (Galatians 5:4)

Put this verse together with all of the other ones mentioned above – and the Scriptural evidence may really be there that a Christian could possibly lose their salvation if they try and push the envelope to far with God the Father by falling into and engaging in some of the heavier type sins as described above.

8. Having Your Name “Blotted Out” From the Book of Life

I will leave with you with one very scary, intense verse from the Bible. This verse is coming direct from Jesus Himself from the Book of Revelation.

“He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not BLOT OUT his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.” (Revelation 3:5)

The Book of Life is a Book that has every single saved and born-again believer recorded in it. Once you accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior, your name is then written and recorded in this Book.

But notice what Jesus says in reference to this specific Book. He specifically says that he who “overcomes” will not have his name “blotted out” from this Book. The word “blot” means “to rub or wipe out, to erase or get rid of.” The fact that Jesus is telling us that our names can literally be blotted out from this Book is just more proof that we can possibly lose our salvation with Him. If your name could not be blotted out from this Book, then Jesus would have never made this specific statement in the first place. But since He did, I believe this is another powerful Scripture verse that is showing us that we can lose our salvation in Him.

Also notice the specific word that Jesus is using to tie in this possibility – the word “overcomes.” What is it that Jesus wants us to overcome? One of the things that He definitely wants us to overcome is the temptation to fall and enter into some of these heavier sin areas. The Bible tells us that we must “endure” temptation.

To endure a temptation means you do not give into it, you do not cross the line – but if by chance you do fall into a specific temptation, to immediately pull out of it as soon as you can. If you do not, and you do not overcome and pull out of this temptation within the time span that God is giving you to pull out of it, then your name could be blotted out from His Book of Life for all of eternity!

The other thing to pick up with the specific wording that Jesus is using in this verse is that once He blots out your name from His Book of Life – it will be for all of eternity. There will be no second chance to get back in once you have been officially erased from His Book, just like the first verse I listed at the beginning of this article is telling us.

There is no other indication in this verse, or any other verses in the Bible, that this blotting out of your name can be reversed or rescinded. The tone and straight forward way this verse is being worded is all showing us that not only can a person’s name be actually blotted out from this Book, but that once it is, it will be for all of eternity.

Again, if this was not an actual possibility, then Jesus would have never worded this verse the way He did. But the fact that He is specifically using the words of having your own personal name blotted out from His Book of Life is all showing us that this is a definite possibility if we have gone too far and wallowed too long in a heavier sin area.

Conclusion

You will each have to come to your own conclusions as to whether or not you feel a Christian can lose their salvation with the way all of the above verses are worded. I personally believe that all of the above verses mean exactly what they are saying.

If you put all of the above verses together and right next to one another like you would pieces to a jigsaw puzzle, then I believe God the Father is giving us major insight and revelation that a Christian can lose their salvation if he “falls away,” if he “falls from grace,” if he becomes “estranged from Christ,” if he gets involved in a “sin that leads to death,” if he goes against the “will” of God the Father, if he returns once again to the “pollutions of the world” and if he “sins willfully after having received the knowledge of the truth” that is contained in both God and Jesus.

I personally believe that all of the above verses, and specifically some of the key phrases mentioned in these verses, are simply way too much Scriptural evidence all showing that it is possible for a Christian to lose their salvation with the Lord.

God and His Word will not be mocked. He will not put up with some of His own falling into some of these heavier sin areas, and then think that He will turn a blind eye to their sins, while all the while condoning their sinful activities thinking that the Blood of Jesus will keep them covered till the day they die.

I am afraid some Christians, who are living in some of these heavier sin areas on a regular and frequent basis with no intentions of trying to pull out of them, are going to be in for a very big surprise once they die and cross over and have to meet the Lord for their own personal final judgment.

Again, it would be our strong recommendation that you go direct to God the Father in prayer and ask Him to show you what the real truth is on this matter. All of the above are just our thoughts and opinions on this very controversial issue. For the record, I hope that I am really wrong on my assessment on the above Scripture verses, as I would never want anyone to lose their salvation in the Lord.
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« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2011, 12:52:59 am »

This is a good discussion - no, I don't think you can lose your salvation, but FORSAKING IT is more like it, IMHO. I once knew this pastor in my previous city who seemed grounded in the word pretty well. However, over time when the Emergents began to hijack churches, especially in that area, he himself started yoking with the Emergent philosophies(imho, largely b/c the questionable people surrounding him, a couple or so whom have a big say in the SBC). In his blogs over the last decade, he's admitted to be indebted to Rick Warren, has praised Rob Bell for calling Hell a heresy, has said good things about Tony Compolo, etc.

Again, no, you can't lose your salvation, but at the same time, when you yoke yourselves with this pagan stuff like contempletive prayer(which the Emergent Church is pushing), you'll only put yourself to sleep. When Paul talked about the falling away, he couldn't have stressed it enough.

And speaking of the end times falling away - yes, demonic attacks seem to be increasing and increasing. I had some big ones earlier today(and lost out on). Embarrassed
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« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2011, 02:04:20 am »

I'd agree that you can lose it - but - I'm starting to laugh right now because there is this HUGE thread on this topic at PPF and I'm sure many of you here are or were as involved in that thread as I.


It's a very interesting question - and I agree with much of the scriptural conclusions you posted.

There are many scriptures that endorse your feelings. Matt. 10:22; 24:12, 13; Mark 13:13
All talk about being saved if you stay faithful till the end.

“For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end.”—Heb. 3:14, AV.

Evidently the apostle Paul, who surely was a “saved” Christian, believed that even he could be “disqualified” from the race. Yet as long as he continued to ‘run that he might obtain’ the prize, thus remaining in the race, salvation was assured.

1 Cor. 9:24-27, RSV --

24 Know you not that they that run in the race, all run indeed, but one receiveth the prize ? So run that you may obtain.

25 And every one that striveth for the mastery, refraineth himself from all things: and they indeed that they may receive a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible one.

26 I therefore so run, not as at an uncertainty: I so fight, not as one beating the air:

27 But I chastise my body, and bring it into subjection: lest perhaps, when I have preached to others, I myself should become a castaway.

If "backsliding" were impossible, would he have told the congregation at Ephesus to beware of wolves entering the congregation? What would be the point of any scripture that warns you against losing something you can't lose?

I read your post -- I don't know if anyone else will hear what you are saying but I did and I agree with you.
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« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2011, 02:34:03 am »

Quote
I'm starting to laugh right now because there is this HUGE thread on this topic at PPF and I'm sure many of you here are or were as involved in that thread as I.

Yes, in fact I was the one that started that thread!  Wink

And my position remains the same; a Christian cannot lose their salvation.
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« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2011, 04:54:38 am »

And less not forget that those who the Lord loveth he chaseth and chastiseth.

I myself was one of those "cast aways" and "didn't hold my confidence steadfast to the end" kind of guys after I got saved in 2006, up to 2009. Otherwise, I wouldn't be on this message forum. Otherwise, the King James Bible wouldn't even exist in my own mind. Otherwise, I wouldn't be shown all the signs that the final act of bible prophecy is very near at the door. I can go on and on. Etc, etc.

It's alot like these teleevangelists and wolves in sheep's clothing you see on the airwaves like Crefro Dollar and Benny Hinn - if they were really decent Christians, then the Lord would be chasing after them for all the wickedness they've fallen into. Look at David, Solomon and Jonah in the bible - when they sinned and rebelled, they fell from grace.

Edit: Pt being that I think that's the difference there between a true born again believer and a false teacher - the true born again believer will fall from grace when he gets himself entangled of the world and starts to backslide, while the false pastor or whatever will continue in prosperity no matter how much wrong he does.

No, I'm not talking about the national level guys. It would be a good idea too to check out the local guys in your city as well. For example, my previous pastor at my church in my previous city seemed to be a very godly man. However, he just seemed to do some very questionable things(ie-during the sermons, he would subtlely tell everyone to give, and then send other staff members to go around the Sun schools to give, there were times he wouldn't even mention Jesus's name in radio interviews and interfaith prayer events, etc), but en yet, he continued to prosper with the big wigs like the Seminary President around him propping him up.

Ultimately, when you're in God's family, he will chastise and discipline you like his own sons and daughters, while the wicked will prosper for a time being while they're on this earth b/c their eternal punishment in the lake of fire is ahead of them.
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« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2011, 02:40:59 pm »

Does God spew unsaved out of His mouth?
Rev_3:16  So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.


Why would one work out their salvation with fear and trembling? Note, it is not stating work for their salvation.
Php_2:12  Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
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« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2011, 02:32:33 am »

Yes, in fact I was the one that started that thread!  Wink

And my position remains the same; a Christian cannot lose their salvation.

Oh yeah, it was you indeed Smiley
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« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2011, 05:05:06 am »

John 10:
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one.

Hebrews 13:
5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

Quote
If "backsliding" were impossible, would he have told the congregation at Ephesus to beware of wolves entering the congregation? What would be the point of any scripture that warns you against losing something you can't lose?

The wolves are not saved people, they aren't sheep.
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« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2011, 01:59:52 pm »

John 10:
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one.

Hebrews 13:
5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

Heb. 3:14
14 For we actually become partakers of the Christ only if we make fast our hold on the confidence we had at the beginning firm to the end,


Those are very nice scriptures but really don't deal with the whole story plucked out like that - As Jesus will not forsake anyone unless they forsake him. It's pretty obvious by the scriptures that even the apostles were afraid of backsliding and warned against it many many times. Why would they do that if you couldn't lose salvation? People back then would have looked at them like they were nuts for even mentioning it. No, but that's not how their message was received in the Congregations.

Jesus himself said "he that endures till the end" (possibly even to the death) is the one he saves.
Matt. 10:22; 24:12, 13; Mark 13:13 --

There actually would be no point in the law of Christ or of any God's laws if you are saved no matter what you do. After all God himself says "the soul that is sinning will surely die". The purpose of cleansing the earth is to get rid of those sinning not to make a way for sinners to continue sinning.

Of course that doesn't mean you have to die nor will everyone but it does mean just because you have the chance for eternal life you automatically receive it because you simply believe in Jesus. I realize the scripture that people think "entitles" them to this however, it doesn't in any way exclude them from these other scriptures that state other wise - including ones Jesus himself said in Matthew. He's not contradicting himself, but better telling those that would follow him that if they do indeed follow "every utterance from his mouth" they will be able to obtain the gift of everlasting life.


Quote
The wolves are not saved people, they aren't sheep.

Yet Jesus said when he was talking to the apostles not to look down on them because MANY of them (the apostles) were once as they were (Wolves). Take Paul himself -- actually was there and HELPED in the mob murder of Stephen.

And looking from the other direction Paul told the disciples of Christ that they should be on guard against apostasy -- those leaving Christs fold and returning to teach apostasy to the Congregations and stumble or mislead those brothers - there by costing them their lives. That was a warning to you also...
That is the point...

Surely Paul was a saved Christian? Yet Paul was the one that gave the illustration of running a race 1 Cor. 9:24-27, and believed that even he could be “disqualified” from the race. As he pointed out.

Yet as long as he continued to ‘run that he might obtain’ the prize, thus remaining in the race, salvation was assured. This is why Christians who remain in the race can be said to ‘have everlasting life.’ But if they should ever quit the race, they are “disqualified,” losing their hold on everlasting life.

Paul followed up his remarks on the Christian’s race by cautioning about the danger of overconfidence.
1 Cor. 10:1-12.

What would be the point of stressing any of this at all - if once saved always saved?
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« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2011, 04:10:20 am »

Study at your leisure!... Wink

http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=141557.0
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« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2011, 04:16:53 am »

You CANNOT lose your salvation!

This article is excellent:

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Believer's%20Corner/eternal_security.htm
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« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2012, 05:57:51 pm »

37   All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 
38   For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 
39   And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 
40   And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:37-40 (KJB)
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« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2012, 11:28:16 pm »

When I started reading the KJV 2.5 years ago, I WILL admit that I was somewhat of a "works-based" guy. I set my own rules over how long I should pray on my knees per day, how long I should read my bible per day, and then other nonsense like I had to really beat myself up if I happened by chance to lust at a beautiful woman even for a second(among other "sins" I would really beat myself up over).

However, through my experiences these 2.5 years, if you cross paths with anyone that does everything they can to debunk "once saved, always saved", PLEASE avoid them at all costs. Remember Ed Watson went WAY overboard in trying to call out this heresy(he preached for WEEKS on this). And on PPF, it seems like the majority of "Christians" there support this "you CAN lose your salvation" heresy.

What IS the proper term for "once saved, always saved"? It SHOULD be ETERNAL SECURITY! *sigh* Amazes me how people can be destroyed for a lack of knowledge.

Of course, people can fall from grace, but didn't people in the bible like Peter and David do JUST THAT? Didn't the Lord bring them back up?

Ultimately, if you are saved, then you have the Holy Spirit indwelling in you. If you have the Holy Spirit indwelling in you, then the HS will guide you in your understanding of scripture. If you have the Holy Spirit indwelling in you, the Lord will will remind you of scripture all day(assuming you read and study his word consistently). If you have the Holy Spirit indwelling in you, he will chaseth you and chastiseth you when you go wrong, b/c you are his sons. If you have the Holy Spirit indwelling in you, does this mean you will walk in sinless perfection? NO, HOWEVER, when you DO go wrong, the Lord will chastiseth you and give you a spanking, but He will NOT forsake you.

I mean I can't tell you how many times I would deep down inside want to get in that "pigpen" in my old ways, but the Lord would keep nudging me with scripture. This is how patient and merciful the Lord is b/c he KNOWS there's no good thing dwelling in our flesh.

As for what I tried to do that I described in the 1st paragraph - it ended up WEARING ME OUT. If anyone, including myself, tries to go by the rules of their flesh, even SLIGHTLY, a major burnout potential could be right around the corner. We're supposed to have LIBERTY in Christ. We're supposed to enter into his REST. Jesus Christ's yoke is LIGHT and we must enter into this and learn of him.
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« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2012, 03:31:59 am »

Well said BA.

As for "works based", I personally consider any religion outside of Christianity as works-based, and false. All false religions are based on works of the flesh. So anything not of Christ is of works and not faith.
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« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2012, 12:33:14 pm »

While we're on this subject...

Concerning Churchianity and their "alter calls" they do after the pastors respective sermons...for the most part(at least with my experiences), the pastors would RARELY preach the blood atonement, Jesus dying on the CROSS for our sins, and resurrected 3 days later to be at the right hand throne of God.

Ultimately, they can do these "alter calls" all they want, but if the pastors aren't preaching the blood atonement and what is true salvation in their sermons, does anyone really think these converts at these alter calls are REALLY SAVED? Basically, they go up there, and pretty much the pastor and deacons will just hug them and give them a pat on the back. It's as if we're witnessing a high school graduation ceremony of kids finally getting those "diplomas" after a "rough" 4 years, and the overall message is "WHEW! THAT'S IT! EVERYTHING'S PEACHES AND CREAM!".

Yes, believe it or not, they don't preach alot of heresy when they have specific passages they preach about in their sermons, HOWEVER, when the blood atonement and true salvation of what Jesus did in the cross is OMITTED, this is a HUGE piece of the puzzle that gets omitted.

I mean getting saved is NOT going up to some alter call and getting into contact with the CEO of the church building...err...the pastor, and having a little sinner's prayer with him up there. Don't you have to believe on the name of Jesus Christ, his blood atonement on the cross, and his resurrection FIRST?

Yeah, with all these "once saved, always saved" debates that go on adnaseum, I think people end up missing the point that in today's corrupt church system, false messages end up getting preached to the lost time and time and time again.

Personally, just to add to this - I was actually baptized when I was 9 years old at my church back then. Basically, the pastor thought I was saved, gave me the benefit of the doubt there, and there I was getting immersed into the water by him. Over a 100 years ago, evangelists like DL Moody would TALK with people for 30 minutes after the sermon(those who wanted to get saved). No, it wasn't like Moody was trying to take dominion over them, but Moody DID get it when it came to salvation and the true gospel. He didn't do these alter calls nonsense. I believe Sam Adams(whom we've discussed in other threads, one of Scott's friends) does the same thing at his church.
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« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2012, 03:33:46 pm »

"And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?" Luke 6:39 (KJB)

"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." Mark 16:16 (KJB)

"How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?" Romans 10:14 (KJB)

5   But now I go my way to him that sent me; and none of you asketh me, Whither goest thou? 
6   But because I have said these things unto you, sorrow hath filled your heart. 
7   Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 
8   And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 
9   Of sin, because they believe not on me; 
10   Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; 
11   Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. 
12   I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. 
13   Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 
14   He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you. 
15   All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you. 
John 16:5-15 (KJB)
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« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2012, 10:02:58 am »

Don't want to beat this on the head too much, however, something occured to me over this Prodigal's son passage(the one where one son took his inheritance and wasted it, only to come to repentence at the end, and his loving father welcomed him in open arms).

For the most part, in recent years, the typical Churchianity pastor will end up twisting this a TAD bit to where they'll say..."But keep in mind that this son has lost his inheritance share and won't get it when his father dies", "We're going to have to live with the consequences", etc, etc. I remember Charles Stanley said this way back in 2003(I don't want to get into a Stanley expose here, but I WILL say that over time, he's been deceived and hooklined into false Churchianity doctrines, as well as the wrong crowd, as his time has gone on with his ministry). And one seminary president a couple of years ago preached about "living with the consequences".

Anyhow, the more they get into this nonsense I mentioned above, the more they MISS the ENTIRE point of this passage - DESPITE ALL the wrong this son did, and despite all the time he stole and wasted his entire inheritance, when he came to repentence, his loving father was MORE than gracious and merciful to forgive him and welcome him with open arms. It was as if his father ran out of the house and met his repentent son WAY before his son reached the house.

Ultimately, what Churchianity doesn't realize is that our Father in heaven has many mansions prepared for us when we leave this earth. And it also goes to show where Churchianity's heart is REALLY at...treasures in this EARTH, and NOT heaven with this mentality.(ie-with this mentality and this slightly false message getting out, it's only going to discourage the lost to get saved)

Are there consequences for our poor decisions and actions sometimes? Sure, however, does this mean our Father will forsake us? Absolutely not!
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« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2012, 03:36:07 am »

That is a good way to put it.

The son repented of his actions and was humble with humility and then went back to the Father and the Father welcomed him home. Well i heard some preacher say that you cant lose your salvation but you can lose your fellowship with God. When the son was gone far away there was no communication between the son and Father. The people didn't have telephones and email back then. So the fellowship was lost. The son had chosen to leave to live like the world. Then when he left the world wasted he went to the Father. So in the Prodigal Son parable it is about the Christian living like worldly people too.
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« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2012, 11:46:45 am »

OK, I have another question for you guys...

I won't go into all the "gory" details here, however, yesterday, I had somewhat of a backslide(ignored my bible, was mad at something, then got into something I shouldn't have). This pretty much lasted all day - while I SHOULD have been praying for our brethren, it was as if I was "worshipping other gods"(no, I wasn't into witchcraft or anything).

Anyhow, it came to a point late last night where I just felt INCREDIBLY wretched and disgusted by what I did, and begged the Lord for forgiveness. And the next thing I know, one minute I thought the Lord was going to forsake me, BUT...the next minute I found myself researching some crucial NWO stuff(everyone needs to know) over tracking devices in cell phones like GPS, smartphones, iPhones, etc. I know it's been posted here in detail, Scott has talked alot about it, but somehow, I'll admit I've been rather willfully ignorant when it comes to this issue. And it was the LORD'S DOING here, it WASN'T me that lead me to do this, BUT the Lord COMPLETELY.

Has anyone here been through this similar situation? Where you've backslid for almost a day, been stubborn, hard-hearted, rebellious, etc, only for the Lord to bring you back when all is said and done when you repent? I mean I thought the Lord, as part of his disciplining on me, would put me in a corner and have me not do anything for awhile(like you see teachers do to bad kids in school), but it was his grace and mercy working very big after I asked for forgiveness.(and for that matter too, he revealed to me that I'm working a bit too hard and trying a bit too hard in some areas)
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« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2012, 02:02:49 pm »

I think we all experience that kind of thing. But we have the Spirit within us as believers, so while we may wander from time to time, we all are brought back to the fold by the Spirit.

"go, and sin no more"
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« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2012, 06:13:37 pm »

Also, BEWARE of some of these "daily devotionals" like Our Daily Bread that are VERY subtle.

Someone told me the other day how they read one of the devotionals that day where the writer said he decided to use cruise control on his car to drive b/c if he doesn't, it means he has to pay more attention to the speed he's driving(as abiding by speed limit laws), and ultimately, he's worrying about it, meaning he's sinning and not serving the Lord.

I mean does this sound CRAZY or what Huh I got news for this writer...if you break ONE law of all of God's commandments, you breaketh, albeit SINNETH AGAINST all of them! So yah, if you happen to have a lustful thought(which I'm sure you do), then you certainly have the WORRYING sin that you were warning about when it comes to not putting your car on cruise control! Shocked

Ultimately, be on guard against these VERY SUBTLE deceptions they put out in "daily devotionals" - as you can see, they put so much emphasis on trying to eliminate the worrying sin, that they just missed the boat completely over what Jesus Christ did on the cross for our sins.
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« Reply #21 on: February 28, 2012, 07:57:36 pm »

1Pe 3:18  For Christ also hath once suffered for sins

Covers all of that, unless your a catholic, than you have to have pocket priest every where you go in case you sin since your last confessional.
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« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2012, 09:35:07 pm »

Has anyone here been through this similar situation?

Constantly. There's nothing good in there that I'll ever be able to take credit for. Sometimes need to remember the grace that He had for me long before I knew I was doing anything wrong.
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« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2012, 02:43:33 am »

What about if as a Christian you dont forgive someone of their sins before you die? I've heard preachers say that there are "Christian" people in hell because they didn't forgive someone?

Matthew 6:
14 For if ye FORGIVE men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also FORGIVE you:
15 But if ye FORGIVE not men their trespasses, neither will your Father FORGIVE your trespasses.

Mark 11:
25 And when ye stand praying, FORGIVE, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may FORGIVE you your trespasses.
26 But if ye do not FORGIVE, neither will your Father which is in heaven FORGIVE your trespasses.

Luke 6:
37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: FORGIVE, and ye shall be forgiven:

But if you have the Holy Spirit inside of you, He will make you forgive that person (the offender). Right? And one cannot lose their salvation.
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« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2012, 02:48:16 am »

Also, BEWARE of some of these "daily devotionals" like Our Daily Bread that are VERY subtle.

Someone told me the other day how they read one of the devotionals that day where the writer said he decided to use cruise control on his car to drive b/c if he doesn't, it means he has to pay more attention to the speed he's driving(as abiding by speed limit laws), and ultimately, he's worrying about it, meaning he's sinning and not serving the Lord.

I mean does this sound CRAZY or what Huh I got news for this writer...if you break ONE law of all of God's commandments, you breaketh, albeit SINNETH AGAINST all of them! So yah, if you happen to have a lu****l thought(which I'm sure you do), then you certainly have the WORRYING sin that you were warning about when it comes to not putting your car on cruise control! Shocked

Ultimately, be on guard against these VERY SUBTLE deceptions they put out in "daily devotionals" - as you can see, they put so much emphasis on trying to eliminate the worrying sin, that they just missed the boat completely over what Jesus Christ did on the cross for our sins.

I have heard that whatever is not of faith is sin, and that not doing something that you know you should do is sin too. Plus all worry is sin because it is not trusting or faith in the Lord. Thank God that my sins are covered by the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ!

Our Daily Bread uses Modern Bible Versions and is somehow Catholic?
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« Reply #25 on: March 01, 2012, 08:26:35 am »

I have heard that whatever is not of faith is sin, and that not doing something that you know you should do is sin too. Plus all worry is sin because it is not trusting or faith in the Lord. Thank God that my sins are covered by the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ!

Our Daily Bread uses Modern Bible Versions and is somehow Catholic?

Phillip Yancey is one of the managing editors - I've read one of his books a few years ago, he supports the homosexual agenda(within church walls, that is). I also saw the credentials of all the other writers(many of them), they don't look too rosey, to say the least.
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« Reply #26 on: March 01, 2012, 08:30:23 am »

What about if as a Christian you dont forgive someone of their sins before you die? I've heard preachers say that there are "Christian" people in hell because they didn't forgive someone?

Matthew 6:
14 For if ye FORGIVE men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also FORGIVE you:
15 But if ye FORGIVE not men their trespasses, neither will your Father FORGIVE your trespasses.

Mark 11:
25 And when ye stand praying, FORGIVE, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may FORGIVE you your trespasses.
26 But if ye do not FORGIVE, neither will your Father which is in heaven FORGIVE your trespasses.

Luke 6:
37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: FORGIVE, and ye shall be forgiven:

But if you have the Holy Spirit inside of you, He will make you forgive that person (the offender). Right? And one cannot lose their salvation.

Yes, exactly - there have been times when I just did not want to forgive the other person, but at the same time the Holy Spirit inside of me just kept nudging me to DO SO, and calmed down my anger et al inside of me.

I think the entire big picture here is that when we are saved, Jesus's blood COVERS our sin - blessed is he who's sins are covered. This is the big message that the modern-day church(and false prophets for that matter too) have missed greatly. They talk about this sin, that sin, this sin, that sin, etc. Again, if you commit one sin, you commit them all. Only Jesus's blood can cover them all!
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« Reply #27 on: March 01, 2012, 11:20:47 am »

This is a good discussion - no, I don't think you can lose your salvation, but FORSAKING IT is more like it, IMHO.
I wonder if there is a difference between losing salvation and returning to the world.

We are not saved by works; neither can we work at losing our salvation.
If we sin, we are chastened, we have an advocate, we have the throne of grace.

We are saved by faith in Christ alone; but, can we give up that faith, can we deny the faith, can we turn our backs on Christ and return to the world; ie. apostacy, falling away?
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« Reply #28 on: March 01, 2012, 11:41:32 am »

I wonder if there is a difference between losing salvation and returning to the world.

We are not saved by works; neither can we work at losing our salvation.
If we sin, we are chastened, we have an advocate, we have the throne of grace.

We are saved by faith in Christ alone; but, can we give up that faith, can we deny the faith, can we turn our backs on Christ and return to the world; ie. apostacy, falling away?

Well, thought I would give a testimony concerning myself here recently on something...

Other than have a temp job 2 years ago(which was nothing more than min wage for 3.5 months), it's been almost 4 years since I've been employed, and have had a hard time finding anything, much less getting many calls for interviews. Recently, they built a railway transit system in the metroplex where you pretty much can get anywhere, which made me want to expand my opportunities in looking for employment in the entire metroplex over the last week. However, results have been the same. Even the couple of job recruiters I tried to call didn't call me back(except for one, but the position was TOO way out in the metroplex).

OK, what's the point of all of this? I will be honest with you guys - if these people had called me back and hired me, I feel I could have very well ended up denied the faith and returned to the world. No, I am NOT saying that we as Christians should just not work at all and be lazy bums(other than reading our bibles and worshipping, that is), however, on my end, I am just being honest. I feel the Lord is calling me OUT of this workforce world(at least for now). Why? I don't know(although you can't deny that the signs of the end times are really nearing the door now). And to boot, I'm finding out the last couple of days that getting around the metroplex via the new railway transit system isn't nearly as easy as I thought it would be.(ie-takes over an hour to get to Dallas from where I am, and other parts of the plex you have to change lines who knows how many times)

And something else wanted to share here as well - it was in the Fall of 2009 when a job recruiter called me back, and it appeared I had the position I was enquiring about in the bag, but out of the blue, my phone just hung up(had no idea, it wasn't like I pressed anything on the phone). Had a hard time getting back to them, and then ultimately it was given to someone else. I know for sure now that it was the Lord's doing, and I would have likely "returned to this present world", b/c I was a very baby KJV believer at the time.

Ultimately, I can't speak for everyone that's in a similar situation as me, but as you can see, the Lord PRESERVES HIS OWN. Love the Lord with all your heart, soul mind, and strength, and he WILL guide you in the paths of righteousness, and WILL be like a lamp unto thy feet. I have no doubts now that he is protecting me from entering into the depths of this world. In the book of John, Jesus promises that he will KEEP YOU FROM EVIL.

As for the "falling away"? To be frank, while only God knows the hearts and minds of people, less not forget that the modern-day church(buildings) are so corrupt, that they don't even get out the correct message on the pulpits. I really wonder sometimes if anyone that goes up to those alter calls gets saved anymore. And look how many wolves have infiltrated these buildings largely b/c of these hireling pastors.
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« Reply #29 on: March 01, 2012, 12:30:40 pm »

I wonder if there is a difference between losing salvation and returning to the world.

We are not saved by works; neither can we work at losing our salvation.
If we sin, we are chastened, we have an advocate, we have the throne of grace.

We are saved by faith in Christ alone; but, can we give up that faith, can we deny the faith, can we turn our backs on Christ and return to the world; ie. apostacy, falling away?

I do not see how, once you are truly saved and born again, that you would even be capable of giving that up.
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