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Once saved always saved (OSAS)

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Author Topic: Once saved always saved (OSAS)  (Read 1858 times)
jackie
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« on: August 01, 2011, 07:51:22 pm »

got in debate with a pastor about OSAS issue. May I ask what are the majority's view on this and could you provide some supporting scripture that upholds your views. Seeking the truth, I believed once saved always saved but this particular pastor had me questioning myself and used scripture too.

I'm beginning to believe I need to stay away from all "formal churches" but I need fellowship and the Word says forsake not the assembling of yourselves together even the more so as you see the day approaching.   Help!         Huh
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Matt 24:42 "Watch therefor: for you know not what hour your Lord doth come."

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« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2011, 08:06:06 pm »

Joh 10:26  But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
Joh 10:27  My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Joh 10:28  And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Joh 10:29  My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Joh 10:30  I and my Father are one.


you might also find some good info here. http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=141557.0
 maybe...  Wink
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« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2011, 08:33:53 pm »

One thing I learned is that Calvinists tend toward OSAS due to irrestible grace, and Arminians tend towards conditional security due to freewill.
------------------------

Keep in mind the parable of the soil; people will fall into one of the four categories.

Luk 8:11  Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
Luk 8:12  Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

Luk 8:13  They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

Luk 8:14  And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.

Luk 8:15  But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.
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« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2011, 09:21:00 pm »

Once saved always saved

Do saved Christians who commit suicide go to the lake of fire

Is it a pre-trib rapture or does the church have to endure persecution during the tribulation?

Is it a 7 year trib or a 3.5 year one?

I'll be honest, there are certain topics where both sides of the fence have equally convincing arguments and are able to point out the proper scripture, but at the same time they will have their share of errors which end up prolonging the argument for months. So I try to stray away from them.
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« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2011, 10:20:36 pm »

Once saved always saved

Do saved Christians who commit suicide go to the lake of fire

Is it a pre-trib rapture or does the church have to endure persecution during the tribulation?

Is it a 7 year trib or a 3.5 year one?

I'll be honest, there are certain topics where both sides of the fence have equally convincing arguments and are able to point out the proper scripture, but at the same time they will have their share of errors which end up prolonging the argument for months. So I try to stray away from them.

Amen.  These only lead to quarrels and divide the Church.  Only the Holy Spirit can lead each one to the truth and the funny thing is that all of us believes we are correct and yet someone is wrong and of course it is always everyone else who is wrong. lol.  It will be a never-ending array of posts where human pride trumps the search for the truth in humility. 
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« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2011, 11:21:44 pm »

Best advice?

Php_2:12  Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
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« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2011, 11:29:59 pm »

One thing on this I will say - when we're saved, it does not give us the right to act like the devil and recklessly. But on the flip side of the coin, we're fooling ourselves if we think we have to be in sinless perfection(1 John chapter 1 - otherwise, we call God a liar).

Ultimately, the bible is THE standard of authority, which is why we have to study it daily and let the Holy Spirit guide our lives with it. Personally, when I got saved in 2006, sometimes I put more attention on the average joe Christian book, and other times I would listen more closely to Charles Stanley, ultimately, I really never got into the word of God on a consistent basis...until 3 years later when the Lord pointed me in the direction of the KJV(it was shortly before when I stumbled on Scott's teaching on maitreya, and I met Dok and Kilika over on PPF that ended up pointing me to here).

So as you can see, once you are saved, you are in God's family - and he will do everything to chase you, chastise you, and whip the fire out of you. In my case for an off-and-on-again 3 year period after I got saved, God may have just delivered my flesh over to Satan b/c of my hard-heartedness so that my spirit shall be saved over the long haul.

Anyhow, thought I would point out my personal testimony here.
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« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2011, 01:25:34 am »

Best advice?

Php_2:12  Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

If not, still most excellent! 
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« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2011, 06:44:04 am »

"What shall we then say to these things? If God [be] for us, who [can be] against us?" Romans 8:31 (KJB)
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« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2011, 06:35:25 pm »

well , thank you for all your input. Truly I did not bring up this discussion to cause division, but am truly seeking truth here.
After reading everyones post I am still convinced that OSAS is correct, when I was saved and born again God made all things new and changed my desires. I find great peace in believing I cannot loose my salvation, that the blood of Jesus is all powerful and He is able to keep me. My head is not in the sand, the more closely I walk with the Lord the more I am aware of my sin and detest it. My hope is in that glorious day when I will shed this body and be made an eternal sinless being in His presence.

1 Cor 15:52-53 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
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« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2011, 03:58:50 am »



This is a video showing that there are two major verses that are wrested out their context to attack eternal security in the dispensations. One is Matt.24:13 (Mk.13:13), which states that one had to endure unto the end to be saved. This is used to attack eternal security in the church age. Salvation here is referring to entering the Millennium Kingdom, not eternal salvation. No Christian has to 'endure to the end' to stay eternally saved Second, is Rev.14:12, which speaks of the patience of the saints and keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. The assumption is that this refers to the mosaic law and that one could lose their salvation under the Mosaic Law. Yet, Jn.10:37-37 says otherwise. Moreover, keeping the commandments of God is stated in 1Cor.7:19 for the Christian as well, and we know the Christian is not under the Mosaic Law. The commandments are summed up as simply loving God and one's neighbor, and that comes from love, a love only believing God can produce.

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« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2011, 07:41:06 am »

Nice !  thanks for the post.    Blessings, Jackie
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Matt 24:42 "Watch therefor: for you know not what hour your Lord doth come."
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« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2011, 03:27:53 pm »

Luke 13
 6He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.

 7Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?

 8And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:

 9And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.

Mathew 3
10And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Gal 5
16This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

 17For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

 18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

 19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

 20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

 23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

 24And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.



My understanding-The life of a believer is really a walk (a growing) and one starts a walk at the beginning and one walks to an end point. A tree is sewn and it continues to fruition.

One must walk in the strength of Christ-unless one is continually yielding to him, then one will be walking in the flesh (to carnality) and will be hewn down....I seen many folk start off good and then not yield to the spirit and eventually their end is stunningly bad (as Gal 5), one would assume without inheritance...



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« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2011, 05:55:10 am »

13   In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 
14   Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. 
Ephesians 1:13,14 (KJB)
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Kilika
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« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2012, 03:19:33 pm »

5   Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6   Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7   That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Titus 3:5-7 (KJB)
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« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2012, 06:22:04 pm »

What is PPF?
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« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2012, 07:03:38 pm »

What is PPF?

Prison Planet Forum
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« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2013, 12:00:25 am »



YOU CAN'T LOSE IT
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« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2014, 02:17:18 pm »

These so-called "Christians" who deny ES can be really something, to say the least.

Was on a YT comments section(on Bryan's previous video discussing), and he called ES a lie. I responded to his comment and asked him if this is true, does this mean he's never sinned nor backslid in his life? He responded how I asked a dumb and foolish question.

Here's the conversation text - notice how these anti-ES people are arrogant and anti-social.

The other guy
Quote
I know men who went back into living in sin when some preacher convinsed them that they could NEVER lose their salvation. John MacArthur is on Youtube telling people that a person could receive the mark of the beast and still be forgiven. ES teachers not only misinterpret scripture to make it say what they want but they condemn the simple of minded in the process. God will demand an account of you at the judgment seat of Christ. I would NOT want to be you on that day.

Me
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So you've never sinned nor backslid in your life?

1John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

The other guy
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But foolish and unlearned questions avoid knowing that they do gender strife. That my friend is a dumb, dumb question.

Me
Quote
Actually, you didn't answer the question. If ES is a lie, then are you saying Christians can never sin nor backslide?

1Peter 3:15  But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
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« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2014, 04:51:48 am »

I think, based on the scripture that came out, God was telling you don't waste your time with that person.

"Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him." Psalm 26:4 (KJB)
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« Reply #20 on: September 24, 2014, 06:39:40 pm »

Luke 13
 6He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.

 7Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?

 8And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:

 9And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.

Mathew 3
10And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Gal 5
16This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

 17For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

 18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

 19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

 20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

 23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

 24And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.



My understanding-The life of a believer is really a walk (a growing) and one starts a walk at the beginning and one walks to an end point. A tree is sewn and it continues to fruition.

One must walk in the strength of Christ-unless one is continually yielding to him, then one will be walking in the flesh (to carnality) and will be hewn down....I seen many folk start off good and then not yield to the spirit and eventually their end is stunningly bad (as Gal 5), one would assume without inheritance...






This post really speaks to me. It took me a long time to see how important it is to yield. I was a start off good. I had Bible knowledge, truth, revelation and faith given to me through the Holy Spirit. Not fully yielding wrecked everything.

Your assumption might be a concern though. When a believer strays ( and all believers do), one of two things occur. Either they invoke God`s chastisment or they don`t. The Bible says the donts are not sons.
But the sons and daughters who fall under chastisement are still saved due to the fact that salvation is accomplished by the blood of Christ.

You and I do not have the capability to know who God will chastise and who He won`t so assumptions can be wrong if not damaging to one`s own self.
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« Reply #21 on: September 24, 2014, 06:52:21 pm »

well , thank you for all your input. Truly I did not bring up this discussion to cause division, but am truly seeking truth here.
After reading everyones post I am still convinced that OSAS is correct, when I was saved and born again God made all things new and changed my desires. I find great peace in believing I cannot loose my salvation, that the blood of Jesus is all powerful and He is able to keep me. My head is not in the sand, the more closely I walk with the Lord the more I am aware of my sin and detest it. My hope is in that glorious day when I will shed this body and be made an eternal sinless being in His presence.

1 Cor 15:52-53 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.


This topic is a contentious debate that rages on every inter-denominational board on the internet. Salvation is so important that we are all very emotionally wrapped around our beliefs about what it takes to be saved and stay saved. People mean well and at the same time grow really contentious about it all. I have some argument that I believe is gospel truth and to some extent bridges the gap between the two arguments and addresses some the things that have an appearance of contradiction. I`m still looking this board over right now but I`ll get back to this subject.
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« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2014, 04:34:42 am »

Okay i was thinking about how the verses in this article how would someone who is not OSAS deal with these? i believe in OSAS !

SINNER'S PRAYER AND SALVATION 9/7/14

http://blessedhopephilippines.blogspot.com/2014/09/sinners-prayer-and-salvation.html

Many of you may not like what I am going to say here, but that is alright. Now, let me just say that salvation DOES NOT come from saying a prayer. Salvation comes from BELIEVING ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST.

Acts 16:29(KJB) Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Acts 16:31 And they said, BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

I have NO PROBLEM with anyone praying, but before someone prays, they must believe first. It is worthless for someone to pray and they do not even believe in Christ and his death, burial and resurrection. If they do not believe first, we leave the door open for the person to count on the prayer for their salvation and not Christ. I came across a someone and confronted him about leading someone in prayer for salvation. He told me that when he got saved, he repeated a prayer and that he knows that he is saved. He was counting on the prayer and not Christ.

Just take a look at the book of Acts. There is not one person mentioned who prayed for salvation. Praying is not even mentioned. IT IS ALL ABOUT TURNING FROM UNBELIEF TO BELIEF IN CHRIST AND HIS FINISHED WORK AT CALVARY (REPENTANCE). so praying is NOT NECESSARY FOR SALVATION but, if someone would like to pray, I have no problem with it, if they believe first.

1. The Ethiopian Eunuch (Acts 8:26-39)
2. The Apostle Paul (Acts 9:1-8; 22:5-19; 26:12-18)
3. Cornelius and his household (Acts 10-1 through 11:18)
4. Antioch firstfruits (Acts 11:19-26)
5. Sergius Paulus (Acts 13:6-12)
6. Glorifying the Word in Pisidian Antioch (Acts 13:14-49)
7. Iconium Believers (Acts 14:1)
8. Lydia (Acts 16:12-15)
9. The Philippian Jailer (Acts 16:16-34)
10. Thesalonicans with Biblical reason (Acts 17:1-4)
11. Berean Belief (Acts 17:10-12)
12. Mars Hill Idolaters (Acts 17:16-34)

Not one time do these verses mention that any of them prayed for salvation or had to pray for salvation.

Look at John 3:16-18:

John 3:16(KJB) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever BELIEVETH in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
John 3:18 He that BELIEVETH on him is not condemned: but he that BELIEVETH NOT is condemned already, because HE HATH NOT BELIEVED IN THE NAME OF THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD.

John 1:12(KJB) But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that BELIEVE ON HIS NAME:
John 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

1Corinthians 1:21(KJB) For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching TO SAVE THEM THAT BELIEVE.

So, soul winning will take time. It may take someone a long period of time before they will believe the gospel (1 Corinthians 15 1-4). A few visits may have to be made. So, be patient, keep praying for the lost and trust the Lord. Stop being in such a hurry to get someone to pray. Let the Lord do a work in them through the power of the Holy Spirit. May the Lord bless you all.
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« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2014, 06:08:37 am »

Okay i was thinking about how the verses in this article how would someone who is not OSAS deal with these? i believe in OSAS !

SINNER'S PRAYER AND SALVATION 9/7/14

http://blessedhopephilippines.blogspot.com/2014/09/sinners-prayer-and-salvation.html

Many of you may not like what I am going to say here, but that is alright. Now, let me just say that salvation DOES NOT come from saying a prayer. Salvation comes from BELIEVING ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST.

Acts 16:29(KJB) Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Acts 16:31 And they said, BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

I have NO PROBLEM with anyone praying, but before someone prays, they must believe first. It is worthless for someone to pray and they do not even believe in Christ and his death, burial and resurrection. If they do not believe first, we leave the door open for the person to count on the prayer for their salvation and not Christ. I came across a someone and confronted him about leading someone in prayer for salvation. He told me that when he got saved, he repeated a prayer and that he knows that he is saved. He was counting on the prayer and not Christ.

Just take a look at the book of Acts. There is not one person mentioned who prayed for salvation. Praying is not even mentioned. IT IS ALL ABOUT TURNING FROM UNBELIEF TO BELIEF IN CHRIST AND HIS FINISHED WORK AT CALVARY (REPENTANCE). so praying is NOT NECESSARY FOR SALVATION but, if someone would like to pray, I have no problem with it, if they believe first.

1. The Ethiopian Eunuch (Acts 8:26-39)
2. The Apostle Paul (Acts 9:1-8; 22:5-19; 26:12-18)
3. Cornelius and his household (Acts 10-1 through 11:18)
4. Antioch firstfruits (Acts 11:19-26)
5. Sergius Paulus (Acts 13:6-12)
6. Glorifying the Word in Pisidian Antioch (Acts 13:14-49)
7. Iconium Believers (Acts 14:1)
8. Lydia (Acts 16:12-15)
9. The Philippian Jailer (Acts 16:16-34)
10. Thesalonicans with Biblical reason (Acts 17:1-4)
11. Berean Belief (Acts 17:10-12)
12. Mars Hill Idolaters (Acts 17:16-34)

Not one time do these verses mention that any of them prayed for salvation or had to pray for salvation.

Look at John 3:16-18:

John 3:16(KJB) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever BELIEVETH in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
John 3:18 He that BELIEVETH on him is not condemned: but he that BELIEVETH NOT is condemned already, because HE HATH NOT BELIEVED IN THE NAME OF THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD.

John 1:12(KJB) But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that BELIEVE ON HIS NAME:
John 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

1Corinthians 1:21(KJB) For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching TO SAVE THEM THAT BELIEVE.

So, soul winning will take time. It may take someone a long period of time before they will believe the gospel (1 Corinthians 15 1-4). A few visits may have to be made. So, be patient, keep praying for the lost and trust the Lord. Stop being in such a hurry to get someone to pray. Let the Lord do a work in them through the power of the Holy Spirit. May the Lord bless you all.

The Bible says that devils believe and tremble. The writer of this article takes an extreme position that is contrary to the gospel. There are many problems with his view. One point being,belief in the Biblical sense affects ones behavior and that aspect of it is supported by many scriptures.
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« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2014, 08:22:06 am »

The Bible says that devils believe and tremble. The writer of this article takes an extreme position that is contrary to the gospel. There are many problems with his view. One point being,belief in the Biblical sense affects ones behavior and that aspect of it is supported by many scriptures.

Let's not forget that we are all still in our weak flesh.

Galatians 5:17  For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.


And let's not forget too that it's THE LORD who will guide us in all things, and not ourselves.

1John 2:27  But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

For example - can't tell you how many times where temptations and the lusts of the flesh would be pretty big, but the Holy Spirit inside of me would yell "Warning! Danger Ahead!".

2Thes 3:3  But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.

Ultimately, we can't do anything of ourselves.

Romans 3:25  Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Rom 3:26  To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Rom 3:27  Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Rom 3:28  Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
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« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2014, 05:48:50 pm »

Let's not forget that we are all still in our weak flesh.

Galatians 5:17  For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.


And let's not forget too that it's THE LORD who will guide us in all things, and not ourselves.

1John 2:27  But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

For example - can't tell you how many times where temptations and the lusts of the flesh would be pretty big, but the Holy Spirit inside of me would yell "Warning! Danger Ahead!".

2Thes 3:3  But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.

Ultimately, we can't do anything of ourselves.

Romans 3:25  Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Rom 3:26  To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Rom 3:27  Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Rom 3:28  Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.


Yes brother, and for all these reasons we must yield to God`s Spirit and follow. When I am feeling the weight of my own unworthyness I usually think about Romans 3:25, reminding myself that Jesus is the propiation for all sin. To me propiation is a powerful word and it`s a verse that comforts me when I am in need.
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« Reply #26 on: September 29, 2014, 09:36:47 am »

Hebrews 6:4  For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5  And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6  If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


No, this passage does NOT mean a Christian can lose his or her salvation if they fall away into sin - just think about it(and here's a couple of examples)...

1) Let's say a professing born-again believer is seen by his unbelieving neighbors, co-workers, etc walking into a movie theater to watch a movie with alot of violence, blasphemy, and foul language. Didn't he or she ruin their own testimony and put the Son of God unto open shame?

2) Rick Warren I don't think is a saved man - but nonetheless - a couple of years ago(for example), he asked his congregation at his church for $1m in 72 hours b/c (supposedly)they were under-budget that much. But guess what happened subsequently - even the UNBELIEVING world was able to discern this wickedness(while professing Christians just stood down and acted like he did the right thing). So what did they do? They put the Son of God to an open shame(which Warren himself provoked, to say the least!).

Ultimately, our lives as born-again believers are for Jesus Christ. We don't lose our salvation, but ultimately we have to give an account to the Lord Jesus Christ at the judgment seat of Christ for everything we said and did.

2Corinthians 5:10  For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
2Co 5:11  Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

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« Reply #27 on: September 29, 2014, 08:42:46 pm »

Hebrews 6:4  For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5  And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6  If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


No, this passage does NOT mean a Christian can lose his or her salvation if they fall away into sin - just think about it(and here's a couple of examples)...

1) Let's say a professing born-again believer is seen by his unbelieving neighbors, co-workers, etc walking into a movie theater to watch a movie with alot of violence, blasphemy, and foul language. Didn't he or she ruin their own testimony and put the Son of God unto open shame?

2) Rick Warren I don't think is a saved man - but nonetheless - a couple of years ago(for example), he asked his congregation at his church for $1m in 72 hours b/c (supposedly)they were under-budget that much. But guess what happened subsequently - even the UNBELIEVING world was able to discern this wickedness(while professing Christians just stood down and acted like he did the right thing). So what did they do? They put the Son of God to an open shame(which Warren himself provoked, to say the least!).

Ultimately, our lives as born-again believers are for Jesus Christ. We don't lose our salvation, but ultimately we have to give an account to the Lord Jesus Christ at the judgment seat of Christ for everything we said and did.

2Corinthians 5:10  For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
2Co 5:11  Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.




How about this one. Same topic. From Hebrews 10.

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


What do we do with these?  Deny it?  Say the book of Hebrews is wrong? Contradict it?

I`ve dealt with a few people who were struggling with these passages before. It been my experience that the above excuses will not satisfy the concern and doubt.

Then there are others who use these passage to argue that people who are really saved do not sin and that since you acknowledge that you sin then you are not saved.
And they have put you are in a position in which you will deny what the scriptures say.

I have to get off my pc for awhile now. LOL!  Sorry about that. But when I come back I`ll share my position on these passages and how I think they must be reconciled with the rest of the gospel.
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« Reply #28 on: September 29, 2014, 11:38:51 pm »

Paul gave two principles for understanding the Bible.

First is.

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Second is.

2 Timothy 2:15

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.


Paul tells us that all scriptures can enrich us as doctrines, to criticize and correct us and to instruct us in righteousness. But we must correctly divide them. To me that means understanding the ages/dispensations, the various covenants of God, and who scriptures are addressing.

While it is true that the scriptures are addressing all of us, they were also directed to people living at the time the scriptures were given.

In the case of the book of Hebrews, can you guess who it is addressing? LOL!

Israel in the first century is almost comparable to modern Islamic religious state. It was dangerous and costly in many way to believe in Jesus. Also, the Hebrew believers had lived during the time of Christ, They seen Him, heard Him, many of them witnessed His miracles and in my opinion they had a greater responsibility to strongly believe then you and I today.

When somebody fell away from that body of believers they didn`t stop being religious. What they did was renounce Christ and return to the Hebrew religion of the time. Some if not many of them renounced their faith knowing in their heart that Jesus is the Christ.

This is the type of falling away the writer of Hebrews is condemning.

The only thing in our culture I know of to compare it to would be a Christian who became agnostic or atheist. I would not go as far to condemn such people but I`m not under the kind of pressure those Hebrews were under either.

The issue seen in Hebrews in 6 and 10 is not a matter of someone straying from Jesus. It was more serious then that which is the point I`m trying to make.
Even so I cannot see much hope for them. I`ve dealt with some and they are dry twigs with no life in them.
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« Reply #29 on: September 29, 2014, 11:42:10 pm »

I was once in Jackie’s position. I had just discovered the passage about “the unpardonable sin” and the demons were having a field day with me. “Ooh, you’ve done it now. No hope for you. You can kiss that salvation goodbye! Might as well stick with us because God may or may not have just rejected you!”

Well, I was so distressed that I had to drop everything go to a brother’s house immediately to get this straight. I didn’t even want to know what the unpardonable sin was for fear that I might be tempted to do it. After I told him what was happening to me, he said, “Oh, that old trick. If you had committed the unpardonable sin, you wouldn’t be standing here worried about it.”

It then occurred to me what that was. The key word in Hebrews 10:26 is “willfully”.

I believe God is fair and just. If somebody knows full well who the Father, the Son, and The Holy Spirit is and what they have to offer, then decides repeatedly to reject that in favor of knowingly being a child of Satan, with all the consequences thereof, then I believe God, specifically the Holy Spirit, will eventually honor that free-will decision and withdraw completely from that person.

There are some that walk the earth like this. They are favored by the world, and able to commit the most heinous sins while sleeping just fine at night and fully believing without a shadow of a doubt whatever Satan and his demons tell them. There is no conscience whatsoever to be found within these people. The world describes them as psychopaths and sociopaths. They become quite brilliant and intelligent, yet insane. Just like their father.

A classic example of God’s grace is the necessity of the cremation of care ceremony at the Bohemian Grove. The participants have to repeatedly tell God to go away. Yet He still makes the offer to them.
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