The Christian Wife

[William]

I wanted to bring up a little Bible study to address this issue. This is also a response to Kilika's post on my other topic I made about moving to Springfield.

Here is some verses to start off with:

[Whoso] findeth a wife findeth a good [thing], and obtaineth favour of the LORD. [Proverbs 18:22]

(That's a good thing to hear! we obtain favour of the Lord if we find a wife...Its a good thing to find...)


And the LORD God said, [It is] not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. [Genesis 2:18]

(God said its not good for man to be alone. He needs companionship, and he needs a help to make things go smoother.)

And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.

And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

And Adam said, This [is] now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. [Genesis 2:20-24]

(It says we are to leave our mother, and father and cleave unto our wives! - They become one flesh once its consummated in the marriage bed. God made woman for a reason, and brought her unto the man.)


Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire [shall be] to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. [Genesis 3:16]


(Her desire shall be to please thy husband...and she is to be in subjection, and the man rules over her.)


And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living. [Genesis 3:20]


(Adam named his wife. I believe we also can, or are to name our wife's if we choose so...I know that sounds a bit strange, but according to that scripture above - Genesis 3:20 Adam did. So we also can, and its Biblical.)



In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.

Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety. [I Timothy 2:9-15]

(She is to continue in childbearing. The woman is to be in silence to her Husband, and the Church. She can learn in subjection, and in silence as it says in above scriptures. Also it talks about she may ask her Husband at home if there's something she doesn't understand. She is not to usurp authority over her Husband. Its how God made it according to the Word. There also are duties of the man such as providing, and leading the wife, etc. You can check other scriptures on that info if you like. Also she should maintain good works, and that they adorn themselves in modest apparel.)

(Now I have gotten into discussions, before about whether a Dress is more modest than pants - All I can say is "let every man be persuaded in his own mind." according to Romans. If its more cost effective to use pants than do so, but I do believe it can be crossing over into that line where shes trying to act like a man, or wear men's clothing. There are women's pants, but you have to ask yourself this question - Did men, or women sanction women to wear pants? If her husband allows her to do so than I believe its okay. Were not under the law, but grace. We are to be a light though and walk in holiness, because the word says, "Be ye holy as I am holy.")

(Also I know its hard to find modest clothing. I mean its not like you can go to Walmart, or Target, etc. So you have to shop around a little, or learn to make your own clothing, but also please note this is just my conviction I get, and understand if your not getting the same from the Lord.)

(According to above scriptures I don't think women should wear makeup. They already look beautiful as God made them, and our bodies are Temples of the Holy Ghost. We should honour them as best we can. She should be shy and quiet (shamefacedness) as well as not using a lot of jewelry, but being natural as the Lord made her. However were called to peace, and grace  )

A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;

(For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) [I Timothy 3:2-5]

(I listed this scripture, because I wanted to point something out about that a Husband should never strike his wife as it says he should be "no Striker," and remember she is the weaker vessel  Treat them with love, and kindness, and cherish them, and be protective. Do not beat, or harm them, or cause fear to them (Fear that is not needed if she doesn't reverence you that is.)

(Also he should be the Husband of one wife. Not two...not three, or five, but ONE. Loyal to one only. Also ruling his house well, and having his children in subjection as his wife, but to his wife and himself. I know this speaks about a bishop, but I think some of it applies also to normal Christian relationships as well.)



Even so [must their] wives [be] grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.

Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.  [I Timothy 3:11-12]

(Again the Husband of one wife - This scripture proves Women can't be leaders in the Church, because it doesn't say "The wife of one husband." Its God's word, not mine. Also their wives must be grave, and don't be slandering...just keep your mouth shut, and be quiet as is required of you. Sober, and faithful in all things, and to your Husband.)


Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

Forbidding to marry, [and commanding] to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. [I Timothy 4:1-3]

(I bring this Scripture up, because some will Forbid to merry, but the Lord Jesus Christ never forbids us to merry. So we have to be careful about not telling others they can't merry. God permits it.)

Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity. [I Timothy 4:12]


(Don't let anyone depise your youth, or just because you have a young wife, and are taking care of a young wife.)



But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel. [I Timothy 5:8]


(This one kind of scares me actually, but that's good, because it talks about in Isaiah 66:2 that God will look to the man that trembles at his word. The point being we are to provide for our wives, and children according to the scriptures if its possible. I know in some cases it may not be, and there may be difficult times, but pray and fast to the Lord - for ultimately it is he who provideth all these things.)



But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry;

Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.

And withal they learn [to be] idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not.

I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully.

For some are already turned aside after Satan.  [I Timothy 5:11-15]


(They are to be keepers at home. They homeschool their children with the Word of God as well. Younger women should marry if at all possible, and I like this scripture, because I think it speaks against like "The Catholic's set up of the nuns and stuff. Its saying they should marry!" They bear children as they should.



If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.  [Titus 1:6]




The aged women likewise, that [they be] in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;

That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,

[To be] discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed. [Titus 2:3-5]

(This is pretty clear)

Also Proverbs Chapter 31 is always good as well.



The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so [are] abomination unto the LORD thy God. [Deuteronomy 22:5]


(Brought this up, because not only should a man not wear womens clothing, or a woman mans I do believe this could also segway into like their speech, and how they act. Their attitude and such. So they should act like a woman, and not a man.)



And now, my daughter, fear not; I will do to thee all that thou requirest: for all the city of my people doth know that thou [art] a virtuous woman. [Ruth 3:11]



And Hannah answered and said, No, my lord, I [am] a woman of a sorrowful spirit: I have drunk neither wine nor strong drink, but have poured out my soul before the LORD. [I Samuel 1:15]



Now the name of the man [was] Nabal; and the name of his wife Abigail: and [she was] a woman of good understanding, and of a beautiful countenance: but the man [was] churlish and evil in his doings; and he [was] of the house of Caleb. [I Samuel 25:3]


For a **** [is] a deep ditch; and a strange woman [is] a narrow pit. [Proverbs 23:27]


[It is] better to dwell in the corner of the housetop, than with a brawling woman and in a wide house. [Proverbs 25:24]


A continual dropping in a very rainy day and a contentious woman are alike. [Proverbs 27:15]


Favour [is] deceitful, and beauty [is] vain: [but] a woman [that] feareth the LORD, she shall be praised. [Proverbs 31:30]

(A woman who fears the Lord is also good, and required.)

And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery. [Mark 10:12]


Either what woman having ten pieces of silver, if she lose one piece, doth not light a candle, and sweep the house, and seek diligently till she find [it]? [Luke 15:8]



For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to [her] husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of [her] husband. [Romans 7:2]


I will post my second part of scriptures below.

[William]

Part II of the Scriptures


Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: [It is] good for a man not to touch a woman.
     Nevertheless, [to avoid] fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
     Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.
        Defraud ye not one the other, except [it be] with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.
         But I speak this by permission, [and] not of commandment.
     For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.
     I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I.
     But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.
   ¶    And unto the married I command, [yet] not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from [her] husband:
         But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to [her] husband: and let not the husband put away [his] wife.
         But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.
        And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.
        For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
         But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such [cases]: but God hath called us to peace.
         For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save [thy] husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save [thy] wife?
    ¶    But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.
         Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised.
         Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
         Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.
          Art thou called [being] a servant? care not for it: but if thou mayest be made free, use [it] rather.
          For he that is called in the Lord, [being] a servant, is the Lord's freeman: likewise also he that is called, [being] free, is Christ's servant.
          Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men.
         Brethren, let every man, wherein he is called, therein abide with God.
     ¶    Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment, as one that hath obtained mercy of the Lord to be faithful.
         I suppose therefore that this is good for the present distress, [I say], that [it is] good for a man so to be.
         Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife.
          But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.
          But this I say, brethren, the time [is] short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none;
          And they that weep, as though they wept not; and they that rejoice, as though they rejoiced not; and they that buy, as though they possessed not;
          And they that use this world, as not abusing [it]: for the fashion of this world passeth away.
          But I would have you without carefulness. He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord:
          But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please [his] wife.
          There is difference [also] between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please [her] husband.
          And this I speak for your own profit; not that I may cast a snare upon you, but for that which is comely, and that ye may attend upon the Lord without distraction.
          But if any man think that he behaveth himself uncomely toward his virgin, if she pass the flower of [her] age, and need so require, let him do what he will, he sinneth not: let them marry.
         Nevertheless he that standeth stedfast in his heart, having no necessity, but hath power over his own will, and hath so decreed in his heart that he will keep his virgin, doeth well.
          So then he that giveth [her] in marriage doeth well; but he that giveth [her] not in marriage doeth better.
          The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.
         But she is happier if she so abide, after my judgment: and I think also that I have the Spirit of God.



I Corinthians 7:1-40

[hannahj]

I know that this post is an old one, so I apologize for bringing it back up... but I really wanted to comment.

I'm a woman(obvious by the name, right?) and I think that women should only wear dresses and skirts. Now, I don't think that women are going to hell for not doing it(that's legalism, and unscriptural) but I do think that wearing skirts and dresses makes God happy.

I'm in the middle of drafting a book directed towards Christian women(which I don't think will be popular...) and in it I explain why I feel this way:

 ------

I think that things that show cleavage, are too tight, or that draw attention to your private areas are not good to wear in public. I think we can all discern amongst ourselves what that means for us. Something that is modest on a thin woman might not be so modest on a curvy woman. When in doubt pray about it, and asking your husband might help too.

The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.  Deuteronomy 22:5

What does this verse mean? Can anyone tell me? I hear so many conflicting responses.

One that I hear often, is that men and women used to wear robes. The men's robes were very different than the women's robes. Therefore, in the past, they weren't allowed to wear the other gender's robes. That it was a cultural thing in the past that doesn't apply to now.

I find this explanation severely lacking... All other Old Testament rules were either done away with or solidified in the New Testament. For instance, the levitical dietary guidelines were revoked in Acts 10 and 11, the animal sacrifices were done away with when our Lord and Saviour Jesus was slain on the cross to forgive us our sins, the multiple wives that were permitted for a time were done away with when Jesus reiterates God's words in Mark 10:7-8... I could go on, but the point is that Deuteronomy 22:5 was not done away with. In fact, you could make the argument that it was reiterated in 1 Timothy 2:9 and 1 Peter 3:2.

So, I will ask again, what does God mean by this verse?

While it is true that in Biblical times women and men both wore robes, they were different. There was a difference between men's and women's robes, because men and women are different. So how can we dress different from men today?

The answer is one that you probably already knew... I think to apply Deuteronomy 22:5 to today, we can only assume that we shouldn't be wearing pants.

It's interesting to note that women didn't start wearing pants until the early 20th century. Before that only men wore pants. In fact, up until 1972 it was required of women to wear skirts at work and for girls to wear them at school. Dresses and skirts are distinctly feminine. If a man wore a skirt down the street most would gawk. I think this proves a valid point.

Also, have you ever noticed the signs for genders outside of the bathroom? The men's bathroom has a sign with a stick person wearing pants, and the woman's bathroom has a sign with a stick person in a dress. The only difference between these two stick people is what they are wearing, one wears pants and another dresses. They are distinctly different because of their clothing.

Another interesting note about pants on women is the modesty issue. Are pants even modest?

Pants are form fitting, thus tight. A good fitting pair of jeans is designed to draw attention to your rear, otherwise they don't fit "right." I think that this really says something about pants.

Cathy Corle,in her book What in the World should I Wear?, shows a group of women two pictures of the same lady. The first one has her in a nice dress. She asked a group of ladies what they noticed about this woman, and they answered her face. Then she showed them the picture of the same woman in a pair of jeans and asked what they noticed. They said their eyes were immediately drawn to the crotch area!

Something that has become popular now and days is to wear leggings for pants or skin tight yoga pants. These leggings and yoga pants are so skin tight, they are almost worse than jeans. They leave nothing to the imagination, and they don't help your brothers in Christ to look at you like sisters. Another new fad is short shorts in the summer, so short that they might as well be underwear. Shorts are just like pants, they are still tight no matter what, they are still immodest, but almost worse so. They show your thighs, and a lot of them draw even more attention to your rear. Overall, I think that these are totally wrong for modest women to wear; no one can say that yoga pants and shorts are modest.

Another thing on shorts(and shorter dresses and skirts), Isaiah 47:2-3 says this:

Take the millstones, and grind meal: uncover thy locks, make bare the leg, uncover the thigh, pass over the rivers. Thy nakedness shall be uncovered, yea, thy shame shall be seen...

God is talking about Babylon, in this verse, and their thighs being uncovered(also called their nakedness). Also, in Exodus 28:42, God instructs Moses on how to dress the priests:

And thou shalt make them linen breeches to cover their nakedness; from the loins even unto the thighs they shall reach

God calls the Babylonians who have their thighs uncovered naked. He also says that the priest's thighs should be covered. These verses convict me not to wear anything that shows my thighs. In the Old Testament, showing your thigh was akin to being naked.

So then, what if it's summer? What am I supposed to do when it's hot outside? What did people in the past do? In the middle east people don't wear shorts in the summer. Most women wear flowing dresses made of a light fabric like linen. The light fabric helps their clothing to breath, and the fact that their clothing covers their body helps to protect them against the sun's harmful rays.

Ok, so we know that pants that fit correctly on women are form fitting and immodest, well then another argument that I hear is "what if I wear loose pants?"

I find this argument is grasping at straws. If your pants are loose are you dressing femininely? If your pants are loose, it will literally look like you are wearing your husband's pants. Wearing men's pants isn't feminine and goes against the teaching in Deuteronomy 22:5.

Other arguments that I hear are that women don't want to show their varicose veins, or that they don't like the way their legs look. I find that this is a lack of submission. These are excuses to go against what God is teaching in His Word. Should you lie because the truth might hurt someone's feelings? It's still a lie, you will still be punished. And besides, you could always wear tights underneath your skirt or wear longer skirts.

I think that modesty is a complex issue. I think that it's an issue that isn't spoken of enough in the church. What this topic really needs is balance. You can wear whatever you want to wear, but that doesn't mean that all things are good for you to wear.

I think something that everyone should keep in mind is this: If I were going out to lunch with God, would I want Him to see me in this? If the answer is no, then you probably shouldn't be wearing it.
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I hope I didn't miss anything. And if you, as mostly Christian men, have anything to add that I may have missed please tell me. I think that it is pleasing to the Lord for women to wear skirts/dresses only, similar to it pleasing the Lord for women to have long hair.

Thanks for your time and God bless.

[Mark]

what about say, beach apparel? or say if the the woman wants to go hiking and camping? Some thing just isnt fit for a dress. Yet trousers were around back then, and there really isnt any that states woman didnt wear them. In the far east countries the woman did during this time period. And durig the renosaunce era and the time of the 1800's big hoop dresses were all the fad, yet the woman usually had on some bloomers underneath. interesting... but really when the modern jeans were invented, ie levis blue jeans, they were made from canvas ad were definatly NOT form fitting. just my thoughts...

[hannahj]

I talk about swimwear too in my book. It's a really hot topic among women!

---
The bikini first really came about in ancient Greece(5600 BC). It was worn for athletic events, similar to how men were naked during the original Olympics... Next it evolved in Rome(300 AD), where women who were sex workers wore them. The next bikini(as we would view it today) didn't come around until 1946. It was designed by French engineer Louis Réard. We can thank him for the bikini making a comeback.

I wanted you to see the history behind the bikini because it is argued about so often. The bikini started out in a pagan culture, was adopted by another pagan culture, and finally came about not too long before the 'sexual revolution' and 'women's liberation'. I don't understand why it is ok for a woman to wear a bikini to the beach or a pool, but not ok for a woman to wear a bra and panties while grocery shopping. It is the same design. It's just a different fabric. If you walked down the street with a bra and panties you could get arrested for public indecency, do it in a bikini and you're fine. Why? Why the double standard?

I don't think that it's ok for women to wear something that really should only be worn in the comfort of the marriage bed. We could really just go back to Romans 14:13 to prove that...

What should you wear to swim then? I would suggest a swim dress. Now before you think that I'm nuts and think about those things from the 40s, they do have stylish swim dresses today. Most swim dresses go about to the knee and come with swim leggings to wear underneath. They don't cling like wearing a t-shirt to swim, and they dry quickly. I think that these are perfect for women to swim in, and they flatter every body type. Hydrochic.com sells modest swimwear and workout attire.
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I wear a swimdress and I find it very modest and pretty. It came with swim-leggings to wear underneath for added security 

As for the bloomers thing, those were underwear back then.So, I don't think that really counts as pants.

And, women didn't wear pants until fairly recently in history. Or, at least not how they are pictured today. People in pagan eastern cultures did wear them(China, Japan, etc.), but the pants stll looked like a skirt(if that makes sense?) Like this: http://asian-culture-shop.com/d.asp?a=Ancient+Japanese+Pants+for+Women&d=6676

Also, jeans were designed for railroad workers and miners(women didn't work when they were invented, jeans were mens clothing). That's why they weren't form fitting.

And, as a woman in my 20s with a 1 year old son, I can assure you that women can do anything in a skirt. Women did for 1000s of years. I run, hike, fish, clean, swim, and more in my skirts while still being modest(jean skirts help with more vigorous activities). I even tackled a friend in my skirt without showing anything. Your objections were common among women not wanting to make the leap(I had them too!), but I think ultimately it's a lack of submission. on  the woman's part.

[Kilika]

From what I've read so far hannaj, I agree with you.

"Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies." Proverbs 31:10 (KJB)

The woman who is born-again will have a modest, humble spirit to them, as it's the Holy Ghost guiding them. The idea like you point out is what does the person consider "modest", as some things are more edifying than other apparel. An extreme effort in humility might be covering to the neck, wrists, and ankles. But would that be moderate in your humility, or would that be excessive? I believe there is an extensive reason for scripture saying to let our moderation be made known unto men. I believe it can get to the point of a person being "prudish" beyond reason.

The wearing of pants can have it's place for a woman. But in general, I do believe it's better to leave the wearing of pants to men.

As you say, women have been, and are right now, doing all kinds of activities just fine while wearing a dress or tunic-type apparel.

If a man is concerned with what he might find under that dress, he's missing the point. Our interactions are supposed to be one of "try the spirits..." initially, not how they look physically. One should be looking for a born-again heart, not a body type.

Swimwear? Uh, for what reason would a person swim? Vanity of sport and exercise? Recreation? Risk of physical harm, or need of travel?

Swimwear should not even exist. Swimming is pure vanity. Ever wonder why swimmers and surfers get eaten by sharks? Because of their own vanity, they were drawn to go where sharks live, duh!

The reality is that many women, men too, are motivated by vanity, a concern what others will think of them. We are hear to please God, not ourselves. Along with humility, there should be a desire for sacrificing one's own wants, because our wants usually are born of the lusts of the flesh, the lusts of the eyes, and the pride of life.

[Mark]

Swimwear? Uh, for what reason would a person swim? Vanity of sport and exercise? Recreation? Risk of physical harm, or need of travel?

Swimwear should not even exist. Swimming is pure vanity. Ever wonder why swimmers and surfers get eaten by sharks? Because of their own vanity, they were drawn to go where sharks live, duh!

[tennis shoe]

Neoprene wetsuit!

It's modest AND keeps you warm at the same time.