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Pre-trib rapture and antichrist

August 08, 2018, 02:38:10 am suzytr says: Hello, any good churches in the Sacto, CA area, also looking in Reno NV, thanks in advance and God Bless you Smiley
January 29, 2018, 01:21:57 am Christian40 says: It will be interesting to see what happens this year Israel being 70 years as a modern nation may 14 2018
October 17, 2017, 01:25:20 am Christian40 says: It is good to type Mark is here again!  Smiley
October 16, 2017, 03:28:18 am Christian40 says: anyone else thinking that time is accelerating now? it seems im doing days in shorter time now is time being affected in some way?
September 24, 2017, 10:45:16 pm Psalm 51:17 says: The specific rule pertaining to the national anthem is found on pages A62-63 of the league rulebook. It states: “The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem. “During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.”
September 20, 2017, 04:32:32 am Christian40 says: "The most popular Hepatitis B vaccine is nothing short of a witch’s brew including aluminum, formaldehyde, yeast, amino acids, and soy. Aluminum is a known neurotoxin that destroys cellular metabolism and function. Hundreds of studies link to the ravaging effects of aluminum. The other proteins and formaldehyde serve to activate the immune system and open up the blood-brain barrier. This is NOT a good thing."
September 19, 2017, 03:59:21 am Christian40 says: bbc international did a video about there street preaching they are good witnesses
September 14, 2017, 08:06:04 am Psalm 51:17 says: bro Mark Hunter on YT has some good, edifying stuff too.
September 14, 2017, 04:31:26 am Christian40 says: i have thought that i'm reaping from past sins then my life has been impacted in ways from having non believers in my ancestry.
September 11, 2017, 06:59:33 am Psalm 51:17 says: The law of reaping and sowing. It's amazing how God's mercy and longsuffering has hovered over America so long. (ie, the infrastructure is very bad here b/c for many years, they were grossly underspent on. 1st Tim 6:10, the god of materialism has its roots firmly in the West) And remember once upon a time ago when shacking up b/w straight couples drew shock awe?

Exodus 20:5  Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
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Author Topic: Pre-trib rapture and antichrist  (Read 8392 times)
« Reply #60 on: May 09, 2013, 05:19:15 am »

"For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it." 1 Corinthians 11:18 (KJB)

Because I'm not convinced, as well as I think it's not important and even a distraction, to be debating "pre or post trib", I tend to avoid this discussion. We are saved whether we are right or wrong about when we are caught up to "meet the Lord in the air".

The point to remember is that we will be shown what we need when we need it. Jesus promised us we would be shown things, that we would know our redemption "draweth nigh". So that means we will see certain changes in the world around us that lets us know the time is short.

But what I think some people tend to overlook is that there is two types of tribulation mentioned in scripture. There is the tribulation we experience while here, as part of the day to day dealings with the world because the world hates us. The other is "great tribulation", which is commonly thought to be the 7 year tribulation period, during which the trumpet, seals, and vials are unleashed.

One indicator that is mentioned is the "trumpet" that is mentioned as part of the great tribulation, and another mentioned as being "the trumpet shall sound..." seems to be connected to our "rapture", "the dead in Christ shall rise first..."

Are there two trumpet sounds? Or are these two one and the same trumpet? Also, pre-trib says we won't be here during the sounding of the trumpets, along with the opening of the seals, etc, as that's part of the great tribulation period, we are already gone by then, right?

Jesus clearly says, "In the world ye shall have tribulation...". That however is not a reference anything more than how we experience tribulation in the world, but it doesn't relate to any rapture. It's not the same type "tribulation". I mention this because some confuse certain verses as evidence of pre-trib, when in fact it's talking about the general tribulation we all experience each day in the world, and is not any indicator of a rapture.

More than one verse mentioned above have no relation to the rapture, such as the Matthew 24 verses. Notice that it says, "...from one end of heaven to the other." That verse to me shows the body of Christ already in heaven. It doesn't say earth, but heaven. If we have not been "raptured" yet, we obviously could not be in heaven to be gathered from one end to the other.

The key is where it says, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days". Wait, stop. What tribulation? And what is being described as taking place after that tribulation? The return of Jesus, with His saints, the armies of God, gathered by His angels "from one end of heaven to the other". So is Matthew 24:29 talking about the "great tribulation" period? Seems so. That means then we need to go back in time to see what takes place during and before "the tribulation of those days", because from verse 29 on, the body is definitely in heaven already. NOW we have a baseline (determine when we are definitely here, and when we are no longer here) to work with on the timeline. So the latter Matthew 24 verses only help establish a point when we are no longer here, but in heaven. It needs to be defines what the tribulation is in verse 29, but it seems like THE tribulation period. By that time, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days", we are already gone.

This I believe is one of the most telling verses on the topic...

1Th 4:15  For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

Notice it says "we". Who "we" are needs to be clarified.

The author is including himself in the group of those believers that are alive in the flesh on earth when Jesus returns, with His gathered armies. But, "we" in that verse are said to be on earth still, observing His return. So, how does that work? To say "we" is to refer to all believers, yet Matthew tells us that we are already with Jesus when He returns. Hmm. Somebody is wrong, and it ain't Jesus!

This is where some say that they are the people who were left on earth after the rapture, but have been born-again during the great tribulation and are still alive in the flesh on earth when Jesus returns "with ten thousands of his saints". I'm not seeing anything yet that refutes that. It doesn't not fit. This is where some say thta there is not a single "rapture", but more than one, a pre-trib of believers, then another at the time of Jesus' return with those saints who were raptured before the great tribulation period. Some have tried to make the case that there is even more than two "raptures", calling the taking up of Enoch as a rapture. That to me is a stretch of the word "rapture".

But it is clear to me that if there is such a thing as a pre-tribulation rapture, there is also a "rapture" of the seven year tribulation period new believers as Jesus returns as well.

So for what it's worth, attention needs to be paid to which tribulation is being talked about in a given verse, as both general and the great tribulation period are mentioned in and around end times related verses. The word "tribulation" is used generally throughout scripture, and specifically about the seven year tribulation period.

"No prophesy of scripture is of any private interpretation..."

No question, there is just one interpretation, so some of us are wrong, and must humble ourselves and let God shows us the error of our way.

"Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be." James 3:10 (KJB)

"[Be] of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits." Romans 12:16 (KJB)

"But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain." Titus 3:9 (KJB)

"For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's." Romans 14:8 (KJB)
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