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Pre-trib rapture and antichrist

August 08, 2018, 02:38:10 am suzytr says: Hello, any good churches in the Sacto, CA area, also looking in Reno NV, thanks in advance and God Bless you Smiley
January 29, 2018, 01:21:57 am Christian40 says: It will be interesting to see what happens this year Israel being 70 years as a modern nation may 14 2018
October 17, 2017, 01:25:20 am Christian40 says: It is good to type Mark is here again!  Smiley
October 16, 2017, 03:28:18 am Christian40 says: anyone else thinking that time is accelerating now? it seems im doing days in shorter time now is time being affected in some way?
September 24, 2017, 10:45:16 pm Psalm 51:17 says: The specific rule pertaining to the national anthem is found on pages A62-63 of the league rulebook. It states: “The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem. “During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.”
September 20, 2017, 04:32:32 am Christian40 says: "The most popular Hepatitis B vaccine is nothing short of a witch’s brew including aluminum, formaldehyde, yeast, amino acids, and soy. Aluminum is a known neurotoxin that destroys cellular metabolism and function. Hundreds of studies link to the ravaging effects of aluminum. The other proteins and formaldehyde serve to activate the immune system and open up the blood-brain barrier. This is NOT a good thing."
September 19, 2017, 03:59:21 am Christian40 says: bbc international did a video about there street preaching they are good witnesses
September 14, 2017, 08:06:04 am Psalm 51:17 says: bro Mark Hunter on YT has some good, edifying stuff too.
September 14, 2017, 04:31:26 am Christian40 says: i have thought that i'm reaping from past sins then my life has been impacted in ways from having non believers in my ancestry.
September 11, 2017, 06:59:33 am Psalm 51:17 says: The law of reaping and sowing. It's amazing how God's mercy and longsuffering has hovered over America so long. (ie, the infrastructure is very bad here b/c for many years, they were grossly underspent on. 1st Tim 6:10, the god of materialism has its roots firmly in the West) And remember once upon a time ago when shacking up b/w straight couples drew shock awe?

Exodus 20:5  Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
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Author Topic: Pre-trib rapture and antichrist  (Read 9288 times)
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« Reply #60 on: May 12, 2013, 02:55:04 pm »

The Holy Spirit does not leave the Earth, the people saved After the Rapture will have to lose their heads and give a Testimony of their faith. These are the Tribulation Saints. You are still saved by faith and works during the 7 year period, as if you take the Mark, you are done no matter what you do, hence an act of works. When the Lord returns the only Christians on planet will be the remnant of Israel that is saved as the rest of the planet will be utterly uninhabitable. 

The Lord returns with ALL of his Saints that were raptured before the start of the Tribulation, the Trib Saints are resurrected AFTER the Tribulation. They are the ones whose souls are under the Temple during the Tribulation.

The fact that a trumpet is blown at the Rapture has no connection to the 7 trumpet judgments in Revelation. Paul wrote his epistle  around 30 years before John was given the vision of Revelation. You really cannot link the 2 together at it just doesn’t fit. Only 2 people were given that vision, Daniel who was told to lock it up, and John who was told to write it down. So clearly the Trumpet sound is something else. Since the whole rapture of the Church is compared to a wedding, and there were a lot of trumpet blasts during the whole ceremony. When the Husband came for his bride there were trumpets blown. It is a wedding, the Lord, Jesus comes for his Bride, the Church, than we go to a 7 year feast, instead of 7 days in the bridal chamber. He is making us mansions and all.. The trumpets has nothing to do with the 7 trumpet judgment.

The trumpet and the rapture is in no way linked to the Tribulation. Just read Jesus's own words on it.

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

There will not be any fields to work, the Judgments will destroy all of them.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

there will not be any mills, all gone. These people are described as doing normal everyday stuff, no one will be doing that during the Tribulation.

42 ¶ Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Really? Heck that’s easy to determine after the Trib starts, that is only possible with a PRE TRIB rapture.

We know not what hour our Lord comes? Kind of like how the day of the Lord comes as a thief in the night? The coming of the Lord is the same as the day of the Lord, which is the same as the day of Christ. I have read and re-read those passages over and over recently, and the more I read them, the more I see no distinction between the day of the Lord and the coming of our Lord Jesus.

About the other passage: Half of the world would get raptured if that were a rapture verse. I personally don't believe that is the case. We know that people are gonna repopulate the earth during the Millennial Reign. I believe the "one left" is the ones that will still be here to repopulate the planet. The "one taken" is the ones that took the mark of the Beast and are put into the wine-press of the wrath of God.

(Revelation 6:17) "For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"
(Luke 21:36) " Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."
(Ephesians 6:13) "Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand."

Why would we need to pray that we be taken up in the pre-trib rapture? Merely by being saved you would be. And what is this evil day? Could it be the day of the Lord?

"Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it." (Isaiah 13:9)

"Woe unto you that desire the day of the Lord! to what end is it for you? the day of the Lord is darkness, and not light." (Amos 5:20)

"The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil." (Proverbs 16:4)

"Ye that put far away the evil day, and cause the seat of violence to come near;" (Amos 6:3)

"The great day of the Lord is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the Lord: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly." (Zephaniah 1:14)

"Alas for the day! for the day of the Lord is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come." (Joel 1:15)

Now granted, Revelation 6 is in reference to the Lamb, Jesus Christ. However:

"To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus." (1 Corinthians 5:5)

"As also ye have acknowledged us in part, that we are your rejoicing, even as ye also are our's in the day of the Lord Jesus." (2 Corinthians 1:14)

"That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand." (2 Thessalonians 2:2) (This lines up with Ephesians 6:13, where we need to take up the whole armor of God, basically to avoid deception)

We WILL be here for "the tribulation of those days", but we also WILL return with Christ at Armageddon. THERE IS ONLY ONE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST.

(2 Thessalonians 2:1) "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,"

is the same coming as:

[2 Thessalonians 2:8] "And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:"

How exactly everything plays out we don't know, and I don't think we will know until it does play out. Remember that "we see through a glass, darkly..." and that:

"For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night." (1 Thessalonians 5:2)

Thank you all and God bless Smiley

What about these...

Who is the "elect" referred to in Matthew 24, Mark 13, etc?
It is the believers in Jesus Christ. Whether they be Jew or Gentile. There are 13 occurrences of the word "elect" in the New Testament. 1 is in reference to Jesus. 1 is in reference to angels. That makes 11 occurrences in the NT apart from the one about Christ and one about angels. 4 occur in Matthew 24 and Mark 13 (for example, "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.") For the sake of argument, we'll leave those out for now. Who is being referred to in the other 7 occurrences?

Luke 18:7  And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?
Romans 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Colossians 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
Titus 1:1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
1 Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
2 John 1:1 The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth;
2 John 1:13 The children of thy elect sister greet thee. Amen.

These are believers. Jew AND Gentile.

Or this?

I'm not saying you can't see pre-trib in certain verses (because even I can see it sometimes), but the problem is that a lot of people read into verses things that aren't there or take verses out of context (such as 1 Thessalonians 5:9). Just by reading the Bible for what it is (as I said before, the Bible says what it means and means what it says), I can come to no other conclusion than that the rapture will be post-trib. However, this shouldn't be a dividing issue. One side will be wrong when it's all said and done, but by that time I won't even care.

For the argument of pre vs. post-trib, I think Scott Johnson did a pretty good study on it. He missed out on some scripture he could have used, but all in all it's pretty good. I'd recommend it.

I don't usually like talking about the rapture anymore, because it riles up unnecessary anger. My church (non-501c3) really dislikes me now because I believe in post-trib and quoted some verse to explain why I believe that (whereas they are staunch pre-trib, even 'triple rapture' proponents). I just want people to see all Biblical sides of it. If it's pre-trib, great! Praise God! If it's post-trib, still praise God! I want people to be prepared and not lose faith even if it doesn't pan out the way one might have been taught their whole life. And that goes for everything: the rapture, Antichrist, false prophet, Babylon the Great, etc.

Remember: "For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." (1 Corinthians 13:12)

In any case, this is an exciting time in history, and I'll just be happy to be there. I'm really just so happy to be able to sing that great hymn "When the roll is called up yonder... I'll be there," and know that it's true.

God bless all you brethren in Christ Jesus!
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