The Tribulation Saints are not the Church. The Trib Saints are saved AFTER the rapture of the Church. The Trib Saints will die for their testimony and have their heads cut off, or accept the MARK. The Bible is very clear on this. They are the souls that are kept under the alter until after the Trib.
I mean no disrespect, Mark, but if it's so clear, then give me verse for it. I'm sorry, but I just don't see it in there, brother. You say "Oh, it's so clear!" "Oh, the Bible CLEARLY states this!" Yet you never give verse for it. Again, I mean absolutely no disrespect, but that's what I'm seeing.
And you still haven't refuted the verses I've quoted previously, nor Matthew 13.
And again, I ask the question: How can the "tribulation saints" get saved without the Holy Spirit? I'm sorry, but Jesus died on the cross for everyone of EVERY time period. Not just the "age of grace" but for ALL. He was the Lamb slain from the
foundation of the world. It was always God's plan to have it that way. The Holy Spirit HAS to be present for a person to be saved. No matter when they get saved. You aren't saved without Him. No one is EVER saved by "works". Not back in Old Testament days, not now, and not ever. The prophets and the Jews back then weren't saved by keeping the sabbath, keeping the passover, doing this, doing that, etc. Paul points this out in I believe Romans as well as Hebrews. By the works of the law no man is justified. They were saved by their faith that God's commandments and words were truth, so they followed them.
Even not taking the mark. That is not what saves you. It is the faith to believe God's Word that saves you, not the "work" of refusing the mark. You do the "work" because of your FAITH. It's works following, not works preceding.
And to answer your question from the other thread:
You don't think God is entirely capable of doing the rapture, the resurrection, the Second Coming and the arrival of the army of heaven all within a very short time? I'm not confused, I just think pre-trib proponents tend to put God in a box. God created the universe, He can have the rapture take place moments before the battle of Armageddon. It is entirely within His abilities.
Again, nobody is unsaved by believing one way or the other. It may just be one of those things where I believe one way and you believe another. We're both saved, and one will be wrong. I want everyone to be prepared, either way.