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Pre-trib rapture and antichrist

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pavelow
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« Reply #30 on: October 14, 2011, 12:23:15 pm »

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Books,%20Tracts%20&%20Preaching/Printed%20Books/Golden/sgdb-chap_05.htm

Who Is the Antichrist?

by Pastor Lee Roberson, D.D.

 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called GOD, or that is worshipped; so that he as GOD sitteth in the temple of GOD, shewing himself that he is GOD." — II THESSALONIANS 2:3, 4

The word "Antichrist" is given to us in 1st John 2:18, "Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heart that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time."

"Anti" means against. There is coming one who is against Christ. The Word tells us that this person will reveal himself after the Holy Spirit has been taken out of the way.

"For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved." -- II Thessalonians 2:7-10

The Antichrist will be a man of great power and authority, and will be the personal agent of Satan himself. The Antichrist will be revealed in all his wonder-working power after the rapture of the saints and the taking away of the Holy Spirit. Therefore, the Antichrist will have his great period in the seven years between the rapture of the saints and the revelation of Christ, this period which is known as the Great Tribulation.
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« Reply #31 on: October 14, 2011, 12:27:29 pm »

This I could see:

 The Bible says that the antichrist will be revealed AFTER the rapture, but the Bible does not say that he won't be politically active before it.  I sincerely believe that the antichrist is already politically active.

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/End%20of%20the%20World/left_behind_at_the_rapture.htm
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« Reply #32 on: October 14, 2011, 12:48:42 pm »

Pastor Jack Hyles believes the same as Dr. Mcgee:
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Books,%20Tracts%20&%20Preaching/Printed%20Books/Dr%20Jack%20Hyles/Meet%20The%20Holy%20Spirit/holyspirit_and_the_endtime.htm


2. The rapture of the saints must take place.  2nd Thessalonians 2:7b, "Only He Who now letteth will let, until He be taken out of the way."  The work "let" here means "to hinder."  There seems to be someone hindering the mystery of iniquity.  This someone, of course, is the Holy Spirit.  He does this hindering to His people who are the salt of the earth.  Now notice the words inverse 7, "until He be taken out of the way."  This means the Holy Spirit will continue to hinder the mystery of iniquity until that day comes when He is taken out of the way.  This is the rapture when God's people are caught up to meet the Lord in the air; the dead will raise first, followed by those of us who are alive and remain.  Now notice in II Thessalonians 2:1 the words, "by our gathering together unto Him," which speak of the same event-the rapture.  Read further in 2nd Thessalonians 2:2, 3.  The Apostle says that that day, that is, the tribulation period, cannot come "except there be a falling away first." The term "falling away" is also translated "departure." This, no doubt, speaks of the rapture.
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« Reply #33 on: October 14, 2011, 01:02:37 pm »

the falling away is not the rapture. this has been addressed here: http://endtimesandcurrentevents.freesmfhosting.com/index.php/topic,3410.msg11411.html#msg11411
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« Reply #34 on: October 14, 2011, 03:36:04 pm »

Dok and Kilika, was wondering your opinion on this-

Will there be some sort of global event RIGHT BEFORE the Rev 13 beast emerges? For example, do you think something like World War 3, Global Pandemic, Global Economic Collapse, etc will happen until the man of sin shows up and acts like he has all the answers?

Also, remember that tv show "The Dead Zone" - Anthony Michael Hall played a character that got into a car accident, which left him with (witchcraft)psychic powers. It was toward the end of the series when this mysterious, young hot-shot figure appeared out of nowhere to win a Congressional seat in the northeast. It was during the campaign when people around him were mysteriously dying, and his charisma shot up him to the Vice Presidency in only 2 years. During this time, it went right under Hall's nose(even his "psychic" powers didn't leave him a hint), however, he kept having visions of an asteroid hitting the House of Congress(which made the viewer to believe that this mysterious figure would emerge as the charismatic OWG antichrist leader).
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« Reply #35 on: October 14, 2011, 03:39:43 pm »

Pastor Jack Hyles believes the same as Dr. Mcgee:
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Books,%20Tracts%20&%20Preaching/Printed%20Books/Dr%20Jack%20Hyles/Meet%20The%20Holy%20Spirit/holyspirit_and_the_endtime.htm


2. The rapture of the saints must take place.  2nd Thessalonians 2:7b, "Only He Who now letteth will let, until He be taken out of the way."  The work "let" here means "to hinder."  There seems to be someone hindering the mystery of iniquity.  This someone, of course, is the Holy Spirit.  He does this hindering to His people who are the salt of the earth.  Now notice the words inverse 7, "until He be taken out of the way."  This means the Holy Spirit will continue to hinder the mystery of iniquity until that day comes when He is taken out of the way.  This is the rapture when God's people are caught up to meet the Lord in the air; the dead will raise first, followed by those of us who are alive and remain.  Now notice in II Thessalonians 2:1 the words, "by our gathering together unto Him," which speak of the same event-the rapture.  Read further in 2nd Thessalonians 2:2, 3.  The Apostle says that that day, that is, the tribulation period, cannot come "except there be a falling away first." The term "falling away" is also translated "departure." This, no doubt, speaks of the rapture.

I'm not saying these people are heretics or anything(like I said, personally I like McGee, although I'm not a fan of Hyles), but we need to go back and stick to scripture instead of repeating what other people say. Believe me, I myself make this error every now and then. Again, not that these people are heretics, but they're not exactly infallible and are prone to error(like all of us are).

Gal 1:11  But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
Gal 1:12  For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Gal 1:13  For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:
Gal 1:14  And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
Gal 1:15  But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
Gal 1:16  To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

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« Reply #36 on: October 15, 2011, 03:48:21 am »

If there is any specific "event", I'd say it may be over Jerusalem and the "peace process" in Israel. Major fighting may break out and look like it's going to get out of control possibly. Outside of something like that, I don't think it will be any obvious event, but just a collection of events, a downward spiral into chaos if something isn't done quickly kind of sales pitch.
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« Reply #37 on: October 15, 2011, 06:38:49 am »

Dok and Kilika, was wondering your opinion on this-

Will there be some sort of global event RIGHT BEFORE the Rev 13 beast emerges? For example, do you think something like World War 3, Global Pandemic, Global Economic Collapse, etc will happen until the man of sin shows up and acts like he has all the answers?

Also, remember that tv show "The Dead Zone" - Anthony Michael Hall played a character that got into a car accident, which left him with (witchcraft)psychic powers. It was toward the end of the series when this mysterious, young hot-shot figure appeared out of nowhere to win a Congressional seat in the northeast. It was during the campaign when people around him were mysteriously dying, and his charisma shot up him to the Vice Presidency in only 2 years. During this time, it went right under Hall's nose(even his "psychic" powers didn't leave him a hint), however, he kept having visions of an asteroid hitting the House of Congress(which made the viewer to believe that this mysterious figure would emerge as the charismatic OWG antichrist leader).

we are living it right now, just read the news.  Huh All the signs are happening right now as we speak. Its like we are on the rim of a whirl pool, you can look down and see what is coming and all the signs that point to it.

Quote
101 Last Days Prophecies UPDATED!

"Behold, the former things have come to pass, And new things I declare; Before they spring forth I tell you of them." (Isaiah 42:9)

"Remember the former things of old, For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like Me, Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things that are not yet done, Saying, 'My counsel shall stand, And I will do all My pleasure'."
(Isaiah 46:9-10)

“Now I tell you before it comes, that when it does come to pass, you may believe that I am He."
(John 13:19)

The Bible foretells many signs that would culminate in the last days. Jesus indicated these signs would arise together as His return drew near (Matthew 24:33-34). Though many of these prophecies won’t climax until the tribulation period, our generation is the first to see every trend in place. As the final seconds of this age tick away, these events will come into even clearer focus. Keep in mind as you read through this list that these prophecies were penned 1900 to 3500 years ago! How does this relate to you? The last several pages provide the answer – you need to read them carefully.

"Birth Pangs"

FULL BOOK ONLINE UPDATED http://www.eternal-productions.org/101prophecy.html
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« Reply #38 on: October 26, 2011, 03:19:03 pm »

If there is any specific "event", I'd say it may be over Jerusalem and the "peace process" in Israel. Major fighting may break out and look like it's going to get out of control possibly. Outside of something like that, I don't think it will be any obvious event, but just a collection of events, a downward spiral into chaos if something isn't done quickly kind of sales pitch.

I've kinda always imagined the time-line like this - of course, this is pure conjecture..

1. Socio-Economic Collapse, world wide. Mass Starvation and such - due to the New World Government attempting to control things, and failing miserably.

2. After a time, a 'savior' in the secular sense of the word, arises to 'solve the problems' of the nations. This part seems self-evident, in that... who would need a savior if you aren't in peril?

3. Part of that will be a requirement of Israel and others to come to a 'peace agreement'...

Of course, the actual timing of the rapture - I have no idea. I see the reasoning behind various rapture theories, but in the end; personally, I'm going to live as though it won't happen. One thing has concerned me, is it the concept of the rapture is deceit to make Christians non-vigilant of the times, expecting that 'escape clause' to save them.

Now, that being said I lean toward it happening more so that not, but I've always been curious if we (man) is wrong at interpreting that part. I'm not saying I'm right or wrong; I just don't know in this specific case.

Of course, with so many people dying in those days, no one (living) may ever be aware that it happened. Just one day, those pesky Christians seemed to just go away...
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... knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.”  (2 Peter 3)
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« Reply #39 on: October 26, 2011, 05:29:32 pm »

Well yeah, I agree, I think some, especially those we see on the airwaves alot, have this misperception that the rapture can happen 5 minutes from now, meaning we could be out bowling somewhere, or taking a walk in the park, and *poof*. Honestly, while I'm post-trib, I'm really not 100% sure when God will take his church out. Both the pre and post tribbers have very good points, but at the same time both have their share of flaws, which is why these debates end up going into infinity(no, I'm not calling anyone out here in particular). And yes, like Dok said, the antichrist has to reveal himself FIRST, as 2nd The 2 says. So no, it's not like it will happen as I'm typing this.

Anyhow - I saw an old end times movie titled "Years of the Beast" uploaded on youtube late last night - while I don't buy into the imminent rapture/before the AC appears, I thought it was pretty well presented. Although my only gripe is that they turned the last act of the film into an "escapism" event that's not in the book of Revelation(I won't go into details here, but I think you know what I'm talking about). But overall, I thought it was pretty good. Just about everything they talked about in this 70's/early 80's movie - Martial Law, Food Shortages, Police State, Gun Control, the mother of ALL wars, New World Order, "Unity", Israel, the list goes on and on - we are seeing THESE things pass before our eyes RIGHT now(!). I mean they were NOT talking about these things THEN that we are hearing NOW.

There was also another end times rapture movie I saw after that, "Gone" - honestly, I would NOT recommend it b/c the only times they mentioned Jesus in it was at the end, and only once prior to it. It really had a New-Agey feel to it. Yes, there were talks in over warning about the end times and God's wrath to come, etc, etc. However, it was one of those "Christian" media productions where it felt like the Illuminati had their fingerprints all over it.

However, a few things was able to catch in it - 1) one of the main characters pointed out how the nation's and world's mainstream media is controlled by a few powerful men, 2) They decifered Bill Gates's name via the computer code(or whatever you call it) to 666, 3) They talked about how the "powerful elite" distracted the public with all these idol entertainment figures like movie and sports stars, 4) The 3 characters in it graduated from prestigious law schools and were only a few years away from achieving partnership in their firm(they were just acting very unclean, although one of them had a conscience bothering him, and were deceived into believing that they were being given opportunities to shape the world into a better new world order place, despite given the green light to step on everyone's toes) - the reason why I bring up #4 is b/c Kilika made a thread in the Bible Study form over "ye don't work, ye don't eat"(no, that's not the thread title, but the title is in quotes and it's recent, please look there) - we were discussing over there that there are ALOT of traps into being "career-minded", and how putting our faith in this keeps us away from the word of God. I almost immediately thought of this thread and discussion when I saw these 3 men working their way up the corporate ladder while stepping on everyone's toes. It was just WICKED.

Toward the end of this movie when the antichrist was releaved, one of the men admitted this was one of Satan's tactics to keep us away from the word of God(by putting them in these "prestigious" high paying, albeit very wicked jobs). Anyhow, like I said, I do NOT recommend this movie at all. But this were the few things that popped out at me while viewing them.

Overall, it seems like these older end times movies that brought up all these prophecies in it, we are seeing them RIGHT before our very eyes RIGHT NOW!
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« Reply #40 on: October 26, 2011, 09:39:45 pm »


Overall, it seems like these older end times movies that brought up all these prophecies in it, we are seeing them RIGHT before our very eyes RIGHT NOW!

I remember and old one, about a group of teens - that end up getting beheaded - I forget the name, but it was 70's era. Kinda had that B-Movie corniness to it, but it had a more solid message of salvation in it.

And yes, that's interesting - it would almost seem the most 'physical proof' that the Bible is in fact the true gospel; is that the secular world is step by step proving it right. Like it or not. I guess this is where we can start to see the "powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie" part, eh?
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... knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.”  (2 Peter 3)
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« Reply #41 on: October 26, 2011, 09:54:43 pm »

Quote
They decifered Bill Gates's name via the computer code(or whatever you call it) to 666

Yeah -  ACSII.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASCII (MS-DOS, the first Microsoft OS revolved around it for I/O).


http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/5639.htm

 By converting the letters of his current name to the  ASCII-values and
 adding his (III), you get the following:
      |       B  66
      |       I  73
      |       L  76
      |       L  76
      |       G  71
      |       A  65
      |       T  84
      |       E  69
      |       S  83
      |       I   1
      |       I   1
      |       I   1
      |     --------------
      |        666


But that doesn't totally pan out - the "I" is not a value of 1, even 'one' the number, is not a value of one.

The more.. interesting thing I have found in regards to the 'number' - is that that sixth letter of the hebrew alphabet is 'W' - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waw_%28letter%29

So if one was to convert the ever popular 'WWW' into numeric value in Hebrew, you'd end up with '666'. I've always considered that part of the 'beast' revelations eludes to is an 'it' - a concept, or a system and not a man.

But that kind of plays into a 'mockery' of the trinity..

The Father: Satan
The Son: False Prophet (Man)
The Holy Spirit: a 'system'

Makes sense to me that the mockery and it's parts would have to be the closest equivalent possible..
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... knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.”  (2 Peter 3)
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« Reply #42 on: October 27, 2011, 03:50:29 am »

I've considerd the "www" thing too. And I think it's more than just a coincidence.

As it says, "for it is the number of a man..." And that has had me thinking about it for a long time. It fits. What is the basis for computers and electronics? 1's and 0's. Numbers of men, and they form the basis for the www, as well as all items that make up the beast digital system.
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« Reply #43 on: October 27, 2011, 10:25:23 am »

I've considerd the "www" thing too. And I think it's more than just a coincidence.

As it says, "for it is the number of a man..." And that has had me thinking about it for a long time. It fits. What is the basis for computers and electronics? 1's and 0's. Numbers of men, and they form the basis for the www, as well as all items that make up the beast digital system.

And this will be the 'beast' that controls buying and selling... it's the only one in material terms; that is capable of even doing that.

I'm no mathematical genuis, by any means, but also '666' is a 'triangular number' - meaning it can be looked at in 3 different ways, or I guess 'form a triangle' - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangular_numbers

Also - most of the early computers; unlike today's computers that use 8 bits - they used 6 bits..

First used on the IBM 701 in the early 1950's, and used on essentially all machines designed prior to 1965. The predominance of word sizes that are a multiple of 6 on machines designed in this era is completely explained by the dominance of 6 bit bytes! In early usage, the term byte was never used! Most early machines that supported 6-bit things either called them characters or digits.

It's interesting - because from a number of angles we can see what it leads to - yet I don't think we've seen all of the symbolism pan out on this - just yet.



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... knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.”  (2 Peter 3)
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« Reply #44 on: October 27, 2011, 11:08:15 am »

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« Reply #45 on: October 27, 2011, 01:29:53 pm »

That's true, 8 bits equals 1 byte. That's 1's and 0's stuff, the very basis of computing. Actually, I didn't know about the early 6-bit thing. Interesting.

666 or 999, the same thing, eh Herman!
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« Reply #46 on: October 27, 2011, 04:15:50 pm »

6 is the same whether 6-bit or 8-bit.
0   0   0   1  1   0          0     0   0  0   0   1  1   0
__ __ __ __ __ __       __   __ __ __ __ __ __ __
32 16  8  4   2   1        128  64 32 16  8   4  2   1


------------------
Thus the 666 on bar-codes = 11 11 11

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« Reply #47 on: October 27, 2011, 05:31:05 pm »

6 is the same whether 6-bit or 8-bit.
0   0   0   1  1   0          0     0   0  0   0   1  1   0
__ __ __ __ __ __       __   __ __ __ __ __ __ __
32 16  8  4   2   1        128  64 32 16  8   4  2   1


------------------
Thus the 666 on bar-codes = 11 11 11



Was just interesting tid-bit from History too - and it seems to get harder to find that each year..

Yeah - I've heard the barcode thing. I forget who had a video on that.
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... knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.”  (2 Peter 3)
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« Reply #48 on: October 28, 2011, 03:13:14 am »

Yeah, you got me peanut! I'm a hardware maintenance guy that had to have a couple programming classes to get by. While I have wrote very basic coded for a basic programming class, that's pretty much the extent of my coding experience.

I use to be able to read binary, hexadecimal, etc but that was years ago.

I've seen the barcode stuff too, in articles and video. It's been mentioned in more than one video. But I haven't seen a decent explanation, just that "oh, those aren't part of the barcode, so they don't count as numbers", etc. Mmmkay, whatever.
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« Reply #49 on: October 28, 2011, 10:52:35 pm »

Speaking of numerology, is it just me, or has everyone else noticed the number 11 has been popping up very frequently over the last couple of years? I mean not just in a few places, but just everywhere you see and go, etc, etc?
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« Reply #50 on: October 27, 2012, 12:46:28 pm »

Am listening to New Order Barbarians now(a doctor who attended a private meeting, where a Planned Parenthood Medical Director revealed all of the NWO draconian plans).

Like I said, I lean post-trib, however, at the 15 minute mark of part 6, when he said that when the new system would usher in, the "resisters" wouldn't get martyred, per se, but there would be "disappearances", and an "announcement" would be made upon the entire world when this new system would be ushered in. I almost jumped in my chair when he said that.



Pt being that this isn't the only person from the dark side saying this - 1) C. Peter Wagner, one of the leaders of the NAR, said he no longer believes in the rapture, 2) In a video presentation Bryan made(Rediculous New Age Perverted Bibles, or something like that), he showed a pseudo-Christian magazine, and showed a comment inside over how Christians would go through hard times in the "tribulation", and then get saved after that. Uhm...aren't believers ALREADY SAVED? 3) New Age leaders like Benjamine Creme and Barbara Marx Hubbard have talked about "disappearances" when their New Age "Christ" makes his emergence. 4) Steve Jackson's INWO card game has a "Tape Runs Out" card(which is said to be the rapture card - even New Ager David Icke, I think, says so as well)

Again, I'm not convinced, still, but it's not these wolves in sheep's clothing like John MacArthur, Hal Lindsey, Chuck Missler, Charles Stanley, John Hagee, etc pushing the pre-trib rapture. It's the ENEMIES on the DARK SIDE saying it'll happen.
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« Reply #51 on: October 27, 2012, 01:32:22 pm »

uhm, the Bible says it is going to happen, just Like the Bible says Israel was to come back in 1948. it happened, the Rapture will happen just as the BIBLE says so. not because some man says so. Even Satan believes
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« Reply #52 on: October 27, 2012, 05:55:22 pm »

uhm, the Bible says it is going to happen, just Like the Bible says Israel was to come back in 1948. it happened, the Rapture will happen just as the BIBLE says so. not because some man says so. Even Satan believes


Well yeah, that was the pt I was trying to make - when he was going through every little detail through the 6 parts of the NWO draconian plans, lots of bible scriptures in the NT end times, Daniel, and the OT major prophets like Isaiah came to mind. While it sounded disheartening over what's been going on, at the same time Christians should rejoice that the prophecies in scripture are coming to pass.

With that being said, this is why I jumped out of my chair when toward the end, he said there was already an "announcement" planned to explain the "disappearances" when the new system gets ushered in. And this confirms with what other enemies with darkness have said. Maybe I need to go search the scriptures on the pre-trib view.

BTW - the very first KJV I read was from American Bible Society(which is partnered with the Catholics) - they have verses referencing one another if they deal with the same topic. For example, with end times stuff, they will link each scripture in footnotes b/w Rev, Daniel, Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 17 and 21, 1st The 4:13-18, and 2nd The 2...and somehow they came up with a post-trib view. Again, the ABS is partnered with the Catholics, so I guess you can throw them in line with the rest of the dark forces that either are expecting "disappearances" or telling everyone Christians will go through the tribulation.
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« Reply #53 on: October 27, 2012, 10:25:17 pm »


Again, I'm not convinced, still, but it's not these wolves in sheep's clothing like John MacArthur, Hal Lindsey, Chuck Missler, Charles Stanley, John Hagee, etc pushing the pre-trib rapture. It's the ENEMIES on the DARK SIDE saying it'll happen.

Well there are wolves out there saying that there will be a post-trib rapture too so it comes down to what the KJV says.
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« Reply #54 on: January 14, 2013, 10:35:45 am »

Don't want to dig up this thread again, but I'll admit I'm starting to lean pre-trib. Don't have time now to get in all of the scriptures, but will say with further studying of the scriptures, I see a pre-trib rapture being possible.

Also notice too - do they teach pre-trib(or even futurist prophecies) at seminaries nowdays? Nope. Or how about the modern-day church? Not really. And doesn't the world mock at pre-trib/pre-mill? Yep.(especially the "truth" movement) Well, good 'ole Dave McPherson(whom we discussed here recently) went around bible seminaries warning how pre-trib is a hoax...thank you Dave b/c bible colleges rarely teach this anymore!

So does that make me part of the "falling away" now? J/k...really, Jesus Christ gave his promises to Christians in particular in the book of John.
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« Reply #55 on: January 14, 2013, 11:38:10 pm »

Don't want to dig up this thread again, but I'll admit I'm starting to lean pre-trib. Don't have time now to get in all of the scriptures, but will say with further studying of the scriptures, I see a pre-trib rapture being possible.

i've been reading your posts and i could see you being challenged before and i was confident that you would see that the pre-trib rapture view is right. Smiley

Also notice too - do they teach pre-trib(or even futurist prophecies) at seminaries nowdays? Nope. Or how about the modern-day church? Not really. And doesn't the world mock at pre-trib/pre-mill? Yep.(especially the "truth" movement) Well, good 'ole Dave McPherson(whom we discussed here recently) went around bible seminaries warning how pre-trib is a hoax...thank you Dave b/c bible colleges rarely teach this anymore!

i'm not familiar with Dave McPherson thanks for marking him out yes there are preachers out there working very hard to breakdown true doctrines and breakdown the next generation of Pastors, the Lord will reward them according to their false works.

So does that make me part of the "falling away" now? J/k...really, Jesus Christ gave his promises to Christians in particular in the book of John.

your not falling away your standing with us and with God's word!
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« Reply #56 on: January 15, 2013, 04:04:11 am »

The same ole' problem; there is no one set "rapture", yet people still try to make it that way.

If I'm anything, it's not "pre-trib". That's a false doctrine, sorry. People don't want to face the fact that we WILL face tribulation. And there will be a rapture, but it's not what they claim. There is more than one "rapture". It's easy for people to side with pre-trib because they don't want to face the coming tribulation, and many don't believe they will be safe during any tribulation, so they fear it and make up all kinds of stories to tell people so they won't freak out.

Point blank; believers are saved. So who cares if there is a rapture, tribulation or whatever? What's the point? The point is to cause divisions by telling lies to make people think they don't have to worry about it seeing they will be whisked away to safety!

Seriously, if churchianity is pushing pre-trib, beware, because it's a lie.

Quit listening to these false prophets and just read the scriptures. It's right there.

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love." 1 John 4:18 (KJB)

What part of these verses do people not understand?...(especially the whole chapter of John 17)

"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." John 16:33 (KJB)

"While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled." John 17:12 (KJB)

"I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil." John 17:15 (KJB)
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« Reply #57 on: January 15, 2013, 04:21:01 am »

thats not quite correct, there is 1 rapture that takes place after the appearance of the antichrist, and than there is 1 resurrection that takes place after the Lord returns to Earth and then there is the 2nd resurrection that takes place at the White Throne Judgment. All 3 of these are very easily found in the Bible. The resurrection after the Lord returns is not a rapture event as it only affects the people who died during the Great Tribulation. The Rapture which happens before, affects those who are alive and dead and are changed. And of course the final one affects everyone but not everyone is changed.
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« Reply #58 on: January 15, 2013, 04:40:37 am »

Thus I said there is more than one. Call it what you want, seeing the word isn't in scripture anyway, being an invention of churchianity. It's a moot argument. There is clearly more than one event. The lie is that there is a single "rapture" event before things get bad. I say bull, there is no pre-trib "rapture" where believers are pulled from the "fire" before it starts burning. Here's another one...

"And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It [is] my people: and they shall say, The LORD [is] my God." Zechariah 13:9 (KJB)

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« Reply #59 on: January 15, 2013, 04:52:47 am »

I pose this question...

If there is a "rapture" that takes believers out of the world before the tribulation period, then why did Jesus pray to the Father that He wouldn't take them out of the world, but rather keep them from the evil?
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