The PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE DOCTRINE is a HOAX ?

[Psalm 51:17]

Again, I'm post-trib, but just wanted to point out that it seems like people in the occult, in particular pseudo-Christian wolves, are against the rapture. C. Peter Wagner(the leader of the NAR) said he used to believe in it(but now believes in kingdom building on earth). While Alex Jones has spoken out against it, he regularly has David Icke on(who put the Steve Jackson INWO rapture game card right behind the "messiah" game card, meaning he probably thinks there will be a mass disappearance shortly after the antichrist's arrival).

Bill Howard, a high level Theosophist, said the NWO has already prepared an "explanation" for all of these "mass disappearances". Charles Stanley is pre-trib, however, he promotes St. Augustine(a Roman Catholic who came up with this A-Mill heretical escatology teaching which says there's no futurism tribulation/antichrist at the end).

Again, I'm still trying to find sources where it says the Freemasons/Vatican/occult came up with pre-trib. I'm firmly post-trib, but again, I really don't like it when people like Dave McPherson puts all these lies to prove post-trib, b/c all it does is hurt the credibility of this.

[Kilika]

Another way to look at it is, if you prove it one way or another, what then?

What is gained other than that specific knowledge, knowledge which God would have given eventually anyway? Will knowing it save somebody? Does it change salvation? Nope, it surely doesn't do that. How we are saved remains the same, so then what is the edification of proving the chronology of the rapture?

I understand it plays a part in the timeline, meaning it must be before that, and can't be after such, etc. but it's just one point of many events over time on that line.

[pavelow]

Again, I'm post-trib, but just wanted to point out that it seems like people in the occult, in particular pseudo-Christian wolves, are against the rapture. C. Peter Wagner(the leader of the NAR) said he used to believe in it(but now believes in kingdom building on earth). While Alex Jones has spoken out against it, he regularly has David Icke on(who put the Steve Jackson INWO rapture game card right behind the "messiah" game card, meaning he probably thinks there will be a mass disappearance shortly after the antichrist's arrival).

Bill Howard, a high level Theosophist, said the NWO has already prepared an "explanation" for all of these "mass disappearances". Charles Stanley is pre-trib, however, he promotes St. Augustine(a Roman Catholic who came up with this A-Mill heretical escatology teaching which says there's no futurism tribulation/antichrist at the end).

Again, I'm still trying to find sources where it says the Freemasons/Vatican/occult came up with pre-trib. I'm firmly post-trib, but again, I really don't like it when people like Dave McPherson puts all these lies to prove post-trib, b/c all it does is hurt the credibility of this.

BA2...you are so pre-trib it isn't funny! LOL!

[Kilika]

You know, I'm actually glad that we won't be able to say in the end, "I told you so" like a little kid! Because you know tons of us would be doing it. Thank you Jesus.

But seriously, I do hope that we will remember when we get the answers, that we had wondered about a given thing. We all have our oqn questions we would like answered. But it may be that when we are changed, we won't remember what we were curious about and wanted to know. I think we will just change and then know, having no knowledge of what we didn't know before.

How neat would it be if we just each sat down with God and he started from the beginning and told us, like a bedtime story. Part of the excitement of learning is anticipating what is next, and seeing how what we learn ties together.

It's a thought.

[Christian40]

The Rapture will be a “Surprise”

“Watch therefore: for ye know what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.” Matthew 24:42-44.

We see from this that when Christ comes back it will be, when we are not expecting Him. He will come as a thief comes. A thief does not announce his coming. He comes for a certain purpose. He does not take everything there is in the house. He takes only the precious things. The jewels, the gold, the silver and fine wearing apparel. He does not come to stay. As soon as he secures what he is after he departs. So Jesus at the Rapture will come and take away the saints only. The thief leaves much more than he takes. He leaves the house and the furniture and the household utensils. So the Lord at the Rapture will leave the wicked and the great mass of the heathen behind, for those who will be taken will be comparatively few.

The Rapture will be “Elective”

It will not only seperate the saints from unbelievers, but it will seperate husbands from wives,   brothers from sisters, friends from friends. “I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.” Luke 17:34-36. The words “men” and “women” in this passage are in italics. That means that they are not in the original, and so the passage should read there shall be “two in one bed,” husband and wife, or two brothers, or two sisters, or two friends. Two in “bed' indicates night; two grinding at the mill, morning or evening; two in the field mid-day. This shows that the Rapture will happen all over the earth at the same time, or as the Apostle describes it, in a “moment” or the “twinkling of an eye.”
“As the lightening cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be” Matthew 24:27 is the way Jesus puts it.

The “Rapture” will be the most startling “event” of this Age and Dispensation. As it is to occur in the “twinkling of an eye” and all over the earth at the same time, that part of the world that is not asleep will witness the event. As to the “Shout of the Lord” the “Voice of the Archangel” and the “Trump of God” we do not know whether their sound will be heard and distinguished by others than the “dead in Christ” and the “living saints” We know that one day the Father spoke to Christ in a voice that He understood, but the people who stood mistook it for “thunder”. John 12:28-29. If the dead slip out of their places of sepulchre without disturbing them, the First Resurrection will be secret and probably unknown to the world, but it will not be so with the “Living Saints” who are translated. If it is night on our side of the globe when the Rapture occurs the community will wake up in the morning to find all the real Christians gone, disappeared in the night.

If it be day, the “EVENT” will be startling. If it be at a pleasant time of the year, the boats, and cars, and parks will be filled with pleasure seekers. If it be in the midst of the week, and during the business hours of the day, the shops and stores will be filled with shoppers and the mills with toilers, and the streets of the cities lined with men and women and children on pleasure and business bent. Suddenly a noise from heaven will be heard like a great peal of thunder. The people will rush to doors and windows, and those on the streets and in the fields will look up to see what has happened. To the vast majority it will be but a startling and alarming sound, but to many it will be the “Voice of the Lord”

But when the people recover from their surprised and affrighted condition they will discover that a great many people missing, and that the missing were the best people in the community. At first the whole thing will be a Mystery, unto some one who had heard or read about the “Rapture of the Saints” realizing what has happened, will explain the situation.

But one of the surprises of that day will be that so many professing Christians, and among them many ministers and Christian workers, will be left behind, while some who were not known to be Christians will be missing. For a few days the excitement will be intense. Then the people will settle down to the inevitable. With the exception of a few who will repent and turn to God, the mass of the people will become more hardened and wicked than before, and some who lost loved ones will be embittered. As the Church will have gone back the Salt of the earth, been taken out, there will be nothing to prevent the rapid degeneration and “Moral Putrefaction” of those who are left and sin and iniquity and all manner of crime and worldliness will increase and pave the way for the manifestation of Antichrist, under whose administration the world will rapidly ripen for judgment.

Rightly Dividing The Word

By Clarence Larkin (1921)

[Christian40]

Who was Clarence Larkin?

Biography

Clarence was born on October 28, 1850, in Chester, Delaware County, Pennsylvania. He experienced conversion at the age of 19. He then got a job in a bank. When he was 21 years old, he left the bank and went to college, graduating as a mechanical engineer. He continued as a professional draftsman for a while, then he became a teacher of the blind. This last endeavor cultivated his descriptive faculties, while his drafter's training influenced his artistic style. Later, failing health compelled him to give up his teaching career. After a prolonged rest, he became a manufacturer. When he was converted he had become a member of the Episcopal Church, but in 1882, at the age of 32, he became a Baptist and was ordained as a Baptist minister two years later. He went directly from business into the ministry. Larkin's first pastorate was at Kennett Square, Pennsylvania; his second was at Fox Chase, Pennsylvania, where he remained for 20 years. His study of the Scriptures, with the help of some books that fell into his hands, led him to adopt many of the tenets of the premillennialist theology that was gaining favor in conservative Protestant circles in the Gilded Age. He began to make large wall charts, which he titled "Prophetic Truth," for use in the pulpit. These led to invitations to teach elsewhere. During this time he published a number of prophetical charts, which were widely circulated and contributed articles for the Sunday-School Times. In 1918, he completed Dispensational Truth, but high demand for the work led him to produce a greatly expanded edition of 1920.

Notable Works

Larkin's major publications were Dispensational Truth (or God's Plan and Purpose in the Ages), Rightly Dividing the Word, The Book of Daniel, Spirit World, Second Coming of Christ, and A Medicine Chest for Christian Practitioners, a Handbook on Evangelism.[1]

Dispensational Truth (or God's Plan and Purpose in the Ages), contains dozens of charts and hundreds of pages of descriptive matter. He spent three years designing and drawing the charts and preparing the text, which remains in print. It is a thoroughgoing defense of premillennialist dispensationalism that draws on the major themes found in the works of figures like C.I. Scofield, William Eugene Blackstone, and John Nelson Darby.

Because ‘Dispensational Truth’ had a large and wide circulation, the first edition was soon exhausted. It was followed by a second edition, and then, realizing that the book was of permanent value, Larkin revised it and expanded it, printing it in its present form of over 300 pages. Larkin followed this with other books: Rightly Dividing the Word, The Book of Daniel, Spirit World, Second Coming of Christ, and A Medicine Chest for Christian Practitioners, a handbook on evangelism.

Like C. I. Scofield, he postulated seven separate dispensations—the current being the "Dispensation of Grace," "Church Dispensation," "Ecclesiastical Dispensation," or "Parenthetical Dispensation." This position held that the church age filled a "gap" in the timeline of biblical prophecy.

Later Years

Larkin, a kind and gentle man, deplored the tendency of writers to say uncharitable things about each other, so he earnestly sought to avoid criticisms and to satisfy himself with simply presenting his understanding of the Scriptures. During the last five years of his life, the demand for Larkin's books made it necessary for him to give up the pastorate and devote his full time to writing. He died on January 24, 1924.

From:
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Clarence_Larkin

[akfools]

Rightly Dividing the Revelation - and Debunking the Pretrib Rapture Hoax
http://www.sermonaudio.com/playpopup.asp?SID=212101513481

[Christian40]

These verses "jumped out" at me today:

Romans 2:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

"Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil"

So Christians dont get Tribulation according to this.

If you want a Post-Trib Rapture that is your choice. As for me i will pray to the Lord Jesus Christ that i get a Pre-Trib Rapture!

[Kilika]

So Christians dont get Tribulation according to this.

On the contrary...

"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." John 16:33 (KJB)

[Christian40]

Okay it looks like we have run into an alleged contradiction. (Any atheists reading this are smiling) And this:

2 Thessalonians 1:
2 Grace unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because that your faith groweth exceedingly, and the charity of every one of you all toward each other aboundeth;
4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense TRIBULATION to them that trouble you;
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,    8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

So how shall we explain this?

[Mark]

Okay it looks like we have run into an alleged contradiction. (Any atheists reading this are smiling) And this:

2 Thessalonians 1:
2 Grace unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because that your faith groweth exceedingly, and the charity of every one of you all toward each other aboundeth;
4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense TRIBULATION to them that trouble you;
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,    8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

So how shall we explain this?

Rev 3:10   Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. 

[Psalm 51:17]

We

Will

All

Find

Out

Very

Very

Soon

 

[Christian40]

Okay i had this thought today:

Matthew 6:
9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

And some charts in relation to the Rapture:

The Resurrections and Judgments:



The Second Coming:



The Church:



The Church and the Kingdom:



The Seven Thousand Years Of Human History:



http://www.preservedwords.com/charts.htm

[akfools]

Ok, not to be rude Christian40 but that has got to be one of the most confusing rapture charts I have ever seen in my life.
It almost blinds me with confusion

[Christian40]

i dont think they are that confusing

They show a great depth of understanding to me

[akfools]

I just noticed there are more than just one.

[Mark]

The charts aren't confusing at all and are very classical.

[Kilika]

Yeah, classical, but still visually chaotic. I got a degree in multimedia and know a little bit about how to arrange text and graphics, and I can tell you that chart system is a mess, and has stuff on there that isn't even biblical. Sorry, I agree, it's confusion, and a personal interpretation.

Scripture is all a person needs really. These charts are open to interpretation and usually they present a pre-trib rapture doctrine as this one does. It's classic to use these charts to back pre-trib, because these things are so confusing for the less educated about scripture, the babes in Christ, that it really serves no purpose other than to confuse people because they can't make sense of it anyway.

Not exactly edifying. Stick to trusting the Spirit to teach you from scripture.

[Mark]

i can follow them just fine.   

[Kilika]

I have no doubt! 

But seriously, they can serve a purpose, but just feel personally, that they tend to put people off more than anything, thus not very edifying, because if nothing else, it is a matter of interpretion how it's set up, or at least much of it. It's just better to stick with scripture only, and leave the pretty pictures to the world.

"Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me." John 5:39 (KJB)

[akfools]

Charts like this make no sense when sticking to scripture only. 

[Psalm 51:17]

I agree with Kilika, these charts just don't interest me either - yeah, I think they try to mean well, but in the end, it just seems very muddled.

I used to watch John Hagee(before I got acquinted with various Christian end times message forums and PPFs), and he would put up a big chart in his preachings with LOTS of stuff. At the time, they were pretty interesting to look at, but in the end, it just gave this "Huh?" head-scratcher reaction. Yeah, I know Hagee is a wolf, but I didn't know at the time.

[Jim]

Here is another pre-tribber chart I came across.  





http://www.av-1611.com/

[Jim]

If we were to go through the tribulation why would we be concerned with taking flight on the sabbath day?

Mat 24:20         But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

[Jim]

In reference to the chart below, it says  Hebrews through Revelation is not for us but for our learning ,prophecy/faith by sight vs  Acts through Philemon directly to us for our learning faith not by site during the age of grace.

 Then why does Heb 11:1 contain a verse saying:Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. if it is written to those during the prophecy by site dispensation?

[Christian40]

With that chart above i find the colors hard to fathom

If we were to go through the tribulation why would we be concerned with taking flight on the sabbath day?

Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

Because verse 16 before it says:

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

The Lord Jesus is talking to Jews who understand the Sabbath Day and also the Sabbath Day is reintroduced under the Antichrist and Roman Catholicism.

In reference to the chart below, it says Hebrews through Revelation is not for us but for our learning, prophecy/faith by sight vs  Acts through Philemon directly to us for our learning faith not by site during the age of grace.

Then why does Heb 11:1 contain a verse saying: Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. if it is written to those during the prophecy by site dispensation?

I dont understand what you are saying

[Mark]

In reference to the chart below, it says  Hebrews through Revelation is not for us but for our learning

2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Anything that says is not for us about any scripture should be avoided at all costs. Right there is a major warning flag. God says ALL scripture is profitable. Anyone or anything that says dont read this or study this or avoid this book for any reason that person should be avoided at all costs.

Just reading the book of the Revelation grants a special blessing,

Rev 1:3 Blessed [is] he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time [is] at hand.

why wouldnt you read it?

[Jim]

I agree

[Jim]

This is what that chart teaches.This is dispensationalism.  I keep running into this.





Satan can mess you up with modern versions of the bible. He can also mess you up with the King James Bible. He can? You better believe me on that thought! He does it with those who are in religion, tradition,  and major denominations who claim they are defenders of the old beloved King James Bible. Don't believe me?

Go to a major water dunker church that says to everyone that WE ARE KJV ONLY  and set and listen to the service and listen to what is said from the pulpit.  If you are not messed up then you should be able to see that they are all messed up. However, I am not knocking them. In their weakness of not right division, they are fully persuaded in their own minds, so judge them not.  The same blood that bought  the forgiveness of all sins,  also paid for their sins.  They just do not understand it.  Maybe in time, before leaving this world, one day, they will get it.  Until then,  for them of course, it is religious services, wrong division, and also they'll have  1 John 1:9 (MISS APPLIED OF COURSE).

How to wrongly divide

Wrongly Dividing the scriptures can include PICK & CHOSE, dividing the Bible in to OT & NT, saying GRACE is a COVENANT, claiming that all that are saved are the REPLACEMENTS for ISRAEL,  or claim they are SPIRITUAL ISRAEL,  or claiming that Paul,  Peter,  James, and John all preached the same things to everyone of us.

And that is just for starters.  Loss of salvation,  once in grace, baptismal regeneration, confessions, preisthood of the saints, prosperity gospel, signs and wonders, etc. Any time you try to apply  scripture to yourself,  or others around you which is not directly written to you,  that is misapplication of scripture,  and is not handling the Word honestly.  

The intentions and motivation may seem wright, but the result is not edifying of the Saints, and it is robbery.  If you are a minister and do not see the simplicity that is in Christ by the preaching of Paul's Gospel, which sets people free, and does not place them under bondage to get their money, or set them in to a for of rules by man, religion, traditions of men, and denominationalism,  then you need to STOP PREACHING. At least until God opens your eyes to the truth in His word(Romans thru Philemon).

How to rightly divide

Like stated above, there are many who profess a lot of things, and one is that they all claim to Rightly Divide their Bibles. You can have the wrong bibles, and know how to Rightly Divide,  and it will benefit you very little. You can have the right Bible, and not know how to Rightly Divide, and it too will benefit you very little. If you do not wish to learn Right Division, do me a big favor,  just believe on the Lord Jesus and thou salt be saved. When He comes to catch away the Saints, well then..you'll know what I am going on about now. Won;t help you then, but hey...at least you'll be in the presence of the Lord!

Right Division is to reckon which scriptures are written directly to you and for you. They after locating them, study them and saturate your mind and soul with the doctrine that instilled in them which is in the Bible for your growth and learning.  Then, in time,  putting those verses into application in your daily life.  Where are those verses that are for us here and now?  What?  Can't find them?  Sure you can. Got a King James Bible? If not, go get one. If so, great, then start looking through Romans through the book of Philemon.

 Best thing to do is just read the book of Romans. Do not jump around and pick and choose in the Bible. Start with Romans 1:1 and read at least a verse or two each day. Maybe 10 or 12. Ponder that day on what you read. Not 10 chapters per day. Think QUALITY not QUANITY. God is not in a hurry, so why should we be in a hurry? That is man. That is religion. That is satan. God wants nurished, mature, full grown Saints. He has a lot of spiritual babes today! What are you?

The Bible is typically divided into two parts, Old Testament, and New Testament. There is a third part there, but not always noticed. Pauls writting in Romans  Philemon is based on mainly information Paul recieved via the Revelation of the Mystery which was lept secret since the world began. This information was not in the Prophecies in the ancient world. Nobody got that information. It was kept in the God head. God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit knew all about it all the time, but never revealed it till the appointed time. Totally caught satan and his followers by surprise.


Genesis - Acts  - TIME PAST - is for your learning, but not written to you!

Ephesians 2:2 "Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the
children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were
by nature the children of wrath, even as others."

Ephesians 2:11-12 "Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision
in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise,
having no hope, and without God in the world:"



Romans - BUT NOW - Philemon is for your learning, and is written directly to you!

Ephesians 2:13 "But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ."



Hebrews - AGES TO COME - Revelation is for your learning, but not written to you!

Ephesians 2:7 "That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus."


    

 Times Past/But Now/Ages to Come

Our King James Bible is traditionally divided into two parts, the OldTestament, and the New Testament,
by man, and also by his religion. However, after one might read and notice what is located in the Book
of Ephesians Chapter 2 and verses 7-13. There it is noted to us, that there are three parts to time itself
which is mentioned in scripture. Past, Present, and Future. Past = "Times Past", Present = "But Now",
and Future = "Ages to Come".

With this now noted, do you want want to divide the Word of God the way Man does, or rather, would you want to divide it in respect to the way Time was divided by the Apostle Paul? Note, that Paul only wrote that which he was told to write by the Lord Jesus Christ, and it was to the Body of Christ for the edifcation of the Saints, which we are, that is, if you have not believed in vain, and have your sins forgiven you, and you are accepted in the Beloved.

 

Ephesians 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

Ephesians 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

          Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

 
Times Past
 Book of Genesis through the Book of Acts. In Genesis God Creates Man. Man falls.
Man then rebels. Fallen Angels and women are procreating and there are born giants. Man is totally
in a fallen and in a depraved state. God sees one man who has not defiled himself in the practices
going on, and him and his wife, their three sons, and their wives are all that survive, and God
sends a flood to destroy the whole Earth by water.

After the flood, man becomes rebellious once more and there is a "ONE" system in place. Instead of replenishing the whole earth, they rebel and stay together, ONE people, ONE language, ONE speach, ONE goverment, ONE money, ONE rules,
ONE rights, ONE religion, and ONE ruler. Here we see the dispersment of them in to all the whole Earth,
and we also see the creation of all of the different Languages and tongues. Then we see that God
calls out to himself, Abraham, and establishes some promises to him and his offspring to come,
the Jews.Then we see Issac and then Jaccob. Then time goes on until the death of Joseph in Egypt.

Then God sends Moses to lead out the Jews from bondage in Egypt. It might be notible that there are
no good dealings with Egypt in scripture. Why would God save his scriptures and bring them out
of Egypt? The rest of the Old Testament is Gods dealings with his rebellious chosen people, the
Jews. The Gospels. Matthew through John we find the earthly ministry of Jesus Christ to the nation
Israel. In the book of Acts we have the Apostle Peter and the " little flock", the fall of Israel,
and salvation going to the Gentiles by "Grace through Faith" through all the preaching and the
teaching of the Apostle Paul, who was Saul of Tarsus.

 
But Now
  Book of Romans through the Book of Philemon provides the doctrinal basis for the
present dispensation of grace, for the Body of Christ, the Church. In the dispensation of Grace,
there is no law to the believers in Christ Jesus. The best way to see this is read all of the first
chapter of the Book of Ephesians and the second chapter of the Book of Colossians.

 
Ages To Come
 Book of Hebrews through the Book of Revelation focus on the ages to come
when God will bring to fruition His purposes for both the nation Israel and the Body of Christ. The
great tribulation to come, as well as the Great White Thrown judgement are seen. The Book of
Hebrews through the Book of Revelation gives many warnings to the Jews on how to live and to act
in the times to come. It becomes a system of "IF...and...THEN", just like it was before this present
dispensation of time, the Dispensation of Grace.






 

Key to understanding Your Bible

TIME PAST

Time Past is marked by the basic characteristic of the separation between circumcision and uncircumcision. We know where circumcision came from. It began with Abraham as a sign of the covenant God made with him and his seed after him.

In Genesis 17 the Lord confirmed His covenant with Abram, changed his name to Abraham and instituted the sign of the Abrahamic Covenant-circumcision:

"And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations

"This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; EVERY MAN CHILD AMONG YOU SHALL BE CIRCUMCISED.

"And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and IT SHALL BE A TOKEN OF THE COVENANT BETWIXT ME AND YOU.

"And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

"He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, MUST NEEDS BE CIRCUMCISED: AND MY COVENANT SHALL BE IN YOUR FLESH FOR AN EVERLASTING COVENANT.

"AND THE UNCIRCUMCISED MAN CHILD WHOSE FLESH OF HIS FORESKIN IS NOT CIRCUMCISED, THAT SOUL SHALL BE CUT OFF FROM HIS PEOPLE; HE HATH BROKEN MY COVENANT" (Genesis 17:9-14).

Thus "circumcision in the flesh made by hands," was a sign of the special status given to the seed of Abraham by God. It was an outward sign of the spiritual privilege God had given to them and was a required mark of their identity and covenant privileges.

So the division between the circumcision and the uncircumcision began in the book of Genesis. It was there, with Abraham, that God began to erect "the middle wall of partition" between Jew and Gentile by giving to Abraham and his seed circumcision as "the sign of the covenant." In Genesis 22:17,18 God states His purpose in that covenant and in thus separating the nation Israel from all other nations of the earth:

"That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;

"And IN THY SEED SHALL ALL THE NATIONS OF THE EARTH BE BLESSED; because thou has obeyed by voice."

Numbers 23:9 declares concerning Israel's special status:

"... LO, THE PEOPLE SHALL DWELL ALONE, AND SHALL NOT BE RECKONED AMONG THE NATIONS."

God not only erected this "middle wall," He also reinforced it by the giving of the law through Moses:

"Behold, I have taught you statutes and judgments, even as the Lord my God commanded me, that ye should do so in the land whither ye go to possess it.

"Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.

"FOR WHAT NATION IS THERE SO GREAT, WHO HATH GOD SO NIGH UNTO THEM, as the Lord our God is in all things that we call upon him for?

"And WHAT NATION IS THERE SO GREAT, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day" (Deuteronomy 4:5-8).

We see from this that what is generally referred to as the "Old Testament" is in fact part of Time Past. But when does the change occur? When do we move into the But Now status? And what about the earthly ministry of the Lord Jesus Christ?

Paul sheds real light on this latter question when he writes:

"Now I say that JESUS CHRIST WAS A MINISTER OF THE CIRCUMCISION for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers" (Romans 15:.

Note well that the character of our Lord's earthly ministry is defined as His being "a minister of the circumcision." Thus we learn that the period covered by the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John is in fact part of Time Past. The distinction between the circumcision and the uncircumcision still formed the basis of God's dealings with men at that time.

There is no way one can read the records of our Lord's earthly ministry and fail to see this basic fact. For example, in His first great commission to His Apostles, He declares:

"These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, GO NOT INTO THE WAY OF THE GENTILES, AND INTO ANY CITY OF THE SAMARITANS ENTER YE NOT:

"BUT GO RATHER TO THE LOST SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL" (Matthew 10:5,6).

Later when they besought Him to work a miracle for a Gentile woman, He pointedly told them:

"I AM NOT SENT BUT UNTO THE LOST SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL" (Matthew 15:24).

Further, John 4:22 records His words to the woman at the well in Samaria:

"Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: FOR SALVATION IS OF THE JEWS."

Too often such passages are simply ignored- no doubt because they are not properly understood. Such plain words, however, cannot be gainsaid or mistaken. They mean what they say and their implication is clear: the earthly ministry of Jesus Christ demonstrates itself to be a part of Time Past. Thus the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are properly placed in the Time Past division when we "rightly divide the word of truth."

The same is true of the early Acts period. In His post-resurrection commission our Lord clearly maintained the advantaged status of the circumcision:

"And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, BEGINNING AT JERUSALEM" (Luke 24:47).

After some 40 days of personal instruction from their resurrected Lord in things "pertaining to the kingdom of God," the apostles understood that the program of God still focused on Israel and her coming kingdom:

"When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, LORD, WILT THOU AT THIS TIME RESTORE AGAIN THE KINGDOM TO ISRAEL?" (Acts 1:6).

That this understanding was in no way a mistake of human frailty is borne out by the fact that on the day of Pentecost, Peter, speaking "as the Spirit gave [him] utterance," three times specifically limits his message to the nation Israel:

"But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, YE MEN OF JUDAEA, AND ALL YE THAT DWELL AT JERUSALEM, BE THIS KNOWN UNTO YOU, AND HEARKEN TO MY WORDS:

"YE MEN OF ISRAEL, HEAR THESE WORDS..."

"THEREFORE LET ALL THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL KNOW ASSUREDLY..." (Acts 2:14, 22, 36).

Thus the understanding of Peter and the eleven as to just where they stood in the program of God gives clear evidence that they still functioned in the Time Past division, when Israel was still in the place of honor and advantage.

Peter is identified in Galatians 2:8 as the apostle of the circumcision and as such preached "the gospel of the circumcision" (Galatians 2:7). It is in this capacity and with this message that he declares to his nation:

"YE ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE PROPHETS, AND OF THE COVENANT WHICH GOD MADE WITH OUR FATHERS, SAYING UNTO ABRAHAM, AND IN THY SEED SHALL ALL THE KINDREDS OF THE EARTH BE BLESSED.

"UNTO YOU FIRST GOD, HAVING RAISED UP HIS SON JESUS, SENT HIM TO BLESS YOU, IN TURNING AWAY EVERYONE OF YOU FROM HIS INIQUITIES" (Acts 3:25,26).

Throughout their ministry as recorded in Acts the Pentecostal believers declare their testimony that

"The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.

"Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Savior, FOR TO GIVE REPENTANCE TO ISRAEL, and forgiveness of sins" (Acts 5:30-32).

In fact, Israel's special privileged position extended even after they were scattered from Jerusalem by persecution, for Acts 11:19 tells us:

"Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen traveled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, PREACHING THE WORD TO NONE BUT UNTO THE JEWS ONLY."

The record is clear: The books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and the early part of the book of Acts properly belong in Time Past.


BUT NOW

When, then, does the change to the But Now position occur? When did the circumcision and the uncircumcision being reconciled into one body begin to take place? Ephesians 3 supplies the answer:

"For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

"IF YE HAVE HEARD OF THE DISPENSATION OF THE GRACE OF GOD WHICH IS GIVEN ME TO YOU-WARD:

"HOW THAT BY REVELATION HE MADE KNOWN UNTO ME THE MYSTERY...

"WHICH IN OTHER AGES WAS NOT MADE KNOWN UNTO THE SONS OF MEN, AS IT IS NOW REVEALED UNTO HIS HOLY APOSTLES AND PROPHETS BY THE SPIRIT;

"THAT THE GENTILES SHOULD BE FELLOW HEIRS, AND OF THE SAME BODY, AND PARTAKERS OF HIS PROMISE IN CHRIST BY THE GOSPEL" (Ephesians 3:1-3,5,6).

From the record it is evident that the Apostle Paul was the instrument our ascended Lord used to initiate the program of grace for the Gentiles by way of a message he calls "the mystery"-a secret purpose which God kept "hidden" in Himself until He revealed it to and then through the Apostle Paul.

With the raising up of Paul we move from Time Past into the But Now section and cross what in fact is the most important boundary line of the Bible-that between prophecy and the great mystery proclaimed by Paul. It is into these two great subjects that the Bible is basically divided.

Manifestly there is a great difference between Peter's preaching of that "which God hath spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began" (Acts 3:21) and Paul's proclamation of that "which was kept secret since the world began" (Romans 16:25).

This secret message has to do with the breaking down of the middle wall of partition and the placing of Jew and Gentile into one body on an absolutely equal basis through simple faith in the cross-work of the Lord Jesus Christ (Ephesians 2:13-22). How is it that this "mystery" message can now go to the Gentiles without regard to Israel's former status? Romans 11 answers:

"I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather THROUGH THEIR FALL SALVATION IS COME UNTO THE GENTILES, for to provoke them to jealousy."

"...THE CASTING AWAY OF THEM [IS] THE RECONCILING OF THE WORLD..."

"For I WOULD NOT, BRETHREN, THAT YE SHOULD BE IGNORANT OF THIS MYSTERY, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that BLINDNESS IN PART IS HAPPENED TO ISRAEL, UNTIL THE FULNESS OF THE GENTILES BE COME IN" (Romans 11:11,15,25).

Our Lord set the nation Israel aside during the Acts period and from heaven's glory introduced a new program through a new apostle. With the revelation of this new program we move into the But Now period and thus we read Paul now declaring:

"FOR I SPEAK TO YOU GENTILES, INASMUCH AS I AM THE APOSTLE OF THE GENTILES, I MAGNIFY MINE OFFICE" (Romans 11:13).

Romans through Philemon are the books, then, that fit into the But Now division. These are the books that detail what God is doing during the present dispensation of grace.


THE AGES TO COME

After the present dispensation is brought to a conclusion, there is still much that God has to accomplish. Since His prophetic program for tile nation Israel has currently been interrupted in order to form the Body of Christ, the first order of business would logically be its completion.

Appropriately, the grouping of books following the Pauline epistles is called the Hebrew Epistles. They, in fact, fit doctrinally into the Ages To Come. Consider Hebrews 2:3,5:

"How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation, WHICH AT THE FIRST BEGAN TO BE SPOKEN BY THE LORD [Matthew through John], and was CONFIRMED UNTO US BY THEM THAT HEARD HIM [early Acts];"

"For unto the angels hath He not put into subjection THE WORLD TO COME, WHEREOF WE SPEAK [Hebrews through Revelation]."

The distinction between the circumcision and uncircumcision is also again in vogue in the Hebrew Epistles, and thus we find such things as:

"James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, TO THE TWELVE TRIBES which are scattered abroad, greeting" (James 1:1).


"BUT YE ARE A CHOSEN GENERATION, A ROYAL PRIESTHOOD, AN HOLY NATION, A PECULIAR PEOPLE..." (I Peter 2:9).


AN IMPORTANT QUESTION

Thus we see that the Word of God itself provides us with the key to its own proper understanding and right division:

Time Past: In Matthew through John we find the earthly ministry of Jesus Christ to the nation Israel. In the book of Acts we have the fall of Israel and salvation going to the Gentiles through the ministry of the Apostle Paul.

But Now: Romans through Philemon provide the doctrine for the present dispensation of grace.

Ages To Come: Hebrews through Revelation focus on the ages to come when God will bring to fruition His purposes for both the nation Israel and the Body of Christ.

We are not the only people in the programs and purposes of God. People in other ages need Scripture to instruct them in the specifics of God's dealings with them just as we do. Remember: All of the Bible is for us but it is not all to us nor is it all about us. If we fail to recognize this important fact we will never be able to properly understand just what God is doing today nor will we know just what He would have us do.

One important question remains: You are one of "the nations." The Apostle Paul says unequivocally, "I am the apostle of the Gentiles [i.e., the nations]." Who, then, is your apostle? There can be no answer but that Paul is our apostle, for he was raised up by our ascended Lord specifically that he "should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles" (Romans 15:16).

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, HE THAT RECEIVETH WHOMSOEVER I SEND RECEIVETH ME; AND HE THAT RECEIVETH ME RECEIVETH HIM THAT SENT ME" (John 13:20).

Thus it is in Paul's writings alone that we find the doctrine, position, walk and destiny of the Body of Christ.



http://www.av-1611.com/

[Psalm 51:17]

This is a good discussion - I'm post-trib, but if I told you guys I am hooting, hollering, and waiting for that day to get my head chopped off, I would be LYING to you. Remember when Peter vowed to Jesus that he would not deny his name? Remember how that turned out?

With that being said, I wonder if the Rev 13 antichrist has been groomed for quite some time now, with the only thing lacking is his making his appearance. Maybe he IS walking this earth now, albeit hiding behind the scenes? The reason why I mention this is b/c remember how our other Presidents were being groomed behind the scenes quietly for quite some time(ie-Obama), and just emerged out of nowhere.