You Cannot be saved by reading the NIV bible?

[Christian40]

I'm throwing this one out there

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AEIpXldXjc&feature=share

Martin Richling from The Scriptures Alone Bible School teaches clearly that a person CANNOT be saved reading the NIV Bible or any other english translation after 1611 other than the King James Bible.

[Mark]

I dont know about that. There were thousands saved before the Bible was even finished. Most people get saved by some one witnessing to them and that is by word of mouth. The lord could use what ever he wants to get his point across, ask Balaam. But I do believe a person should be convicted to leave the NIV and seek a AV version.

[Psalm 51:17]

Let's not forget too that people have been saved on their DEATHBEDS - people who are just about to die probably don't even have a chance to read a mere 1-2 chapters out of any bible.

Personally, what hindered me the most when I first got saved a few years ago was reading the many so-called Christian BOOKS(you know, the ones you see at your local "Christian bookstore" or library). Of course, the NIV hindered me, but the books were the most damaging.

[PeanutGallery]

God opened my eyes to the truth using a catholic bible; later He led me to the KJB.

[Lisa]

I think i was reading the message bible vwhen i was saved. One is not saved by a bible translation but by grace. The concept that you cannot be saved unless you read the KJV is so ridiculous im not gonna waste my time. I know loads of folk who are soundly saved and still read other versions-we all progress at different rates and in Fathers good time.
 The saying false gospel is possibly apt (for it is by only reading the KJV that you can be saved.....I dont think so).

L

[Believer]

This issue truly goes beyond all common sense; as Dok has stated, that would mean that every single person since Adam & Eve up until the KJV was written are all not saved....really, come on folks.  The KJV is beautiful, but the Word of God is still within God's complete control in how He reveals it to each person, individually, in their own time.

I've said it before that if a person in the Brazilian Forests has only a Gidgeon Bible they got from a hotel, begins reading it, cannot our God still convict and lead them to the truth of His son?  Is His power not beyond any err done by man?  Of course it is.

[Lisa]

Amen

[Psalm 51:17]

This issue truly goes beyond all common sense; as Dok has stated, that would mean that every single person since Adam & Eve up until the KJV was written are all not saved....really, come on folks.  The KJV is beautiful, but the Word of God is still within God's complete control in how He reveals it to each person, individually, in their own time.

I've said it before that if a person in the Brazilian Forests has only a Gidgeon Bible they got from a hotel, begins reading it, cannot our God still convict and lead them to the truth of His son?  Is His power not beyond any err done by man?  Of course it is.

While I admire alot of these people using youtube to spread and defend God's word, at the same time, we(and they) really have to be careful over every word we/they say.

Really, personally, I don't want to start a youtube ministry quite simply b/c I KNOW I will make mistakes a plenty, and will be held accountable for it. While I think this gentleman in the youtube may have good intentions, he probably should have done more praying before he presented this.

[Kilika]

Good point Dok. Can't argue that.

The problem for most of the versions is not so much they aren't a real bible, but that they have been changed which affects sound doctrine. But they still talk of Jesus being the way to salvation. The very basics I don't believe are really changed. The main story seems to stay pretty obvious, even in a NIV. And that leads a person to look closer at just what it's saying, so people if they are sincere will start looking for Jesus, and they WILL find Him if they search with all their heart. It's just that in order to become grounded and settled in the true Word, they'll eventually leave the NIV, or any other fake bible. Jesus will see to it that they get the truth.

While a person I think can become saved out of reading the NIV, if they continue using it, they won't get correct doctrine.

[Mark]

Good point Dok. Can't argue that.

The problem for most of the versions is not so much they aren't a real bible, but that they have been changed which affects sound doctrine. But they still talk of Jesus being the way to salvation. The very basics I don't believe are really changed. The main story seems to stay pretty obvious, even in a NIV. And that leads a person to look closer at just what it's saying, so people if they are sincere will start looking for Jesus, and they WILL find Him if they search with all their heart. It's just that in order to become grounded and settled in the true Word, they'll eventually leave the NIV, or any other fake bible. Jesus will see to it that they get the truth.

While a person I think can become saved out of reading the NIV, if they continue using it, they won't get correct doctrine.

[Christian40]

Is it a sin to use a Modern Bible?

[Kilika]

Considering the research I did and posted here...

http://endtimesandcurrentevents.freesmfhosting.com/index.php/topic,38.0.html

I believe I can make the case that even the KJB is not exact as there is multiple printings that vary between them, even slightly, but "slightly" doesn't cut it when one calls something the perfect Word of God. It must be perfect, and what we have in english isn't perfect as evidenced by the many editions of the KJB.

I can even make a case that the vast majority have been using an incorrect newer KJB than was needed. What is most used today is based on the Cambridge or Oxford Standard texts of 1769, but I question why they even felt a need after the 1762 edition, which alledgedly my personal bible is based on.

We can go round and round on the letter of the law, but to what end? Striving about the law to no profit.

I DO believe "which edition?" is ultimately settled with the 1769 editions of either the Cambridge or Oxford Standard texts. They have other versions to which I don't agree were needed or justified. Those I don't recommend, such as the 1911 PCE.

Ink on paper will not save you. Believing that Jesus Christ is Lord and Saviour and baptism with the Comforter is what will save you. What matters is how one learns of Jesus. His Word is passed from person to person as the Spirit moves them...

"And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!" Romans 10:15 (KJB)

A bible is paper and ink, and of itself I do not believe is something magical or special of itself. It's an inanimate object, nothing more than leather, rice paper and ink. What's important about it is what it says, the truth of the words in it.

The key, I believe, is the Spirit. Time and again scripture tells us about the Spirit, God is a spirit, walk in the Spirit, being spiritual, and comparing spiritual with spiritual. Spirit is good and eternal, while carnal is bad and temporal.

As it says, "...whereby we are sealed unto the day of redemption".

Without the Holy Ghost, no amount of bibles will save you. This is why it says "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved...".

[Psalm 51:17]

Also want to add, yes, while I agree with alot of everything said in this thread...let's not forget the lack of depth these other bible versions have.

For example, having read the book of Revelations in the NIV, it comes off as INCREDIBLY confusing. Ultimately, no wonder why today's "church" has all but checked out of end times bible prophecy and have fallen for the Preterist/replacement theology view. There's just so many errors and confusion that the translators of these other bible versions created in Revelation(and other important escatology books like Daniel).

I talked to one person recently who strongly believes the 144K sealed in Rev is nothing but symbology meaning the true born again believers being redeamed at the end(and tried to tie it in with numerology like 12, 144, etc from other passages in the OT...but ended up trying to fit a square peg in a round hole). And of course the NIV translators change the word "in" to ON in the mark of the beast passage.

Also, this same person I talked to admitted that he really has never gotten into Isaiah(and pretty much Jeremiah, the OT prophets that warn about the wrath to come). It seems like today's "church" has all but checked out of these important OT prophets as well. It just seems like the translators of these other bible versions have watered them down and made them confusing.

[Believer]

Also want to add, yes, while I agree with alot of everything said in this thread...let's not forget the lack of depth these other bible versions have.

For example, having read the book of Revelations in the NIV, it comes off as INCREDIBLY confusing. Ultimately, no wonder why today's "church" has all but checked out of end times bible prophecy and have fallen for the Preterist/replacement theology view. There's just so many errors and confusion that the translators of these other bible versions created in Revelation(and other important escatology books like Daniel).

I talked to one person recently who strongly believes the 144K sealed in Rev is nothing but symbology meaning the true born again believers being redeamed at the end(and tried to tie it in with numerology like 12, 144, etc from other passages in the OT...but ended up trying to fit a square peg in a round hole). And of course the NIV translators change the word "in" to ON in the mark of the beast passage.

Also, this same person I talked to admitted that he really has never gotten into Isaiah(and pretty much Jeremiah, the OT prophets that warn about the wrath to come). It seems like today's "church" has all but checked out of these important OT prophets as well. It just seems like the translators of these other bible versions have watered them down and made them confusing.

While I agree with you in some of this, BA, I don't believe the different bibles are what is causing such great delusion and disbelief of the times we are in, this is all a part of God's plan, He said all of this would happen.  All things that remain ambiguous, in the Bible or man's heart, are, imo, done on purpose, as God must leave some room for reasonable doubt...as in giving each man the free will decision to NOT believe in Him.  In order for there to be a choice He must make available just enough wiggle room for satan to deceive for this decision to be from two sides.

If we didn't have evil or discourse we'd have a perfect world and once that apple was bitten the knowledge of evil was available and stamped into man's history.  What each of us may see as evil will be turned into good, especially if any of this touches upon even one of His children.

God knew this would happen and so we shouldn't be so worked up about it as He is always in charge; He will lead ALL who would come to Him for He will make the path to His son's precious gift available despite anything man or satan can do to try and stop it.  For every stumbling block our GOD will triumph and lead each who wish to drink to the well of everlasting life.  Let's not forget the power of our God, as if man could ever do anything that He couldn't overcome.

Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Lisa]

Considering the research I did and posted here...

Ink on paper will not save you. Believing that Jesus Christ is Lord and Saviour and baptism with the Comforter is what will save you. What matters is how one learns of Jesus. His Word is passed from person to person as the Spirit moves them...

Kilika is this not Lordship salvation a rather dangerous heresy....??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lordship_salvation_controversy

[Christian40]

Believing that Jesus Christ is Lord and Saviour and baptism with the Comforter is what will save you.

"And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel." - Mark 1:15

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Doctrines/Lordship%20Salvation/lordship.htm

I don't believe the different bibles are what is causing such great delusion and disbelief of the times we are in, this is all a part of God's plan, He said all of this would happen. All things that remain ambiguous, in the Bible or man's heart, are, imo, done on purpose, as God must leave some room for reasonable doubt...as in giving each man the free will decision to NOT believe in Him. In order for there to be a choice He must make available just enough wiggle room for satan to deceive for this decision to be from two sides.

If we didn't have evil or discourse we'd have a perfect world and once that apple was bitten the knowledge of evil was available and stamped into man's history. What each of us may see as evil will be turned into good, especially if any of this touches upon even one of His children.

God knew this would happen and so we shouldn't be so worked up about it as He is always in charge; He will lead ALL who would come to Him for He will make the path to His son's precious gift available despite anything man or satan can do to try and stop it. For every stumbling block our GOD will triumph and lead each who wish to drink to the well of everlasting life. Let's not forget the power of our God, as if man could ever do anything that He couldn't overcome.

If a Christian doesn't have the right Bible in there hands then there is room for bigger deception for a Christian Believer. Satan is very subtle at things, and at using deluded people who want to change God's word. If a Christian loves God's word then they will protest at a change of a verse that gives the text a misleading meaning. We have to "fight" for the Authorized King James Bible and "contend" for the truth.

[Believer]

"And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel." - Mark 1:15

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Doctrines/Lordship%20Salvation/lordship.htm

If a Christian doesn't have the right Bible in there hands then there is room for bigger deception for a Christian Believer. Satan is very subtle at things, and at using deluded people who want to change God's word. If a Christian loves God's word then they will protest at a change of a verse that gives the text a misleading meaning. We have to "fight" for the Authorized King James Bible and "contend" for the truth.

I guess I believe our God is more powerful than satan, but I am not offended by those who wish to do this.  Not everyone can get their hands on a KJV, as there are billions of people who live lives different from ours and I am not going to believe that they won't be saved.  The Lord says there is a time when the 'fullness of the gentiles' will come and so I must believe that His word will be fulfilled and that all who will be counted as such will be led to Jesus Christ despite anything satan can or will do.

[Kilika]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lordship_salvation_controversy

While all Protestants affirm salvation by grace alone received by faith alone, some believe that this grace results in conscious submission to the moral law of God. That is, Jesus cannot be "Saviour" without being "Lord". "Lordship salvation" is thus the belief that the possibility of salvation involved the acceptance of Jesus Christ not only as Saviour, but also submission and obedience to Jesus Christ as "Lord", also expressed as "Trust and Obey".[1]

Free Grace theology is the opposing position. It argues that "lordship salvation" is legalistic, promoting a works-centered view of justification that neglects the principles of faith alone and grace alone and contradicts key passages in the Gospel of John and the Pauline epistles.

Lisa,

I've read that a couple of times, and I'm not understanding what the problem is, but apparently you have a problem with what I posted. What am I saying that you think is wrong?

Jesus Christ is Lord and Saviour. Are you telling me that He isn't?

So let me ask you then, what did Thomas say when he saw Jesus after the resurrection?

"And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God." John 20:28 (KJB)

"And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS." Rvelation 19:16 (KJB)

"O give thanks to the Lord of lords: for his mercy [endureth] for ever." Psalm 136:3 (KJB)

[Kilika]

Quote
Believing that Jesus Christ is Lord and Saviour and baptism with the Comforter is what will save you.

"And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel." - Mark 1:15

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Doctrines/Lordship%20Salvation/lordship.htm

I'm not sure why you posted this Christian40. Are you saying also I'm preaching "Lordship Salvation"?

Well, I went to that link, and I read about the first 2 paragraphs and stopped. David J. Stewart, eh? I can tell you Mr. Stewart is dead wrong, and is actually guilty himself of promoting false doctrines.

Seriously, how can he possibly get that idea out of scripture? I don't get this...

The above passage of Scripture is speaking about the Apostle Peter. Peter sinned by denying Jesus. Yet, Peter was a born-again believer. King David was a Christian; yet he conspired to have a man killed, to cover up an unwanted pregnancy, from an adulterous affair with that man's wife. Abraham and Sara doubted God. Moses was a murderer. Samson went with a harlot. Jacob was a thief. Jonah ran from God. Noah got drunk. Isaiah was a man of unclean lips. These were God's best and brightest.

Lot was a worldly believer. Yet, 2nd Peter 2:7 calls Lot a “just” man. The Lordship Salvation crowd would have considered all of these men unsaved. Yet, we see they were saved. 

This subject needs to preached about on a regular basis, because the damnable heresy of LORDSHIP SALVATION has infiltrated our churches, and is leading multitudes into Hell.

King David was a Christian? That's a first for me! Never heard anybody claim that before, that I remember.

King David was NOT Christian! He was a Jew. Not a very good one, but all the same, a Jew, the outwardly kind, of the letter of law, and not of grace as we know it through Jesus Christ.

Now if you want to claim that he is like Abraham, in that his belief in God was counted as righteousness, as faith in God, sure. That's a Christian trait, but, it doesn't make him a Christian by New Testament definition. How can they accept Jesus as their Saviour if Jesus had not walked the earth yet as Jesus the Saviour? That means they must be "saved" by some other way, which I believe goes back to the promises God made to those of the Old Testament days.

Like with us today, some will be saved, and some won't.

But remember, Jesus said what? "Let the dead bury their dead". That to me means this is a moot topic anyway, just like the rapture debate, etc. Who can say who is saved of those before Jesus? Can you? I can't. I believe only God can at the judgement seat. Whether or not they are saved, and by what standards they are judged, is up to God.

So, I ask, What's your point?

[akfools]

At this point, the argument does get a little bit silly. How does a person that understands the true Gospel of Jesus Christ,  convicted before God as a sinner needing forgiveness, turning to Him in repentance for salvation by grace through faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross, and not claim Jesus as his Lord and Saviour?  Come on now.

David Stewart has alot of good material but he takes things a bit too far in defense of once saved always saved and lordship salvation doctrines.


Prov 11:1 A false balance is abomination to the LORD: but a just weight is his delight.

[Psalm 51:17]

At this point, the argument does get a little bit silly. How does a person that understands the true Gospel of Jesus Christ,  convicted before God as a sinner needing forgiveness, turning to Him in repentance for salvation by grace through faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross, and not claim Jesus as his Lord and Saviour?  Come on now.

David Stewart has alot of good material but he takes things a bit too far in defense of once saved always saved and lordship salvation doctrines.


Prov 11:1 A false balance is abomination to the LORD: but a just weight is his delight.

Stewart also leans anti-Israel(his posts numerous articles by Henry Makow's anti-Israel columns on there, Makow is an unbeliever himself).

[Psalm 51:17]

If a Christian doesn't have the right Bible in there hands then there is room for bigger deception for a Christian Believer. Satan is very subtle at things, and at using deluded people who want to change God's word. If a Christian loves God's word then they will protest at a change of a verse that gives the text a misleading meaning. We have to "fight" for the Authorized King James Bible and "contend" for the truth.

Yeah, that was the point I was trying to make with end times watching/false bible versions - since the turn of the century in particular, today's "church" has growingly checked out of bible prophecy. Sure, there have been other factors(ie-yoking up with the Emergent Church, which has brought in the damnable Preterism/kingdom on earth building heresy), but having myself read Revelation in the NIV, it comes off as INCREDIBLY confusing. The KJV, OTOH gives a VERY straightforward explanation of it. And not to mention too all of these perverted versions have watered down the warnings of deception in the end times. For example, the Message bible translated the deceivers passage in Matthew 24 to "do not be deceived by DOOMSDAY DECEIVERS". The KJV, OTOH translates it to "Take heed that NO MAN deceive you". I mean the Message is now pretty much embraced the the SBC. You can see a HUGE difference in the translation of the 2.

And for that matter too, my mom's pastor translates the 144K sealed in Rev 7 as SYMBOLIC for true born again believers at Jesus's 2nd Coming. It seems to be the belief among today's modern day pastor(regardless of denomination). Somehow they try to tie in OT passages using numerology with 12, 1000, 144, etc, but they end up trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. Seriously, this EEKS LORDSHIP SALVATION. It's a big deception itself b/c it ends up making one believe that *only* 144K Christians will be sealed, saved, and get eternal life while the rest of the Christians get thrown in the lake of fire.(even though they say it's *only symbolic*) I'll be honest with you guys and say that last year I fell for this heresy, and got very worried about losing my salvation and falling away.

Anyhow, yes, Believer and others here, I understand what you are saying(I too got saved reading an NIV, and for that matter too I attended a Purpose Driven member church at the time), but just pointing out on the flip side, look at how much damage the other versions have caused in regard to other areas.

[Lisa]

Kilika-im sure that you didnt mean it as i was reading it-But it sounded like Lordship salvation.

Can i explain the gospel as i understand it...One is convicted by the unique ministry of the Holy spirit, and during the process one may (this is testimonial rather than clear doctrine but i believe that this is the way it gos) increase ones efforts to remove the convicting power. For example (these are just examples) one may adhere closer to the law, one may tythe, or try harder to pray. One may say a sinners prayer or one may adhere to the concept that Jesus is Lord. All these things are promoted by false teachers and they are all a works based gospel ie I do this or that and in return i get salvation. False teachers will affirm that you have reached the gold standard but there will never be a full assurance until true salvation has occured.

Whereas the true gospel is a supernatural 'knowing' that the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ is sufficient to counteract my sins-thus grace reigns (a free gift from God that i need do nothing to appropriate). Only when i get to the end of self and accept fully that i am a filthy sinner can i bow my head in acceptance that NOTHING i think or do can work up salvation. It is already accomplished upon the complete work of Christ. Thus i stop all efforts and allow Christ to be all through me (a death has occured).

Thats my best effort to describe the conundrum and im sure you knew that but its worth while writing and re-writing it-if for no other reason than it glorifies my Lord and saviour!

Lisa

[Kilika]

Whereas the true gospel is a supernatural 'knowing' that the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ is sufficient to counteract my sins-thus grace reigns (a free gift from God that i need do nothing to appropriate). Only when i get to the end of self and accept fully that i am a filthy sinner can i bow my head in acceptance that NOTHING i think or do can work up salvation. It is already accomplished upon the complete work of Christ. Thus i stop all efforts and allow Christ to be all through me (a death has occured).

Thats my best effort to describe the conundrum and im sure you knew that but its worth while writing and re-writing it-if for no other reason than it glorifies my Lord and saviour!

Amen!

"The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit." John 3:8 (KJB)

"Wait on the LORD: be of good courage, and he shall strengthen thine heart: wait, I say, on the LORD." Psalm 27:14 (KJB)

"Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain." James 5:7 (KJB)

[Lisa]

Ephesians 1 vs 5
(6 & 7)
x
L

[Christian40]

Ok i was thinking about this issue.

Lord Jesus says:

John 15:
7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

what if you dont have God's word in you? well your prayers are going to be hindered. What if you have the NIV inside you and you think you have said a sinners pray? God does not have to recognize that?

How can someone know the "Will of God" the "Mind of Christ" or the "Mind of the Spirit" unless they know the Word of God?

[Believer]

Ok i was thinking about this issue.

Lord Jesus says:

John 15:
7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

what if you dont have God's word in you? well your prayers are going to be hindered. What if you have the NIV inside you and you think you have said a sinners pray? God does not have to recognize that?

How can someone know the "Will of God" the "Mind of Christ" or the "Mind of the Spirit" unless they know the Word of God?

Think of it this way Christian, even with two people reading from the KJV you can have two different interpretations, no?  So, in reality, each person is going to understand the words differently, in their own minds...each will believe they are correct.  It is the Holy Spirit that leads to the truth in understanding those words.  So, who was correct in their understanding?  Which was led by the Holy Spirit?  The one who may have misunderstood will eventually, in God's time, be led to the truth and they will open their eyes and those same words will come differently to them.  I believe even with an NIV or any other Bible, the words themselves don't matter as it will be understood correctly by the leading of the Holy Spirit in the end.

That is why some can be saved using different Bibles, the true meaning will always be understood despite any change to the actual words.  The link that forms between the reader and God is much more powerful than the ink on that paper.  Imo.

p.s. Please don't think I believe the words in the Bible 'don't matter', they do, I mean the truth as God wishes us to read them...each person, as is obvious in our lives, will always understood differently even when many read from the KJV until they are led to the true meaning by the Holy Spirit.

[akfools]

 Remember....God can speak through an ass if He so pleases to do so. Is the NIV any different?

Mark 10:27 And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.

[Christian40]

Remember....God can speak through an ass if He so pleases to do so. Is the NIV any different?

Mark 10:27 And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.

But was this donkey a clean or unclean animal? And has this miracle happened since then? It seems to be a miracle for the Jews only.

The NIV was written by Gentiles and is uninspired right?

The link that forms between the reader and God is much more powerful than the ink on that paper.  Imo.

Luke 21:
33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

Psalm 138:
2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

[Mark]

But was this donkey a clean or unclean animal? And has this miracle happened since then? It seems to be a miracle for the Jews only.

ya lost me there.  the warning was for Balaam to give unto Balak king of Moab. Balaam was going with the princes of Moab and the Lord stood in his way and the donkey would not prcoceed as the the Angel of the Lord turned him away. God had Balaam tell Balak that he could no curse the Israelits as God had blessed them.

Also this is a true story recorded outside of the Bible.
http://endtimesandcurrentevents.freesmfhosting.com/index.php/topic,542.msg1674.html#msg1674

About 15 min into that doc he presents real actual historical evidence for the taking place. That is so cool....