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Permission Slip From Caesar Needed to Hold Bible Studies?

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Author Topic: Permission Slip From Caesar Needed to Hold Bible Studies?  (Read 661 times)
Mark
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« on: October 24, 2011, 08:54:49 am »

Permission Slip From Caesar Needed to Hold Bible Studies?

If I were to tell you about a city where it’s illegal to hold a Bible study in your home without official permission, you’d think I was talking about a city in China or Saudi Arabia.

Well, you would be wrong. I’m talking about California. You might think, “That can’t be constitutional.” But you would be wrong again.

Every Wednesday and Sunday, between 20 and 50 people gather at the home of Stephanie and Chuck Fromm for Bible studies. While that sounds like a lot of people, the Fromms have a lot of home: the property includes a “corral, barn, pool and huge back lawn,” typical of their “semi-rural” neighborhood.

Unfortunately for the Fromms, their home came with a neighbor who, by her own admission, “has never gotten along with the Fromms.” So she filed a complaint against the Fromms.

That’s when the Fromms learned that their Bible studies violated local ordinances. Not because they were too noisy: There’s no singing or music at the gatherings. Not because of any parking problems: Chuck Fromm makes sure that his guests are not obstructing his neighbors in any way.

No, they violate the law because local ordinances require a “conditional use permit” for meetings of “religious, fraternal or non-profit” organizations in residential neighborhoods. The ordinance doesn’t specify how many people need to gather to run afoul of the law: Three Freemasons could meet over coffee in one of their homes to discuss Lodge business and be in violation of the law.

The Fromms are challenging the law in Court. Stephanie Fromm says, “we should be able to be hospitable in my home.” It sounds reasonable. And as Chuck Fromm says, the issue goes beyond Bible studies.

Right, and that’s the problem: Given the current state of church-state jurisprudence, the San Juan Capistrano ordinance just might pass constitutional muster.

That’s because the Supreme Court has ruled that laws like this don’t violate the First Amendment even if they prevent people from practicing their religion, so long as they apply to everyone equally. In Employment Division v. Smith, written by Justice Scalia, of all men, the Supreme Court dubbed laws like this “neutral laws of general applicability.” So if the law doesn’t target a particular religious practice, it’s permissible.

The Court said that while states and municipalities were free to create religiously based exceptions, the Constitution doesn’t require them. What the Court didn’t say is what happens when states and municipalities refuse to be reasonable. And my experiences taught me that government officials can be very unreasonable at times.

That’s why a coalition of liberals and conservatives tried to get Smith reversed through the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA). Religious freedom is too important to our way of life to be left to the whim of local government and unfriendly neighbors. Sadly, in a blatant display of turf protection, the Court struck this legislation down. So later Congress enacted the Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act (RLUIPA). But protection of religious freedom is much narrower in this bill and may not apply in cases like the Fromm’s - which leaves them at the mercy of public officials.

Hopefully, the bad publicity will cause officials in San Juan Capistrano to back down. While that would be great for the Fromms, we would still be in a situation where holding a Bible study might require a permission slip from Caesar.
Take note: check your local ordinances - you may need to change them.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/permission-slip-from-caesar-needed-to-hold-bible-studies-58637/
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Christian40
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« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2011, 04:28:42 am »

Hold the Bible Studies no matter what the cost!!

This is just Satan testing the matter to try to get another foothold in California.

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Hopefully, the bad publicity will cause officials in San Juan Capistrano to back down.

Yeah you would think if this story went viral and prayers and support for the Fromms happened that there will be a change and it will be better.
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Kilika
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« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2011, 05:55:06 pm »

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If I were to tell you about a city where it’s illegal to hold a Bible study in your home without official permission, you’d think I was talking about a city in China or Saudi Arabia.

Well, you would be wrong. I’m talking about California.

Who says California is even American anymore? They've stepped so far over the constitutional line, I'd classify them as a foreign country.

From the sounds of it, they got a local ordinance that was never fully thought through. If it is so undefined I don't see how it can hold up until they get some details clarified, such as setting a minimum number of people, etc.

To say people cannot discuss religion or a non-profit enterprise in their own home without a permit is absurd, and surely can't hold up in court, not without having any numbers or clarification as how it might relate to family functions, etc.

I'd like to know what exactly are they accomplishing by requiring the permits? Are they trying to make sure of something? Maybe to stop people from doing something improper? What's the reason for the permits in the first place? Seems like somebody with a personal agenda came up with this silly requirement.
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« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2011, 07:26:10 pm »

Who says California is even American anymore? They've stepped so far over the constitutional line, I'd classify them as a foreign country.

 Shocked i was thinking the same thing earlier today.
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« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2011, 08:43:13 pm »

Shocked i was thinking the same thing earlier today.

Well, Texas isn't any better(contrary to conventional wisdom) - there are ALOT of megachurches here, and the current governor has brought it Islam to the public schools.
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« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2011, 11:27:28 am »

Well, Texas isn't any better(contrary to conventional wisdom) - there are ALOT of megachurches here, and the current governor has brought it Islam to the public schools.

Mr. Forced Medical Experiment, Perry? Smiley
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« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2011, 08:19:07 am »

Home Bible studiers in the clear

A legal analyst says it was "wise" for a California city to drop a citation filed against a couple for hosting a home Bible study.

The city of San Juan Capistrano dismissed its citation against a local couple who held a growing Bible study in their home. Because of complaints from the neighbors, the city initially fined Chuck and Stephanie Fromm $300 for holding the session. Officials had also noted that the couple needed a conditional use permit to hold the gatherings, and they threatened to fine the Fromms $500 per meeting if they continued. So, the pair filed a lawsuit against San Juan Capistrano following an appeal to the city, which was rejected (see earlier story).

Ken Klukowski, fellow and senior legal analyst with The American Civil Rights Union (ACRU), believes the city ultimately made the right decision.

"The city was wise to rescind that citation because otherwise it would have gone to court, and the city would have been beaten badly in court," he suggests.

The Associated Press reports that the city is currently reviewing how its land-use codes apply to churches, but Klukowski tells OneNewsNow the latest move sets an example for future incidents.

"I think it is certainly a political precedent on behalf of the public officials leading the city, that they understand that pursuing families for having a Bible study in their own home is not very wise policy," the attorney concludes.

http://www.onenewsnow.com/Legal/Default.aspx?id=1486100
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