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The Falling Away

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August 08, 2018, 02:38:10 am suzytr says: Hello, any good churches in the Sacto, CA area, also looking in Reno NV, thanks in advance and God Bless you Smiley
January 29, 2018, 01:21:57 am Christian40 says: It will be interesting to see what happens this year Israel being 70 years as a modern nation may 14 2018
October 17, 2017, 01:25:20 am Christian40 says: It is good to type Mark is here again!  Smiley
October 16, 2017, 03:28:18 am Christian40 says: anyone else thinking that time is accelerating now? it seems im doing days in shorter time now is time being affected in some way?
September 24, 2017, 10:45:16 pm Psalm 51:17 says: The specific rule pertaining to the national anthem is found on pages A62-63 of the league rulebook. It states: “The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem. “During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.”
September 20, 2017, 04:32:32 am Christian40 says: "The most popular Hepatitis B vaccine is nothing short of a witch’s brew including aluminum, formaldehyde, yeast, amino acids, and soy. Aluminum is a known neurotoxin that destroys cellular metabolism and function. Hundreds of studies link to the ravaging effects of aluminum. The other proteins and formaldehyde serve to activate the immune system and open up the blood-brain barrier. This is NOT a good thing."
http://www.naturalnews.com/2017-08-11-new-fda-approved-hepatitis-b-vaccine-found-to-increase-heart-attack-risk-by-700.html
September 19, 2017, 03:59:21 am Christian40 says: bbc international did a video about there street preaching they are good witnesses
September 14, 2017, 08:06:04 am Psalm 51:17 says: bro Mark Hunter on YT has some good, edifying stuff too.
September 14, 2017, 04:31:26 am Christian40 says: i have thought that i'm reaping from past sins then my life has been impacted in ways from having non believers in my ancestry.
September 11, 2017, 06:59:33 am Psalm 51:17 says: The law of reaping and sowing. It's amazing how God's mercy and longsuffering has hovered over America so long. (ie, the infrastructure is very bad here b/c for many years, they were grossly underspent on. 1st Tim 6:10, the god of materialism has its roots firmly in the West) And remember once upon a time ago when shacking up b/w straight couples drew shock awe?

Exodus 20:5  Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
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« on: November 02, 2011, 07:04:22 am »

California Church Preaches Gospel at the Bar

Churches, like businesses, are always trying to attract new faces. Some use tactics like providing coffee and sweets, or they boast a variety of different ministries for all age groups. Others have worship bands of rock star proportions and lots of digital technology to keep parishioners entertained. But a new church in San Jose, Calif., has a very different approach – it provides beer for attendees – after the service, of course.

rest: http://www.christianpost.com/news/california-church-preaches-gospel-at-the-bar-beer-replaces-coffee-59980/?

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« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2011, 09:46:24 pm »

California Church Preaches Gospel at the Bar … Beer Replaces Coffee

Churches, like businesses, are always trying to attract new faces. Some use tactics like providing coffee and sweets, or they boast a variety of different ministries for all age groups. Others have worship bands of rock star proportions and lots of digital technology to keep parishioners entertained. But a new church in San Jose, Calif., has a very different approach – it provides beer for attendees – after the service, of course.
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Bill Jenkins, a native Londoner, calls his month-old church plant in northern California Urbanlife. They meet in downtown San Jose in a bar call the Loft Bar and Bistro at 9:30 a.m. on Sunday mornings. He told The Christian Post he wants to create “a safe environment for a dangerous message.”

Ninety-two percent of the population in Santa Clara County, where San Jose resides, is unchurched. The majority of people there have rejected traditional forms of church. So Jenkins wants to provide church in a new way.

“Most people that come to ours [church] wouldn’t touch a traditional church with a barge pole,” he said.

So he has made Urbanlife as unchurch-like as possible. Their website backs it up. “Urban life is a community of faith with no religious rites, rituals or man-made rules to trip you up,” it states.

But that doesn’t mean they don’t subscribe to any theology, even though the hour-long service doesn’t follow much of an order of worship. It’s simple, with Jenkins preaching a short message and then breaking the 20 or so attendees into small groups to talk, and later return as a large group to discuss what they talked about.


Since Jenkins is a former firefighter, he said his message this past Sunday tied in with the basic principles of fire. To have a fire you need three sides to a triangle: oxygen, heat and fuel. In his message, he compared the Christian life to a triangle, with fuel being the connection to God, oxygen being the connection to other believers and heat what we display to others outside the church.

After the service, people stick around and have a drink at the bar. Jenkins said this is where the real ministry takes place. People want to talk about their faith and their doubts. He likens it to his experiences with local pubs back in England and says he wants to create an atmosphere like it in San Jose. The local pub is “the hub of the community, where people feel comfortable.”

Jenkins was ordained in the Baptist Church in England, and then later, when he moved to the United States, he was ordained at an independent Christian church in South Valley, San Jose. He says Urbanlife church subscribes to the Nicene Creed and the Lausanne Covenant, but he would characterize them as evangelical with a “small e.”

Even though this past Sunday was only the fledgling church’s fifth Sunday, they have already become active in two different ministries around the area. Jenkins doesn’t want to become “another Christian country club.” He said he wants to focus heavily on discipleship with his members.

“Come on,” he said to this reporter, who offered to visit the unconventional church if in the area, “I’ll buy you a pint.”

http://www.christianpost.com/news/california-church-preaches-gospel-at-the-bar-beer-replaces-coffee-59980/
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« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2011, 10:05:46 pm »

1Co 6:9  Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1Co 6:10  Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

1Co 5:11  But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat
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« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2011, 06:42:39 am »

No words are more true BA. Thank you Jesus.

I think one of the obvious questions one should ask, is what this guy is advocating doctrinally sound?

Short answer, in my opinion, yes. Jesus did the exact same thing. Was He drinking alcohol when sitting at meat with publicans and sinners? Don't know, but even if He did, it would have been in moderation and not as a drunkard, be it beer or wine.

Believers meet wherever they meet. It's not about the place they meet, but what they do when they meet, which is fellowship. Part of this discussion I think includes...

18   For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. 
19   For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. 
20   When ye come together therefore into one place, [this] is not to eat the Lord's supper. 
21   For in eating every one taketh before [other] his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. 
22   What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise [you] not. 
23 ¶ For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the [same] night in which he was betrayed took bread: 
24   And when he had given thanks, he brake [it], and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. 
25   After the same manner also [he took] the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink [it], in remembrance of me. 
26   For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come. 
27 ¶ Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink [this] cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 
28   But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of [that] bread, and drink of [that] cup. 
29   For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. 
30   For this cause many [are] weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. 
31   For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. 
32   But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. 
33   Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. 
34   And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come. 
1 Corinthians 11:18-34 (KJB)


Thank you Jesus.

And notice verse 32. Is that not proof salvation cannot be lost? What father doesn't chasten their child? Though the kid acts up, they are still a son.

"And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with [him], that we may be also glorified together." Romans 8:17 (KJB)
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« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2011, 03:25:12 pm »

Nigeria: 'Church' Promises Free Alcohol, Cigarettes, Funky Music
    

IT will be a rare spectacle this Friday, November 4, when a Christian ministry devoted to the conversion of people considered as gross sinners holds its "Guys Night" in Lagos.

Smoking, drinking of alcohol and dancing to immoral music - all of which are considered sin by much of Christendom - will not only be tolerated at the event but would indeed by actively supported by the organisers.

'At the show, booze will be free and cigarette free too; even food will be served freely while music of all kinds will also be played. There will also be other side attractions such as drinking competition, dancing competition, eating competition, fashion parade and testimony night,' said Lizzy Mbanaso, the founder and head of a Christian ministry known as Nice Time Club.

'People that are expected are the drunkards, prostitutes, drug addicts and all those that are considered to be wayward because God told me He cares for these set of people,' she added.

Providing further details of the programme, Evangelist Mbanaso said: 'When they come, we will spice it up with drama, concert and talk shows. They will feel at home and enjoy themselves before we now chip in the word of God. At the end we will do alter call after which we hand them over to church pastors who will further counsel them on how to follow the Christian life.'

The event is scheduled to hold at hospitality facility on Ekoro road in the Abule Egba area of Lagos.

It is Evangelist Mbanaso's wish that some of the expected converts would be drafted to the Living Faith Church (Winners Church), where she worships while in Lagos.

'But my problem is that you can't force them to attend certain churches,' she said.

She also spoke of 'several attempts' she had made to speak with the Winners General Overseer, Bishop David Oyedepo, on the project but disclosed that she 'has not been given audience yet.'

Originally from Cameroun and a secretary by profession, Evangelist Mbanaso is married to an Abia man from Umuahia.

She started her unusual Christian ministry in 2008 but is holding it in Lagos for the first time.

The woman who professes to becoming a born-again Christain in 1994 as a Secretarial Administration student of the Oko Federal Polytechnic, Oko, Anambra State, says she got a divine revelation to start the ministry during a journey from Lagos to her base in Umuahia, while returning from a Christian programme.

Her words: 'I decided to preach in the bus I entered. As I was ministering, I decided to have a short prayer and in that spiritual session, a tiny voice said to me that I should open a nightclub.

'I was surprised because I didn't know anything about club and I have never gone to club before.

'As I was wondering on what to do, that same voice said again that I should do it for the drunkards, drug addicts, prostitutes and those considered to be wayward.

'It further said, "Just gather them together, give them what they want and allow them to feel free, play music after which food and beer would be served." '

Mrs Mbanaso believes that, that tiny sonorous voice belongs to God Almighty and to further fulfil this mandate, the secretary turned evangelist started out in 2008 to host prostitutes, drunkards, smokers and drug addicts in Abia State.

Many men of God and some close associates have tried to dissuade Mrs. Mbanaso from this project but she has forged ahead with it out of the conviction that her commission is directly from God.

Asked whether she has plans to open a formal nightclub in the future, the evangelist said: 'It will not necessarily be a nightclub but it will be something like a drinking joint where people will be allowed to drink and also listen to the word of God through the television and audio tapes.

At times I will give these drinks out for free say ones in a week.

'This is because, I know quite well that beer is not the worst sin; there are many other sins.

'In the process the ones that give their life to Christ will be taken to church. When they settle down in the church, I will help them by making sure I impact some of the skills which I have already acquired such as hairdressing, fashion, catering amongst others.'

Born and wedded in the Methodist Church, Mrs. Mbanaso has soft spot for people who are in one bad habit or the other.

Most of her friends are some of the notorious sinners whom she converted.

'The people I am close to are wayward people. I have soft spot for wayward people. My closest friend today is a drug addict who I converted to become a Christian,' she said.

Narrating how she makes contacts with drug addicts, smokers and prostitutes, the only daughter in a family of five from her mother in a polygamous family said that most times she goes out of her way to seek them out.

'At times, I dress and paint well like a prostitute and just walk into the hotel and stay with them. At times I use the media too to reach out to them.

'Before I go make sure that inform my husband so that he would be aware. Thank God I have a wonderful husband who understands and supports me,' she told The Moment On Sunday.

The evangelist said that from her interactions with prostitutes, she has noticed that most of them are not there because they want to but because of circumstances.
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'Because we are born-again does not mean that we are better. So nobody should just sit down here and be condemning them. It is just God's grace.

'Most of the men of God today were just like that and somebody has not spoken to them, they will not be saved. These prostitutes always have challenges that took them there,' she stated.

Mrs. Mbanaso said that when prostitutes become born-again, they make great preachers because they have seen it all.

She also declared that nobody that is bad really desires to be bad, adding that Nigerians should form the habit of bringing them closer to themselves so as to make them have hope.

'When we do this, this crime that we are talking about in this country will be reduced to the barest minimum.

'Let us help ourselves and let Nigeria encourage these set of people and make sure that they come back to life,' she stated.

http://allafrica.com/stories/201110300012.html
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« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2011, 01:29:16 pm »

Swedish Lutheran church hosts 'techno Mass'

Churchgoers aren't expecting quiet meditation when they enter the Church of All Saints in Stockholm. Instead, they'll be raving to strobe-lit techno sounds.

This is no cosmic sect, but the latest effort by Sweden's Lutheran church to attract young congregations in a country where church attendance has been dwindling for decades.

Olle Idestrom is organizing Friday's "techno Mass" service for the second time. The 28-year-old priest says the feedback has mainly been positive.

And it seems to work. Unlike at traditional Sunday services where several pews remain empty, Idestrom had to turn away techno Mass worshippers a week ago.

http://www.wandtv.com/story/16018338/swedish-lutheran-church-hosts-techno-mass
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« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2011, 07:29:52 pm »

Swedish Lutheran church hosts 'techno Mass'


    Churchgoers dance in the pews during a techno Mass at the Church of All Saints in Stockholm, Sweden, Friday Nov. 11 2011. Rev. Olle Idestrom, not shown, organized the techno Mass for the second time and has been forced to turn away worshippers from the full church. It is the church's latest attempt at attracting young congregations in a country where attendance at services has been dwindling for decades.

STOCKHOLM (AP) — Simon Klemenjak does some street dance moves and throws his hands up in the air to cheer on the crowd before he starts singing to the techno beat in front of the altar in the Church of All Saints in Stockholm.

Instead of praying silently and singing gentle hymns, the congregation inside raves to techno sounds in ultraviolet lighting at Friday's "techno Mass" — more like a disco at a youth center than a service conducted by the Lutheran church.

"It was an awesome feeling," an ecstatic Klemenjak, 21, said after his performance of the song "Never Leave Me", which has been independently composed by youth at the church in Swedish capital's hip Sodermalm district.

It is the church's latest attempt at attracting young congregations in a country where attendance at services has been dwindling for decades.

Olle Idestrom organized the Mass for the second time, and says the feedback has mainly been positive.

"There is already a hip hop Mass, there is a rock Mass and a jazz Mass," the 28-year-old priest said. "But it is mainly club music that we listen to and that we like dancing to, so it felt like a natural choice."

And it seems to work.

Unlike at traditional Sunday services in Sweden where several pews regularly remain empty, Idestrom had to turn away worshippers at the first techno Mass in April.

There was extra seating Friday night at the church, which has a normal capacity of 400.

The service started with organ music and choir singing but soon broke into powerful techno beats to loud approving claps, shouts and cheers. People jumped up and danced at their seats while disco lights swirled over the ornamented wooden ceilings.

"It was superfun, it was really kicking, I didn't think it would be this good before I came," said Ella Schwarz, 15. "The church isn't really my kind of thing, but after this it seems like it is great," she said.

Lawyer Caterine Hogman, 46, says she was impressed with the arrangement and thinks it is good the church does something positive for young people.

Over the past 10 years, membership in Sweden's Lutheran church has fallen 13 percent and attendance at regular Sunday services plunged 50 percent to 4.6 million visits last year, worrying the clergy.

The church in Sweden has become increasingly progressive.

In 1958, it allowed its first female priests, and two years ago ordained its first openly gay bishop, Eva Brunne, and gave priests the right to wed same-sex couples.

Idestrom says his modern Mass is a further development on the road of progress.

"People say this is exactly what the Church of Sweden needs," he said. "We need to develop the services so that we have a service also for people, mainly from the younger generation, who like this kind of music."

But not everyone is happy about the development.

"There are more than enough entertainment halls in the city to cover all tastes. Let the church remain a place for quiet contact with spirituality," said Dan Kareliusson, a representative of the nationalist Sweden Democrats party.

Par Sandberg, a spokesman for the Stockholm diocese, says congregations manage their activities independently and attitudes vary greatly within the Church of Sweden.

"We are a democratic people's church, it is a little different from the Catholic Church for example, where they might have a different set of rules," Sandberg said.

"There are those who maybe wouldn't organize a techno Mass, but on the other hand we have churches that organize something called desert Mass ... characterized by the Coptic tradition," he said. "There are churches who have U2 Masses, where they play music by U2, some have animals — horses and dogs and donkeys — and we have motor cycle Masses."

http://news.yahoo.com/swedish-lutheran-church-hosts-techno-mass-173343364.html
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« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2011, 10:55:28 pm »

sheesh we're supposed to be seperate. Undecided
i wont be surprised if they installed stripper poles in there
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« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2011, 07:04:50 am »

sheesh we're supposed to be seperate. Undecided
i wont be surprised if they installed stripper poles in there


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« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2011, 04:43:25 pm »

In Inver Grove Heights, a church for those who never liked church

The pastor preaches in designer jeans and skateboarding shoes.

He tweets links to his blog and chats with churchgoers on Facebook.

As members walk into the movie theater or auditorium for services, the pastor and his wife are in the front row, singing along and pumping their fists to loud pop music, played by a live band featuring electric guitars.

Suburban megachurches, move over. There's a hipper game in town.

"We know a lot of people have left their mainline churches because it's boring," said Tory Farina, 31, lead pastor at High Point Church in Inver Grove Heights. "They felt they were forced to go. We want them to love it....Our Sunday services feel like a concert."

High Point, which currently meets in an Inver Grove Heights movie theater, is a small portion of an exploding religious movement in the Twin Cities and nationally.

More than 4,200 people attended services at four campuses of Apple Valley-based River Valley Church last Sunday. It is the 17th-fastest-growing church in the nation, according to rankings compiled by Outreach Magazine.

Roseville-based Substance Church, started with help from River Valley, has gone from 30 college students in 2006 to almost 2,500 people attending worship services last weekend. And 70 percent of those people are younger than 30.

The churches are designed to reach the next generation, but their success is what's getting the attention of some more traditional church leadership.

"Religious leaders are
very worried about how they're going to attract that generation," said Penny Edgell, sociology professor at the University of Minnesota. "Any group that gets that generation will have done something that will have transformed the American religious scene."

THE UNCHURCHED GENERATION

One in four members of the "millennial" generation, which includes people born after 1980, are unaffiliated with any particular faith, according to a 2010 Pew Research Center study.

That compares with 20 percent of Generation X members at the same age. The percentages were much lower for previous generations.

However, millennials still pray, possibly even at a higher rate than the previous generation. Forty-five percent of those under 30 surveyed by Pew said they prayed daily, compared with 40 percent of the same age range in the 1990s.

"Research shows this generation is interested in spiritual things," Edgell said. "They just don't seem to like organized religion."

That's why 11 years ago, six pastors in the southeast United States decided to help other, like-minded clergy start Christian churches that could draw a new generation. Since then, the group has helped "plant" more than 200 churches in the U.S., including High Point and Substance.

The churches generally follow a formula for service, which includes a contemporary rock band and a sermon that feels more like chatting with a buddy. The churches meet anywhere, usually leasing auditoriums or theaters from local performing-arts groups or colleges. They have slick websites, complete with highly produced videos, often set to rock music.

"One of our basic missions is attracting the unchurched," said Michael W. Smith, executive director of the Association of Related Churches. "We are creating a service where the unchurched can feel comfortable and hear a message they can relate to. Weekend messages are often centered on a topic rather than a verse of the Bible."

There's a buzzword among ARC members: "Relevant."

Their service is relevant, pastors say, referring to rock music. The message is relevant, with sermons that are peppered with funny videos, often made by an in-house creative arts team. Pastors preach about marriages, raising young children and the power of positive thinking, and young, energetic clergy use examples from their own lives.

Even the dress code is relevant. Worshippers show up in shorts, flip-flops, even ball caps.

But, ARC officials are quick to point out, their pastors are ordained with the Assemblies of God, a more traditional Pentecostal denomination.

The message still focuses on Christ.

"The doctrine is the same, but the method has changed," Substance church Pastor Peter Haas said. Substance has
Corinne Skellenger of St. Paul praises the Lord during Sunday morning worship service at High Point Chrch in Inver Grove Heights, on November 6, 2011. (Pioneer Press: Scott Takushi)
grown so quickly, its Saturday night service is basically Haas, 36, recording a video message to play at four of seven Sunday services.

"I physically could not preach at all the campuses," Haas said. "But the funny thing is, people love it. It's church outside of the box."

About a half-dozen ARC churches are now among the fastest-growing and largest congregations in the country, members say.

'FREER TO REALLY WORSHIP'

On a recent Sunday in the Inver Grove Heights AMC movie theater, Terry and Jessica Pearson welcome worshippers at High Point Church with handshakes and smiles.

The couple, aged 30 and 29 respectively, are stationed in front of three tall, tastefully designed screens that read "Find Your Place," "Develop Your Faith," and "Live Your Potential."

Farina, the pastor, mills around the doughnut-munching, Caribou coffee-sipping crowd, outfitted with a slim, white microphone that fits behind his ear. Dressed in an untucked cowboy shirt with pearly buttons, carefully faded jeans and slick leather shoes, Farina is relaxed, making small-talk and mingling like he's at a house party.

His wife, Elizabeth Farina, a petite brunette, wears skinny jeans, brown knee-high boots, a teal cowl-neck top and gold medallion earrings. She, too, bustles from group to group, flashing a toothy smile. A few minutes after the appointed start time of the service, the pair enters the auditorium filled with members standing, dancing and crooning along with the band.

The Farinas take their place in the front row, punching the air with their fists and singing along as a guitarist plucks a turquoise-and-white Stratocaster alongside two keyboardists, another guitarist, a bassist and a drummer. The stage is outfitted with 10-foot white polka-dot screens. Not a crucifix or candle is in sight.

A few songs later, band members take their seats in the audience and announcements are made. Elizabeth Farina implores the crowd to help support the church's move to a new building in Eagan, likening giving to bargain shopping.

After a comedic video introduction, Tory Farina takes the stage and launches into a talk about toxic thoughts. He uses the popular book, "Eat This, Not That," to make his point, imploring his flock to "think this, not that."

About 125 audience members chuckle along, rapt with attention. He keeps it short, about 20 minutes, then encourages guests to pray with pastors stationed in the aisles. A few do.

Tearful members return to their seats, the band plays another song and that's it. The service is over.

"It means a lot more than going to anyplace we went before," Nancy Olson-Engebreth said, wiping tears from her eyes. "I just feel freer in service to really worship. It's a unique and refreshing outlook as to what church can be."

Olson-Engebreth said she and her husband, John Engebreth, previously attended traditional Christian churches. She explained why talking about High Point makes her so emotional:

"It's just, having always gone to church, but never having this feeling," she said. "It's different."

"But good different," her husband added.

BOUNDLESS GROWTH

Church "planting" isn't new. Baptists have been starting new, small local churches and letting them grow for decades.

In addition, the Emergent church movement began practicing alternative worship methods, including contemporary music and video sermons, before ARC came along.

ARC churches marry the two ideas, adding their own spin aimed specifically at millennials. But the group provides something more important than guidance: cash.

"We say, 'Let us help you on the front end,' " the ARC's Smith said. "It costs anywhere from $80,000 to $100,000 to start a church. We help them with the goal of becoming a self-sustaining church. We resource them so they are not alone. They start off stronger."

About 93 percent of ARC churches are going strong five years after they began. Smith said the national average for a new church lasting five years is between 20 percent and 40 percent.

Once a church is self-sustaining, it is expected to give back to the organization to help start more churches.

Pastor Rob Ketterling started River Valley Church in Apple Valley 16 years ago with a Bible study group in his living room.

Ketterling, 46, joined ARC shortly after its inception.

"It was one of those things that guys like myself around the nation said: 'We were doing it the hard way. Let's give them a financial start,' " Ketterling said.

River Valley now has four campuses, and more than 4,000 people attend Sunday services.

Their rock band writes its own music and recently released a CD that hit the Billboard chart.

The church's growth, Ketterling said, is boundless.

Ketterling has guided Substance and High Point, giving them a solid start and remaining as an adviser. He recently helped two pastors start a church in Northfield, called Canvas.

But he's looking even further. A couple of pastors in Valencia, Spain, have been replicating the River Valley model for three years. River Valley, he said, recently made the decision to help fund the church.

"There will be a River Valley in Valencia, Spain," Ketterling said.

Two of River Valley's campuses are church buildings given to them by dying traditional congregations.

One, in Faribault, had 40 members when the church gave its million-dollar building to River Valley. The building now swells with 400 guests on Sunday mornings.

In Minnetrista, the church was down to 12 people. Now, 200 attend.

Ketterling said it wasn't surprising that the churches decided to give away their infrastructure.

"It's like, you're an organ donor," he said. "In the event that you're dying, you're willing to give everything you have so someone else can live."


http://www.twincities.com/ci_19317332?source=most_viewed
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« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2011, 05:09:43 pm »

Yeah, these churches seem to just popping up all over the place.

At the local mall in my area, there's one of these so-called "churches" in the mall, where this church rents space from the movie theater inside. It was last year, I think, when they first started, and I met 2 of the people who were advertising the church in front. They looked like your typical, ordinary-looking, average-joe, plain-jain hillbilies, so things seemed to be OK at first. They talked about preaching truth, etc. And at one time we were on the same page when we ended up talking about the heresies of the NIV(!). However, once they said they read the NEW King James, red flags started popping up. No, I don't want to make a bible version issue in this thread, but for these people to see the heresies of the NIV, I was very surprised they embraced the New KJV.

Anyhow, as time went on, I would pass by to look in the room from the outside every time I was at the mall. Pretty much typical corporate marketing/ear-tickling/Emergent kind of stuff. No mention of the blood atonement of Jesus Christ at Calvary in their advertisements at all. And pretty much promotes "community". And yes, they do say how they "started off as a bible study in a home".

Seriously, if these home churches had any discernment, they wouldn't be going farther than outside of their home, much less invest alot of $$ into renting space at a mall(which is VERY expensive). Pt being that sometimes I wonder if these churches like mentioned in the OP that are just popping up everywhere and out of nowhere are being funded by the Illuminati. Yeah, when that church advertised themselves when they opened last year(the one in the mall in my area, that is), they sure were pretty clever in putting a couple of average joe/plain jane hillbilies to greet everyone. They sure fooled me.
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« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2011, 04:07:59 am »

Quote
But, ARC officials are quick to point out, their pastors are ordained with the Assemblies of God, a more traditional Pentecostal denomination.

And THAT is their problem! Churchianity by any theological color is still churchianity.
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« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2011, 02:52:44 am »

Church Flash Mob FAIL

Relevance fail. Flash Mob fail. This church self-help center needs to jettison the cheesy and badly executed attempts at relevance and do what Christ has called the church to do, proclaim repentance and the forgiveness of sins in Jesus name.

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« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2011, 02:54:00 am »

Northpoint Thriller?

We're beginning to wonder if Seeker churches are places for people without talent to pretend that they're TV stars so that they can have the pseudo-experience of living out their Hollywood dreams.

One thing is certain, these churches are like a perpetual never ending Jr. High drama production...A VERY EXPENSIVE perpetual never ending Jr. High drama production.

Why do we say they're expensive? Because the cost of admission to these churches is 10% of your gross income (a.k.a. the tithe). Ask yourself this question, if you make $60,000 per year is it worth $6,000 for you to sit through these 3rd rate Jr. high level drama productions followed by a self-help pop-psych pep-talk with 4 to 5 Bible verses ripped from context? Does God really expect you to sacrifice 10% of your income to support this?

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« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2011, 02:55:11 am »

Blessing Zone?

Is there any doubt left that the seeker-driven pastors are teaching a different religion? This isn't Biblical teaching. This is something completely foreign to the Historic Biblical Christian Faith.

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« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2011, 02:56:11 am »

Ozzy Osbourne's Crazy Train at NewSpring Florence

"Praise and Worship" time has hit a new low thanks to Perry Noble and the "praise" band at his Florence multi-site.

Here's video of Ozzy Osbourne's Crazy Train being performed in a "church" service.

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« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2011, 02:57:48 am »

Are Magic Circles Being Taught by Zondervan & Mark Batterson??

Watch this video and ask yourself a few questions:

Why would Zondervan, a Christian publishing company, be publishing a book and small group curriculum based on a story from the Jewish Mishnah?

What exactly is the difference between what Batterson and Zondervan are promoting and a Magic Circle?

Where does the Bible teach us to employ "Prayer Circles"?

Where does the Bible teach us that if we employ Prayer Circles that God will multiply miracles to us?


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« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2011, 02:59:49 am »

Move Over Worship Time, The Monsters are Coming to Getcha

Does anybody remember that not too long ago people would spend time in church praising and worshiping the LORD? Now, church has become a place where your up and coming starlet can get some much needed 'stage time'. Don't worry we're sure that God understands how important it is for your daughter to get some practice under her belt before next year's American Idol auditions. From the sound of it, she really needs it.

Thanks again goes to Circus by the Glades for yet another relevant exhibit here in the Museum of Idolatry.

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akfools
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« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2011, 03:01:03 am »

Gilligan's Island- St. Andrew's United Methodist Church Omaha

This doesn't make Christianity more relevant but less relevant! And it ruins Gilligan's Island, which was already bad enough.

This will not attract people to church but will drive them away!

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akfools
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« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2011, 03:03:34 am »

Circus Church...Literally

Church Circus by the Glades performs a sermon series to thrill and entertain.





http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6004/6207821653_9599689d6d.jpg

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akfools
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« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2011, 03:04:41 am »

Love Your Unsaved Neighbor by Beating the Snot Out of Him!

Nothing quite captures the love that Jesus has for the world like a Mix Martial Arts smack down in your church's parking lot.

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akfools
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« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2011, 03:06:02 am »

Holy Rollers-The True Story of Card Counting Christians

Maybe these guys can use their winnings to open a Christian Strip Club?

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akfools
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« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2011, 03:07:26 am »

Naked Old Church Men Calender

In the famous words of Gollum, "It burns us!"

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akfools
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« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2011, 03:09:05 am »


The Real Talladega Nights Prayer


Really?!?!?!

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akfools
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« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2011, 03:09:57 am »

Sympathy for the Devil???

This was performed in Northpoint Church Adult Youth Group, Springfield, MO on Easter Sunday, 2011.

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akfools
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« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2011, 03:10:48 am »

Flash Eucharist??

You've heard of Flash Mobs, well here we have a Flash Eucharist.

There is only ONE word for this: Blasphemy

These liberal, gay affirming "clergy" may want to consider what scripture says regarding the Eucharist:

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akfools
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« Reply #26 on: November 25, 2011, 03:11:49 am »

More Communion Blasphemy

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akfools
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« Reply #27 on: November 25, 2011, 03:12:58 am »

Sexpirament???

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akfools
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« Reply #28 on: November 25, 2011, 03:18:50 am »

I'm Jesus, Riverland man says

A COUPLE who say they are Jesus Christ and Mary Magdalene have set up base in Queensland's Bible Belt. Story Here.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/im-jesus-riverland-man-says/story-e6frea83-1226055976446

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akfools
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« Reply #29 on: November 25, 2011, 03:23:54 am »

F'd Up Sermon Series??

Brickcity Community Church's pastor thinks this is an appropriate way to market their church.

http://www.bccwired.com/

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