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Did Solomon Make It To Heaven?

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Author Topic: Did Solomon Make It To Heaven?  (Read 1249 times)
Kilika
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« on: December 01, 2011, 01:42:12 pm »

Mark said in a post at PPF that Solomon didn't make it to heaven (won't make it), and that he never repented of the evil he obviously committed with his many strange wives that he even built alters for.

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Quote from: Kilika on Today at 11:19:02 AM
I disagree. Show me where he didn't make it. Then explain if he didn't make it, why does scripture venerate him so? I see no verses that say Solomon didn't make it.

This is a good question I want to resolve, as I've heard people say it before, but they never produce proof.


Reply from Mark...

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Sure, he started out great, than was led astray by all his foreign wives he was not supposed to have, than he let those wives built altars in hig places to worship demons, to which he participated in so much so that he was practicing child sacrifice.

Just read 1 king's 11. The reason all the bad stuff happened was because of Solomon. Where does the New Testament look to Solomon for anything? He surly isnt mentioned in Hebrews 11? 12? the part where Paul is listing all these great old testament saints. Solomon is clearly missing. No where do we find where Solomon repented, in fact in 1 kings 11 we find that after the Lord punishes Solomon he seeks to murder Jeroboam.

1Ki 11:40   Solomon sought therefore to kill Jeroboam. And Jeroboam arose, and fled into Egypt, unto Shishak king of Egypt, and was in Egypt until the death of Solomon.
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Kilika
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« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2011, 02:56:11 pm »

Let's first look at the actions of Solomon, and what made God mad at him...

1   But king Solomon loved many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, [and] Hittites; 
2   Of the nations [concerning] which the LORD said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall not go in to them, neither shall they come in unto you: [for] surely they will turn away your heart after their gods: Solomon clave unto these in love. 
3   And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines: and his wives turned away his heart. 
4   For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, [that] his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the LORD his God, as [was] the heart of David his father. 
5   For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites. 
6   And Solomon did evil in the sight of the LORD, and went not fully after the LORD, as [did] David his father. 
7   Then did Solomon build an high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that [is] before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon. 
8   And likewise did he for all his strange wives, which burnt incense and sacrificed unto their gods. 
9 ¶ And the LORD was angry with Solomon, because his heart was turned from the LORD God of Israel, which had appeared unto him twice, 
10   And had commanded him concerning this thing, that he should not go after other gods: but he kept not that which the LORD commanded. 
11   Wherefore the LORD said unto Solomon, Forasmuch as this is done of thee, and thou hast not kept my covenant and my statutes, which I have commanded thee, I will surely rend the kingdom from thee, and will give it to thy servant. 
12   Notwithstanding in thy days I will not do it for David thy father's sake: [but] I will rend it out of the hand of thy son. 
13   Howbeit I will not rend away all the kingdom; [but] will give one tribe to thy son for David my servant's sake, and for Jerusalem's sake which I have chosen. 
14 ¶ And the LORD stirred up an adversary unto Solomon, Hadad the Edomite: he [was] of the king's seed in Edom. 
15   For it came to pass, when David was in Edom, and Joab the captain of the host was gone up to bury the slain, after he had smitten every male in Edom; 
16   (For six months did Joab remain there with all Israel, until he had cut off every male in Edom:) 
17   That Hadad fled, he and certain Edomites of his father's servants with him, to go into Egypt; Hadad [being] yet a little child. 
18   And they arose out of Midian, and came to Paran: and they took men with them out of Paran, and they came to Egypt, unto Pharaoh king of Egypt; which gave him an house, and appointed him victuals, and gave him land. 
19   And Hadad found great favour in the sight of Pharaoh, so that he gave him to wife the sister of his own wife, the sister of Tahpenes the queen. 
20   And the sister of Tahpenes bare him Genubath his son, whom Tahpenes weaned in Pharaoh's house: and Genubath was in Pharaoh's household among the sons of Pharaoh. 
21   And when Hadad heard in Egypt that David slept with his fathers, and that Joab the captain of the host was dead, Hadad said to Pharaoh, Let me depart, that I may go to mine own country. 
22   Then Pharaoh said unto him, But what hast thou lacked with me, that, behold, thou seekest to go to thine own country? And he answered, Nothing: howbeit let me go in any wise. 
23 ¶ And God stirred him up [another] adversary, Rezon the son of Eliadah, which fled from his lord Hadadezer king of Zobah: 
24   And he gathered men unto him, and became captain over a band, when David slew them [of Zobah]: and they went to Damascus, and dwelt therein, and reigned in Damascus. 
25   And he was an adversary to Israel all the days of Solomon, beside the mischief that Hadad [did]: and he abhorred Israel, and reigned over Syria. 
1 Kings 11:1-25 (KJB)


Now according to that account, God punished Solomon for his actions. It's described in verse 11 and 12. And the Syian king Hadad was a thorn in Israel's side all Solomons days, but it doesn't say here that Solomon was condemned for life eternal. Far from it. God punished Solomon and moved on.

But as you know Solomon wasn't finished!

Next does come Jeroboam, starting in verse 26. While Solomon sought to kill Jeroboam, he never did because the guy fled to Egypt till Solomon was dead, and we can see that Solomon was even buried in Jerusalem with David his father. I don't see that as being a testament of him being condemned. God didn't even take all the kingdoms from him.

This is what Jeroboam was told...

34   Howbeit I will not take the whole kingdom out of his hand: but I will make him prince all the days of his life for David my servant's sake, whom I chose, because he kept my commandments and my statutes: 
35   But I will take the kingdom out of his son's hand, and will give it unto thee, [even] ten tribes. 
36   And unto his son will I give one tribe, that David my servant may have a light alway before me in Jerusalem, the city which I have chosen me to put my name there. 
37   And I will take thee, and thou shalt reign according to all that thy soul desireth, and shalt be king over Israel. 
1 Kings 11:34-37 (KJB)


Again, I'm not seeing where Solomon was punished beyond the stripping of the kingdoms.

Consider also that we have a whole book of the bible that is named after him and written by him, so what's the deal? We don't have a book by Judas, or Jamnes!

And then we get to the New Testament. And this is what Jesus had to say...

"And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these." Matthew 6:29 (KJB)

Seems like a rather strange reference by Jesus if He had condemned Solomon.

"The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with the men of this generation, and condemn them: for she came from the utmost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon [is] here." Luke 11:31 (KJB)

Yet another interesting reference to Solomon by name. So I ask, why is it that Jesus keeps referencing him in actually a positive way? Is it maybe because Solomon wasn't viewed in the same way you allege?

God punished a lot of people in the Old Testament days for sure but they weren't condemned to hell, and many are lost and were condemened to hell. I just don't see it with Solomon. God punished David, a man after His own heart, several times. David even was guilty of accessory to murder, yet he stayed in favor with God, because why? God keeps His promises, and God had promised David.

Now the other point is that there is no evidence Solomon repented of his deeds. I need to look again, but I think I can agree with that point, that there is no mention of it. As you know, that isn't evidence he didn't do it of itself, but, it does appear he didn't as scripture doesn't say it like with others when they repent of their deeds.

But you have to admit Jeroboam was down right evil, and I suspect Solomon knew it, but that isn't in scripture, just a guess.

And yes, bad stuff happened, and Israel was turned over to Jeroboam, an evil wicked leader, and then his son too was evil.

He isn't mentioned in Hebrews 11, 12, so what? His name is everywhere else, and what's telling is that the last several references of him, in the NT, even by Jesus Himself, there is no mention of anything bad about him, in fact it's a positive reference.

This is hardly a bad commentary...

29   Now the rest of the acts of Solomon, first and last, [are] they not written in the book of Nathan the prophet, and in the prophecy of Ahijah the Shilonite, and in the visions of Iddo the seer against Jeroboam the son of Nebat? 
30   And Solomon reigned in Jerusalem over all Israel forty years. 
31   And Solomon slept with his fathers, and he was buried in the city of David his father: and Rehoboam his son reigned in his stead.
2 Chronicles 9:29-31 (KJB)


I'm just not buying it that Solomon was condemned to hell. I don't believe the evidence is there.
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Mark
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« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2011, 03:10:58 pm »

Need to keep reading.

1Ki 11:26 ¶ And Jeroboam the son of Nebat, an Ephrathite of Zereda, Solomon's servant, whose mother's name [was] Zeruah, a widow woman, even he lifted up [his] hand against the king. 


 1Ki 11:27   And this [was] the cause that he lifted up [his] hand against the king: Solomon built Millo, [and] repaired the breaches of the city of David his father. 


 1Ki 11:28   And the man Jeroboam [was] a mighty man of valour: and Solomon seeing the young man that he was industrious, he made him ruler over all the charge of the house of Joseph. 


 1Ki 11:29   And it came to pass at that time when Jeroboam went out of Jerusalem, that the prophet Ahijah the Shilonite found him in the way; and he had clad himself with a new garment; and they two [were] alone in the field: 


 1Ki 11:30   And Ahijah caught the new garment that [was] on him, and rent it [in] twelve pieces: 


 1Ki 11:31   And he said to Jeroboam, Take thee ten pieces: for thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel, Behold, I will rend the kingdom out of the hand of Solomon, and will give ten tribes to thee: 


 1Ki 11:32   (But he shall have one tribe for my servant David's sake, and for Jerusalem's sake, the city which I have chosen out of all the tribes of Israel:) 


 1Ki 11:33   Because that they have forsaken me, and have worshipped Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, Chemosh the god of the Moabites, and Milcom the god of the children of Ammon, and have not walked in my ways, to do [that which is] right in mine eyes, and [to keep] my statutes and my judgments, as [did] David his father. 


 1Ki 11:34   Howbeit I will not take the whole kingdom out of his hand: but I will make him prince all the days of his life for David my servant's sake, whom I chose, because he kept my commandments and my statutes: 


 1Ki 11:35   But I will take the kingdom out of his son's hand, and will give it unto thee, [even] ten tribes. 


 1Ki 11:36   And unto his son will I give one tribe, that David my servant may have a light alway before me in Jerusalem, the city which I have chosen me to put my name there. 


 1Ki 11:37   And I will take thee, and thou shalt reign according to all that thy soul desireth, and shalt be king over Israel. 


 1Ki 11:38   And it shall be, if thou wilt hearken unto all that I command thee, and wilt walk in my ways, and do [that is] right in my sight, to keep my statutes and my commandments, as David my servant did; that I will be with thee, and build thee a sure house, as I built for David, and will give Israel unto thee. 


 1Ki 11:39   And I will for this afflict the seed of David, but not for ever. 


 1Ki 11:40   Solomon sought therefore to kill Jeroboam. And Jeroboam arose, and fled into Egypt, unto Shishak king of Egypt, and was in Egypt until the death of Solomon. 


 1Ki 11:41 ¶ And the rest of the acts of Solomon, and all that he did, and his wisdom, [are] they not written in the book of the acts of Solomon? 


 1Ki 11:42   And the time that Solomon reigned in Jerusalem over all Israel [was] forty years. 


 1Ki 11:43   And Solomon slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David his father: and Rehoboam his son reigned in his stead. 


where did Solomon repent? Where did he turn from his wicked ways back to the Lord? It really looks like the Lord is giving Solomons kingdon to Jeroboam. and why?

1Ki 11:33   Because that they have forsaken me, and have worshipped Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, Chemosh the god of the Moabites, and Milcom the god of the children of Ammon, and have not walked in my ways, to do [that which is] right in mine eyes, and [to keep] my statutes and my judgments, as [did] David his father.  .


And than Solomon seeks to kill him, seems Solomon didnt remeber what befell Saul. Again, where is Solomons repentence? Its no where mentioned. He didnt tear down the high places, he didnt stop the sacrifices and worshipping of devils. What did he do?

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Kilika
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« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2011, 04:16:53 pm »

Yeah, I've read it all. And no, I'm not finding where he repented, or it says he repented. With other people, it does say when they repent, or at least there is some cases of it being stated specifically that they repented. Also there is cases where the person is said to have died and mentions they did evil, where as with others, like Solomon, it just says the died and were buried somewhere.

So, I agree, no repentence is mentioned that I can find. And I agree that scripture suggests that he continued with his evil till he no longer could and died.

But this verse I find interestng...

"Howbeit I will not take the whole kingdom out of his hand: but I will make him prince all the days of his life for David my servant's sake, whom I chose, because he kept my commandments and my statutes:" 1 Kings 11:34 (KJB)

This is talking about Solomon isn't it? God says He will make Solomon "prince all the days of his life..." That doesn't sound like a condemnation at all to me. Almost sounds like a reward.

God didn't take the whole Kingdom from him, but he did from his son Rehoboam, who it appears was worse than Solomon. So in actuality, God didn't do a thing to Solomon while he was alive it seems. The punishment came during his son's reign, right?

Is that a case to make he won't go to heaven? Hmm, I don't think so.

This is one of those little factoids of the body that is no doubt interesting, but one's salvation is for God to dcided, and in this case, I don't believe there is enough evidence to claim for a fact one way or another about Solomon. No mention of repentence isn't proof itself that he didn't repent. I do think if he had, it would have been mentioned though.

Then there is this verse...

"And I will for this afflict the seed of David, but not for ever." 1 Kings 11:39 (KJB)

Hmm, how then is Solomon punished eternally if the punishment for Israel isn't. Kind of strange isn't it? Part of the punishment was to "afflict the seed", but not forever. But Solomon is punished for ever? I'm thinking no.

So really, the bottom line is that the claim is based on scripture doesn't show repentence by Solomon. But what is missing?

What is missing is no mention of punishment beyond the kingdom issue. Solomon himself from there on is never refered to as evil. EVER, that I can find. He's always mentioned in some kind of positive light, even by Jesus.

So my position is that scripture doesn't say what happens to Solomon, but it APPEARS he wasn't condemned to hell.

God knows. 

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Mark
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« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2011, 04:46:58 pm »

This is talking about Solomon isn't it? God says He will make Solomon "prince all the days of his life..." That doesn't sound like a condemnation at all to me. Almost sounds like a reward.


Why did he do that? and no, it wasn't a reward or had anything to do with Solomon at all. Lets look...

but I will make him prince all the days of his life for David my servant's sake,whom I chose, because he kept my commandments and my statutes:

It all had to do with David. Not Solomon. Solomon was done with.

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Hmm, how then is Solomon punished eternally if the punishment for Israel isn't. Kind of strange isn't it? Part of the punishment was to "afflict the seed", but not forever. But Solomon is punished for ever? I'm thinking no.

The line couldnt be punished forever as Jesus was to come from that line. There were good kings also, just very few and far between. Still the punishment was for Solomons doings. And his sins were listed earlier.

1Ki 11:33   Because that they have forsaken me, and have worshipped Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, Chemosh the god of the Moabites, and Milcom the god of the children of Ammon, and have not walked in my ways, to do [that which is] right in mine eyes, and [to keep] my statutes and my judgments, as [did] David his father. 

and more than that..

Quote
What is missing is no mention of punishment beyond the kingdom issue. Solomon himself from there on is never referred to as evil. EVER, that I can find. He's always mentioned in some kind of positive light, even by Jesus.

So my position is that scripture doesn't say what happens to Solomon, but it APPEARS he wasn't condemned to hell.

What more should there be? It was his sins, and more that he did, that gets him a place in Hell. He started out good finished bad, it happens.

finish more later got to run....
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« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2011, 10:03:00 pm »

Could the book of Ecclesiastes be Solomon's repentence? Every time I read it, I get that impression.
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« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2011, 02:49:36 am »

I believe that Solomon went to Heaven as he wrote Proverbs, Ecclesiastes and Song of Solomon did he not? Wow 3 books of the Bible written by him and yet he is not worthy of Heaven? But wait there is more, the temple was built under King Solomon as a monument for God to reside in. Did the ancient Rabbi's believe he went to hell? Did the Lord Jesus say he went to hell as a warning for the Jews? No he didn't. I think the reason that Solomon is not listed as a great man of God is because of his finish. But if you were in Solomon's situation and with the power he had would you commit any sins like he did?

Plus King David being his Dad would not David want his son to be in Heaven?

So looking at this in this way we can see that Solomon is in Heaven but is probably in a poor position compared to Abraham, Noah and Jeremiah.
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« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2011, 10:45:47 am »

i agree i don't even think saul went to hell, samuel said 'you and your sons will be with me'. i don't think solomon lost his faith, how can u if God spoke to you and asked u what you wanted. this also makes me think of essau, God hated him. I mean if God could forgive murderers, aduterers...how evil was essau? i know he gave up his birth right, but it seems really harsh for hate. but hey i trust God's judgement and righteousness.
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Lisa
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« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2011, 11:36:02 am »

Titus 3

 9But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

Leave vthis question to God-many things you will not know the answer to...
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« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2016, 10:50:01 am »

He makes some good points about how Solomon wasn't mentioned in Hebrews 11 (the faith hall of fame, that is) - even Samson was mentioned in this list. On the contrary Solomon was mentioned in somewhat detail in other books in the New Testament. Maybe Hebrews 11 is talking about rewards at the judgment seat? (ie, I believe even some of the good fruited ministries out there, that have lead souls to the LORD, could very well have their works burned up at the judgment seat, b/c they weren't in the will of God for a number of reasons)

I guess the saying is true, "It's not how you start, but it's how you finish". I guess we all won't know until we meet Jesus Christ in the clouds at the rapture.

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« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2016, 03:58:15 am »

Finally listened to this, he quoted me almost word for word.  Grin
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« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2016, 12:32:35 am »

Pope Honorius III
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Honorius_III

Pope Honorius III (1150 – 18 March 1227), born as Cencio Savelli, was Pope from 18 July 1216 to his death in 1227.

Writings

Honorius III acquired some fame as an author. The most important of his writings is the Liber censuum Romanae ecclesiae, which is the most valuable source for the medieval position of the Church in regard to property and also serves in part as a continuation of the Liber Pontificalis. It comprises a list of the revenues of the Apostolic See, a record of donations received, privileges granted, and contracts made with cities and rulers. It was begun under Pope Clement III and completed in 1192 under Pope Celestine III. The original manuscript of the Liber Censuum is still in existence (Vaticanus latinus 8486).[8]

Honorius III also wrote a biography of Celestine III; a biography of Gregory VII; an "Ordo Romanus", which is a sort of ceremonial containing the rites of the Church for various occasions; and thirty-four sermons.[9]

Honorius is also purported to be the author of a grimoire.[10] "In this text called The Grimoire of Pope Honorius, he supposedly discusses the value of occult knowledge in the Church, and how by summoning or raising demonic entities, one could learn to control them. The supposed author uses his faith in God and mixes with it the teachings of King Solomon; it contains invocations of demonic entities for every day of the week. He talked about the priest needing to fast for a certain amount of time and the sacrifice of animals in order to help with the binding of evil spirits." [11] All this would be in contrast, however, with the pope's insistence on bishops knowing Catholic theology and as being contrary to the Catholic teaching on witchcraft or sorcery as also seen in both the Old and New Testaments and early Church councils (Catholic Encyclopedia, article "Witchcraft").
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