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Luke 17:21 KJV Under Heavy Attack

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Author Topic: Luke 17:21 KJV Under Heavy Attack  (Read 485 times)
Christian40
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« on: December 09, 2011, 03:22:28 am »

I got this message today and i'm working out how to respond

"I read over some of it and it is an interesting read, but it doesnt change my mind about the KJV Bible. I believe the Greek and Hebrew are the God Inspired Word and that the KJV is the best English Translation we have as it is based on the Real Word of God the Textus Receptus. But I am not a Hippie that thinks some other version in and of itself is better, I am one to simply state the facts that some words are better clarified in certain contexts apart from this English Translation.

The quickest example is:

Luke 17: 21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Due to this Translation the True Hippies and Gnostics take it to mean that the Kingdom of God is within us and we need to look within to find it. This isnt correct nor is it what Jesus was saying IN CONTEXT of the actions taking place and to whom He was speaking.

The Word Here in the Greek is:

1787. entos

entos: within, among
Original Word: ἐντός
Part of Speech: Adverb
Transliteration: entos
Phonetic Spelling: (en-tos')

So it has the understanding of Within OR Among, and the Context would determine which word is most fitting in the English Language. It makes no sense for Jesus to be telling the Pharisees whom He is addressing here, whom He calls as the Thread you posted states, liars hypocrites snakes and are white washed tombs blatantly identifying their souls WITHIN Them, that THEY have the Kingdom of God inside of them. They didnt, they rejected Christ and we KNOW that all who reject Christ NEVER will have the Kingdom, ONLY those who Repent Confess and Believe on Him Receive the Kingdom which is the Holy Spirit which is God.

What make sense in Context is Jesus telling the Pharisees that the answer to their question of "when the kingdom of God should come", which is the Kingdom is AMONG YOU, because He was the Kingdom, He was God on Earth among them, the Kingdom was there.

So even tho the KJV is by far the best English Translation it does contain words here and there that are better translated into English than what is written in the KJV, the Greek is Perfect the KJV is the Best English Translation. Ive spent wayyy to much time reading and learning the Greek and Hebrew to say that the KJV is Perfect, its not, but I defend it as the Best and I utterly have Faith that the Greek and Hebrew its based on IS Perfect."


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Mark
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« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2011, 03:52:17 am »

The Kingdom of God that the Lord spoke of was his spiritual kingdom, not a physical one. You could only join the kingdom by being born again and getting your spirit right on the inside. This would exclude the pharisees and saudicess as they would not have the Spirit in them.

So when the Lord said it is in you he is speaking of the new birth which is spiritual. If the word here was AMONG you then that would make it open to anyone, which it wasn't.

This is the same as the narrow gate and the wide gate.

SO again the KJB gets it right and all modern Catholic new age Bibles gets it wrong, as usual.
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Kilika
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« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2011, 04:22:53 am »

"God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth." John 4:24 (KJB)

16   But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; 
17   And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: 
18   And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: 
19   And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: 
20   The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: 
21   And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. 
Acts 2:16-21 (KJB)


19   But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 
20   For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you. 
Matthew 10:19,20 (KJB)


16   And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 
17   [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
John 14:16,17 (KJB)


"But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26 (KJB)
« Last Edit: December 09, 2011, 04:30:36 am by Kilika » Report Spam   Logged
PeanutGallery
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« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2011, 08:14:25 am »

Luke 17: 21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
It's all about the work of the gospel and the Holy Spirit working within you.

Rom_2:29  But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Heb 4:12  For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Rom 10:8  But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
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« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2011, 08:23:49 am »

The Kingdom of God that the Lord spoke of was his spiritual kingdom, not a physical one.
Yeppir, there is a difference.
Kingdom of God is spiritual and everlasting.
Kingdom of heaven is physical and will descend at the time of Millenium.
.........
But I suspect someone will discuss it's similarity in the four gospels with using both terms in the same context, such as:
Matt 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
Luke 13:28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

Both are true; they cannot enter the kingdom of heaven until they are first entered into the kingdom of God.
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« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2011, 08:30:32 am »

"I read over some of it and it is an interesting read, but it doesnt change my mind about the KJV Bible. I believe the Greek and Hebrew are the God Inspired Word and that the KJV is the best English Translation we have ...  Ive spent wayyy to much time reading and learning the Greek and Hebrew to say that the KJV is Perfect,
There's your dilemna; you don't believe that God has preserved His words in the KJB.
So, when you run into an apparent error, you question the KJB; your first thought should be God did not make an error in the KJB, therefore, I must study the passage to gain a better understanding.
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Christian40
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« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2011, 02:59:11 am »

Yeah the answer is pretty easy when you think about it, yet from my experience this verse gets attacked more than the other verses in the KJV. It is helpful to know which verses get attacked the most in the KJV because then you can have a prepared response and just post it back to the person and they may be stumped or agree with you. Are there any verses you find get attacked more than others in the KJV? You could list them here if you want to. I will get back to this person with your answers so they can understand it. In the back of my mind i had come across this verse before of course but i could not think of an answer at the time and so i decided the wisest response would be to think about the response and get back to it later not wanting to be hasty and miss the mark. So it was worth posting the question.
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« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2011, 09:18:25 am »

I usually start here:
http://brandplucked.webs.com/articles.htm
------------
After that, I do web searches.
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Christian40
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« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2011, 03:22:10 am »

Thanks that was very helpful Smiley
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Christian40
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« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2011, 02:56:50 am »

ps (postscript)

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Ancient interpreters take the expression “within you” as pointing out the fact that the kingdom is an inward, spiritual one, having its seat in the heart. Modern critics say that the kingdom had already been set up among the Pharisees by John the Baptist and the Messiah, the former introducing it, the latter embodying and representing it.

Schoettgen: “It does not imply, in your hearts, but in your land and region.”

Alford: “The kingdom of God was begun among them, and continues thus making its way in the world, without observation of men.”

Alleged Discrepancies of the Bible by John W Haley 1921
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