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Need your prayers on this issue...

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http://www.naturalnews.com/2017-08-11-new-fda-approved-hepatitis-b-vaccine-found-to-increase-heart-attack-risk-by-700.html
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September 11, 2017, 06:59:33 am Psalm 51:17 says: The law of reaping and sowing. It's amazing how God's mercy and longsuffering has hovered over America so long. (ie, the infrastructure is very bad here b/c for many years, they were grossly underspent on. 1st Tim 6:10, the god of materialism has its roots firmly in the West) And remember once upon a time ago when shacking up b/w straight couples drew shock awe?

Exodus 20:5  Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
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Psalm 51:17
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« on: October 12, 2011, 02:48:54 pm »

First off, before I request a needed prayer request here, could you look at this church's web site and tell me what you think? Just forget about the 501c3 tag for a moment when looking at this site.(ie-the main symbol at the top, at least to me, looks like a repackaged version of that "all seeing eye", but that's just me)

http://www.valleycreek.org/

Anyhow, 2 years ago me and my parents went to a Chinese New Year's festival at this church, b/c my parents know some in the Chinese community here. Just to make a long story short - this pastor does missionary work in China, seems to know the Chinese community here(which is probably how he and my parents crossed paths, and they've been emailing each other since), and is willing to help out with one of the Chinese people that was here for several months until she had to go back. This woman wants to start a church in China(she got saved when she was here), and this pastor wants to help out.

Here's what's bothering me - like I said, please view the site and tell me what you think. But having been in that church - It's a megachurch with a Starbucks Coffee shop, a little play gym for kids called "God's Gym", the non-members have to park in "Guest" parking lots, it's yoked up with Purpose Driven, I can go on and on(and to add too that having been to that Chinese New Year's celebration festival over there 2 years ago, it was pure pagan). Also, this pastor's right side of his email is "cultivateleadership"(ie-the Emergent Church is so heavy into these leadership conferences). And like I said above, the symbol at the very top of the page looks like a repackaged version of that "all seeing eye".

Something just bothers me about this pastor, and I really need prayers here b/c I need some wisdom over how I can approach my mom about this(ie-it's not like I have to go abruptly to her and throw hot water everywhere), and how maybe hopefully the Lord, if it's his will, will distance this pastor from us. I'm not saying he's a Satanist, but at the very least he looks like a sellout who may be yoking himself with a ton of mud.

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Lisa
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« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2011, 04:41:12 pm »

I have not opened the link and will do so later but feel that i must relay what the Holy spirit has shown me as i read this...You have already had lots of flags and a dis-ease in your spirit. This is called the gift of discernment of spirit. You dont need any more advice from other believers. You are alerted in your spirit-if you now need other believers to tell you what to do i believe that you will be quenching the spirit-Yes you may get their take but this is like a test for you.
When i first had the gift i was in a similar (small) church and became hyper alert...No-one else was getting any dis-ease and so i had to rely on the spirit-Always-Ok Lord what now...sometimes he would say remove yourself. Another time he told me to talk (whatever words he gave me) to a back slidden pastor. Another time he gave me exact words that totally wrecked the teaching of an apostate preacher (went down like a lead ballon).

Do you need our further feed-back or do you want to pray and go with what Abba tells you (he will i promise give you very exact instructions on how to deal with this). I think hes tring to give you the gift but you goota be strong enough to use it.

Blessings
lisax
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« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2011, 05:33:51 pm »

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Valley Creek is a nondenominational church that welcomes people from a variety of backgrounds.
Ecumenical? Chrislam?
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« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2011, 05:59:14 pm »

BA,

    We are to be ye separate. I don't understand your reasoning in choosing to continue to attend a 501c3, apostate church just because your parents do. I find no reason in this. I don't understand everything and I am not in your shoes, but how do you reprove and rebuke what is wrong if you go and take part in it? Isn't it better to lead others by example? Aren't you unequally yoking yourself by attending an apostate church knowing they are wrong?

I will pray that the Lord will lead you away from these religious corporate abominations and that your parents will love the Lord enough to follow Him. Most professing christians love religion and churchianity more than they love the Lord. You know this. Are your parents different? Are they willing to follow the Lord rather than man?
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Lisa
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« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2011, 05:00:43 pm »

Ok heres my observations
1. Glossy website-typical emergent church stuff (they are ten a penny nothing different possibly less offensive and in your face than lots).
2. No linked websites-so they are giving nothing away in terms of who they link to.
3. Lots of give aways RE emergent church in terms of buzz words and phraseology-its pure emergent.
4. They are not obviously KJV but i couldnt be bothered to check which translation-not KJV is good enough.
5. There mission statement page is simply the same rehashed mission statement that most websites have-no mention of Christs atoning BLOOD sacrifice but the gospel sounds acceptable (ie not sinners prayer).
6. There are job adverts for pastoral posts-this is pure world church stuff (only God appoints positions in His church).
7. As i was about to finish i felt that i should add (felt the Holy spirit would have me give you this word of wisdome)-it may not be a wrong thing for you to be there necessarily. Remember that the resistance did a sterling job behind enemy lines. In my travels to apostate churches i have picked up a motley bunch of folk who were confused about what was going on and i have been able to teach and exhort and plug them into better expressions of Christs church on earth. Pray-you will know very soon who you may be looking for-you will often sit beside them and they will start to seak you out. I usually found that i had chance to share my opinions in a gentle manner and possible swap email addresses. Dunno just a thought.

Lisax
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Psalm 51:17
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« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2011, 05:24:02 pm »

Just to clarify, I don't attend this church - the way I wrote it in the OP was a little confusing - it was in the Fall 2009 when the Chinese New Year festival was going on, and this particular church decided to host it. B/c my parents know people here in the Chinese community, we decided to go(and the univs here in the city sponsored it as well).

This was the only time I attended it.(and the Chinese people that attend the church I and my parents go to will sporadically go there if they have trips, events, et al) With that being said, the way this festivital was celebrated at this church, it was pure pagan(and there was one time when the pastor's teen daughters were doing a skit on stage in provocating clothing). The only time the pastor mentioned Jesus Christ was toward the end, and he sounded like he said it just to make himself look Christian.

Any more comments I would appreciate it - thank you for all of your comments and prayers(thank you for the pms ak and Lisa).

Also, here's what is my gripe about all this - as we all know, churches and other NFPs aren't exactly private businesses that are in the business of selling and making money, quite simply b/c they LARGELY get their money from donations. But en yet, when the average Christian sees a megachurch like this, their reactions are like, "This church is hugely blessed!", "The pastor built this church with his own bare hands after starting from scratch and was ultimately blessed!"(which is my mom's reaction), etc, etc.

Again, I'll admit I'm speaking from a secular POV, but common sense obviously says any organization that largely gets its support from DONATIONS, and somehow blossoms into some rich empire SHOULD raise some RED FLAGS.

OTOH, look at the typical home church - Bryan Denlinger says that the donations box is put in some back room to where people can just sneak in and out while going unoticed(not letting their left hand know what their right hand doeth). His home church may not get much donations, but it's more than enough to buy tracts, among other things when they go around the city preaching to the lost.
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« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2011, 09:04:04 am »

More ramblings from an old timer....
Once was in An anglican church (not sure if you know what that is-its dead google it). Dunno why-had heard the voice of the Holy spirit command me to worship there for a bit.
Well the back-slidden old geezer who was preaching starts muttering on about folk not being able to hear Gods voice any more (the week before the preacher-who was i believe a homosexual-had preached for 30 mins on using tigers in advertising, without a mention of ANYTHING remotely Christian-lol). So anyway I said pretty loud from the back pew...'thats not what it says in my bible if you read John 10. To which a lovely lady in front of me said-Yep i have that in my bible too and it was my teaching in my quiet time yesterday (she was struggling in the church and it was the way we connected).
The Old geezer was actually dead sweet and we spoke at the end of the 'sermon' and he confessed that God did used to speak to him when he was young and that he had had the saying 'God doesnt speak to us now drummed into him like a mantra in bible college' he was actually in tears as he told me that.

I have 'had to leave' more churches/ internet forums than i would like to remember-But ive had a cool time with the Lord in the process. Hey maybe thats my gifting from the Holy spirit-End time church trouble maker!!!!
(Reminds me of school-maybe God was looking down and chose me just coz i was a trouble maker-I joke I dont really believe that...but you gotta wonder-LOL).

L
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« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2011, 11:05:57 am »

Someone commented to me yesterday that there is a deacon at a church that would occassionally drink beers(sounded like he goes to bars too). BUT, he said how "we shouldn't be judging him". Seriously, at the very least, shouldn't his deacon duties be RELIEVED? Shouldn't he at least be held to some accountability? Shouldn't he at least be an EXAMPLE to other believers with him being in that position like scripture says?

And, of course, someone it's wrong and evil if, let's say, we point out the errors of the Pope, b/c we would be "judging" him too. While God will judge him, at the same time, it's OK for the Pope's minions to infiltrate churches and it's wrong for us to say anything about it. Angry I guess when Paul cried day and night over wolves entering in unawares, then using all this logic they say, he must have done it in vain.  Angry

Churchianity has become a joke, a big joke - to be honest, yes, I feel uncomfortable going into church buildings now, and this feeling was no different from when I was unsaved/lukewarm and going into church buildings then. Something just didn't seem right since I've been going for over 20 years. The reason why I go is to look after my older parents. I understand what you all say, but at the same time, I try to daydream during the sermon(or read my bible). I mean it's just DEAD inside, and now I end up watching the football game instead of going to the 6pm service. And on top of that, Churchianity just puts so much guilt on you, despite the fact we've already been freed by the blood atonement of Jesus Christ. For example, can't tell you how many times we've been told that Christians *have to vote* in elections(to boot it has to be the Republican candidate). And, of course, the nonsense tithe issue.

Gal 2:4  And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:
Gal 2:5  To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

Gal 3:10  For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Gal 3:11  But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Gal 3:12  And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Gal 3:13  Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Gal 3:14  That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith
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« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2011, 01:13:55 pm »

OK, something just occured to me when I was out today - when my mom brought up how this pastor is helping out one of the Chinese people(that was here) to build a church over in China(a church BUILDING, that is), it occured to me that a couple of months ago, it was reported on the news that Christians in China who have home churches/are in underground are getting persecution. And it was in that same article I believe that said how the Chinese government prefers Christians to be in church buildings b/c that way, they will have to get a license AND have to follow China's laws.

Yes, the 501c3 tag has really hindered churches here, but it is FAR, FAR worse over in China where direct government laws are over the licensed church's heads, to the point where they can't preach a good portion of the bible b/c of these laws.

And it also occured to me that one of the Emergent Church's agendas is CHURCH PLANTING, and it has NOTHING to do with spreading the gospel, but MERELY building a bunch of church buildings around the world welcoming anyone to come in. To boot, if I understand this correctly, those involved in church planting will get a % cut(money, that is) for every church they go out and help build for someone.

No wonder why this pastor's ministry is so rich. Anyhow, I hope I can warn this to my mom, at least the part about the Chinese girl getting help from this pastor to build a church building in China which is a NO-NO.
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« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2011, 11:41:51 pm »

OK, I have an update here...

Was in Austin, TX for the last 2 days - finally had an opportunity to show my mom an article over Christian persecution on home churches in China, and then the church and its pastor(the web site I posted in the OP).

First she interpreted it as 1) The home church people were at fault for praying in a public square, DESPITE the fact that the article CLEARLY stated that they had nowhere to worship at the time, 2) Even though the article said that non-home churches(buildings, that is) have to register with the country AND follow China's laws, she didn't think it was a big deal, for example saying how there could be Christians in China's government, and we're lambs among wolves anyways, and 3) Through persecution alot of good will come out of it(even though the article DOES state that it's been a RECENT thing, even though the home churces are unregistered and are NOT violating any laws).

Then I found a good opportunity to mention this pastor, which is doing missionary work in China(and is trying to help this Chinese girl we knew here to form a church). I told my mom to be careful b/c alot of red flags went up when I saw the inside of his church and his web site awhile back. Here's was what her responses were...

1) I told her that it's wrong for a church to have Starbuck's(among other secular eating places) in churches, and pointed out scripture how Jesus threw out the money changes in the temple saying how this is a HOUSE OF PRAYER. And she responded how there was nothing wrong with this, how the pastor was using this revenue for missionary work, and even went as far as saying I was nitpicking and misunderstanding scripture(saying how supposedly it was in the *sanctuary* that they were doing money changing in, while in this church it was OUTSIDE the sanctuary). Whatever...I mean we can spin it all we want...God's word never lies.

2) I told her how there was an ad for a secular film in his church, and she thought I was seeing something wrong. And I also pointed out how he had a little kids gym to play in called "God's Gym", which is blasphemous, and she also thought there was nothing wrong with it saying pretty much how "Yes, all things are God's, there's nothing wrong with that".

3) When I brought up the New Year's Chinese celebration that we attended, and told her it wasn't right for the church to allow the Chinese people to perform skit after skit with their pagan celebrations, she was still in disbelief saying how "But we have to witness to them. It was right for him to let them do what they want first, but he did say he loves Jesus and handed out Chinese language bibles to them at the end. There's no other way he would have witnessed to them". I then pointed out to her OT prophets like Isaiah and Jeremiah over how they warned over polluting the temple et al with idolatry and pagan practices, as well as NT passages about friendship with the world, but she still wouldn't listen.

Seriously, this pastor never said one word about the blood atonement of Jesus Christ that evening. I mean whether he witnessed to them at the beginning or end, or whether or not he let them perform their pagan rituals, again...double whammy right here.

4) There were a few other things, but pretty much she thought I was going off the deep end. When I brought up the Emergent Church and said how one of the agendas of this movement was to bring the youth at the forefront alot more, her response was that "These young children are exposed to sex, drugs, and alot of current day wickedness. We need to cater to them a bit to get them saved". And she even went on to say she met a pastor who said how we do need to give in to the younger people in terms of hymn singing and let them do their own contemporary stuff, and even went as far as saying how some of today's parents are TOO STRICT, which is why today's youth rebel.

HUH?!? Whatever happened to that bible verse over to training your child(the Proverbs verse, it's late and it escapes me now)? Or how about the NT verse saying to honor your parents which is the FIRST COMMANDMENT WITH PROMISE? Now it's the PARENT'S FAULT if they're TOO STRICT?!?

Overall, she thought I was unfairly criticizing this pastor, and how this pastor was doing so many good things. Sad

Seriously, it seems like people in higher positions can no longer be held accountable anymore. And for that matter too, we have to follow these same people BLINDLY. I got so worn out at day's end, that I'll admit, I ended up giving in and just told my mom "This pastor may seem like a nice guy, but after so many years of watching my back, it's time I watch your's". Yeah, I know I softened up and DIDN'T please God, but at the same time, I can't tell you how while I'm thankful that for the most part Jesus Christ helped me to stand for most of the day, it just amazes me how rotten Churchianity has become.

I know I've ranted a bit too much here, but to be honest, this is the only place(as well as another forum I frequent) where I can have some true fellowship.
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« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2011, 11:21:37 am »

I have been there seen it got the tee shirt. You need to say your piece and then pray-its a spiritual thing. God allows this to happen...
Here is why.

4.1 Corinthians 11:19
For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
1 Corinthians 11:18-20 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 11 (Whole Chapter)

How do we know each other? Spiritually and...ye shall know them by their fruit.
Not many of us around chick. But as it gets darker the light will shine brighter.

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« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2011, 11:43:48 am »

I have been there seen it got the tee shirt. You need to say your piece and then pray-its a spiritual thing. God allows this to happen...
Here is why.

4.1 Corinthians 11:19
For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
1 Corinthians 11:18-20 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 11 (Whole Chapter)

How do we know each other? Spiritually and...ye shall know them by their fruit.
Not many of us around chick. But as it gets darker the light will shine brighter.

Thank you for the kind words here - yeah, sometimes we forget that these things are supposed to come to pass. Here's a bit of some good news though - my mom admitted she learned a little bit from me, and asked me if we could share scripture with each other daily. I will admit too, I learned a bit from her yesterday. Yes, I thank the Lord Jesus for giving me discernment, however, it's not like I have everything figured out, nor will ever have everything figured out.

I mean the big problem with Churchianity today is that they try to rationalize things a bit, instead of taking the sola scripture approach. Countless times I've heard the "but times have changed" excuse.(ie-forgot to mention above that I mentioned to her as well about the Leadership heresies that the Emergent Church has used on their agendas, where they would invite secular people like Kenneth Starr[former prosecuting attorning against Clinton's scandals] or some President of some big corporation to speak at these conferences - even she thought there was nothing wrong with that) Again, quoted appropriate scripture, but she thought I was misinterpreting it.

Again, thank you all for the kind words here. Also, another point Churchianity seems to miss is that ONLY GOD gives the increase(ie-I hear alot how they say it's urgent for Christians to witness to these certain group of people, and then go as far as compromising everything to get their tails in the church buildings). Again, ONLY GOD gives the increase.
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« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2011, 02:34:46 pm »

Regarding the gift-top tip-Dont fret about having it sussed. I think i had it best when i didnt know a thing-i just relyed upon the Holy spirit. Its this sort of nagging feeling that somethings not right, not because i figure i know better but because the Holy spirit is disturbed. THen pray-OKay Lord whats wrong/what shall i do now-its your call. Sometimes he will guide your eyes to say look at a piece of jewellry or a hidden tattoo-I dunno-Its different each time. But the best start is admitting you know nothing-he can work with that just fine.
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« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2011, 06:42:49 pm »

Here's a passage Churchianity needs to sink their teeth into...

Jas 4:11  Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.

Notice the word BRETHREN here - honestly, would anyone consider pastors of big megachurches "brethren"? No, I'm not saying we should speak evil of them(the word is REBUKE, we need to use the word of God to REBUKE them), but just looking at another side here...again, are people like Joel Osteen and Eddie Long *brethren*? For those that the Lord loveth doesn't he chasteneth them? And if they are without chesteneth, they are NOT sons of God, but BASTARDS? So yeah, pastors of big megachurches who are out of line...you know what I'm trying to drive home here...

So yeah, before Churchianity starts getting PC about "Judge yet not, lest ye be judged", maybe they should look at this particular passage, and see other sides of it like I mentioned above.
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« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2011, 12:15:43 pm »

This morning at breakfast, my mom commented to my dad and me that our previous pastor in our previous city is arrogant. Yes, she correctly stated this(this is my impression of him too). And when we were there a few years ago, she pointed out how he was almost always quietly asking the congregation to give money during his sermons(even though it had nothing to do with his sermons), and would also point out that at every opportunity, he would openly put more favor to the wealthier people(ie-once a year or so when couples with new borns were honored on the podium, he would do so pretty subtlely to the wealther ones). Anyhow, yeah, overall, he's pretty arrogant(ie-one of his traits is that if he didn't like particular pew people, he would subtlely give them the cold shoulder, like us - and I noticed one of his deacons started acting like this as well after awhile). And to throw this out there too, my mom has noticed errors coming out of our current pastor's pulpit(no, they're not the "little" errors that come out of flesh as pastors are flesh too, if you know what I mean).

Anyhow, point here is that everytime this level of discernment comes up with leaders in our church, it would end up coming to a stopping point where the conclusion becomes, "We shouldn't judge them b/c only God is the judge", or for that matter "They're not infallible and not perfect, after all look at his background he came from, yada, yada, yada". So IOW, in their unperfect state, God has a place for these pastors and deacons in heaven, even though they get out of line too much without rebuke.

For the record, no, Christianity is not the Alex Jones-movement where God commands everyone to gather up an army with guns and to fight evil within the church walls this way. We're supposed to mark them, avoid them, and run, run, run away from them. Again, nowhere in scripture does it say we have to fight them, or even get a bullhorn out and yell on the streets how 501c3 churches are evil.

Ultimately, they go from "We shouldn't judge them" to "We have to be friends with them and have fellowship with them". So why not follow everyone blindly, like the Daila Lama, as well? Why not jump off the Empire State Building if a group of people are, b/c after all, if we try to warn them not to, we would be judging and hating them, right?

Ultimately, it's not necessarily the lack of discernment among people I know, but it's how they ULTIMATELY REACT. I even get these comments about Rick Warren and Joel Osteen(ie-how we shouldn't judge them). Again, it's not like we're going on a witchhunt against our unbelieving or lukewarm neighbor Christian that lives a few houses down from us. These are pastors that are heads of potentially big congregations, and in some cases have way too much influence over alot of affairs.
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« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2011, 03:08:06 pm »

On judging.. I think, well, we are to help those in the church stay true to the gospel; that all being said - judging a person at face value and judging actions can be two different things, indeed.

After all; should we not place a judgment on those who's actions clearly are contrary and damaging to God's word?


Quote
1 Corinthians 5

9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people—
10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world.
11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.
12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”

1 Corinthians 6 - goes on more as well about it.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians+5&version=NIV

Of course, on the 'drinking beer' thing - that's also dependent on if it's done in Moderation, in my humble opinion. I, for one, drink on occasion, but not too often.
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... knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.”  (2 Peter 3)
Lisa
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« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2011, 04:35:24 am »

RE Judgement-This was a bible study that i wrote out ages ago and i think it is a worth-while scriptural discussion of this issue...

 
Matthew 7
 1Judge not, that ye be not judged.  2For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.  3And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?  4Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?  5Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Here our Lord is telling us not to look down on someone for ungodly behaviours that we share. But contrast this to;

John 7 vs

 24Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Hence there is biblically good and bad judgement.
1 Cor 2 vs

 15But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

Also 1 Cor 5 vs

 11But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.  12For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?  13But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

(The non christian is not our business-only to preach Christ to them-the rest is Gods job).

1 Cor 6 vs

 2Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?  3Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

Math 7 vs   

 15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.  16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?  17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.  18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.  19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.  20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Just thought that seeing as i stumbled across the study it was worth examining the statement. In reality i used to not judge but as i have gotten older in the Lord I think its pretty foolhardy to hold no opinion. Wish i had judged more over the years rather than less. Im now really picky....

Also

2 Tim 2 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 
2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
 
Titus 3
3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; 
3:11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.
 
Titus 1
1:10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: 
1:11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
 
Isaiah 8 vs 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
 
We have caused our own weakness by not exerting biblical authority in the church... 

L
 
 


L
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« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2011, 04:24:36 am »

Looking back i would have liked it if someone rebuked, corrected, judged, instructed me about the King James Bible 10 years ago. I would be in a better position now. But God had His perfect timing and when i found Dr Johnson at sermonaudio i learnt all sorts of new things eventhough i would tell you that i was a Christian and the had the Bible in English - the NIV. There are many with the NIV and i think we need to target them people and show them the truth in the King James Bible. I mean you could do that in one page! But a more deeper study for them would be better. You may not win them overnight but any one who calls themselves a Christian will look into the Bible Version issue, if they dont care what Bible they read are they really Christian? Maybe so, but they need that wake up call, they might get upset and that but they could end up thanking you for telling them the truth.
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« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2011, 04:41:16 am »

Revelation 2
 1Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;

 2I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

 3And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.

 4Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

 5Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Dont worry about the bible versions or getting the Jews home-If you get chance put a good word in, help in that direction but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE...DO the first works.....

PREACH THE GOSPEL

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« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2011, 08:59:11 am »

Well, thought I would share this - it was over on PPF when for a LONG time, I had these avatars of beautiful, lust-looking Hollywood movie stars. One of them, believe it or not, is a New Ager who has her own New Age magazine(and practices in the Kaballah), Gwyneth Paltrow. But afterwards I changed avatars to another one of these Hollywood stars, and it was Kilika(if you don't mind me calling you out here again) who pm'd me there and told me that as Christians, having these female avatars is WRONG, and pointed me to appropriate scripture over why it was so.

I'll be honest with you guys - I KNEW it was wrong all along, but I had this attitude of "I've been obedient to the Lord most of the time, I'm not perfect, I do read my KJV daily and witness to others, blah, blah, blah", and so with this particular issue, I would be able to get away with it. But it was after Kilika pm'd me and pointed out the errors of my ways, this was then I repented and felt very sorry, b/c there were more new born agains over at PPF, and having these beautiful lust-looking women in my avatars would "cause them to stumble". The Lord then reminded me how I commit adultery in my heart if I look at a woman lustfully, as well as warnings over causing my brother to stumble AND how God is NOT a respecter of persons. Having these female avatars alone was doing all that, and obviously it was hurting me too b/c I was pretty much making a graven image and worshipping it(whether I was realizing it or not, which he pointed out to me as well).

Pt being that was Kilika "judging" me here? NO! Again, like I said, he was just doing what Christians SHOULD do(as scripture says, to exhort and rebuke thy brethren so they don't fall into sin), and b/c of this, everything's gotten alot better. No longer do I focus my attention on these women in my avatars when I'm on PPF, and for that matter too no longer do other Christians on PPF get tempted et al when they look at this filth.

And you wanno know what was so odd about all this too? For SO long, I was calling out the New Age movement/Hellywood ushering in the NWO over on PPF, but en yet I had this avatar of a Hollywood actress who was doing her part in the occult realm. Definitely being a horrible witness for Jesus Christ here.

I mean you see the GOOD FRUIT when "iron sharpeneth iron" and "rebuke a wise man, and he will be wiser". So WHY can't these pastors of big megachurches take even a little bit of criticism? And b/c people like Warren, this pastor I mentioned in the OP, Hybles, Osteen, etc, etc have to be "rebuke-free", look how much damage they've cause to their own churches/member churches around the world. This is why I got so dis-heartened when my mom told me "You shouldn't be criticizing him". Again, the primary focus is NOT him, it's JESUS CHRIST(and the body of Christ for that matter too). Same with me with this avatar situation over on PPF - it was NOT about me. It was about Jesus Christ(believe it or not, I'm starting to see people getting saved there, despite all the anti-Christian spew there).
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« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2011, 10:18:42 am »

and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

That kinda sums it up - if we take a stance of 'judgment' only in the context of God's word, and only for the purpose to help someone out - then it seems the same will be returned to us.

Another part of that 'do unto others...' concept Smiley
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... knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.”  (2 Peter 3)
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« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2011, 04:30:39 am »

Quote
That kinda sums it up - if we take a stance of 'judgment' only in the context of God's word, and only for the purpose to help someone out - then it seems the same will be returned to us.

Another part of that 'do unto others...' concept

i like that

Jude 1:
3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

contend for the word of God the KJV where faith comes from!

Romans 10:
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
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« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2011, 09:42:02 pm »

OK, sorry to bring this up again, but I am really hurting inside with this issue, why? B/c not only I was sitting on this for 2 years(it was 2 years ago when we visited this church for its Chinese New Year's festivities), but apparently this whole thing with the pastor in China, and my mom communicating with him for about a year or so via email to try to set up a church for one of our Chinese friends there, etc has been going on for a year.

What am I trying to get at? It was in the Fall of last year(2010) when I took a Statistics class at the local university - no, I wasn't neglecting my bible reading daily, HOWEVER, I was so obsessed with making an A in this course, that it just steered my attention AWAY from discerning over what was really going on. Darnit! Darnit! Angry Angry I already have a degree in Math/CIS, and a CPA license to boot, but en yet I was geared toward my OWN LUST AND COVETOUSNESS of getting a stupid A?! I mean it wasn't like this grade mattered - a mere C would have prepared me just fine for the Statistics exam I took recently. And what difference would it have made whether or not I understood these concepts, which aren't even biblical to begin with? Ultimately, I was serving ANOTHER master.(Darnit again! Scripture says if you serve 2 masters, you will ultimately hate our Lord, and our Lord is not a respecter of persons, and scripture NEVER lies! Sad )

Either way, I really don't know if I would have had an opportunity to explain all this to her last year, but again, it was a GOLDEN opportunity.

Anyhow, I digged more research into this pastor - he resigned from that church in Summer 2010 to go off to China. From what I understand, he got involved in the church planting/pastor mentoring/pastoral leadership program - this is one of the big agendas that the Purpose Driven/Emergent movement is in(ie-they would invite Christ-haters like former Clinton prosecutor Kenneth Starr and your typical CEO of corporations to speak at their leadership conferences). So yeah, my big concern is that if he gets a church started for our Chinese friend there, it would be under the authority of Warren's Purpose Driven network, meaning Warren has COMPLETE authority over what they do(ie-what staff members they should hire, what worship music they should do, what bible versions they should put in their pews, etc).

But I guess if there's any good news out of all this, he's been there for a little over a year, and they're not quite at square 1 yet. As for Rick Warren himself, my mom doesn't follow his works or anything(so I guess that's good), however, she gets offended when I point out his heresies b/c supposedly he gives 90% tithe, and her reaction is like, "How dare you criticize someone who shows alot of faith giving most of his money away!".

I mean this is why I'm really hurting, b/c of the regret that I was putting my focus on something carnal at this time last year. Has anyone else had this experience? At least I was able to say something a month ago, but nonetheless she wouldn't listen(like said above, she thought I was wrongly criticizing this pastor, although I had to stress to her that red flags immediately came up when I walked in that church).

BTW - the new pastor of that church is a young guy, who's only experience in the church is a small groups leader at New Life Church(which was TED HAGGARD'S former church...Surprise, surprise!). Not that I endorse seminaries, but at the bare minimum, you would think a pastor of one of these churches would at least have a seminary degree, and not some gopher-boy job at some apostate church? He also uses the NEW King James version.

Edit: Sorry about that, this new pastor DOES have a seminary degree(Denver seminary) - nonetheless, his previous resume is NOT GOOD at all!
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« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2011, 09:57:23 pm »

FYI, here's the web site for Denver Seminary(the new pastor's alma mater at the web site in the OP)...

http://www.denverseminary.edu/

I just can't explain everything, but my jaw just DROPPED looking at various parts of it - their degree programs are ABOMINATIONS, they have one video where a ROMAN CATHOLIC PRIEST is profiled(Light in Darkness), a BRIAN MCLAREN book was promoted...pretty much this seminary SCREAMED universalism.

Buckle up, folks, the last month of this year COULD be one wild ride!
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« Reply #24 on: November 22, 2011, 10:02:10 pm »

Quote
I mean this is why I'm really hurting, b/c of the regret that I was putting my focus on something carnal at this time last year. Has anyone else had this experience?

I would say that many Christians go into the carnal but dont beat up yourself because of something in the past that you cant change. I believe that the Lord Jesus called me out of the education system that i was in, in fact i was convicted that where i was learning was not of the Lord where the atmosphere was dark. Anyway i did get the opportunity to preach there and although i got laughed at it was a learning experience, but i feel that i wasted alot of time on study when i could have been working for the Lord Jesus.

The new young pastors that come out with the NKJV and degree and some "great" seminary are as proud as can be and are there for the money well i would much rather a pastor that knew the KJV well but didn't have a degree but takes a stand for the KJV - they are the types of Christians i want to listen to.

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« Reply #25 on: November 22, 2011, 10:04:33 pm »

FYI, here's the web site for Denver Seminary(the new pastor's alma mater at the web site in the OP)...

http://www.denverseminary.edu/

I just can't explain everything, but my jaw just DROPPED looking at various parts of it - their degree programs are ABOMINATIONS, they have one video where a ROMAN CATHOLIC PRIEST is profiled(Light in Darkness), a BRIAN MCLAREN book was promoted...pretty much this seminary SCREAMED universalism.

Buckle up, folks, the last month of this year COULD be one wild ride!

Shocked they are unashamedly promoting what Satan wants.
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« Reply #26 on: December 20, 2011, 06:20:08 am »

I say we just have to pray for wisdom from the Lord. May He all help us make wise decisions & know what's right from wrong.

"Great is the wisdom of the Lord!
God Almighty, Your Wisdom includes
An understanding of what is fair,
What is logical, what is true,
What is right and what is lasting.
It mirrors Your pure intellect!
I entreat You to grant me such Wisdom,
That my labours may reflect Your insight.
Your Wisdom expands in Your creations,
Displaying complexity and multiplicity.
Your Wisdom is an eternity ahead of man.
May Your wisdom flourish forever! "

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« Reply #27 on: December 26, 2011, 11:21:26 pm »

Well, first of all, just want to thank everyone here for all your prayers and support.

Anyhow, been doing some prayer and bible reading on this issue...to be frank, I'll admit I've done WAY too much worrying about this, to the point where I've let my peace and joy in Christ be robbed. Yes, I probably should have spoke up 2 years ago(after we went to that church), or last year, instead of recently. However, at the same time, I shouldn't be too hard to myself over this kicking myself constantly. If anything, my parents probably wouldn't have listened to me anyways then like now(ie-after we went to that Chinese New Years festival there, my parents were almost immediately convicted that that pastor did a wonderful job witnessing to them, they even sat down with me afterwards and were serious about it - my dad has alot of Chinese students, which is why the connection is right there).

There were 3 instances last week where I just started shouted matches with my mom over this b/c I ended up getting aggravated over her rebuking me over other issues(which deserved so, but somehow b/c I robbed myself of my peace and joy in Christ, I ended up letting myself go off).

However, the more I prayed and read my bible, the more I realized that our battles are not against flesh and blood, but spiritual wickedness in high places. Jesus said that if we love our parents, children, land, etc more than him, than we can't be his disciples. The fact that I kept getting after my mom hoping she would change my mind really showed my true colors over my lack of love with the Lord. If anything, Paul stressed how charity is longsuffering and not easily aggravated. Jesus also warned that he doesn't bring peace, but a sword, which made me realize that even within my own family, there will be differences whether we like it or not.

As for this pastor - I don't know if he's a Satanist, but apparently he DID sell himself out for $$$$. Pt being that why should I fret and bite my fingernails over this? He may come off as a nice guy, but he IS deceived, and will suffer consequences at the Great White Throne of Judgement. And for that matter too, what he and other megachurch pastors are doing is only wearying their flesh quite a bit, so there's really nothing to fret about, or even feel sorry for them, b/c they made a choice. And the same goes for Rick Warren, Bill Hybels, and the Emergent Church. Pt being that let's not confuse these guys for Satan and his fallen angelic demons, b/c again they're just men who sold themselves out b/c they are blinded to the truth. They will have their reward, and we should be at peace with Christ.

My mom's right on one thing - whether or not that pastor gets that church built for that girl in China, it's in God's hand. I pray it doesn't happen, but again, God's will be done in earth as it is in heaven.
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« Reply #28 on: January 17, 2012, 07:03:10 am »

My mom showed me his web site blog from China last night, here's some of the stuff he's been posting...

Quote
New North Korean leader
 
Kim Jong Un is the new supreme commander of North Korea. Only in his 20s, the new leader succeeds his grandfather and father who have ruled continuously for 63 years. This is significant news and brings hope for positive change in this reclusive nation. More here: http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/24/world/asia/north-korea-successor/index.html?hpt=ias_c2

"Positive Change"? Now where have we heard THIS BEFORE? Roll Eyes

Quote
Decline in Morality
 
Chinese leadership of the Central Committee are becoming concerned over the decline in social morality. The remedy, however, is still uncertain. Read more on China Real Time “cultural reform” Oct.24, via the Wall Street Journal.
 http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2011/10/24/whats-behind-the-communist-partys-focus-on-cultural-reform/

You mean he's just noticing this for the very first time? And he doesn't know what the remedy should be, as a Christian missionary? Roll Eyes

Quote
Students to the USA
 
Guess how many Chinese undergraduate students now study at US universities? 157,558. The number has grown by 40,000 in the past three years and makes China the #1 source of foreign students in US higher education. Read the New York Times article on how this phenomenon is shaping universities in the Nov.6 edition: www.nytimes.com search: The China Conundrum

Like I said earlier, I was at his church almost 2.5 years ago when he allowed the Chinese student community to celebrate their pagan Chinese New Years festival. So I guess it's not surprise here that he's upbeat foreigners are coming to the USA without them hearing the good news of the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Quote
Overview
 
Cultivate Leadership is focused on growing leaders for global impact. The key to effective leadership is establishing harmony in all areas of life. Our hope is to equip future leaders to make positive contributions in the lives of others. Our strategy includes four major initiatives: leadership development, outreach, mentoring and marriage & family conferences. The result will be an expanding network of healthy leaders, families and organizations that positively impact nations.


Would like to post more of their objectives, but not necessary as THIS just about sums it up - no mention of the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. No mention of the CROSS. And pretty much no mention of the NAME of our Lord Jesus Christ(although he happened to mention God a couple of times).

Unsurprisingly too, he happened to mentioned Emergent buzzwords like relationships and purpose, stressing them.
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