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The 501c3 Thread

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January 29, 2018, 01:21:57 am Christian40 says: It will be interesting to see what happens this year Israel being 70 years as a modern nation may 14 2018
October 17, 2017, 01:25:20 am Christian40 says: It is good to type Mark is here again!  Smiley
October 16, 2017, 03:28:18 am Christian40 says: anyone else thinking that time is accelerating now? it seems im doing days in shorter time now is time being affected in some way?
September 24, 2017, 10:45:16 pm Psalm 51:17 says: The specific rule pertaining to the national anthem is found on pages A62-63 of the league rulebook. It states: “The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem. “During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.”
September 20, 2017, 04:32:32 am Christian40 says: "The most popular Hepatitis B vaccine is nothing short of a witch’s brew including aluminum, formaldehyde, yeast, amino acids, and soy. Aluminum is a known neurotoxin that destroys cellular metabolism and function. Hundreds of studies link to the ravaging effects of aluminum. The other proteins and formaldehyde serve to activate the immune system and open up the blood-brain barrier. This is NOT a good thing."
http://www.naturalnews.com/2017-08-11-new-fda-approved-hepatitis-b-vaccine-found-to-increase-heart-attack-risk-by-700.html
September 19, 2017, 03:59:21 am Christian40 says: bbc international did a video about there street preaching they are good witnesses
September 14, 2017, 08:06:04 am Psalm 51:17 says: bro Mark Hunter on YT has some good, edifying stuff too.
September 14, 2017, 04:31:26 am Christian40 says: i have thought that i'm reaping from past sins then my life has been impacted in ways from having non believers in my ancestry.
September 11, 2017, 06:59:33 am Psalm 51:17 says: The law of reaping and sowing. It's amazing how God's mercy and longsuffering has hovered over America so long. (ie, the infrastructure is very bad here b/c for many years, they were grossly underspent on. 1st Tim 6:10, the god of materialism has its roots firmly in the West) And remember once upon a time ago when shacking up b/w straight couples drew shock awe?

Exodus 20:5  Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
September 11, 2017, 03:40:40 am Christian40 says: those in america should better repent or things will only get worse
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Mark
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« on: February 05, 2011, 04:03:25 pm »

STATE-OWNED CHURCHES ARE KILLING AMERICA
By Chuck Baldwin

America was birthed in the spirit of liberty and baptized in the blood of patriots and tyrants. Leading the charge in America's fight for independence was a courageous group of patriot-preachers that came to be known as the "Black Regiment." I have written several columns on this subject. Suffice it to say here that I invite readers to take a look at my Black Regiment web page to learn more about this early American phenomenon. There is little doubt that without these stalwart Christian pastors, this country would not have come into existence. (I extended this call for a modern-day Black Regiment 5 years before Glenn Beck ever mentioned it.)

See my Black Regiment page here.

Plus, to read my column regarding the Black Regiment that was published in The New American magazine in 2009, click here.

So, what did these colonial preachers have that today's preachers don't? The better question might be: what did these colonial preachers NOT have that today's preachers do? The answer? Two things: 1) an IRS 501(c)(3) tax-exempt corporation status, and 2) a 50-year misinterpretation of Romans chapter 13.

The now infamous 501(c)(3) section of the Internal Revenue Code (IRC) goes back to 1936 (the seeds of this Venus Fly Trap date back to 1872). But then-Senator Lyndon Johnson was the Dr. Frankenstein who, in 1954, unleashed this monster upon America. His motivation was: he did not like the way pastors and churches were opposing his liberal agenda, and he wanted to use the power of law to silence them. He, therefore, introduced verbiage to the IRC that churches were prohibited from influencing political legislation and supporting political campaigns, or risk losing their tax-exempt status.

Of course, colonial pastors didn't have to worry about their churches being "incorporated" as State-created (and controlled) entities, or about IRS agents intimidating them regarding what they could or could not say. In early America, preachers were free men; they could say whatever they darned well pleased. Gasp! Beyond that, virtually everyone regarded preachers as being "God's men," not the "servants of men."

Today, however, the average pastor has become the servant of the State and the church he pastors, more often than not, has become a creature of the State. It is an absolute fact that State-owned churches are killing America!

Dick Greb of the Save-A-Patriot Fellowship in Westminster, Maryland, wrote: "Many Americans find it disturbing that some of our churches today are little more than milquetoast corporations that fear our federal government more than the great I AM. Moreover, it can even be said that some preachers have the appearance of cringing, 'politically correct' cowards, rather than committed Godly men of fortitude with backbone, such as those we read of in the Bible." (Source: Greb, Dick. "The 501(c)(3) Hallucination: A Bane to Liberty." Reasonable Action Issue #244 Winter 2003.)

Dear reader, you can take this to the bank: the vast majority of pastors and board members of these 501(c)(3) corporations, when push comes to shove (and it always does), will demonstrate unconditional loyalty to the State. Plus, they will compromise or sacrifice any and every Bible doctrine or principle in order to preserve their tax-exempt status and stay on the smiley side of the IRC. They will also throw anyone under the old proverbial bus who might risk them falling out of favor with the IRS. (I can give painful and personal testimony to that fact!) Greb is right! Many, or most, of today's pastors and church officers fear the federal government far more than they fear God.

Not only did colonial preachers not have to contend with putting their churches under some State-controlled corporation, they would never have allowed it to happen! Can one imagine John Leland, Jonas Clark, or John Witherspoon being told by any State official what he could or could not say, or what his church could or could not do? What a joke! These men were willing to go to prison or even the grave in order to remain faithful to their spiritual calling and to their political and moral convictions!

The other thing that colonial preachers did not suffer from was a 50-year indoctrination of a misinterpretation of Romans 13.

This "Submit-to-the-government-no-matter-what" doctrine (using Romans 13 as the pretext) is a satanically inspired lie designed to turn free men and women into slaves of the state! Students of history know that Adolf Hitler encouraged German pastors and churches to promote this same fallacious philosophy among the German people. Gee! I wonder why? And according to Erwin Lutzer's book, "Hitler's Cross" (must reading, I might add), out of the more than 14,000 evangelical churches and pastors in Germany at the time, only about 800 remained faithful to Scripture and opposed Hitler's brand of state worship. If my math is correct, that's about 5%. And it would not surprise me if 5% is about the percentage of pastors and churches in America today that are opposing this modern-day worship of the state.

At this point, instead of embellishing upon Romans 13, I am going to insert a commercial. I began a series of messages on Romans 13 last Sunday at Liberty Fellowship in Kalispell, Montana. In fact, by the time you read this, Part 1 of my message on Romans 13 will be available online.

To view my message, "The Truth About Romans 13, Part 1," click here.

I will continue my series on Romans 13 this Sunday, February 6, 2011. I invite readers to watch this address live on the Internet. View this livestreaming broadcast, here.

"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." So said Edmund Burke. And, unfortunately, the good men that are mostly doing nothing and allowing evil to triumph in our land are the good men (and women) of America's churches who have either been intimidated by the 501(c)(3) tax-exempt corporation status, or who have been put into a sheepish, servile, Satan-induced coma from an overdose of misapplied Romans 13 poison.

To quote the famous Bible commentator, Matthew Henry, "It is the devil that stirs up his instruments, wicked men [in government or without], to persecute the people of God; tyrants and persecutors are the devil's tools, though they gratify their own sinful malignity, and know not that they are actuated by a diabolical malice." (Source: Matthew Henry's Commentaries on the Bible, notes on Revelation 2:10)

Yes, the Black Regiment preachers of colonial America helped lead America's fight for freedom and independence. But, they did not have their hands out to the IRS, or their minds and hearts numbed into apathy and indifference by decades of misuse and abuse of Romans chapter 13.

http://www.newswithviews.com/baldwin/baldwin635.htm
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« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2011, 04:06:04 pm »

Disturbing 501c3 Corporate Church Report
02/15/09

The L.A. Times has just reported that local ministers are being asked to spread the word about the upcoming digital TV switch. Standing in the pulpit of Mount Moriah Baptist Church in South Los Angeles FCC Commissioner Jonathan S. Adelstein asked the Baptist Ministries Conference of Los Angeles (nearly 50 African American preachers) to include information on the June 12 digital TV switch in their sermons. Woodie Ramsey, a deacon at Southern Missionary Baptist Church of South East Los Angeles, said the ministers were prepared to spread the word: "It's incumbent upon each church to take care of the needs of its ministry, and this is just one more need for our people," he said. "We'll do our part." Meanwhile "The Worldwide Church of God" has refused to divulge how many of its pastors are now on the FEMA payroll, after a member expressed concerns about religious leaders being used to condition their congregation to accept the declaration of martial law. In a May 2006 a story first broke (& has since been confirmed) the shocking news that FEMA was training pastors and other religious representatives to become secret police enforcers who teach their congregations to obey the government in preparation for a declaration of martial law, property and firearm seizures, and forced relocation. A KSLA news report confirmed that 'Clergy Response Teams' are being trained by the federal government to quell dissent and pacify citizens to obey the government in the event of a declaration of martial law. We will also be covering many more topics that relate to this subject.


Disturbing 501c3 Corporate Church Report (Part 1)
http://www.mp3.cftresources.com/2009_02-15_1__Alarming%20501c3%20Church%20Report%20Part%201.mp3

Disturbing 501c3 Corporate Church Report (Part 2)
http://www.mp3.cftresources.com/2009_02-15_2__Alarming%20501c3%20Church%20Report%20Part%202.mp3

Disturbing 501c3 Corporate Church Report PDF
http://www.pdf.cftresources.com/2009_02-15__Disturbing%20501c3%20Corporate%20Church%20Report.pdf

02/22/09
Disturbing 501c3 Corporate Church Report (Part 3)
http://www.mp3.cftresources.com/2009_02-22_1__Alarming%20501c3%20Church%20Report%20Part%203.mp3

Disturbing 501c3 Corporate Church Report (Part 4)
http://www.mp3.cftresources.com/2009_02-22_2__Alarming%20501c3%20Church%20Report%20Part%204.mp3

02/22/09 current events

In this teaching we will be discussing the following topics: Catholicism reintroduces Indulgences to get out of purgatory quicker, Jehovah Witnesses failed prophecies, Islamic deceptions, KJV affirmed, Hindu Militants offer 250.00 to kill Christian pastors.

http://www.contendingfortruth.com/?p=1061
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« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2011, 05:41:55 pm »

Here's one thing I've noticed at the average 501c3 church - during the service, the pastor, choir director, and other ministers will play tag team throughout at least 1/2 of it, and then the pastor doesn't come in to preach when the service has only 20-30 minutes left. Overall, the pastor's sermon may be solid, but when your time is limited to preach, there's going to be ALOT that you WON'T be able to say.

For example, the average John Weaver preaching time is 1 hour. Yes, ONE HOUR. He covers every little gritty detail in his sermons.
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« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2011, 05:47:48 am »

The apostacy of the 501(c)3 church system I believe is directly related to Jesus' warning about the end times, and may in part be the abomination of desolation spiritually. Is not a "works" doctrine a form of claiming one's own efforts does things when it is actually God that gives the increase? Would not that be a man standing in the holy place (a fake Christian preacher preaching false doctrines within the body of Christ of believers) and proclaiming himself (claiming a title of preacher/expert, and encouraging members to do deeds like "winning souls" and working as a volunteer for some non-profit, etc) God?


15   When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 
16   Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 
17   Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 
18   Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 
19   And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 
20   But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 
21   For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 
22   And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. 
23   Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here [is] Christ, or there; believe [it] not. 
24   For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 
25   Behold, I have told you before.
Matthew 24:15-25 (KJB)



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« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2011, 08:02:51 am »

The apostacy of the 501(c)3 church system I believe is directly related to Jesus' warning about the end times, and may in part be the abomination of desolation spiritually. Is not a "works" doctrine a form of claiming one's own efforts does things when it is actually God that gives the increase? Would not that be a man standing in the holy place (a fake Christian preacher preaching false doctrines within the body of Christ of believers) and proclaiming himself (claiming a title of preacher/expert, and encouraging members to do deeds like "winning souls" and working as a volunteer for some non-profit, etc) God?

I got that impression from my previous pastor - yes, he "seemed" like a "godly" man, but at the same time, he was really being puffed up by the Baptist big wig leaders(including the seminary President) in the city, the ladies in particular were just gushing over him, pretty much everyone thought he was some great leader who could do no wrong, etc, etc.

Guess what - as time went on as I moved out of the city, I started to find out things about him I never even thought about. One time a couple of years ago in a radio interview, when asked about what is that blessed hope, part of his response was, "dawning of a new day", without even mentioning Jesus Christ. And then it was only a couple of days ago when I was looking for something on the internet, an article popped up in my lap(that I had no intention of searching for, nor concerning him as well) over some interfaith group in my previous city. Not only is he a member of it, but he is the CHAIRMAN of it. I mean all this time, people like the seminary President puffing him up as some great godly man, but did NOT see THIS?

Anyhow, when you posted this, it reminded me of this.
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« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2011, 05:41:16 am »

THIRTY WAYS THAT THE IRS TRIES TO CONTROL PREACHERS AND CHURCHES IN AMERICA
By Greg J. Dixon, Pastor Emeritus
Indianapolis Baptist Temple

Each of these propositions has been taken from IRS Publication 1828, Tax Guide For Churches and Other Religious Organizations, two letters from the Regional Commissioner of the IRS Cincinnati that the Indianapolis received through discovery, the twenty-two interrogatories that were included with the letters, and the 4 inch file that accompanied the letter with the news clippings on the church and pastor dating back to 1971.
The following demands are what the Internal Revenue Service requires of churches to maintain exemption from Federal Income Tax.

1. The church must have a ―distinct legal existence – According to IRS publication #557 that legal existence would date from incorporation, page 3. Therefore a church must be incorporated.
2. The church must admit that it exists by privilege granted by the IRS (tax-exempt) rather than by right granted by God through the Holy Scriptures, (non-taxable) recognizing another Head (State) rather than Christ.
3. The church must have a ―recognized creed and form of worship‖. The IRS must approve (recognize) the creed (belief) and form (manner) of worship.
4. The church must have a ―definite and distinct ecclesiastical government.
5. The church must have a ―formal code of doctrine and discipline.
6. The church must have a ―distinct religious history. This is denominational.
7. The church must be an ―organization.
8. The church must be an ―organization of ordained ministers.
9. The church must have these ordained ministers who are ―selected after completing prescribed courses of study. Like the Apostles, who had only ―been with Jesus, local Baptist churches many times approve pastors who are not educated at all in any formal way.
10. The church must have ―established places of worship. True churches many times have no permanent address (place of worship), but because of persecution and other reasons have moved from place to place.
11. The church must submit to the IRS by paying a user fee (tribute) for tax-exempt status. This would be contrary to the Scriptures, and U.S., and all State Constitutions.
12. The church must be engaged in activities that further ―exclusively public Purposes rather than Private interests. The true church of Christ exists for the personal and private interest of Christ her Head, not the State.
13. The church must answer to the IRS as to its ―daily activities.
14. The IRS controls all financial activities of the church including source, donors of $100.00 or more, and expenditures.
15. The church may not use cash, or it will be suspected of money laundering. All books and records must be available for IRS inspection at all times.
16. The church must act in the capacity of an informer to the RIS as to who serves at the church in the capacity of ―pastors, associates, counselors, educational directors, teachers, office help, clerical, and maintenance personnel.
17. The church must inform the IRS as to who the church helps in the area of charity.
18. The church must inform the IRS as to love gifts to evangelists and missionaries over $600.00 by filing a Form 1099 on each including those who are regularly supported.
19. The church must use only IRS approved methods of fund raising.
20. The pastor of the church must not preach against the tax system of the U.S. or say anything against the practices and tactics of the IRS.
21. The pastor of the church must answer to the IRS and give unlimited submission to the civil magistrate pertaining to all laws, federal, state and local, including ―Public Policy.
22. The pastor of the church must advocate, promote, and actively encourage race mixing if the church has an educational ministry.
23. The pastor of the church cannot influence legislation concerning licensure of church ministries.
24. The pastor of the church cannot engage in political activity in regard to opposing pornography.
25. The pastor of the church cannot actively support legislation that declares that children belong to their parents not the state.
26. The pastor of the church cannot actively support legislation opposing a state lottery or other gambling laws.
27. The pastor of the church cannot advocate support of the U.s. or State Constitutions as the Supreme Law of the U.S. or the various states.
28. The pastor of the church cannot actively participate in opposing the public school system.
29. The pastor of the church cannot declare publicly that the church is to obey God, not government.
30. The pastor of the church cannot oppose laws legalizing sodomy.

Conclusion: The entire forty-seven page booklet is available for a gift of any amount including postage and shipping through:

Temple Books
P.O. Box 11
Indianapolis, Indiana 46206
E-mail: drgregdixon@earthlink.net
Web: www.unregisteredbaptistfellowship.com

PDF from Scott, loaded with 501c3 info.
http://www.contendingfortruth.com/wp-content/uploads/End-Time-Current-Events-2-20-11.pdf
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« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2011, 05:32:47 am »

This right here is a perfect example of why you do not join the IRS controlled 501c3.

Now government wants to control tidiness of churches
Fight over exempt status focuses on clutter at worship center

A New Hampshire city official has taken the old saying "cleanliness is next to godliness" one step too far in a battle now raging over the tax status of a church building, determining that cleanliness is godliness, according to a legal team in the midst of the fight.

The dispute concerns Liberty Assembly of God, now called Destiny Christian Church, over its decision to use its building to feed the hungry and help the needy, and the resulting impact on its building.

It appears a city official didn't like clutter, and concluded the church couldn't be religious with it there.

It was several years ago that the foundations of the problem were set in place, when Concord, N.H., officials decided that if the church used its building to house the homeless and meet missionaries' needs, it would no longer be a church because those weren't "religious" purposes.

A subsequent room-by-room inspection of the facility was conducted by city officials, and their determination was that such activities were not religious, so the legal experts with the Alliance Defense Fund jumped into action. They now have pending a tax appeal for the church's 2008 taxes as well as a lawsuit over the 2009 taxes.

A ruling in the 2008 case could be coming any day, but it's uncertain whether that will resolve the complications that arose following comments from Kathryn Temchack, the city's director of real estate assessments, who said the church must be stripped of its full tax exemption because its rooms were not clean.

(Story continues below)

Read more: Now government wants to control tidiness of churches http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=269337#ixzz1FLY3lskI
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« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2011, 03:37:25 am »

That's an interesting case because it mixes two different levels of government involved. But for that NH case, it's more of a local zoning/permit issue, as 501(c)3 is federal only, though all levels of government go by a groups federal tax status to define what kind of organization it is.

In this case, local government is getting involved based on that groups local zoning/health permit issues. Whether or not a group is non-profit, they still must meet local zoning and health laws. If the local board finds that group was operating a shelter and not a church, they would consider them in violation of zoning laws relationg to oeprating a shelter, which really means nothing about their tax status per se'.

Over the years, I've been over this type stuff again and again in my mind in prayer, and there is ultimately no avoiding it, the government and the world in general. They now have us backed into a corner because a group of people cannot operate anything without the government having a say due to their laws that are in place concerning taxes and business laws and permits/licenses, public/private property, etc., and you have to deal with federal, state, county, and city levels of government.

I know of no place on earth that a human being can go to and not be "subject" to some other people's laws. Every place on earth is now owned by somebody, or it's a collective ownership of the world's governments like Antarctica. The governments of the world look at it as you being on their property, regardless of whether or not you agree with them. And the world considers it perfectly legal to have you removed from what they consider their property, or even your very own government, as we see with Libya.

Caesar doesn't care what the topic of the group's focus is, so long as that group complies with the laws of the worldly government, be it health codes for operating a public kitchen, to operating a shelter, non-profit status, etc. If they just had a building that was used as a place to make meals for the homeless, then the government could stick it's nose in and could claim the group was operating a restaurant without the proper permits and health department inspections and whatever else they came up with, be it county building codes, health codes, city codes.

So what does a group do? There has even been many cases of government trying to impose it's rules that govern operating some type of business on small Christian gatherings in someone's home.

I've said for a long time now that I believe that we are not to run a church group as the world does because I see no call for it in scripture, and the more the worldly governments assert their dominion over the activities of the individual and group, the more it is requiring believers to withdraw from their antichrist system.

The world isn't going to suddenly stop enforcing it's will on the public. According to scripture it will actually get worse. So trying to fight that beast system at it's own game is futile. If you play in their world, they expect, no demand, that you paly by their rules, and their rules in the world are based on "eye for an eye". Expect it. This is why I believe that Jesus said to render unto Casear or render unto God. It's a person's choice to render to one or the other, but you can't do both, as Jesus says that "...cannot serve God and mammon". To attempt to do both is to me being double-minded.

If a group goes by what the world says about people gathering in a given location, then they are "subject" to the laws of government by virtue they have contacted government saying they are doing a given thing as a group. The government in turn says you need a permit, or fill out this and that, etc. and off you go into the world, trying to render unto Caesar things that are Casear's, only to find there's no end to it unless you completely detach from it altogether, and start rendering unto God.

The world goes by the law, not by grace. Scripture says that we ought to obey God rather than men.
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« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2011, 11:34:23 pm »

If I understand this correctly, can a church be a 501c3, but UNREGISTERED, meaning that it didn't register with the IRS to form itself like a corporation to get these special privileges like limited liability, but in exchange have to report everything like donors to the church to the government?

So what I'm asking is that 501c3 registereds = being like a corporation entity, but 501c3 unregistereds = pews can right off their offerings, but that's the only privilege?

I was just looking on the IRS web site, and they put out a big list of all the charatible organizations that are eligible for tax deduction contributions - however, I was surprised some churches that I've attended that allowed tax deduction Sch A's were NOT on that list on the IRS web site.(ie-giving me the impression that the IRS Pub 78, section 170(c) was listing ONLY the REGISTERED churches)
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« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2011, 03:45:24 pm »

This is what I was talking about - saw this youtube video last night, and pretty much this guy says ALL churches are 501c3s, HOWEVER, it's the ones that are REGISTERED that are treated as corporations.(meaning they're the ones that have to pretty much file tons of paperwork and report everything to the government agencies)

FWIW - I've seen a few of this guy's videos - he seems like a Christian that bears good fruit. Was wondering if what he's saying is correct or not.

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« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2011, 04:54:54 am »

I think you're wondering if a person can be a little pregnant. The whole point is about "churches" serving Caesar, regardless of their paperwork they have filed with Caesar.

If a group of people have an organization that is recognized by the government as some type business activity, then that group of people is messing up in my opinion. First, they shouldn't have any organization filed with the government, and second, I don't believe there is scriptural support for any formal group meeting in the first place. I firmly believe it was never suppose to go beyond people gathering in each other's houses for local fellowship.

Instead of people gathering in a single location where the local group of believers have recognized elders, I believe the elders are suppose to be going out and meeting with the local believers in their own homes. And any support for the full-time elders in the ministry is for their personal support, not supporting a building fund, paving parking lots, sending people on missions to foreign countries to feed poor heathen kids, etc. It's all suppose to be local, and the Word spreads locally from house to house.

Just imagine the local group of believers supporting just the living expenses of their elders only, such as housing costs and food. But no, the greed of man has turned into a full blown business operation where they are sharing the spoils with Caesar.

Scripture says to do the work of an evangilist, right? How is it being an evangilist if you're hanging out in a building every weekend?
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« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2011, 08:59:38 pm »

“In the matter of changing religion, State favors are stronger than penalties.” http://hushmoney.org/

The Framers of America's Founding Documents relied heavily upon the writings of the political philosopher, Baron de Montesquieu. Typical of Montesquieu's brilliant insight, he once wrote that:

“A more certain way to attack religion is by favor, by the comforts of life, by the hope of wealth; not by what reminds one of it, but by what makes one forget it; not by what makes one indignant, but by what makes men lukewarm, when other passions act on our souls, and those which religion inspires are silent. In the matter of changing religion, State favors are stronger than penalties.”
The Spirit of the Laws, Baron de Montesquieu (1748)

Acceptance of State favors has had disastrous consequences on the churches in America. The church has been effectively silenced (or as Rev. D. James Kennedy put it, "gagged"). Now the disastrous consequences are being felt by the entire nation.
“The IRS has succeeded in gagging Christians.”

Rev. D. James Kennedy has stated:
“The federal government has proved a tremendous impediment to the ongoing work of Christians. In all the laws that they have passed against Christian schools, gagging the church, taxation, and all kinds of things that they have done, they have made it harder for the church to exercise its prerogatives and to preach the gospel.

"Take the last presidential election. There were numbers of things that I knew that I was never able to say from the pulpit because if you advance the cause of one candidate or impede the cause of the other you can lose your tax exemption. That would have been disastrous not only for the church, but for our school and our seminary, everything. So you are gagged. You cannot do that. The IRS, a branch of our government, has succeeded in gagging Christians."
Is there a remedy? Yes! The church can be re-empowered and regain the former glory and influence she once held in America. But in order to do so the church must stop acting as an underling, as a subordinate, as a dependent, of the State. The church must cease asking for State favors.
Because that for his name’s sake they went forth, taking nothing of the Gentiles. (3John 1:7)
Rather than being a "favor" or a "benefit", what the church has done through State incorporation and seeking the IRS' 501c3 status, is it traded its birthright for a mess of State-licensed pottage.
The church has taken the hushmoney. But there's a way out. The church can give it back! The church can give back the government "benefits" that no church ever needed in the first place.
By spending a little time here, you'll learn some important facts, problems, and myths about the corporate 501c3 status. You'll discover what happens to churches and ministries when they ask for these State favors and operate as "nonprofit tax-exempt religious corporations." You're likely to learn some things that will shock and amaze you.
You'll also learn why it's completely unnecessary for a church to incorporate and become 501c3, and why most of what you've been told about the so-called "benefits" of incorporation and 501c3, as it applies to churches, is a pack of lies, and that these lies were fabricated by attorneys and accountants to create a multi-billion dollar "church compliance" industry.

Under the Articles link at the top of this page you'll find some thought-provoking incorporated 501c3 church articles that have appeared in newspapers and magazines; and there are also a few audio files of radio interviews that have been done on this issue.
http://hushmoney.org/

Are you trying to get reliable facts on whether you should:
501c3 a Church
501c3 a Ministry
Incorporate a Church
Incorporate a Ministry
Become Tax Exempt
Become Tax Deductible
Start a Nonprofit Religious Organization

Are you looking for trustworthy information on how to:
Start a Church
Start a Ministry
Start a Home-Church
Start a Free-Church
Empower Your Church
Would you like all that without having to hire an attorney or CPA? You've come to the right place!

http://hushmoney.org/
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« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2011, 07:04:55 am »

IRS asked to silence ministry's local efforts

An El Paso, Texas-based ministry is the target of a complaint from Americans United for Separation of Church and State. The organization wants the Internal Revenue Service to zero in on Tom Brown Ministries.

Americans United (AU) is complaining that the ministry has had a role in the effort to recall El Paso Mayor John Cook and city council members Steve Ortega and Susie Byrd. The ministry, according to AU, "appears to have run afoul of federal tax law" by engaging in "partisan politics" and misusing the ministry's resources.

Pastor Tom Brown's response? "You just have this group that is anti-religious, very liberal," he tells OneNewsNow. "They are known for attacking people of conservative values as well as those who are Bible believers -- so they're just trying to intimidate us to try to get our voice silenced. But their intimidation is not going to work."
 
Americans United alleges the church is violating the tax code for religious organizations. Brown admits he has worked as an individual to recall Cook, but not on behalf of the ministry.
 
"I as a person definitely have been working tirelessly trying to get him recalled," says the pastor. "As far as the church, church members wanted to participate in the recall -- and since the IRS doesn't forbid recall petitions, there's nothing illegal that we're doing."
 
Brown stresses that churches need not be intimidated by anti-religion groups and need to speak up for themselves.

http://www.onenewsnow.com/Church/Default.aspx?id=1399126
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« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2011, 03:06:12 pm »

What is AU, the alter ego of the ADL?  Roll Eyes

But thanks should go to them for bringing up the point because that begs the question what is the correct doctrine on the matter. Unfortunately for both sides, they are both exposed as violating sound doctrine. The AU for not believing Jesus, and Brown for meddling in the secular world instead of preaching the gospel to them. As scripture says, he needs to come out from among them and be seperate. Who cares about secular politics? It's all going to fail because it rejects God. They are of the world and the world hears them, but we are not of the world.

Jesus says to let the dead bury their dead!
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« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2011, 06:02:23 am »

Tennessee Pentecostal Church in Tax Exemption Legal Battle
http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/delicious/gqlf/~3/dRPb8TkxQ0A/31896-tennessee-pentecostal-church-in-tax-exemption-legal-battle

A lawsuit is challenging Davidson County's refusal to rescind a property tax assessed on a local church. Apparently oblivious that churches across the nation have used book and athletic facilities to minister to their communities for decades, officials levied a partial property tax on Christ Church Pentecostal’s bookstore and gymnasium under the argument that they are not an integral part of the church’s ministry.

“Churches shouldn’t be treated differently than other entities in Tennessee—such as college bookstores, family wellness centers and hospital gift shops—that are tax exempt by law,” says Alliance Defense Fund Senior Legal Counsel Erik Stanley. “It’s a widely known fact that churches across America effectively use facilities such as gyms and bookstores for clear, religious purposes and are exempt from property taxes just like other organizations that serve the community—often at a loss. The bookstore at the church actually loses money every year because of their desire for people to have materials even in needy situations. Neither the bookstore nor the gym are operated for any other reason than ministry and outreach to the community.”

Luk 20:25   And he said unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's, and unto God the things which be God's. 

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« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2011, 04:35:05 am »

Luk 20:25   And he said unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's, and unto God the things which be God's.

Poll: pastors want IRS out of pulpit

Protestant pastors overwhelmingly agree government should not attempt to regulate pastors' sermons through re-evaluation of a church's tax exemptions, according to a new survey by LifeWay Research.

The research, sponsored by the Alliance Defense Fund, followed a related study conducted by LifeWay Research in October 2010 that found Protestant pastors also largely believe candidates for public office should not be endorsed from the pulpit.

In the new study, conducted in August 2011, 79 percent of 1,000 Protestant pastors surveyed strongly disagreed -- and another 7 percent somewhat disagreed -- with the statement: "The government should regulate sermons by revoking a church's tax exemption if its pastor approves of or criticizes candidates based on the church's moral beliefs or theology."

The earlier 2010 survey of 1,000 Protestant pastors found 84 percent disagree -- 70 percent strongly and 14 percent somewhat -- with the statement, "I believe pastors should endorse candidates for public office from the pulpit."

A June 2008 LifeWay Research survey also found 87 percent of American adults disagreed with the statement, "I believe it is appropriate for pastors to publicly endorse candidates for public office during a church service." In an October 2008 study, less than 3 percent of Protestant pastors agreed that they had publicly endorsed candidates for public office during a church service that year.

Religion has emerged as a prominent issue in the 2012 presidential campaign. Reporters are asking candidates questions about their religious faith and how it relates to their approach to governance.

"Pastors and church people have strong feelings when it comes to moral issues that some consider political, and historically churches have played a significant role in shaping political opinions," said Ed Stetzer, vice president of research and ministry development at LifeWay Christian Resources. "Pastors, however, clearly don't think the pulpit is the place for politics, nor do they think the church is the place for the IRS."

http://srnnews.townhall.com/news/faith/2011/09/14/poll_pastors_want_irs_out_of_pulpit
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« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2011, 12:26:54 pm »

They are correct, that there is no room for worldly politics within the body of Christ, but then those "churches" are of the world, so they are subject to Caesar. You cannot serve two masters.
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« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2011, 07:13:16 am »

Evangelical Council: Church Tax Breaks, Compensations Scrutinized

In an effort to more clearly define and look into possible changes in legislation regarding tax breaks and compensations for churches and nonprofit groups, the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability (ECFA) has appointed a trio of panels.

The ECFA announced last week that representatives from religious groups, the broader nonprofit sector and the legal community have been appointed to the panels that will work with the Commission on Accountability and Policy for Religious Organizations.

The commission was formed following a report issued by U.S. Sen. Charles Grassley (R-Iowa) in January that focused on the financial practices of six high-profile Christian ministries, ECFA said. Allegations included perceptions of excessive spending on high-end travel, accommodations, and property, according to a commission member.

After Grassley released the findings of his three-year inquiry, rather than seek legal action, the senator asked ECFA to lead an independent national review that includes making recommendations on accountability and policy issues affecting religious and other nonprofit organizations.

Florida pastor and one of President Obama’s spiritual advisers, Dr. Joel Hunter, who is a member of the ECFA commission, told The Christian Post that he would like to see the panels discover that new legislation is not necessary.

In an effort to more clearly define and look into possible changes in legislation regarding tax breaks and compensations for churches and nonprofit groups, the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability (ECFA) has appointed a trio of panels.

The ECFA announced last week that representatives from religious groups, the broader nonprofit sector and the legal community have been appointed to the panels that will work with the Commission on Accountability and Policy for Religious Organizations.

The commission was formed following a report issued by U.S. Sen. Charles Grassley (R-Iowa) in January that focused on the financial practices of six high-profile Christian ministries, ECFA said. Allegations included perceptions of excessive spending on high-end travel, accommodations, and property, according to a commission member.

After Grassley released the findings of his three-year inquiry, rather than seek legal action, the senator asked ECFA to lead an independent national review that includes making recommendations on accountability and policy issues affecting religious and other nonprofit organizations.

Florida pastor and one of President Obama’s spiritual advisers, Dr. Joel Hunter, who is a member of the ECFA commission, told The Christian Post that he would like to see the panels discover that new legislation is not necessary.

“We have been given the opportunity to gather this kind of information so that we could not just automatically go toward legislative resolutions, but rather we could do some self-examination and try to clarify what was reasonable and what was intended for religious exemptions by the IRS and by the customs we now have in the U.S.,” Hunter said.

“Part of this idea [of tax breaks and compensations] is that the churches and other non-profits contribute so much to the public well-being. They contribute so many services, and so much benefit that they more than make up for any exemptions and taxes that they have.”

The ECFA stated that the issues before the commission include whether:

    churches should be more accountable to the federal government;
    legislation is needed to curb perceived abuses of the clergy housing allowance exclusion;
    the current prohibition against political campaign intervention by churches and other nonprofits should be repealed or modified;
    the rules for determining the reasonableness of nonprofit executive compensation should be tightened;
    penalties should be expanded for nonprofits and their leaders who engage in prohibited activities.

Hunter said that the commission and panel studies should also include educating people on the positive aspects of giving faith-based groups and nonprofits certain tax breaks.

“Our responsibility is to continue to tell the story of just exactly how much churches, and mosques, and synagogues, and temples are providing in the way of goods and services to those in need in our communities,” he said. “The good things that they are providing would otherwise fall upon the government to provide. We would like people to clearly see that this is a wonderful investment.”

Hunter said he recognizes the potential for abuses, but believes much of allegations are about perceptions.

“There were some perceived violations, some perceived expenditures that people looked upon,” he said. “The lavish houses and jets and all of that kind of stuff that people reasonably look at and say, ‘Wait a minute, are we as taxpayers contributing to that kind of excess and is that right? Was that the intent of a reasonable exclusion (tax break)?’”

The ECFA Commission will also be receiving input from the Internal Revenue Service, town hall meetings and other informal channels. Two law firms will be providing independent technical analysis and research for the commission on a pro-bono basis.

According to ECFA President Dan Busby, a total of 66 members have been named to the panels by Commission Chairman Michael Batts. The three panels include one of Religious Sector Representatives, one of Nonprofit Sector Representatives, made up of 18 individuals, and one of Legal Experts.

Ultimately, Hunter said the panels will make “an effort to put in reasonable boundaries and put in some self-correcting measures that will hopefully avoid legislation.”

“In the end, there may be a mix of self-policing and some necessary legislation. We do not know that yet. It would be preferable to avoid legislation, but we are not that far along the process, yet,” he said.

http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/delicious/gqlf/~3/xR0VsxCA7Jk/

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« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2011, 04:09:05 am »

You can say what ever you want if your not 501c3!! What is more important the money or the message?

Hundreds of pastors thumb noses at IRS
'Pulpit Freedom Sunday' targets restriction on sermons about politicians' moral values


Just the name Internal Revenue Service can strike fear in the hearts of consumers, business owners and business operations volunteers for churches alike. But this weekend, pastors have the opportunity to thumb their noses at the federal agency – and have the weight of one of the largest Christian and human rights defense teams at their backs.

It's the weekend for the Alliance Defense Fund's annual Pulpit Freedom Sunday, on Oct. 2.

That's the Sunday each year when pastors are encouraged to "present biblical perspectives on the positions of electoral candidates" to "exercise their constitutionally protected right to free religious expression."

The event takes place in the face of a "problematic Internal Revenue Service rule that activist groups often use to silence churches."

Known as the "Johnson Amendment," it was put into place by then-Sen. Lyndon B. Johnson from Texas in 1954 when he was facing public criticism from religious leaders over his behavior in Washington while he was campaigning for re-election.

His rule bans ministers from discussing electoral candidates from the pulpits, even though, logically, ministers' speech is protected by the Constitution.

The ADF has been promoting Pulpit Freedom Sunday for several years in hopes of bringing a direct confrontation with the IRS into court in which officials and attorneys expect the "rule" would be thrown out.

The program has pastors publicly discuss candidates' issues from a biblical perspective, record the message and deliver it to the IRS.

The federal agency, however, has not yet risen to the bait. It also has declined to discuss the events with WND.

ADF officials said pastors from more than 475 churches in 46 states have registered to participate this year. That's nearly five times as many as last year's approximately 100 participants. This is the fourth year for the event.

 

"Pastors and churches shouldn't live in fear of being punished or penalized by the government," said ADF Senior Legal Counsel Erik Stanley. "Churches should be allowed to decide for themselves what they want to talk about. The IRS should not be the one making the decision by threatening to revoke a church's tax-exempt status. No government-recognized status can be conditioned upon the surrender of a constitutionally protected right.

"That’s why ADF started Pulpit Freedom Sunday: to get the government out of the pulpits of America," he said.

Freedom Sunday is associated with the ADF Pulpit Initiative, a legal effort designed to secure the free speech rights of pastors in the pulpit. It's goal is the elimination of the Johnson Amendment.

ADF said a national survey it conducted just weeks ago of 1,000 randomly selected senior pastors found that nearly nine out of 10 believe the government should not regulate their sermons.

"The survey confirmed what pastors of nearly every persuasion have told us for years: they don’t want the IRS, or any other governmental agency, to censor what they say from their pulpits," Stanley said.

"No one would suggest a pastor give up his church's tax-exempt status if he wants to keep his constitutional protection against illegal search and seizure or cruel and unusual punishment. Likewise, no one should be asking him to give up his church's tax-exempt status to be able to keep his constitutionally protected right to free speech," he said.

The ADF effort points out that before the amendment in 1954, "there were no restrictions on what churches could or couldn't do with regard to speech about government and voting, excepting only a 1934 law preventing nonprofits from using a substantial part of their resources to lobby for legislation."

Since Johnson's amendment, "The IRS has steadfastly maintained that any speech by churches about candidates for government office, including sermons from the pulpit, can result in loss of tax exemption."

Consequently, the amendment has intimidated churches into effectively silencing their speech.

Read more: Hundreds of pastors thumb noses at IRS http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=350641#ixzz1ZWGWG0Xd




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« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2011, 03:40:50 am »

Quote
That's the Sunday each year when pastors are encouraged to "present biblical perspectives on the positions of electoral candidates" to "exercise their constitutionally protected right to free religious expression."

The event takes place in the face of a "problematic Internal Revenue Service rule that activist groups often use to silence churches."

Known as the "Johnson Amendment," it was put into place by then-Sen. Lyndon B. Johnson from Texas in 1954 when he was facing public criticism from religious leaders over his behavior in Washington while he was campaigning for re-election.

His rule bans ministers from discussing electoral candidates from the pulpits, even though, logically, ministers' speech is protected by the Constitution.

On this point, I think I actually agree with Johnson's law. "Churches" have no business actively participating in politics of the world. As scripture says, "They are of the world: therfore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them" 1 John 4:5 (KJB)

Jesus says also, "Let the dead bury their dead..."

So as for the IRS, if a group is going to form a "church", I recommend they not apply for government-backed, non-profit status (501c3). Some make the legal argument that a group isn't legally required to apply anyway as they claim that status is already conveyed without application to church groups. That's a wordly debate, and up to the individual or group to decide for themselves how to interpret that part of Caesar's laws.

If man's laws restrict a believers ministry, then the believer needs to decide who they will obey, God or man.

"One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind." Romans 14:5 (KJB)

"Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called." 1 Corinthians 7:20 (KJB)
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« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2011, 12:06:11 pm »

Watchdog group targeting pastor's rights

Americans United for Separation of Church and State has asked the IRS to investigate First Baptist Church of Dallas and its pastor for posting videos that endorse a presidential candidate, but the pastor isn't concerned about it.

Pastor Robert Jeffress, who is familiar with Americans United's executive director Barry Lynn, introduced Rick Perry at last weekend's Values Voter Summit at the request of the Family Research Council. Following the scuffle about the pastor's subsequent comments on Mormonism being a "cult," the church-state separation advocacy group targeted Jeffress. (See earlier story)

"Barry Lynn has spent his whole career writing letters to the IRS trying to intimidate churches. This is absolutely nothing but an attempt by Barry Lynn to get some much-needed publicity," the First Baptist pastor contends. "Look -- they are challenging my right as a pastor to endorse a candidate, and of course I would never officially endorse a candidate as pastor of First Baptist Church Dallas."

But he says that he personally has every right, as does every American, to say whatever he wants to say and to endorse whomever we wants to endorse.

"Barry Lynn has been trying to muzzle pastors for years [by] threatening their tax-exempt status," Jeffress notes. "And what Barry never tells anybody is that there has never been a church in American history that has ever lost its tax-exempt status."

He further argues that this attack from Americans United is just a lot of hot air designed to corner pastors into being silent, but he assures that "Lynn is not going to succeed." He believes the watchdog advocate is just trying to become relevant again, but "it's just not going to work."

And Jeffress reiterates that any endorsement of his was a personal one, as he would never make a political endorsement from the pulpit.

http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/Default.aspx?id=1457116
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« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2011, 01:29:48 pm »

I gather that "Amercians United" is an athiest group? After so many legal challenges and letters sent, a pattern would emerge that would be hard to ignore that this Barry Lynn person has a personal agenda to attack another's ideology ultimately, under the guise of making sure pastors abide by US law.

If he has a record of going after all different religions, then okay, but to target a specific religion is in my opinion by US law, religious persecution, that involves federal civil rights.

It's up to Jeffress whether or not he wants to "appeal unto Caesar".
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« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2011, 03:49:14 am »

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« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2011, 09:48:40 am »

This is a topic that VERY FEW will cover, otherwise, most ministries, including fruitful ones, by and large won't even touch this with a 10 foot pole.

No, I'm not trying to put Scott, Greg Dixon, etc on a pedestial, but again, the vast majority of ministries don't even utter "501c3" from their mouths. Come to think of it, one message forum I frequent every now and then is very kind, however, the one time I posted warning about the 501c3 tag, I ended up getting alot of hostility responded toward me. And over at another end times message forum I frequent, even though they do a great job watching and discerning the times/wolves in sheep's clothing, they still seem to be under the bondage of Churchianity(ie-have read posts saying how great it is that their pastors are using NKJVs).

Seriously, if the state(regardless of what country it is) has their dominion over you, it is NOT good. I commented to someone early this week how the Chinese government was going after the home church Christian network DESPITE the fact that they did NOT break any laws(as they don't have to register), she responded how this home church was somehow at fault, how there are Christians in the China government, how there's nothing wrong with registering with the government, etc.

We are definitely living in backwards times now - have to give unlimited obedience to authority even if they're bad, we can't "criticize" authority even if they're way out of line, oh boy...when the antichrist emerges, what are they going to say? We shouldn't "judge" him either? Roll Eyes
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« Reply #24 on: October 22, 2011, 09:19:59 pm »

I have a couple of questions here...

1) I am STILL trying to understand this issue - from what I hear, Sam Adams's church(which was former pastored by Mike Slattery) is a non-501c3, however, they meet in a building. So can you still have a building and still not be registered? I understand what you guys said above about local fellowship meeting in a house with ordained elders, but still...

2) Anyone having trouble finding any kind of local fellowship? akfools posted an email in another thread over someone that invited him for local fellowship. Even though he seems to be non-501c3, he comes off as a charismatic heretic. I mean on my side, all churches here are 501c3(with some being ecumenical/emergent). And don't see any homes for fellowship in my area.

So ultimately, if we have to go at it ALONE...this is what worries me a bit.
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« Reply #25 on: October 23, 2011, 02:38:36 am »

Your never alone so long as you got Jesus. He promised He would never leave us nor forsake us.

I believe that "for where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them" is in fact a description of the type "church services" we are to have, or at least when we have "services".

"Let not your heart be troubled..."
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« Reply #26 on: October 23, 2011, 06:46:24 am »

Faith group to IRS: Don't tread on us!
John Kerry case reveals loophole for feds to quash political speech


A religious group is charging the Internal Revenue Service with using a legal loophole to first tax nonprofits' free speech, then run away with impunity when challenged in court.

The nonprofit Catholic Answers tasted this tactic firsthand in 2008, when its president, Karl Keating, posted a discussion on the organization's website arguing that, according to church rules, Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., should not be allowed to receive communion in the Catholic Church because of his support for legalized abortion.

The IRS then levied an excise tax on Catholic Answers for engaging in alleged "political speech" against then-presidential primary candidate Kerry, a tax Catholic Answers paid.

But when challenged in court, the IRS simply refunded the tax, while refusing to change its ruling that Catholic Answers' speech was taxable political intervention in an election. Lower courts then ruled Catholic Answers had no course of action against the IRS.

But Catholic Answers, together with the James Madison Center for Free Speech, are now asking the Supreme Court to step in, claiming this "tax-and-run" strategy allows the IRS to arbitrarily tax churches, charities and religious activists into silence, or dodge the consequences if the nonprofits fight back.

"Not only did the federal courts in this case misapply Supreme Court law, they have allowed the IRS to engage in trickery by penalizing nonprofits who exercise their right to speak, only to return the money at the last possible second," explained James Bopp Jr., general counsel for the James Madison Center and co-chairman of the Election Law Subcommittee of the Federalist Society. "So long as the IRS is allowed to do this, nonprofits like Catholic Answers will be deterred from speaking about individuals who are political candidates in any context for fear they'll be investigated and taxed. Nothing prevents the IRS from doing this again. And these groups now have no judicial remedy."

Read more: Faith group to IRS: Don't tread on us! http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=358653#ixzz1bbXoGqCB
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« Reply #27 on: January 17, 2012, 01:28:40 pm »

I got this from Bryan today...

Quote
I just heard about the "Christian and Missionary Alliance" doing corporate take-overs of small debt-free churches here in America! I will be doing a short message on this issue within the next few days.

Anyone know about this? Huh
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« Reply #28 on: January 17, 2012, 05:33:38 pm »

Nope, news to me.

I'd really like to know what is meant by "take-overs". Seeing these are allegedly debt-free churches, what is the given reason for these take-overs? They must already be "signed up" with that organization somehow.

It wouldn't surprise me if a local small church were to get "approached" by some large churchianity group claiming to have all the answers to the small congregations efforts, and promise to take them under the wing so to speak and help run their church, only in the end to have the group decide the church would be "better managed" under their control. I can see it happen, and I have no doubt there are some smalltime preachers that would fall for it.
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« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2012, 06:30:50 pm »

This is related(if you know what I mean here...)...

IRS seeks nearly $1 billion budget increase for hiring spree

Published February 17, 2012

| FoxNews.com

The Obama administration is asking Congress for a nearly $1 billion budget increase for the IRS, a move that would allow the agency to hire thousands more employees.

The administration is arguing that hiring additional IRS agents will more than pay for itself. The IRS wants to dedicate another $400 million to enforcement efforts, claiming that alone would raise $1.5 billion in additional revenue -- once all the agents are trained up in a few years.

The request is an attempt to restore money to the IRS budget that was cut in 2011. The $12.8 billion budget request would mark an 8 percent increase over the 2012 budget, but a 5.3 percent increase over the prior year's budget.

Republicans moved to pare down the IRS budget last year. The cuts were part of a broader effort to rein in federal government, but the IRS was targeted in part because of its role in carrying out the federal health care overhaul. The IRS, among other health care tasks, is supposed to make sure Americans follow the requirement -- which is under court challenge -- to buy health insurance.

But the IRS argues that more money means more agents, and that means more revenue.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/02/17/irs-seeks-nearly-1-billion-budget-increase-for-hiring-spree/#ixzz1mggUKDUR
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