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Demon possession vs. Trouble in the flesh

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Author Topic: Demon possession vs. Trouble in the flesh  (Read 951 times)
Psalm 51:17
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« on: February 18, 2012, 05:33:12 pm »

OK, first off, one of the reasons why I'm making this thread is b/c personally, ever since I got into a car accident 10 years ago, I've grown alot of fears and anxiety over driving cars. Yes, I am better now, but nonetheless the fears and anxieties are there, and I need supervision while driving.

Anyhow, here's the question - a couple of people close to me say I have these fears b/c I'm demon possessed(even that asian missionary guy hinted so in a thread I discussed in Dec0). However, like said above, this is something through the blood of Jesus Christ that needs to be overcome, HOWEVER, the anxieties and fears are lingering everytime I get into the front wheel of the car.

So need some feedback and scripture from you guys here - is something what I'm going through being demon possessed, or trouble in the flesh? Could you also compare scripture and scripture(aside from what I'm going through here) differing the 2?
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« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2012, 10:28:18 pm »

What is the effect of the fear? What’s the difference between your driving skills before and after this event? Is it simply a confidence issue? If somebody is with you to supervise as you say, what is he/she there to do? (assuming there’s no brake pedal on the pax side)

What happened with the accident? Were people injured? If so, how bad? Did anybody die?

Trying to understand your situation.
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« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2012, 10:38:56 pm »

What is the effect of the fear? What’s the difference between your driving skills before and after this event? Is it simply a confidence issue? If somebody is with you to supervise as you say, what is he/she there to do? (assuming there’s no brake pedal on the pax side)

What happened with the accident? Were people injured? If so, how bad? Did anybody die?

Trying to understand your situation.

It was back in 2002 when I was on my way to work, and I thought I couldn't make a yellow light, so I kind of abruptly stopped at it(instead of running through it), and a van behind me just slammed into the back of me.

No, noone got hurt(including myself), however, just the impact itself gave me nightmares for quite a while.

FWIW, that was what happened.
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« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2012, 10:44:46 pm »

BA, I don't believe that Christians can be possessed by demons.  I am on a tablet right now and so I cannot paste here, but see 1st Corinthians 10:21.  We are temples for the Holy Spirit and I do not think any demon could ever dare try to enter where He is.  I also believe the demons must be welcmed in some way.

Edit*  Sorry BA wrong verses.  I will see what I can find.  I truly believe our good Father can heal you of these fears.  I will pray for you.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2012, 10:52:05 pm by Believer » Report Spam   Logged
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« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2012, 10:46:38 pm »

It was back in 2002 when I was on my way to work, and I thought I couldn't make a yellow light, so I kind of abruptly stopped at it(instead of running through it), and a van behind me just slammed into the back of me.

No, noone got hurt(including myself), however, just the impact itself gave me nightmares for quite a while.

FWIW, that was what happened.

Describe these nightmares please. Were they reoccurring? Was this the first time you had ever been in an accident? Not sure how just an impact is necessarily scary, but trying to see from your POV. BTW, I've been through that exact same scenario (yellow light, rear ended)
« Last Edit: February 18, 2012, 10:51:32 pm by tennis shoe » Report Spam   Logged
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« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2012, 11:00:56 pm »

Describe these nightmares please. Were they reoccurring? Was this the first time you had ever been in an accident? Not sure how just an impact is necessarily scary, but trying to see from your POV. BTW, I've been through that exact same scenario (yellow light, rear ended)


Just to make a long story short, no, didn't have nightmares during my sleep, per se, but for some reason I just wasn't the same guy in terms of wanting to drive.

Thank you for the kind words, TS and Believer - however, just want to point out that I meant for this thread to bible study discussion on "Demon possession vs. Trouble in the flesh", not so much to focus on myself(just wanted to give what I went through as a mere example).

This whole "Demon possession vs. Trouble in the flesh" seems to have ALOT of confusion in Churchianity b/c quite simply, they don't study the scriptures anymore. When you ask a typical Churchianity folk, they'll either give an answer out of what their pastor or Sun school teacher told them, or won't have a clue at all.
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« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2012, 11:16:01 pm »

Just to make a long story short, no, didn't have nightmares during my sleep, per se, but for some reason I just wasn't the same guy in terms of wanting to drive.

Thank you for the kind words, TS and Believer - however, just want to point out that I meant for this thread to bible study discussion on "Demon possession vs. Trouble in the flesh", not so much to focus on myself(just wanted to give what I went through as a mere example).

This whole "Demon possession vs. Trouble in the flesh" seems to have ALOT of confusion in Churchianity b/c quite simply, they don't study the scriptures anymore. When you ask a typical Churchianity folk, they'll either give an answer out of what their pastor or Sun school teacher told them, or won't have a clue at all.


Okay, BA, I'm still going to pray for you, but submit my above thoughts nevertheless that Christians can't be possessed but can be attacked.  I do believe that demon activity will increase the closer we get to the Tribulation and our Lord's coming.

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« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2012, 11:37:56 pm »

If a Christian intentionally decided to practice divination with a ouija board or intentionally decided to participate in some voodoo blood ritual, there’s nowhere in the Bible that says they have some magical “satan shield”. The bible does say that the HS comes and goes as He pleases. Would God allow the possession, even temporarily?

Another scenario…a high-level priestess witch is called by the Father to Jesus. She gives her life to Christ and openly renounces all her works, destroying all the garb, contacts, and books associated with witchcraft. Is she saved? Is she really a Christian at that point in time?

Shortly thereafter, she becomes harassed by demons that affect her physically and mentally. She then seeks help from other Christians and experiences a deliverance of these things and discovers that they were inside of her during the witchcraft days. They literally come out of her and it takes 6 months of prayer with fellow Christians to completely free her. Is she a Christian? Was she really a Christian when she gave her life to Christ? Was she a Christian during those 6 months? This is based on testimony, BTW.

There’s also oppression (working from the outside) and temptation to deal with. But that doesn’t necessarily involve indwelling.

Also of note: those that have definitively and intentionally rejected God will have no problem whatsoever with being possessed. They may see it as a “gift”. The also will have no conscience. They could murder 10,000 people and sleep just fine at night.

BA, it sounds like just a confidence problem with what you have said so far. Most people develop confidence by practice to gain positive experience. Kind of like putting a fighter pilot “back in the saddle” ASAP after he has crashed a plane.
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« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2012, 08:48:21 am »

Just to make a long story short, no, didn't have nightmares during my sleep, per se, but for some reason I just wasn't the same guy in terms of wanting to drive.

Thank you for the kind words, TS and Believer - however, just want to point out that I meant for this thread to bible study discussion on "Demon possession vs. Trouble in the flesh", not so much to focus on myself(just wanted to give what I went through as a mere example).

This whole "Demon possession vs. Trouble in the flesh" seems to have ALOT of confusion in Churchianity b/c quite simply, they don't study the scriptures anymore. When you ask a typical Churchianity folk, they'll either give an answer out of what their pastor or Sun school teacher told them, or won't have a clue at all.

CAN BORN-AGAIN BELIEVERS BE DEMON
POSSESSED?
http://ministers.ag.org/pdf/OLD%20DO%20NOT%20USE/Possessed.pdf

This PDF is from General Council of the Assemblies of God, yet it is a very good treatise on demon possesion and born agains. This should answer all your questions.

P.S.

I think you let that travelling devil get to you. Its stuck in your mind that you got a devil because this guy says so. The Bible says something different. Which are you going to follow?
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« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2012, 08:57:11 am »

On a side note, how come every now and then, replies to threads I post in don't show up in the "read unread messages" tab? Didn't notice you responded to this one, Mark, until I scrolled down all the forums. But I will discuss this in the mods thread.

Anyhow, you're right, Mark, I think I let this guy get to me too much, which may have hindered my walk with the Lord over the last month. "We war not against flesh and blood, but against rulers of the darkness of this world and spiritual wickedness in high places". Thank you everyone here for all the support and patience - again, I should have believed God firmly all along and not let anyone get to me like this, otherwise like Eph 6:12 says...

And like mentioned earlier, the modern-day church is out of wack on this issue too - obviously, it's b/c they don't study the bible anymore.

I will read the PDF when I get back later(have to go out soon), thank you for the link!
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« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2012, 09:12:34 am »

On a side note, how come every now and then, replies to threads I post in don't show up in the "read unread messages" tab?

Its because this forum style really sucks unless you pay a lot of money each month. I have the same problem, thats why you ghave to check Show new replies to your posts. also.  Angry
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« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2012, 11:55:47 am »

If a Christian intentionally decided to practice divination with a ouija board or intentionally decided to participate in some voodoo blood ritual, there’s nowhere in the Bible that says they have some magical “satan shield”. The bible does say that the HS comes and goes as He pleases. Would God allow the possession, even temporarily?

Another scenario…a high-level priestess witch is called by the Father to Jesus. She gives her life to Christ and openly renounces all her works, destroying all the garb, contacts, and books associated with witchcraft. Is she saved? Is she really a Christian at that point in time?

Shortly thereafter, she becomes harassed by demons that affect her physically and mentally. She then seeks help from other Christians and experiences a deliverance of these things and discovers that they were inside of her during the witchcraft days. They literally come out of her and it takes 6 months of prayer with fellow Christians to completely free her. Is she a Christian? Was she really a Christian when she gave her life to Christ? Was she a Christian during those 6 months? This is based on testimony, BTW.

There’s also oppression (working from the outside) and temptation to deal with. But that doesn’t necessarily involve indwelling.

Also of note: those that have definitively and intentionally rejected God will have no problem whatsoever with being possessed. They may see it as a “gift”. The also will have no conscience. They could murder 10,000 people and sleep just fine at night.

BA, it sounds like just a confidence problem with what you have said so far. Most people develop confidence by practice to gain positive experience. Kind of like putting a fighter pilot “back in the saddle” ASAP after he has crashed a plane.



Quote
1 Corinthians 10:21 (KJV)
21Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.

This says it all for me.  If she was possessed even whilst on her way to accepting Christ, it is plain that the Holy Spirit had not indwelled her yet.  Was she considered a Christian?  You tell me. 

Quote
James 4:7 (KJV)
7Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

This is why I believe only unbelievers can be possessed for they cannot submit themselves to God and they cannot resist the devil.

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« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2012, 04:10:36 pm »

CAN BORN-AGAIN BELIEVERS BE DEMON
POSSESSED?
http://ministers.ag.org/pdf/Possessed.pdf

This PDF is from General Council of the Assemblies of God, yet it is a very good treatise on demon possesion and born agains. This should answer all your questions.

FYI, this PDF is a fantastic read! Yes, it's from an Assembly of God denomination leader(my only gripe about it), however, this pdf nailed it!

So that settles it! Trouble in the flesh != Demonic possession! Smiley

!= means "not equal to"(notation which I used when I took computer programming courses in college).
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« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2012, 04:39:38 pm »

glad it helped.  Smiley
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« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2012, 05:10:27 pm »



This says it all for me.  If she was possessed even whilst on her way to accepting Christ, it is plain that the Holy Spirit had not indwelled her yet.  Was she considered a Christian?  You tell me. 

This is why I believe only unbelievers can be possessed for they cannot submit themselves to God and they cannot resist the devil.



Morton had a lot to say about this subject. Much more in depth at the link.

Quote
The reason we published this article was not to unduly scare anyone or try to stir up controversy, but to warn Christians who may have a false sense of security about demon possession. From talking to several fellow believers we have found most dismiss the possibility of demon possession of believers for purely emotional reasons and are not familiar enough with what the Bible says on the subject to make a knowledgeable comment. They simply don't want it to be true and like a small child think wishing it so will make it so. But as we have seen, the Bible makes no such promise about possession and actually suggests it may be possible so the safest position a believer could take is even though the Bible doesn't definitely say either way one must allow for the possibility. This is the only sensible approach. Unless one is absolutely certain there is no danger ahead, it is always prudent, in whatever circumstance, to assume the possibility of danger. This is prudent behavior whether one driving in his car or dealing with matters the Bible does not address specifically. Christians can have confidence and security about their salvation, their destiny, their Bible, and their Lord because of what the Bible says, but in areas the Bible is silent, confidence can be misplaced.

Even if demon possession of a Christian is not possible, that, in itself, is of little consolation. Until death or the rapture the ONLY part of a believer that is secure and beyond harm is his redeemed soul. Everything else he has can be lost or destroyed and is subject to satanic control or manipulation. Satan can take or destroy a Christian's health, body, spouse, children, money, job, testimony, church, Bible, rewards, peace, contentment, safety, security, and even his mind without possessing him! Again, nothing is secure but his soul, and Satan can even convince a believer he can take it too! The Devil is a powerful and formidable adversary and those Christians who smugly make light of his abilities and dabble in things the Bible warns against are teetering on the very edge of disaster.
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Believer%27s%20Corner/Doctrines/demon_possession.htm
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« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2012, 12:30:40 pm »

Morton had a lot to say about this subject. Much more in depth at the link.
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Believer%27s%20Corner/Doctrines/demon_possession.htm

Quote
Satan can take or destroy a Christian's health, body, spouse, children, money, job, testimony, church, Bible, rewards, peace, contentment, safety, security, and even his mind without possessing him! Again, nothing is secure but his soul, and Satan can even convince a believer he can take it too! The Devil is a powerful and formidable adversary and those Christians who smugly make light of his abilities and dabble in things the Bible warns against are teetering on the very edge of disaster.

I agree that this topic would be based on 'Christians' who decide to go against the commands of our Lord and 'dabble' in these satanic things, but the question is about a Christian, BA, who did not state he had dabbled in such.  Therefore, I don't believe he has been possessed.  And as to Satan's power, it is limited by the power and 'permissive' will of our God, his creator.  Although we should respect Satan or any angel, we should not be duly frightened of them either, especially if we are living by our Lord's commands.  I believe the only power Satan has over obedient Christians is mostly assault outside the spirit realm of our beings.  We cannot be in league with them both and the scripture states we cannot worship both.  God's Holy Spirit resides within us and though I agree He can leave, it is only at the person's willful request by turning their face from God and disobeying Him.  For a person to open themselves up to the point of inviting a demon to come into them, I would suspect that the Holy Spirit must obey their will and would therefore leave them, also leaving them with no protection.  This is pure speculation on my part, as I am not an expert in this field, but go by what scripture says to me.

Demons can only go where they are welcome and where there is no protection from God.  Job was an exception, willed by God for an extreme purpose.  If any person claims to be Christian and also gives testimony to possession, then I would have to question there true motive and standing in God's eyes, but that is not for me to do and so I just leave it alone.

If you have more scripture which proves that a Christian can be possessed, I am willing to look at them and change my view.
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« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2012, 02:29:02 pm »

I agree that this topic would be based on 'Christians' who decide to go against the commands of our Lord and 'dabble' in these satanic things, but the question is about a Christian, BA, who did not state he had dabbled in such.  Therefore, I don't believe he has been possessed. 

Neither do I.

BA, it sounds like just a confidence problem with what you have said so far. Most people develop confidence by practice to gain positive experience. Kind of like putting a fighter pilot “back in the saddle” ASAP after he has crashed a plane.

Perhaps I misunderstood.  Was going with what BA wanted?

Thank you for the kind words, TS and Believer - however, just want to point out that I meant for this thread to bible study discussion on "Demon possession vs. Trouble in the flesh", not so much to focus on myself(just wanted to give what I went through as a mere example).

This whole "Demon possession vs. Trouble in the flesh" seems to have ALOT of confusion in Churchianity b/c quite simply, they don't study the scriptures anymore. When you ask a typical Churchianity folk, they'll either give an answer out of what their pastor or Sun school teacher told them, or won't have a clue at all.

Believer, I agree with your assessment as well as Morton’s. We shouldn’t be fearful. But we shouldn’t be ignorant or complacent about it either. I also agree with BA that Churchianity, not studying scripture, starting tattoo parlors, and setting up Starbucks, is vulnerable to being tempted to “dabble” in these days of occult revival. These beliefs/practices are constantly being promoted in children’s cartoons as harmless fun. Movies, music, television shows, video games, magazines, and toys all depict this as “normal”.

Because of what I’ve been through, I do have a healthy respect for the enemy, just as I would when dealing with a den of diamondback rattlesnakes.
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« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2012, 05:10:22 pm »

Neither do I.

Perhaps I misunderstood.  Was going with what BA wanted?

Believer, I agree with your assessment as well as Morton’s. We shouldn’t be fearful. But we shouldn’t be ignorant or complacent about it either. I also agree with BA that Churchianity, not studying scripture, starting tattoo parlors, and setting up Starbucks, is vulnerable to being tempted to “dabble” in these days of occult revival. These beliefs/practices are constantly being promoted in children’s cartoons as harmless fun. Movies, music, television shows, video games, magazines, and toys all depict this as “normal”.

Because of what I’ve been through, I do have a healthy respect for the enemy, just as I would when dealing with a den of diamondback rattlesnakes.

Oh, believe me, TS, I am not complacent at all either.  I also agree that all that we are seeing around us in the media is a strong sign that satan is working very hard, 'for he knows his time is short' and is trying to gather as many willing souls as possible and that consists of mainly our youth.  Unfortunately, the majority of parents are not in tune with the scriptures and a lot of this blame sits squarely with today's church, just as BA has stated and the plethora of news articles on this and other sites.  Speaking of satan is like some sort of taboo, but true knowledge of his tactics is needed badly right now.  So, don't feel I am against this discussion for I am not, I welcome it and am glad BA has found some comfort in all the words here. 

God Bless!
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« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2012, 06:02:10 pm »

If you don't mind, want to add a couple of more things here...

1) I found out more with this asian "missionary" guy over the weekend that while my mom's church was having a "revival" one night, he went over to the pastor's wife and told her(while she was praying, I think) that she was being possessed by Satan. Yes, there are alot of things that the pastor's wife does that are not biblical(no, they're not "criminal" per se), but nonetheless it's not like she's demon possessed or anything. But nonetheless, this guy just came over and made a blanket "You're being possessed by Satan" statement to her.

Seriously - the church here has to take responsibility for this, b/c it's THEY that should have REBUKED her during her time at this church, b/c she IS the pastor's wife, and should have done so BY SHOWING HER SCRIPTURE. But nonetheless, this is another example of this guy showing his true colors, and the lack of discernment on part of this church throughout all this time.

2) Almost 4 years ago when I went to Boston on a trip with my parents, there was no church to go to nearby, so we ended up going to a Christian Science one(this is the popular one up there b/c Mary Baker Eddy, its founder, was born up there). This was when my parents briefly dabbled into this. According to Baker's teachings, supposedly salvation comes through HER TEACHINGS, one of them being if you read her "Health and Science with Key to the Scriptures" over and over again, then your illnesses will get healed.

At first, when my mom and dad started reading her book numerous times, my mom's back injuries started getting healed out of the blue, and my dad's hearing problems started getting healed as well, this is when they tried to get me to read this book numerous times. Even though I was not grounded in the word of God then, it was during the 2nd reading of it when I felt something was VERY wrong, which is when the Lord lead me to the proper materials and web sites exposing deceptions in the church/wolves in sheeps clothing. And sure enough, all of these materials and web sites exposed Christian Science inside and out a good one! Praise Jesus!

As for my parents's "getting healed", it was ONLY TEMPORARY. It was only a FEW MONTHS LATER when my dad's hearing problems came back, and my mom's back ailments came back as well! So as you can see, Satan will ALWAYS make you pay the piper over the long haul!

Again, 2 more things I wanted to share here. Yes, as you can see, the modern-day church doesn't give a darn anymore over witchcraft and deceptions infiltrating their walls anymore, and if you want to talk to these people how it's trying to hit you, they will think you're the one who's crazy! Who knows every reason why, but when you have pastors who are "career minded" going for more "missionary opportunities" and more concerns over the offering plates, it sure doesn't help! For the love of money is the root of all evil...ye cannot serve 2 masters...either you will hate the one and love the other...
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