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LEFT BEHIND... WHO?

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August 08, 2018, 02:38:10 am suzytr says: Hello, any good churches in the Sacto, CA area, also looking in Reno NV, thanks in advance and God Bless you Smiley
January 29, 2018, 01:21:57 am Christian40 says: It will be interesting to see what happens this year Israel being 70 years as a modern nation may 14 2018
October 17, 2017, 01:25:20 am Christian40 says: It is good to type Mark is here again!  Smiley
October 16, 2017, 03:28:18 am Christian40 says: anyone else thinking that time is accelerating now? it seems im doing days in shorter time now is time being affected in some way?
September 24, 2017, 10:45:16 pm Psalm 51:17 says: The specific rule pertaining to the national anthem is found on pages A62-63 of the league rulebook. It states: “The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem. “During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.”
September 20, 2017, 04:32:32 am Christian40 says: "The most popular Hepatitis B vaccine is nothing short of a witch’s brew including aluminum, formaldehyde, yeast, amino acids, and soy. Aluminum is a known neurotoxin that destroys cellular metabolism and function. Hundreds of studies link to the ravaging effects of aluminum. The other proteins and formaldehyde serve to activate the immune system and open up the blood-brain barrier. This is NOT a good thing."
http://www.naturalnews.com/2017-08-11-new-fda-approved-hepatitis-b-vaccine-found-to-increase-heart-attack-risk-by-700.html
September 19, 2017, 03:59:21 am Christian40 says: bbc international did a video about there street preaching they are good witnesses
September 14, 2017, 08:06:04 am Psalm 51:17 says: bro Mark Hunter on YT has some good, edifying stuff too.
September 14, 2017, 04:31:26 am Christian40 says: i have thought that i'm reaping from past sins then my life has been impacted in ways from having non believers in my ancestry.
September 11, 2017, 06:59:33 am Psalm 51:17 says: The law of reaping and sowing. It's amazing how God's mercy and longsuffering has hovered over America so long. (ie, the infrastructure is very bad here b/c for many years, they were grossly underspent on. 1st Tim 6:10, the god of materialism has its roots firmly in the West) And remember once upon a time ago when shacking up b/w straight couples drew shock awe?

Exodus 20:5  Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
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Evadinggrid
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« on: November 07, 2010, 04:38:15 am »

LEFT BEHIND... WHO?

 In the past, terms such as "The Second Coming", "The End of the World", and "Armageddon" were used to capture the overall message of The Revelation, the last book of the Bible. However, in recent years, the term "Left Behind" has caught on as a dramatic focus for what many Bible expositors believe is the most immediately significant event in connection with endtime prophecy.

 The picture is painted of a world in which tens (if not hundreds) of millions of professing Christians suddenly disappear. The entire planet is left in shock, as it wakes up to find friends, neighbours, and relatives gone, and themselves "left behind". If this is how it is going to happen, then that is a good phrase to encapsulate the significance of the events to the rest of the world, that is, to those who are left. The story could begin with instructions on what the rest of the earth's population should do to make up for having missed out on the much vaunted "secret rapture" that passed them by. And that is more or less what the "Left Behind" series does.

 But there is one small problem. It is not going to happen that way. According to what the Bible really does teach, the ones who are going to be caught most off-guard and most thrown into confusion when things start happening will be the professing Christians themselves. Having for decades been fed on a line about how they will be carried to the skies on flowery beds of ease, these same people will find themselves totally unprepared for the realities of the Great Tribulation.

 Listen to this description of the confusion that Jesus spoke of when the various endtime prophecies begin (and in particular, when the Great Tribulation begins) to take place: "Listen! I have told you this ahead of time. If people should tell you, 'Look, he is out in the desert!' don't go there. Of if they say, 'Look, he is hiding here!' don't believe it. For the Son of Man will come like the lightning which flashes across the whole sky from the east to the west." (Matthew 24:25-27) The picture gien in this passage is not one of raptured saints celebrating in heaven, but rather it is one of disillusioned believers, who had thought their Saviour would have already arrived and taken them away; and the warning that Christ gives is that there will be NO "secret" vanishing.

 To be more specific, Jesus says, "Immediately AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days... the Son of Man will appear in the sky; and all the peoples of earth will weep as they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. The great trumpet will sound, and he will send out his angels to the four corners of the earth, and they will gather his chosen people from one end of the world to the other." (Matthew 24:29-31)

 When I was in my early 20s, I asked a wise old pastor to tell me whether Christians were going to go through the Great Tribulation or whether they were going to escape it through the "rapture". He said, "I'm going to askyou one question, and when you answer that question, you'll answer your own question as well. Here it is: How many trumpets are there after the LAST trumpet?"

 I was such a novice at the time that his question only confused me. Of course there are NO more trumpets after the LAST one,I said. But what did that have to do with the rapture. I turned to I Corinthians 15:51-52, which is a universally accepted description of the rapture. It says, "Listen to this secret truth: We shall not all die, but when the LAST TRUMPET sounds, we shall all be changd in an instant, as quickly as the blinking of any eye. For when the trumpet sounds, the dead will be raised, never to die again, and we shall all be changed in a twinkling of an eye"

 This verse clearly says that the rapture will take place at the sound of the "last trumpet". But what does that mean? It was some time later that I learned that the "Great Tribulation" is punctuated in The Revelation by blasts from seven different trumpets. This, too, is universally accepted to be true: the seven trumpets mark seven aspects of the Great Tribulation.

 In other words, both sides agree that the I Corinthians 15:51-52 passage refers to the Rapture, and the Seven Trumpets of the Revelation (chapters 8-11) refer to the Great Tribulation. Tim LaHaye himself would agree. Together, these clearly place the rapture at the sounding of the "last trumpet". And yet the most widely accepted teaching about the endtime today is that the rapture will not happen at the last trumpet, but rather that it will happen even before the FIRST trumpet of the Great Tribulation has sounded. Why is this?

 The answer is quite simple: Popularity. People in today's pampered Western world do not want to even think about the possibility that they may have to suffer and die for their faith. So any teaching (and any teacher) who tells them that they can escape it all by saying a little prayer, is going to be terribly popular. It is doubtful that any book which teaches otherwise would ever make it to the New York Times bestseller list.

 The secret rapture teaching is the great escape from sacrifice, persecution, suffering, obedience, discipline. According to these people, all you have to do is say the magic word ("Lord, Lord!") and in return you will get unbridled wealth, health, and popularity.

 As we have said, it is good that the "Left Behind" series is getting people thinking about the return of Jesus. But until people face up to the fact that they are going to have to make some rather costly changes to their lifestyle, they are going to end up just as lost when they have finished reading the series as they were when they started.

 Mind you, if we are wrong, and there should actually be a secret rapture before all the trouble begins, we will have lost nothing. We will have been prepared for a trial that God never asked us to endure. But what about the reverse? What about the possibility that the people believing the Great Escape theory are misguided? If they are wrong, there will be hell to pay for it. Literally as well as figuratively! Isn't it worth some serious consideration?
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Psalm 51:17
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« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2010, 09:49:34 am »

I've heard eschatology all over the map-

pre-trib where the church is taken out before the 3.5 - 7 years

post-trib where Christians don't get a pass out, and are tried to the fullest ever for 3.5 years

mid-trib where Christians are taken out midway of the 7 years before the AOD

Historicism(which Pastor John Weaver believes) - where there's no antichrist OWG leader, and only Jesus' 2nd Coming

All I can say is, we will see. Scott doesn't like to talk about this escatology, because "We will all find out". I agree with Scott, I think it would be best, while to be very watchful, to wait how this end will play out, because none of us really knows.

If we put all our marbles into thinking we will be snatched away before the fan hits the ceiling, I think we will all be in for a huge surprise, even worse than going to some casino and putting our nestegg on the line thinking we will double our worth, only to lose everything.

Ultimately, I think we will go through some very hard times before Jesus returns, because it will be a big test and trial of our faith.
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« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2010, 10:32:09 am »

mid-trib where Christians are taken out midway of the 7 years before the AOD
Historicism(which Pastor John Weaver believes) - where there's no antichrist OWG leader, and only Jesus' 2nd Coming

Excuse my ignorance; what does AOD and OWG stand for?

Also, will the trumpets of Revelation be audible; just thinking, if we can hear the trumpets, then we can safely assume the 1st trumpet hasn't sounded yet.

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razberry
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« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2010, 11:08:44 am »

So, if we Christians are still here during the tribulation period, then it's possible that we can lose our salvation at that time?  (if we take the mark of the beast.)  Not buying that.  Christians cannot lose their salvation ever but tribulation saints can.  It will be a new dispensation.  Christians won't be here, imo.

I love Scott Johnson but this is the one area where I disagree with him.  It's smart though that he avoids the subject, at least until he does an in depth study on it, including a study on dispensationalism.

Bryan Denlinger at Sermonaudio.com has a really good study posted on dispensationalism.  The term "non-dispensational" is in the title.

To the PeanutGallery, OWG is one world govt.  I'm not sure what AOD means.  "age of ??"
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« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2010, 05:34:54 pm »

The church most certainly goes through the tribulation. The tribulation, Jacobs Trouble is when apostate Jacob is restored. Jesus is returning for a spotless bride. "Taken" in scripture is bad, not good. One taken one left refers to taken into captivety and martyred.
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Kilika
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« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2010, 05:38:17 am »

AOD = Abomination of Desolation

So, if we Christians are still here during the tribulation period, then it's possible that we can lose our salvation at that time?  (if we take the mark of the beast.)  Not buying that.  Christians cannot lose their salvation ever but tribulation saints can.  It will be a new dispensation.  Christians won't be here, imo.

I love Scott Johnson but this is the one area where I disagree with him.  It's smart though that he avoids the subject, at least until he does an in depth study on it, including a study on dispensationalism.

Bryan Denlinger at Sermonaudio.com has a really good study posted on dispensationalism.  The term "non-dispensational" is in the title.

To the PeanutGallery, OWG is one world govt.  I'm not sure what AOD means.  "age of ??"

Jesus says he will never leave us nor forsake us. I believe that applies to all believers in Christ. In the end, we are judged according to our works, and if our "works" are living by faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour, then we have nothing to worry about because He seals us to the day of redemption with the Holy Ghost, tribulation or not. Jesus says in the world we will have tribulation, but what? "...I have overcome the world"

"Peace [be] to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ." Ephesians 6:23 (KJB)
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razberry
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« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2010, 10:08:54 am »

The church most certainly goes through the tribulation. The tribulation, Jacobs Trouble is when apostate Jacob is restored. Jesus is returning for a spotless bride. "Taken" in scripture is bad, not good. One taken one left refers to taken into captivety and martyred.
Do you believe that we, as Christians, can lose our salvation during the tribulation? 
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PeanutGallery
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« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2010, 12:03:24 pm »

So, if we Christians are still here during the tribulation period, then it's possible that we can lose our salvation at that time?  (if we take the mark of the beast.)  Not buying that.  Christians cannot lose their salvation ever but tribulation saints can. 

I agree that christians can't lose their salvation because of sin; however, is it possible for 'christians' to commit apostasy, to fall away, to return to the world, to turn to his own vomit gain?
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razberry
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« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2010, 01:21:23 pm »

So, if we Christians are still here during the tribulation period, then it's possible that we can lose our salvation at that time?  (if we take the mark of the beast.)  Not buying that.  Christians cannot lose their salvation ever but tribulation saints can. 

I agree that christians can't lose their salvation because of sin; however, is it possible for 'christians' to commit apostasy, to fall away, to return to the world, to turn to his own vomit gain?

But if Christians are here during the trib period, and he/she take the mark of the beast, they will lose their salvation.  Right?

Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
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Evadinggrid
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« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2010, 03:14:22 pm »

When I was in my early 20s, I asked a wise old pastor to tell me whether Christians were going to go through the Great Tribulation or whether they were going to escape it through the "rapture".

He said, "I'm going to ask you one question, and when you answer that question, you'll answer your own question as well. Here it is: How many trumpets are there after the LAST trumpet?"

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PeanutGallery
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« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2010, 05:11:17 pm »

He said, "I'm going to ask you one question, and when you answer that question, you'll answer your own question as well. Here it is: How many trumpets are there after the LAST trumpet?"

I tend to agree in that direction; however, some claim that trump and trumpet are two different things.
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Evadinggrid
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« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2010, 02:08:18 pm »

Very surprised I'm not getting any replies or lively debate.
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theBIBLICALdude
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« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2010, 02:55:22 am »

http://matthew18twenty.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=347

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