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Show me where in the Bible it is ok for a Christian to kill another person.

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Author Topic: Show me where in the Bible it is ok for a Christian to kill another person.  (Read 278 times)
« on: February 15, 2011, 07:59:55 pm »

I have a real problem with Christians promoting that is ok to kill another person in self defense. I know that if some one was trying to hurt or kill my wife or daughters or another that I would definitely use lethal force in order to stop them. But that falls into a different category of laying down my life to save another. I was in law enforcement (Coast Guard) and I do carry a weapon.  I carry a weapon first because I live in Alaska and there are BIG bears up here and secondly mainly to scare off an attacker rather than kill him. I do not believe what Steve Quayle, Hawk, Alex Jones,William Cooper, and many others advocate when it comes to using lethal force to protect property, goods ,or self. I believe what Jesus taught about turning the other cheek and giving something to somebody that wants to take it from you. I certainly do not wish to save my own life vs. sending somebody straight to hell. If the government decides to round up people and place them into prison camps how am I going to physically fight off the troops that they will use to subdue me? It doesn't matter how many guns you have or how many bullets. They will always have more. Besides, going to a prison camp may be the Lord's calling for a person so that they can witness and preach to others within the camp. I believe in trusting in the Lord to lead me, protect me, and hide me. When my time is come, it is come. Some say that it will take more than faith in the Lord to prepare for what is coming but I have to respectfully disagree. You can stock up with 10 years worth of supplies and provisions and then your house could burn down. What about gold? Should I be concerned with having something to barter or trade with the NWO? I prefer not. What if I need to flee from where my provisions are stored? I try not to stock pile more than I can physically move in a vehicle. I prepare for having to venture out into woods with a backpack. I do prepare with outdoor gear and portable survival equipment. I am not scared of man or what he can do to me. If things get so bad that we as Christians are perused for persecution then I would suggest fleeing and hiding from the authorities as opposed to fighting them. This is what the early Christian did and it is what Jesus did on several occasions until His time had come. Murder is not the last sin I that want to commit before I go tp be with the Lord. No, thanks.
   A few years ago here in Alaska there was a preacher that shot and killed two men that had broken into his church at night. They were running away when he shot them both in the back with a .44 Mag revolver. What was he worried they had stolen? Maybe a Bible? He killed them and sent them to hell more than likely for breaking into his church and running away? Talk about trigger happy. He got off and didn't face any charges.
I think that it is important for us to have the right to bear arms. But I think that it is essential for people to understand the lethal force they posses when carrying a weapon. And to not be so eager to use it and  to condemn another person to death just because they fear a situation.  A gun is a tool and requires responsibility and discretion on the part of the carrier.

        I was on the way to the hospital one day with my pregnant wife for a checkup at the doctor's office and a guy in the vehicle behind me got mad about how slow I was driving and decided to swerve around me into the other lane to get ahead of me and stop my vehicle. He got out of his car, approached mine very angry, punched my window and demanding me to get out of my car and fight with him. I simply pulled out my gun and instructed him through the glass to get back into his car and drive away. That is what he did. This is why I like to carry  a gun but not to be quick to use it. I suppose it would of not have been such an easy situation if he had pulled out a gun also. But I was fortunate. And thankfully it was resolved quickly. There are plenty of crazies out there. I  had a group of guys attempt to car jack me while I was leaving a Wal-Mart in Milwaukee,Wis. I have been in several situations where a gun came in handy and nobody needed to be killed. Show me one verse in the New Testament where we are called as Christians to use lethal force in defence of our lives. I cannot find it.

The Bible says Prov 22:3 A prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself

It does not say that a prudent man gets a sword (gun) and fights evil. Our weapon is the Word of God.


Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of

the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places
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« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2011, 08:43:18 pm »

That was my one big gripe with William Cooper - his Mystery Babylon series is excellent because it's based on his decades of research(and his bible reading as well). He also researched and warned about the NWO, and encouraged his listeners to do the same themselves, and not to put their trust in other men. However, he got into the territory of thinking he could amass a citizen Patriot army to fight and defeat the NWO. While I would recommend his Mystery Babylon series(among his other works except for his Behold a Pale Horse, which he himself admitted later he made alot of mistakes in) to my Christian friends, I would NOT recommend it to unbelievers, as well as to new believers.

With that being said-

Rom 12:17  Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.

Rom 12:21  Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

Rom 13:13  Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.
Rom 13:14  But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

But just to provide some balance here - Romans 13 does NOT mean we have to submit to our government blindly. It doesn't mean we have to physically revolt against our evil government, but at the same time, if we submit to their draconian agendas, it's just as big of a sin.
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« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2011, 08:51:47 pm »

I have been in several situations where a gun came in handy and nobody needed to be killed.

Jesus said in Luke 22:35-38:
35 And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.
36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.
38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

Some people would say that this by Jesus justifies one to carry a weapon, but Jesus didn't say to use the sword against anyone!
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« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2011, 03:50:07 am »

Right, I've heard others claim that verse as well that the sword was for protection, but I'm not so sure, especially seeing there was 12 of them and they only had 2 swords, yet Jesus said it was enough. If for protection, 2 swords doesn't seem like enough for a group of that size.

Spiritually speaking, I think it interesting that there is the Old and New Testaments, that's 2 swords! I'm still praying for more clarification from the Lord on that, but that's the best I have so far.

What I think is telling is that there is no mention anywhere in the New Testament of defending one's self using force of any type. Yet there is all kinds of mentions of suffering evil, rendering good for evil, turning the other cheek, etc.

But to me more importantly, faith says that we are to put our trust in Jesus to deliver us from evil, right? To flee all appearence of evil, etc. By faith we trust God to protect us, so it seems to me that we might not be so trusting that God will protect us if we walk through life with a sidearm strapped to our leg just in case.

akfools, let me ask you this...is trusting God to protect you from evil the same as trusting God to protect you from hungry grizzlies? I keep thinking about brother Daniel and the lions den. I'm thinking there is no difference.

This is a very good topic to discuss and pray about, especially considering the times are short. I know I need some clarification myself God willing.
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« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2011, 03:24:35 pm »


      I think you are right on with the two swords being the Old and the New Testaments. It does not make sense to me any other way.
 I do  not think that protecting yourself with a gun from a wild animal is the same as killing a human being in self defense. I do not think of a bear as being evil. If I kill a bear he will not go to hell. We have dominion over the beasts. Not over men.
It is simply being responsible to carry a gun or pepper spay or a BIG knife into the woods for protection.
Especially if you have children with you.
It is no different to me than making sure that you are prepared with a first aid kit or warm enough gear or food to eat.
It is not doubting the Lord or not putting enough faith in Him to be prepared with the provisions or skills that He has blessed you with.
Couldn't having faith in the Lord to deliver me from a wild animal be praying to  have the strength and composure and foresight and precision to counter an attack by a hungry animal?
If all that I had was a rock, a stick, a knife, a slingshot, or even only my bare hands I would have faith in the Lord to deliver me from the attack using what was available.
It is not easy to fight a grizzly bear. You could have a gun, get attacked by a bear, and never have the time to fire off a single shot.
But nine times out of ten you can scare a bear off by just shooting a round into the air.
In the woods, a gun is a valuable tool with many uses. You are only being responsible to have one.
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« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2011, 04:53:20 pm »

I hear what your saying. And if there is any place on earth one MIGHT consider some type of weapon, it's in grizzly country! They don't know how to turn the other cheek, especially when their tummy is grumbly.

But, I also believe with all my heart that God will not put me through anything that I cannot bare, and at the same time I also believe that we have a responsibility to respect wildlife and not put ourselves in a position of tempting a bear to make us a snack either. To me that falls into the catagory of not tempting God.

But in your area, outdoors I understand is a way of life, such as hunting, fishing, etc, and to do those things, a person must to some degree mingle with the wildlife, so it takes us right back to walking by faith and not by sight.

Personally, I don't think carrying a gun is being responsible perse'. I believe life can be just fine without one, even in bear country. To me, the key is not showing up at their dinner table when an animal is hungry!

Let's not forget that man is over the animals, and thus animals are subject to man. The various accounts of attacks by bears and big cats is from people who were recreating almost exclusively, such as sightseeing, biking etc, and I don't see those activities as being very edifying or expedient in our walk. To me, that's just vanity of man, and it may well be that God was telling them something when they got attacked.

Think about it. Why would God allow a bear to attack you in the first place? Seriously. Why put you through such a horrible experience? And how responsible is a parent that takes their children to that environment, especially knowing the risks?

I think it boils down to what is edifying and expedient, according to one's faith.
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