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Does it matter if evolution is compatible with Christianity or not?

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Author Topic: Does it matter if evolution is compatible with Christianity or not?  (Read 4368 times)
Mark
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« on: June 25, 2012, 01:53:30 pm »

We know the age of the Earth from the Bible. The Lord made Adam on day 6, he lived 930 years. So that the Earth at that point was 936 years old. Its just a matter of adding up the ages. So just that alone states the Earth is younger than 6000 years old. There is no history on the planet that goes back more than 2000 bc, because there was a flood, and civilization scattered after this time period. Its all in the Bible, how do you claim its older?
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« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2012, 01:58:11 pm »

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Apparently what you know of this topic, you're as passionate about it as about catholics. So I shall  try to tread lightly and explain.
Huh
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« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2012, 02:03:10 pm »

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The Bolivian site I know of from tv specials. It's the obvious carving of the stone that's impressive, and looks mechanically cut. What happen to that site that it's basically scattered about. It's like it just got knocked over and scattered on the ground.

That isnt what makes it pre flood. Its that the whole site is a sea port, that now resides in the Andes Mountains.
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« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2012, 03:12:48 pm »

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Ice Age? You believe that stuff too? How can you prove when it was cold or hot, or even for how long? Another topic!

I can prove it as History bears this out. It is also mentoned in the Book of Job about how man was living in the caves at the time. Maps, as you go back through time get more and more complex and accurate. And you can trace the existence and size of glaciers through out history. So ya there was an Ice age, after the flodd and the continental movement during the time of Peleg. Also mentioned during the book of Job, as he whitnessed it.

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« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2012, 03:29:41 pm »

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I had to look up the Peleg reference. This is another topic that's seperate, this Peleg theory of continental shifts. We got to talk about this stuff Mark. I'm surprised you are taken in by that "opposition of science falsely so called" ideology.

It's obvious that the scriptures are talking about the divisions of men, not the earth geologically.


Why is it so hard to believe? The animals had to get to these faraway places somehow. The only way possible is for the animals to leave the ark and then disperse with some way for them to get to the land. Australia, New Zealand, South America. Sorry but it fits and makes sense. Because as the animals moved on so did the people following them. Than you have Babel happen and that really disperses the people, and then the splitting of the land. I don’t have a problem with it at all, as it also explains many geological formations around the world and the ice age. It all happened just as the Bible records, in the correct order and time frame.
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« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2012, 04:42:19 pm »

Well, I do know there is no mention of any "continental shift" in scripture. And I don't know of any mention of anything one could call an ice age either.

Both of those theories are from secular science. Are they wrong because of that alone? Of course not. One must look a little deeper than that, but what do you use as a gage to determine a given thing? Scripture? Doctoral thesis? This is really the same as being under the law, which is carnal. Man's science says these things, but scripture doesn't.

Where the jump in logic is made in the thought that because an island is isolated, and has animals unique to that island, it's evidence. That's techincally an assumption. There is zero evidence as to how or why those animals are unique to a given location. I simply say God put them there, so what's the point? Arguing/debating it proves what?

And quite frankly, who cares what the age of earth is? Is it bilions? I don't think so. Thousands? Could be, but does that matter? Does any man have the without a doubt correct understanding of "1000 years as one day"? I admit I don't understand the full ramifications of what that means. My understanding is temporal, but that is eternal knowledge that we cannot handle just yet being yet carnal in the flesh.

Can God gouge the Grand Canyon in a day? Yes, without a doubt. Can He move land masses in a day, or in hundreds of years? Sure can. We believe those things are possible, they don't believe at all. Does not the Spirit give the understanding in His time? Struggle as we may, in the end, God opens their eyes through the Spirit, not our efforts to convince the naysayers.

It's a curious discussion, but I see no mention of ice ages or land shifts in scripture. But then there are many things not mentioned, so we are left to speculate and guess based on a limited carnal mind.

Is Tepe evidence of the garden? I don't think that can be claimed just yet, whether it's 11,500 or 4,000 years old. I need to see what they claim to use to date the site, and more specific carvings, which they claim most of the site is still covered.
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« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2012, 05:17:17 pm »

ON FINDING AN ICE AGE BOOK
http://www.ldolphin.org/iceage.html

It goes to credibility. Credibility of the Bible. Did you know, that evolution took a major step forward due to geology and peoples inability to deal with the questions posed by not understanding the Bible and that was used to push the stupid "gap" theory forward? The Bible makes it very clear when and what happened and in what order, and science backs up the Bible. So it is worth knowing.

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And quite frankly, who cares what the age of earth is?

1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:


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« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2012, 03:36:24 am »

Indeed, but that deosn't speak to whether or not a person cares about the age of earth.

Telling a person that the age of the earth is a distracting topic that takes away from Jesus and salvation is being ready to give an answer.

And quite frankly, I believe the "answer" to give every man is, "Search the scriptures...", and let the Spirit teach them what it says.
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« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2012, 06:10:51 am »

Indeed, but that deosn't speak to whether or not a person cares about the age of earth.

Telling a person that the age of the earth is a distracting topic that takes away from Jesus and salvation is being ready to give an answer.

And quite frankly, I believe the "answer" to give every man is, "Search the scriptures...", and let the Spirit teach them what it says.

and the scriptures say the Earth is 6000 years old. So... i honestly dont even understand this debate  Huh
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« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2012, 03:50:07 am »

What's to not understand? It's not complicated, so why the confusion? I simply have not agreed with what you claim about the earth age, and how you come up with that number.

And I have yet to say how old I do think it is, which I won't say because I don't believe anyone can prove it, regardless of what you claim the bible says. This topic still going proves what I said is true. If pressed, I side with the earth being much older than 6000 years. Don't make the mistake of thinking that the history of Israel is the same as earth. The geneology only proves the number of years of the men of Israel, not earth, for the sole purpose to prove who Jesus Christ is, and that His lineage fulfills prophecy, being of the tribe of Judah.

It's a silly distraction and I'm sorry for even posting the article that got this all started. It wasn't my intent to argue.

So you claim the bible says 6000 eh? And the claim is that you can add it up by using the geneologies listed in scripture?

I'm sorry, but I don't agree with that at all. All that does is show us how long a time period the listed geneology covers. What about when the earth was "without form and void"? That time period counts too, but it is impossible for a human to know how long that period was.

And you still haven't offered an explanation for the "1000 years as one day" verse. If that verse didn't exist Mark, I would go with what you say. But it does, and it says that we cannot tell how long it's been, period. Your guessing based on what men say.

You don't understand? I don't understand why people insist on arguing over topics like this. Not edifying nor expedient. These are the silly type debates that are unprofitable and vain.

And the "reason of the hope that is in you" is Jesus, not the age of earth.

20   O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane [and] vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: 
21   Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace [be] with thee. Amen.
1 Timothy 6:20,21 (KJB)
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« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2012, 05:51:49 am »

uhm, we have a direct genealogy of Jesus going all the way back to Adam. Unless I’m missing something, we have a perfect timeline. Or is something missing from the Bible? I’m sorry you disagree, yet I’m showing what the Bible says, where is your information coming from?

Nothing in science can date anything with a known date. It is always 100% wrong. Every time with out fail. That is a provable scientific fact. That has been proven by scientific tests and studies that have been verified by repetition by other scientists. Now if it is impossible to date anything outside of History, and we have a perfect record of History given by the Lord, well...

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And you still haven't offered an explanation for the "1000 years as one day" verse. If that verse didn't exist Mark, I would go with what you say. But it does, and it says that we cannot tell how long it's been, period. Your guessing based on what men say.

Uhm sorry I missed that one. But sure i will explain it. It simply states that TIME has no meaning for God. Plain and simple. It isn’t implying that the Lord lives by our standards of time; he is timeless and lives outside of his creation, as he existed before his creation, ie before time. So time itself has no meaning to him, he sees a thousand years in a day or a day in a thousand years, it doesn’t matter in the least as he is outside of his creation being outside of time as we know it.

It is also implying a physical limitation on the Lord that is just an impossibility to do. He has existed forever, even before his creation and he will exist forever even after this creation is destroyed. Just that very fact shows time doesn’t have any bearing on the Lord.

Col 1:17   And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 

Mic 5:2 ¶ But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, [though] thou be little among the thousands of Judah, [yet] out of thee shall he come forth unto me [that is] to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth [have been] from of old, from everlasting. 


Time has no meaning as he existed before time. So the verse is being used as that way. not implying a physical impediment that can’t exist.

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And the "reason of the hope that is in you" is Jesus, not the age of earth.

That is true, yet Rom 10:17   So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.    and well, the word of God says less than 6000 years old.
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« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2012, 06:21:54 am »

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I'm sorry, but I don't agree with that at all. All that does is show us how long a time period the listed geneology covers. What about when the earth was "without form and void"? That time period counts too, but it is impossible for a human to know how long that period was.

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 
Gen 1:2   And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 
Gen 1:3   And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 
Gen 1:4   And God saw the light, that [it was] good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 
Gen 1:5   And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.  


That was all on the FIRST day. Day one. This was day 1 of his creation. In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth that means that in the beginnig, on day 1 God created the heaven and the earth. It couldnt exist before this, as the Bible says he created them on day 1.

You should really watch Kent Hovinds creation videos. Creation is what made me a believer. Im a little surprised by some of your responces.

Even Jesus talks of a young earth.

Mar 10:6   But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. 

Notice he says the beginning of creation. That means he made people right around the same time he made creation. 5 days later actually.

Here is a very telling passage on creation.

Jhn 5:45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is [one] that accuseth you, [even] Moses, in whom ye trust. 
Jhn 5:46   For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 
Jhn 5:47   But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words? 


Well what did Moses write?

Exd 20:11   For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. 

6 days. 6 literal 24 hour days.

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and it says that we cannot tell how long it's been, period. Your guessing based on what men say.

Where am i going on what any man has to say? I beleive the Bible, your saying the earth is older than what the Bible claims, that is a teaching of man.

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and it says that we cannot tell how long it's been, period

book, chapter and verse please?
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« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2012, 12:50:21 pm »

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Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 
Gen 1:2   And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 
Gen 1:3   And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 
Gen 1:4   And God saw the light, that [it was] good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 
Gen 1:5   And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.   


That was all on the FIRST day. Day one. This was day 1 of his creation. In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth that means that in the beginnig, on day 1 God created the heaven and the earth. It couldnt exist before this, as the Bible says he created them on day 1.

You should really watch Kent Hovinds creation videos. Creation is what made me a believer. Im a little surprised by some of your responces.

That's what I thought was the reason for your understanding, a man's doctrine. In one line you say "you should...Kent Hovind..." and the next you ask "where am I going on what any man has to say..." Come on, Mark relax.

If that were true, then why lead me astray by pushing some man's wrong opinions on me? How about, "Feed my sheep"

Here's the flaw in your understanding; you believe that verse 1 is part of "the evening and morning were the first day", which is wrong, it is not.

Verse 1 is a seperate event altogether from verse 2 forwards in time.

Here's why; after verse 1, where does scripture say heaven was created after verse 2?

It doesn't Mark, because it was created, along with earth, in verse 1. THEN verse 2 begins describing what happened to the earth later after "the beginning", to give it form and it not be void.

Verse 1 is a seperate span of time all it's own, and has no description how long it had been since heaven and earth was created back in the "beginning".

So to answer directly, look at Genesis 1:1, that is the "book, chapter, verse".
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« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2012, 01:43:09 pm »

NO, that is mans doctrine thatdidnt come about until AFTER the 1800's. Before that all the way to creation no one beleived that. The GAP THEORY, which is what you are subribing to is a new invention, created by man, to fit in evolution. Every where else in the Bible, it talks about a full 24 hour 6 day period.

Exd 20:11   For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Just how many days is Moses talking about here? uhm, 6?

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That's what I thought was the reason for your understanding, a man's doctrine. In one line you say "you should...Kent Hovind..." and the next you ask "where am I going on what any man has to say..." Come on, Mark relax.

wow, really? He presents exactly what the Bible says, he doesnt add or make stuff up, like gap theory. There is no gap, as that would make the rest of the Bible a lie as it corresponds to a literal 24 hour 6 days of creation.

you still havent presented any evidence contrary to what i have posted other than claim im posting some mans doctrine when i have backed it all up with scripture. This is really not like you, who almost always backs up what you say with scripture, yet here your not using it at all and are teaching against what the Bible clearly teaches.  Huh
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« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2012, 02:13:39 pm »

I'm not familiar with this "gap" thing you speak of. I don't follow churchianity stuff, nor do I tell people to read some man's books. I tell them to search the scriptures.

You said I should go read some man's books. Your suppose to lift up not put down. It would have been better had you just stuck to the scriptures you did post and let God do His job via the Spirit.

And I have posted scripture, by quoting your post! No need to post the same verses right behind what you posted. Like I said, RELAX already. Remember I'm not some chump at PPF your arguing with. so spare the sarcastic remarks. I can be reasonable and will listen to scripture. I reject man's books. Any clown with a pen and paper can write a book spouting their personal interpretations.

I say just stick to scripture. If you had, and posted the verse from Exodus from the start, we might not be this far along. I had forgotten that verse. It clearly does contradict what I have said that verse 1 is a seperate event. I can admit error Mark.

Here's the point for me saying what I have...

After verse 1, there is no more mention of heaven being made in verses 2-31, is there? It's only mentioned in verse 1. Later, heaven is mentioned, having already been created, when it mentions "the firmament of heaven". THAT is the reason I say that earth is older than what the geneology shows, because the geneology covers only a portion of the time earth has existed.

The Exodus 20:11 verse seems to say different.

I do disagree about your assertion on the "gap" thing. Your trying to put that doctrine on me, and I haven't even heard of it before! What I have learned I learned on my own with God. Don't you dare lump me in with heretics and charlatans.

I'm not doing anything intentional as you suggest. If I am wrong, so be it. I'll be corrected. And I have used scripture, so stop with the false accusations please. Your zealousness is getting the best of you. I did post my evidence, you just rejected it without giving it a second thought because your convinced some man named Kent is correct because he wrote some book.

I don't dispute what the bible says about a day. Where have I? Was the first day literally a 24 hour period? I side with it was, but honestly I am not convinced that's the correct interpretation. Is it possible? Of course it is.

Will knowing the correct answer save your soul? Nope.

As there are many things we don't know, and many we know only in part, so that means we don't know everything, and must humble ourselves and not get all arrogant about statistics and numbers and details that aren't edifying or expedient. THAT is why I traditional avoid these type topics. The discussion ALWAYS ends like this.

I'll post it again...

20   O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane [and] vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: 
21   Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace [be] with thee. Amen.
1 Timothy 6:20,21 (KJB)
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« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2012, 02:29:43 pm »

are you just playing games or something? honesty, i dont get it.  Huh
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« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2012, 02:57:56 pm »

I don't play games. You've known me for years now.

It's offensive for a brother to suggest that I read another book than the bible. Let's make that perfectly clear.

I did acknowledge the Exodus verse, which caused me to re-read the verses, all of them.

What I have been overlooking, because of pride I'd say, is...

6   And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 
7   And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which [were] under the firmament from the waters which [were] above the firmament: and it was so. 
8   And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
Genesis 1:6-8 (KJB)


Particularly the part where it says "called the firmament heaven". I guess I was just seeing the word firmament, and simply overlooked the rest, being more focused on the first couple verses.

What is initially misleading in a way is that it also says in verses 14 and 15 "the firmament of heaven" when the firmament is heaven as stated in verse 8.

So Heaven was created on the second day. That's blows my initial claim out of the water!

"Let God be true, and every man a liar".

"Pride [goeth] before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall." Proverbs 16:18 (KJB)

I have no problem with everything being created in 6 days. Definately doable by God. Is the earth, in the form we know it, approx. 6000 years old? As earth as we know it wasn't around till the third day, and the geneology could not have started till Adam, which was on the 6th day, so by the time the geneology started with Adam, the earth was already about 5+ days old, that is if in fact the days are actual 24 hour days, which would mean the earth is about 6000 years old.

The earth was created on the 1st day, I now agree, but what we know as earth with dry land didn't happen till day 3.

9   And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry [land] appear: and it was so. 
10   And God called the dry [land] Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that [it was] good. 
11   And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, [and] the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed [is] in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. 
12   And the earth brought forth grass, [and] herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed [was] in itself, after his kind: and God saw that [it was] good. 
13   And the evening and the morning were the third day. 
Genesis 1:9-13 (KJB)
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« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2013, 07:21:38 am »

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Does it matter if evolution is compatible with Christianity or not?

Growing up, I didn’t give the “fact” of evolution more than a passing thought. It was just a given. Then I became a Christian—and for the first time, really had to start thinking about the origins of humanity.

The Bible is quite clear about how the world was created: “In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth” (Gen. 1:1). There was God—then God made everything that is with only a word (Gen. 1:3). According to Genesis, over the course of six days God spoke everything that is into being:

    time, space and matter (day 1)
    the sky when He separated the waters (day 2)
    the dry lands, plants and trees, each according to its kind and already bearing seed (day 3)
    the sun, moon and stars (day 4)
    all the creatures that live in the sea and all the birds of the air, each according to its kind (day 5)
    the rest of the animal kingdom, each according to its kind. He also creates the first man and woman according to His image and likeness (day 6)

And then he rested from his work, to set the pattern of work and rest that we ought to follow today.

In recent times (the last century or so in particular), there’s been a great deal of debate as to whether or not the creation account of Genesis 1 should be taken literally. Maybe it’s merely poetic expression? What does the Bible mean by “day” in this chapter—does it mean 24 hours or an undetermined period of time? Do we need a historic Adam and Eve?

Does it matter if Christianity and evolution are compatible or not?

When people ask this question, here’s what they (usually) really mean: Can you be a Christian and believe in evolution? That’s what people really want to know.

Understandably, Christians want to avoid setting up unnecessary barriers to their friends and family hearing the gospel and potentially coming to faith—and this is a big one.

It’s a pretty audacious claim, isn’t it? (It’s also the only creation account I’ve found so far that doesn’t involve some sort of conflict.) I totally get why people don’t “get” this and don’t see it as a “must have” of the Christian faith.

So does it really matter if Christianity and evolution are compatible?

Yep.

To be clear: this is not an issue of salvation—one can believe the gospel and be a genuine believer while embracing evolution. However, it does present numerous problems:

1. It affects how you read the Bible. Throughout the Scriptures, the creation account of Genesis is assumed as being true. A few examples that affirm the creation account of Genesis include Exodus 20:8-11 (“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God…For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.”), Mark 10:6, 1 Cor. 15:45, 1 Tim. 2:13 and Rom. 5:12, among others.

If we embrace a view that says the early chapters of Genesis aren’t factually accurate, we’ve got a number of issues. First, it flies in the face of God’s proclaiming that everything was good (which he does each day). Death, throughout the Scriptures, is uniformly portrayed as an enemy, something to be feared, even hated. But evolution requires it, which suggests that death would then be good, wouldn’t it?

More significantly it creates an issue in understanding our need of the gospel itself. If the events of the garden didn’t happen, then is sin as pervasive an issue as the Scriptures teach? What’s the alternative explanation for humanity’s condition as outlined in the rest of Scripture?

2. It affects how you view humanity. If evolution is true, then it drastically impacts our understanding of the dignity and value of humanity. If we are here through millions upon millions of years of slow, incremental evolutionary changes, changing from one species to another, then we’re all interconnected and truly no more unique than any other creature upon the planet. If so, then humans have no more dignity or value than a dog, cat or potato.

Yet, the Bible uniformly portrays humanity as having inherent dignity—all because we are created in the image and likeness of God. We are given a preeminent position in creation as God’s representatives within the created order to steward, cultivate and care for His creation. Practically speaking, how we view parenting, abortion and reproductive rights, marriage, work… everything is connected to the creation account.

These are no small issues. How we view the creation account doesn’t declare us saved or unsaved, but it does impact how we view practically everything.

And it really, really matters. Have you wrestled with the question?
http://www.bloggingtheologically.com/2013/01/14/does-it-matter-if-evolution-compatible-with-christianity-or-not/

I have real serious problems with this article, below is the post i made in the comments section. 



You cannot believe in evolution and in the Bible at the same time what so ever. The two are diametrically opposed. The entire evolutionary theory stands opposed to the creation account. The Lord created plants before the sun, you cannot fix that with evolution. It also puts death before sin and makes Jesus into a LIAR.

You cannot be a Christian and call Jesus a liar. it just doesn't work.Jesus said

Joh 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
Joh 5:47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Moses said God created everything in 6 literal days.

Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Most believe Moses transcribed Genesis also, so just that alone stands in defiance of evolution. A Christian cannot believe in evolution at all, the 2 do not even come close in their belief systems. And evolution is a belief, a religion it is not science. So it is very simple,

Jos_24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
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« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2013, 09:19:35 am »

Mat_7:6  Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

Mat 15:25  Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
Mat 15:26  But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs
.

Mat 13:45  Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:
Mat 13:46  Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.


Mat 4:10  Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Yep, scriptures make it clear.
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« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2013, 03:11:28 pm »

"A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump." Galatians 5:9 (KJB)
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« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2013, 10:20:06 am »

The Coarsening of Our Culture
26 January 2013
Listen Now!
http://acbee66e2a535ed5eef6-a57713667b73bca827b7322695933868.r20.cf2.rackcdn.com/OTM2013_01_26.mp3

Jan talks to Ken Ham about the coarsening of the culture. When God is tossed out of everything and when the lie of evolution is the gold standard everywhere, society will diminish. Jan plays several sound bites of atheist Richard Dawkins who symbolizes the war on God today. Later in the program, David Wheaton joins the conversation. They continue the discussion of the decline of the culture concluding it is getting more and more difficult to be a light in a world that is darkening.  Government is the new "god". This provides a great opportunity for the church to stand up and proclaim the truth. We're not optimistic that today's church will do that, however there is always a remnant who will remain faithful and shine the light in the darkness! 
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« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2013, 03:11:11 am »

Noted Apologist Calls Out Evangelical Leaders Who 'Undermine the Word of God'

A noted biblical apologist and expert on creationism is calling out several of his colleagues. An audience of some 300 people at the recent National Religious Broadcasters (NRB) convention in Nashville were socked to learn of the number of evangelical leaders who don’t believe in a literal 6 days of creation narrative.

At the recent NRB convention Ken Ham, president and founder of Answers in Genesis and the Cincinnati-based Creation Museum, gave a lecture entitled, “The Age of the Earth, Biblical Authority, and the Downfall of the USA.”

During his presentation Ham showed video clips of prominent evangelicals to illustrate how some modern Christian theologians are, what he calls, compromising the Word of God.

He believes in a literal interpretation of the creation account found in the Book of Genesis.

“I’m not attacking these people personally and I’m not saying they aren’t Christians or preach the Gospel or I don’t respect them,” Ham told Christian Press News. “I’m dealing with a particular issue that is important in which God’s Word is being undermined. Wittingly or unwittingly many of these famous Christian leaders are really undermining the authority of the Word of God.

”Ham mentioned, in particular, John Piper, founder and teacher of desiringGod.org and chancellor of Bethlehem College & Seminary, co-pastor of Saint Andrew’s Chapel in Sanford, Fla. Dr. R.C. Sproul and Mark Driscoll, founding pastor of Mars Hill Church in Seattle, Washington, as Christian leaders who have drifted away from teaching a young earth perspective.

“Many Christian leaders today will say ‘who cares what Genesis says and what does it matter about the age of the earth as long as you trust in Jesus. We need to go out there and preach the Gospel,’” said Ham. “But the point we need to understand is the Gospel comes from this book called the Bible and if generations of people have been led to believe they can’t really trust the Bible or lead to doubt that you can trust its authority or doubt its history – eventually they will reject the Bible and won’t listen to the Gospel.”

During a recent interview on the Bill O’Reilly show, Dr. Robert Jeffress, pastor of the First Baptist Church of Dallas, acknowledged his belief that the earth could have been created 13.7 billion years ago.

“I think it very well could have been,” Jeffress told O’Reilly. “One of the things fundamentalist Christians mess up on is they try to say the earth is 6,000 years old. The Bible never makes that claim.”

Ham denounced Jeffress statement maintaining the Bible makes no such claim that the earth is billions of years old.

“Pastors need to be told that when you do that, you undermine the authority of Scripture,” Ham said. “They are helping atheism by undermining the authenticity of the word of God.”

http://www.christianpress.com/us/482-noted-apologist-calls-out-evangelical-leaders-who-undermine-the-word-of-god.html?device=desktop&utm
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« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2013, 03:31:30 am »

Pastor Jilted by Tebow Under Fire by Renowned Creationist for ‘Undermining Word of God’ on O’Reilly

A megachurch pastor that was recently jilted by New York Jets quarterback Tim Tebow after extending an invitation to speak at his church is now being rebuked by a renowned creationist and apologist for comments he made last night on The O’Reilly Factor.

Following the success of the television documentary The Bible, FOX talk show host Bill O’Reilly brought Pastor Robert Jeffress of First Baptist Church of Dallas on his broadcast to talk about whether the Bible should be taken literally. He began by asking about Adam and Eve and evolution.

“Did they literally live in the Garden of Eden and usurp the evolutionary process?” O’Reilly asked Jeffress.

“Absolutely,” Jeffress replied. “They lived. They were actual human beings, and Jesus affirmed that in Matthew 19, and so I think Jesus knew what he was talking about.”

“[But] don’t you kind of have to reject the science of evolution and carbon dating, and all of those things?” O’Reilly inquired. “So, it’s kind of incompatible with science — or am I wrong?”

“No, I think you’re wrong on this, Bill,” Jeffress responded. “The Bible does not contradict true science. It may contradict the passing fads of scientific theory that are always evolving. For example, it used to be thought that the cosmos always existed. But, then we had Sir Frederick Coyle, who named the Big Bang Theory, who said, ‘Guess what? The universe had a beginning 13.7 billion years ago.’”

O’Reilly then asked Jeffress if he believed the earth began 13.7 billion years ago.
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“I think it very well could have been,” Jeffress acknowledged. “One of the things fundamentalist Christians mess up on is they try to say the earth is 6,000 years old. The Bible never makes that claim.”

O’Reilly then outlined that he believes that the Bible is an allegory, and that God guided evolution.

“Now, I was taught in my Catholic school that a lot of stories in the Bible are allegorical,” he said. “For example, in the Old Testament where you stone people [and] you have slaves, and obviously Jesus didn’t want to stone anyone or have slaves. And Jonah got swallowed by a whale for three days. He lived in a condo in the whale’s tummy. You know? Come on!”

The two then began to wrangle about how much of the Bible is literal.

“Why would you stop at the Old Testament?” Jeffress asked. “Why would you as a believer — and you’re a believer –”

“Yeah, I believe,” O’Reilly answered.

“Why would you stop at the Old Testament and say these stories are too fantastical to believe, but [say] I’m going to believe in a virgin birth and resurrection?” Jeffress questioned.

“It’s certainly possible that the Lord God who created the universe could have had Jonah in the belly of the whale,” O’Reilly admitted. “It’s possible, alright, if you’re a believer at that level.”

Nearing the end of the segment, O’Reilly asked Jeffress if he could be considered a Christian despite his beliefs.

“Can I be a good Christian if I believe that the Bible in some cases is allegorical?” he inquired. “Can I be?”

“You can certainly be a Christian and go to Heaven,” Jeffress affirmed. “All you have to do is believe in Christ as your savior.”

“That’s what I thought,” O’Reilly answered. “I feel better now.”

“Well, good, I want to make you feel better,” Jeffress said with a smile.

Upon viewing the segment which was posted on YouTube by Jeffress’ church, Ken Ham, president and CEO of Answers in Genesis and the Creation Museum, denounced Jeffress’ statements as casting doubt upon the written word of God. He posted on Facebook about the matter this morning.

“I was so saddened to hear a number of the pastor’s responses to Bill O’Reilly’s questions,” he wrote, citing several areas that caused concern. “[T]o send a signal to coming generations that one can accept such false ideas like the Big Bang and billions of years they are taught at public school and secular colleges — and many compromising Christian Colleges — is a major factor why so many of the coming generations begin to doubt the authority of the Word of God.”

“I cut him a little slack in some areas,” he told Christian News Network later today, noting that Jeffress did defend a literal Adam and Eve and contended that the Bible is not metaphorical. “But I believe in this area he is undermining the authority of Scripture.”

Ham said that pastors like Jeffress need to be aware of how damaging comments such as his can be to the cause of Christ.

“You have just caused the church a major problem, [because you are saying that] it doesn’t matter what you believe about these things,” he explained. “You tell the world, ‘You can go and have your Big Bang Theory.’”

“Dr. Jeffress represents a lot of pastors who believe it doesn’t matter what you believe about the age of the earth as long as you believe the Gospel,” he lamented. “Pastors need to be told that when you do that, you undermine the authority of Scripture. … They are helping atheism by undermining the authenticity of the word of God.”

He stated that the Bible nowhere supports the notion that the earth is billions of years old.

“You don’t get billions of years in Scripture. You get it from man’s flawed dating methods,” Ham said. “You’re imposing something from outside into the Bible.”

He also expressed concern about Jeffress’ comments about not having to believe in the Bible to go to Heaven.

“How that came across to people is not good. I would like clarification on what he means,” Ham said. “In some ways I think he was trying to be nice to Bill O’Reilly, but it’s not a matter of making people feel good; it’s a matter of challenging people with the truth.”

As previously reported, football superstar Tim Tebow recently decided to cancel his appearance at an upcoming grand opening ceremony of Jeffress’ new $130 million church facility, an effort that is said to be the largest in church history. However, the New York Jets quarterback did not cancel over Jeffress’ thoughts on the age of the earth, but rather that the pastor is deemed as controversial by some for various public statements regarding his opposition to homosexuality and other matters.

http://christiannews.net/2013/03/07/pastor-jilted-by-tebow-under-fire-by-renowned-creationist-for-undermining-word-of-god-on-oreilly/
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« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2013, 03:45:29 am »

Quote
As previously reported, football superstar Tim Tebow recently decided to cancel his appearance at an upcoming grand opening ceremony of Jeffress’ new $130 million church facility,

How could anybody endorse such a group that spends 130 MILLION on a building. That's an outrage and insult to the doctrine of Christ.
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« Reply #24 on: March 10, 2013, 10:35:35 pm »

How could anybody endorse such a group that spends 130 MILLION on a building. That's an outrage and insult to the doctrine of Christ.

Yeah, I know the modern-day Churchianity pastor does deceitful jobs in tickling their pews' ears to get more offering plate money from them...but seriously, this is in the MILLIONS we're talking about here. It's pretty obvious that SOMEONE aka the Illuminati is bankrolling this guy's ministry.
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« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2013, 10:40:18 pm »

Quote
Nearing the end of the segment, O’Reilly asked Jeffress if he could be considered a Christian despite his beliefs.

“Can I be a good Christian if I believe that the Bible in some cases is allegorical?” he inquired. “Can I be?”

“You can certainly be a Christian and go to Heaven,” Jeffress affirmed. “All you have to do is believe in Christ as your savior.”

“That’s what I thought,” O’Reilly answered. “I feel better now.”

“Well, good, I want to make you feel better,” Jeffress said with a smile.

Typical Churchianity pastor response - this is pretty much the response I hear alot nowdays from the modern-day pastor, no matter what questions they get thrown at them.
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« Reply #26 on: March 11, 2013, 06:47:10 am »

Monday, March 11, 2013
THE LIE: EVOLUTION

Host: Larry Spargimino
Guest: Ken Ham

The Genesis account of Creation is an absolute part of the Gospel. Paul warns Christians about false science. We must not only be against evolution, but also be ready to explain why to our children, even in high school and college. Ken Ham refutes evolutionists with science facts which confirm the biblical account of Creation.

Bible in the News: Another Consequence of Women in Combat by Jerry Guiltner



this was an awesome broadcast.
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« Reply #27 on: March 11, 2013, 02:18:02 pm »

Quote from: Mark on March 11, 2013, 06:47:10 am
Monday, March 11, 2013
THE LIE: EVOLUTION

Host: Larry Spargimino
Guest: Ken Ham

The Genesis account of Creation is an absolute part of the Gospel. Paul warns Christians about false science. We must not only be against evolution, but also be ready to explain why to our children, even in high school and college. Ken Ham refutes evolutionists with science facts which confirm the biblical account of Creation.

Bible in the News: Another Consequence of Women in Combat by Jerry Guiltner

Quote from: Mark on March 11, 2013, 06:47:10 am
Monday, March 11, 2013
THE LIE: EVOLUTION

Host: Larry Spargimino
Guest: Ken Ham

The Genesis account of Creation is an absolute part of the Gospel. Paul warns Christians about false science. We must not only be against evolution, but also be ready to explain why to our children, even in high school and college. Ken Ham refutes evolutionists with science facts which confirm the biblical account of Creation.

Bible in the News: Another Consequence of Women in Combat by Jerry Guiltner



this was an awesome broadcast.

Yes, it sure was!
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« Reply #28 on: June 17, 2013, 12:30:20 pm »

Quote
Does it matter if evolution is compatible with Christianity or not?

Yep and here is a good reason why. You cant be a Christian and call Jesus a LIAR. Sorry, just doesnt work that way.

Cincinnati Museum Issues Clarification After Employee Mocks Creation Museum

A controversy sparked by critical comments made by the assistant manager of the Cincinnati Museum Center against Ken Ham's Creation Museum has been resolved following further communication.
 
"We've become aware that a staff member recently posted personal comments on a Cincinnati.com story, but those comments were his personal opinions and not those of Museum Center," said Elizabeth Pierce, vice president of marketing communications for the Cincinnati Museum Center, according to Cincinnati.com. A joint statement by the two museums on Monday also noted that representatives have met and resolved the issue.
 
Kurt Percy, an assistant manager at the Cincinnati Museum Center, stirred up tensions when he posted comments under a recent article about the Creation Museum arguing that it is "not a museum," and asking people to stop referring to it as such.
 
"It is a theme park that misleads the public and it is a pockmark on our religion. The fact that someone profits by misrepresenting their faith to children and families is shameful," Percy reportedly wrote under the June 4th Cincinnati.com article, though the comments now appear to have been removed.
 
"When we wonder why America is falling behind in science education, it is because places like this are allowed to exist. I'm glad to see that their attendance is declining despite generous handouts from the state of Kentucky at the expense of their university funding," he continued.


Ken Ham, the president of Answers in Genesis and the Creation Museum, caught wind of those comments, and defended the biblically-based museum in a blog post online.

"It's interesting that an assistant manager at the Cincinnati Museum Center took the time to attack the Creation Museum," Ham posted on June 7.
 
"Now, we realize he's not one of the top people at the museum center and has nothing to do with content, but Percy's comments reflect on the entire museum center. While we at Answers in Genesis do not agree with the teaching of evolution and millions of years at the Cincinnati Museum Center (e.g., in the Museum of Natural History and Science), nevertheless we don't discourage people from visiting there and we don't publicly attack them in such a manner as Percy has done to the Creation Museum."
 
Ham argued that Percy's comments are an example of the "intolerance" shown against biblical Christianity in today's increasingly secularized culture.
 
"Really, it would seem from his comments that Percy is showing his intolerance of the message of the Creation Museum. Instead of promoting freedom of speech and religion, Percy does not want a place like the Creation Museum to exist because he disagrees with the message," the AiG president said.
 
Pierce clarified that that the Cincinnati Museum Center does not comment on other organizations.
 
"We think that other museums and other organizations have a right to exist as much as individuals have a right to express their personal opinions," the vice president of marketing communications said.
 
Ham pointed out that Percy's comments are incorrect, as the Creation Museum is privately funded and does not receive money from the state, while the Cincinnati Museum Center did indeed receive $5.5 million in taxpayer money in 2011.
 
Reflecting on the incident, the AiG president said that he is more disappointed than upset, as the Creation Museum aims at being a good community partner and promotes other attractions in the region.
 
"If you go to the attractions page on our website, you'll see the Museum Center listed there along with the zoo, the art museum and a lot of other places," Ham said.

Read more at http://global.christianpost.com/news/cincinnati-museum-issues-clarification-after-employee-mocks-creation-museum-97955/#LDJsxIMHJ60cJL7J.99

Quote
and it is a pockmark on our religion.

Bud your not part of it, if you were you would have Believed Jesus...
Joh 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
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« Reply #29 on: June 17, 2013, 02:57:08 pm »

Yep and here is a good reason why. You cant be a Christian and call Jesus a LIAR. Sorry, just doesnt work that way.

Yeah, I've seen a few of these online discernment/end times ministries embrace the gap theory. Not just Steve Quayle and Tom Horn, but a few others that are quite surprising.

Even Bryan, in his previous ministry he was at, admitted that one of the believers fellowshipping with them believed in the gap theory, but nonetheless they didn't dissociate fellowship with him.

I agree it IS a big deal - if the gap theory exists, then either that "previous civilization" God just let run in chaos(which would make his entire word lies), or it would just invalidate the entire events with Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden(and hence invalidate the rest of the bible).
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