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Pre-tribulation rapture raises its head again for me...

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Exodus 20:5  Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
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Author Topic: Pre-tribulation rapture raises its head again for me...  (Read 495 times)
Lisa
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« on: February 24, 2011, 04:19:16 am »

All along i have been a post tribulation rapturist-Although-Please please-dont want to get into a slanging match and I dont raise this discussion again to re-ignite a civil war (we are on the winning team and Jesus won this at half time).
However-studying prophesy in the light of recent events i do want to share some biblical evidence for the pre-trib side...
1. I wonder whether Ezekiel 37 is prophetic of the rapture, and clearly occurs before Ezekiel 38/39 the battle of Magog-Gog (which occurs on the last day).
2.Studying Daniel 11-12, the gathering of the Gog Magog nations occurs, then Michael (Israels Angel) rises, and after there appears to be rapture before the end battle.

Daniel 12
 1And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.   3And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.   4But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

 5Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river.

 6And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

 7And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

 8And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?

 9And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

 10Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

 11And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

 12Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

 13But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.


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Psalm 51:17
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« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2011, 08:55:57 am »

To be honest, I myself isn't 100% sure which escatology doctrine is correct, although it IS certain that Preterism is pure heresy.

However, my only gripe with the pre-trib doctrine is today's 501c3 corporate church gives out this idea that everything will be going goody-goody, smoothy, drinking coffee in the church kitchen, playing bowling, taking a walk in the park, attending a baseball game, or whatever fun thing's going on in a peaceful atmosphere, and BOOM, the rapture happens and chaos happens all over the place before the antichrist emerges.

Both Mike Hoggard and Brannon House(both of whom I listen to regularly), while both pre-trib, said it is NOT going to be this way. Everything's going to get worse and worse before the antichrist emerges, and this is really going to be the trial of our faith.

And for that matter too, David Bay at cuttingedge.org was able to sneak into a lecture spoken by a high level occultist(forgot his name), and explained how the NWO has already made preparations to explain all these "disappeances" once their world teacher maitreya emerges - he said there would be 3 groups of people in terms of their responses...1) The New Agers already anticipating his arrival, 2) Those that are stuck in-between and initially don't know what to think, and 3) Does NOT fall for this world teacher being the 'savior of the earth'...it will be the 3rd group that will "disappear" mysteriously, and the NWO will then explain these "disappearances" to the rest of the world. No, I'm not advocating this position, but this is what a high level occultist said.

Ultimately, we will all find out pretty soon.
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William
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« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2011, 07:29:45 pm »

I studied a while back about this issue, and couldn't really for sure get a final and absolute doctrine about it. I'm not entirely sure, but I will say this, that many will die "during" the tribulation, though that's not really a gathering away (Or rapture as some call it). There will be a Post-Gathering away to the Lord for sure, however as for Pre-Tribulation Its really hard to tell by the scriptures if there will be one. I would plan for the worst, and hope for the best. At least then if things do get bad you be ready and be able to handle it. And hey if there is a Pre-Tribulation than that's just a blessing, and you will be with the Lord.

I did hear the Pastor say something interesting at the new Church I found, is that he said "Were not appointed to the wrath of God, because the wrath of God was poured out on Jesus Christ 2,000 Years ago" This is true, and there's a verse that came to mind, however I have not had a chance to look it up, because I have been using a shop vac all day sucking up water that's been coming into our basement today, because of all the rain we got. I will probably have to go down in a minute to suck more up, thankfully its starting to stop coming in less now. It will stop soon enough as this has happened in the past.

I can't remember too many of the scriptures that I did in my Tribulation study, however a lot of them are in the Gospels, I think Luke Chapters 21, & 24, Matthew Chapter 24, also II Thessalonians Chapter 2, and also a lot in Revelation. (Well looks like the Lord brought them back into remembrance, praise the Lord.) I plan for the worst and hope for the best!

God Bless.
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Christian40
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« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2011, 01:15:31 am »

I posted this before called "The Pre-Trib Rapture" exposed:

http://endtimesandcurrentevents.freesmfhosting.com/index.php/topic,269.0.html
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akfools
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« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2011, 07:39:08 pm »

Corrie ten Boom Warns Against Pre-Tribulation Rapture False Doctrine.

Many Christians are unaware of the warning written in a letter by Corrie ten Boom where Miss ten Boom warns against a pre-tribulation rapture false doctrine. A  Dutch Christian and a survivor of the Nazi Holocaust concentration camps. Corrie spearheaded a rescue operation in Holland that helped hundreds of Jews escape the Nazi extermination camps, and travelled all over the world as an ambassador for Christ telling her story. In her worldwide travels Miss ten Boom met with many Christians abroad. Many in the Suffering Church were enduring persecution just as she had. She met with Church leaders of the underground church in China. There she became aware of what had happened to the Chinese church in 1949. At that time Mao Tse Tung was bringing China into communism. The American missionaries had left the country. Chinese Christians entered into a time of intense persecution.

During that period the Pre-Tribulation Rapture doctrine had been the accepted teaching. But there was a problem. And it turned out to be a serious one. This Biblically unfounded doctrine had not prepared the Chinese Church for witness under trial. Christian believers were interrogated and brutalized under the Red Guard. Many fell away from the faith in those times.

Corrie ten Boom's story is told through her book The Hiding Place, and the motion picture released by the same name in the 1970s.

Corrie ten Boom went home to be with her Lord April 15, 1983, but her inspiring testimony for Christ will endure.

Following is the letter Corrie left warning against a pre-tribulation rapture false doctrine that Christians all over the world, and especially in America need to take very seriously.In this capacity Corrie ten Boom has earned the right to be heard. She is eminently qualified to present this special word of warning to the Western Church:

~~~~~

"The world is deathly ill. It is dying. The Great Physician has already signed the death certificate. Yet there is still a great work for Christians to do. They are to be streams of living water, channels of mercy to those who are still in the world. It is possible for them to do this because they are overcomers.

Christians are ambassadors for Christ. They are representatives from Heaven to this dying world. And because of our presence here, things will change.

My sister, Betsy, and I were in the Nazi concentration camp at Ravensbruck because we committed the crime of loving Jews. Seven hundred of us from Holland, France, Russia, Poland and Belgium were herded into a room built for two hundred. As far as I knew, Betsy and I were the only two representatives of Heaven in that room.

We may have been the Lord's only representatives in that place of hatred, yet because of our presence there, things changed. Jesus said, "In the world you shall have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world." We too, are to be overcomers – bringing the light of Jesus into a world filled with darkness and hate.

Sometimes I get frightened as I read the Bible, and as I look in this world and see all of the tribulation and persecution promised by the Bible coming true. Now I can tell you, though, if you too are afraid, that I have just read the last pages. I can now come to shouting "Hallelujah! Hallelujah!" for I have found where it is written that Jesus said,

"He that overcometh shall inherit all things
and I will be His God,
and he shall be My son."
This is the future and hope of this world. Not that the world will survive – but that we shall be overcomers in the midst of a dying world.

Betsy and I, in the concentration camp, prayed that God would heal Betsy who was so weak and sick.

"Yes, the Lord will heal me,", Betsy said with confidence.

She died the next day and I could not understand it. They laid her thin body on the concrete floor along with all the other corpses of the women who died that day.

It was hard for me to understand, to believe that God had a purpose for all that. Yet because of Betsy's death, today I am traveling all over the world telling people about Jesus.

There are some among us teaching there will be no tribulation that the Christians will be able to escape all this.  These are the false teachers that Jesus was warning us to expect in the latter days.  Mos of them have little knowledge of what is already going on across the world. I have been in countries where the saints are already suffering terrible persecution.

In China, the Christians were told, " Don't worry, before the tribulation comes you will be translated- raptured."  Then came a terrible persecution.  Millions of Christians were tortued to death.  Later, I heard a Bishop from China say, sadly,

"We have failed..
We should have made the people strong for persecution,
rather than telling them Jesus would come first.
Tell the people to be strong in times of persecution,
how to stand when the tribulation comes,
to stand and not faint."

I feel I have a divine mandate to go and tell the people of this world that it is possible to be strong in the Lord Jesus Christ.  We are in training for the tribulation, but more than sixty percent of the Body of Christ across the world has already entered into the tribulation.  There is no way to escape it.  We are next.

Since I have already gone through prison for Jesus' sake, and since I met the Bishop in China, now every time I read a good Bible text I think, "Hey, I can use that in the time of tribulation." Then I write it down and learn it by heart.

When I was in the concentration camp, a camp where only twenty percent of the women came out alive, we tried to cheer each other up by saying, "Nothing could be any worse than today." But we would find the next day was even worse. During this time a Bible verse that I had committed to memory gave me great hope and joy.

"If you be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye;
for the spirit of the glory and of God resteth upon you;
on their part evil is spoken of,
but on your part He is glorified."
I Peter 4:14"

I found myself saying, "Hallelujah!
Because I am suffering, Jesus is glorified!"

In America, the churches sing, "Let the congregation escape tribulation", but in China and Africa the tribulation has already arrived. This last year alone more than two hundred thousand Christians were martyred in Africa. Now things like that never get into the newspapers because they cause bad political relations. But I know. I have been there. We need to think about that when we sit down in our nice houses with our nice clothes to eat our steak dinners. Many, many members of the Body of Christ are being tortured to death at this very moment, yet we continue right on as though we are all going to escape the tribulation.

Several years ago I was in Africa in a nation where a new government had come into power. The first night I was there some of the Christians were commanded to come to the police station to register. When they arrived they were arrested and that same night they were executed. The next day the same thing happened with other Christians. The third day it was the same. All the Christians in the district were being systematically murdered.

The fourth day I was to speak in a little church. The people came, but they were filled with fear and tension. All during the service they were looking at each other, their eyes asking, "Will this one I am sitting beside be the next one killed? Will I be the next one?"

The room was hot and stuffy with insects that came through the screenless windows and swirled around the naked bulbs over the bare wooden benches. I told them a story out of my childhood.

"When I was a little girl, I said, I went to my father and said,
"Daddy, I am afraid that I will never be strong enough to be a martyr for Jesus Christ."
"Tell me," said Father,
"When you take a train trip to Amsterdam, when do I give you the money for the ticket?"
"Three weeks before?"
"No Daddy, you give me the money for the ticket just before we get on the train."
"That's is right," my father said,"and so it is with God's strength."
"Our Father in heaven knows when you need the strength to be a martyr for Jesus Christ."
"He will supply all you need just in time."
My African friends were nodding and smiling.
Suddenly a spirit of joy descended upon that church and the people began singing,
" In the sweet, by and by,
we shall meet on that beautiful shore."

Later that week, half the congregation of that church was executed.

I heard later that the other half was killed some months ago.

But I must tell you something. I was so happy that the Lord used me to encourage these people, for unlike many of their leaders, I had the word of God. I had been to the Bible and discovered that Jesus said He had not only overcome the world, but to all those who remained faithful to the end, He would give a crown of life.

How can we get ready for the persecution?

First we need to feed on the Word of God, digest it, make it a part of our being. This will mean disciplined Bible study each day as we not only memorize long passages of scripture, but put the principles to work in our lives.
Next we need to develop a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Not just the Jesus of yesterday, the Jesus of History,
but the life-changing Jesus of today who is still alive
and sitting at the right hand of God.

We must be filled with the Holy Spirit. This is no optional command of the Bible, it is absolutely necessary. Those earthly disciples could never have stood up under the persecution of the Jews and Romans had they not waited for Pentecost. Each of us needs our own personal Pentecost, the baptism of the Holy Spirit. We will never be able to stand in the tribulation without it.
In the coming persecution we must be ready to help each other and encourage each other.

But we must not wait until the tribulation comes before starting.
The fruit of the Spirit should be the dominant force of every Christian's life.
Many are fearful of the coming tribulation, they want to run. I, too, am a little bit afraid when I think that after all my eighty years, including the horrible Nazi concentration camp, that I might have to go through the tribulation also.
But then I read the Bible and I am glad.

When I am weak, then I shall be strong, the Bible says. Betsy and I were prisoners for the Lord, we were so weak, but we got power because the Holy Spirit was on us. That mighty inner strengthening of the Holy Spirit helped us through. No, you will not be strong in yourself when the tribulation comes. Rather, you will be strong in the power of Him who will not forsake you. For seventy-six years I have known the Lord Jesus and not once has He ever left me, or let me down.

"Though He shall slay me, yet will I trust Him." Job 13:15
for I know that to all who overcome,
He shall give the crown of life.
Hallelujah!"
- Corrie Ten Boom - 1974
http://filesfromtoni.blogspot.com/2010/07/corrie-ten-boom-warns-against-pre.html
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