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How to know if a christian has fallen away?

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Author Topic: How to know if a christian has fallen away?  (Read 1115 times)
Phord
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« on: March 03, 2013, 12:03:37 am »

Okay the title of thhis post is also the subject. I have periodically over time searched this topic online when i start doubting myself every once in a while.

The reason i think this is because there has been a lot of sin in the last 3 years or so and some of it somewhat wilful, or at least knowing not to do it, but getting trapped in sin. Much of the sin i cried over and was very heartbroken over, and at this point in my life have been repented of it, but the real reason I am concerned is because,

I have had these demonic attacks since 2010 where i either hear demons or even Satan himself laughhing at me, saying things like they were going to kill me, im worthless, even to the point now that EITHER they are influcing my thought patterns or reading my mind, because its like they know what or close to what i am thinking.

I need some help, scripture, advice or admonishment, help. I have cleaned up my life as best i can, repented, prayyed and fasted, commanded them to leave in the name of Jesus and reb
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Phord
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« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2013, 12:13:39 am »

rebuked them in Jesus name, and even tried to use scripture against them, however they just will not leave. A few times it seems like they have, but for the most part they will not. while using phone it will be hard to post scripture, but i will post book chapter and verse if possible on this issue.

The first is hebrews : 6;4-6 and also I was thinking about in the old testament about how Saul was troubled by an evil spirit from the Lord, because of his sins, and also the Holy Spirit departed from Saul! as well.

Now i am what you would call vexed (tormented) by these things. Because vexing means torment in Noah Websters 1828 dictionary.

I have not talked about this much, because most people would label me a nut for saying i hear voices, but they are demonic and i know who they are from and what is attacking me. They just will not leave. I am going to try a long fast Lord willing coming up and see if it helps. dont know what i will do if it wont. there voices arent like aduible but more in my thoughts
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Phord
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« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2013, 12:24:49 am »

So my thought process is now have i fallen away, and the Lord is alowing them to torment? The problem is I have witnessed to people in The Holy Spirit since these attacks began, and shown fruit of the Spirit, and believe i am saved and have the witness in myself as 1 John says.

I would like if everyone could weign in on this even Mark if he has time, because I need as much input to this as possible.

I have tried looking this subject online, but get different awnsers at diifferent sites, and while scripture is our primary tool and rulebook being a baby Christian doesnt help matters.

Maybe I have brain cancer or something and just dont know it.

an example of a thought they threw at me just now: your dead you little punk, laughing, then "worthless" also now they just called me "****" as they have done many times in past.

it just goes on and on. while its not like constant (now they just said "yes it is" is another example of what they say) I do struggle with it throught day. sometimes its more
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Phord
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« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2013, 12:44:02 am »

I just dont understand it and the torment I suffer, I have never heard of any other christian suffering like this. I thought perhaps that maybe its just tribulation, suffering, and torment. (here is an example of them reading my mind: as i was writing that out above they said "it is" and than laughed real loud about it) but i am not so sure its just tribulation. I do not want to hear these things, and have had enough of them. I just want free, I know Scott has had demonic attacks, but nothing like this.

Mark or Kilika have you ever heard of an attack like this, and on a christian? I know the devil does walk about as a roaring lying seeking whom he may devour, as 1 Peter says. I want to know can they read our minds, or do they have the technology to do so now. I thought only the Lord Jesus Christ, God, could know all our thoughts and our hearts?     
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tennis shoe
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« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2013, 12:51:39 am »

You haven't fallen. That's a lie.

Seen this yet?

http://www.apostasynow.com/wots/Contents.html

This can help to identify ground. It’s a search and destroy mission assisted by the Holy Spirit. If there’s anything in your past that comes up that you agreed with, no matter how seemingly insignificant, then renounce, reject, understand that you are forgiven, and ask God to fill any gaps inside.

You are describing something that I had to go through before. I ended up battling my own mind to bring it under subjection to Christ.

This helped immensely:

James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Note the order. FIRST submit, THEN resist. I had to offer up a lot of thoughts to Jesus repeatedly. I also had to command my thoughts to be in subjection to Christ.
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tennis shoe
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« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2013, 01:06:31 am »

People that have had ancestors that practiced occult rituals or people that have experimented with occultic stuff typically have this problem. I don’t know about my ancestors but prayed that God would cut me off from that. I was guilty of participating in occultic practices though. That is what gave them ground to be literally in my life.

The good news is that Jesus Christ is in a position of authority over all of that. And if you have truly given your life to Him, then ownership of your soul has transferred. These entities are going to have to talk with the owner about their occupation. And I'm pretty sure I know what He's going to tell them.
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tennis shoe
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« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2013, 01:29:55 am »

Phil 1:6  Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Rom 8:16  The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Rom 8:39  Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

1 Cor 6:17  But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

Do you know who you are in Him, Phord? He has translated you out of the world. You are no longer subject to the spiritual forces of wickedness. Neither the world, nor the devil, nor demons have any say as to who Phord is. God says who Phord is.
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Phord
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« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2013, 01:33:39 am »

Thank you tennis shoe for the information.

concerning your second post I do want to say when i was about 10-12 years old i did mess with a "Ouuja Board" and now looking back it was only a few short years later that I started going down a worse path from about 13 until I got saved shortly before I turned 17, and so thats one thing, but i have already confessed that out, along with a seance I did once, along with some witchcraft, while it wasnt like fullblown witchcraft it was nonetheless.

those are just a few of the things. I also have cut off family as well, and prayed about that too.

A lot of family on my dads side are Roman Catholics because a lot of Irish runs in our family, scottish and german too. English on mothers side.

anyhow I also have comitted some sexual sins, and while I wont go into graphic details is it possible that could do it or any defilement?

I have confessed those as well, i have confessed about everything I can think of up to this point in my life, and confessed these a wh
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Phord
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« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2013, 01:46:59 am »

while back*

Thank you for the scriptures those were really comforting.

I am not entirely sure what is giving them legal grounds at this point. It all started back in 2010 when I got introduced by a friend to this guy who I found out was into the hebrew rootss, and messianic movement. I didnt get real into thank the Lord and he kept me from going into it too much, but for about a week or so I did start using the names "Yahweh" and "Yeshua" because I thought they were corrrect, but even while I was using names I didnt feel right, and eventually stopped and never used names again, and quickly repented of it. I only use the name of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ now, our God.

I also confessed that out, but shortly after whole meeting with this guy as well as using names attacks came a few short weeks later.
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tennis shoe
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« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2013, 02:20:04 am »

Sometimes we do things that we think are no big deal. When I was a child, I had a fortune-telling game that turned out to be numerology. Hadn't thought about it in years. I paid attention to horoscopes, and they influenced my life. I had a “magic 8 ball”. When I was in a foreign country, I participated in a religious ceremony thinking that I was just being culturally aware. In God’s eyes, this was a really big deal. I was actually worshipping another god.

If you’re not sure what’s wrong then ask the Holy Spirit to point it out to you. I guarantee He will not let you down.

I ended up going through all of my personal possessions to see if there was anything that displeased Him. Some things I owned needed to be destroyed. Books, pictures, jewelry, games, trinkets, and curios.

If you allowed anyone to pray for you or lay hands on you, then you can declare that null and void in Jesus’ name. Just speak it out. If God has revealed something harmful about that to you, then yeah, turn away from it.

When I mentioned ancestors, I meant to say that He cut me off spiritually from any bloodline curses. I still love my family.

James 4:8  Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you.

Stay tight with Jesus. He’s the one that can do the work in you, if that’s what you want. But you will get to participate in the process.

What I went through was one of the most personal, intimate, profound, and intense times that I have ever spent with the Lord.

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« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2013, 05:24:39 am »

Yes, I've heard of them, and witnessed them in people more than once. I've seen what I believe was a person possessed, more than once. The kind that threatens to get physical, though he never did, but he sure got all worked up. Even had one "turn and rend you" one night. Not everybody believes, and those who don't are subject to be all kinds of things. I have seen them cast out of a person, and have personally cast, actually it's the Holy Ghost that does it, more than one out in my ministry. God willing they will repent.

Phord, our peace of mind is in knowing that Jesus reigns supreme, and everything is subject to Him. YOU belong to Jesus now. YOU are bought with a price. YOU are precious to our Lord, and He will NOT let anything harm you. Period. While you may suffer tribulation in the flesh, we all do, that is not an indication of falling away, but rather what your doing has the attention of the enemy, they don't like what your doing, which is turning to Jesus for help. The enemy wants you to doubt Jesus and question your faith in Him. Sound familiar? Somebody played that exact game with Eve. YOU by your faith, are a son of God. YOU are untouchable brother. This is how, by the Holy Ghost in us, we are to escape evil.

"There is no fear in love..."

Those outside influences are causing doubt, but just remember that the Holy Ghost is in you by you belief, so who can be against you? No one.

"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." John 16:33 (KJB)

"And they were all amazed, insomuch that they questioned among themselves, saying, What thing is this? what new doctrine [is] this? for with authority commandeth he even the unclean spirits, and they do obey him." Mark 1:27 (KJB)
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Phord
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« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2013, 12:19:24 pm »

Thanks Tennis and Kilika it helps, but I am still trying to understand why they have dominion.

Another thing they plague me with is using scripture against, and so this makes it much more difficult to tell if the Holy Spirit is brringing it into rememberance. Or if its the enemy. Usually I can tell because its more peaceable and intreatable from the Holy Spirit, and also isnt like forced into my mind, but just brought to rememberance, but my mind is not my own at this point. its a batttleground contested for control and ownership.

I am starting to wonder if maybe like some witch, or something has cast a curse on me

because Scott has talked about this, and that they do cast them even on Christians.

So maybe thats why. I am not sure. Also yes my family is cut off spiritually, but also physically because I live so far away from them, and sometimes in myy case better to avoid them, but thats just my judgement, tennisshoe. I dont hate them, just avoid for pratical reasons, and with dad being dead
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Phord
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« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2013, 12:32:44 pm »

Also what about Saul having an evil spirit trouble him in old testament? I have heard some say Saul was lost, while others say he was saved.

I did send this issue to Scott a way while back to pray about, but they are still coming head on to attack me. They even try to do it while I am tryimg to read my bible, memorize scripture, or study scripture. Which I understand why they would.

Whats cuurious though is that they really dont attack me while I am praying. ??

I will still try to confess things out as much I can that I can remember...as for cursed items, well the house I am living in has others people stuff, albeit not a lot. Its my mothers so I have no right to destroy it, but she does have like 3 beatles albums and one of them is the one who has "Aliester Crowley" at the top of it. Not sure name of album, right now its stored in a tub in a spare bedroom, I might try to get her take it next time she comes down.

However I think its more than just that. Its something else I can not pin point.
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« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2013, 01:02:16 pm »

Can’t tell if it’s coming from Him or the enemy? Just ask.

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

Does the message lift you out of the pit or does it send you further into dead-end condemnation? When God disciplines me, it’s for a purpose. It leads to spiritual growth. When the devil torments me, it leads nowhere. It’s torment for the sake of torment.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Curse? Again, you can simply declare that null and void in Jesus’ name. Renounce, repent, turn away from those practices, declare those practices as vile. Ask God to fill in the gaps with what He has for you.

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Whats cuurious though is that they really dont attack me while I am praying. ??

Well, there you go. Looks like that’s the best line of defense. Just keep the line open with Him. For me, it’s just having a conversation. I can talk to Him about anything – no holds barred. Doesn’t matter how big or small the topic is. Length of prayer doesn’t matter. Time of day doesn’t matter.

This is one of the most powerful tools that a Christian has against wicked spiritual forces. The ability to communicate with the highest authority in the universe at any time, and any place.

Mt 28:20 …and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world….
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« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2013, 02:57:51 pm »

Eph 1:6  To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
Eph 1:7  In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Eph 1:8  Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
Eph 1:9  Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
Eph 1:10  That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
Eph 1:11  In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Eph 1:12  That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
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« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2013, 03:06:43 pm »

James 1:12  Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

Psalms 6:2  Have mercy upon me, O LORD; for I am weak: O LORD, heal me; for my bones are vexed.
Psa 6:3  My soul is also sore vexed: but thou, O LORD, how long?
Psa 6:4  Return, O LORD, deliver my soul: oh save me for thy mercies' sake.
Psa 6:5  For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
Psa 6:6  I am weary with my groaning; all the night make I my bed to swim; I water my couch with my tears.
Psa 6:7  Mine eye is consumed because of grief; it waxeth old because of all mine enemies.
Psa 6:8  Depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity; for the LORD hath heard the voice of my weeping.
Psa 6:9  The LORD hath heard my supplication; the LORD will receive my prayer.
Psa 6:10  Let all mine enemies be ashamed and sore vexed: let them return and be ashamed suddenly.
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« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2013, 03:13:42 pm »

And speaking of falling away...

2Tim 4:10  For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia.

Notice the TENSE of what the text is saying - PAST tense...HAVING LOVED.

Yeah, the more I meditate on this verse, the more it makes me think that Demas was NEVER saved or in the faith to BEGIN with. It wasn't like he got saved and was strong in faith while participating in the ministry for so long, then all of a sudden changed his mind. I'm not 100% sure, but does anyone else think so too that Demas was never in the faith to begin with?

2Cor 11:25  Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep;
2Co 11:26  In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren;
2Co 11:27  In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness.


The passage also makes me think Demas was a "false brethren" to begin with. Alot like the modern-day "church" where potentially a majority of the pews aren't even saved, including the pastors on the pulpits.
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« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2013, 02:01:06 am »

Okay Phord, let me put it a bit...more frankly.

If it be that the Spirit is in you, you need to stop the whining and get your house in order brother! Stop that silliness of worrying about some stupid curses and such. That is superstitious junk that CANNOT affect a believer. I'll show you verse after verse if need be, but scripture says..."nothing shall by any means hurt you."

If God has given you of His Spirit, how in the world would it be possible for anything to affect you? It's not possible. But you have to believe it and trust God, and quit this business of worrying about what the enemy has no power to do on God's people.

And I'm going to say this one time. Stop listening to so-called "preachers", Scott or otherwise. You apparently are not grounded and settled enough to go there and know spiritually how to handle it. I don't mean that to put you down, I mean it to offer you a way to avoid this nonsense. You obviously are still very young in the Word, so stay in the Word and trust God to do as He promised.

Saul of the Old Testament? Seriously? Why are you stressing about him? He's OT, and before the Holy Ghost was given. Totally different times and conditions.

As for witches, I know a thing or two about witches, and I can tell you they are NOT all that! They can repent and believe the gospel just like any other. Seen it happen personally.

As for study and such. Relax. Too much study is a weariness to the flesh, and can cause a person to "burn out".

"Hast thou found honey..."

"There is no fear in love..."
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« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2013, 02:40:50 pm »

Phord,

How's it going? Are you doing OK? Just wondering if things have gotten any better for you?
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« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2013, 10:11:35 pm »

Luk 15:12  And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living.
Luk 15:13  And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.
Luk 15:14  And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want.
Luk 15:15  And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.
Luk 15:16  And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him.
Luk 15:17  And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
Luk 15:18  I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
Luk 15:19  And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
Luk 15:20  And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
Luk 15:21  And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.
Luk 15:22  But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
Luk 15:23  And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:
Luk 15:24  For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
Luk 15:25  Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard musick and dancing.
Luk 15:26  And he called one of the servants, and asked what these things meant.
Luk 15:27  And he said unto him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound.
Luk 15:28  And he was angry, and would not go in: therefore came his father out, and intreated him.
Luk 15:29  And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends:
Luk 15:30  But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf.
Luk 15:31  And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.
Luk 15:32  It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.
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