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New Hampshire district tells mom she can no longer pray on school's steps

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Author Topic: New Hampshire district tells mom she can no longer pray on school's steps  (Read 1443 times)
McChristian
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« on: August 11, 2013, 01:59:25 pm »

CONCORD, N.H. –  The longstanding argument over school prayer is being tested in New Hampshire, where a school district has told a mother she can no longer pray on the steps of her children's high school.

For two years, Lizarda Urena of Concord had been praying near Concord High School for the protection of the students. In February, she started praying on the school's steps for about 15 minutes every day after police responded to a report of bullets found in a school toilet. She held a Bible and recited passages as students passed by.

Last month, after the district got questions and complaints, including one from the Madison, Wis.-based Freedom From Religion Foundation, the principal told her she could no longer pray on campus.

The Concord Monitor reported the Alliance Defending Freedom, a Scottsdale, Ariz.-based conservative Christian group that advocates for religious rights, is providing legal services to Urena.

Matthew Sharp, the group's general counsel, says Urena's speech is protected under the First Amendment. He said the foundation's complaint that the prayers violate separation of church and state is "blatantly false."

John Teague, the school district's attorney, said the decision to ask Urena to stop wasn't driven by the foundation's complaint. He said the school had already received inquiries from the community and had decided the action would no longer be allowed.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/08/11/new-hampshire-district-tells-mom-can-no-longer-pray-on-school-steps/?test=latestnews#ixzz2bgkXAAQA
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Kilika
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« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2013, 04:39:40 am »

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Matthew Sharp, the group's general counsel, says Urena's speech is protected under the First Amendment. He said the foundation's complaint that the prayers violate separation of church and state is "blatantly false."

I'm getting really tired of these fake Christians insisting their rights under the Constitution are being violated.

You either worship God or not. Can't do both. You either follow the Word of God, or the Constitution, but you cannot have both.

Besides, no, her rights of free speech are not protected under the 1st Amendment when on government property. Sorry. Doesn't work that way. The only right you have in free speech on a public school property is to "preach" the government line.

There is absolutely no rights to promote a religion on public government property. Government is secular by design for a reason.

THIS reason actually, because they knew full well there would be some people who would insist on their form of religion be accepted, pushing aside any other competing religions, so to make it as fair as possible for all citizens, they decided there would be no recognition or promotion of any religions when it comes to government.

And yet churchianity continues to force their views on the public, insisting their rights not be violated. Whatever!

Personally, I believe this is about wolves in sheep's clothing on purpose, with the intent to make Christians look bad.
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« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2013, 10:35:29 am »

I'm getting really tired of these fake Christians insisting their rights under the Constitution are being violated.

You either worship God or not. Can't do both. You either follow the Word of God, or the Constitution, but you cannot have both.

Besides, no, her rights of free speech are not protected under the 1st Amendment when on government property. Sorry. Doesn't work that way. The only right you have in free speech on a public school property is to "preach" the government line.

There is absolutely no rights to promote a religion on public government property. Government is secular by design for a reason.

THIS reason actually, because they knew full well there would be some people who would insist on their form of religion be accepted, pushing aside any other competing religions, so to make it as fair as possible for all citizens, they decided there would be no recognition or promotion of any religions when it comes to government.

And yet churchianity continues to force their views on the public, insisting their rights not be violated. Whatever!

Personally, I believe this is about wolves in sheep's clothing on purpose, with the intent to make Christians look bad.

And she's praying publicly where everyone sees here, which Jesus says not to - on the contrary, Jesus says to go to your room, close the door, and do so in private.
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McChristian
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« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2013, 10:36:54 am »

And she's praying publicly where everyone sees here, which Jesus says not to - on the contrary, Jesus says to go to your room, close the door, and do so in private.

More or less, I'm posting the articles. I keep my opinions out of them - you've got a point, however.
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Mark
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« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2013, 11:35:03 am »

She should probably pray quitley, not making a specatacle out of it. BUT she does have the right to pray where ever she wants. And this if her reason is valid would fall under precatory prayer.

Now the Government is NOT secular by design. They cannot make a LAW for or against a religion. The constitution says nothing about being secular in nature. In the Constitution they do recognize Jesus as Lord.
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Kilika
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« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2013, 03:07:28 pm »

She should probably pray quitley, not making a specatacle out of it. BUT she does have the right to pray where ever she wants. And this if her reason is valid would fall under precatory prayer.

Now the Government is NOT secular by design. They cannot make a LAW for or against a religion. The constitution says nothing about being secular in nature. In the Constitution they do recognize Jesus as Lord.

"precatory"?

Quote
prec·a·to·ry 
/ˈprekəˌtôrē/
Adjective

    Of, relating to, or expressing a wish or request.
    (in a will) Expressing a wish or intention of the testator.

Synonyms
pleading - petitionary

Hmm, where does that come from? I've never heard of "precatory praying".

Remind me where Jesus is mentioned in the Constitution. Out of all the times I've read that document, I fail to remember any mention of Jesus by name.

The phrase, "year of our Lord", does not mean they are talking about Jesus. There are many "lords" that the world worships, and scripture clearly states that the world does not worship or glorify Jesus.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/secular

Quote
1
a : of or relating to the worldly or temporal <secular concerns>
b : not overtly or specifically religious <secular music>
c : not ecclesiastical or clerical <secular courts> <secular landowners>
2
: not bound by monastic vows or rules; specifically : of, relating to, or forming clergy not belonging to a religious order or congregation <a secular priest>
3
a : occurring once in an age or a century
b : existing or continuing through ages or centuries
c : of or relating to a long term of indefinite duration <secular inflation>

By definition, yes, the Constitution is in fact a secular document, designed to protect to an extent a person's right to hold religious views, so long as it does not violate the terms of the Constitution. By design, if you allow one religious exception, you must allow all religions equal access, due to anti-discrimination laws. It's a two-edged legal issue.

Your religious beliefs have limited protection, yes, under free speech and government not being allowed to show preference in religion so as to not discriminate, but they also cannot show favor to one religion before any others, as that's discrimination also.

The design is stop certain groups from taking control based on religious views and turning government to favor that one group's beliefs by inserting into office and jobs people that hold the same religious beliefs, which is by definition, at the least favoritism, if not outright discrimination at the expense of the people's government. But this is exactly how Islam is wiggling into governments, crying discrimination, that their beliefs must be recognized and not discriminated against.

Personally, I think there should be zero involvement by government in religious issues, other than to protect a person's right to have religious beliefs. They should not even have "chaplains" or religious buildings for "services" in the military. If a person wants to exercise their beliefs, they are free to do so, outside of their government jobs.

If that causes a conflict, then I guess the person needs to decided whom they will serve! Caesar or God.

You can't have it both ways, though churchianity is sure trying.

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Mark
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« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2013, 03:23:08 pm »

Imprecatory Prayer – Psalm 64 – Gods Judgment on Wickedness – A Christians ‘Door of Hope’

http://www.contendingfortruth.com/?p=1160

Imprecatory, sorry.

Quote
The phrase, "year of our Lord", does not mean they are talking about Jesus. There are many "lords" that the world worships, and scripture clearly states that the world does not worship or glorify Jesus

Yes it does. That is only ever used in reference to the birth of Jesus, and no one else. Our entire calandar system is based upon it, so when the Constitution of the United States says

Quote
Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth
Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven

and of the Independence of the United States of America the Twelfth. In Witness whereof
We have hereunto subscribed our Names.

It is strictly in reference to the Birth of JESUS CHRIST and recognizes him as LORD.  Wink
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Kilika
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« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2013, 05:10:23 pm »

I'll address the prayer thing after I listen to the audio, but I must say I need to because I'm not seeing the connection with Psalm 64 based on the definition I posted.

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Yes it does. That is only ever used in reference to the birth of Jesus, and no one else. Our entire calandar system is based upon it, so when the Constitution of the United States says

So are you one of those that actually believes the Constitution is a Christian-based document? It is NOT Christian! Nothing about it is Christian. It was written and promoted by unbelieving men that were intent on complaining about their treatment by King George, so they in their lack of contentment and unbelief, set off to build their own country in the New World, and so they did, all the while being managed by people like the Freemasons, and various churchianity groups of the day, being prodded by men Like Thomas Jefferson, a theist, and who was no Christian.

Raising a weapon on your fellow man is not Christian, and is not of faith. Those men only had faith in their own actions, at the barrel of a gun and the point of a sword.

Instead of running off to create some new world, they instead should have repented of their lack of faith in God to deal with the wicked British empire. God has dealt with every empire previously to protect his own, so why did they think He wouldn't save them from the British King? No faith in Jesus.

I believe that a real believer in Jesus will say the name Jesus, but His name is nowhere in that document of men, so that to me shows they compromised their faith in trying to appease those that don't believe in Jesus.

If they were real Christians, they would have made a constitution that only protected faith in Jesus. Actually, real believers know we don't need any constitution, as we already have one in His Word.

But they didn't use His name did they? It's a subtle lie they pushed on the public, claiming to be righteous men allowing for "religious freedoms", when in fact their deeds were evil in making concessions for the wicked in the "freedom of religion" clause.

The doctrine of Jesus Christ is that the unbelieving are to be rebuked and exhorted to repent, and if they refuse, which prophecy says they will refuse to the bitter end, then we are to reject them, and have no company with them.

Yet the Constitution allows for the welcoming of all religions, protecting their "right" to be unbelieving heathens, in complete opposition to sound doctrine.

"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Acts 4:12 (KJB)

"For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;" 1 Timothy 2:5 (KJB)
« Last Edit: August 12, 2013, 05:12:43 pm by Kilika » Report Spam   Logged
Kilika
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« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2013, 05:28:21 pm »

I didn't realize there is a pdf, so I'm looking it over, and I found this...

Quote
Comment: It is apparent that Solomon's prayer embodied humility before the Lord and that his heart was pure before the Lord in the things that he asked for. Now the Lord we serve has not changed as the Scripture state in Malachi 3:6: "For I am the LORD, I change not..."As far as individuals go only Solomon and Jesus Christ are ever mentioned in conjunction with 'pleasing' the Lord.

Sorry, Scott is mistaken...

5   By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
6   But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Hebrews 11:5,6 (KJB)
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Kilika
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« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2013, 05:40:26 pm »

Okay, so I went through his pdf.

My initial reaction was, Huh? When is he going to get to the point of explaining what this "imprecatory prayer" thing is? He never did. All he does is toss out a bunch of Old Testament prayers and verses, but never makes the connection to the phrase.

It's also curious how he focuses on OT verses, but really doesn't mention at all how Jesus tells us to pray in Matthew. Not one mention of the "Lord's Prayer".

I also notice how he spends all kinds of time listing Old Testament verses that talk of fear. Why? Is he trying to scare people into his way of interpretation?

"There is no fear in love..."

All I can say really is that "sermon" is confusion. It makes no sense.

Thank you Jesus for His Word.
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« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2013, 05:58:40 pm »

There's also a movement going on now, lead by David Barton and Glenn Beck, where they're going around saying how our founding fathers were Christians. And they're doing this b/c they're trying to get the (modern-day)churches to be POLITICALLY ACTIVE(by deceiving them into thinking they can bring good morals back to this country, and hence bringing this country back to its 1776 roots).

What Barton does is ONLY show SOME of the things these founding fathers say, but will NEVER show the un-Christian statements they have said(and this has been exposed).

Ultimately, as Christians, we should be keeping our eyes focused on our Lord Jesus Christ, his gift of his salvation he gave to us for belief in his name and what he did on the cross, and his imminent return.

As for imprecatory prayer - I'm still studying to see what this is. But one thing is for sure - Jesus keeps his promises to us. Smiley
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Kilika
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« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2013, 06:10:57 pm »

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As for imprecatory prayer - I'm still studying to see what this is. But one thing is for sure - Jesus keeps his promises to us. Smiley

Yes Jesus does!

As for "imprecatory prayer"? Sounds like stone-cold lifeless churchianity propaganda.

Seriously, where do these people get this stuff? Seminary, of course.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2013, 03:58:14 am »

So are you one of those that actually believes the Constitution is a Christian-based document?

nope not at all. Its just that the way that it is written, it does acknowledge Jesus as Lord.
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« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2013, 04:02:21 am »

The way i understood Imprecatory prayer was as a form of offensive prayer. Like a witch moves into your neighborhood. So you pray against the things she is doing. Or you go to an abortion facility and you pray against what they are doing.

So the woman in the story she is going to the school, and praying for nothing to happen, because bullets were found there. So shes kind of taking the offensive before something bad happens. Again she shouldn't make such a public spectacle out of it, but she has every right to do it.
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Kilika
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« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2013, 04:19:00 pm »

nope not at all. Its just that the way that it is written, it does acknowledge Jesus as Lord.

I agree it does use the word "Lord", and when using that word in that fashion, yes, it typically means the person is referring to Jesus in the bible. but that is as far as I'll go, considering the people that wrote the thing and who they were.

History has shown, regardless of what the Constitution says, the "founding fathers" were not Christian. Were there ANY born-again believers that signed it? I highly doubt it. I do however think that those who were proclaiming that they were Christian, were nothing more than churchianity minions.

Consider why many of them came to the "New World". It was because of oppression by the crown, politically, and the Church of England theologically.

Especially the Church of England, who is responsible for the death of some of my relatives in Scotland when they forced their Catholic heresy on the Scots. Some of them fled to America, leaving behind their Scottish royal heritage and settled in the Appalachian Mountains in the 16-1700's.

(Look up "Wedderburn Castle" and "Hume(Home) Castle" and those family's history in Scotland. Both belonged to ancestors of mine. It's actually an interesting read to see how England forced their way on Scotland.)
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« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2013, 04:35:53 pm »

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Especially the Church of England, who is responsible for the death of some of my relatives in Scotland when they forced their Catholic heresy on the Scots. Some of them fled to America, leaving behind their Scottish royal heritage and settled in the Appalachian Mountains in the 16-1700's.

Thats my family, im of the "bloody crossing" clan. Direct descendent.  Grin
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Kilika
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« Reply #16 on: August 13, 2013, 05:38:05 pm »

The William Wallace line comes from my grandmother's side (Wallace, Hume, Caldwell and a couple others) , while on my grandfather's side my surname I haven't been able to verify past 1800 birth date when a great grandfather died apparently in the Civil War in 1864 as an Infantry Private. It gets real tough determining if you have the right person when no middle name is reported and no spouse/children names. Military records aren't much help usually since they too had a bad habit of reporting names with no middle initial. Once I started going through all the same names and none of them have much to set them apart, that search direction shut down quick.
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« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2015, 09:14:34 pm »

The way i understood Imprecatory prayer was as a form of offensive prayer. Like a witch moves into your neighborhood. So you pray against the things she is doing. Or you go to an abortion facility and you pray against what they are doing.

So the woman in the story she is going to the school, and praying for nothing to happen, because bullets were found there. So shes kind of taking the offensive before something bad happens. Again she shouldn't make such a public spectacle out of it, but she has every right to do it.

Audio Inside Link: http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=104151837509
Imprecatory Prayer: Judgment for the Wicked, Vengeance for the Righteous
10/4/2015 (SUN)
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