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Sunday Schools - they are not what you think...

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Author Topic: Sunday Schools - they are not what you think...  (Read 1406 times)
Psalm 51:17
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« on: September 26, 2013, 12:20:03 pm »

Oddly, hard to find anything on the internet exposing Sunday Schools in the modern-day churches - but this wiki link has some good info...

Sunday school
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunday_Schools

A Sunday school, also known as a Sabbath School, is an institution designed to teach people, usually children, about Christianity, named such because most Christian churches meet on Sunday. Some Seventh-day Adventist communities hold their Sabbath Schools on Saturdays.

Sunday schools were first set up in the 1780s to provide education to working children on their one day off from the factory.[1] It was proposed by Robert Raikes, editor of the Gloucester Journal in an article in his Journal and supported by many clergymen. It aimed to teach the youngsters reading, writing and cyphering and a knowledge of the Bible.[2] It was 90 years, in 1870, before children could attend schools during the week.

In 1785 it was reported[by whom?] that 250,000 children were attending Sunday School. There were 5,000 in Manchester alone. By 1895, the 'Society for the Establishment and Promotion of Sunday Schools' had distributed 91,915 spelling books, 24,232 Testaments and 5,360 Bibles.[1] The Sunday School movement was cross-denominational, and through subscription built large buildings that could host public lectures as well as classrooms. In the early days, adults would attend the same classes as the infants, as each were instructed in basic reading. In some towns the Methodists withdrew from the Large Sunday School and built their own. The Anglicans set up their own 'National' schools that would act as Sunday Schools and day schools.[1] These schools were the precursors to a national system of education.[2]

The role of the Sunday Schools changed with the Education Act 1870.[2] In the 1920s they promoted sports. It was common for teams to compete in a Sunday School League. They were social centres hosting amateur dramatics and concert parties.[1] By the 1960s, the term Sunday School could refer to the building and not to any education classes. By the 1970s even largest Sunday School at Stockport had been demolished. From then Sunday School became the generic name for many different types of religious education pursued on Sundays by various denominations.

England[edit source]

The first Sunday school may have been opened in 1751 in St. Mary's Church, Nottingham.[3] Another early start was made by Hannah Ball, a native of High Wycombe in Buckinghamshire, who founded a school there in 1769.[4] However, the founding of Sunday schools is more commonly associated with the work of Robert Raikes, editor of the Gloucester Journal, who saw the need to prevent children in the slums descending into crime.

In 18th century England, education was reserved for a minority and was not compulsory. The wealthy educated their children privately, i.e. at home, with a hired governess, or possibly tutors once they were older; boys of that class were often sent away to boarding school, hence these fee-based educational establishments were known, confusingly, as public schools. The town-based middle class may have sent their sons to grammar school; daughters were left to learn what they could from their mothers or from their father's library. The children of factory workers got no formal education, typically working alongside their parents six days a week, sometimes more than 13 hours a day.

In 1781, Raikes saw the plight of children living in the Gloucester slums. In the home of Mrs. Meredith, he opened the first school on Sunday, the only day these boys and girls living in the slums and working in the factories could attend. Using the Bible as their textbook, he taught them to read and write.[5]

Within four years over 250,000 children were attending schools on Sunday throughout England.[5] 1784 was an important year, with many new schools opening, including the interdenominational Stockport Sunday School, which financed and constructed a school for 5,000 scholars in 1805; in the late 19th century this was accepted as being the largest in the world. By 1831 it was reported that attendance at Sunday Schools had grown to 1.2 million.[5] Robert Raikes' schools were seen as the first schools of the English state system.[6]

The first Sunday school in London opened at Surrey Chapel under Rowland Hill. By 1831, Sunday schools in Great Britain were attended weekly by 1,250,000 children, approximately 25 percent of the population. They provided basic literacy education alongside religious instruction. In 1833, "for the unification and progress of the work of religious education among the young", the Unitarians founded their Sunday School Association, as "junior partner" to the British and Foreign Unitarian Association, with whom it eventually set up offices at Essex Hall in central London.[7]

The work of Sunday schools in the industrial cities was increasingly supplemented by ragged schools (charitable provision for the industrial poor), and eventually by publicly funded education under the late 19th century school boards. Sunday schools continued alongside such increasing educational provision, and new forms also developed such as the Socialist Sunday Schools movement which began in the United Kingdom in the late 19th century.

Ireland[edit source]

The Church of Ireland Sunday School Society was founded in 1809.[8] The Sabbath School Society of the Presbyterian Church in Ireland was founded in 1862.[9]

USA

The American Sunday School system was first begun by Samuel Slater in his textile mills in Pawtucket, Rhode Island, in the 1790s. Notable 20th century leaders in the American Sunday School movement include: Clarence Herbert Benson, Henrietta Mears, founder of Gospel Light, Gene A. Getz, Howard Hendricks, Lois E. LeBar, Lawrence O. Richards and Elmer Towns.[citation needed]

Philanthropist Lewis Miller was the inventor of the "Akron Plan" for Sunday schools, a building layout with a central assembly hall surrounded by small classrooms, conceived with Methodist minister John Heyl Vincent and architect Jacob Snyder.

John Heyl Vincent collaborating was baptist layman B.F. Jacobs devised a system to encourage Sunday school work, and a committee was established to provide the International Uniform Lesson Curriculum, also known as the "Uniform Lesson Plan". By 1800s, 80% of all new members were introduced to the church through Sunday school.[10]

In 1874, interested in improving the training of Sunday school teachers for the Uniform Lesson Plan, Miller and Vincent worked together again to found what is now the Chautauqua Institution on the shores of Chautauqua Lake, New York.

Form[edit source]

Sunday schools, contrary to the name, are virtually never recognized educational institutions; rather than offering formal grades or transcripts, Sunday schools simply attempt to offer meaningful instruction concerning Christian doctrine and keep little or no record of performance for any given week. Attendance is often tracked as a means of encouraging children to attend regularly, and awards are frequently given for reaching attendance milestones.[citation needed]

Historically Sunday Schools were held in the afternoons in various communities often staffed by workers from varying denominations. Beginning in the United States in the early 1930s and Canada in the 1940s the transition was made to Sunday mornings. Sunday school often takes the form of a one hour or longer Bible study which can occur before, during, or after a church service. While many Sunday schools are focused on providing instruction for children (especially those occurring during service times), adult Sunday school classes are also popular and widespread (see RCIA.) In some traditions, Sunday school is too strongly associated with children and alternate terms such as "Adult Electives" or "religious education" are used instead of "Adult Sunday school". Some churches only operate Sunday school for children concurrently with the adult worship service. In this case there is typically no adult Sunday school.[citation needed]

There are number of traditional children's hymns or "Sunday school songs", such as "The Wise Man Built His House Upon the Rock," "Jesus Bids Us Shine", and "Jesus Loves Me" that have frequently been used in Sunday school settings.[citation needed]

Today[edit source]

Today many different expressions of Sunday schools exist. They range from traditional methods of teaching, using small groups, Bible-based teaching, familiar songs etc. to the more contemporary. Sunday school is often part of a larger Christian Formation program in many churches.[citation needed]

Postal Sunday schools conduct religious education via correspondence for children in sparsely populated areas.[citation needed]

Some Roman Catholic churches operate Sunday schools.

In 1986 a new kind of Sunday school started out of a ministry of Bill Wilson in the inner city of Brooklyn, New York, called Sidewalk Sunday School. With little delivery trucks that can be converted to stages, project areas and parks are being served Sunday school programs. Metro Ministries is now in many major cities in the US and has branches in eight other countries.

Publishers[edit source]

In Great Britain an agency was formed called the Religious Tract Society which helped provide literature for the Sunday School. In the United States the American Sunday School Union was formed (headquartered in New York City) for the publication of literature. This group helped pioneer what became known as the International Sunday School Lessons. The Sunday School Times was another periodical they published for the use of Sunday schools.[11]

Teachers[edit source]

Sunday school teachers are usually lay people who are selected for their role in the church by a designated coordinator, board, or a committee. Normally, the selection is based on a perception of character and ability to teach the Bible rather than formal training in education. Some Sunday school teachers, however, do have a background in education as a result of their occupations. Some churches require Sunday school teachers and catechists to attend courses to ensure that they have a sufficient understanding of the faith and of the teaching process to educate others. Other churches allow volunteers to teach without training; a profession of faith and a desire to teach is all that is required in such cases.[citation needed]

It is also not uncommon for Roman Catholic priests or Protestant pastors (church ministers) to teach such classes themselves. Some well-known public figures who teach or have taught Sunday school include astronaut Ron Garan, comedian Stephen Colbert,[12] novelist John Grisham,[13] and former U.S. president Jimmy Carter.[14]


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« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2013, 12:54:38 pm »

FYI, Bryan said that it may be awhile till he puts out his YT video exposing the whole Sunday School movement(which is why for now, he's doing expository teaching on 1 Timothy 1). I'll admit I can't wait to hear what his research says.

Anyhow - this wiki link alone has provided a wealth of information. Some thoughts...

1) Apparently - the whole idea was started by an editor of a SECULAR newspaper. Amazing how much power these media outlets have in this world - no surprise as Satan is the "prince of the power of the air". When I read this part, it reminded me how a popular newspaper, Hurst, propelled "Amerca's evangelist" Billy Graham to fame. And we see it here with another apparently popular media outlet that got the whole leavened Sunday School movement off the ground. BUT, they're not to blame completely, as it's traditions of Churchianity that embraced it, a lot like they did Billy Graham.

2) If I'm reading this right, this Sunday School movement planted the seeds for the public school education system over the long haul? I couldn't believe what I read here.

3) Sunday schools promoted sports and sports leagues? This is rather odd, b/c the typical Churchianity pastor/leader would say how it's "idolatry" to watch football on Sundays, b/c we should be serving the Lord completely that day. Ultimately, they ended up becoming nothing more than social centers as they started promoting sports leagues, concert parties, etc.

4) Apparently, "philanthropists" have had their hands too in pushing the Sunday School agendas(guess it's no surprise the Rockefellers have been involved in Churchianity as well). It also seems like Methodist leaders have been involved quite a bit as well(as we all know, the Methodist denomination is very liberal).

FYI - did you know that George Lucas, who did "Star Wars", attended a Methodist Sunday School for years? Even the men who came up with "Superman" attended Sunday School. Just saying.

5) They talk about giving out awards - personally, when I was in Sunday School in the 1980's, everyone was given awards if they were able to memorize the NAMES of the books of the bible IN ORDER(ie-if we can name Genesis through let's say Deuteronomy in order, then we would get a sticker or something like that). It was all really nonsense, even though I went along with it.

6) Apparently, their "experimenting" with what they wanted to do with Sunday Schools went on long before Rick Warren, Bill Hybels, and the stuff Emergents are pushing - guess this is no surprise as the modern-day church considers Sunday Schools as their LIFEBLOOD(it seems like this seems to be their big marketing tool, and not necessary the pastor's sermon in the service).

7) Wasn't under the impression that the Roman Catholic Church has Sunday Schools(and this wiki link doesn't say anything about SS's origins being from the RCC, like a lot of Churchianity's traditions come from). So it looks like this is a rare traditions of men that didn't come from the RCC.

8 ) Throughout my years of going to Sunday School(but I haven't been to one in 7 years), and everyone I know that goes to SS - there's just been LOTS of these publications that come in from all over the place. I've always wondered where they came from, and it's been a big mystery too.

It's as if these Sunday School "teachers" just go through the motions teaching from them, without even searching through the scriptures to see if these things are so. I say this b/c a lot of what they say just never made sense, but en yet everyone(including myself) just blindly walked into a ditch without knowing it.

And these publications come from INTERNATIONAL publishers - I don't know, but whenever I see this word, it should make anyone think of GLOBALIZATION. A lot like the New International Version bible - notice the term INTERNATIONAL(and how that bible globalized churches of all denominations).

9) Interesting famous people who are known to teach Sunday School - John Grisham(who's first book, "A Time to Kill", centered around vigilante justice), Jimmy Carter(Nuff Said), Stephen Colbert(Yes - this same Jesus Christ blasphemer), just to name a few.

10) I dunno, but the roots of its origins sounds like "social justice" - they started the Sunday School movement to rescue children living in poverty? Uhm...aren't we supposed to seek God and his righteousness first, and all things shall be added unto us?


What does everyone else think? Like said - this wiki link alone has provided a wealth of information.
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« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2013, 12:59:26 pm »

I used to attend “Sunday school”. At first, a general topic would be presented where attendees were able to share and comment. This allowed the Spirit to move in people’s hearts.

Then, one day, the church BOARD decided that we needed curriculum. Pre-scripted “study guides” appeared. Then, an “approved” guy with papers and credentials was picked to lead the group. I held out for a while, hoping to be able to offer someone in the room some words that might encourage or comfort them with whatever they were dealing with. Or, conversely, I had hoped to gain some insight that I hadn’t yet thought of, weighing against scripture, of course. But, as time went on, there was more insistence on sticking rigidly to the script, to the point of just sitting there, reading out of the “study guide”, and answering the questions in the study guide with the approved responses. That’s when it became indoctrination.

I finally gave up and walked away. There was no longer life in those meetings.
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« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2013, 03:56:42 pm »

Here's more on Robert Raikes(the founder of the Sunday School movement)...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Raikes

Robert Raikes ("the Younger") (14 September 1736 – 5 April 1811) was an English philanthropist and Anglican layman, noted for his promotion of Sunday schools. Pre-dating state schooling and by 1831 schooling 1,250,000 children, they are seen as the first schools of the English state school system.

Raikes was born at Ladybellegate House, Gloucester, in 1736,[1] the eldest child of Mary Drew and Robert Raikes, a newspaper publisher. He was baptised on 24 September 1736 at St Mary de Crypt Church in Gloucester. On 23 December 1767 he married Anne Trigge, with whom he had three sons and seven daughters. Their oldest son Reverend Robert Napier Raikes had a son General Robert Napier Raikes of the Indian Army.

**Apparently, the Anglican church he was a member of believes in infant baptism.


Sunday schools[edit source]

Robert initiated the Sunday school movement. He inherited a publishing business from his father, becoming proprietor of the Gloucester Journal in 1757.

The movement started with a school for boys in the slums. Raikes had been involved with those incarcerated at the county Poor Law (part of the jail at that time) and saw that vice would be better prevented than cured. He saw schooling as the best intervention. The best available time was Sunday as the boys were often working in the factories the other six days. The best available teachers were lay people. The textbook was the Bible, and the originally intended curriculum started with learning to read and then progressed to the catechism.[2][3]

Raikes used the paper to publicise the schools and bore most of the cost in the early years. The movement began in July 1780 in the home of a Mrs Meredith. Only boys attended, and she heard the lessons of the older boys who coached the younger. Later, girls also attended. Within two years, several schools opened in and around Gloucester. He published an account on 3 November 1783 of Sunday schools in his paper, and later word of the work spread through the Gentleman's Magazine, and in 1784, a letter to the Arminian Magazine.

The original schedule for the schools, as written by Raikes was "The children were to come after ten in the morning, and stay till twelve; they were then to go home and return at one; and after reading a lesson, they were to be conducted to Church. After Church, they were to be employed in repeating the catechism till after five, and then dismissed, with an injunction to go home without making a noise."[4]

There were disputes about the movement in the early years. The schools were derisively called "Raikes' Ragged School". Criticisms raised included that it would weaken home-based religious education, that it might be a desecration of the Sabbath, and that Christians should not be employed on the Sabbath. Some leading ecclesiastics -- among them Bishop Samuel Horsley -- opposed them on the grounds that they might become subservient to to purposes of political propagandism.[5] "Sabbatarian disputes" in the 1790s led many Sunday schools to cease their teaching of writing. Notwithstanding all this, Adam Smith gave the movement his strongest commendation: "No plan has promised to effect a change of manners with equal ease and simplicity since the days of the Apostles."

By 1831, Sunday schools in Great Britain were teaching weekly 1,250,000 children, approximately 25 percent of the population. As these schools preceded the first state funding of schools for the general public, they are seen as the forerunners of the current English school system.

For a story-essay on Robert Raikes and his role in starting the Sunday School movement, see Nathaniel Hawthorne's "A Good Man's Miracle".
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« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2013, 05:16:48 pm »

Quote
**Apparently, the Anglican church he was a member of believes in infant baptism.

No real difference between them. "Anglican" is just the Church of England denomination of the RCC.
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« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2013, 06:08:40 pm »

Consider the source here(the ecumenical Christianity Today site), but nonetheless they add a bit more info, and confirm a lot of the history of this...

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ch/asktheexpert/whendidsundayschoolstart.html
When did Sunday Schools start?

For a long time, they were the only way working-class families could receive an education.


Answered by Timothy Larsen | posted 8/28/2008 08:14AM

It is important to realize that Sunday schools were originally literally schools: they were places were poor children could learn to read. The Sunday school movement began in Britain in the 1780s. The Industrial Revolution had resulted in many children spending all week long working in factories. Christian philanthropists wanted to free these children from a life of illiteracy. Well into the 19th century, working hours were long. The first modest legislative restrictions came in 1802. This resulted in limiting the number of hours a child could work per day to 12! This limit was not lowered again until 1844. Moreover, Saturday was part of the regular work week. Sunday, therefore, was the only available time for these children to gain some education.

The English Anglican evangelical Robert Raikes (1725-1811) was the key promoter of the movement. It soon spread to America as well. Denominations and non-denominational organizations caught the vision and energetically began to create Sunday schools. Within decades, the movement had become extremely popular. By the mid-19th century, Sunday school attendance was a near universal aspect of childhood. Even parents who did not regularly attend church themselves generally insisted that their children go to Sunday school. Working-class families were grateful for this opportunity to receive an education. They also looked forward to annual highlights such as prize days, parades, and picnics, which came to mark the calendars of their lives as much as more traditional seasonal holidays.

Religious education was, of course, always also a core component. The Bible was the textbook used for learning to read. Likewise, many children learned to write by copying out passages from the Scriptures. A basic catechism was also taught, as were spiritual practices such as prayer and hymn-singing. Inculcating Christian morality and virtues was another goal of the movement. Sunday school pupils often graduated to become Sunday school teachers, thereby gaining an experience of leadership not to be found elsewhere in their lives. Even some Marxist historians have credited 19th-century Sunday schools with empowering the working classes.

**"Leadership" is another Churchianity tradition I grew up with.

In both Britain and America, universal, compulsory state education was established by the 1870s. After that, reading and writing were learned on weekdays at school and the Sunday school curriculum was limited to religious education. Nevertheless, many parents continued to believe that regular Sunday school attendance was an essential component of childhood. The trend for permissive parenting in the 1960s, however, meant that a widespread culture of insisting that children go to Sunday school whether they want to or not (especially when the parents were not themselves going to church) was abandoned.
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« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2013, 06:16:23 pm »

^^

1) Interesting this coincided around the time of the Industrial Revolution - yet another Illuminati created Problem. Reaction. Solution. It seems like whenever these Illuminati created problems arise, ultimately churches end up getting targeted first and foremost. Look at N@zi Germany and how 90% of churches there became Apostate and blindly fell for Hitler's Romans 13 "blindly follow the government". And it's not like they target them by force - they will do so either by offering pottage or manipulate them by playing on their guilt.

2) I can account for what they said about how parents would make Sunday Schools a priority for their kids(even though they themselves won't go to church) - when I lived in Alabama in the late 70's, there was a Sunday Church church in town where they went by neighborhoods with buses to pick up children. I and my brother went there for a couple of years. I didn't think of it then, but in recent years(as I've gotten familiar with this 501c3 corrupt system), it makes me wonder where they get all of this money to not only own their buildings, but these BUSES and other transportation vehicles(which they seemed to have aplenty) as well.
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« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2013, 06:28:43 pm »

OK, this web site has a VERY PRO-Sunday School slant - but nonetheless confirms a lot of the history of it...

http://ministry-to-children.com/history-of-sunday-school/

A Brief History of Sunday School

October 12, 2009 by Jeri Tanner —7 Comments Print Print

For many of us, Sunday school is a deeply rooted tradition, although it is actually a rather modern institution. Have you ever wondered about the origins and history of Sunday school? If so, here are a few facts you may find interesting.

The idea of a “Sabbath school” for poor and uneducated children began in England in the late 18th century. Visionary evangelicals like Robert Raikes devised a plan to gather poor, uneducated working children into education classes on Sundays, the children’s only day off. Clean clothes and learning materials were provided, and instruction given in reading, writing, hygiene and good citizenship. The churches hoped that this effort would serve the dual purpose of bettering the future of society and curbing the rampant delinquency.  Though neither evangelism nor religious training were the expressed goals of the new schools, there was the hope that the morality taught, being based on the truths of Scripture, might bring about a transformation in the hearts of the children. And so the Sabbath or Sunday school was born.

By the early 1800’s, the goals of the Sunday schools were changing. Young, newly converted Presbyterians saw the Sunday School as an opportunity to teach the gospel and doctrine to children; in fact, many Sunday School leaders began to lobby for free public schools for the needy, so that they could concentrate on religious instruction. The regeneration and conversion of children now became the goal. As this focus grew, Sunday school students were often encouraged to memorize large portions of the Bible, earning prizes and incentives for doing so. This idea was dropped when it was realized that the students were more interested in the prizes than in God’s word!

In America, the first national Sunday School effort began in 1824; its stated purpose was to organize, evangelize and civilize. The focus was intentionally evangelical, and so within the next 100 years the Sunday School had become the primary outreach arm of the church. The Sunday School organization now expanded to include all ages. Sunday School became a way for unbelievers to be introduced to, and then assimilated into, the life of the church. By the late 1800’s, Sunday School was looked to as the main hope for church growth, a view that continued until the mid-twentieth century.

**So it wasn't exactly Rick Warren, Bill Hybles, Brian McLaren, and these other Postmodernists that came up with this nonsense...they're just BUILDING on it.

Sunday School attendance has seen a slow decline in the last 50 or so years. One factor generally agreed to be a reason for this is the shift away from evangelism and toward discipleship and fellowship over the last half century or so. Studies do indicate that where Sunday Schools are thriving and growing, church membership increases.

The idea of Sunday School as a primary opportunity for evangelism may be new to some of us. Is it possible that a return to that model could help revitalize our churches? Has Sunday School attendance declined in your church, or is it thriving? One thing is certain, much has changed since the idea of a Sunday school for the reform of unruly street children was first envisioned!

**Interesting...a lot of the stuff from Rob Bell, Warren, Hybels, Max Lucado, Beth Moore, etc are LARGELY hitting Sunday Schools, church "bible" studies, etc. No, I'm not saying they're the ones coming up with these ideas, but just looking at the BIG Picture, look at the leaven that is driving these church buildings. It's as if they are the "tongue" that is doing so...

James 3:4  Behold also the ships, which though they be so great, and are driven of fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small helm, whithersoever the governor listeth.
Jas 3:5  Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!
Jas 3:6  And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.

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« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2013, 06:38:40 pm »

http://allaboutbaptists.com/history_SundaySchool.html

It was an Englishman by the name of Robert Raikes who first conceived of the idea to teach underprivileged boys by establishing schools on Sunday since the children had to work during the week.  His intention was to teach them reading, writing and arithmetic.  Bible teaching was not a thought when he first got the idea.
   
Raikes opened his first school in the kitchen of a home in Gloucester, England, in July of 1780.  He hired a Mrs. Meredith to do the teaching.
   
It was a Baptist deacon named William Fox who introduced the idea of including the Bible in the Sunday schools of England.  Raikes agreed.  Thus, the first schools combined both secular and spiritual educations and did so quite effectively.
   
This was the birth of the Sunday School.   When Robert Raikes died in 1811, there were an estimated 400,000 people attending Sunday schools in Great Britain.
   
There were also several hundred Sunday schools in the United States. All emphasized Biblical instruction over reading and writing.   However, most taught secular subjects as a means of drawing children and young people to the Word of God. In fact, by 1820, Sunday school organizers began lobbying for extension of a system of free daily schools so that they would be free to teach religion alone on Sundays. 
   
Most denominations adopted the Sunday school. The movement continued to grow between 1827 and 1860 as the value of the Sunday school was discovered.
 
D. L. Moody was one of the outstanding Sunday school workers of the late 1800s. In less than one year Moody and his assistants organized schools in all 102 counties of Illinois.
   
**Not that I endorse Moody, but I haven't(at least yet) heard anything about him being a heretic. Although yes, a lot of the Churchianity folks seem to embrace him. So I guess this should be a red flag.

During the 20th century, Sunday school growth increased dramatically.  It became a standard ministry of almost every Christian denomination. Now including all ages, the movement prospered and became the major means whereby generations of Christians became solidly grounded in the Scriptures.  The first 60 years of the 20th century have been called the "Golden Age of American Sunday Schools."
   
The 1960s were a tremendous period of change.  Most Protestant denominations began to see a decline in their Sunday school attendances.  However, the Baptists were able to go forward with continued growth by changing the methodologies used to both promote and conduct the schools.
   
Jack Hyles, a Baptist pastor in Indiana, introduced the idea of churches purchasing used school busses to go out and pick up children so as to be brought in for Sunday school.  The church he pastored has seen attendances in excess of 100,000.  It is interesting to note that just a century before, D. L. Moody had used volunteer church members and their wagons to do the same thing.  Other pastors and churches saw the success that Hyles was experiencing with busses and determined to do the same thanks, in part, to Pastor Schools that he sponsored each year.  As a result, Baptist Sunday schools ignored the decline in the movement and saw their church attendendances sky rocket through the 60s and 70s.
   
**Like said in above post - I went to a SS church in Alabama that did the same thing in the 70's. As for Jack Hyles - he is a proven Apostate.

Although, the bus ministry has subsided over the last three decades, the Baptists have continued to see good success with their schools.  They have been very creative in introducing various teaching methods, which have increased the drawing power.  From large classes taught by a master teacher to small group classes led by a facilitator, they have learned to adapt to the needs of those who attend their schools, whether they be young children who are greeted by muppets on Sundays or well educated adults who are provided with the opportuity to dig deep into the Word of God.
 
Even though the movement has waned after 200 years of use, the Baptists see no end in sight.  Their Sunday schools continue to be generally strong and well attended.  For all they know, the movement should continue to be an effective means for teaching their members the Bible for another 200 years, if not more.
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« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2013, 06:45:53 pm »

^^ So ultimately, it seems like this whole Sunday School movement has turned the church into a place of business - wherever it goes, church attendance goes. If it goes down, then they have to find other means and ideas to build it back up.

Coincidence the same period this country has the most wicked President ever, who also happens to be a Marxist and Muslim(Obama), is also the same period we have the most wicked "Christian" leaders(Warren, Hybels, Lucado, Bell, etc - all of whom are pushing Theosophical New Age doctrines)?

Matthew 21:12  And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,
Mat 21:13  And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.

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« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2013, 06:54:37 pm »

Source: Encyclopedia

http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Sunday_school.aspx

Schools

Dictionary of American History |  2003 |  Copyright

SUNDAY SCHOOLS

SUNDAY SCHOOLS first appeared in American cities in the 1790s. Following the example of British reformers, American organizers hoped to provide basic literacy training to poor children and adults on their one free day. Typical of these schools were those begun in Philadelphia in 1791 by the First Day Society, a group of clerics and merchants who paid local schoolmasters to teach "persons of each sex and of any age … to read and write," using the Bible as the central text. By 1819 the last First Day school had closed, and by 1830 Sunday schools of this type had virtually disappeared from the American scene, although traces of their pattern remained visible for decades in "mission" Sunday schools found in impoverished urban neighborhoods, in rural areas lacking permanent churches, and among newly freed African Americans during Reconstruction. A new-style Sunday school arose in their place, taught by volunteer teachers (a majority of them women) and providing a specifically evangelical Protestant curriculum. By 1832, nearly 8 percent of free children were attending such schools; in Philadelphia alone, the figure was almost 30 percent.

Evangelical Sunday schools grew rapidly as Protestant clergy and lay people molded them into key elements in an institutional network designed to make the new nation Protestant. (Although some Catholic and Jewish congregations established Sunday schools, the institution itself never assumed the significance it acquired in Protestant religious education.) New ideas about children's needs and potential also fueled their growth, as did congregations' embrace of Sunday schools and the development of common schools in urban areas. Indeed, during the nineteenth century, Sunday schools and public schools grew in tandem, developing a complementary relationship.

Sunday school societies played important parts in the schools' proliferation. The American Sunday School Union, a cross-denominational national organization founded in Philadelphia in 1824, was the largest of these, publishing curricular materials and children's books and sponsoring missionaries to remote regions. Denominational agencies, such as the Methodist Episcopal Sunday School Union (1827) and the Sunday School Board of the African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church (1884), followed suit. After the Civil War, denominational interests came into increasing conflict with the American Sunday School Union, especially in the area of teacher training and lesson writing. Gradually, denominational organizations and teachers' conventions became the organizations of choice, and the American Sunday School Union's preeminence declined. It was at a national Sunday school teachers' convention in 1872 that delegates and publishers adopted plans for a systemof "uniform lessons," standardizing the Biblical texts studied each week but permitting each denomination to shape the lessons' contents. And the origins of the Chautauqua Movement idea can be traced to a Sunday school teachers' summer institute organized by the Methodist bishop John Heyl Vincent in 1873.

In the twentieth century, Sunday schools were primarily church institutions, recruiting the next generations of members. Although teaching remained volunteer labor performed mostly by women, the work of managing became professionalized, many congregations hired directors of religious education, and new agencies took on the tasks of multiplying the number of Sunday schools and shaping teachers' preparation.

By the turn of the twenty-first century, Sunday school attendance had declined overall. Nevertheless, Sunday schools remain a significant institutional tool for the religious training of succeeding generations, as many a child could testify.

**I think this right here explains why the Emergent/Postmodernism Church infiltrated these church buildings at the turn of the 21st Century - economy was getting bad after a decade of "prosperity", country got attacked, 2 wars being fought...then next thing we know Problem. Reaction. Solution. These Rick Warren-types emerge on the national stage being painted as the "saviors" of the church.

BIBLIOGRAPHY

Boylan, Anne M. Sunday School: The Formation of an American Institution, 1790–1880. New Haven, Conn.: Yale University Press, 1988.

McMillen, Sally G. To Raise Up the South: Sunday Schools in Black and White Churches, 1865–1915. Baton Rouge: Louisiana State University Press, 2001.

Seymour, Jack L. From Sunday School to Church School: Continuities in Protestant Church Education in the United States, 1860–1929. Washington, D.C.: University Press of America, 1982.
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« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2013, 09:17:56 pm »

Some more history(apparently, during the time of the MA Bay Colony Plymouth Pilgrims, they had some form of organized religion education)...

http://keyboardsforchrist.com/HistoryofSundayschool.html

The English Sunday school movement is usually associated with Robert Raikes of Gloucester (1735-1811), the founder of the Sunday School Union. From 1782 Raikes established classes, often on Saturdays as well as Sundays, for children of the poor who were in employment for the rest of the week. A century after the movement began, over 5 million children in England were attending these schools.

Before the advent of "Sunday Schools", the earliest mandate for education of children was passed in the Massachusetts Bay Colony in 1647. (1) Notably, a sizable portion of this education program was religious in nature. Some of the cultural/ religious motives behind this mandate to educate the children was a fear that "evil" doctrines, unorthodox knowledge and a general lack of knowledge of the (Biblical) scriptures prevailed, so it pressed the colonial government to " order that an elementary school be established for every town of 50 families." (CT followed in 1650) (2, 3)

In Europe the Dutch Reformed Church had been providing religious schooling for youth since 1618 in the Netherlands and elsewhere. (4) The Colonies did not have "Sunday School" for children for nearly a century after the Pilgrims landed and founded Plymouth.

As the New England Colonies grew and expanded into the frontier, new towns were created. With the formation of a town also automatically came the formation of an ecclesiastical society with a minister in place. In 1731 various folk were given permission to gather and worship together and from that gathering in 1733 at the geographic center of Plymouth County and on the county's highest point the church and town of Halifax was begun. Each spring some of the men of the church would assist the pastor in teaching the children the catechism ( 5) and this continued yearly into 1746 and further. On April 25, 1746, during the pastorate of Rev. John Cotton (1734-1754) a vote was taken to organize and teach the children of the town and form a Sunday School.

Sunday school societies played important parts in the schools' proliferation. The American Sunday School Union, a cross-denominational national organization founded in Philadelphia in 1824, was the largest of these, publishing curricular materials and children's books and sponsoring missionaries to remote regions. Denominational agencies, such as the Methodist Episcopal Sunday School Union (1827) and the Sunday School Board of the African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church (1884), followed suit. After the Civil War, denominational interests came into increasing conflict with the American Sunday School Union, especially in the area of teacher training and lesson writing. Gradually, denominational organizations and teachers' conventions became the organizations of choice, and the American Sunday School Union's preeminence declined. It was at a national Sunday school teachers' convention in 1872 that delegates and publishers adopted plans for a systemof "uniform lessons," standardizing the Biblical texts studied each week but permitting each denomination to shape the lessons' contents. And the origins of the Chautauqua Movement idea can be traced to a Sunday school teachers' summer institute organized by the Methodist bishop John Heyl Vincent in 1873.

In the twentieth century, Sunday schools were primarily church institutions, recruiting the next generations of members. Although teaching remained volunteer labor performed mostly by women, the work of managing became professionalized, many congregations hired directors of religious education, and new agencies took on the tasks of multiplying the number of Sunday schools and shaping teachers' preparation.

By the turn of the twenty-first century, Sunday school attendance had declined overall. Nevertheless, Sunday schools remain a significant institutional tool for the religious training of succeeding generations, as many a child could testify.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Training the next generations? I dunno, but it sounds like a New Age buzz-phrase. Something I would hear in secular institutions a lot...

Matthew 10:34  Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2013, 09:25:38 pm by BornAgain2 » Report Spam   Logged
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« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2013, 09:42:00 pm »

^^ From what I've read, the MA Bay Colony Plymouth Pilgrams did NOT believe that the prophecies of Matthew 24, 2nd The 2, Revelation, parts of Daniel, etc would take place at a future end times, 7 year period(aka the time of Jacob's trouble). But instead viewed the 2nd The 2/Rev 13 Antichrist as the Papacy, and that the prophecies of Revelation came to pass GRADUALLY over time(as interpreted symbolically), which is known as the Historicism eschatology.

No, they didn't do this Sunday School movement(at least not initially, and not for awhile), but nonetheless they were in some kind of organized religion/education prior to buying into the SS movement.

Pt being that through my experiences, the whole modern-day organized church system has this same Historicism eschatology attitude(with the difference being that they don't hold the Papacy as anything compared to the organized movement back then). Also, look at some of the "influential" bible "scholars" from way back like Charles Spurgeon, Matthew Henry and John Wesley - they too held to this Historicism eschatology belief(believing that the Papacy was the Antichrist). And they too held to a belief of organized religion.

To be honest, I've always wondered why end times prophecies were rarely ever talked about in these churches. And I'll admit too that 3 years ago, I wavered and doubted over the belief that they were future end times events b/c I was still yoking myself to this organized church system(as everyone here knows).

Scripture plainly warns about bringing ourselves back into bondage.

Galatians 4:9  But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?


FYI - Historicism came from the RCC.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicism_(Christian_eschatology)

Early historical interpretations[edit source]

Prophetic commentaries in the early church were often partial or incomplete, usually interpreting individual passages rather than entire books. The earliest complete commentary on the Book of Revelation, considered to be one of the earliest Historicist commentators, was carried out by Victorinus of Pettau around 300 AD.[6][7] An overview of the various prophetic expositions from the third century to the fifth centuries demonstrates that prophecies were uniformly interpreted within a Historicist framework by the Latin (later Catholic) writers.


Victorinus of Pettau
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victorinus_of_Pettau

Saint Victorinus of Pettau or of Poetovio (died 303 or 304) was a Catholic ecclesiastical writer who flourished about 270, and who was martyred during the persecutions of Emperor Diocletian. A Bishop of Poetovio (modern Ptuj in Slovenia; German: Pettau) in Pannonia, Victorinus is also known as Victorinus Petavionensis, Poetovionensis or Victorinus of Ptuj
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« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2013, 10:06:35 pm »

John Wesley's role with the Methodist Church(you have to scroll down just a bit, as it's a LONG text)...

http://www.archive.org/stream/historyofsundays00wardrich/historyofsundays00wardrich_djvu.txt

IN THE METHODIST EPISCOPAL CHURCH

' The origin in Methodism of these classes dates back to Wes-
ley's own experiences. In 1735, as a missionary in Georgia, Wes-
ley taught the children of Savannah on Sunday. In order to en-
courage the children who were too poor to have shoes to come he
went to the meetings barefoot himself. Later he visited Count
Zinzendorf at Herrnhut and learned of his more successful in-
struction of children and adults in classes not exceeding ten per-
sons
. These "classes" Zinzendorf had instituted after the revival
among the children in 1727. Over each class a teacher was placed
and the instruction was religious. This plan Wesley adopted for
his new church
.
6

For nearly thirty years before the Gloucester Sunday School
Movement
Wesley had been in the habit of meeting the children
in various places and giving them direct religious instruction
.
The following are extracts from his Journal :

Sunday, 11 [April, 1756]. — I met about a hundred children,
who are catechized publicly twice a week
. Thomas Walsh began
this some months ago ; and the fruit of it appears already. What
a pity that all our preachers in every place have not the zeal and
wisdom to follow his example !

Sunday, 30 [August, 1758]. — I began meeting the children
in the afternoon, though with little hopes of doing them good.
But I had not spoke long on our natural state before many of
them were in tears, and five or six so affected that they could not
refrain from crying aloud to God. When I began to pray their
cries increased, so that my voice was soon lost. I have seen no
such work among children for eighteen or nineteen years.

Saturday, 30 [May, 1772]. — I met a company of the most
lively children that I have seen for several years. One of them
repeated her hymn with such propriety, that I did not observe
one accent misplaced. Fair blossoms ! And if they be duly at-
tended, there may be good fruit !

Gatherings on Sunday for the purpose of religious instruc-
tion were even a more direct preparation of Methodism for the
Sunday School of 1780
.

The first illustration comes from the inner life of the Wesley



"Annual Report, for 1888, p. 10.
15



HISTORY OF THE SUNDAY SCHOOL MOVEMENT

family of nineteen children. It would be difficult to estimate the
influence of these early experiences upon the life and attitude of
John Wesley when he faced the question of religious education in
the churches he was organizing.

As their circumstances were narrow and confined, the educa-
tion of their progeny fell particularly upon themselves; and espe-
cially on Mrs. Wesley, who seems to have possessed every quali-
fication requisite for either a public or private teacher. 7

During her husband's absence [1711-1712] Mrs. Wesley
felt it her duty to pay more particular attention to her children,
especially on the Lord's Day in the evening, as there was then no
service in the afternoon at the Church. She read prayers to them,
and also a sermon, and conversed with them on religious and de-
votional subjects
. Some neighbors happening to come in during
these exercises, being permitted to stay, were so pleased and
profited as to desire permission to come again. This was
granted; a good report of the meeting became general; many
requested leave to attend; and the house was soon filled, more
than two hundred at last attending ; and many were obliged to go
away for want of room. 8

Hannah Ball, of Wycombe, opened in 1769 a Sunday school
for the training of children in the Scripture. In a letter to Wes-
ley dated 1770 she gives the following description:

The children meet twice a week, every Sunday and Monday.
They are a wild little company, but seem willing to be instructed.
I labor among them, earnestly desiring to promote the interest of
the Church of Christ. 9

more

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As odd as this may sound, I've heard similar things come out of Billy Graham's and Rick Warren's mouths.

When you read Wesley's writings here, doesn't he sound like boasting? And doesn't he sound like his agenda is "church growth"(ie-bringing in numbers of people, and not spiritual growth, that is).

Scripture clearly lays out the role of a bishop(or overseer)...

1Tim 3:1  This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
1Ti 3:2  A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
1Ti 3:3  Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
1Ti 3:4  One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
1Ti 3:5  (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
1Ti 3:6  Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
1Ti 3:7  Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.


1Tim 2:12  But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

John 10:11  I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
Joh 10:12  But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
Joh 10:13  The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.

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« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2013, 02:20:44 pm »

Apparently, John Wesley may have been Catholic.

Infiltration By The Church Of Rome

Quote
Great names of the past are quoted as if they were in favour of a united front with Rome. These include John Calvin, John Wesley and Gresham Machen. Even Martin Luther is called in a Catholic book, a reformer of the Church. They speak in a derisory manner of Fundamentalism in 1890 as a mainstream, but in the 1990's as marginal.

http://www.ianpaisley.org/article.asp?ArtKey=infiltration
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« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2013, 02:33:14 pm »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methodism

Methodism

The Methodist movement is a group of historically related denominations of Protestant Christianity which derive their inspiration from the life and teachings of John Wesley. George Whitefield and John's brother Charles Wesley were also significant leaders in the movement. It originated as a revival within the 18th-century Church of England and became a separate Church following Wesley's death. Due to vigorous missionary activity, the movement spread throughout the British Empire, the United States, and beyond, today claiming approximately 80 million adherents worldwide.[1]

Methodism is characterised by its emphasis on helping the poor and the average person, its very systematic approach to building the person, and the "church" and its missionary spirit.[2] These ideals are put into practice by the establishment of hospitals, universities, orphanages, soup kitchens, and schools to follow Jesus' command to spread the Good News and serve all people.[3] The Methodist movement is also known for its rich musical tradition. Charles Wesley was instrumental in writing much of the hymnody of the Methodist Church,[4] and many other eminent hymn writers come from the Methodist tradition.

Methodists are convinced that building loving relationships with others through social service is a means of working towards the inclusiveness of God's love which, it is held, can reform a person to a state of perfection. They teach that Christ died for all of humanity, not just for a specific group, and thus everyone is entitled to God's grace. Theologically, this view is known as Arminianism, which denies that God has pre-ordained an elect number of people to eternal bliss whilst others perished eternally. Methodism has a wide variety of forms of worship, ranging from high church to low church in liturgical usage. John Wesley himself greatly valued the Anglican liturgy and tradition, and the American Methodist worship in The Book of Offices was based on the 1662 Book of Common Prayer.[5]

Early Methodists were drawn from all levels of society, including the aristocracy,[a] but the Methodist preachers took the message to labourers and criminals who tended to be left outside organized religion at that time. In Britain the Methodist Church had a major impact in the early decades of the making of the working class (1760–1820). In the United States it became the religion of many slaves who later formed "black churches" in the Methodist tradition.

Origins[edit]

The Methodist revival originated in Epworth, Lincolnshire, England. It began with a group of men, including John Wesley (1703–1791) and his younger brother Charles (1707–1788), as a movement within the Church of England in the 18th century.[6][7][8] The Wesley brothers founded the Holy Club while they were at Oxford, where John was a fellow and later a lecturer at Lincoln College.[9] The Holy Club met weekly and they systematically set about living a holy life. They were accustomed to receiving communion every week, fasting regularly, abstaining from most forms of amusement and luxury and frequently visited the sick and the poor, as well as prisoners. The fellowship were branded as "Methodist" by their fellow students because of the way they used "rule" and "method" to go about their religious affairs.[10] Wesley took the attempted mockery and turned it into a title of honour.

Initially the Methodists merely sought reform, by way of a return to the gospel, within the Church of England, but the movement spread with revival and soon a significant number of Anglican clergy became affiliated with the movement in the mid-18th century.[11] The early movement acted against perceived apathy in the Church of England, preaching in the open air and establishing Methodist societies wherever they went. These societies were divided into groups called classes — intimate meetings where individuals were encouraged to confess their sins to one another and to build each other up. They also took part in love feasts which allowed for the sharing of testimony, a key feature of early Methodists.

more
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« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2013, 12:25:56 pm »

OK, this is one of those "eat the meat, but spit out the bones" info(and there could be plenty of bones here). But nonetheless some of what I read here is pretty interesting(not interesting in THAT "positive" sense, but you know what I mean)...

http://histclo.com/youth/youth/org/nat/hitler/act/rel/hya-rel.htm

Hitler Youth: Religion

Some youth groups developed programs designed to weaken or destroy Christianity, such as the Hitler Youth. As most Germans were Christians, the NAZIs had to peruse this goal with some circumspection rather than the overt atheism of the Communist Young Pioneers. Concerning religion the NAZIS through the Hitler Youth pursued activities with a two-fold purpose. The first was to help break the children's ties to what ever affiliation with organized religious groups they received from their parents as well as any religious training they had received. This may have been more intense with the Hitler Youth than the BDM. Hitler Youth activities were often sponsored on Sunday to conflict with church attendance. At Hitler Youth activities, especially summer camps, away from their parents, the campaign against religion may have even been more effective than in the NAZI-controlled schools. Hitler Youth Leader, Grupenführer Baldur von Schirach composed catchy little marching ditties as, "We are the rollicking Hitler Youth; We have no need of Christian truth; no evil old priest these ties can sever; We're Hitler's children now and ever." The second was to sponsor a new pagan pseudo religious creed that would embrace NAZI values, especially volk culture, xenophobic nationalism, and racial hatred.

Historical Background

The NAZI approach to religion did not occur in a vacuum. From the beginning of the 19th century, various religious trends in Germany led to the development of highly varied spiritual movements, many of which rejected democracy. These trends were at first very limited, expoused by a few isolated intellectuals. By the late 19th century, however, a some social movements began to crystallize and attract an increasing number of followers. One of the most important youth groups was the Wandervogel. Many of these movements were Christian moves of varying descriptions. Other movements emphasized volk culture and some of the more virulently nationalistic groups harkened back to Germany's pre-Christian past. While the extremists were still fringe groups, by the 20th century, especially after the disaster of World War I (1914-18) elements of volk culture and interest in pre-Christian sagas and heroes touched many Germans. German composer Richard Wagner, for example, used the old Germanic sagas for many of his operas.

Approach

Some youth groups developed programs designed to weaken or destroy Christianity, such as the Hitler Youth. As most Germans were Christians, the NAZIs had to pursue this goal with some circumspection rather than the overt atheism of the Communist Young Pioneers. The Hitler Youth profram, however, left no doubt about how religion was viewed in the New Order. A typical marching chant was, "We are the rollickig Hitler Youth, We haveno need of Christian truth, No evil old priest these ties can sever, We're Hitler's children now and ever". [Conot, p. 422.]

Purpose

Concerning religion the NAZIS through the Hitler Youth pursued activities with a two-fold purpose. The first was to help break the children's ties to what ever affiliation with organized religious groups they received from their parents as well as any religious training they had received.

Baldur von Schirach

The principal architect of the Hitler Youth was Grupenführer Baldur von Schirach, often referred to as "the American NAZI". At the Nuremberg trials, part of von Schirach's defense was based on the fact that he unlike other top NAZIs continued to practice his Christian religion and that he pursued correct ties with Christian church groups in Germany and later in Austria after he was appointed Gauleiters, the German term for a kind of govenor or regional party leader. We know the devotion to Christianity is correct as regards his wife, who actually raised the treatment of the Jews with Hitler. We are less sure about von Schirach himself. HBU is unsure at this time how to evaluate these claims.


BDM

The NAZI attack on Christianity may have been more intense with the Hitler Youth than the BDM. This requires, however, further investigation.

Churches

Christianity since the conversion of the German tribes has been a major force in German life. Germany as the birth place of Martin Luther and the Reformation became divided with the north largely Protestant and the south along with Austria largely Catholic. Catholicism continued to strong in Bavaria and other areas of southern Germany. Catholics were also a majority in Austria which was added to the Reich in 1938 by the Anchluss. Gradually Germany itself became increasingly Protestant. There were major differences between the Catholic and Protestabt churches besides theological issues. The Roman Catholic Church was an international institution. Thec Proitestant churches were not. And important segments of the Protestaht churche were intensly nationalistic and influenced by Volkish thought that was so strong in the NAZI Party. Some background on German religious life is available in HBC. Christianity was assaulted by the NAZIs although often not overtly. Had the NAZIs emerged triumphant in World War II they would have initiated a much more overt and ditect assault on Christianity.

Protestant Churches

The Protestant Luthern (Evangelical) Church during the Weimar Republic and early NAZI era was divided into 28 Landeskirchen (provincial churches). The largest of these churches was in the Old Prussian Union around which the German Empire was built after the Franco-Prussian War (1870-71). Each provincial church was supported socially and financially by a ruling monarch which also offered institutional support. This also provided for a degree of independence from the state. The Church had what might be described as parliamentary system made up of two houses to address arange of theological and organizational issues. The German Workers' Party (which evolved into the NAZI Party) after World war I adopted a manifesto that was stridently anti-Semitic (1920). The Manifesto read, "We demand the freedom of all religious denominations in the State insofar as they do not endanger its existence or violate the ethical and moral feelings of the Germanic race. The Party as such takes its stand on a positive Christianity but does not tie itself in the matter of confession to any particular denomination. It fights the spirit of Jewish materialism inside and outside ourselves and it is convinced that a lasting recovery of our nation can only come from within and on the basis of the principle that the common good comes before the selfish good.” [Rhum von Oppen, p. 25] Although the clear implication was a limit on religious freedom not only for Jews, but Christains as well, there was no ourtrage from the country's Protestant establishment. The twenty fourth point of the manifesto advocates the institution of a "positive" Christianity. The Protestant establishment only began to react to the NAZIs when the NAZIs seized control and began to move against the Church's autonomy (1933). 

Catholic Church

Catholicism was a special target for the NAZIs, not only because of the the Church's moral influence, but because of its international connections. And the Catholic Church in the 19th century and during the Weimar Republic had played an important role for moderation in German parliamentary politics. Also the German Catholic Church was under the authority of the Pope and thus more difficult to dominate than the various national Protestant churches. The Church also ran schools or played an important role in many schools that they did not actually administer. The Catholic Church not only stood in the way of the NAZIs brutal use of terror, but it also opposed some of the draconian racial and other eugenics programs such as sterilization and euthanasia which the NAZIs planned to adopt. Hitler soon after his seizure of power in 1933 negotiated a Concordat with the Vatican. Like the other agreements he signed, he violated the provisions of this agreement almost from the beginning and began almost immediately to attack the rights of Catholics. Catholics youth groups were exempted from the initial actions by von Schirach at the Hitler Youth when most German youth groups were either abolished or incorporated in the Hitler Youth. This was just temporary and a series of actions by the Hitler Youth and NAZI Government made it increasingly difficult for those young people wanting to remain in Catholic youth groups. Members of the Hitler Youth were prohibited from belonging to Church youth groups and Catholic youth groups were the most numerous and important. Membership in the Church youth groups also complicated education, especially university admissions as well as career choices. HJ membership, for example, was necessary for civil service appointments. [Gilbert, p. 15-16.]

Activities

Hitler Youth activities were often sponsored on Sunday to conflict with church attendance. At Hitler Youth activities, especially summer camps, away from their parents, the campaign against religion may have even been more effective than in the NAZI-controlled schools. Hitler Youth Leader, Gruppenführer Baldur von Schirach composed catchy little marching ditties as, "We are the rollicking Hitler Youth; We have no need of Christian truth; no evil old priest these ties can sever; We're Hitler's children now and ever." The second was to sponsor a new pagan pseudo-religious creed that would embrace NAZI values, especially volk culture, xenophobic nationalism, and racial hatred.

Uniforms in Church

We are unsure to what extent German boys wore their Hitler Youth uniforms to church. We suspect that each year after the NAZI take over that church attendance declined and that it amy have been increasingly common for a boy to wear his Hitler Youth uniform to church. The undated portrait here shows a boy wearing his Hitler Youth uniform for his Confirmation (figure 1). The portrait is undated, but looks to have been well before the War, perhaps about 1935. A HBC reader writes, "... it's strange that there's no swastika on it. It's a 'S' instead on it." Actually it is not an "S", but the single lightening bolt symbol of the Hitler Youth. Actually most available Hitler Youth photographs show the boys without the swastika armband. As this was a formal dress occasion, you would think that he might wear an armband. We do not know if this portrait was taken before he was issued one or if he decided not to wear it for some religious reason. This seems unlikely as he felt this way he could have just not worn the uniform.

Undermining Religion

Basic Christian values and the importance of Christianity in German cultural and moral life posed a threat to Hitler and the NAZIs. Hitler was, however, convinced that he could undermine the influence of Churches and Christian parents through control of the educational program and even more importantly the Hitler Youth.

NAZI Religious Education

Religion was a difficult question for the NAZIs. Germany was a Christian nation. Most Germans thought of themselves as Christians, even many NAZI Party members. Hitler and his inner circle, however, were dismissive of Christianity. They wanted a new NAZI religion with national and racial connotations. The problem for the NAZIs was how to wean the German people from Christianity. Hitler had a very good sense about such matters, thus actions against religious groups were only taken incrementally as the NAZIs established their hold over Germany. Educating the children in schools was one approach. In this regards the German education system varied from state to state, but religious education was part of the curriculum in many German states.

Hitler Youth

A highly committed minority of Germans ardently believed in the NAZI creed when the NAZIs seized power in 1933. Hitler believed that while many adults would be difficult to convert that young people could be converted through the Hitler Youth. Some NAZIs like Himmler believed that Aryan blood would eventually draw Germans to the NAZIs. Hitler thought that the Hitler Youth program could be used to separate young people from the influence of Churches and Christian parents and here he proved essentially correct. He made no secret of this. During a NAZI rally on November 6, 1933 at Elbing in East Prussia, Hitler told the cheering audience, "When an opponent declares, 'I will not come over to your side,' I calmly say, 'Your child belongs to me already.' A people lives forever. What are you? You will pass on. Your descendants, however, now stand in the new camp. In a short time they will know nothing else but this new community." Here von Schirach took up the Führer's lead. In a speech 3 weeks later he declared that the Party was hoping to educate the new generation "in the cult of race and nation" and would, despite the Con Concordant with the Vatican succeed in disassociating Catholic youth from the Catholic youth organizations. [Gilbert, p. 16.]
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« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2013, 01:04:31 pm »

^^ Again, I'm not endorsing this info at this site, but nonetheless, if you can read b/w the lines, there are some things that are eyepopping...

1) Although the info doesn't say whether or not Hitler and N@zi Germany infiltrated church's Sunday Schools, at the same time, it just SOUNDS LIKE they may have found subtle ways to do so when they drew away the youth. Look at our present day with all of these cross-denominational, compromised Sunday School materials these church buildings use.

2) As Hitler starting youth activities that would fall on Sundays et al - kind of reminds me how these modern-day churches would have their annual summer camps(for like 1-4 weeks or so). I've only been to one of them, which was WAY back in the 1980's, but it was anything BUT Christian! The elderly camp counselors would say stuff how we need to go to the library and read (secular)books, but NOT ONCE did they say we should do daily bible studies. And not to mention too every night we saw some New Age Hollywood movie like "Star Wars".

3) On the outward appearance, it may have looked like Hitler was "warring" against the Catholic Church - pt being that you're seeing a lot of that here with Obama and the Catholic Church, where it "looks like" Obama is trying to strip this contraception exemption mandate(or whatever you call it) from the ACA from these "religious" groups, and it's the Catholic Church that's coming out all vocal "in defense". Notice how you RARELY see any Protestant/Baptist groups doing so. Ultimately, this Hegelian Dialectic game is nothing new under the sun - and at the same time, the Catholic Church gains trust from these Protestant/Baptist groups that stay quiet.

4) "Common good"? "Positive Christianity"? Both of which went on during N@zi Germany? We are hearing this ALOT now, and the modern-day church system has all but embraced them!

5) Notice the "religious freedom" buzzword embraced back then - we having been hearing this QUITE A BIT now! Yeah, beware of pastors and other professing Christian leaders that use this phrase!

6) This link talks about how the RCC ran schools and played an important role in schools that they didn't administer - thought I would bring this up with my experiences living in New Orleans for almost 20 years. I went to a Catholic HS b/c the public school system there is one of the worst in the country, if not the worst. Ultimately, for some reason, black people became the scapegoats for the condition of the public school system there, and to be frank, people really don't know why(even though non-black people continue to point to fingers at blacks). I've heard some mean, nasty, and hateful things like how b/c blacks grew up poor, they're the ones that are more tempted to steal and be bribed hence more corruption(Well, they forgot all the white people on Capitol Hill that are doing the same  Roll Eyes ).

Pt being the New Orleans school system was more or less taken over by the Catholic Church. It wasn't THAT long ago(like the 60's) when the public school system was in good shape. No, I am NOT endorsing the public school system education by any means, but point I'm making here is that the Jesuits have been very crafty at causing destruction, then even more craftily at deflecting the blame at others. And the next thing everyone knew, the RCC archdiocese in New Orleans got all the praise for "saving" the education system there.

7) This link talks about the decline in church membership in churches in Germany as Hitler was targeting the youth - look at our present day with declining membership in the Southern Baptist Convention and other "Christian" denominations, and throw in the Mormon Church/Jehovah's Witnesses for that matter too.

No, I'm not endorsing the Freemasonic-infiltrated SBC et al, but while these "denominations" have decreased, these seeker-sensitive megachurches have been on the rise, which have largely appealed to the Millennial Generation. From what I've seen in news reports and other programs on PBS et al, young people have all but jumped on board with this Emergent/Postmodernism theology, as well as these "social justice" institutions. And all of them pretty much embrace "Positive" Christianity and RCC pagan practices.


Again, not giving that web site an endorsement, but nonetheless if you read b/w the lines, it says some eyepopping things.
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« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2013, 02:08:33 pm »

Quote
And all of them pretty much embrace "Positive" Christianity and RCC pagan practices.

I believe that's because that is what the world teaches. It plays on man's arrogance of self (sound familiar?). People are proud of themselves for doing things. They are basically saying, "Look at me and what a fine job I did, now pat me on the back for my good works". The carnal flesh just loves that attitude simply because it's born of the flesh. So, people tend to like anything that pumps up their pride, that plays on their carnal attitude, and if you don't hold them accountable for their actions, then you got pews full of blind sheep.

All of these various agendas point back to that basic concept, that man is proud and thinks he is the creator of his own universe. So those who don't look to God for answers are forced to look elsewhere for explanations of the things around them. To me, it's proof that what Jesus says is true, that "the Jews require a sign and the Greeks seek after wisdom". If they aren't looking to God, then they are looking somewhere else, and the Father of Lies is more than happy to offer them many paths to destruction in the form of all these various carnal false doctrines that are designed to cater to the flesh.

"(For all the Athenians and strangers which were there spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new thing.)" Acts 17:21 (KJB)
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« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2013, 12:37:07 am »

I dunno, but having seen a few of the Obama Youth Corps doing chanting rituals a couple of years ago, doesn't this VBS group ritual(using the Lord's prayer passage) look eerily similar?

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« Reply #20 on: October 04, 2013, 05:20:16 am »

They don't even know the words, they have to use notes!  Roll Eyes

5  But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
6  And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
7  And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.
Matthew 23:5-7 (KJB)
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« Reply #21 on: October 06, 2013, 07:55:50 pm »

I've had an email exchange with Bryan recently over Sunday Schools/VBS exposed, and in addition to everything mentioned in this thread, he also found out these other things.

He said it may be awhile before he gets this video out b/c he has a lot of other stuff going on. Anyhow, without posting his email word for word in its entirety(I'm only copying and pasting bits of what he told me), he gave me his permission to post here what else he researched...

1) Hitler used Sunday schools and youth groups to recruit children into the Nazi youth movement. He taught the youth that old people were foolish and not as intelligent as teenagers. In other words he used youthful rebellion to twist the minds of the youth.

2) The modern VBS/Christian youth movement is doing the same thing today. Bryan found videos where Baptist, Methodist, Lutheran, and even Catholic VBS programs are using the same methods to teach children! Many of these materials are leaning towards an ecumenical movement, and often put down the elderly along with the old hymns.

3) It gets worse. Bryan found multiple churches performing in "drill teams". Men, women, and children in uniforms and camouflage BDU's shouting out orders and quoting scripture in formation! It is VERY weird!!

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« Reply #22 on: October 07, 2013, 04:39:31 am »

Camos and drill teams? Some "works" based groups take the "soldier" part the wrong way. They don't understand this is a spiritual war.
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« Reply #23 on: October 07, 2013, 06:05:52 am »

anytime you are teaching children you are indoctrinating them into some kind of belief system. The n@zi's knew this very well, bu i didnt originate with them. This goes all the way back to Babylon and the mystery religion schools. We still do this today through the Robert Muller education system in American public schools, tha is one reason why dinosaurs play such an important role in preschool and kindergarten classes. The child is carefully indoctrinated into the religion of evolution.
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« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2013, 10:04:16 pm »

It was a recent Greg Miller sermon where Miller talked about the Antichrist, and said how the writers of Superman and Star Wars came up with their ideas via their Sunday Schools(Lucas went to a Methodist Church). Couldn't find this direct connection on the internet, but nonetheless found this on Lucas...

http://www.beliefnet.com/Celebrity-Faith-Database/L/George-Lucas.aspx

George Lucas is the creator of movies that have defined generations. Star Wars and Indiana Jones each have their own unique story to tell, but both contain very interesting references to religion. From "the force" to Jones' excavation of the Ark of the Covenant, it is clear that Lucas has more than a passing interest in religion. A California native, he grew up in the Methodist church. He became interested in comparative mythologies prior to making Star Wars, and eventually found a distinct interest in Eastern religions. Lucas now considers himself a "Buddhist Methodist," identifying strongly with both his current beliefs and the beliefs of his childhood.


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« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2013, 10:29:30 pm »

From a Methodist Church web site...

Superman Is a Methodist

by Matt West and Douglas Cannon

As I’m sure all of you know, Superman is regarded as a universal symbol of hope, a selfless crusader for justice and the pursuit of human dignity.  He is a man empowered with inestimable strength, speed, durability, flight, and morality due to the combination of his alien physiology and Christian values.  What you may not know is Superman is a Methodist.

Superman was created in 1932 by two young men named Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster, whom, as children of immigrant Jews, wanted to create a hero that could assert physical and spiritual control in a world that had often left them feeling powerless.  Siegel and Shuster concocted a Moses-like origin for the character in which, as a young child, Superman was sent forth in a small spacecraft from the dying planet of Krypton only to be found in a cornfield in Kansas by two unlikely adoptive parents, Midwestern farmers, Jonathan and Martha Kent.

Clark, as Superman was named by the Kents, was raised as a Methodist. While growing up in Smallville, Kansas, Clark Kent attended Sunday church services at the local Methodist church with his adoptive parents every week.  These aspects of the character are not speculative but are considered to be canonical.  You may find it surprising that, when a young Clark faces the pivotal crossroads in his life, he turned to his pastor for help as he struggled to discern what to do with his life and unique abilities.  What you won’t find surprising is that this was his pastor’s response, “We each do what we are able to, Clark, some less, some more.  But, when the Almighty sets a course [for your life] there’s nothing that a man can do to alter it.”

I’ve always found it fascinating that two young Jewish men should craft such an iconic character based on a deep appreciation and respect for the Christ-centered values that they perceived the Methodist Church embodies.  I also take a lot of pride in the fact that, unlike the vast majority of other superheroes, Clark Kent took up the mantle of Superman, not out of revenge or a preconceived notion of greatness or obligation but, instead, as a natural extension of being in tune with the movings of the Holy Spirit in his life, adopting a humble Christ-like model for his actions.

As I considered Superman’s story, I am struck by the parallels between Superman’s experiences and demeanor and those of many of the Methodist men and women that have shaped my life. Like Superman, the Methodists that I know aren’t often quick to tout the accomplishments of our Church or proclaim the many ministries and outreach programs that the United Methodist Church pursues.  However, like Superman, when people need help, Methodists respond through organizations such as the United Methodist Committee on Relief.  When people need justice, Superman is there. Likewise, when oppression is encountered throughout the world, The United Methodist Church (through such agencies as the General Board of Church & Society and the General Board of Global Ministries) is one of the first groups to take up the cause.  People around the world associate Superman’s “S” emblem with his quest for “truth, justice and the American way.”  As Mission Sunday approaches, it is my hope that just as many people associate our cross-and-flame logo with our witness to the love and power of God to transform both our local community and the world through Jesus Christ.

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Although doesn't say anything about Sunday School, nonetheless you see the Methodist Church ties to this comic strip...
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« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2013, 10:30:47 pm »

It's as if all of these "influential" people(at least some to most) have one connection in common - they all were indoctrinated in these Sunday Schools - Charles Spurgeon, Dwight L Moody, George Lucas, John Wesley/Methodist Church(in their case, they pushed this movement). And it was through this that a lot of the precursors to the grand deception have been pushed pretty heavily.(ie-Spurgeon's church was the precursor to the modern-day megachurch we see now, and Moody/Wesley/Methodist Church had their own hymns written after Christians used the Psalms only for a long, long, long time, Lucas pushing the big New Age lie that Satan deceived Eve with)

And to add to this - apparently Rick Warren and Ray Comfort have generational ties to Spurgeon(not by blood, but their great-grandparents were evangelized by him).

Matthew 12:34  O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

Mat 23:33  Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
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« Reply #27 on: October 28, 2013, 03:38:59 pm »

Saw this on a First Baptist Church web site(advertising their youth group program)...

REMIX - Youth Ministries

Our goal in Revolution Ministries as an extension of the body of local believers is to be the hands and feet of Christ everywhere we go, and to bring a Revolutionary Gospel through not only words but also actions fueled by the love that the Father has bestowed upon us. Our task is not an easy one, but it is our task. With guidance and wisdom from God, and a little help from parents and volunteers (just kidding, a lot of help!), we will complete this task that has been set before all Christians.

To accomplish all this work we have many activities built around the ministry to train up our young people to become mighty warriors for the cause of Christ. We have Sunday School activities, Wednesday night Bible studies, local mission projects, summer mission camps, and some mission trips.

Sunday School (starting at 9am on Sundays) is consists of individual male and female classes that are broken up by grades so that Biblical materials can be taught appropriately. On Wednesday nights (6:30pm Wednesday Nights) our very own “house band” that consists of youth and youth volunteers leads us in God glorifying worship, and along with prayer and a sound message from the Bible, we encounter God so that He may change our lives and our hearts.

Missions Activities

We take many trips to camps and ministry sites throughout the year. Some camps/weekends include M-FUGE, YEC, Collision, and some conferences. At these places we hear sound doctrine being preached that creates or strengthens an already existing desire to be a Revolutionary for Christ.

Local Missions/ Services

Many of our youth serve in other areas of our church. Some participate in our great Sanctuary Choir and Sanctuary Orchestra. Others serve in our food pantry that provides food for local families in need. And some help with our Brotherhood Breakfast that meets on every first Sunday of the month.

This is how Revolutionaries are trained. We provide a well-rounded experience in the ministry of loving people through the sharing of the gospel, fulfilling their physical needs and listening to sound biblical preaching. Remember that our task, our calling, isn’t an easy one. But with proper training and sensitivity to God’s will we can Revolutionalize the world.

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If this isn't blasphemy, then I don't know what is...

Mark_1:22  And they were astonished at his[Jesus Christ's] doctrine: for he taught them as one that had authority, and not as the scribes.

Luke_17:20  And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Luk_17:21  Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.


Luke_18:17  Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.
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« Reply #28 on: October 29, 2013, 06:36:15 am »

Quote
Our goal in Revolution Ministries as an extension of the body of local believers is to be the hands and feet of Christ everywhere we go, and to bring a Revolutionary Gospel through not only words but also actions...

48  Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
49  Heaven [is] my throne, and earth [is] my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what [is] the place of my rest?
50  Hath not my hand made all these things?
Acts 7:48-50 (KJB)
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« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2013, 09:15:22 pm »

I don't know, but why is it that a number of famous people(whether political, showbiz, journalism, or whatever) grew up in the Methodist Church? Apparently, so did NWO minion Nelson Mandela.

http://hollowverse.com/nelson-mandela/

Mandela is a Christian, though which type specifically is up for debate.1 There is reason to believe he leans toward Jehovah’s Witness given the fact that his first wife, sister, and a few of his other relatives claim that faith. Then again, he did attend a Methodist Church school growing up, like his mother.2 But unless it’s about religious equality, faith isn’t something Mandela has spoken much about.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And recently Texas Wesleyan University(a Methodist Univ) opened up a Muslim "prayer" room. Not saying other "denominations" are good, but it seems like this particular "Protestant" group has been a very big hotbed for brainwashing indoctrination.
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