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Was Lot "worldly"?

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Psalm 51:17
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« on: October 08, 2013, 05:58:42 pm »

OK, for a long time now, I've heard in Churchianity circles and from "Christian" books(written by "prominent Christian" authors) that while Lot loved God, at the same time he was worldly largely b/c he not only chose Sodom and Gomorrah to live in, but he also yoked and intermingled with them. But even despite all of this, God rescued him and his family b/c Lot loved him.

What do the scriptures say?

2Peter 2:6  And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
2Pe 2:7  And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
2Pe 2:8  (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds



Personally, this disturbs me when I hear this nonsense in Churchianity circles and these "Christian" books b/c...

1) They don't know the scriptures.

2) It just seems like the messages they're getting to you is that you HAVE TO live some kind of righteous and near-sinless life, even if you do love God and have eternal security.

Romans 3:20  Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

3) Lot loved God but lived like the world? This is contrary to what John says...

1John 2:15  Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
1Jn 2:16  For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.


4) As much as the truth hurts, America today is Sodom. So using this logic, does this mean Christians in America like ourselves have to move out of this country, so we're (supposedly)not making the same mistake Lot did? Roll Eyes

1Peter 1:6  Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
1Pe 1:7  That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

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Christian40
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« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2013, 04:55:58 am »

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As much as the truth hurts, America today is Sodom. So using this logic, does this mean Christians in America like ourselves have to move out of this country, so we're (supposedly)not making the same mistake Lot did?

Genesis 19:12 And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place:
13 For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to destroy it.
14 And Lot went out, and spake unto his sons in law, which married his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this place; for the LORD will destroy this city. But he seemed as one that mocked unto his sons in law.
15 And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city.
16 And while he lingered, the men laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters; the LORD being merciful unto him: and they brought him forth, and set him without the city.
17 And it came to pass, when they had brought them forth abroad, that he said, Escape for thy life; look not behind thee, neither stay thou in all the plain; escape to the mountain, lest thou be consumed.
18 And Lot said unto them, Oh, not so, my Lord:
19 Behold now, thy servant hath found grace in thy sight, and thou hast magnified thy mercy, which thou hast shewed unto me in saving my life; and I cannot escape to the mountain, lest some evil take me, and I die:
20 Behold now, this city is near to flee unto, and it is a little one: Oh, let me escape thither, (is it not a little one?) and my soul shall live.

These "men" were angels this is a different scenario in that the angels turned up and told Lot and his relatives to flee. i assure you that if an angel turned up here and said go i would go. The thing is that you do what God wants you to do. i think that God will make it very plain to you if He wants you to leave. Something to pray about definitely.
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« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2013, 12:49:24 pm »

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i assure you that if an angel turned up here and said go i would go.

Peter basically told Jesus to His face the same thing!

"For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that." James 4:15 (KJB)
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Psalm 51:17
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« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2013, 04:07:47 pm »

Very good points, everyone.

But the point I was trying to make was that the WAY Churchianity and "prominent Christian" authors have been portraying Lot - they've been saying for a long time(it seems) that WHILE HE LIVED in Sodom and Gomorrah(before he was rescued, that is), he was worldly, lived like the world, yoked with Sodom residents, etc.(Yes, even Churchianity recognized how God rescued Sodom and his family, but it was the OTHER IMPORTANT things they've been in gross error in)

And they'll even use this passage in Genesis to try to prove their point...

Gen 13:10  And Lot lifted up his eyes, and beheld all the plain of Jordan, that it was well watered every where, before the LORD destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, even as the garden of the LORD, like the land of Egypt, as thou comest unto Zoar.

Pretty much, they try to say how he gave into the "lust of his eyes" when he chose this place to live in.(and then go on from there how he lived worldly in Sodom) Which is why I threw in the America being Sodom example - was trying to say that if we use this logic that Lot was being worldly and luStful when he chose this place to live in, then I guess Christians in Sodom America made a mistake to live here?

Ultimately - the confusion it's caused to Churchianity is that they're given a false message that they HAVE TO live righteous lives.

Again, look at what Peter says concerning Lot(in the OP).

1John 4:5  They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
1Jn 4:6  We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

« Last Edit: October 09, 2013, 05:05:21 pm by BornAgain2 » Report Spam   Logged
Christian40
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« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2013, 04:16:37 am »


Again, look at what Peter says concerning Lot(in the OP).

1John 4:5  They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
1Jn 4:6  We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.



what Jesus said here:

John 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

sums it up
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