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The Falling Away, sodomite version

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Author Topic: The Falling Away, sodomite version  (Read 5703 times)
Mark
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« on: October 20, 2013, 07:22:26 am »

Detroit Baptist leader resigns after announcing she married a woman



Facing a backlash from conservatives in her congregation, a noted Christian leader in Detroit resigned Friday from her church after announcing earlier this month she had married a woman.

Bishop Allyson D. Nelson Abrams stepped down from Zion Progress Baptist Church, where she had served for five years as its first female pastor. Her announcement from the pulpit earlier this month that she had married a woman stunned many local Baptists.

Abrams’ resignation comes just days after the U.S. District Court in Michigan took up a challenge to the Michigan Marriage Act that bans same sex marriage.

Abrams, 43, used to be married to a man, but she told congregants Oct. 6 she was in love with Diana Williams, a bishop emeritus with the Imani Temple African-American Catholic Congregation in Washington, D.C., a church that broke off from the Catholic Church. The two married in March in Iowa, where same-sex marriage is legal.

Given the conservative views of many Baptists on the issue of homosexuality and female pastors, Abrams’ announcement caused an intense debate among local Christians. She said many supported her decision to come out while others opposed her gay marriage. Some urged her to stay with the church, but Abrams said she resigned because she didn’t want to further create division. Some in the congregation had found out about her same-sex marriage before she made her Oct. 6 announcement and were making it an issue that was dividing the church.

“I know how important it is for congregations to stay together,” she told the Free Press. “I didn’t want to split the church any further over this issue.”

Abrams also resigned as secretary of the Council of Baptist Pastors of Detroit and Vicinity, an influential umbrella group of African-American Christians in metro Detroit, and as co-editor of the magazine of the Progressive National Baptist Convention.

Abrams cited biblical verses to support the idea that same-sex relationships are allowable under Christian teachings, including Luke 7:1-10, which talks about the love a man has for his male servant.

Saying that love is a big part of Christianity, Abrams said: “We all know that we’ve been made in God’s image, and so no matter what you look like, no matter who you are, no matter what your orientation is,” we should be free to love whom we want.

“Love is something that’s supposed to be unconditional,” she added. “And as Christians, if anybody is supposed to be loving, we are.”

Abrams, who has a doctorate degree in theology, said her views about love and orientation changed a “little over a year ago.”

“I progressed in my theology and came to the point where I would love whichever came to me. I wasn’t just open to (a specific) gender, I was open to love in whatever way the Lord would bless me.”

Asked how she would classify herself in terms of sexual orientation, Abrams said: “I’m not classifying myself in any particular area.”

Abrams’ decision comes at a time of vigorous discussions among Christians over gay marriage, as advocates seek to legalize it across the U.S.

The Rev. Charles C. Adams, the presiding pastor of one of Detroit’s biggest churches, Hartford Memorial Baptist Church, said he supports Abrams.

“Bishop Abrams is a very intelligent, conscientious and progressive minister,” he said. “She has done a lot to help people.

“She, herself did not seek to make this an issue,” he added. “It was an issue that from my understanding was ignited by rumors and innuendos ... somebody looking up the marriage certificate on the Internet.”

Adams, who supports gay marriage in terms of constitutional rights, said there needs to be more discussion of this issue in the African-American Christian community.

By denying gay marriage, “we are denying people equal protection under the law,” Adams said. “There is no justification for that. We have same-gender couples working in every sector of society and they are not being treated fairly.”

Others disagree with Abrams, saying she is violating Christian doctrine. Elder Levon Yuille, pastor of The Bible Church in Ypsilanti, said that gay marriage is "diametrically opposed to the teachings of the Bible." Yuille said that unless Abrams stops being in a gay relationship, she should stop preaching.

"To be in accordance with scripture, she would have to give up that type of homosexual lifestyle," he said.

A native of Birmingham, Ala., Abrams graduated from Howard University in Washington, D.C., with a degree in mechanical engineering. She attended law school for two years before deciding to go into the ministry. She got a masters in divinity from United Theological Seminary in Dayton, Ohio, and later a doctorate in ministry from United in 2005.

She gave her first sermon in 1998, moved to Detroit in 1999, and was ordained in 2001. Before leading Zion Progress, she was pastor for seven years at Speak the Truth Baptist Church. Abrams became a bishop last year.

Abrams said her interpretation of scripture is compatible with same-sex relationships. She said that Greek words used in the Bible, “entimos doulos pais,” can be interpreted together to refer to a male lover.

She acknowledges there can be varying views on this issue.

“People have the right to interpret scripture whatever way they please,” she said. “I respect difference of opinions.”

As for what’s next for her, she said she’s considering joining two other denominations but would not say which ones. She said will continue to preach the gospel.

“I’m still going to preach and teach and do what God has called me to do,” she said.

It wasnt the Lord God that called you

http://www.freep.com/article/20131018/NEWS/310180141/Local-Baptist-bishop-resigns-after-her-gay-marriage?utm
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Kilika
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« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2013, 06:22:33 am »

Quote
Some in the congregation had found out about her same-sex marriage before she made her Oct. 6 announcement and were making it an issue that was dividing the church.

Ya think!  Roll Eyes

Those people aren't the ones making it an issue. It's the reprobate leading that group and lying to them that has made it an issue.

No wonder these "churches" are falling apart. A house divided cannot stand.
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« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2013, 08:41:34 am »

Pa. pastor faces church trial over son's gay marriage

A Pennsylvania pastor charged under United Methodist law with officiating his son's same-sex marriage is scheduled to go on trial Monday.

The Rev. Frank Schaefer, 51, could be defrocked if a jury comprised of fellow Methodist clergy convicts him of breaking his pastoral vows by officiating the 2007 ceremony in Massachusetts. Schaefer's supporters argue that church teaching on homosexuality is outmoded.

"Public opinion has changed very rapidly," said the pastor's son, Tim Schaefer, 29. "I hope this leads to a renewed conversation to revisit these policies to see if they are a little archaic."

The nation's largest mainline Protestant denomination accepts gay and lesbian members, but rejects the practice of homosexuality as "incompatible with Christian teaching." Clergy who perform same-sex unions risk punishment ranging from a reprimand to suspension to losing their minister's credentials.

The issue has split the church. Hundreds of Methodist ministers have publicly rejected church doctrine on homosexuality, and some of them face discipline for presiding over same-gender unions.

Critics say those pastors are sowing division within the church and ignoring the church's democratic decision-making process. Indeed, the denomination's top legislative body, the 1,000-member General Conference, reaffirmed the church's 40-year-old policy on gays at its last worldwide meeting in 2012.

The Methodists have set aside three days for Schaefer's trial, to be held at a church retreat in Spring City, Pa.

Tim Schaefer, of Hull, Mass., will testify on his father's behalf.

"(The defense wants) to highlight how hurtful the policy of the church is toward the LGBT community," he said.

Tim Schaefer struggled as a teenager, aware of Methodist doctrine on homosexuality. He said he prayed every night that "God would make me normal, take this away from me." He contemplated suicide but knew it would devastate his family. Schaefer finally told his parents at age 17, and he said they accepted him completely.

Years later, Schaefer knew he wanted his dad to perform his wedding ceremony.

"I remember thinking I have two choices: I can ask my dad and know I am putting him in a position ... where he would risk his career, or I could not ask my dad and really risk hurting his feelings. I think he would have been devastated if I hadn't asked him," he said.

Frank Schaefer has said he informed his superiors in the Eastern Pennsylvania Conference that he planned to officiate his son's wedding, and again after the ceremony, which took place at a restaurant near Boston. He said he faced no discipline until April — about a month before the church's six-year statute of limitations was set to expire — when one of his congregants filed a complaint.

Schaefer could have avoided a trial if he had agreed to never again perform a same-gender wedding, but he declined because three of his four children are gay.

A Methodist trial resembles a secular trial in many ways, with counsel representing each side, a judge and jury, opening statements and closing arguments, and testimony and evidence.

The 13-member jury, called a "trial court," will be selected from a pool of 35. It takes at least nine votes to convict. If Schaefer is convicted, the trial moves to a penalty phase, with the same jury settling on a punishment. At least seven members of the jury must agree on the penalty.

Schaefer can appeal a conviction, but neither the church nor the person who brought the charge may appeal an acquittal.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/11/17/pastor-son-gay-marriage/3618503/?utm
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« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2013, 03:57:55 pm »

Pa. pastor faces church trial over son's gay marriage


Methodist pastor pleads not guilty in gay marriage case

 A United Methodist minister who officiated at his son's same-sex wedding has pleaded not guilty to charges that he broke his pastoral vows.

Frank Schaefer of Lebanon entered his plea Monday at the beginning of a church trial in southeastern Pennsylvania that is rekindling debate over the denomination's policy on gay marriage.
 
Schaefer could face punishment ranging from a reprimand to suspension to losing his minister's credentials if a jury composed of fellow Methodist clergy convicts him of breaking church law that bans clergy from performing same-sex weddings.
 
The church's attorney, the Rev. Christopher Fisher, told the 13-member jury in his opening statement that Schaefer clearly violated the Methodist Book of Discipline by presiding over the 2007 ceremony in Massachusetts. He said the complainant — a member of Schaefer's congregation — was dismayed and shocked when he learned of the ceremony earlier this year.
 
Schaefer blessed a union that has been "declared by the United Methodist Church to be incompatible with Christian teaching," said Fisher, echoing the language of the Methodists' book of law and doctrine.
 
Schaefer's attorney, the Rev. Robert Coombe, told the jury that Schaefer had simply extended God's love to his son.

So hes a liar also, he admits to doing the wedding, which broke the his chuchs laws, not to menion Gods, and them says he isnt guilty. That makes you a LIAR also.
 
"It's important to him to practice in his family what he preached to his congregation," Coombe said. "He did this wedding as an act of love and not as an act of rebellion." Nope, its an act of rebellion, Bible says so, maybe he should have read that.
 
Dozens of Schaefer's supporters held signs and sang hymns outside the trial, which is being held at a Methodist retreat about 60 miles east of his church, wearing rainbow stoles, holding signs and singing hymns.
 
"I'm in support of the church becoming a new church that welcomes everyone," said Bunnie Bryant, 64, of West Chester, who was holding a sign that said: "Law or love? Jesus chose love." She continued, "I question the church's law trumping a father's love."

This lady is in for a hot welcome some day
 
But a pastor who's also attending the trial said that it isn't about gay rights, but rather about Schaefer's breaking of church law and his pastoral vows.
 
The Rev. Judy Kehler-Shirey, a retired Methodist minister who has attended Schaefer's church, said she personally disagrees with the church's policy on gay marriage but would not officiate at a same-sex wedding. This from a WOMAN who takes the Lords title as her own...  Roll Eyes
 
"I have a vow that is connected to all the other United Methodist pastors internationally. We have a covenant to follow the Discipline whether we agree with it or not," she said. "That has to take priority." Ya because we sure dont follow Gods Book
 
The nation's largest mainline Protestant denomination accepts gay and lesbian members, but it rejects the practice of homosexuality as "incompatible with Christian teaching." you cant have one without the other...
 
Schaefer has said he informed his superiors in the Eastern Pennsylvania Conference that he planned to officiate his son's wedding, and again after the ceremony, which took place at a restaurant near Boston.
 
He faced no discipline until April — less than a month before the church's six-year statute of limitations was set to expire — when one of his congregants filed a complaint.
 
Schaefer could have avoided a trial if he had agreed to never again perform a same-gender wedding, but he declined because three of his four children are gay. I think that says it all right there...
 
A Methodist trial resembles a secular trial in many ways, with counsel representing each side, a judge and jury, opening statements and closing arguments, and testimony and evidence. Schaefer can appeal a conviction, but neither the church nor the person who brought the charge may appeal an acquittal.

 - See more at: http://www.onenewsnow.com/ap/religion/methodist-pastor-pleads-not-guilty-in-gay-marriage-case#sthash.V2hMsw54.dpuf
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« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2013, 07:11:43 pm »

Jury convicts Pa. Methodist pastor for gay wedding

 A United Methodist minister was convicted Monday in a Pennsylvania church trial of breaking church law by officiating at his son's same-sex marriage, a case that rekindled debate over the policy of the nation's largest mainline Protestant denomination.

The Rev. Frank Schaefer testified that he tried to follow God's command to minister to all, even if he disobeyed the Methodist Book of Discipline.

Schaefer, of Lebanon, Pa., said he could have avoided the trial by agreeing to avoid any more same-sex ceremonies. But he declined, noting that three of his four children are gay.

The charges over the 2007 ceremony in Massachusetts came just a month shy of the church's six-year statute of limitations, after a congregant complained.

Schaefer could face punishment ranging from a reprimand to losing his minister's credentials after the jury convicted him of breaking church law that bans clergy from performing same-sex weddings. The jury will reconvene Tuesday for the penalty phase.

The nation's largest mainline Protestant denomination accepts gay and lesbian members but rejects the practice of homosexuality as "incompatible with Christian teaching."

rest: http://www.ksro.com/news/article.aspx?id=6137866
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« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2013, 06:43:05 am »

Frank Schaefer, Pennsylvania Methodist Pastor, Suspended After Officiating Son's Gay Wedding

A United Methodist minister from Pennsylvania who was convicted under church law of officiating at his son's same-sex wedding ceremony was suspended for 30 days Tuesday and told he will lose his credentials if he violates any of the church's rules in that time.

The same jury of fellow pastors that convicted Rev. Frank Schaefer on Monday of breaking his vows also told him he must surrender his credentials if he can't reconcile his new calling to the gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender community with the laws from the church's Book of Discipline.

Schaefer told reporters afterward that he had no intention of changing his mind and said he expects to lose his credentials in 30 days.

Before the punishment was announced, Schaefer, who was convicted for officiating at his son's 2007 wedding ceremony in Massachusetts, told the jury Tuesday that he is unrepentant and refused to promise he wouldn't perform more gay unions.

Rather than beg for mercy, the pastor upped the stakes.

The church "needs to stop judging people based on their sexual orientation," he told jurors. "We have to stop the hate speech. We have to stop treating them as second-class Christians."

After the jury pronounced its sentence, Schaefer's supporters began overturning chairs in the courtroom — symbolizing the biblical story of Jesus overturning the tables of the money changers — and held an impromptu communion service.

Schaefer's trial rekindled debate within the nation's largest mainline Protestant denomination over church policies on homosexuality and same-sex marriage. The denomination accepts gay and lesbian members, but it rejects the practice of homosexuality as "incompatible with Christian teaching."

Schaefer donned a rainbow-colored stole on the witness stand and told jurors it symbolized his commitment to the cause.

"I will never be silent again," he said, as some of his supporters wept in the gallery. "This is what I have to do."

Jon Boger, who filed the initial complaint against Schaefer, was outraged by the pastor's recalcitrance. The career Naval officer grew up in Zion United Methodist Church of Iona, the church that Schaefer has led for 11 years.

"Frank Schaefer sat here and openly rebuked the United Methodist Church, its policies, standards and doctrines," Bolger said when called as a rebuttal witness. "He should no longer be in service as a minister of the United Methodist Church, not at Iona, not anywhere else."

Earlier Tuesday, the Methodists' prosecutor called former members of Schaefer's church who said his conduct split the congregation, and experts who said the punishment should serve as a deterrent to other like-minded clergy.

Christina Watson said her family left Schaefer's church because they no longer wanted to be "subjected to the preaching and teaching" of Schaefer.

"To me, it wasn't a good Christian example for ministers to say it's OK to break the rules of your church," she testified.

The Rev. Paul Stallworth, who leads a United Methodist task force on sexuality and abortion, testified that church law requires jurors to "openly rebuke" Schaefer so that fellow clergy will think twice before breaking it.

Schaefer had previously testified that he performed his son's 2007 wedding in Massachusetts out of love, not a desire to flout church teaching on homosexuality.

But Tuesday's testimony made clear he has had a change of heart.

"I have to minister to those who hurt and that's what I'm doing," said Schaefer.

The prosecutor, the Rev. Christopher Fisher, invited Schaefer to "repent of your actions" and pledge never again to perform a homosexual union.

"I cannot," Schaefer replied.

His son, Tim Schaefer, told jurors he knew he was putting his father in a difficult position by asking him to officiate his wedding. But he concluded he would hurt his father's feelings if he didn't ask.

Schaefer said he hoped his father's trial would start a larger conversation in the denomination.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/19/frank-schaefer-pastor-gay-marriage_n_4306009.html
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« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2013, 06:45:16 am »



Yes it does say just who and what you are...
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« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2013, 12:44:50 pm »

Quote
the laws from the church's Book of Discipline.

And THAT is part of their problem, adding to the Word of God the doctrines of men.

Might I recommend they follow the law of God in the Holy Bible, and first examine whether they themselves are in the faith. Indeed the person should be rebuked for his position on homosexuality and given opportunity to repent, but if he refuses as he seems to be doing, then he must be "put away" and not allowed back into the group till he does repent.
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« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2013, 11:40:42 am »

Texas United Methodist Bishop Reinstates Lesbian’s Ordination Candidacy

A United Methodist Bishop for the San Antonio area has reinstated the candidacy of a lesbian woman who is seeking to be ordained in the denomination as a deacon.
 
Mary Ann Kaiser serves as the youth director at University United Methodist Church in Austin. She initially became a candidate for ordination in the Alabama-West Florida Annual Conference in 2008, during which time she not living as a homosexual.
 
Kaiser later moved to Texas, where she obtained a Master of Divinity at Austin Presbyterian Theological Seminary and became active in the district chapter of the denomination.
 
In April of this year, Kaiser revealed at a district meeting that she was involved in a lesbian relationship. She has since traveled to Maryland to “wed” her partner Annanda Barclay.

Following the initial meeting, the district committee voted 6-2 to allow her candidacy to proceed, but this summer, a church board recommended that it she be removed from the list. The United Methodist Book of Discipline prohibits “self-avowed practicing homosexuals” from becoming ordained as ministers in the denomination.
 
Kaiser’s pastor, John Elford, then made a motion to reinstate her candidacy, but was rejected. Elford continued pressing the matter, stating that Kaiser had not been fully evaluated as required by the denomination.
 
Southwest Texas Conference Bishop James A. Dorff originally ruled the issue as moot, but the matter was sent back to him this fall for response. On Thursday, Dorff reinstated Kaiser’s candidacy, agreeing with Elford that she had not been fully examined.

“The Austin District Committee, following BOD (Book of Discipline) processes, certified Ms. Kaiser and recommended her to the Board of Ordained Ministry for Commissioning,” he wrote. “It then became the board’s responsibility to fully examine her fitness for ministry, including written materials and interview …  This was not done in this case. ”
 
“The Board of Ordained Ministry rendered a judgment but did not follow the process,” Dorff stated. “Therefore, the candidate is entitled to full examination by the Board.”
 
Kaiser issued a statement following the decision expressing her approval of her reinstatement.
 
“I find hope in the fact that this wrong is being corrected and I am eager to continue on this relational, Spirit driven process with the Board,” she wrote. “I rely on the voice of the Holy Spirit to illuminate my understanding of faith, my call, and my place in The United Methodist Church.”
 
Reaction to Kaiser’s reinstatement has been mixed.
 
“God bless the bishop! He made the right decision in allowing this faithful woman to continue her call to candidacy,” one commenter wrote. “I think this is a sign that the United Methodist church is changing and that the 15 conferences that voted for gay marriage are indeed making a difference.”
 
“No, No, No! She mustn’t be ordained,” another wrote. “The Bible, which is the Word of God, on which the church was founded and is itself the foundation of the Christian church, clearly forbids homosexuality. Period.”
 
Others noted that no woman is permitted to serve as a deacon according 1 Timothy 3:2-7.

http://christiannews.net/2013/12/16/texas-united-methodist-bishop-reinstates-lesbians-ordination-candidacy/
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« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2013, 06:16:15 am »

United Methodist Minister Who Officiated ‘Gay Wedding’ Refuses to Repent, Give Up Credentials

of course not...


Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.


A United Methodist minister from Pennsylvania is refusing to give up his credentials after he was ordered last month to repent of officiating same-sex ‘weddings’ within 30 days or relinquish his rights to pastor within the denomination.
 
As previously reported, Frank Schaefer, 51, who oversees Zion United Methodist Church of Iona in Lebanon, was found guilty on in November of “conducting a ceremony that celebrates same-sex unions” and “disobedience to order and discipline of the Methodist Church.” In 2007, he traveled to Massachusetts to officiate a ceremony between his son Tim and Tim’s homosexual partner.
 
The United Methodist Book of Discipline outlines that “the practice of homosexuality is incompatible with Christian teaching” and that “self-avowed practicing homosexuals” may not be ordained as ministers in the denomination. It also forbids ministers from hosting or participating in “ceremonies that celebrate homosexual unions.”
 
Schaefer said that the knew what he was doing was against church law, but chose to proceed with the ceremony anyway.

 “The love for my son took over the fear of losing my job with the United Methodist Church,” Schaefer told the Lebanon Daily News. “It was a tough decision in some sense, but I just knew I had to make it. I had to follow my heart.”
 
However, some in Schaefer’s church was not so supportive when they learned that their shepherd had officiated over the ceremony. One member, Jon Boger, filed a complaint with the Eastern Pennsylvania Conference just before the statute of limitations ran out, and Schaefer was ordered to stand trial.
 
Last month, Schaefer told a jury of thirteen United Methodist ministers that he would continue to advocate for homosexuality and wore a rainbow stole as a sign of his support.

“I cannot go back to being silent,” he said. “I am now an advocate for LGBT people in the world and in the Church.”
 
At the end of the three-day trial, Schaefer was found guilty and given the ultimatum of repenting of his actions within 30 days or turning in his credentials.
 
But on Monday, at a press conference at Arch Street United Methodist Church in Philadelphia, Schaefer told those gathered that he will not be relinquishing his ministerial license voluntarily. Approximately 50 others, including fellow United Methodist ministers, stood with Schaefer in solidarity.
 
“I cannot voluntarily surrender my credentials because I am a voice now for many of the tens of thousands of LGBT members in our church,” he stated. ”I have received hundreds of petitions from LGBT members, colleagues, and even three bishops, not to surrender my credentials.”
 
“I just can’t surrender my credentials,” he continued. “I know it sounds rebellious, but it isn’t. I have to do what God wants me to do.”
 
But some have stated that supporting sexual behavior between those of the same gender is not what God wants from Shaefer—or any pastor.
 
“His work against the Word of God is something that will haunt him all the days of his life,” one commenter wrote. “Unfortunately if he is not defrocked, he will be a stumbling block to those he ministers to, because he’s leading the sheep down the wrong path to destruction.”
 
Shaefer is scheduled to meet with Church officials on Thursday. He states that he is unsure of his fate, but notes that he has received invitations from the United Church of Christ and the Episcopal Church to join their denomination if defrocked.

http://christiannews.net/2013/12/17/united-methodist-minister-who-officiated-gay-wedding-refuses-to-repent-give-up-credentials/
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« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2013, 02:05:06 pm »

Christian Pastor Defrocked After Officiating Gay Son’s Wedding

A pastor from central Pennsylvania was defrocked by United Methodist church officials on Thursday after officiating his son’s gay wedding — an action that ran counter to the denomination’s central beliefs.
 
As TheBlaze previously reported, Rev. Frank Schaefer of Lebanon, Pa., had already been suspended when he met with church officials to determine whether he would continue as a pastor.
 
Schaefer had presided over his son’s wedding in 2007 in Massachusetts, where gay marriage is legal. While Methodist regulations allow for gays and lesbians to join, homosexuality itself is seen as being “incompatible with Christian teaching.”

The pastor had been told to resign from the clergy by Thursday if he could not follow the denomination’s Book of Discipline.
 
But Schaefer, unwilling to stand down, has said the book discriminates against gay people and vowed this week that he would not voluntarily surrender his credentials.
 
In the end, though, the decision was out of his hands, as spokesman John Coleman said that officials decided to defrock him. According to the Philadelphia Inquirer, the meeting with church officials only lasted 15 minutes.
 
There was no indication that a different resolution would be met, as earlier this week, Schaefer publicly said he would defy the religious order to surrender his credentials for performing the same-sex wedding.
 
“I am actively committing to having those discriminatory laws changed and banished from our Book of Discipline,” Schaefer said. “That’s the only way I can reconcile being a United Methodist at this point.”

Jurors who convicted Schaefer in a church trial last month — which resulted in a 30-day suspension — said he should use the time off to decide whether he could follow church doctrine. If he couldn’t do so, he was told to step down.
 
Schaefer gave his answer publicly Monday during a news conference at Arch Street United Methodist Church in Philadelphia, surrounded by dozens of sympathetic ministers and laity.
 
“I cannot voluntarily surrender my credentials because I am a voice now for many — for tens of thousands — of LGBT members in our church,” he said then.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/12/19/christian-pastor-defrocked-after-officiating-gay-sons-wedding/
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« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2013, 06:20:57 am »

Surprise, we believe the Bible: Methodist pastor punished
maybe you should read the Bible before making that statement.

1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;


Just saying...


United Methodist officials have followed church doctrine and church law in dealing with an errant pastor.

Frank Schaefer, who pastors a church in Pennsylvania, pastors it no more. He was brought to trial and convicted of officiating at his son's same-gender "marriage" ceremony in Massachusetts where such weddings are legal. He was given 30 days to repent and conform to church doctrine but declined and has now been defrocked.
 
John Lomperis, with the Institute on Religion and Democracy, spoke to OneNewsNow about the pastor's defrocking.
 
"The thing that we've been dealing with is there's this pattern of activists effusively expressing a lot of phony surprise each step of the way in hopes of intimidating church officials to not do the right thing," Lomperis warns. "The Bible's very clear on the matter but they express outrage that a Christian church would enact a policy forbidding the blessing of sexual sin."
 
The United Methodist Book of Discipline is very clear in that it forbids ministers to bless same-sex unions.
 
Lomperis says activists "seem to be shocked that its terms would be followed with integrity" in dealing with Schaeffer.
 
"The fact of the matter," says the IRD spokesman, "is that the source of so many of our problems in the United Methodist Church is all these people who get ordained, and when they are asked at their ordination do you believe in our doctrine they basically say yes while crossing their fingers behind their back."
 
Lomperis suggests all denominations might want to consider "more carefully screening would-be pastors for their biblical groundedness and their moral character," and have more effective accountability for them.

 - See more at: http://www.onenewsnow.com/church/2013/12/19/surprise-we-believe-the-bible-methodist-pastor-punished#sthash.zZfC7LNI.dpuf
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« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2013, 07:00:01 am »

Defrocked United Methodist Church Pastor Joins Pro-Gay Church in DC

A former Pennsylvania United Methodist Church pastor who was defrocked for not accepting the denomination's ban on officiating gay weddings has joined a pro-gay congregation in Washington, D.C.

Frank Schaefer, who was suspended by the UMC for officiating his gay son's same-sex wedding, recently joined Foundry UMC and preached a sermon there Sunday.

Dean Snyder, senior pastor at Foundry, told The Christian Post about how Schaefer became a member of his congregation.

"Pastors' church membership resides in the annual conference they belong to. When a minister's credentials are taken away he or she no longer is a member of the conference," said Snyder.

"We invited Frank to join Foundry so that he could remain a United Methodist and have a loving and supportive church home."

Snyder, whose church averages about 600 in weekly attendance, also told CP about future involvement that Schaefer will have at Foundry's pulpit.

rest: http://www.christianpost.com/news/defrocked-united-methodist-church-pastor-joins-pro-gay-church-in-dc-111544/

of course he did, im sure here with in a year we will hear of his divorce from his wife and his marriage to some other sodomite.
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« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2013, 09:53:41 am »

I read a book by one of these wolves back in 2006(when I first moved back to North Texas) by the name of Phillip Yancey - I read it b/c someone recommended it to me.

Apparently Yancey was one of the members of the "religious right" awhile back until one of those members "came out of the closet"(forgot his name, but he runs a pro-sodomy ministry in North Texas now - and this is also the same guy who has ghostwritten a number of "Christian" books for people like Billy Graham and Jerry Falwell). This was when Yancey started acting like we Christians needed to show "compassion" to sodomites, and even started his own sodomite church. He also said how when he first stuck by this guy, he marched in one of those "gay pride" parades with him out of curiosity, and that's when he got on the bandwagon.

Pt being that enemies have infiltrated the church from WITHIN like this - all of this has been by design. First that guy I mentioned in the above para "came out of the closet", then he caused a division, then one of the more "prominent evangelists" sides with him and the reactions are indifferent, and slowly but surely everyone will get on the dark side's bandwagon.

FYI, Yancey also promotes Catholicism teachings.

Same with what went on with this "pastor" and Methodist church - a church split likely happened, and it will likely go down the same path.
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« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2014, 06:12:46 am »

Mennonite Church USA Ordains First Openly Homosexual ‘Pastor’

Mennonite Church USA has ordained its first openly homosexual pastor, reports state.
 
According to Mennonite World Review, the Mountain States Conference, a division of the Mennonite Church USA, has approved the ministerial license of a Colorado woman who identifies as a lesbian.
 
Theda Good, who is in a relationship with another woman, began serving with First Mennonite Church of Denver in 2012, and has a master’s degree from Eastern Mennonite University in Virginia. Her church submitted a letter requesting her licensure last year, and the Conference has been reviewing the matter over a period of many months.
 
A series of meetings have been held to discuss the request, including with Good and members of her church.

 “Much of the work centered around the consideration of a person whose gifts and call to ministry are clearly affirmed, yet is in a committed same-sex relationship, which varies from denominational statements,” the Conference outlined in a press release.
 
On November 24th, the Ministerial Council met for the second time with Good and agreed to accept her request for ordination. The matter then moved to the Leadership Board on December 1st, who agreed unanimously to ordain Good.
 
She will receive her license on February 2nd to serve as Pastor of Nurture and Fellowship at First Mennonite Church of Denver.

The Mountain States Conference has acknowledged that the decision to ordain Good is controversial.
 
“It is the desire of the Leadership Board to function and communicate with a spirit of deep humility, joyfully acknowledging the work of God in our midst, and with a sense of sadness recognizing the pain that this causes some of the sisters and brothers that we love in Mennonite Church USA,” it wrote.
 
Reaction to the matter has been mixed.
 
“I applaud the Mountain States Mennonite Conference for choosing grace over law; for affirming common humanity over the perception of sexuality,” one commenter wrote. “Grace is where love is free to happen. And where there is love, there is God. Because God happens when love happens.”
 
“If you really loved everyone in the Mennonite Church then you would not be doing what you are doing,” another stated. “Because of your actions you will be bringing a curtain of darkness and shame to the entire Mennonite Church. I feel that you have embarked upon a slippery slope that will only bring pain, confusion, heartache, and disunity. I pray that God will not treat the Mennonite Church like he treated Sodom and Gomorrah.”

http://christiannews.net/2014/01/02/mennonite-church-usa-ordains-first-openly-homosexual-pastor/?utm
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« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2014, 10:11:10 am »

Pretty soon all of these so-called "denominations" like the SBC, Lutherans, Methodists, etc will have their first sodomite Presidents.
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« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2014, 05:19:58 am »

Retired United Methodist Minister Faces Church Trial for Officiating Son’s Same-Sex ‘Wedding’

 A retired United Methodist minister and former Yale Divinity School Dean is set to face a church trial in March for officiating his son’s same-sex “wedding” in 2012.

Thomas Ogletree, 80, will stand trial on March 12 at First United Methodist Church of Stanford following complaints filed by fellow clergy who accuse him of violating church doctrine.

“I could not with any integrity as a Christian refuse my son’s request to preside at his wedding,” he said in a statement this week. “It is a shame that the church is choosing to prosecute me for this act of love, which is entirely in keeping with my ordination vows to ‘seek peace, justice, and freedom for all people’ and with Methodism’s historic commitment to inclusive ministry embodied in its slogan ‘open hearts, open minds, open doors.’”

Ogletree is formerly an elder with the New York Conference of the United Methodist Church, which has reportedly passed resolutions expressing support for same-sex “marriage.” However, officials state that regardless of the conference’s stance, Ogletree’s actions violated the United Methodist Book of Discipline.

The United Methodist Book of Discipline outlines that “the practice of homosexuality is incompatible with Christian teaching” and that “self-avowed practicing homosexuals” may not be ordained as ministers in the denomination. It also forbids ministers from hosting or participating in “ceremonies that celebrate homosexual unions.”

Ogletree is one of three United Methodist ministers–all from New York–who will be facing church trials this year for violating the Book of Discipline. Stephen Heiss of Binghamton is likewise accused of officiating same-sex ceremonies, and Sara Thompson Tweedy of White Plains is charged with coming out as an avowed and practicing lesbian.

“The Bible has some wonderful parts to it, but they’re dated, and right now it’s time to quit asking gay people to sit at the back of the bus,” Heiss told reporters last year.

Resolutions have been passed during several regional conferences that likewise challenge the Book of Discipline in regard to homosexuality. In 2012, a number of conference attendees expressed support for a declaration entitled the “Statement of Gospel Obedience,” which asserts that the United Methodist Book of Discipline is wrong to denounce homosexual behavior.

But in an article entitled Why Many Methodists Still Oppose Same-Sex Marriage, John Lemperis, the Director of the UM Action program of the Institute on Religion and Democracy, said that the Bible is crystal clear on the matter.

“Even liberal Biblical scholars now agree that the Old and New Testaments are very clear in their moral disapproval of homosexual practice,” he wrote. “More fundamentally, Scripture paints a beautiful picture of marriage as a holy covenant of intensely intimate, self-giving community between man and woman, uniting the two most basic, equal categories of humanity.”

“We submit to Jesus as Lord,” Lemperis stated. “If He is truly Lord, then no area of our lives can be off-limits to Him. Jesus spoke strongly about the centrality of self-denial in following Him, which often means dramatic personal sacrifices, including not acting on powerful desires for things outside of God’s best for us. … Jesus and new life in Him are more than worth it.”

Ogletree’s trial follows last year’s high-profile hearing in Pennsylvania involving Frank Schaefer of Zion United Methodist Church of Iona. As previously reported, Schaefer had been found guilty of violating church law and was given 30 days to repent of officiating his son’s “wedding,” but as three of his four children are homosexual, he refused. As he would not voluntarily surrender his credentials, he was defrocked and has reportedly since joined an assembly in Washington, D.C.

http://christiannews.net/2014/01/18/retired-united-methodist-minister-faces-church-trial-for-officiating-sons-same-sex-wedding/
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« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2014, 06:08:33 am »

Young Evangelicals and Same-Sex Marriage

 Dr. Rosaria Butterfield has an amazing story to tell—and it’s her story. A former lesbian feminist professor, she started studying Christianity in order to debunk it—but ended up embracing it.

Today, she’s a dedicated Christian apologist, wife, and mother, with two books about the faith to her credit. Although some Christians will struggle with same-sex attraction their whole lives, she, in God’s grace, was able to leave it behind.

So it’s not surprising that Wheaton College, one of the nation’s premier Christian colleges, invited Dr. Butterfield to tell her story at a chapel service.

But some 100 students protested the chapel and what they called Dr. Butterfield’s “dangerous” message—a message that would only tell one side of the same-sex story.

They held signs saying things like “Rosaria’s story is valid, mine is too,” and “I’m gay and a beloved child of God. That’s my story.”

Dr. Butterfield graciously met and talked with these demonstrators later. “I know too well the world these students inhabit,” she wrote, recalling how she herself had once participated in similar activism.

So is this another one of those “young Christian millennials are abandoning traditional morality” stories that it’s been made out to be? Not by a long shot. As Manhattan Declaration Director Eric Teetsel pointed out at the Federalist, while 100 protesters got the attention, “2,000 millennial evangelicals” inside the chapel “didn’t protest her message . . . they gave her a standing ovation.”

One of the most common cultural narratives being foisted upon us is that young people, especially evangelical young people, are giving up on traditional understandings of sexuality and marriage; and yes evidence shows that many have. But this narrative tries to portray a certain inevitability about the end of traditional sexual morality.

Folks, I have to tell you, as I travel and speak at colleges and universities all over the country, I see hundreds and thousands of young Christians who still hold to traditional views of sexuality and marriage. And many others who haven’t yet made up their minds.

I’m not alone. Eric Teetsel described his experience speaking at the Jubilee conference in Pittsburgh: “I was speaking on the meaning and purpose of marriage,” he wrote, “and there were many other sessions with speakers far more famous than I, yet they came flowing in. When they ran out of chairs some went out and found more. When there were no more, they sat on the floor and stood in the back.”

Eric wrote ironically, "Don't these young people know they aren't supposed to exist?" But they do, and “they wanted to know how to make a case for marriage.”

We have to help them make that case. As sociologist Christian Smith points out, if a student can’t articulate what he believes to be true, then it’s very tedious and fragile.

I’ve seen this first-hand working with Summit Ministries. When students can articulate their beliefs, their confidence grows. This is especially true of the pro-life movement. When young people learn how to articulate a defense for the unborn, like thousands do at Summit and Students for Life conferences, they’re unbelievable. They’ll defend life on the plane on the way home; they’ll start campus groups; they’ll do sidewalk counseling; and they’ll start incredibly innovative organizations like the Live Action network or Save the Storks.

Not only must the Church help people understand why they believe what they believe, we have to equip them to be able to articulate what they believe in the public square.

That narrative, that we’re losing young people on issues of human sexuality, will only continue if we allow it to. It will continue if we fail to tell stories like that of Rosaria Butterfield, the 2,000 young Christians who applauded her, and the students who flocked to Pittsburgh to learn how to defend marriage.

http://www.christianheadlines.com/columnists/breakpoint/young-evangelicals-and-same-sex-marriage.html
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« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2014, 12:11:46 pm »

Quote
One of the most common cultural narratives being foisted upon us is that young people, especially evangelical young people, are giving up on traditional understandings of sexuality and marriage; and yes evidence shows that many have. But this narrative tries to portray a certain inevitability about the end of traditional sexual morality.

Quote
That narrative, that we’re losing young people on issues of human sexuality, will only continue if we allow it to. It will continue if we fail to tell stories like that of Rosaria Butterfield, the 2,000 young Christians who applauded her, and the students who flocked to Pittsburgh to learn how to defend marriage.

The NIV being put out in the market in 1978 was all but the final nail in the coffin - while Baby Boomers(who were giving birth and raising the current Millenials we see presently) may have held to their "conservative" beliefs, nonetheless they no longer had the proper sword to train up their children.

IOW, just get back to the word, the King James Bible. And flee those Babel church buildings.
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« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2014, 12:43:41 pm »

Quote
That narrative, that we’re losing young people on issues of human sexuality, will only continue if we allow it to.

Uh, you might want to check prophecy. It WILL continue and man cannot stop it. That is the whole point of Jesus having to return as He will. Man thinking he can stop what is happening to the world is deluded by the false works doctrine of churchianity.

Individuals will be saved, yes, thank you Jesus, but the world is done for and the heathens in it, no saving it because God says it will not be saved.
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« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2014, 05:15:27 pm »

Retired Dallas Methodist pastor says he’ll perform same-sex marriages
http://www.dallasnews.com/news/religion/20140121-retired-dallas-methodist-pastor-says-hell-perform-same-sex-marriages.ece

After 53 years together, Dallas gay couple to wed
http://www.dallasnews.com/news/metro/20140226-after-53-years-together-dallas-gay-couple-to-wed.ece?nclick_check=1
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« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2014, 05:30:43 am »

Transgender Priest Dismissed from Arkansas Church

The Episcopal Diocese of Arkansas has dismissed a priest who recently revealed he is transgender. Reverend Greg Fry was born a man but told members she will now live life as a woman. Fry now wants to be called Gwen.

http://www.trunews.com/transgender-priest-dismissed-arkansas-church/
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« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2014, 12:02:19 pm »

Transgender Priest Dismissed from Arkansas Church

The Episcopal Diocese of Arkansas has dismissed a priest who recently revealed he is transgender. Reverend Greg Fry was born a man but told members she will now live life as a woman. Fry now wants to be called Gwen.

http://www.trunews.com/transgender-priest-dismissed-arkansas-church/

Been in an Episcopal church a couple of times in my life(the last time being in 2008) - the atmosphere is INCREDIBLY weird, to say the least!

With that being said - never would have imagined society in these "churches" would come to an all-time low like THIS.
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« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2014, 07:48:20 pm »

http://news.msn.com/us/church-drops-case-against-ny-pastor-who-performed-sons-gay-wedding
Church drops case against NY pastor who performed son's gay wedding
3/10/14

NEW YORK (Reuters) - The United Methodist Church announced on Monday it was dropping its case against a New York clergyman accused of defying church policy by officiating at his son's same-sex wedding.

The church said a trial over the actions of the Rev. Thomas Ogletree, a former dean at Yale University's divinity school, could cause "harmful polarization" during the ongoing debate over the church's stance on gay unions.

The move came three months after a Pennsylvania pastor was defrocked after a church judicial proceeding found him guilty of officiating at his son's same-sex wedding. Instead of facing trial, Ogletree will participate in a series of conversations about the church's policy toward homosexual unions, a church official said.

"Church trials produce no winners," Bishop Martin McLee, the leader of the church's New York Annual Conference, said in a statement.

"Church trials result in harmful polarization and continue the harm brought upon our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters," the bishop wrote.

Methodist doctrine welcomes congregants regardless of sexual orientation but maintains that homosexuality is "incompatible with Christian teachings." Under church policy, same-sex marriages cannot be performed in Methodist churches or by ordained ministers.

But like other mainstream Protestant denominations, the church faced increasing pressure to amend its stance on same-sex couples. Over the past three years, advocates have urged Methodist clergy to defy church policy and conduct gay weddings as a sign of protest.

Ogletree said he could not refuse when asked to officiate at his son's 2012 wedding to another man in New York, a state that recognizes gay nuptials. A fellow Methodist clergyman saw the wedding announcement in a newspaper and filed a complaint against Ogletree.

"It is a shame that the church is choosing to prosecute me for this act of love, which is entirely in keeping with my ordination vows … and with Methodism's historic commitment to inclusive ministry embodied in its slogan 'open hearts, open minds, open doors,'" Ogletree said in a statement in January.

Ogletree, a noted scholar on Christian ethics and a member of the clergy for 60 years, said he was relinquishing his right to a trial and had accepted the resolution agreement and its "intention to ...offer a process of theological, spiritual and ecclesiastical reflection."

The United Methodist Church is the second-largest Protestant group in the U.S. after the Southern Baptist Convention. It has about 12.5 million members worldwide.

(Editing by Barbara Goldberg and Amanda Kwan)
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« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2014, 03:18:05 pm »

OK, pretty much this whole "culture wars" script since 1980 has played out the way it's shown in this interview.

First off, the guy CNN's Anderson Cooper is interviewing is Southern Baptist Convention President Fred Luter - I've seen this guy preach when I lived in New Orleans(he came to my previous "church" months after Katrina) - he preached how Christians were under a "Job test" during that time(which was pure nonsense), and he's also a member of the local RCC's Archdiocese's interfaith group.

Anyhow - Luter first went on Rick Wiles' "Christian" radio show(I put this in quotes, b/c Wiles is a Catholic in Christian's clothing, as his show is disguised as just that), and responded to Wiles how he pretty much agreed that those North Korean threats were put there b/c of all the sodomy going on in America. Then when he went on CNN's Cooper, he DENIED he made these comments DESPITE Cooper exposing him doing so.(as shown in the 7 minute clip in this link) And then that's when he started changing his story to comparing America to Sodom and Gomorrah. No, nothing wrong with it here, but it was HOW it was played out(saying one thing, denying it, then changing it to another when "confronted" about it) - a double mind man is unstable in all of his ways.

Ultimately, it ends up polarizing the masses further b/c the debate goes from "Either you're on this side of the fence or the other side of the fence" to..."The liberal media is at it again demonizing conservatives and Christians" vs "Those Christians are delusional"...

Pt I'm trying to make here is that all of this has been by design since 1980 to polarize the masses further and further with this issue, and then at a certain point(like we're seeing now), when everyone is worn out and ready to throw in the towel, slowly but surely merge everyone to at least some kind of compromise.

Also - notice what Luter says at the end of the interview - he all but admits how once SSM is the law of the land, churches will be forced to abide by it(and he didn't seem to have any concerns when saying it).

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2013/04/03/same-sex-marriage-blamed-for-problems/
7 minute video-interview: Same-sex marriage blamed for problems
4/3/13
10:35 PM ET

Anderson Cooper asks Pastor Fred Luter, president of the Southern Baptist Convention, why he linked nuclear threats from North Korea with the debates in the U.S. over same-sex marriage and gays in the Boy Scouts.

He was answering a question posed by a Christian radio host about whether God was punishing Americans for their "slide into immorality." He said, in part, "I don't think it's just a coincidence."

In his interview with Anderson, Pastor Luter clarified his comments and spoke about what he sees as the problem with trying to redefine marriage. Watch the video for more on their conversation.
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« Reply #25 on: March 24, 2014, 11:56:38 pm »

http://news.yahoo.com/major-christian-charity-lifts-same-sex-marriage-ban-203900472.html
3/24/14
A Major Christian Charity Lifts Its Same-Sex Marriage Ban for Employees

World Vision, one of America's largest Christian charities, just made a small but important tweak to its employee handbook: it changed its definition of marriage. Like many religious non-profits, World Vision U.S. can privilege people with certain beliefs in their hiring practices. Until recently, one of those conditions of employment prohibited employees from engaging in sexual activity outside of a heterosexual marriage. Now, the charity's definition of marriage includes same-sex couples too. World Vision U.S.'s president Richard Stearns told Christianity Today that his charity hopes the change (which still prohibits sex outside of marriage) will become "symbolic not of compromise but of [Christian] unity." As of now, anyone "in a same-sex marriage who is a professed believer in Jesus Christ" is eligible for for employment there. World Vision U.S. is based in Washington State, where same-sex marriage is legal.

Although Stearns hopes that other Christian organizations will follow his example, World Vision has a history of choosing to sit out, rather than take sides, on controversial issues facing the different denominations who work with the charity. That context is important when looking at the World Vision leader's longer statement to CT: "It's easy to read a lot more into this decision than is really there...This is not an endorsement of same-sex marriage," Stearns cautioned, adding:

"We have decided we are not going to get into that debate. Nor is this a rejection of traditional marriage, which we affirm and support. We're not caving to some kind of pressure. We're not on some slippery slope. There is no lawsuit threatening us. There is no employee group lobbying us." 

This statement will be tricky to swallow for some LGBT groups working for same-sex marriage equality state-by-state — it kind of reads like Pontius Pilate, washing his hands, in a certain light. Plus, as CT notes, World Vision has a history of working against government-based anti-discrimination regulations. The charity successfully fought in federal court for the right to hire only Christians, for instance, in a case that had the potential to be the Hobby Lobby case of hiring limitations for religious organizations. And it's opposed efforts in the international aid world to prohibit discrimination against LGBT individuals in the workplace.

All this is true. But it's still important, even outside of the world of Christian organizations currently contending with religious divisions on social issues. When Stearns denies caving to pressure, he's also complicating a common narrative among (often conservative Christian) anti-LGBT activists: that those in the "mainstream" who endorse equality rights are giving in to those who are trying to "force" a pro-LGBT agenda on the American public. It's a false narrative, but as even traditionally red states find their same sex marriage bans overturned in federal courts, it's picking up traction again by those who feel threatened when two people love each other without their approval. And Stearns's mild statement indicating that his organization would accept married employees in same-sex relationships has already ruffled feathers among those who want a harder line.

Stearns said that his policy is meant to move his organization to neutral ground on the debate, as his charity does not set theological policy for American Christians. But the new policy's simple acknowledgement that LGBT individuals can be Christ-believing wives and husbands will not be seen as neutral for some who support the charity's work. For better or for worse, it's a sure thing that other Christian organizations will be watching World Vision as it rolls out this change.
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« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2014, 05:59:03 pm »

 Roll Eyes

http://www.christianpost.com/news/world-vision-reverses-decision-on-gay-married-employees-we-made-a-mistake-116871/
World Vision Reverses Decision on Gay Married Employees: We Made a Mistake
3/26/14

After days of backlash from Evangelicals, World Vision, an international nonprofit ministry, has reversed its decision to allow those in same-sex marriages to be employed.

"Today, the World Vision U.S. board publicly reversed its recent decision to change our national employment conduct policy," the Christian humanitarian organization said in a letter to supporters Wednesday. "The board acknowledged they made a mistake and chose to revert to our longstanding conduct policy requiring sexual abstinence for all single employees and faithfulness within the Biblical covenant of marriage between a man and a woman."

World Vision has come under heavy criticism since it made public on Monday its policy change. In a letter to its employees that was shared with The Christian Post on Monday, World Vision President Richard Stearns announced that while the organization is not endorsing same-sex marriage, it recognizes that its staff is comprised of believers from more than 50 denominations, some of which have sanctioned same-sex marriage. Thus, its board has decided to defer the issue to local churches, in its effort to "treat all of our employees equally."

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« Reply #27 on: April 20, 2014, 08:46:26 pm »

Baylor Univ advertises themselves as a "Christian" university, FYI(and some of their graduates have gotten prominent positions)...

http://www.webpronews.com/brittney-griner-says-baylor-kept-her-in-the-closet-in-new-book-2014-04
Brittney Griner Says Baylor Kept Her in the Closet in New Book
4/20/14

While Baylor University certainly enjoyed Brittney Griner’s talents on the court, the former player claims that officials at the university told her to keep her sexual orientation a secret. Griner, who is now openly gay, wrote about her experience at Baylor in her new book In My Skin.

Baylor University is a private Baptist college in Waco, Texas. Griner played for Baylor from 2009-2013. To say that Griner, who stands at 6’8″ and has an 88″ wing span, was a standout at Baylor would be putting it lightly. Griner led her team to an NCAA Championship in 2012 and was named the AP Division I Player of the Year and the NCAA Final Four Most Outstanding Player in the same year. Griner is so good, in fact, that one NBA team didn’t rule out drafting her.

While Griner’s efforts on the court were appreciated, she says in her book that she was encouraged to hide her homosexuality while playing for Baylor. Baylor women’s basketball Coach Kim Mulkey is one person Brittney Griner mentioned that told her to keep her homosexuality to herself. In addition to telling the star player to watch what she posted on Twitter, Griner says that Mulkey also told her to keep “her business quiet.”

Since Baylor is both a Christian university and includes the following in their Statement on Human Sexuality, it’s no surprise that Griner’s sexuality was an issue.

Baylor University welcomes all students into a safe and supportive environment in which to discuss and learn about a variety of issues, including those of human sexuality. The University affirms the biblical understanding of sexuality as a gift from God. Christian churches across the ages and around the world have affirmed purity in singleness and fidelity in marriage between a man and a woman as the biblical norm. Temptations to deviate from this norm include both heterosexual sex outside of marriage and homosexual behavior. It is thus expected that Baylor students will not participate in advocacy groups which promote understandings of sexuality that are contrary to biblical teaching.

Even though the school makes it crystal clear where they stand on same-sex relationships, the fact that Griner’s coach and others knew about her sexuality and tried to hide it so they could utilize her talents was frustrating for the young star.

“The more I think about it, the more I feel like the people who run the school want it both ways: they want to keep the policy, so they can keep selling themselves as a Christian university, but they are more than happy to benefit from the success of their gay athletes,” Griner said in her book. “That is, as long as those gay athletes don’t talk about being gay.”


After staying quiet about her sexual orientation for four years, Griner came out to the public in April of 2013, right after being selected number one in the WNBA Draft.

And, after being told to watch what she posted online all those years, Griner has since become very open about her sexuality on Twitter:

Despite having to hide her sexuality for so long, Brittney Griner doesn’t have any ill feelings towards Mulkey or Baylor University. Griner says she wouldn’t change her decision to attend Baylor, even with the knowledge that she would have to conceal her homosexuality. Even though Griner loves her university, she doesn’t see herself becoming an ambassador anytime soon, though.

“I would love to be an ambassador for Baylor, to show my school pride, but it’s hard to do that,” Griner said. “I’ve spent too much of my life being made to feel like there’s something wrong with me. And no matter how much support I felt as a basketball player at Baylor, it still doesn’t erase all the pain I felt there.”

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« Reply #28 on: April 21, 2014, 04:11:00 am »

Minister Claims He Received ‘Strong Nudge from Jesus’ to Announce Support for Homosexuality

A Vineyard minister in Michigan is claiming that he received a ‘strong nudge from Jesus’ a few years ago to announce his changing views on homosexuality—a topic that he is now discussing in a new book about embracing homosexuals in the Church.

“It’s about welcoming previously excluded groups,” Ken Wilson Vineyard Church of Ann Arbor recently told the Detroit Free Press. “That’s what it means to be evangelical—to make the good news accessible to those who haven’t had access to it. That’s my task. That’s what a church is supposed to do.”

Wilson, 62, states that he had opposed homosexuality for much of his life, including when he launched the church in the 1970′s. However, with the turn of the century, his views began to change as he discussed the matter with members whose family members were homosexual.

Wilson claims that in 2011, God told him to write a letter to his congregation to explain that he was rethinking his position on homosexuality.

“I got a strong nudge from Jesus,” he asserted.

Last month, Wilson released A Letter to my Congregation: An Evangelical Pastor’s Path to Embracing People who are Gay, Lesbian, and Transgender Into the Company of Jesus. He told the Detroit Free Press that while he ”take[ s] the Bible very seriously,” he does not believe that it prohibits sexual relations between those of the same gender.

“There’s no real indication monogamous, gay partnerships were the aim of the Biblical texts, but there were some very clearly examples of exploitative same-sex sexuality, like temple prostitution or slave sex, masters requiring slaves to perform sexual services as part of their ownership of them,” he stated. “The Sodom and Gomorrah story is about gang ****. It’s not about anything like loving monogamous relationships. To apply that to the issue of homosexuality is a gross misuse of Scripture.”

But Pastor Matt Trewhella of Mercy Seat Christian Church in Milwaukee, Wisconsin told Christian News Network that it is instead Wilson who is misusing Scripture.

“These have become tired old assertions trotted out by the pro-sodomy crowd,” he said. “Leviticus 20:13, which criminalizes homosexual acts in God’s law, is surrounded by verses which list other sexual sins, none of which have anything to do with temple prostitution, slave sex or gang ****. Of the many passages in the New Testament that condemn homosexual acts, not one of them mentions temple prostitution, or slave sex or gang ****. What is criminalized or condemned are homosexual acts themselves.”

Trewhella stated that it is “utter delusion” that Wilson received a “strong nudge from Jesus” to come out in support of homosexuality as Jesus, the Creator Himself, explained that the woman was made for the man.

“His ‘strong nudge’ contradicts everything the Bible has to say about marriage and homosexual acts, including Jesus Himself who declared in Mark 10:6-7, ‘But from the beginning of the creation, God made them male and female. For this reason, a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife,’” he outlined.

Wilson has lost a number of members over his stance, equating to a 12 percent drop in income. He says that his denomination is also unsupportive of his position.

http://christiannews.net/2014/04/20/minister-claims-he-received-strong-nudge-from-jesus-to-announce-support-for-homosexuality/
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« Reply #29 on: April 21, 2014, 07:18:51 am »

A Shameful Day in Evangelical Christian Publishing

For many years now, publishers have been releasing books that claim the Bible does not oppose committed homosexual relationships. That is nothing new. But it is a sad and shameful day when a major Christian publisher releases such a book and claims that it is a solid evangelical publication. This is abhorrent, disgraceful and terribly misleading. And it needs to be addressed and exposed.

But first, the background to the story.

In 2012, a young man named Matthew Vines, who professes to be a “gay Christian,” released a video of his talk about the Bible and homosexuality, and it quickly went viral. His demeanor was engaging and his appeal to the Scriptures very serious, but for those who know the Word well, there was nothing in the least bit persuasive in his presentation. In fact, it underscored just how impossible it is to use the Bible to justify any form of homosexual acts or to sanctify intimate homosexual relationships.

The impossibility of Matthew’s position was further emphasized when my colleague, the well-known apologist James White, put out a series of YouTube videos that thoroughly rebutted Vines’ video. And both White and I have offered to debate Matthew and any colleague he would choose, but to date, there has been no response, although we’re still hoping that a debate (or a series of debates) will take place.

There has also been a good amount of publicity over the last few months announcing the publication of Matthew’s book, God and the Gay Christian: The Biblical Case in Support of Same-Sex Relationships, which, through no intentional planning on my part or my publisher’s, is due to be released two weeks before my own book, Can You Be Gay and Christian? Responding With Love and Truth to Questions About Homosexuality. (I sincerely hope that readers of his book will take the time to read mine as well.)

But here is the disturbing news. The book is being published by Convergent Books, which is part of a publishing conglomerate that includes the much-respected evangelical publishing group WaterBrook Multnomah (also sharing some of the same staff). And the chief executive of the company, Stephen W. Cobb, is vigorously defending his choice to publish the book. In fact, he is making an extraordinary effort to publicize it and claiming that it is thoroughly evangelical.

Have we totally lost our bearings as the people of God? Are we now debating the undebatable and trying to sanction the unsanctionable?

The WaterBrook Multnomah group publishes books by authors like John Piper, Chuck Swindoll, Ravi Zacharias, David Jeremiah, Randy Alcorn, David Platt and Bill Gothard, and now its sister publisher is releasing a purported evangelical book defending homosexuality? (This is not being written on April 1 as some kind of April Fool’s joke. I am being dead serious.)

Responding to an investigative piece written by Christian attorney Matt Barber, Cobb explains that his company is publishing the book “because [they] believe it offers a thoughtful examination of Scripture on the topic of same-sex relationships from a bold, young, evangelical writer whose first calling is to promote a civil, loving, and biblically based conversation on the subject.”

What?

Certainly, the tone of the book is meant to be civil, and it does attempt to interact with the Scriptures, although, to emphasize this again, you can no more use the Bible to legitimize homosexual relationships than you can use it to legitimize adultery. But to describe the author as “a bold, young, evangelical writer” is to make the word evangelical utterly meaningless.

It would be like speaking of a fine, conservative Catholic author whose new book questioned the office of the pope, or of an excellent, Orthodox Jewish author whose latest volume explained how pork was kosher. It is just as laughable (or, really, lamentable) to speak of “a bold, young, evangelical writer” whose book attempts to make a biblical case for same-sex relationships. Talk about turning truth upside down.

To be sure, I personally own a large number of books written by professing “gay Christians,” including The Queer Bible Commentary and Holy Homosexuals, so I’m familiar with the arguments. And I’ve interacted face to face with professing “gay Christians,” most of whom seemed extremely sincere.

In fact, in my own book, I do my best to introduce readers to the very real, personal struggles experienced by people with same-sex attractions who want to follow Jesus, and it is something that has driven me to my knees in prayer, often with real brokenness and even tears of intercession for them.

The travesty here is for Cobb, the head of both WaterBrook Multnomah and Convergent (an imprint for “less traditional Christians,” which is quite an understatement), to choose to publish this book, then to defend that choice, then to present Matthew Vines as an evangelical, and then to go all out with a publicity campaign to promote the book. (Cobb writes, “We have extensive marketing and publicity campaigns in place, with which we hope to reach the widest possible readership.”)

As I note in my book, there are “no new textual, archeological, sociological, anthropological, or philological discoveries [that] have been made in the last fifty years that would cause us to read any of these biblical texts differently. Put another way, it is not that we have gained some new insights into what the biblical text means based on the study of the Hebrew and Greek texts. Instead, people’s interaction with the LGBT community has caused them to understand the biblical text differently.”

The point is that nothing has changed in terms of what Scripture teaches, which is why almost no one through the centuries has thought to use the Bible to sanction homosexual relationships—that is, until our day, and this is simply the fruit of the sexual revolution of the 1960s, not the fruit of dramatic new insights that would cause us to turn the Bible on its head.

And that’s why there are fine Christians today who still struggle with same-sex attractions but who renounce them as contrary to God’s plan and who live holy, separated lives, enjoying a full and robust relationship with the Lord without homosexual activities and same-sex romantic connections.

In short, those who want to revise biblical sexuality and morality have moved away from the Word of God, and if they have any sense of integrity, they need to renounce their claim to be evangelicals—and that includes Cobb, if he personally claims to be one—and say, “We are liberal Christians who no longer hold to the authority of Scripture, because of which we embrace homosexual relationships.”

In refusing to do so, they have muddied the waters of the faith, brought reproach on the gospel, further confused a very lost society, and become propagators of deception in the church. And they will answer to God for all this one day.

As things stand now, the same publishing conglomerate that released books by an evangelical author like Joshua Harris with titles and subtitles like I Kissed Dating Goodbye and Sexual Purity in a Lust-Saturated World is releasing a book championing the idea that God blesses two men (or women) having sex with each other as long as they are committed.

This is madness.

http://www.charismanews.com/opinion/in-the-line-of-fire/43537-a-shameful-day-in-evangelical-christian-publishing
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