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False Teachers teaching you can take the Mark and still get saved

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September 24, 2017, 10:45:16 pm Psalm 51:17 says: The specific rule pertaining to the national anthem is found on pages A62-63 of the league rulebook. It states: “The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem. “During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.”
September 20, 2017, 04:32:32 am Christian40 says: "The most popular Hepatitis B vaccine is nothing short of a witch’s brew including aluminum, formaldehyde, yeast, amino acids, and soy. Aluminum is a known neurotoxin that destroys cellular metabolism and function. Hundreds of studies link to the ravaging effects of aluminum. The other proteins and formaldehyde serve to activate the immune system and open up the blood-brain barrier. This is NOT a good thing."
http://www.naturalnews.com/2017-08-11-new-fda-approved-hepatitis-b-vaccine-found-to-increase-heart-attack-risk-by-700.html
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Exodus 20:5  Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
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Author Topic: False Teachers teaching you can take the Mark and still get saved  (Read 1780 times)
Mark
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« on: October 25, 2013, 07:23:39 am »

Since the ephesians511blog is no longer active here are some updates to this story

VIDEO: https://tinyurl.com/zwsjnwn

JOHN MACARTHUR

MAINSTREAMING PAGANISM IN THE CHURCH
 
 
PART 1

JOHN MACARTHUR & THE “MARK OF THE BEAST”

 
John MacArthur teaches that those who take the Mark of the Beast
during the Tribulation period can still be redeemed.

QUESTIONER: “Oh, my question is in regard to the latter half of the Tribulation period, when...when men will be required to have the mark of the beast in order to buy or sell. My question is once the person takes the mark, is there any possibility of Him coming to Christ?”

JOHN: “Yes, I think, you know, in the seven-year Tribulation coming in the future, we’re gonna get into this, so probably a week from Sunday night, maybe this Sunday night, maybe a week, I’m not sure. But the Tribulation is a seven-year period, right? The Rapture of the church, seven-year Tribulation, then Christ returns, sets up His Kingdom. Now, in that seven-year period, really two things happen. God begins to judge the world in...with a series of holocausts; and, at the same time, He begins to redeem His people Israel; and in the process of this, the antichrist establishes his rule; and in order to function in the economy of the antichrist, you have to take the mark of the beast. The mark being the number of a man, Revelation 13, 666. Six is the number of man, right? Seven is the number of perfection, and man always falls short of perfection, 666, always sixes, never seven. So the number of a man, and apparently what’s gonna happen, you take the mark on your hand or on your forehead; and we’ve talked a lot about that, you know, that...that that’s kind of the computer situation. We’re now moving fast toward the time when we’re going to have to do everything we do by cards and by numbers and all of that, and those number...the thing about a card that’s a problem is you lose it, and they’ve already devised systems to put the number on your hand and on your forehead, and you go through a scanner and, you know, that’s how you buy and sell. It’s automatically deducted from your bank account.

“Now, the question is, if you’re living in the Tribulation period, and you take this mark, in other words, you identify with the beast’s empire, will you still be able to be redeemed? And I think the answer to that is yes. Yes!  Otherwise there would be no salvation of anybody in the end of the Tribulation; and you’ve got to have the salvation of folks in the end of the Tribulation. You’re gonna have the Jews redeemed.  You’re gonna have, according to Revelation chapter 7, ‘An innumerable number of Gentiles redeemed, so many they can’t even be counted across the face of the earth.’  So I don’t think the fact that someone takes that is a sentence to, to permanency anymore than you being a part of this world system once in your life means you have to be a part of the system all your life. Well, especially when 144,000 don’t start their ministry till the second half.  That’d make it a little tough.”

 https://watch.pair.com/macarthur-1-mark-of-beast.html


UPDATED 10/16/2013 in the late PM
 John MacArthur OUTRAGE – Take Mark of Beast, still be saved
-The seduction of Satan speaking through "his" ministers of righteousness-
 

Watch video below



Revelation 13:15-17 – “And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
 
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
 
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
 
Revelation 14:9-11 – “And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
 
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of His indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
 
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.”
 
Revelation 19:20 – “And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.”
 
Revelation 20:4 – “And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.”
 
How many people will take the Mark of the Beast because of what John MacArthur, Jimmy DeYoung, and Brannon Howse said?
 



http://www.worldviewweekend.com/radio/audio/brannon-howse-aired-september-27-2013
 
http://media.worldviewweekend.com/sites/default/files_wvw.com/audio_legacy/157cc1575e2d4566a4bebbe1b8df10b234d380aa8b4403a55eec9ef48df6569b.mp3
 
UPDATE - The September 24, 1980 John MacArthur Audio

John MacArthur still has the September 24, 1980 recording and transcript on his website. We can find no refutation on the GTY.org website from John MacArthur and if there was a refutation, why would you leave that incredible statement up?
 
Since John MacArthur leaves the audio & transcript up on the GTY.org website for everyone to "learn" from, they still agree TODAY with what John MacArthur stated in 1980.
 
Go to time mark 15:15 on the Grace to You website to hear the question and John MacArthur’s response where he states you can still be saved after taking the Mark of the Beast -
 
http://webmedia.gty.org/sermons/High/1301-I.mp3
http://www.gty.org/resources/sermons/1301-I/



Further proof we in the church living in the days of apostasy don’t have a need for any man teach us. The Holy Spirit is our teacher, not apostate teachers or false teachers.
 

1 John 2:26-27 – “These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
 
27 But the anointing which ye have received of Him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in Him.”

http://ephesians511blog.blogspot.com/2013/10/john-macarthur-outrage-take-mark-of.html
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« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2013, 07:36:23 am »

And this one really hurts, apparently Chris Pinto is hopping onto this band wagon that you can Repent for taking the Mark. Nowhere in the Bible does this happen, in fact the opposite is true. If you take the Mark than you are done, you will go straight to HELL. During the Trib you will be a Tribulation Saint, that means you have to accept Jesus and NOT take the MARK OR Worship the Image of the BEAST.

If you do not take the Mark you will have your head chopped off, no way around this. This is how most of the Trib Saints will die. They will lose their heads and a chance to witness to the world.


Here is Chris's audio on this.

Quote
Friday, October 25, 2013 at 5:46AM
Today's Show: REPENTANCE FROM THE MARK OF THE BEAST?

In a special one hour show, Chris brings the discussion on the Mark of the Beast to a conclusion.  We learn more about how the "mark" was understood through the Middle Ages, as it was recognized in association with the Papal system of Rome.  Yet strangely enough, there were no discussions about whether or not a person could receive the mark, and then repent later on.  This was because the ability to repent seems to have been taken for granted.  But a shift took place in the 19th century, as the understanding of prophecy changed from the classical Historicist view (taught by the Reformers) to a Futurist view, which is embraced by most Evangelicals today.  How did the shift in exegesis change the understanding of the mark, and whether or not a person could repent if they received it? 
http://www.noiseofthunder.com/storage/NOTR_REPENT.MARK.BEAST_10.22.13.mp3


here is my response:

Quote
How can you say that people who take the Mark and Worship the image of the Beast can get saved? The Bible does not teach that at all. You are twisting scripture to fit an idea that does not exist. If you take the Mark you are done. The Bible clearly teaches that all who take the Mark and Worship the Image will be cast into the lake of fire. The Tribulation is a new dispensation, you have to accept Christ AND not take the Mark or Worship the Image.

The Bride is raptured BEFORE the Trib starts, so all hat will be left will be the Tribulation Saints. The Trib Saints have to accept Jesus and NOT take the mark. Its that simple, they will most likley LOOSE their Heads in the process. If you dont take the Mark you lose your head. This is the final choice for all those left on Earth during this time. If you dont take the Mark you get your head cut off. For a Tribulation Saint this is their ticket home. For an unbeliever, this is their final chance to choose a side.

You cant repent from this, if so than why put out that at all? Why would God say if you take the Mark you will die, and not mean it? You are teaching a false doctrine in the last times. Please think about what you are putting out by following false teachers like John McArthur who partners WITH the Roman Church and Mormons.

When i heard Brannon House hop on this false teaching i was hoping for sure that you would correct him, not jump into the boat also. If you take the Mark you will burn in the lake of fire for all eternity.

I really doubt that this will show on the Noise of Thunder web site. He is teaching a false doctrine, and being led by false teachers.
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« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2013, 07:45:00 am »

Whoever receives the mark of the beast and worships the beast, will "drink of the wine of the wrath of God . . . be tormented with fire and brimstone . . .for ever and ever" Revelation 14:9-11, 19:20


And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Rev. 14:9-11
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. Rev 19:20

What if someone received the Lord Jesus Christ as their personal Saviour during the tribulation and then receives the mark of the beast – will they also "be tormented with fire and brimstone . . .for ever and ever"

Yes. It looks that way. But remember. . .

The mark of the beast is received AFTER worshipping the antichrist or the beast. It’s not just receiving a mark – it’s worshipping Satan.

"If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark. . . " Rev. 14:9
". . . who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark. . . " Rev. 14:11

" . . .which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image." Rev. 16:2

" . . . them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. . ." Rev. 19:20

" . . . which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his . . ." Rev. 20:4

In order to NOT be, ". . . be tormented with fire and brimstone . . .for ever and ever . . ." you can NOT receive the mark.

And if you refuse the mark. . .

You can not "buy or sell":

And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Rev. 13:17-18
If you refuse the mark, you will not be able to purchase even the essentials, such as food, water, utilities, etc. Basically, the whole world and Satan will be against you.

You will "lose your head" – you’ll be beheaded:

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Rev. 20:4
Apparently, during the tribulation, the infamous guillotine will be resurrected.

It’s interesting, in Sept., 1999, A&E Channel (Arts and Entertainment) did a special on the guillotine. It ended with this remarkable, statement:

"Although the blade no longer falls today, we may not have heard the last of the Guillotine." (A&E Channel)
In order to be saved during the tribulation, you can not take the mark. And if you refuse the mark, you will not be able to but or sell, and you will be beheaded.

I certainly do not claim to understand all we’ve just read, but it looks as if, during the tribulation there is an element of "enduring" that is not applicable before the rapture.

I believe this is what Matthew 24:13 means:

But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Matt. 24:13
Notice the context of Matthew 24 – the tribulation :

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. Matthew 24:21
Notice the "endure to the end" in Mark 13:13:

And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Mark 13:13:
Again, Mark 13 deals with the tribulation:

But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, Mark 13:24
In the light of these verses, let me give you some advice — if you’re not saved NOW – do it NOW!

You don’t want to go in the tribulation.

Salvation is very simple before the rapture – after the rapture – it’s not so easy.

But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 2 Cor. 11:3

http://www.av1611.org/666/christian.html
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« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2013, 08:51:49 am »

Chris says he can’t be sure about the Mark of the Beast as it isn’t plainly taught that those who take it are going to Hell.

 Huh

How can he even come to that conclusion?


Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.


It really doesn’t get much clearer than that. If you take the Mark, you have to Worship the Beast, and you will be tormented for ever and ever. Its that simple, he says it isnt clear? That is very clear right there. No if's and's or but’s about it.

Even here we see that if they took the Mark or worshipped the Beast, they are NOT resurrected.


Rev 20:4 nd I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


I think scripture makes it crystal clear as to the Lords intent here. If you take the Mark OR Worship the Beast, thats it. You’re done.
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« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2013, 11:03:21 am »

UPDATED 10/25 - Satan’s New Post-Mark-of-the-Beast Salvation Evangelists

Satan’s New
 
Post-Mark-of-the-Beast Salvation Evangelists

 
Satan to the world –

“Take my Mark, you can always repent before the wrath of God falls. Listen to my scholars, trust in what they say. Even though Revelation 14:9 says ‘ANY MAN’, you don’t really believe that do you? Isn’t God a forgiving God? You can still live the American Dream I created for you.”



1 Timothy 4:1 – “Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils”
2 Timothy 3:13 – “But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.”
1 John 2:26-27 – “These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
 
27 But the anointing which ye have received of Him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in Him.”
 
Isaiah 14:12-14 – “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
 
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
 
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.”
 
This is the one and only goal Satan has, everything he is doing is towards this end.
 
Since Satan is limited, technology will be able to give him the ability to imitate God. The world’s technology grid system being built and deployed for some time now is advancing at a very high rate. Everything is being quickly developed and launched around the world so at some point, Satan will be able to mimic that he knows everything, that he is all powerful and that he will be worshipped by the whole world.

Satan being worshipped by the whole world is a prophecy still yet to be fulfilled but we can see through the Freemasons and other ecumenical organization efforts, this is taking place. Satan has deployed his Masonic, Jesuit, and other unsaved “ministers of righteousness” to turn all towards himself.

The latest missile launched is that one can receive the Mark of the Beast and still be saved using human reasoning.
 
Revelation 14:9-10 – “And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
 
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:”
 
Even though the Holy Spirit states through John in Revelation 14:9 “ANY MAN… receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand”, somehow the new “Post-Mark Salvation Evangelists” seduce the blinded, men-trusting, disobedient Christians with this new doctrine of demons that bypasses the Word of God with their own satanic human reasoning.
 
This “Post-Mark Salvation” message appeals directly to the sinful flesh and when the time comes to lay it all on the line and exercise faith to refuse the Mark of the Beast, Satan will be whispering in the ears of Christians –
 
“Remember what John MacArthur, Jimmy DeYoung, Brannon Howse, and Chris Pinto said? You really trust them, you can still repent after taking the Mark of the Beast, God will forgive you.
 
Just like John MacArthur states one can be forgiven after taking the Mark and also receive the wrath of God, Chris Pinto himself does the same thing. Chris states he doesn't want anyone to think he is promoting the idea to take the Mark and still repent (Time mark 51:05), Chris also stated "Would that be MY counsel?" "What would be MY wisdom?" (Time mark 44:05), cleverly superseding the counsel of the Word of God found in Revelation 14:9 and Revelation 22:19. So subtle, so crafty, trained well.
 
Having it both ways, creating doubt, appealing to the sinful flesh and confusion right where it needs to be.
 
You don’t really believe the Word of God meant “ANY MAN” did you? It’s just two little words. After all, you’re saved already, just “take away” those two little words in Revelation 14:9 and believe God will still forgive you.
 
You really don’t believe the words “ANY MAN” in Revelation 22:19 do you?

Would God really take your part out in the book of life if you take away the words “ANY MAN”? After all these years?
 
Just take away those two little words, you can still be saved and buy and sell like before.”
 
Revelation 22:19 – “And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.”
 
The Conflict of Chris Pinto, cleverly having it both ways using the “scenario human reasoning” tactic.
 
Chris Pinto stating he would not teach you can take the Mark of the Beast and repent later on
 
Time Mark 51:05 transcription -
 
I hope nobody is going to take from this the idea that Chris Pinto believe and teaches that you can take the Mark of the Beast and go repent later on, that’s not something I would go about teaching.
 
Chris Pinto cleverly stating the possibility of repentance after taking the Mark of the Beast. It’s smooth.
 
Time Mark 44:05 transcription -
 
OK let’s just say somebody took the Mark of the Beast and then afterwards they felt guilty about it and they wanted to repent of it.

Would MY counsel to that person, let’s say they could hear my voice uh through this radio program or in an article or something, would MY counsel be to tell them that they are without any hope whatsoever eternally condemned uh and that there’s no point in trying to repent because they won’t be able to?
 
Would that be MY counsel? And I have to say no, that would not be MY counsel.

Now certainly if somebody said they “took Mark of the Beast” and they said “what does that mean?”
 
I would say “well that means you’re going to be burned by the fire of God in the presence of the Holy angels and the smoke of your torment will ascend forever and ever” and then if they said “Can I repent?”

What would be MY wisdom?

Would I look at them and say “All is lost, just forget about it, you are damned to Hell, there’s no hope for you whatsoever.”

Would I say that to them?

Or would I encourage them to repent?

Well I have always believed in the wisdom of the King of Nineveh, I’ve always believed…
 
The seductive similarities of Chris Pinto’s words and the serpent in the Garden
 
When looking at the transcript above its clear Chris Pinto has a “MY” problem.
 
Chris cleverly replaces God’s counsel of Revelation 14:9-10 with “MY counsel” and “MY wisdom” using human scenario reasoning mixed with the Word of God. FIVE times in that short transcript Chris refers to “MY”. Who cares what Chris’s counsel & wisdom is. All that matters is God’s counsel and wisdom.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. That’s where everyone should begin when it comes to wisdom.
 
The Word of God is clear, “ANY MAN” = “wrath of God”. There is no wiggle room, either you believe the Word of God or you don’t.
 
When you listen and read the transcript, it has a sound like the serpent. Both tempting, both removing the finality.
 
Chris stated “Or would I encourage them to repent?”
 
The serpent said to Eve “Ye shall not surely die”.
 
A believer that listened to Chris’s words is at the moment of truth of taking the Mark of the Beast and they recall what Chris Pinto said –
 
“…would MY counsel be to tell them that they are without any hope whatsoever eternally condemned uh and that there’s no point in trying to repent because they won’t be able to?
 
And I have to say no, that would not be MY counsel.”
 
“…then if they said “Can I repent?”

What would be MY wisdom?

Would I look at them and say “All is lost, just forget about it, you are damned to Hell, there’s no hope for you whatsoever.”

Would I say that to them?

Or would I encourage them to repent?”
 
Those are seducing words that could cause one to take the Mark of the Beast so they could continue buying and selling.
 
Instead of listening to the Word of God “ANY MAN” in the heat of the moment, one could listen to “MY counsel” and “MY wisdom” of Chris Pinto or the words of John MacArthur, Jimmy DeYoung, or Brannon Howse and take the Mark of the Beast thinking they can repent later.
 



Eating of the fruit in the Garden and taking the Mark of the Beast both have dire consequences.
 
Genesis 2:16-17 – “And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
 
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
 
Revelation 14:9-10 – “And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
 
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb”
 

Conclusion
 
Jesus is the Word of God (Revelation 19:13), His words are spirit (John 6:63). Speaking against the Holy Spirit is unforgiveable (Matthew 12:32). Taking away the words “ANY MAN” is taking away from the words of the book of this prophecy (Revelation 22:19).
 
Matthew 12:31-32 – “Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
 
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.”
 
Don’t “take away” the words “ANY MAN” from Revelation 14:9 & Revelation 22:19.

Soon, the rubber will be meeting the road to exercise faith in refusing the Mark of the Beast. Complete and utter trust in the Word of God will be required.
 
The Lord gives us the grace for obedience as we love Him.
 
Related recent articles & video documents -
http://ephesians511blog.blogspot.com/2013/10/john-macarthur-outrage-take-mark-of.html
http://ephesians511blog.blogspot.com/2013/10/mark-of-beast-seductive-american-church.html



The counsel of God is easy, straight, and final
 Revelation 14:9-10 – “And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
 10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb”
 The Lord’s counsel is sufficient. Any man means any man.
 Either you believe/trust the Word of God or you don’t.
 Plain and simple.
 God doesn’t need us mixing His word with “scenario human reasoning” on the Mark of the Beast. That’s where departing from the Word of God and the seduction begins.
 Just give the Word of God. The counsel of God.


http://ephesians511blog.blogspot.com/
http://ephesians511blog.blogspot.com/2013/10/satans-new-post-mark-salvation.html
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« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2013, 11:21:45 am »



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« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2013, 11:47:19 am »

Mark, Pinto's view on Revelation is that of Historicism - this escatology view believes that the Rev 13 Antichrist prophecy happened in a 1260 year period(where 1 day is interpreted as 1 year) from the 6th century to the 18th century. This is also the exact same view the 7th Day Adventists hold. This is why he believes the mark of the beast is nothing but an allegory, and ultimately believes you still can get saved even if you (allegorically)take it.

THIS is where he is in error - Historicism(and A-Mill for that matter too) are escatology views created by the Catholic Church. Some of those "influential evangelists" like Matthew Henry, John Wesley, and Charles Spurgeon also held to this view(I have Henry's commentary - and suffice to say, his views on Matthew 24, 2nd The 2, Daniel, and Revelation was so allegorical, they didn't make sense).

And like I mentioned in another thread - it wasn't until the 19th century when churches started to embrace the Historicism view(which is also where Pinto is in error). Otherwise, prior to that - early church fathers and believers prior held to the proper future end times view.

As for trying to interpret that 1260 days = 1260 years...

1) It's not clear when the Papal reign started(some say 4th century, others say 5th century). They also try to claim it ended in the late 18th century. Well, in our present day, the Papacy STILL exists. Whatever their reasonings...

2) This particular passage they cherry-pick, DESPITE the fact that scripture makes it clear it's ONLY for ISRAEL AT THE TIME...

Ezekiel 4:5  For I have laid upon thee the years of their iniquity, according to the number of the days, three hundred and ninety days: so shalt thou bear the iniquity of the house of Israel.
Eze 4:6  And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year.


Yes - notice in verse 6, for example, it clearly says for the HOUSE OF JUDAH. But somehow the Historicism crowd tries to apply this EVERYWHERE, including Revelation 13.
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« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2013, 11:55:23 am »

Mark, Pinto's view on Revelation is that of Historicism - this escatology view believes that the Rev 13 Antichrist prophecy happened in a 1260 year period(where 1 day is interpreted as 1 year) from the 6th century to the 18th century. This is also the exact same view the 7th Day Adventists hold. This is why he believes the mark of the beast is nothing but an allegory, and ultimately believes you still can get saved even if you (allegorically)take it.

THIS is where he is in error - Historicism(and A-Mill for that matter too) are escatology views created by the Catholic Church. Some of those "influential evangelists" like Matthew Henry, John Wesley, and Charles Spurgeon also held to this view(I have Henry's commentary - and suffice to say, his views on Matthew 24, 2nd The 2, Daniel, and Revelation was so allegorical, they didn't make sense).

And like I mentioned in another thread - it wasn't until the 19th century when churches started to embrace the Historicism view(which is also where Pinto is in error). Otherwise, prior to that - early church fathers and believers prior held to the proper future end times view.

As for trying to interpret that 1260 days = 1260 years...

1) It's not clear when the Papal reign started(some say 4th century, others say 5th century). They also try to claim it ended in the late 18th century. Well, in our present day, the Papacy STILL exists. Whatever their reasonings...

2) This particular passage they cherry-pick, DESPITE the fact that scripture makes it clear it's ONLY for ISRAEL AT THE TIME...

Ezekiel 4:5  For I have laid upon thee the years of their iniquity, according to the number of the days, three hundred and ninety days: so shalt thou bear the iniquity of the house of Israel.
Eze 4:6  And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year.


Yes - notice in verse 6, for example, it clearly says for the HOUSE OF JUDAH. But somehow the Historicism crowd tries to apply this EVERYWHERE, including Revelation 13.

uhm, no it isnt. All 4 of these guys are basing it on the belief that God is calling people to repent, so if the end-times is to get people to repent, and if you repent your sins, than this can be forgiven too. This has nothing to do with replacemnt theology.
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« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2013, 12:15:11 pm »

Moderator Edit(BornAgain2): Sorry about this, but ended up deleting this very post from above - so will insert what I deleted into Mark's response to it.


That wasn't what I was saying with that verse(sorry about the confusion) - I was pointing out the part of that verse where it interprets 1 day as 1 year.

My point here is that Historicism believers will use THAT particular part of the verse(1 day = 1 year), and apply it EVERYWHERE - one of them being in Rev 13 where they say it's 1260 years, and then somehow they come to the conclusion that it was the Roman Papacy from the 4th century to the 18th century. 7th Day Adventists hold to this view.

That was the point I was trying to drive home - Historicism was made up by the Catholic Church in the 4th century. But Baptist/Protestant churches didn't start to embrace it until the 19th century(coincidentally, when all of these abominable heresies like evolution, Wescott and Hort, etc came about). This is one of the reasons why churches in America are so Apostate now, to the point where even they have joined the scoffers bandwagon.

And this is also the view Pinto embraces - having listened to his show for 2 years, he's pretty much embraced Historicism for a long time(he always held to the view that the Rev 13 Antichrist is the Papacy from the 7th century). This is why he believes the mark of the beast has been allegorical from the 7th century.

But that isnt the view he has. In his last couple of audios he has given the Reformers view as to what they believed the Mark was. Clearly that isnt accuate as here is no way that idea could work on a world wide scale and be enforceable. Chris has always maintained tha he believes tha the mark will be some form of chip or tattoo type devise tha has to be implanted. This is in his Meggiddo 1 and 2 videos.

The problem with this new idea, is that taking the Mark is just a plane ole sin and nothing more. Something that a person can repent from and get saved. He even quotes Psam 103 in trying to make this work. The problem is very simple, the text its self does not support this idea. It clearly states tha if ANY MAN takes the Mark hes done. No way around it. They are setting up the idea that if you take the Mark you can still get saved somehow. This is a LIE.
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« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2013, 12:24:36 pm »

But that isnt the view he has. In his last couple of audios he has given the Reformers view as to what they believed the Mark was. Clearly that isnt accuate as here is no way that idea could work on a world wide scale and be enforceable. Chris has always maintained tha he believes tha the mark will be some form of chip or tattoo type devise tha has to be implanted. This is in his Meggiddo 1 and 2 videos.

The problem with this new idea, is that taking the Mark is just a plane ole sin and nothing more. Something that a person can repent from and get saved. He even quotes Psam 103 in trying to make this work. The problem is very simple, the text its self does not support this idea. It clearly states tha if ANY MAN takes the Mark hes done. No way around it. They are setting up the idea that if you take the Mark you can still get saved somehow. This is a LIE.


Admittedly, I didn't listen to his audio yet on this. Thank you for clearing this up(sorry about all of the confusion on my part - was just basing it upon other past audios). Yes, I remember his Meggiddo 1 and 2 videos(although been awhile since I've seen them).

Anyhow - this isn't just John MacArthur, Brannon House, Jimmy DeYoung(and throw in Pinto as well) - by and large, it seems like more pastors and churches are embracing this "you can take the mark and still be saved" idea b/c they're reading phony bible versions. Yes, MacArthur has some major doctrinal issues(ie-he's a Calvinist). But nonetheless look at the bibles he uses(ie-he has NIV/NKJB "study bibles").

Was looking at Rev 14:9-10 in the NIV the other day, and compared it with the KJB. Look at key punctuations that are removed in the NIV to make it look like you can take the mark, but *have to* worship the beast *at the same time* in order to have no chance at salvation.
http://endtimesandcurrentevents.freesmfhosting.com/index.php/topic,9505.0.html

Why Pinto embraces this idea, I don't know - but nonetheless you're seeing the One World Church system prophecy coming to pass very shortly!
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« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2013, 01:19:17 pm »

Quote
Friday, October 25, 2013 at 5:46AM
Today's Show: REPENTANCE FROM THE MARK OF THE BEAST?

In a special one hour show, Chris brings the discussion on the Mark of the Beast to a conclusion.  We learn more about how the "mark" was understood through the Middle Ages, as it was recognized in association with the Papal system of Rome.  Yet strangely enough, there were no discussions about whether or not a person could receive the mark, and then repent later on.  This was because the ability to repent seems to have been taken for granted.  But a shift took place in the 19th century, as the understanding of prophecy changed from the classical Historicist view (taught by the Reformers) to a Futurist view, which is embraced by most Evangelicals today.  How did the shift in exegesis change the understanding of the mark, and whether or not a person could repent if they received it? 
http://www.noiseofthunder.com/storage/NOTR_REPENT.MARK.BEAST_10.22.13.mp3

OK, I've only listened to 1/2 of this - wanted to give my thoughts after I listened to it in its entirety, but nonetheless Pinto has raised some eyebrows in only 1/2 that he said. If he says anything new, will update it after I listen to the whole thing. Here is what he said...

1) He is pretty adamant that the Rev 13 Antichrist is the Papacy SYSTEM that arose in the 5th or so century. This is why he believes the mark of the beast is "spiritual", which is nothing more than a "confirmation" when one enters into the Roman Catholic Church.

2) He all but says the future, end times escatology is a heresy - and he even tries to tie it to the "teachings" of John Darby and Darby's close colleagues.

3) He believes the correct escatology is Historicism - which believes the Revelation, Daniel, Matthew 24, etc prophecies happen over the centuries.

4) And b/c he believes the mark of the beast is "spiritual" that comes from the RCC, it somehow means you can get saved later on like the Protestant Reformers(among others) did.

My comments - this is pretty much nothing new from Pinto(over the 2 years since I've been listening to him). He never believed in the proper future end times escatology. His Historicism views are also in great error b/c it was made up by the Catholic Church to begin with. Now since the 19th century, Baptist/Protestant churches have not only embraced it, but have scoffed at the proper end times future escatology. Even worse, modern-day churches believe somehow Nero was the Rev 13 Antichrist(and no longer the Papacy). It's not the other way around where it was Historicism first then futurism that Pinto implies.

As for the Darby angle - I hear it all the time when people try to reason why the future view is wrong - they always say, "But Darby made it up!"(without giving any reasons further).

Either way - the modern-day church system is being set up to where they will embrace the mark of the beast system when the Revelation seals get opened. And combine it with their false misinterpretations of Romans 13...

These modern-day churches in the AC's OWC system will say..."But Romans 13 says to submit to the government", then subsequently "OK, then taking the mark of the beast is mandatory"...
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« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2013, 01:37:01 pm »

OK, quit listening at the 39 minute mark - where he goes over the 1st vial of wrath, and tries to reason how God is compelling people who have the mark of the beast to repent by putting grevious sores on them. Uhm, scripture doesn't imply that at all...

Rev 16:2  And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.

He also forgot about the 4rd vial of wrath where these people repented not...

Rev 16:8  And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
Rev 16:9  And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.


Again, not sure everything else he said after that point - but nonetheless he's trying to spin it to where the mark of the beast system is "spiritual", and it comes from the Roman Catholic Church. Obviously, too many errors here b/c...

1) Not everyone in this world is Catholic, obviously(although these Baptist/Protestant denominations are yoking up with them, but that's a different story).

Rev 13:8  And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

So all upon the earth are Catholics? Uhm...NO!

2) There's 1260 days of the beast's reign in Rev 13 - obviously, the Papacy still exists in our present day.(although Historicism believers try to spin how it ended in the 18th century)

3) Why hasn't Pinto mentioned who the False Prophet is? Come to think of it, those that hold to the Historicism view rarely ever say who the False Prophet is.

4) The proper future view is the escatology that's REALLY being attacked now - now THAT should raise a red flag. Why Pinto has been on the bandwagon of this, I don't know. But the modern-day church system and other Churchianity types like Spurgeon and Henry have all but attacked it too.

5) The so-called Protestant Reformers were opposition-controlled themselves - they just merely played the Hegelian Dialectic opposite from the Papacy. I believe Bill Cooper said Martin Luther wanted the seat of the Papacy. Otherwise, they carried a lot of RCC baggage with them.

Like I was saying - the One World Church system is being set up to embrace the MOB system when it comes to pass.
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« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2013, 05:44:38 pm »

Ultimately, another thing to somewhat look out for - to see if more so-called "christian ministers" and "churches" preach this heresy that you can still get saved if you take the mark.

They're already slowly but surely bringing in higher level technology into these churches - for example, these flat screen tvs they're putting behind more pulpits. It's not just the megachurches(and bigger ones for that matter too) doing so, even the medium-sized churches are doing the same as well.
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« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2013, 01:51:13 pm »

Speaking of this John MacArthur guy - apparently, he's a doublespeak kind of guy - outwardly, he acts like an end times discernment Christian watchman, but behind the scenes he's working quietly to push things that he's outwardly speaking out against.

1) He exposes the Emergent Church, Rick Warren, Joel Osteen, etc - however, he happens to be good friends with John Piper and Greg Laurie(both of whom have ties to Rick Warren and the EC).

2) He exposes CCM - however, he allows CCM in his church, especially to the youth groups.

3) He believes Jesus Christ's blood atonement was "symbolic". Warren never mentions Christ's blood atonement.

4) Some of his books come right out of Zondervan - the same publishing company Warren's books come right out of.

5) He not only has put out NIV "study bibles", but also NKJV *and* ESV "study bibles"(the National Council of Churches endorsed the ESV).

Also - while we're on the subject of these post-mark of the beast heretics, Chris Pinto recently gave a half-hearted endorsement of the ESV recently. No, he didn't endorse it outright, but he was like "But we can't throw the baby out of the bathwater b/c it's roots were good...".

And Charles Spurgeon(who also had this "you can still get saved after taking the mark" belief) endorsed the NASB when he was alive.
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« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2013, 02:01:25 pm »

it seem all these guys in the Post Mark Salvation do some double speak...

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« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2013, 02:26:32 pm »

While Pinto may have put out some good stuff - at the same time, he's said some things recently that have raised some eyebrows.

1) While he promotes the KJB, at the same time he tends to mock the KJB-only crowd(saying it's the best bible, but he promoted the ESV as OK. He also promotes the Geneva Bible, which has some issues).

2) He goes overboard promoting the Protestant Reformers - people have to realize that Luther and other PRs just MERELY PROTESTED the Catholic Church. Otherwise, they brought some RCC baggage with them(which is why you see a lot of works-based Catholic stuff in these Protestant Churches). It's a lot like the "truth" movement which just MERELY PROTESTS the Illuminati(and nothing more).

3) The whole thing exposing David Barton a couple of years ago - the truth to this matter was that it was some atheist "truther" woman(who has an account on YT) that first exposed Barton in 2008. Not that I endorse her, but again the truth of the matter is that it was this woman that exposed Barton initially. Otherwise, Barton has had ties to Calvary Chapel, including with the likes of Brannon House, Pinto, Chuck Smith, Markell, etc. It wasn't until this expose when House, Pinto, etc started distancing themselves from Barton.(and "Hidden Faiths of our Founding Fathers" in 2010 was the first time Pinto and others exposed him)

4) He, like these other internet "discernment" ministries, tend to get political instead of consistently exposing the entire system - yeah, they expose the Jesuit Order and their agendas. But nonetheless after the 2012 election, Pinto came out on his radio show mulling how Democrats may have stole the election for Obama. Uhm...he forgot about how the Ohio electronic voting machines were rigged for Bush Jr in 2004(otherwise Kerry would have been President). He also forgot about how Bill Clinton was groomed by the Elder Bush in the early 80's, the same Elder Bush he "defeated" in 1992. IOW, it's been like this throughout history.

5) I always found it interesting he promoted Charles Spurgeon quite a bit - apparently, both Rick Warren's and Ray Comfort's great-grandparents were evangelized by Spurgeon. Spurgeon was very "influential", and he too believed you can take the mark and still get saved. It just seems like all of these "influential evangelists" are somehow connected to each other one way or another.
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« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2013, 02:55:15 pm »

If the mark of the beast somehow permanently altered a human at the molecular level, (say, via nanotechnology) then I can see the real possibility of not coming to repentance ever.

A lot of people react in fear whenever I bring this up. But I do see the intent and desire to develop this through scientific articles and the transhumanism movement right now.

They are selling the idea to the public as being able to cure currently incurable medical conditions.

World leaders would easily support the idea of controlling the human central nervous system directly. This would give them control over individual thoughts and attitudes and would be sold as a solution to war and crime. Michael Aquino’s work already takes this approach.


I thought that I had seen a verse somewhere that explicitly stated that those who take the mark will belong to the devil/beast. I can’t seem to find that verse anywhere now. Maybe I didn’t see it in scripture. IDK.
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« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2013, 01:07:43 pm »

Here is Scotts response to the issue. Starts about 10-12 min into it. Also Chris Pinto is still not allowing any posts or comments to be made to these audios he did.

Quote
End Time Current Events: 10-27-13 — Part 3

Table of Contents:

    Pope Francis Thinks You Are Insane For Taking Your Faith Seriously
    2007 NBC Report Predicts: All Americans May Receive A Microchip Implant In 2017 Per Obamacare (VIDEOS)
    Listener Question: Is it possible if you could discuss this “you can still get saved if you take the mark of the beast” heresy that’s floating around now?
    Proof RFID Microchip Is In Obama Health Care

Click Here to Play the Part 3 Audio
http://www.contendingfortruth.com/wp-content/uploads/376.3-10-27-13-DS300079.mp3
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« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2013, 01:15:45 pm »

I heard that part last night - it's not just recent, but they've been pushing this idea that the mark is "spiritual" for the last couple of centuries.

7th Day Adventists believe this(aside from their "But the mark of the beast is Sunday Worship Law" nonsense, that is) - William Miller is an example(he thought the Rev 13 prophecy was the Papacy system for 1260 years, which is why he set a date for the rapture/end of the world). Very popular and "influential" ministers like Charles Spurgeon, John Wesley, and Matthew Henry pushed the idea of a "spiritual" mark as well.

As for the Darby/CI Scofield angle - this is just my opinion, but also my observations - remember both used the King James Bible. Pt being that while they overtly-focus on them and their so-called "modern day dispensationalism ideas", they end up distracting a lot of attention away from Wescott and Hort and all of these "higher criticism" people like Phillip Schaff who attack the King James Bible. So ultimately, through all this, the King James Bible is getting attacked. An ultimate bait and switch.

Really - since when have Preterists like Gary DeMar and Hang Haanegraff(and throw in the modern-day churches) even mention Wescott and Hort?
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« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2013, 05:34:29 am »

Chris Pinto Mark of the Beast Sophistry WARNING!!!
 
-The angel WARNS earth of the Mark of the Beast = the wrath of God. Chris Pinto seduces with doubt.-
 
Chris Pinto’s conflicting quote –“With the Mark of the Beast, while yes those who take it are condemned, be burned by the fire of God etcetera, I don’t find a scripture that says it is impossible for them to repent. That I have not found.”


rest: http://ephesians511blog.blogspot.com/2013/10/chris-pinto-mark-of-beast-sophistry.html

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« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2013, 07:55:00 am »

Quote
I don’t find a scripture that says it is impossible for them to repent. That I have not found.”

What about this...

4  For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5  And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6  If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.
Hebrews 6:4-6 (KJB)
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« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2013, 08:39:51 am »

What about this...

4  For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5  And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6  If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.
Hebrews 6:4-6 (KJB)


I dont think that is what he is looking for, no that he is looking at all. That has moe to do with OSAS. What Chris was talking about was

Mat 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

Where it states that blasphemy against the Holy Ghost will not be forgiven. Tha is what he is looking for. The problem is, you can use the same word games he used in that analogy. There is NO verse that says is impossible for someone to repent from blasphemy against the Holy Ghost. Chris is playing word games to try and make this work.

The text clearly states what happens to who ever takes the Mark.

Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.


The Bible makes it very clear that any man and whosoever, that means ANYONE AT ALL. So if you take the Mark there is no repentence, thats it, your gonna burn forever and ever.

He says there isnt anything that says you cant repent, well right there it plainly says if you take it you will burn forever. Chris is playing somekind of word games with people.

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« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2013, 08:58:45 am »

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here is my response:


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How can you say that people who take the Mark and Worship the image of the Beast can get saved? The Bible does not teach that at all. You are twisting scripture to fit an idea that does not exist. If you take the Mark you are done. The Bible clearly teaches that all who take the Mark and Worship the Image will be cast into the lake of fire. The Tribulation is a new dispensation, you have to accept Christ AND not take the Mark or Worship the Image.

The Bride is raptured BEFORE the Trib starts, so all hat will be left will be the Tribulation Saints. The Trib Saints have to accept Jesus and NOT take the mark. Its that simple, they will most likley LOOSE their Heads in the process. If you dont take the Mark you lose your head. This is the final choice for all those left on Earth during this time. If you dont take the Mark you get your head cut off. For a Tribulation Saint this is their ticket home. For an unbeliever, this is their final chance to choose a side.

You cant repent from this, if so than why put out that at all? Why would God say if you take the Mark you will die, and not mean it? You are teaching a false doctrine in the last times. Please think about what you are putting out by following false teachers like John McArthur who partners WITH the Roman Church and Mormons.

When i heard Brannon House hop on this false teaching i was hoping for sure that you would correct him, not jump into the boat also. If you take the Mark you will burn in the lake of fire for all eternity.

I really doubt that this will show on the Noise of Thunder web site. He is teaching a false doctrine, and being led by false teachers.

and i was right, just received this email from Chris himself.

Quote
Dear Mark,

We are not posting your comment because you have distorted what I said.  Did you
actually listen to the radio program?  I did not say that "people who take the Mark and Worship
the image of the Beast can get saved" -- as you wrote.  We do not object to contrary views,
but we are not willing to allow our teachings to be misrepresented on our own website.
That is the problem with your comment.  If you wish to post an objection, then quote what
I said literally, and make your comments from there.

Sincerely in Christ,


Christian J. Pinto
Producer/Director
Adullam Films
www.adullamfilms.org
888-780-5049
1 Kings 18:39

I did not distort what Chris said, did he use the exact words "people who take the Mark and Worship
the image of the Beast can get saved"
, no he didnt, Did he each that in his broadcast? Yes he did, and that is well documented.
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« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2013, 02:03:46 pm »

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Chris Pinto wrote Mark:

Did you
actually listen to the radio program?  I did not say that "people who take the Mark and Worship
the image of the Beast can get saved" -- as you wrote.

I only listened to 40 minutes of that broadcast(of the full 1 hour) - but yes, Chris DID say that! Not word for word, but numerous times during that broadcast he DID imply that! Just to sum it up in a nutshell: Chris said the mark of the beast is taking communion with the Roman Catholic Church - so this means you can repent and get saved if you took the "spiritual" mark.

So yes, however you spin it, Chris DID say that!

WOW is all I can say!
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« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2013, 04:00:04 pm »

FYI, Matthew Henry(one of the "traditional bible scholars" from a couple of centuries ago) believed the same thing Pinto(and other post-mark heretics) believes...

(From Henry's commentary in Rev 13)
3. By disfranchisement, allowing none to enjoy natural, civil, or municipal rights, who will not worship that papal beast, that is, the image of the pagan beast. It is made a qualification for buying and selling the rights of nature, as well as for places of profit and trust, that they have the mark of the beast in their forehead and in their right hand, and that they have the name of  the beast and the number of his name. It is probable that the mark, the name, and the number  of the beast, may all signify the same thing—that they make an open profession of their subjection and obedience to the papacy, which is receiving the mark in their forehead, and that they oblige themselves to use all their interest, power, and endeavour, to promote the papal authority, which is receiving the mark in their right hands.

(From Rev 14)
v. 9, v. 10. If after this (this threatening denounced against Babylon, and in part already executed) any should persist in their idolatry, professing subjection to the beast and promoting his cause, they must expect to drink deep of the wind of the wrath of God; they shall be for ever miserable in soul and body; Jesus Christ will inflict this punishment upon them, and the holy angels will behold it and approve of it. Idolatry, both pagan and papal, is a damning sin in its own nature, and will prove fatal to those who persist in it, after fair warning given by the word of Providence; those who refuse to come out of Babylon, when thus called, and resolve to partake of her sins, must receive of her plagues; and the guilt and ruin of such incorrigible idolaters will serve to set forth the excellency of the patience and obedience of the saints. These graces shall be rewarded with salvation and glory. When the treachery and rebellion of others shall be punished with everlasting destruction, then it will be said, to the honour of the faithful

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have Henry's commentary at my house, and remember reading about this a couple of years ago - yes, he too believes if you take the "spiritual" mark, while you will suffer misery in soul and body while living on this earth, but nonetheless still have a chance to get saved before they die.

Having read Henry's other views on Revelation, to sum it up in a nutshell: None of what he says makes sense. For example, he thinks one of the trumpet judgments is the releasing of witchcraft on the earth(he forgot how witchcraft existed during OT times!).
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« Reply #25 on: October 30, 2013, 04:19:05 pm »

that is one of the problems that i have in going back in history to see what other people thought about prophecy. Especially if they had no idea about certain technologies that were not even conceived of back then. That is how we end up with heresy's like replacement theology. Israel didn't exist anymore, the people scattered to the 4 corners of the Earth. So since the were gone, someone else had to be Israel, and well maybe they were a spiritual Israel. Well the Lord disproved that in 1948.

So just the concept of how the whole world could watch the 2 witnesses get killed and throw a party all over the WORLD. They had no idea of even the idea of TV, or real time satellite TV and 24 hour news service and smart phones. So it had to be spiritualized, until low and behold we approach the time, and just like that, the technology becomes available to pull it off.

So really looking to history for understanding future prophecy makes no sense, especially when the people had no concept of how it could be done in the end times. If you take a TV back them they would think it was some form of magic. And you get just that in the way Chris explained what the reformers believed. It is all spiritual ,mainly because they could not even conceive of some way that you could stop people from buying and selling all over the world at one time. Well they were way wrong, is there a spiritual component? Yes but the whole thing is NOT spiritual, there is a literal Mark that is placed in the person's hand or forehead.
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« Reply #26 on: October 30, 2013, 04:38:03 pm »

that is one of the problems that i have in going back in history to see what other people thought about prophecy. Especially if they had no idea about certain technologies that were not even conceived of back then. That is how we end up with heresy's like replacement theology. Israel didn't exist anymore, the people scattered to the 4 corners of the Earth. So since the were gone, someone else had to be Israel, and well maybe they were a spiritual Israel. Well the Lord disproved that in 1948.

So just the concept of how the whole world could watch the 2 witnesses get killed and throw a party all over the WORLD. They had no idea of even the idea of TV, or real time satellite TV and 24 hour news service and smart phones. So it had to be spiritualized, until low and behold we approach the time, and just like that, the technology becomes available to pull it off.

So really looking to history for understanding future prophecy makes no sense, especially when the people had no concept of how it could be done in the end times. If you take a TV back them they would think it was some form of magic. And you get just that in the way Chris explained what the reformers believed. It is all spiritual ,mainly because they could not even conceive of some way that you could stop people from buying and selling all over the world at one time. Well they were way wrong, is there a spiritual component? Yes but the whole thing is NOT spiritual, there is a literal Mark that is placed in the person's hand or forehead.


I posted Henry's commentary thoughts b/c just wanted to show that HE TOO(along with other "influential evangelists" like John Wesley, Charles Spurgeon, Eliot, etc) were also compromised, and maybe even controlled-opposition.

For the most part, Christians aren't these wealthy people who travel around the world holding these BIG "gatherings"(or whatever you want to call them), nor are their works/commentaries/devotionals, etc supposed to be "well respected" around the world(like they were given authority over scripture). But somehow these men were put on a pedestial like this, and somehow they were seen as these "great men of God".

Ultimately - regardless of the great lack of technology they were exposed to back then - there's no excuse for them to not have the proper and literal interpretation of scripture. Pt being that with all of the wealth and following they had, I'm not surprised they were forced to compromise their "ministries". Even Spurgeon admitted to rarely ever talking about end times eschatology(he gave an excuse that made it obvious he didn't want to offend his flock).

And the same goes for these "discernment" ministries like Chris Pinto's, Brannon House's, etc - they too were compromised from the get-go - House's ministry is a 501c3, and Pinto yoked up with heretics like Tom Horn/LA Marzolli(sp), etc so that he could get info for his DVDs.
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« Reply #27 on: October 30, 2013, 11:11:25 pm »

There's just so many things wrong with this "Worshipping the Papal System is taking the mark of the beast" nonsense...

Was having a discussion on another message forum about this - and here's one thing I'm surprised these post-mark of the beast believers don't see - if worshipping the Papal System is indeed taking the mark of the beast, then does this mean Buddhist, Hindu, Islam, Christian Science, Mormon, and atheist believers are off the hook? Roll Eyes
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« Reply #28 on: October 31, 2013, 05:12:41 am »

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Quote from: Kilika on October 30, 2013, 05:55:00 am
What about this...

4  For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5  And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6  If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.
Hebrews 6:4-6 (KJB)

Quote
I dont think that is what he is looking for, no that he is looking at all. That has moe to do with OSAS.

That verse serves as proof that you cannot take the mark, then "to renew them again unto repentance". It says why you can't, which is more concrete than saying just that you can't be saved after taking the mark.

Yes, scripture does not directly say you cannot be saved after taking the mark, at least in those specific words, so yes, Pinto is being deceptive.

BUT, it does say what happens to a person if they do take the mark, which any reasonable person who is not out to deceive followers will agree that in effect is saying you cannot be saved after taking the mark.

If you really look at his position, you can see a "works' doctrine, in that those in the world go by their own actions, believing what they do determines their salvation, so it stands to reason that false doctrine would suggest that a person can save themselves by their actions of repenting of their taking the mark. Well, that's really false because those who have taken the mark are lost souls, thus they don't have the Holy Ghost, and therefore no discernment. Taking the mark officially seals the deal of selling their soul to the enemy.

As the verse I posted says, "For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened..."

That IS the verse he claims isn't there, word for word.
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« Reply #29 on: October 31, 2013, 05:18:20 am »

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I did not distort what Chris said, did he use the exact words "people who take the Mark and Worship
the image of the Beast can get saved" , no he didnt, Did he each that in his broadcast? Yes he did, and that is well documented.

Could it be that you have a different understanding of the tribulation period than he does, and that is where he's saying you "distorted what I said"?

Obviously from previous posts, you believe during the "tribulation", you say the church has been raptured and those who remain are living by faith AND works. Does Pinto believe that?

My point is that if he believes that too, then maybe that is where he's getting the idea from, thinking that since it's a "works" situation, then by works a person could repent of taking the mark, and be re-saved by their "good works".

It's hard to make sense of what doesn't make sense!
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