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Power Grid Down November 2013

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Author Topic: Power Grid Down November 2013  (Read 1235 times)
Kilika
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« on: January 10, 2014, 04:10:19 am »

(CORRECTION: I said in an above post that the customer gets a "wholesale" price for the power they sell, but apparently the utilities are claiming it's retail price, so I may be wrong on that, but initially, without doing the math using their pricing formulas, I'm not exactly sure what the difference is, but I don't expect it to be an exact "push". I do think it will show the power companies are in fact paying less for solar than what the solar customer pays for power retail from the grid.)

The attack on solar customers continues.

This article makes it more clear what exactly these people are claiming. They claim that solar customers get full retail price for the power they sell back to the utilities, and they say that's not fair because other sources the utilities buy power from they buy at a wholesale price. Where else would they be able to buy power from? Other power utilities!

So as I now better understand it, their claim seems to make sense, sort of, but the truth is that the power companies are playing games with the numbers. They are being deceptive in trying to claim that solar customers don't pay their fair share of expenses from using the grid system. That simply is not true.

A solar customer pays full retail price for power like any other customer, period. That is a fact. And they pay that price right up to the point equal to their power usage. ALL of it is charged as if the customer had no solar panels. Once the customer has used all the power they need, any power produced after that point, the power utility must buy from the solar customer. It's not a "buy back", as the utility never owned the solar power produced in the first place!

So the argument falls on exactly how the utility prices the credits for solar power they buy from customers, versus what the customer gets charged by the power company. But here's the deal; any solar power produced gets dumped into the power grid and at that point, it "mixes" with existing power in the grid so that one cannot tell how much power they use is solar, and how much is from the utility plants. At that point, the solar customer is paying full retail price for all power taken from the grid, including the power they just sold to the utility, at retail price. I'm no math major, but that seems to add up as a "push" for any solar power the utility buys from solar customers, but I see zero loss, just not the profit margin they want.

Solar panels also provide power even when a power utility says there is a "power outage" and non-solar customers have no electricity. Certain people do not like the public being "off-grid".

All these people who scream "Save energy!", and the power companies even telling people to conserve, so people get solar panels, which clearly save energy, and they get attacked and penalized! Thugs and hypocrites.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/power-play-utilities-want-solar-162556477.html

Quote
Power play: Utilities want solar users to pay up

CNBC
By Mark Koba 17 hours ago

 Solar energy use is exploding in the U.S. In fact, a new rooftop system was installed every four minutes in 2013, according to the Solar Energy Industries Association.

But the growth has utility companies pushing in several states to scale back what they call unfair rate advantages that solar users have long received.

"The principal issue is making sure everyone is paying a fair price for what they use," said Ted Carver, CEO and chairman of Edison International, the parent company of utility Southern California Edison.

The debate centers on net metering, which requires utility companies to credit customers for solar energy that they generate in excess of their own usage. The credits were part of financial incentives to invest in solar energy.

(Read more: Solar power craze on Wall St. propels start-up)

Policies for net metering, which is used in 43 states, vary from state to state, but most credits are set at the local retail price for electricity. That bothers utilities, which contend that the retail price is set too high, resulting in excessive credits to solar users. Utilities want credits set by wholesale prices, which are much lower than retail.

"We don't care where or who we buy the power from, but it should be purchased at the wholesale price," Edison International's Carver told CNBC.

(but your company insists on retail price when selling power, so why should a seller of solar power only be entitled to a wholesale price?  Roll Eyes)

But some experts say the mere fact that utilities-which generate $360 billion a year in energy sales-are battling with solar indicates the threat it now poses to them.

"The success of solar power is forcing utilities to rethink their business model and push for the changes," said Franc Del Fosse, an energy industry lawyer and partner at Snell & Wilmer. "If you have an individual putting solar panels on the roof, it's easy to suggest that a utility is making less money."

(Read more: Ford develops solar-powered car for everyday use )

The effort for higher fees on solar panel users could backfire, said Alan Beale, general manager of SolarMax.

If the fees are too high, he said, "it will just delay ... the inevitable, and more companies and individuals will go to the independent energy producers."

According to Carver at Edison International, part of the problem is that many power users, such as apartment renters, lack access to solar energy, which creates a two-tier system that shifts higher costs to nonsolar users.

According to a policy paper from the Edison Electric Institute, a trade association, solar users avoid paying for the system's fixed costs but still take power from the grid when they need it, such as after sunset, when solar panels aren't generating. (Most solar users don't have solar storage capacity, the paper states.)

(they don't store it because the power utilities won't allow it with a grid-tied solar system, so that again falls back on the power utility! And they fail to mention what solar customers pay for all power they use, which is full price like anybody else, so again the utilities are being dishonest with their claims trying to bamboozle the ignorant public by not telling the public that the only issue at hand is with the price a utility pays for any solar power a customer sells that is in excess of what the customer needs and pays full retail price for)

The solar industry seems willing to accept some changes but stops at what it sees as the utilities' exorbitant price proposals.

"Solar customers give much more valuable peak power to utilities for free during the day than they get back at night," said John Berger, CEO and founder of solar energy provider Sunnova. "Utilities are like socialist monopolies.They don't provide good service or pricing."

Utility companies are having some success getting net metering rules changed.

In California, the No. 1 solar state in panels installed, lawmakers let net metering continue but directed its public utility commission to devise a new program by 2017 to ensure that nonsolar customers aren't burdened unfairly in paying for the grid.

In Arizona, regulators voted in November to allow the largest utility to tack a monthly fee of $5 onto the bill of customers with new solar installations. Arizona Public Service originally sought a $50 surcharge.

Colorado's utility commission is considering a proposal to halve credits for solar energy households. Other states, including Louisiana and Idaho, are also contemplating changes in net metering rates.

(Read more: From Brazil to China: Why 2014 may be a greener year)

Even some solar power users see change as necessary.

"I believe there's a way of restructuring metering rules and rate structures that won't impact the solar industry for the long term," said Karin Corfee, managing director of the energy practice for consulting firm Navigant, who has solar panels on her Danville, Calif., home.

Utility firms have valid cost issues, she said, but she is concerned that big rate increases could affect solar users' ability to pay off their energy investment.

"I figure I can pay if off in seven years," Corfee said. "But if decisions are made to shift the economics of my system ... that will be difficult."

Money is at the heart of solar energy growth.

Since 2008, the price of solar panels has fallen by 75 percent. The cost of installation has also decline as more contractors entered the market. Leasing options for users also fostered growth.

(the "lease" deals I've seen are a scam, run away! And the costs of installation are a direct result of the system itself, as only certified state licensed contractors are allowed to install solar in grid-tie systems, the power utilities require it for "engineering" reasons. To my knowledge, a homeowner cannot install a system themselves, it must be an approved contractor. Go figure Roll Eyes)

And Wall Street still likes solar. An estimated $13 billion was invested in such projects last year, 10 times as much as in 2007, according to GTM Research,

Even as they push for net metering changes, utilities are jumping on the solar bandwagon.

(of course they are! SRP here in Arizona has built massive solar plants, as well as many other power utilities have)

"We've invested in a solar distribution firm ourselves," said Carver.

"Some utilities have embraced solar and worked with users, while others have not," said Roy Palk, who spent 37 years in the utility industry and now advises the law firm LeClairRyan on energy. "But solar is not going away and will offer consumers more choices, and that's good."

And compromise on net metering may prove elusive, said Del Fosse at Snell & Wilmer.

"The real answer lies somewhere between the two sides, but it's hard to see if that will happen," he said. "The marketplace will have to provide solutions."

-By CNBC's Mark Koba. Follow him on Twitter @MarkKobaCNBC.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2014, 04:34:40 am by Kilika » Report Spam   Logged


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