PASTOR

[Psalm 51:17]

I was exchanging pms with a brother here the other day, and he pointed out over what scripture says about pastors in the bible.

There are 8 references to pastors in the book of Jeremiah alone, and guess what...

Jer_2:8  The priests said not, Where is the LORD? and they that handle the law knew me not: the pastors also transgressed against me, and the prophets prophesied by Baal, and walked after things that do not profit.

Jer_3:15  And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.

Jer_10:21  For the pastors are become brutish, and have not sought the LORD: therefore they shall not prosper, and all their flocks shall be scattered.

Jer_12:10  Many pastors have destroyed my vineyard, they have trodden my portion under foot, they have made my pleasant portion a desolate wilderness.

Jer_17:16  As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day; thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right before thee.

Jer_22:22  The wind shall eat up all thy pastors, and thy lovers shall go into captivity: surely then shalt thou be ashamed and confounded for all thy wickedness.

Jer_23:1  Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD.

Jer_23:2  Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD.

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6 of them refer to them as NEGATIVE!

[Psalm 51:17]

Eph 4:10  He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
Eph 4:11  And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

One more thing - here's a NT reference to pastors(ONLY one in the NT, that is)...

Notice like with apostles, prophets, etc - they were anointed by GOD, NOT by man/men. When you look at these modern-day churches, where's any evidence that these "pastors" were anointed by God? Did God come see them face to face, or see them in a "dream"? Or did their "seminary degree" anoint them?

Acts 1:21  Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
Act 1:22  Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.
Act 1:23  And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
Act 1:24  And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
Act 1:25  That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
Act 1:26  And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

1Timothy 1:1  Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;

[Kilika]

Those verses in Jeremiah make it clear the Lord is not happy with the religious leaders of His people Israel. But it's also clear He's not happy with some religious leaders of Christianity as well. I don't think the Jeremiah references mean that pastors are bad, but that there are bad pastors not feeding the flock, or even what they are feeding is lies and deception.

Notice like with apostles, prophets, etc - they were anointed by GOD, NOT by man/men.

True, it is a calling by God. How God acts through the believer will determine how that person appears to others, be it as a teacher, pastor, prophet, etc. We each are our own part of the body, each having different "gifts" that God uses as He sees fit. But scripture makes it clear that those within the body who are elevated to positions of prominence are put there by the people around them. One doesn't make themselves leader of a group or take to themselves titles proclaiming themselves to be somebody. Each person in the body is exhorted to be humble and take the low seat. The body of believers promote a person based on the person's history and reputation.

"And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless." 1 Timothy 3:10 (KJB)

1  Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
2  For by it the elders obtained a good report.
Hebrews 11:1,2 (KJB)

"Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them." Matthew 7:20 (KJB)

[Christian40]

what God thinks about a pastor would be far different to what congregations think of their pastors these days.

Notice like with apostles, prophets, etc - they were anointed by GOD, NOT by man/men. When you look at these modern-day churches, where's any evidence that these "pastors" were anointed by God? Did God come see them face to face, or see them in a "dream"? Or did their "seminary degree" anoint them? Roll Eyes

in the Anglican "church" here the new "reverend" goes through a ceremony called ordination. And when a "bishop" gets ordained they have to go face down on the ground. i mean the Bible is alot about the Christian to stand, not to fall! i mean in the seminaries they are supposed to prepare the believers to guide a building, well what about missing seminary and going to the streets? it would better in the long run.

i believe that Christians are anointed when they get saved, not when they have to go to a mission field or some place.

[Psalm 51:17]

Another thing - how often do you hear testimonies over conversions from these so-called pastors? Come to think of it, only Bryan I can think of(when he WAS a pastor at his home church, but admitted later he was in error for doing so).

Personally, I can't recall one time, although the closest I've heard was one saying he came from a poor family with a bunch of brothers/sisters, and how they he hung onto the side of the car on Sundays all the way to church. But even secular people like Hollywood celebs put out these stories too.

Not surprising, I guess - they're afraid to show at least some humility, or else they're afraid they won't look good to the pews, and $$ won't come in.

Also another problem with this current structure is that it's caused everyone to hide behind their pastors for everything - ultimately, when things get really bad and they don't have the word of God to stand on...

[Christian40]

Not surprising, I guess - they're afraid to show at least some humility, or else they're afraid they won't look good to the pews, and $$ won't come in.

Tell a Pastor if they want to set an example they should street preach. 

2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

i remember James Knox does street preaching where he is in Florida and Geoffrey Grider editor of nowtheendbegins.com does street preaching in St Augustine Florida too. Both men i highly respect when i hear of their work. (and there have been conversions too)

[Mark]

(and there have been conversions too)

That word conversions.. Why did you use that word?

[Christian40]

That word conversions.. Why did you use that word?

Sorry it came to me, it is not proper language i guess, what i mean is that people have gotten saved by reading the Kristian tracts (a tract about a girl who died young) with Geoffrey Grider's ministry and Pastor Knox did street ministry too.