End Times and Current Events

Not Your Average Church

Here’s something you don’t see everyday at a church–a fitness center, coffee shop and a bookstore.  A church near Milton has all of that–and more…and it is not just for church members.

Christ Wesleyan Church off Route 254 is no longer just a place of worship.  The new 27,000 square foot addition has a fitness center, a children’s jungle gym, a christian bookstore and a cafe that seats more than 100 people.  The new facility celebrates its grand opening this weekend.

When you grab lunch or a cup of coffee at “The Well”, near Milton, you may think you are in a large city.  But you’re not…you are actually inside a church!

“We have all the specialty coffee drinks, teas, blended coffee drinks.  Breakfast, lunch and dinner which are served all day long,” Business and Recreation Director Jed Epler said.

Christ Wesleyan Church near Milton recently added a 27,000 square foot addition featuring this coffee shop and a christian bookstore, which is one of the only ones in this area.  The church also has a fitness center, a youth center and more.

“Living in Central Pennsylvania there aren’t a lot of options.  So this provides that kind of option for lots of people,” Pastor Arlie Davis said.

Pastor Arlie Davis gave Newswatch 16 the grand tour of the $4 million expansion project. Christ Wesleyan Church has around 1,500 members, but the new amenities are open to anyone.  The fitness center costs $10 a month to work out.

“We already realize it’s not going to be a money-maker, and that’s not our intent.  Our intent is really that we can provide a service to our church community and our larger community as well,” Pastor Davis said.

One of the busiest areas in the expansion is the Kids Cube.  Pastor says at any given time there are dozens of kids going through the large jungle gym.  It works out great because their parents can sit outside and watch them.

“We love it. You can sit here and watch your kids play and talk with moms.  It’s really nice,” Justina Hinkle said.

“My granddaughter goes to kindergarten here at Meadowbrook Christian School so I come down here and hang out and get coffee, visit with friends and read,” Janet Bowersox said.

The coffee shop, fitness center and christian bookstore have been open since the end of July, but the official grand opening of the facility is this weekend.  There will be live music, a volleyball tournament and more.

http://wnep.com/2013/01/17/not-your-average-church/?utm_source=feedburner&utm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAg1rRbxrGY

What was that? At first, I thought it was a satire or parody.  Was that a real commercial?

No it IS real! There are ALOT of megachurches here in TX and Ive been
in one of them.

Yeah, churchianity is very bad, but you ain't seen nothin yet if you've
never been in these megachurches!

Btw, look at the symbols for this church logo at the end of this ad.
The wavy line looks like a serpent, and the W, turn it upside down and
it looks exactly like an M, which could stand for masonry.

well its real in that every church you go to is like that to a degree or another.

john 2:15 And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables; 16 And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.

The church like Corinth?

1 Corinthians 5:
1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

This Pastor will handle snakes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jpHIFlUlEC4

"Young pastor Andrew Hamblin CNN interview. Mark 16 believer, taking up serpents. An East TN serpent handler. These signs shall follow those that believe."

The local First Baptist in my city recently attended a Susan G. Komen breast cancer walk function.

Aren't "conservative" Baptist Christians supposed to be heavily anti-abortion/pro-family? Forget their Churchianity doctrines, b/c at least they've held to these values for a long, long time.

Guess you can chalk up this one as "not your average church".

 ;D Bet you never seen anything like that before down under!

My mother remembers as a child occasionally attending Primitive Baptist churches where they handled snakes in services. And apparently I have in my genealogy 2 brothers in my dad's line that were Primitive Baptist preachers in Kentucky back in the late 1700's. I'm guessing they did it too. But then I found 3 distant relatives that owned slaves as well, so I can't say my family has the best history!

There are lots of poisonous snakes in Australia, i haven't picked up a live one yet and i haven't thought of taking one to a congregation of saints to entertain people but perhaps that is a real Biblical thing i could do right? ;)


a snake is a good witnessing tool i mean come on, we should all have them wrapped around us as we preach to the lost, yeah :D

No sir, you are not Christian. You are demon possessed charismatics. That is why you are jerking back and forth and uttering that strange sound after you speak. Your demon worshiping congregation is seen doing the same thing. You really are a house of vipers.

"And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many." —Matthew 24:11

    "For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works." —2nd Corinthians 11:13-15.

Here in my neighborhood, there's a student or 2, in particular 1 student at the local university, that insists on parking in the neighborhood(near our house) b/c obviously he wants to save a few bucks from buying a parking decal at the univ. Yeah, I can emphathize with him as students' budgets are stretched thin, but nonetheless a parking decal is ONLY nothing more than a few or so extra bucks(if you know what I mean here).

Anyhow - there's a pastor of a local church in town that lets him park in front of his house b/c he insists how as a pastor(and Christians) we need to love others like this.

Well, for one, it's not good for outsider students park all over the neighborhood in front of people's homes b/c quite simply, it's not good for the neighborhood and neighbors(ie-takes up alot of space, and harder for people in the neighborhood to get around. And also not respectful for people at the univ just to park wherever they want to). If let's say the students park at a family member's house, that's fine, different story.

Yeah, this pastor probably has that Churchianity mindset(his church has the word "Community" in their name, a big red flag) - but nonetheless if he thinks just letting some stranger just park in front of his house is showing love, has he even read his bible? Shouldn't he be showing love toward his neighbor homes being a pastor, and being an example? And for that matter too, why not preach the gospel to that guy he's letting parking in front of his house?

Any thoughts on this pastor and what he's doing?

1Co 13:1  Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
1Co 13:2  And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
1Co 13:3  And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
1Co 13:4  Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
1Co 13:5  Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
1Co 13:6  Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
1Co 13:7  Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

1Peter 1:22  Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
1Pe 1:23  Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
1Pe 1:24  For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
1Pe 1:25  But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

Nothing other than he needs to examine himself whether he's in the faith.

An interesting case, some people could get saved in this scenario? i hope and pray that some lost people get saved somehow.

Just wondering - is church "membership" even biblical to begin with? Through my experiences in the modern-day church system, it's like a process - first you get saved, then when you're "sure" you're "ready"-you get your water baptism weeks later, then you're eligible for church membership. Uhm...didn't Paul say in Corinthians that we need to examine ourselves daily whether we be in the faith? Didn't Jesus say to search the scriptures to see if we have eternal life? Pt being that it's as if the modern-day church system, whether they realize it or not, acts like getting saved takes time to finalize. I mean you don't get your water baptism until you're SURE YOU'RE SAVED?

Also - the typical Churchianity SBC pastor nowdays will say how Christians need to be in church all day on Sundays(and come on Wednesdays), while avoiding all the "idolotries" like sports and movies. But en yet there's a BIG GAP between the 11am and 6pm services. So how are they in church all day when there's this long gap b/w seeing each other ???

And if they insist that our hearts need to be with God and church 100% on Sundays, then does this mean Christians can watch college football and "NCIS" marathon reruns all day on Saturdays, b/c Christians aren't under the OT sabbath law any more? :-\

Yeah, it seems like 99% of today's NT church isn't your average church.

 ;D No, they are not.

We know the whole church building thing is a lie. So that goes in one ear and out the other. They can babble that all day long and it means nothing.

"Church" membership biblical? Depends on how you put it. No, because we become sons and joint heirs, not members in the worldly sense. We are "members of one body" though.

"For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only [use] not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another." Galatians 5:13 (KJB)

Not sure how those groups do their memberships and determine if a person is ready to be baptized, but though they seem to take time in making sure a person is ready and serious, they don't feed them spiritually, and what they do feed them is garbage, so usually it seems they make sure the person understands how to be a member in their church, rules and all, rather than preaching salvation.

But yes, a person becoming saved isn't an overnight thing. The new believer needs to be fed spiritually milk (by a mature Christian who is experienced in the Word), so their faith and understanding can grow. As it says, "train up a child in the way he should go..."

Personally, I feel if a person wants a water baptism (full immersion), then so be it as it serves as a public declaration of the person's desire to repent and serve God, but they must learn that is NOT the baptism we get baptized with. It's a spiritual baptism of the Holy Ghost. Its circumcision of the heart and not of the letter. Then, after some time in the scriptures, at some point the person will with all their heart truly believe and will receive the Spirit "not many days hence".

Deciding that the bible is true, and wanting to be saved is just the start. We are truly born-again when we receive the Holy Ghost, which doesn't happen immediately, and it varies with each person as to how long that takes. But the person will know when it happens. God changes us when He gives us of His Spirit, and we are changed.

1  And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2  He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3  And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4  Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5  When they heard [this], they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6  And when Paul had laid [his] hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
Acts 19:1-6 (KJB)

First off, from what I read, 501c3 churches get special tax benefits if they perform functions like weddings and funerals(like in this article).

Anyhow - not sure if everyone's familiar with Van Cliburn, but he's a well known pianist who died last week, and is from my backyard here in North Texas(where the funeral was held). The article doesn't mention it, but the article in the Dallas Morning News today says he had a male "partner", and the church that did the funeral is called Broadway Baptist Church.

I know the love of money is the root of all evil, but it seems like the modern-day church, albeit in particular BAPTIST ones, now is getting desperate to market themselves to the world to get bigger pew numbers. And even worse honoring a homosexual, loved by the world celebrity shouldn't bode well either.

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/local-news/20130302-hundreds-pay-respects-to-pianist-van-cliburn-at-visitation-services-in-fort-worth.ece

3/2/13
Hundreds pay respects to pianist Van Cliburn at visitation services in Fort Worth

FORT WORTH — Hundreds of people attended a visitation for beloved concert pianist Van Cliburn on Saturday, recalling him not only as a giant of classical music but also as a warm individual who made a lasting impression on seemingly everyone he met.

The funeral will be held Sunday for Cliburn, 78, who died Wednesday of bone cancer at his mansion in Fort Worth’s Westover Hills suburb. His service, as was his visitation, will be at Broadway Baptist Church in Fort Worth.

José Feghali, winner of the 1985 Van Cliburn International Piano Competition, was among many who spoke effusively of Cliburn’s impact.

“I had grown up not only hearing him play, but also knowing the incredible story of him going to Russia and being an American and winning the competition,” Feghali said. “He’s beyond any other person I have known in the world of music and arts historically.”

Feghali, who was in the middle of a South American concert tour when he learned of Cliburn’s death, will serve as an honorary pallbearer Sunday.

A common recollection shared Saturday was how Cliburn left a lasting impression on those he spoke to.

“A personal relationship began with Van the moment you met,” said Tom Stoker, funeral chorus conductor and a friend of Cliburn’s since 1985.

Those moments, however brief, stuck with visitation guests, including 26-year-old Justin Anderson of Fort Worth.

“He’s so warm and so caring, even though he only spoke to me for several minutes,” said Anderson, who plays piano as a hobby. “And when he shakes your hands, he makes you feel tiny.”

Others agreed that Cliburn had tremendous charm.

“It’s almost impossible to describe what he meant to the symphony and to the classical music world,” said Fort Worth Symphony president Amy Adkins. She added: “Every time you spoke to him, he made you feel like you were the only person in the room.”

A 4-foot wreath from former President George W. Bush and his wife, Laura, sat on the altar behind Cliburn’s closed casket. Bush, who is scheduled to speak at Sunday’s funeral, awarded Cliburn the Presidential Medal of Freedom in 2003.

Before guests began filing into the sanctuary Saturday, a rehearsal of the music for Sunday’s funeral took place with Stoker as conductor.

His message to the orchestra was brief but powerful.

“We have all been able to make music in the chapel because of this man,” he said of Cliburn. “We stand on his shoulders, those tall, tall, tall, tall shoulders.”

After the rehearsal, Stoker reflected on Cliburn’s heart for music and the church.

“The generation is passing that understood what Van did to our lives,” Stoker said. “He launched the profession and orchestra into a new era. And we have all stood on his shoulders because of that.”

Stoker, one of many guest musicians and conductors for the funeral, said he is looking forward to the chance to honor his longtime friend.

“He told me, ‘Go live your dreams,’” Stoker said. “It is my greatest honor to do this [concert]. It is the last thing I can do through him.”

Just saw Broadway Baptist Church's web site...Yuck, to say the least! Mixing in alot of "contemporary" stuff with the traditional things. And to boot don't see any Christian symbols like crosses on their site as well.

As for them honoring Cliburn like he was some honorable man?

Luk 16:22  And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
Luk 16:23  And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luk 16:24  And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Luk 16:25  But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
Luk 16:26  And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
Luk 16:27  Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
Luk 16:28  For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
Luk 16:29  Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
Luk 16:30  And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
Luk 16:31  And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

When I got saved back in 2006, I started reading a lot of CS Lewis's books - didn't know he was a Luciferian at the time, but I was a math major in college, and he used a lot of the philosophy talk to try to get points across(which tickled my ears, to say the least).

Anyhow - in one of his writings, he said how the church(building) is where God's voice is heard, and Satan will do everything to keep people OUT of those buildings where God's voice is heard within.

Pt being that as you can see, even Luciferians like Lewis endorse the whole organized church building system. To be frank, don't recall him saying how the word of God(the bible) is where God's voice is heard instead.

When i think of CS Lewis i think of fables!

2 Timothy 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

1 Timothy 4:7 But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness.

Titus 1:14   Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

1 Timothy 1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

2 Peter 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

the word "fables" being 5 times in the KJV

(http://www.sjgames.com/inwo/subgenius/img/card2.jpg)

The Gospel of Bark: Sheboygan church unleashes dog-friendly services (with video, photos)

Some pastors will say there is no biblical support that all dogs go to heaven.

But the Rev. Ann Bullis, pastor at Wesley United Methodist Church, 823 Union Ave., said she believes the faithful pets will have a future heavenly home.

“Dogs go to heaven,” Bullis said. “What would (heaven) be without our dogs? Heaven is supposed to be a happy place.”

Not only do the animals have a place in heaven, she says, but they now also have a place among Wesley congregants on Sunday mornings.

The southside Sheboygan church allows congregants to bring their pets to the 9 a.m. Sunday church service and, so far, a handful of congregants have chosen to bring their dogs to worship, Bullis said.

“About two months ago (some congregants) came up to me and said, ‘Boy, I wish I could bring my pet to church. Can we bring our pets to church?’” Bullis said. “And we said, ‘Why not?’ We couldn’t come up with a reason why not.”

When she introduced the concept to the congregation, Bullis said no one had any qualms with the idea. Even the couple of congregants who have allergies weren’t bothered by it, she said, since the dog owners sit in the back of the church.

Louise Hansen, 62, one of the congregants who made the initial request of Bullis, said she and her husband have brought their Bichon Frisés, Libby and Dolly, to church on a couple of occasions.

“They’re very much a part of my life and I consider them familymembers,” Hansen said. “They’re a real blessing and God truly cares about animals. ... I always refer back to Noah and God saving his family and the animals from the flood and I always feel that animals reflect the unconditional love that God has for his children.”

Todd Hueppchen, 49, said his Golden Retriever, Diego, is like a family member to him as well and for that reason, he was happy to be able to bring him to church.

“He pretty much goes everywhere with me,” Hueppchen said. “I take him to the nursing home. We go on walks together every day and I work from home so he’s with me there, too. ... Now I can actually bring my dog (to church) and I don’t have to have him sit at home alone and he can be part of the whole thing.”

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2013306050511&nclick_check=1

Sometimes I wonder if our pets, and even the animals in this world will be in heaven with us.

While I can't find any scriptures to support it, at the same time I can't find any scriptures to say it won't happen.

Unbiblical Position: reverend, appears its a female leading a co-ed service, a male should be the pastor in that scenario.

39  All flesh [is] not the same flesh: but [there is] one [kind of] flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, [and] another of birds.
40  [There are] also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial [is] one, and the [glory] of the terrestrial [is] another.
41  [There is] one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for [one] star differeth from [another] star in glory.
1 Corinthians 15:39-41 (KJB)

Agreed, there is no mention of animals we know of that are, or go to, heaven. There are heavenly, angelic-type beings mentioned in Revelation, but those are not your standard animal.

"And the four beasts had each of them six wings about [him]; and [they were] full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come." Revelation 4:8 (KJB)

Personally, I don't think our "pets" go to heaven. As scripture says, they simply are different flesh, you might say a kind of pre-programmed creation designed to be nothing more than a dog, cat, cow, etc.

It's a New Age type ideology that pushes animals having souls. I see zero evidence in scripture to suggest such nonsense. Feelings and emotions, sure. Yes, they definitely feel pain, etc, but that isn't an indication to me of a soul in an animal.

20  And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl [that] may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
21  And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that [it was] good.
22  And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
23  And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
24  And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
25  And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that [it was] good.
26  And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27  So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28  And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29  And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which [is] upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which [is] the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
30  And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein [there is] life, [I have given] every green herb for meat: and it was so.
31  And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, [it was] very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
Genesis 1:20-31 (KJB)

19  And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought [them] unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that [was] the name thereof.
20  And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
Genesis 2:19,20 (KJB)

17  Bring forth with thee every living thing that [is] with thee, of all flesh, [both] of fowl, and of cattle, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth; that they may breed abundantly in the earth, and be fruitful, and multiply upon the earth.
18  And Noah went forth, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him:
19  Every beast, every creeping thing, and every fowl, [and] whatsoever creepeth upon the earth, after their kinds, went forth out of the ark.
20  And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.
21  And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart [is] evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.
22  While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.
Genesis 8:17-22 (KJB)

From what I read, if it's any indication, it may be that animals are made from the earth like man, but that's the only similarities I find so far.

^^

That is a good answer with the verses. Heaven is all about the Lord, there are angels, saints, precious stones, mansions, but these are not the main focus, the Lord is very important in Heaven and it will be about praising and serving Him, it does not matter if there are animals there or not, if someone asks you are there animals in Heaven? Just say: please tell me more about the Lord.

Cowboy Church: With Rodeo Arena, They 'Do Church Different'

It's Sunday morning at the Cowboy Church of Santa Fe County, N.M. You know you're there because of the chuck wagon parked by the highway.

You couldn't find a more nonreligious-looking building. The church is a charmless metal warehouse on a concrete slab. Inside, the altar is decorated like a set from a 1950s western — complete with saddles, hats, boots, a lasso and wagon wheel.

The band has just kicked off with "I Think God Must Be a Cowboy at Heart," and about 30 people in folding chairs are tapping their feet.

The pastor, Steve "Doc" Timmons, a husky, 57-year-old Arkansan in jeans, boots and a straw hat, announces the theme of the sermon. "So here's this morning's eight-second ride," he tells the congregants. "The history books of the Old Testament make one thing crystal clear: It is impossible for man to keep the Mosaic law."

Steve "Doc" Timmons is pastor of the Cowboy Church of Santa Fe County, N.M.. "In a lot of ways it's what you would call unchurchy," he says of the cowboy church movement.
John Burnett/NPR

There's no collection plate, no stained glass and no altar call to give your life to Jesus. But only a few folks in the congregation look like they ever sat on a horse. The rest could be baristas or CPAs, attired in jeans and bolo ties.

'A Total Lack Of Pretentiousness'

"It was finding a home for me after going to a lot of different churches through the years," says Steve Meador, 63, a Teamster and wrangler for the movie industry, who is leaning against a post outside. He's been coming to the Santa Fe Cowboy Church for two years, making him a founding member.

"What I found with this Cowboy Church is a group of people that are very serious about their relationship with Jesus Christ, and a total lack of pretentiousness," Meador says.

Indeed, no one here is in their Sunday best. "People are so friendly, you don't have to dress like you're going to a celebrity ball. Just come as you are. You just let your faith come out," says Martha Cannon, a state telephone operator and great-grandmother wearing a denim prairie skirt.

Timmons spent 25 years as a crisis intervention consultant working in disaster zones around the world. This is his first pulpit, and he says he wouldn't be anywhere else.

"In a lot of ways, it's what you would call unchurchy. It's a simple way of doing church. It's more about relationship than it is about religion. And I think that's why these churches have been exploding," Timmons says.

Nobody actually knows how many cowboy churches there are, because, by nature, this house of worship is — like its namesake — ruggedly independent. A website directory of cowboy churches lists more than 400 in 36 states, but church leaders say there are many more than that. They range from the Hope Corral Cowboy Church in Milton, Fla., to the Cowboy Church of Anchorage, Alaska, to the Barbwire Halo Cowboy Church in Gilmer, Texas. What's more, there are eight cowboy churches in Canada and two in Australia.

Attracting Non-Churchgoers

Texas has far more than any other state. There are so many cowboy churches in the Lone Star State that Baylor University's Truett Seminary and Dallas Baptist University now offer courses in cowboy church leadership.

"Cowboy church is a little unconventional," says Rick Penner, associate pastor of Open Range Cowboy Church in Whitney, northwest of Waco. "Our sanctuary is really situated more like a barn than a fancy church building. Ours is built out of barn wood and steel. Up until recently we had hay bales for people to sit on, but the scorpions got a little bad in there with the hay bales."

A distinguishing feature of a cowboy church is the rodeo arena on the grounds. Conventional churches have family life centers; most cowboy churches have places to rope and ride. At Open Range Cowboy Church, two of the most popular activities are barrel racing and junior sheep riding, known as "mutton busting."

"Little kids, under 55 pounds, they put on helmets and vests and ... when they ride that sheep, these little boys are living their 6-year-old dream as a cowboy," Penner says with a chuckle.

Cowboy churches solve a problem for evangelical churches suffering from sagging attendance. They attract the "unchurched": those who never went to church or stopped going long ago.

In Texas, traditional Baptist churches have been planting new cowboy churches across town, and in some instances the new congregation has outdistanced the parent church. In Waxahachie, south of Dallas, First Baptist Church — with an attendance of 500 — started the Cowboy Church of Ellis County, which now has a Sunday attendance of 1,700. It is now known as the world's largest Cowboy Church.

Cowboy churches are not for everybody, but whatever they're doing, it appears to be catching on in a big way.

"One thing about the traditional churches is they're going to have to change if they're going to survive," says Charles Higgs, coordinator of the Western Heritage program for Texas Baptists, which has helped fund many cowboy churches. "They're going to have to go beyond their walls and do church different."

http://www.npr.org/2013/09/01/217268202/cowboy-church-with-rodeo-arena-they-do-church-different?ft=1&f=1016&utm

Yeah, Cowboy Churches seem to be growing in popularity here in Texas over the last 5 or so years - I remember reading about it in the paper 4 years ago, and they do things that are pretty questionable(at best). One of the things they do is LIMIT the pastor's sermon to only 30 minutes. This has been one of the big problems of having a church building, in general - b/c they have to please everyone, they have time limits on just about everything.


Which is a GOOD thing on their part(as much as I hate to say it) - "tithing" is unbiblical to begin with, and those offering plates only push them against their wills to give so. Alter calls are unbiblical as well, b/c it's only the Holy Spirit that draws the person, and not man.

With that being said - this pretty much has been the game of the Emergent/Postmodernism philosophies - to go against EVERYTHING these "traditional" church buildings have done for years and years. So pretty much you can see a Hegelian Dialectic going on b/w these "traditional" church buildings and these "postmodernism" church buildings.


"unchurched" as been a buzzword the Emergent/Postmodernism theologies have used - the word in the KJV is LOST. If someone is not a believer of what Jesus Christ did on the cross, shedding his blood to pay for our sin debt in full, then he/she is LOST.

And also - this seems to be a pattern in our present day going on - while some of these "traditional" church buildings(whether they're SBC, Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, or any of the "older" Protestant denominations) have declined in attendance, a lot of these seeker-sensitive megachurches, Cowboy Churches, "social justice" churches, and pretty much anything that is *New* have INCREASED in attendance.

Pretty much while one reprobate system has declined, another more reprobate system has increased.

Bibles and Booze: Congregations Across America Attempting to Attract New Members With Beer

A new report released by NPR outlines that a number of congregations across America are now using beer as a way to attract new members.
 
The effort is an experiment in finding methods that will appeal to those who otherwise would not set foot in a church. Some beer-based gatherings are held right in the the church building, and others are hosted at the local pub.
 
One of the locations highlighted in the report is Fort Worth, Texas, where Church-in-a-pub, sponsored by “Pastor” Phil Heinze of Calvary Lutheran Church, is held each week at the local bar.
 
“I find the love, I find the support, I find the non-judgmental eyes when I come here,” attendee Leah Stanfield told the publication. “And I find friends that love God [and] love craft beer.”

Approximately 30-40 people meet for the weekly gathering, which includes Bible readings, fellowship and communion–all over pizza and beer at Zio Carlo pub.
 
The Regional Council of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America recently recognized Church-in-a-pub as a synodically authorized worshiping community. In 2014, another area “pastor” plans to expand the concept throughout the Dallas/Fort Worth area.
 
While Calvary Lutheran Church holds their gathering in a bar, the First Christian Church of Portland, Oregon hosts a monthly “beer and hymns” night at the church building, where congregants get together to sing hymns, talk and drink beer.

NPR tells the story of one transgender attendee who got up to speak at a recent event, announcing that he was raised in a church that told him that animals don’t have souls. However, because his dog had recently died, he wanted to sing a song that night in church in honor of his dog.
 
“I want to sing this song in defiance of that because Gunner was my friend,” he stated to those gathered as they sipped beer. “And he has emotions and a personality, and I had a relationship with him that’s as real as any relationship I had with any human being.”
 
The Wall Street Journal covered a similar story earlier this year in highlighting the new trend, introducing its readers to a Saturday night gathering held by Pastor Matt Bistayi, who started Valley Church in Allendale, Michigan.
 
“My name is Darin,” the music director announced to those present. “And I like me a 30-pack of Busch Light!”
 
The group, which holds to the motto, ”What Would Jesus Brew?” then began to applaud.
 
For some congregations, instead of beer, cigars are offered to potential members. As previously reported, Eric Van Scyoc of St. Thomas Lutheran Church in Rocky River, Ohio calls his gathering the “Smokin’ Bible Study,” where men assemble in the back room of Cigar Cigars and smoke stogies as they study the word of God. He says that he has been leading the studies at the location for approximately three years.
 
“It’s a chance to bring the Bible out from the walls of the church,” Van Scyoc told The Plain Dealer.
 
He explained that when he was approached by the owner of Cigar Cigars to lead the study, he was reluctant at first, but since no one in the church had a problem with the idea, he accepted.
 
“Some women have said to us, ‘I’m going to come by because it shouldn’t be just for men,’” Van Scyoc explained. “They’re certainly welcome, but so far, none of them have come by.”
 
However, some pastors have expressed great concern and caution over increasing attempts to reinvent church—using carnal methods to attract men.
 
“Rather than relating with people by becoming like people, the Church is to present the glory of God,” Scott Brown of the Center for Family Integrated Churches told Christian News Network. “When people come into the church, they should see a completely new kingdom, a completely new community. They should see how different God is than they are and how much more wonderful He is, and how His ways are much more beautiful than their ways.”
 
Pastor Eric Ludy, President of Ellerslie Mission Society, has made similar statements in expressing his concerns about the Church seeking to attract the world by appearing “cool.”
 
“The problem is Jesus wasn’t cool. Whether we want to acknowledge it or not, Jesus didn’t do it the world’s way. He came in and offended the world,” he told reporters. “He came in and did everything the wrong way. … We actually want to indict Jesus and say, ‘You know what? If you had known as much as we know you would have done it differently.’ We want to appeal to the world’s sensibilities and somehow draw them to the Gospel. Jesus didn’t do any of that.”
 
“The Bible says, ‘Raise Him up and He will draw all men unto Himself,’” he continued. “The key is we lift up the Gospel. We give the straight and narrow path. We give it undiluted and people will start respecting us because we are not giving them something that will tantalize the flesh. We are giving them something that will bring life to their spirit.”

http://christiannews.net/2013/11/03/bibles-and-booze-congregations-across-america-attempting-to-attract-new-members-with-beer/

 :D Look who's talking!

Believers gathering doesn't have a specific definition of how it's done outside of it simply being people coming together in a group for fellowship. It's not suppose to be a gathering for the sake of ritual and ceremony ("...this is not to eat the Lord's supper"), but believers associating with each other. And it doesn't matter where that happens, be it a private residence, or a bar. The problem with these type groups is that they are just another denomination of churchianity, and they are in fact trying to reinvent "church", in an attempt to get more members that they call "converts", which I call paying customers.

(http://s7.postimg.org/65b8d28tn/1422442_614033748679976_2029607090_n.jpg)

I remember back in the 80's when I was attending a big SBC church as a young boy - that "church" had a lot of these nice-looking shuttle buses. I didn't think much of it then, but over time, I've always wondered how they were able to afford these. It wasn't just one or 2 of them, it was a number of them.

And when I was younger in the late 70's, they would send school buses around neighborhoods in the city on Sundays to pick up kids to go to Sunday School at one of the local "churches". I didn't think much of it then, but over time, it bewildered me how they gave this "ignore the parents" message to children(and it was still during the time when the divorce rates were low, and mothers stayed home full time).

Yeah, fast-forward to our present day, they are really, really targeting the youth all out - pretty much all of these pastors at these megachurches are praised largely for this..."helping the 'troubled' youth".

This church holds naked services

If you’re Christian and like going to services but have always been bummed out by the whole clothing-mandatory element of most churches, then you need to learn about this place in Ivor, Virginia. WWBT NBC 12 News is reporting on the White Tail Chapel, a congregation that does their thing in the buff.

So why pray naked? Pastor Allen Parker told WWBT it’s, “about baring his soul to Christ and leading his flock down that path of righteousness, no matter what they’re wearing.” He also told the station, “There's not a feeling that you have to be better than one another, physically. We're humans, we have scars, we have what we have…it's learning to love and accept that."

It seems like there is a devoted group of people who regularly attend, not minding the chilly winter weather. Katie and Robert Church are two of those regulars. Katie emphasized that the church has a strong sense of community. Robert pointed out that by stripping down, people become equal, “There are people that have great means, great wealth, there’s people that don’t. But, you wouldn’t know, and everybody treats everybody, you know, equally. You could really say the naked Churches enjoy this naked church.

The church is located on a nudist resort in Ivor. WWBT mentioned that during the summer, it gets so crowded that services are often standing room only.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/oddnews/this-church-holds-naked-services-221524042.html;_ylt=AwrBEiT0UflSf3cArqLQtDMD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFfTLkFhhuQ

Looks like this "let's love others, be in unity, and we can agree and disagree" attitude is showing its really rotten fruits in these Babel church buildings - it's not only this example(posted above, that is), but there's many other examples where they have this attitude, and end up not preaching the word at all.

Not surprised at all that this "church" doing this stuff exists now.

‘Drive-In’ Church Allows Christians to Worship in an Uncommon Way

A Florida church is taking an uncommon approach to biblical teaching, as parishioners listen to Bible-based messages from the comfort of their vehicles each week rather than entering a physical house of worship.

Members of Daytona Beach Drive In Christian Church in Daytona Beach Shores, Fla., drive to an outdoor location, park facing an altar and tune in to a preset radio station every Sunday to hear their pastor’s message.

Members even participate in communion from the comfort of their cars, listening to directions on their radios about how and when to partake in the “body and blood of Christ.”

The church operates at the site of an old drive-in movie theater.

Some may balk at the uncommon nature of drive-in services. Pastor Bob Kemp-Baird was even initially a bit skeptical when he first arrived at the church, but his views eventually changed, reported NPR.

Some members told the outlet that the Daytona Beach Drive In Christian Church affords them much-needed privacy that they can’t get at other churches.

Consider Shirley Oenbrink, a parishioner who is now in remission after battling stage 4 cancer. As she struggles with recovery, she said she enjoys the privacy of her vehicle, where she can cry without judgement.

“It the time to let the tears flow and you don’t get questioned,” she told NPR. “I don’t like for people to feel sorry for me. And when I cry, my eyes get big, my nose swells up.”

Find out more about the Daytona Beach Drive In Christian Church here.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/03/05/drive-in-church-allows-christians-to-worship-in-an-uncommon-way/

Since the late 90's when mega-movie theaters started getting popular, effectively pushing out all of the ordinary, smaller movie houses, I've always wondered what happened to these drive-in movie theaters. The last one I was aware of, they closed it down shortly after the 21st century.

Well, looks like their properties didn't exactly go away(meaning they didn't turn into parking lots).

Come to think of it, a couple of megachurches I know of in my area started out at meeting at these small movie houses.(where they rented the space)


No surprise - as these church building pastors like this guy have a love for money.

can you expand on that answer a little? I mean isnt his church a little similar to what we do here? I dont go to a building, but listen to sermons and teachings at my own leisure. These people are just a little different, i actually kind of like the idea, except i think they would get even less personal fellowship than we do here. hmmm. 
 

I would think that buying/renting out these pieces of property are NOT cheap(these former drive-in theaters properties, that is) - it's been a long time since I've even seen a drive-in movie theater(I went to one in the Akron/Canton, Ohio area in the 1980's), but nonetheless these properties are pretty big and spacious.

And like I mentioned, I've seen churches rent out movie theaters on Sundays, which isn't exactly all that cheap either. Ultimately, when the price tags are higher, that's when they're forced to compromise more and more.

how did the love of money fit? usually these type of places dont have any money. Not every pastor is in it for the money.


we used to have quite a few, now there is 1 that i know of still around, and another im not sure of. I remember going to them all the time.

If these places are good to worship at, then yes, I have no problems with it - but I ended up coming to this conclusion with all of the other heretical stuff going on.

But yeah, if this is bearing good fruit, then I'm pleased this is working out.


When I was there in 2002, I remember seeing that same one I think that I went to once in the 80's. I visited Akron/Canton a couple of more times since(my dad's family resides there), the last being 3 years ago.

If I may...

Don't forget, "the love of money is the root of all evil". It's always because of that when there is evil.

True, not all are openly motivated by money, but the evil is not limited to cash money. It's about the love of increase, a lack of contentment in what God has provided. Churchianity pastors choose the profession for an income, as they use the excuse, "To provide for my house and family". Did God say that He would provide for His own IF they ran a church building? Nope. God DOES SAY, "Having food and raiment let us therewith be content". Jesus says to preach the gospel. While the body is exhorted to not forsake the gathering together of believers, it never once says for men to take on the position and title of a preacher, "for filthy lucre".

The body of believers is suppose to provide material support to those in the ministry full time, but never does it say there is to be a salary, car allowances, travel expenses, etc. Even Jesus says that "they say and do not". So clearly, churchianity pastors are wrong, thus spreading lies, based on a lack of faith, which ultimately is the love of money.

If your not teaching or acting according to sound doctrine, is that not evil? And is not all evil born of the love of money? I say yes on both accounts.

This "church" uses the name of Jesus and is deceiving THOUSANDS of TEENS and COLLEGE STUDENTS who think they are walking with our Lord. Please pray for them...

Wikipedia: Mosaic Church in Hollywood

Excerpt:
Transitional years
In October 1991, Erwin McManus was first introduced to The Church on Brady as the keynote speaker at Brady’s Spare Not Conference on World Evangelism. He was then invited to move to The Church on Brady and Los Angeles to transition into the role of Senior Pastor.

Early in 1994, McManus officially became Senior Pastor. Wolf then moved into the role of "Teaching Pastor" and simultaneously accepted a teaching position at Golden Gate Seminary in San Francisco.

Born in El Salvador, McManus had moved at an early age[citation needed] to the United States with his family. He brought 15 years experience as urban church planter[citation needed], evangelist, and speaker.

McManus built on the foundation set at Brady. Multi-media was the new tool in churches at the time. McManus encouraged use of these new tools making greater use of art and dance as weekly components of worship. Regular night-time services became part of the landscape.

A new name was sought with "Mosaic" being the accepted choice.[3] It was at this time that the Sunday night service was moved to the Club Soho, a nightclub in downtown L.A. (relocating several years later to the Mayan Theatre in downtown L.A.). Mosaic became a single church with multiple sites. In 2003 the property on Brady street was sold making Mosaic independent of land ownership.

§Mosaic today[edit]
Mosaic has been mentioned as one the "top 50 most influential churches in the nation"[4] and has approximately 60 nationalities in attendance.[5] In January 2012,[6] Mosaic started holding its worship services in Hollywood.[7] Associated Press called Mosaic a "hipster megachurch", describing it as a "congregation full of hip twenty-somethings who mostly work in the film industry... (more)

Ohio Pastor Rides Bulls Inside His Church to Attract New Believers

 In front of a packed church, Pastor Lawrence Bishop II, climbed up on the back of a snorting, anxious bull named Bonecrusher. The animal was let loose, and Bishop hung on tight as he was bucked around the ring he built inside his Ohio church. He lasted about three seconds before being thrown off and trampled.

Battered and bruised, the 48-year-old preacher then picked himself up, climbed to safety and began his sermon. When he asked new believers to come forward to be baptized, the response was huge and about 300 people stepped up.

This was just a Wednesday night service at the Solid Rock Church in Monroe, Ohio.

 Bishop's church is easy to spot. It's the one with the 52-foot statue of Jesus facing I-75, nicknamed "Hug Me Jesus," because of his open arms.

Embracing new believers is why the ministry decided to bring bull riding inside the church's walls.

"You know, the Bible said to compel them to come in, and so that's what we're doing," Bishop told "Nightline." "It didn't say how to compel them. It just said compel them to come in, so ... this is a tool."

The battle to save souls is fiercely competitive. A recent Pew survey on religion found that roughly 23 percent of the U.S. population is unaffiliated with any organized religion, and people who identity as Christian within the religious population fell from 78.4 percent to 70.6 percent from 2007 to 2014.

So, some preachers across the country are trying to find new ways to attract more to their flock. Some use mixed martial arts, hip-hop and Christian rock bands.

But Solid Rock Church has been breaking the mold for 40 years.

"The Bible says to be, 'Wise as a serpent and harmless as a dove,'" Bishop said. "It also said, 'He that winneth souls is wise.' So these bulls are going to attract people that otherwise would never set foot in a church house."

Bishop's late father, Lawrence Bishop, Sr., founded the church with his wife, Darlene, decades ago. The couple were horse people before that, their LB Ranch is one of the country's foremost breeders of American quarter horses. The church came later.

"Solid Rock is fun," Darlene Bishop said. "It's not like going some place and you dread doing it, and you think, 'Well, it's over for the week now. I have to wait 'till next Sunday.' People love to come to church. It's an exciting place."

Darlene Bishop was also one of the stars of the Christian TV show, "Sisters," a sort of Born Again version of "The View." She lives in the lavish ranch house she built with her late husband overlooking the horse farm.

"I don't know if many churches have a cowboy for a preacher, but it sure makes it exciting because there was never a dull moment with my husband or my son that has taken his place," she said. "We call our church an extreme church because we don't do anything just normal. My husband used to say the seven last words of a dying church is 'never seen it done this way before,' and so that's what we're known for is doing things to extreme."

Before he took over the church for his father, Lawrence the second was a professional bull rider, and it was his idea to pull the bull-riding ring inside the church. But even his own mother said she "thought he was crazy" when he first suggested it.

"I don't have very many talents other than riding stuff that bucks or play[ing] music," Lawrence Bishop said. "So I've used both to spread the gospel to ... try to bring people to Jesus."

rest of this circus : http://abcnews.go.com/US/ohio-pastor-rides-bulls-inside-church-attract-believers/story?id=31156025

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NknV5JfnaLY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdV0DrTCuTI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7WFQpNidUM