Target Syria NWO's next acquisition The Middle East- WW III - Muslim Civil War

[Mark]

People have really been pushing back against this lately. The problem with it is, that Damascus, has never become a ruinous heap and stopped being a city. Has it been attacked? yes, but never completely destroyed to where its a ruinous heap. It's never happened. And that is where the prophecy is at this day. Also the The cities of Aroer were still standing in Eusebius's time, around 340 AD, that's well after the 7th and 8th century they claim the prophecy was fulfilled.

so.... What we can clearly see is that Damascus was not destroyed and made a ruinous heap and the cities of Aroer were still in use as far back as 340 ad. Also i don't put any faith in the teachings of Sam Adams.

[Psalm 51:17]

People have really been pushing back against this lately. The problem with it is, that Damascus, has never become a ruinous heap and stopped being a city. Has it been attacked? yes, but never completely destroyed to where its a ruinous heap. It's never happened. And that is where the prophecy is at this day. Also the The cities of Aroer were still standing in Eusebius's time, around 340 AD, that's well after the 7th and 8th century they claim the prophecy was fulfilled.

so.... What we can clearly see is that Damascus was not destroyed and made a ruinous heap and the cities of Aroer were still in use as far back as 340 ad. Also i don't put any faith in the teachings of Sam Adams.

Adams is a good friend of Scott's(like Scott - Adams, Derek Dreamer, and Slattery are from FL, and they pretty much became close friends b/c they're KJV-only and anti-501c3). The only reason why I posted Adams' sermon here was b/c it was in Scott's email newsletter the other day, and it caught my attention, and just needed some feedback.

Thank you all for the info.

[Mark]

Adams is a good friend of Scott's(like Scott - Adams, Derek Dreamer, and Slattery are from FL, and they pretty much became close friends b/c they're KJV-only and anti-501c3). The only reason why I posted Adams' sermon here was b/c it was in Scott's email newsletter the other day, and it caught my attention, and just needed some feedback.

Thank you all for the info.

oh i know who he is, i just dont put any stock into his research skills.

[Psalm 51:17]

oh i know who he is, i just dont put any stock into his research skills.

Me either - doctrinally he's OK, but some of his research(like the Damascus one) is pretty flawed.

[Psalm 51:17]

Was doing a quick research on Damascus...

Just quickly glanced through this wiki link on Damascus - didn't say anything about it being literally destroyed(or being a ruinous heap for that matter). However the end of this caught my eye...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damascus

Threats to the future of the old City[edit]

Due to the rapid decline of the population of Old Damascus (between 1995–2005 more than 20,000 people moved out of the old city for more modern accommodation), a growing number of buildings are being abandoned or are falling into disrepair. In March 2007, the local government announced that it would be demolishing Old City buildings along a 1,400-metre (4,600 ft) stretch of rampart walls as part of a redevelopment scheme. These factors resulted in the Old City being placed by the World Monuments Fund on its 2008 Watch List of the 100 Most Endangered Sites in the world. It is hoped that its inclusion on the list will draw more public awareness to these significant threats to the future of the historic Old City of Damascus.


Quickly glanced through the New World Encyclopedia source, and while it says it was destroyed, they didn't elaborate any further(it sounds like their context was it was merely taken over)...

http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Damascus

Damascus (دمشق transliteration: Dimashq, also commonly known as al-Shām) is the capital and largest city of Syria. It is thought to be among the oldest continuously inhabited cities in the world. Its current population is estimated at about 4.5 million. The city is a governorate (administrative district) by itself, and the capital of the governorate of Rif Dimashq ("rural Damascus"). Damascus lies in the Ghutah oasis, and is fed with water from the Barada River.

Damascus was the capital of the Aramean Kingdom beginning in the eleventh century B.C.E. and was engaged in several wars against the Hebrew kingdoms of Israel and Judah. In 732 B.C.E., Tiglath Pileser II of Assyria claimed the city, a major conquest which later enabled the defeat of Israel and most of Judah. Later, Damascus was destroyed by Babylon. In 333 B.C.E., the Greeks took it from the Persians. It was the controlled by the Seleucids, and in 66 B.C.E. it was conquered for Rome by Pompey. In early Christian history, it was on the way to Damascus that Saint Paul experienced his dramatic conversion experience.

Damascus later became a base for the Byzantine Empire but fell to the Muslims under Khaled Ibn al Waleed in 636 C.E. Under Islam, it became the capital of the Umayyad Empire, spreading from the Atlantic coast to central Asia. This "golden age" ended with the Abbassids, who moved the capital to Baghdad. From then on, Damascus was ruled by various Muslim sovereigns, most importantly the Egyptian Fatimids. Saladin took it from the Fatimids and started the Ayyubid Dynasty, battling effectively against the Crusaders. Numerous monuments built by Nur al Din and Saladin are still the pride of Damascus.

In 1260, the Mamluks of Egypt pushed the Mongols back and took the city. In 1516, the Ottomans Turks conquered Damascus and held it until they were defeated in World War I. The Syrian National Congress was formed in 1919, with Emir Faisal named King of Syria in 1920, then one month later it was taken over by the French in the name of the League of Nations. After several uprisings, Syria achieved full independence in 1946.

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Again, destroy and destruction doesn't necessarily mean literally burn(or nuke) the entire land to where it's burned up and there's no inhabitants - for example, the destruction of America is happening now, as it's being taken over by globalists.

[Psalm 51:17]

http://1828.mshaffer.com/d/word/destroy

destroy

DESTROY, v.t. [L. To pile, to build.]

1. To demolish; to pull down; to separate the parts of an edifice, the union of which is necessary to constitute the thing; as, to destroy a house or temple; to destroy a fortification.

2. To ruin; to annihilate a thing by demolishing or by burning; as, to destroy a city.

3. To ruin; to bring to naught; to annihilate; as, to destroy a theory or scheme; to destroy a government; to destroy influence.

4. To lay waste; to make desolate.
Go up against this land, and destroy it. Is. 36.

5. To kill; to slay; to extirpate; applied to men or other animals.
Ye shall destroy all this people. Num. 32.
All the wicked will he destroy. Ps. 145.

6. To take away; to cause to cease; to put an end to; as, pain destroys happiness. <-- I believe this is the context the New World Encyclopedia is talking about, as Damascus was taken over by Babylon.

That the body of sin might be destroyed. Rom 6.

7. To kill; to eat; to devour; to consume. Birds destroy insects. Hawks destroy chickens.

8. In general, to put an end to; to annihilate a thing or the form in which it exists. An army is destroyed by slaughter, capture or dispersion; a forest, by the ax, or by fire; towns, by fire or inundation, &c.

9. In chimistry, to resolve a body into its parts or elements.

[Psalm 51:17]

Let's look at Isaiah 17:1 again...

Isaiah 17:1  The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from [being] a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap.


Damascus is TAKEN AWAY from BEING a city. What does "taken away" mean? Let's say, for example, my house was broken into and my tv was stolen. Even though my insurance will cover it, nonetheless that PARTICULAR tv is GONE from my possession(IOW, I no longer own it). And notice the word "being" emphasized by the KJB translators. This word is very important b/c it has a continuing present tense, and not just merely a present tense.

Matthew_13:12  For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

Just looking at what the text is saying - isn't it pretty obvious that once this city is taken away from being a city, it means it will not be in existence anymore? So if it's really the case that Damascus was taken away and became a ruinous heap during OT times(or during early NT times), then why has this city been standing for 1000s of years? I've yet to see anything where this prophecy has happened in their 1000s of years of history.

And yes, Mark is right - Churchianity has been pushing for peace in Syria. I've yet to hear anyone waving their pom-poms for Syria to be bombed. And for that matter too, people on this forum like Mark and myself(and Scott in his recent audios) have exposed the lies by the Obama administration over this.


FYI, look at how the NIV mis-translates this verse...

Isaiah 17:1 A prophecy against Damascus: See, Damascus will no longer be a city but will become a heap of ruins.(NIV)


Look how SUBTLE this is -

1) They DELETE the word "being" in it - pt being that the word "being" has a continuous present tense, which is why this word is important in this verse. Ultimately the city of Damascus will stop continuing being a city once it's taken away. See the point here?

2) A "ruinous heap" has a MUCH different meaning than a "heap of ruins" - for example, let's say a bunch of robbers break into my house and completely vandalize it while I'm on vacation. Pt being that while it will look like a COMPLETE mess inside, the OUTSIDE of my house will STILL look like its pretty self. Hence you can say my vandalized house is a "heap of ruins". And also - the KJB "ruinous heap" talks about ONE entity, whereas "heap of ruins" talks about many *little* entities, which ends up creating a lot of confusion.

On the contrary, if let's say an airplane crashes into my home, then it WOULD be a RUINOUS HEAP. See the difference?

3) _Taken from being a city_ also has a much different meaning from _will no longer be a city_ - for example, when I used to live in New Orleans, Katrina happened in the last year I was there. No, it didn't exactly stop its continuing from being the city of New Orleans, but nonetheless the damage was so tremendous that it's no longer the city IT USED TO BE(and will likely be another generation before it returns to the former New Orleans). Again, another VERY SUBTLE change by the NIV translators to deceive you tremendously.

4) Look how they delete "The burden" from the KJB, to "A prophecy" - the big mis-translation here is they replace "a" with "the" - again, ANOTHER big change by the NIV translators. For example, when you use "a" instead of "the" before a noun, it almost completely changes the meaning of it. "A" prophecy? Sounds like it's just a MERE semi-important prophecy. Vs "The" burden? Yeah - there is a TREMENDOUS burden on Damascus.


The reason why I'm talking about the NIV translation here is that when you compare it to the KJB - it sure looks like the Vatican NIV translators did one heck of a job trying to water it down to make it look like this prophecy happened centuries, or even 1000s of years ago.


2Peter 1:20  Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2Pe 1:21  For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as [they were] moved by the Holy Ghost.

[Mark]

UN probes new alleged chemical weapons attacks in Syria

UN inspectors are investigating seven alleged chemical weapons attacks in Syria - three of which happened after the 21 August Damascus incident that led to threats of US military action.   

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-24301618

[Kilika]

from 1828 Websters...

ruinous

RU'INOUS, a. [l. ruinosus.]

    1. Fallen to ruin; entirely decayed; demolished; dilapidated; as an edifice, bridge or wall in a ruinous state.

    2. Destructive; baneful; pernicious; bringing or tending to bring certain ruin. Who can describe the ruinous practice of intemperance?

    3. Composed of ruins; consisting in ruins; as a ruinous heap. Is. 17.

Now that isn't the end all definition. It's best to take as many verses as possible to compare to see what the intent of the word use is. Personally, I don't think scripture is saying that the city would be wiped off the map. It seems to me that is talking about a city that is brought down to not operating functionally as a city. To me, that doesn't mean the people go away and the city is leveled. People can still be living there and the city is still there, yet the official city is no longer operating administratively. It effectively is in ruins.

The world claims that Damascus is the oldest continuously populated city in the world. To me, that doesn't conflict with scripture.

Consider also all the scriptures that mention Jerusalem would be destroyed and overrun. Multiple times, and multiple times God has repented of His anger towards Jerusalem and Israel.

It seems a bit subjective as to how people define words, so this to me is another example of people arguing over "secondary" topics of bible prophecy. Certain people spend time over stuff like this when they really need to examine themselves whether they are in the faith.

Belief comes first, then the gift of the Holy Ghost, then one can start to understand prophecy.

2 Peter 1:20?

Yea and Amen.

[Christian40]

2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

i believe what Isaiah said. Amen.

[Christian40]

Syrian President Bashar al-Assad Says He Has Fooled US President Obama

"Embattled Syrian President Bashar al-Assad says that he does not need chemical weapons to “challenge Israel” and “blind [it] in an instant,” according to recent remarks reported in the Arab media.

As Western inspectors prepare to enter Syria next week, Assad renewed his threats on Israel and boasted of weapons that are “more sophisticated than chemical weapons,” according to remarks published by Lebanon’s Al-Akhbar news site and carried throughout the Arab media.

“We now possess deterrent weapons that are more important and more sophisticated than chemical weapons,” Assad was quoted as telling visitors to his presidential palace late Thursday, according to Iran’s state-run Mehr News Agency.

Assad has made increasingly threatening and erratic statements in recent weeks as rebel forces continue their fight to bring down his regime.

Syria originally created chemical weapons in an effort to combat Israel, Assad said, adding that the current situation in his country has “never been better.”

“We created chemical weapons in the ’80s as a deterrent against Israel’s nuclear arsenal,” he said. “Today, it is no longer a weapon of deterrence.”

Assad vowed to use other weapons to attack Israel once Western inspectors seize his massive stash of chemical arms.

“We have weapons that are more important and more sophisticated to challenge Israel, which we can blind in an instant,” he said, revealing that “there are thousands of tons of chemical weapons” in his country.

“In Syria, there are thousands of tons of chemical weapons that have become a burden to us since their destruction costs a great deal of money and could take years to destroy,” he said.

These chemical arms “create environmental challenges and others that would need solving. So they [United Nations inspectors] should just come and take them,” Assad said.

The Syrian president went on to claim that he successfully fooled the United States and President Barack Obama.

Removing “the chemical weapons is not the goal of the United States and their allies,” and it never has been, Assad claimed. “They wanted to change the balance of power and to protect Israel.”

“We turned the tables and sent to the ball into their court,” Assad said. “This move embarrassed them in front of the American public, in Europe, and even in front of the U.S. government.”

The Syrian president also celebrated his “unprecedented collaboration with Russia,” which has helped arm Assad and took the lead on forging the deal to remove his chemical weapons.

“We have an agreement with Russia that they will intervene, in a big way, if Syria is attacked,” Assad claimed.

The West has ordered Syria to disband its program and destroy all chemical weapons by November.

U.N. inspectors are scheduled to begin inspecting the country’s chemical stockpiles net week."

http://www.worthynews.com/top/freebeacon-com-russia-china-hold-large-scale-war-games-/

[Psalm 51:17]

from 1828 Websters...

Now that isn't the end all definition. It's best to take as many verses as possible to compare to see what the intent of the word use is. Personally, I don't think scripture is saying that the city would be wiped off the map. It seems to me that is talking about a city that is brought down to not operating functionally as a city. To me, that doesn't mean the people go away and the city is leveled. People can still be living there and the city is still there, yet the official city is no longer operating administratively. It effectively is in ruins.

The world claims that Damascus is the oldest continuously populated city in the world. To me, that doesn't conflict with scripture.

Consider also all the scriptures that mention Jerusalem would be destroyed and overrun. Multiple times, and multiple times God has repented of His anger towards Jerusalem and Israel.

It seems a bit subjective as to how people define words, so this to me is another example of people arguing over "secondary" topics of bible prophecy. Certain people spend time over stuff like this when they really need to examine themselves whether they are in the faith.

Belief comes first, then the gift of the Holy Ghost, then one can start to understand prophecy.

2 Peter 1:20?

Yea and Amen.

Good insight(never thought of this).

Also - keep in mind that wars have been started over the world's history where they used the name of Christianity. Bush Jr did it when he invaded Iraq. Hitler did the same in N@zi Germany. Although I've yet to hear any Churchianity sect doing so with Syria(on the contrary, most are pushing for peace there) - but that could change if let's say, a false flag happens in this country and Syria gets the blame, Martial Law gets declared, and then it's time for Caesar to collect their chips from these 501c3 churches.

As for the subjectiveness of defining words? Good pt - like these modern-day seminaries would make their students learn Greek and Hebrew in order to help them interpret these Alexandrian texts. But nonetheless - wanted to show the NIV translation b/c whether or not this prophecy has come to pass, you can't deny the translators watered the meaning down tremendously.

[Mark]

Vladimir Putin nominated for Nobel Peace Prize

Vladimir Putin has been nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize. Despite Russia's role as the main supplier of weapons to Bashar al-Assad's regime, an advocacy group has put the president's name forward because the former KGB agent “actively promotes ...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/vladimir-putin-nominated-for-nobel-peace-prize-8853349.html

 

[Psalm 51:17]

Wow...for some reason this Syria agenda has all of a sudden died down.

[Mark]

Syrian rebel groups battle each other, killing 19

Al-Qaida militants battled fighters linked to the Western-backed opposition along with Kurdish gunmen in Syrian towns along the Turkish border on Friday, in clashes that killed at least 19 people, activists said. 

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/disarmament-experts-report-early-progress-syria-20462127

[Mark]

Kerry praises Assad for acting on Syria's chemical weapons in 'record time'

As the program to destroy Syria’s arsenal of chemical weapons begins, the embattled regime of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad is winning some rare praise from the West for its cooperation in the ambitious mission.

Secretary of State John Kerry said Monday that it was a “credit” for the Assad regime that the process of destroying the chemical weapons had begun in “record time” and with the compliance of Damascus.

“The process has begun in record time and we are appreciative for the Russian cooperation and obviously for Syrian compliance,” Mr. Kerry told reporters after talks with his Russian counterpart, Sergei Lavrov, on the sidelines of the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) summit in Indonesia. “I think it’s extremely significant that yesterday, Sunday, within a week of the [United Nations] resolution [on Syria’s chemical arsenal] being passed, some chemical weapons were being destroyed.”

rest: http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Security-Watch/2013/1007/Kerry-praises-Assad-for-acting-on-Syria-s-chemical-weapons-in-record-time

And in other news.... 

US State Department says Secretary of State John Kerry wasn't praising Syrian President Assad on destruction of chemical weapons - @NBCNews

http://www.breakingnews.com/topic/proposal-for-syria-to-handover-chemical-weapons

[Psalm 51:17]

http://news.yahoo.com/u-opens-door-iran-taking-part-syria-peace-193342737.html
U.S. opens door to Iran taking part in Syria peace conference
10/7/13

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States said on Monday it would be more open to Iran taking part in a long-delayed peace conference on Syria if Iran publicly backed a 2012 statement calling for a transitional government in Syria.

The United States accuses Iran of supporting the government of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad in a civil war that has run for more than two years, killed more than 100,000 people and eluded all efforts at a peaceful settlement.

The June 30, 2012, "Geneva Communique" sought to chart a path to a diplomatic resolution of the conflict. It was agreed by major powers such as the United States and Russia, Gulf states and Syria's neighbors Iraq and Turkey - but not Iran, which was not invited to those talks.

Russia and the United States agreed in May to try to hold a "Geneva II" conference to implement the agreement, which called for a transitional governing authority to rule Syria but left open the question of whether or not Assad must leave power.

The agreement said such a transitional government must be chosen by the Damascus government and the opposition by mutual consent, which the United States says effectively rules out Assad staying in power.

Efforts to convene the conference have been delayed - U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry originally said it might be held by the end of May - and the recent diplomatic focus has been on ridding Syria of its chemical weapons following an August 21 attack in which more than 1,000 people are thought to have died.

On Monday, State Department spokeswoman Marie Harf suggested that the United States might be better disposed to Iran's taking part in a Geneva II conference if Tehran were to embrace the original Geneva Communique.

"We've been clear, multiple times, about Iran's destructive role in the Syrian crisis and our expectation that any party that (is) included in Geneva II must accept and publicly support the Geneva communique," she said.

"If, and this is an if, Iran were to endorse and embrace the Geneva communiqué publicly, we would view the possibility of their participation more openly," Harf said, later adding the United States would then view its taking part more "favorably."

The United States and Iran have recently started something of a diplomatic rapprochement, with President Barack Obama speaking by telephone with Iranian President Hassan Rouhani on September 27, the highest level contact since 1979.

The two sides, along with Britain, China, France, Germany and Russia, are sending delegations to Geneva for separate talks on October 15-16 to try to address a dispute over Iran's nuclear program.

The United States and its allies suspect Iran is using its civilian nuclear program as a cover to develop atomic weapons. Iran denies this, saying its program is for peaceful purposes.

[Mark]

New report says Syrian rebels committed war crimes
  You mean McCain's buddies?

Jihadi-led rebel fighters in Syria killed at least 190 civilians and abducted more than 200 during an offensive against pro-regime villages, committing a war crime, an international human rights group said Friday.
 
The Aug. 4 attacks on unarmed civilians in more than a dozen villages in the coastal province of Latakia were systematic and could even amount to a crime against humanity, Human Rights Watch said in a 105-page report based. The findings are based on a visit a month later to the area, with permission from the Syrian regime.
 
The report quoted witnesses as saying rebels went house to house, killing entire families or killing the men and taking women and children hostage.
 
The villagers belong to the minority Alawite sect, an offshoot of Shiite Islam which forms the backbone of President Bashar Assad's regime — and which Sunni Muslim extremists consider heretics.
 
One survivor, Hassan Shebli, told HRW he fled as rebels approached his village of Barouda at dawn, but was forced to leave behind his wife, who was unable to walk without crutches, and his paralyzed 23-year-old son.
 
When Shebli returned days later, after government forces retook the village, he found his wife and son buried near the house and bullet holes and blood splatter in the bedroom, the New York-based group said.
 
The findings are bound to feed mounting Western unease about the tactics of some of those trying to topple Assad and about the growing role of jihadi rebels, including foreign fighters linked to al-Qaida.
 
The main Western-backed rebel alliance, the Free Syria Army, distanced itself from the five rebel groups named by the HRW as the main perpetrators.
 
"Anyone who commits such crimes will not belong to the revolution anymore," said spokesman Louay Mikdad.
 
He said the alliance is not cooperating with extremist groups, and that al-Qaida-linked rebels frequently attack FSA fighters.
 
A rebel in the Latakia area, who goes by the name of Mohammed Haffawi, denied civilians were killed during the offensive. Reached by Skype, he said one of the rebel groups is holding about 100 women and children as bargaining chips for the release of prisoners held by the regime.
 
U.N. war crimes investigators have accused both sides in Syria's civil war, now in its third year, of wrongdoing, though they said earlier this year that the scale and intensity of rebel abuses hasn't reached that of the regime.
 
The new allegations of rebel abuses come at a time when the regime is regaining some international legitimacy because of its apparent cooperation with an internationally mandated program to destroy Syria's chemical weapons stockpile by mid-2014.
 
Lama Fakih of Human Rights Watch said the rebel abuses in Latakia "certainly amount to war crimes," and may even rise to the level of crimes against humanity.
 
The group said more than 20 rebel groups participated in the Latakia offensive.
 
Five groups, including two linked to al-Qaida and others with jihadi leanings, led the campaign, which appeared to have been funded in part by private donations raised in the Persian Gulf, the report said.
 
Human Rights Watch appealed to the Gulf states to crack down on such money transfers. It also urged Turkey, a rear base for many rebel groups, to prosecute those linked to war crimes and restrict the flow of weapons and fighters.
 
The Western-backed Syrian opposition must cut ties with the groups that led the Latakia offensive, the report said.
 
Most of the alleged attacks on civilians occurred on Aug. 4, said the group. The campaign began with rebel fighters seizing three regime posts and then the villages. After the regime positions fell, no pro-government troops were left in the Alawite villages. It took government forces two weeks to recapture all the villages.
 
Human Rights Watch said at least 67 of the 190 civilians slain by the rebels were killed at close range or while trying to flee. There are signs that most of the others were also killed intentionally or indiscriminately, but more investigation is needed, the group said.
 
The rebels seized more than 200 civilians from the Alawite villages, most of them women and children, and demanded to trade the hostages for prisoners held by the regime.
 
The HRW report said the rebel groups that led the offensive included Jabhat al-Nusra and the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant, both linked to al-Qaida; Ahrar al-Sham; Jaish al-Muhajireen wal-Ansar; and Suqqor al-Izz.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/new-report-says-syrian-rebels-committed-war-crimes

[Psalm 51:17]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/syria-peace-talks-plans-jeopardy-150845212.html
10/22/13
Syria peace talks plans in jeopardy after opposition, Saudi moves

* Syrian opposition to shun peace talks unless Assad exit is goal

* Confident Assad talks of running for re-election next year

* Saudi Arabia plans to halt cooperation with United States on Syria - source

By Arshad Mohammed and Peter Griffiths

LONDON, Oct 22 (Reuters) - Plans for talks to end the fighting in Syria were in jeopardy on Tuesday after the opposition refused to attend unless President Bashar al-Assad is forced from power and a furious Saudi Arabia made clear it would no longer co-operate with the United States over the civil war.

Western nations and their Middle Eastern allies pressed Syria's fractured opposition to join the proposed peace talks, although Assad has indicated he will not bow to opposition demands that he should step down as a pre-condition.

The United States and Russia said in May they would convene a "Geneva 2" conference to try to end a conflict that has killed well over 100,000 people and forced millions from their homes, but it faces huge obstacles and no firm date has been set.

British Foreign Secretary William Hague, hosting a meeting of 11 nations in London, said it was vital that the Western-backed Syrian opposition join the talks.

"We urge the National Coalition to commit itself fully and to lead and form the heart of any opposition delegation to Geneva," he told a news conference.

However, opposition factions are loathe to discuss anything except the immediate departure of Assad - who said on Monday he saw no reason why he should not run for re-election next year.

"The Sultan must leave," said Syrian opposition chief Ahmed Jarba in the text of a speech to the meeting, referring to Assad. "Geneva cannot succeed and we cannot take part if it allows Assad to gain more time to spill the blood of our people while the world looks on."


OPPOSITION RIFTS

Many of the mostly Islamist rebels fighting in Syria refuse to recognise the exiled opposition favoured by the West.

Efforts to present a united front suffered a further setback when it emerged that Saudi Arabia's intelligence chief had said the kingdom would make a "major shift" in relations with the United States in protest at its perceived inaction over Syria and its overtures to Iran.

Prince Bandar bin Sultan has told European diplomats that Washington had failed to act on Syria among other Middle Eastern issues, according to a source close to Saudi policy. "The shift away from the U.S. is a major one," the source said.

There would be no further coordination with the United States over the war in Syria, where the Saudis have armed and financed rebel groups fighting Assad, the source said.

Saudi anger boiled over after Washington refrained from military strikes in response to a poison gas attack in Damascus in August when Assad agreed to give up his chemical arsenal.

Saudi Arabia is also concerned about signs of a tentative reconciliation between Washington and Tehran, the Saudis' old enemy, which may be invited to Geneva.

U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry said the Saudis were "obviously disappointed" that the strike on Syria did not take place.

He said President Barack Obama had asked to him to hold talk to Saudi officials, which he described as "very, very constructive and I am convinced we are on the same page as we are proceeding forward."

Saudi Arabia and the United States shared deep concern about Iran's nuclear programme, Kerry said, adding: "I reaffirmed President Obama's commitment that he will not allow Iran to have a nuclear weapon."

Kerry met Saudi Foreign Minister Saud al-Faisal in Paris on Monday regarding Iran.

"I reiterated our position - in any negotiation (with Iran) --that our eyes are wide open, actions are what will speak to us, not words, and no deal is better than a bad deal," Kerry said.


NO MILITARY SOLUTION

Hague said there was no military solution to the war and urged Syrians to "make the compromises necessary for a peace process to work".

Several officials, including Arab League chief Nabil Elaraby, have said they expect the Geneva 2 conference to convene on Nov. 23, though the United States, Russia and the United Nations have all said no date has been officially set.

In London, Britain, Egypt, France, Germany, Italy, Jordan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, the United Arab Emirates and the United States were to discuss the agenda for the peace talks and to help the opposition prepare for them, a U.S. official said.

While Washington has said it is open to the possibility of Iran, which has supported Assad, coming to a Geneva conference, Kerry said it was hard to see Tehran playing a constructive role unless it backs the idea of a transitional government.

Hague said Iran must support a proposed interim government in Syria including figures from Assad's administration and the opposition as the way to political dialogue and free elections.

"If Iran could start from that position as well as the rest of us, then Iran would be more easily included in international discussions on the subject," he said.

However, the West and its Arab allies are divided on Iranian involvement. Saudi Arabia, which backs Syria's mostly Sunni Muslim rebels, vehemently opposes any inclusion of Shi'ite Iran, its regional arch-rival.

[Mark]

This is big news!!!!

Saudi Arabia severs diplomatic ties with US over response to conflict in Syria

    Saudi Arabia is an important ally to the U.S. as it provides a secure source of oil
    Saudi diplomats now promise a 'major shift' in relations with the U.S. over inaction in the conflict in Syria
    Secretary of State John Kerry says he is committed to keeping a good relationship with the Saudis


Upset at President Barack Obama's policies on Iran and Syria, members of Saudi Arabia's ruling family are threatening a rift with the United States that could take the alliance between Washington and the kingdom to its lowest point in years.

Saudi Arabia's intelligence chief is vowing that the kingdom will make a 'major shift' in relations with the United States to protest perceived American inaction over Syria's civil war as well as recent U.S. overtures to Iran, a source close to Saudi policy said on Tuesday.

Prince Bandar bin Sultan told European diplomats that the United States had failed to act effectively against Syrian President Bashar al-Assad and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, was growing closer to Tehran, and had failed to back Saudi support for Bahrain when it crushed an anti-government revolt in 2011, the source said.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2472680/Saudi-Arabia-severs-diplomatic-ties-US-response-conflict-Syria.html#ixzz2iYT26LzO

[Psalm 51:17]

It wasn't too long ago when people like the Bushes had close ties to the Saudis.

Yes, big news indeed!

[Kilika]

Hmm, I wonder just how much the Sunni/Shia thing plays into this. Saudi Arabia rulers are Sunni (Wahhabism), so I wonder if Obama has been siding with Shiites. I haven't been paying close enough attention to tell who is which in Syria. This seems to be a clear Islamic stance by Saudi Arabia, and that could be a big problem.

[Kilika]

Assad of Syria is "Alawite", a Shia offshoot.  Alawite Shia is the second largest group behind 70% Sunni.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Syria

Now we can see where the real conflict is!

[Psalm 51:17]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/10/23/political-science-says-syrias-civil-war-will-probably-last-at-least-another-decade/
10/23/13
Political science says Syria’s civil war will probably last at least another decade

The Obama administration appears to be deadlocked over what to do in Syria, forcing a policy of inaction, according to a widely circulating New York Times story. But U.S. officials will likely have years more time to debate what to do about Syria's civil war, which could continue into and perhaps through the next presidential administration. According to a review of the political science on the duration of civil wars, Syria's conflict will most likely last through 2020 and perhaps well beyond.

Syria's conflict began with April 2011 protests and subsequent crackdowns. It's not clear the precise moment when it became a civil war, but many media organizations began referring to it as such around early or mid 2012. At most, you might say the war has been waging now for two years. According to studies of intra-state conflicts since 1945, civil wars tend to last an average of about seven to 12 years. That would put the end of the war somewhere between 2018 and 2023.

Worse, those studies have identified several factors that tend to make civil wars last even longer than the average. A number of those factors appear to apply to Syria, suggesting that this war could be an unusually long one. Of course, those are just estimates based on averages; by definition, half of all civil wars are shorter than the median length, and Syria's could be one of them. But, based on the political science, Syria has the right conditions to last through President Obama's tenure and perhaps most or all of his successor's.

Here's what the research shows:

(1) The average civil war was 10 years as of 2002: A 2002 study by James Fearon of Stanford University found the average length of ongoing civil wars to be about 10 years.

(2) That number has probably since increased: The length of civil wars has been increasing steadily since 1945. It hit an all-time high of 15.1 years in 1999, then dropped, perhaps owing to the resolution of conflicts sparked by the end of the Cold War. But it's been ticking back up; the trend suggests that Fearon's 2002 estimate of 10 years would have increased significantly since then. Here's a chart of his data on civil war length:



(3) Civil wars are longer and bloodier than average when foreign powers intervene: A 2008 study by Fearon and David Laitin reaffirmed previous research stating that civil wars tend to be significantly longer when foreign countries intervene decisively on one side. (To be clear, "intervene" here means more than just training a few rebels, as the United States is doing, but to support one faction in outright defeating its enemy.) A 2012 paper reached a similar conclusion, also finding that foreign interventions tends to make all sides more violent and to increase the death toll. Iran is very actively involved in directly aiding Syrian President Bashar al-Assad's forces, as is the Lebanese militant group Hezbollah. Saudi Arabia and other Arab Gulf states are helping to fund and arm rebel groups; foreign jihadist groups are also involved in the fighting, particularly from Iraq.

(4) Civil wars with lots of factions last longer than average. Barbara F. Walter of the University of California at San Diego points to a 2006 paper in the Journal of Political Science arguing that civil wars last longer when there are more competing factions. The number of rebel groups tends to change on a pretty regular basis, but Walter says there are 13. Whatever your count, there are a lot of them, their alliances and allegiances tend to change a lot and, most worrying, they're already fighting one another.

(5) Civil wars are longer than average when no side can disarm the other. It's not just about seizing and holding territory: it's about taking away your opponent's ability to fight you. "Civil wars tend to last a long time when neither side can disarm the other, causing a military stalemate," Fearon concluded in his 2002 study. The Assad regime is actively armed by a foreign power, Iran, which suggests it would be really difficult for the rebels to disarm them. And it's hard to see how Assad could ever disarm the rebels, who come both from within the Syrian population and from across the border in Iraq, given both the popular outrage against his regime and the ease of acquiring weapons.

(6) Civil wars are longer than average when they don't end by negotiated settlement. When Fearon and others calculated the average length of civil wars, the lower end of their data was filled with countries that achieved peace through a negotiated settlement, also known as a peace deal. Walter says the odds of this happening are "probably close to zero." She explains that the research finds you need two things for a negotiated settlement: a third party willing to commit resources such as peacekeepers and an "divide political power amongst the combatants based on their position on the battlefield." Syria has neither. She adds that only one in four civil wars ends in negotiated settlement; most end in outright victory, which is made less likely by foreign intervention, as the foreign powers can keep supplying arms and money long after the stalemate would have otherwise exhausted both sides.

You don't need all this research to see that, two years into Syria's civil war, there's no sign that the conflict is headed anywhere toward resolution. Syrian territory is split between regime forces, Arab rebels and Kurdish groups, all of whom appear deadlocked. Rebel factions are dividing and fighting among one another. Food insecurity is becoming a greater problem, as is access to medical care. Other Middle Eastern states are getting more involved, turning Syria into a proxy war between Iran and Arab Gulf states. And while Syria did agree to give up its chemical weapons, Russia is otherwise shielding the regime from much international action.

That the research above seems to point to at least another 10 years is hardly surprising, particularly when we look at similar conflicts. Neighboring Lebanon had a civil war, also with sectarian divisions and foreign interventions, that lasted either 15 or 30 years, depending on how you count it. An even greater risk might be Syria's conflict following a model like Afghanistan's, which had its 1980s war followed by another civil war, in the 1990s, between the victorious rebel groups; Syria's rebels are already fighting one another, leading to fears that a rebel victory would spark a second war.

Ten years, or 15 or however long it might be, is a very long time. It's not just that President Obama is likely to leave office with the war unsolved. His successor could serve most or all of two full terms while the killing continues. The next president could be winding down his or her second term, in 2023, with the war still raging, still unsolved. It's already killed over 100,000 Syrians and displaced over 1 million. There's no telling what it would cost after a full decade.

[Kilika]

The Obama administration appears to be deadlocked over what to do in Syria

How about minding our own business and stop meddling, not spending money we don't have, and do nothing? 

[Mark]

Reports: Syrian air base destroyed in missile attack from sea

Unclear who is behind the attack on base located in stronghold of Assad's Alawites, but Syrian, Lebanese media accuse Israel; Channel 2 reports attack's target were S-125 surface-to-air missiles.

A Syrian air defense base near the port city of Latakia was completely destroyed on Thursday morning in a missile attack from the sea, Arab media reported.

According to reports emanating from the rebels seeking to oust Syrian President Bashar Assad, a large explosion occurred near the army base in Latakia on Wednesday night. Witness posted on Twitter that the explosion happened near coastal city Jableh, 30 kilometers south of Latakia, a stronghold of Assad's Alawites.

It is unclear who is behind the explosion or its purpose. There were no reports of casualties.

Members of the Syrian and Lebanese media have charged that Israel is behind the attack. Israel's defense establishment has not responded to the report.

Channel 2 News reported that the attack's target was a S-125 surface-to-air missiles battery.

Satellite images of the area obtained by Channel 2 show the Russian-made Neva missiles, as well as a SA-3 missile battery, that also includes a command center with a radar to track the missiles' targets and broadcasting anthenas to track the missiles as they are launched. The missiles have a range of 35km. and a 70k. warhead.

Lebanese media also reported that six Israel Air Force planes flew over Ayta ash Shab, Bint Jbeil and Marjayoun in southern Lebanon overnight. Such reports are common in the Lebanese media.

Last week, Kuwait newspaper Al-Jarida reported that IAF warplanes destroyed a shipment of missiles that were to be delivered to Hezbollah near the Lebanese-Syrian frontier.

The paper’s story, which quotes a senior Israeli official, has not been confirmed by any other news source. It was also unclear whether the attack took place on Lebanese or Syrian soil.

Israel has reportedly launched at least three attacks against convoys that were said to be delivering arms to the south Lebanon-based Shi’ite organization.

http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Reports-Syrian-air-base-destroyed-in-missile-attack-from-sea-330232

[Mark]

Prince Charles Blames Syria Civil War on…Global Warming

The heir to the British throne is blaming the Syrian civil war that’s claimed more than 100,000 lives on global warming.
 
In remarks to the World Islamic Economic Forum meeting in London this week, Prince Charles described the bloody Syria conflict as a “terrifyingly graphic” example of the negative effects of climate change.

He referred to the Koran and the Bible in pushing for better treatment of the environment and suggested that Islamic banking could be a key to more responsible investment.
 
“The tragic conflict in Syria provides a terrifyingly graphic example, where a severe drought for the last seven years has decimated Syria’s rural economy, driving many farmers off their fields and into cities where, where already, food was in short supply,” Charles said. “This depletion of natural capital, inexplicably little reported in the media, was a significant contributor to the social tension that exploded with such desperate results.”
 
“It is clear from the Koran, and indeed the Bible too, that humanity has a sacred responsibility for the stewardship of the Earth,” he said,according to the Huffington Post.
 
“The time then has surely come for our financial institutions to recognize that the Earth is not a limitless resource that can be plundered at will, and to integrate that principle of stewardship into our financial structures,” he said. He proposed that because of Islamic banking’s requirement of a “moral economy,” that kind of system could offer answers.
 
Prime Minister David Cameron told the same forum on Tuesday that the British government would begin selling Shariah-compliant Islamic bonds – or sukuk – in order to lure investment from the Muslim world.
 
An excerpt of Prince Charles’s remarks can be seen here:



http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/10/31/prince-charles-blames-syria-civil-war-on-global-warming/

[Mark]

Syria chemical weapons equipment destroyed, says OPCW

Syria's declared equipment for producing, mixing and filling chemical weapons has been destroyed, the international watchdog says.

This comes a day before the deadline set by the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW).

The weapons have been placed under seal, an OPCW spokesman said.

Inspectors were sent to Syria following allegations, denied by the government, that its forces had used chemical weapons in civilian areas.

rest: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-24754460

[Psalm 51:17]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-24754460
10/31/13
Syria chemical weapons equipment destroyed, says OPCW

Syria's declared equipment for producing, mixing and filling chemical weapons has been destroyed, the international watchdog says.

This comes a day before the deadline set by the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW).

The weapons have been placed under seal, an OPCW spokesman said.

Inspectors were sent to Syria following allegations, denied by the government, that its forces had used chemical weapons in civilian areas.

The inspections were agreed between Russia and the US after Washington threatened to use force in Syria.

Syria's Deputy Foreign Minister Faisal Mekdad told the BBC's Lyse Doucet that it had not been difficult for Syria's government to meet its obligations, as some had initially feared.

"I hope those who have always thought of us negatively will change their minds and understand that Syria was, is, and will be always a constructive partner," Mr Mekdad told our correspondent.

Now that the equipment has been put beyond use, Syria has until mid-2014 to destroy the chemical weapons themselves.

Its arsenal is believed to include more than 1,000 tonnes of the nerve gas sarin, the blister agent sulphur mustard and other banned chemicals, stored at dozens of sites.

In a separate development, a large explosion at a Syrian army base has been reported outside the coastal city of Latakia.

Local media say the base was targeted by Israeli forces but this has not been confirmed.

Israel is believed to have targeted the same base in July and is concerned that some weapons in Syria are being moved to Hezbollah militants in neighbouring Lebanon.

more

[Kilika]

Israel Jets Strike Syria...

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/israel-suspected-destroying-syrian-air-144608834.html

CONFIRMED: Israel Launched Strikes On Syrian Missile Sites, Damascus

Business Insider
By Michael Kelley and Geoffrey Ingersoll | Business Insider – 1 hour 32 minutes ago

 i24tvnews via Channel 2

The targeted anti-aircraft missile site near Latakia

U.S. officials have confirmed that Israel struck Syrian missile sites in two different locations Wednesday, reports CNN.

The sites, one in the port city of Latakia and another in Damascus, allegedly contained surface to air missile systems said to be slated for delivery to Hezbollah in Lebanon.

The strikes took out SA-8 anti-aircraft missiles, The Times of Israel reports. The SA-8 system is a truck-mounted, and highly mobile, but with low-altitude and short range capabilities.

The Times of Israel and The Jerusalem Post, citing satellite images obtained by Channel 2, reports that Russian-made Neva S-125 surface-to-air anti-aircraft missiles and SA-3 missile battery — which also includes a command center with radar and antennas to track the missiles and their targets — were seen in the area.

S-125 missiles have an operational range of up to 9 miles and are equipped to take out small aircraft at a low to medium altitude. They were a favorite of Egyptians in the Yom Kipper War, and of Iraqis during the first Gulf War, The Times notes.

The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights reported a loud explosion in a Syrian army base and a Syrian security official confirmed there was a strike.

The Times of Israel cited  Twitter users who said the blast occurred near Snobar Jableh, just south of Latakia.

The pro-regime Syrian news outlet Dam Press reported that the site was heavily damaged but there were no injuries.

Syrian, Lebanese, and Israeli news sources speculated that Israel carried out the strike from the Mediterranean. The subreddit r/syriancivilwar has a rundown of all of the reports.

Arutz Sheva sources  in Syria and Lebanon blamed Israel for the strike. 

The Lebanese government news agency reported that six Israeli aircraft flew through Lebanese airspace along the coast north of Beirut on Wednesday. (cont.)