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The PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE DOCTRINE is a HOAX ?

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Author Topic: The PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE DOCTRINE is a HOAX ?  (Read 7783 times)
Christian40
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« Reply #60 on: November 04, 2011, 04:10:55 am »

I see the chart and that but you have to ask who is the Tribulation for?

The Tribulation is for the Jews. The 144000 Jewish Christian Preachers preach to the world.

There will still be people that get converted after the Rapture of the Church.

They are the Tribulation Saints.

Plus there are 7 Raptures in the Bible. The first one was Enoch, the Rapture of the Church is one of them.

I dont see how the parable of the virgins and oil can relate to Jesus's second coming it is more likely a Pre-Trib Rapture.

There are things that cant be when Jesus returns to earth.

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« Reply #61 on: November 04, 2011, 05:07:19 am »

[The Pretribulation Doctrine was originated in the nineteenth century by John Nelson Darby,

Thats not true at all. Ya know i dont care if your not for a pre trib rapture, but i do take offense when straight up lies are posted about it. Any site or teaching or anyone that starts off with Darby and MacDonald is not to be trusted or even posted as all that crap is a flat out lie. And kept going by catholics.
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« Reply #62 on: November 04, 2011, 05:35:26 am »

Why is this topic still being debated, or even debated at all? Why? I would support a ban on the topic actually, or very strict moderation. Maybe give each side a say then lock it up and be done with it.

What does it accomplish? Seriously, what does it matter who is correct? Will one be saved and the one that is wrong will be lost? If a person is wrong about the "rapture", will they lose their salvation? Nope.

And that makes this discussion vain and unprofitable. So that means somebody is provoking a vain discussion, and that is usually done with the intent to derail the truth.

The "rapture" should not even be a discussion at all. The whole argument is a distraction created by evil intent.

While there is nothing wrong with a person wanting to know the truth of a matter, there is a point when curiosity becomes vain and unprofitable and not of faith and patience.

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." 1 John 3:2 (KJB)
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« Reply #63 on: November 04, 2011, 08:42:18 am »

Thats not true at all. Ya know i dont care if your not for a pre trib rapture, but i do take offense when straight up lies are posted about it. Any site or teaching or anyone that starts off with Darby and MacDonald is not to be trusted or even posted as all that crap is a flat out lie. And kept going by catholics.

Like I said, I'm post-trib, however, it pains me when I see this lie keep getting out - even the MSM like the History Channel in their Christian shows run away with this.

For the record, like I said in the previous page, Darby NEVER met Margaret MacDonald b/c he strayed away from occultists. And MacDonald did NOT have a "vision" of a pre-trib rapture. I'm shocked Dave MacPherson wrote this in his book "Rapture Hoax". McPherson also takes pride in being the first person entering into Disneyland, which also doesn't bode well in terms of him painting Christians in a bad light.

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« Reply #64 on: November 04, 2011, 05:11:42 pm »

Thats not true at all. Ya know i dont care if your not for a pre trib rapture, but i do take offense when straight up lies are posted about it. Any site or teaching or anyone that starts off with Darby and MacDonald is not to be trusted or even posted as all that crap is a flat out lie. And kept going by catholics.
Dok, some of us may not be as "researched" on this topic as you are. If they are truly lies, than I would expect you to use the opportunity to expose them as lies and help others to understand the truth. Not take offense and leave it at that. I never said I believed in a Post Tribulation rapture.


Why is this topic still being debated, or even debated at all? Why? I would support a ban on the topic actually, or very strict moderation. Maybe give each side a say then lock it up and be done with it.
Kilika, this was not intended to be a debate. I have specifically posted one side of the argument so that it can be exposed as wrong if it is. The problem is when it gets turned into a debate by those who have no control over their emotions  or too much pride in their own understanding. How do you expose  lies if you wont look at them?


And that makes this discussion vain and unprofitable. So that means somebody is provoking a vain discussion, and that is usually done with the intent to derail the truth.

I take this as being aimed at me.  Sad
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« Reply #65 on: November 04, 2011, 05:16:57 pm »

ak, when I searched "John Darby and Margaret McDonald" on yahoo a few months ago, numerous links came up exposing the heresy that Darby got his pre-trib theory from MacDonald. As it turned out, McDonald didn't have a pre-trib vision, and Darby never touched occultists with a 10 foot pole. Yes, even McDonald's LETTERS have been posted on the internet as proof.

Sorry, a bit worn out right now, maybe I will post it later - but a mere 5 minutes of research on yahoo will merely debunk this who charade that's been replayed 1000s of times.

Like I said, I'm post trib, but I certainly don't want to present lies to defend my position on the post-trib rapture.
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« Reply #66 on: November 04, 2011, 05:47:13 pm »

Not aimed you particularly, no. But the point is that is doesn't matter right or wrong, it's not an edifying topic to spend time on, that's all I'm saying. It always ends up in a contentious debate and that's not good.
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« Reply #67 on: November 04, 2011, 06:20:00 pm »

Dok, some of us may not be as "researched" on this topic as you are. If they are truly lies, than I would expect you to use the opportunity to expose them as lies and help others to understand the truth. Not take offense and leave it at that. I never said I believed in a Post Tribulation rapture.


You seem to have posted quite a bit on the Rapture, so you really cant say you haven't researched it, and all of it negative. Now i have seen that lie so many times that it just gets my dander up and i go on the offensive every time. It is something that is so easy to discredit and has its origins straight from the Pope. I could really care less if anyone  is post trib or mid trib or what ever. I just cant stand the Catholic lies that have been spread.

p.s. its pre trib as you cant go up and down at the same time.
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« Reply #68 on: November 04, 2011, 06:52:19 pm »

Hey Dok, what that Darby/MacDonald lie has done is to pretty much completely try to discret Revelation and Daniel prophecies being set in the last Act before Jesus Christ comes back. Forget the rapture, it's come to a point now where this whole charade has tried to discredit the end of times that Jesus prophecized in Matthew 24.

For example, the few I tried talking to over how Revelation is talking about a OWG antichrist/false prophet for the final 7 years, almost immediately they would bring up how "It was Darby and Scofield that theorized this". And the discussion would end right there.
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« Reply #69 on: November 04, 2011, 07:20:28 pm »

it has discredited a lot of stuff, and i think that was the Popes agenda all along. You have the catholics start this lie, that the rapture isnt true, than you get some nuts, in my opinion Jesuit infiltrators to start some rapture dates that so not come true and than here is the Popes saying see we told you so, only we know the truth. and that's what you end up with.

The Rapture of the church goes all the way back to the apostles, it was suddenly changed after 400 ad, hmmm, wonder what happened than?  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #70 on: November 04, 2011, 07:42:06 pm »

And let's not forget St. Augustine - he was the guy that made up this A-Millenial escatology nonsense(where the tribulation was the 2000 year church age). I don't know if Charles Stanley is a Jesuit infiltrator(I listened to him alot in my early days), but Stanley is a pre-trib believer, however, he endorses St. Augustine's work. Yeah, you can see the confusion - it's not just Stanley, but other Baptist/Protestant leaders that have the pre-trib belief endorse Augustine's work. Meaning that their pews and followers would read St. Aug's stuff, and get lots of confusion over doctrine et al.

St. Aug was a Roman Catholic as well.

As for John Darby, it was his Calvinist views that irked me. Ditto Scofield - he had some heretical views as well.(although Alex Jones et al tries to link Scofield to the Rothchilds, I have seen no proof of this)

Edit: Forgot to mention that I've run into a few pastors that have embraced the A-Mill view in recent years. Supposedly, it was b/c of their "studies". IMHO, as I stated above, they ended up buying into all this confusion that Christian leaders on the national stage threw at everyone.
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« Reply #71 on: November 05, 2011, 01:54:43 am »

Post Tribulation Rapture - Disproving Pre-trib in 3 Steps


Post Tribulation Rapture - Undeniable Proof Exposed Using Pre-Trib Cornerstone Scripture!!



Post Tribulation Rapture - The Belief of the Early



Post Tribulation Rapture - Marriage of the Lamb



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« Reply #72 on: November 05, 2011, 02:01:29 am »

The Pre-wrath Rapture - The Rapture Puzzle Solved with Matthew 24
By Chris White


Here are the links for further research:

http://www.prewrathrapture.com/
http://prewrathministries.org/
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« Reply #73 on: November 05, 2011, 02:15:58 am »


Rightly Dividing the Revelation - and Debunking the Pretrib Rapture Hoax

Pastor Sam Adams | Revelation Series

Play: http://www.sermonaudio.com/playpopup.asp?SID=212101513481

Download: http://mp3.sa-media.com/media/212101513481/212101513481.mp3
----------   

Apostolic Premillennialism 1: Post-trib Rapture
Pastor Sam Adams | Error of the Pre-trib Rapture
Matthew 24:1-31, 2 Thes:2:1-8

Play: http://www.sermonaudio.com/playpopup.asp?SID=1121081140

Download: http://mp3.sa-media.com/media/1121081140/1121081140.mp3
-----------

Apostolic Premillennialism 2: Post-trib Rapture
Pastor Sam Adams | Error of the Pretrib Rapture
Matthew 24:1-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8
Play:  http://www.sermonaudio.com/playpopup.asp?SID=212101454394
Download:  http://mp3.sa-media.com/media/212101454394/212101454394.mp3
-----------


Who Is Able to Make War with the Beast

Pastor Sam Adams | A Surprising Answer
Revelation 13:4

Play: http://www.sermonaudio.com/playpopup.asp?SID=122101359406

Download: http://mp3.sa-media.com/media/122101359406/122101359406.mp3

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« Reply #74 on: November 06, 2011, 08:11:04 am »

The more and more you read the Bible and cross reference the Bible and listen less and less to what people believe, you'll be post-trib. Post-trib has far too many scriptures to prove whereas pre-tribs pull one or two verses out of context and try to be smart and say "This can't be, blah blah blah" The day of the Lord is the Rapture, we are not appointed unto wrath, but we are appointed unto tribulation. Read all scripture references to the Day of Lord and Rapture together and it only strenghtens the post-trib doctruine, which by the way was what all our forefathers like George Mueller believed (he read the bible 200x) and said "If you can show me a resurrection before the first, or a trumpet after the last, i'll believe this new doctrine" And that is what it is, it is a new doctrine, for a new generation that reads less of the Bible, watches more of the TV, takes more of their pastor's word for it instead of being a good Berean, and really Satan is using pre-trib to keep the saints from being prepared for the tribulation. What confusion when all the saints expect to be raptured up and are faced with the mark of the beast?
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« Reply #75 on: November 06, 2011, 08:16:57 am »

The more and more you read the Bible and cross reference the Bible and listen less and less to what people believe, you'll be post-trib. Post-trib has far too many scriptures to prove whereas pre-tribs pull one or two verses out of context and try to be smart and say "This can't be, blah blah blah" The day of the Lord is the Rapture, we are not appointed unto wrath, but we are appointed unto tribulation. Read all scripture references to the Day of Lord and Rapture together and it only strenghtens the post-trib doctruine, which by the way was what all our forefathers like George Mueller believed (he read the bible 200x) and said "If you can show me a resurrection before the first, or a trumpet after the last, i'll believe this new doctrine" And that is what it is, it is a new doctrine, for a new generation that reads less of the Bible, watches more of the TV, takes more of their pastor's word for it instead of being a good Berean, and really Satan is using pre-trib to keep the saints from being prepared for the tribulation. What confusion when all the saints expect to be raptured up and are faced with the mark of the beast?

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« Reply #76 on: November 06, 2011, 12:42:12 pm »

The more and more you read the Bible and cross reference the Bible and listen less and less to what people believe, you'll be post-trib. Post-trib has far too many scriptures to prove whereas pre-tribs pull one or two verses out of context and try to be smart and say "This can't be, blah blah blah" The day of the Lord is the Rapture, we are not appointed unto wrath, but we are appointed unto tribulation. Read all scripture references to the Day of Lord and Rapture together and it only strenghtens the post-trib doctruine, which by the way was what all our forefathers like George Mueller believed (he read the bible 200x) and said "If you can show me a resurrection before the first, or a trumpet after the last, i'll believe this new doctrine" And that is what it is, it is a new doctrine, for a new generation that reads less of the Bible, watches more of the TV, takes more of their pastor's word for it instead of being a good Berean, and really Satan is using pre-trib to keep the saints from being prepared for the tribulation. What confusion when all the saints expect to be raptured up and are faced with the mark of the beast?

the more you read the Bible the more you are led to a pre Trib Rapture. If your post trib how can you go up to heaven when you are coming down from heaven with the Lord on a horse. new doctrine? the Popes tried to cover this up in the 400ads. Guess George Mueller wasnt to uch of a researcher was he. Seems you follow a lot of other peoples teachings and stuff to sit and tell others to read their Bibles and listen to anyone.

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« Reply #77 on: November 06, 2011, 01:10:15 pm »

we'll be caught up in a twinkling of an eye, transformed. What's the big deal of being caught up and jumping on a horse and coming back down? I can go up stairs and go back down, that is not an argument.
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« Reply #78 on: November 06, 2011, 01:54:13 pm »

we'll be caught up in a twinkling of an eye, transformed. What's the big deal of being caught up and jumping on a horse and coming back down? I can go up stairs and go back down, that is not an argument.

wow, you just showed your Biblical Knowledge that you just accused people of not having. Maybe you should read the Bible to see what exactly it says instead of relying on some ones knowledge.

The Saints are seen IN Heaven ALREADY on horses as part of the armies of Heaven before they actually come down with Jesus. So how did they get up there before Jesus leaves Heaven?

Again the pre trib rapture of the church goes all the way back to the apostles themselves. It was after 400 ad the the Popes changed the teaching. So you cant even say its new. So really whose theology are you following? The Bibles or the Popes?
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« Reply #79 on: November 06, 2011, 03:39:38 pm »

B4Real - I'm post-trib, however, the NWO minions and occults have apparently PREPARED an "explanation" when "mass disappearances" happen.

David Bayes over at cuttingedge.org snuck into a Theosophy meeting, and Bill Howard, a high level theosophist, told these plans, and said how after maitreya the world teacher emerges(don't know if this person is the antichrist or not), those that will "disappear" will be the ones that don't buy into maitreya's deception. Also, have you seen Steve Jackson's INWO card game? Apparently, there's a "rapture" card in it, which comes right after the "messiah" card.

Again, I'm post-trib, but this is what THEY'RE(the NWO minions) are saying.

As for churches by and large teaching pre-trib? Not so sure about that - by and large today's church in America is preaching feel-good/tickle-the-ear stuff(largely thanks to these Emergent thugs like Rick Warren infiltrating it), and to boot they are now growingly buying into this Preterism/church-has-replaced-Israel heresy as well.
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« Reply #80 on: November 06, 2011, 04:50:25 pm »

Here's what I don't get about the OP - if he believes in the pre-trib rapture, then why is he posting all these links debunking the pre-trib rapture? And why is complaining how this forum dislikes those who are post-trib? Yeah, what's the point? Huh
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« Reply #81 on: November 06, 2011, 05:05:48 pm »

uhm, we dont dislike those who are post trib, id say most of the members here are post trib.
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« Reply #82 on: November 06, 2011, 07:09:20 pm »

uhm, we dont dislike those who are post trib, id say most of the members here are post trib.

I'm not trying to call anyone out here, but whether you're pre or post trib, please be very humble over what you have learned from it.

I'm only speaking from experience here - when I started getting into the scriptures in the KJV, all of a sudden I switched my position from pre to post trib. However, it was at this time when I started getting very prideful in my "new found knowledge" of this. Both Dok and Kilika can attest for this over at PPF.(as evidence by my many posts there) And the next thing I know I was paying too much heed to this Ed Watson clown(long story, but this guy's true colors came out almost 2 years ago) b/c he had a staunch post-trib position.

It ultimately came to a point a year later when my own pride ended up wearing me out(there were times I would let my pride get into shouting matches with others when it came to conversations with the bible, b/c I thought I was right 100% of the time), that I ended up yoking with the A-Mill escatology delusion(long story - but Dok and Kilika can tell you the story that happened with me with this last year). So it was as if my pride lead me to one big delusion over the long haul.

Praise the Lord he lead me out of this after a good bit. Anyhow, just take it from my experiences here - please be humble whatever the Holy Spirit has revealed to you. I think this is why by and large these discussions(not all the time, but most of the time) tend to turn pretty nasty, and it's BOTH sides's fault, not just one.
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« Reply #83 on: November 06, 2011, 07:15:52 pm »

Another thing - even though I'm post-trib, if I told you that I am looking forward to going to one of those guillotenes in the tribulation, I would be lying to you. Heck, even worse, I would be deceiving my own self.

Same goes for anyone else - remember before Peter denied Jesus 3 times, he was openly adament that he would take a stand for him.
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« Reply #84 on: November 08, 2011, 06:23:31 pm »

We will go through the Tribulation, just not GODs wrath. This statement is clearly explained in the KJV Bible. There is not such thing as a rapture. There is no scriptural proof for a rapture. People who believe that believe in a 3rd coming of CHRIST. So just be ready and don't take the 666 mark because the ppl who take it where not truly saved to begin with. Thesselonians ch.2 verse 2-3 "That ye be no soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand (okay meaning Christ is coming soon) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come (Christ will not come until hold on) except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition" (the antichrist) so we will still be there on earth when the antichrist is revealed. We Christians should not be afraid of the tribulation because it is just Satans wrath, the only event we should be afraid of is the LORDs day, which we Christians do not have to go through. Matthew chapter 24 is all good, but lets start at vs 29-31 "Immediately after (notice after) the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." There is our trumpet! I think everyone should know that the devil wants us to not believe that we are going thru the tribulation so he can deceive us. I believe thats why the Bible says there will be a falling away because Satan has already deceived so many Christians of a rapture and they will not be prepared for the tribulation. 1 Thessalonians Ch 4 vs 16-17 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout , with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord" (I wanted to quote these verses b/c this is what fundamentals hold on to and its true this is HIS second coming, however its funny that in the bible it says as a reference for us to look back at matthew ch. 24 vs 30. It has the exact same meaning. HE is coming all at one time "immediately after the tribulation". Revelation ch 20 vs 4-5 "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast (like meaning us), neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection." 2 Thessalonians ch 2 vs 8 "And then shall that Wicked (antichrist) be revealed (so we will see him), whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming (so when CHRIST comes with HIS 2nd coming HE will destroy the antichrist that was during the tribulation). And that is when we will be taken up in the clouds and safe from GODs wrath, when HE destroys the antichrist.

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Kilika
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« Reply #85 on: November 09, 2011, 12:30:17 am »

Thanks for the post Christian24/7, but it would be easier to read if you posted paragraph breaks every 3-4 sentences. One massive block of text is hard to read.
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« Reply #86 on: November 09, 2011, 04:25:11 am »

But what one doesn't see here is that there are 7 Raptures or 7 Translations in the KJV Bible. The number 7 meaning perfection.

Enoch was the first one. Jesus was one of them. The Church will be one of them. I believe that when the Rapture occurs few Christians will be Raptured, but the other Christians will have to suffer because they were not yet worthy to escape all the things that are to take place on earth.

Plus if Jesus ascended into Heaven dont you think that His Bride the Church could do the same thing? (at the right moment)

Remember all things are possible with God, a pre-trib rapture is what i'm looking for. I know many anti-Christian people would like to see Christians faced with a decision to take a mark of the beast or not when there family and friends are starving to death. Yeah it will be real fun for Satan to mock Christians that way and see alot of "Christians" take the mark. Taking the mark is works salvation. You can be the best Christian in the world and then see other Christians beheaded (well you have never been in such a situation) and then chicken out and take the mark and be doomed to hell. I think God is pretty merciful and gracious He would want some Christians not to be in a situation like that.

Luke 21.
35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to ESCAPE all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
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« Reply #87 on: November 09, 2011, 04:55:01 am »

But what one doesn't see here is that there are 7 Raptures or 7 Translations in the KJV Bible. The number 7 meaning perfection.

Enoch was the first one. Jesus was one of them. The Church will be one of them. I believe that when the Rapture occurs few Christians will be Raptured, but the other Christians will have to suffer because they were not yet worthy to escape all the things that are to take place on earth.

Plus if Jesus ascended into Heaven dont you think that His Bride the Church could do the same thing? (at the right moment)

Remember all things are possible with God, a pre-trib rapture is what i'm looking for. I know many anti-Christian people would like to see Christians faced with a decision to take a mark of the beast or not when there family and friends are starving to death. Yeah it will be real fun for Satan to mock Christians that way and see alot of "Christians" take the mark. Taking the mark is works salvation. You can be the best Christian in the world and then see other Christians beheaded (well you have never been in such a situation) and then chicken out and take the mark and be doomed to hell. I think God is pretty merciful and gracious He would want some Christians not to be in a situation like that.

Luke 21.
35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to ESCAPE all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

I believe Christians face that 'choice' throughout their whole lives.  That is our purpose: to choose Christ or not.  We have had and will always have tribulation and it is not because God wants us to, it is the fire to which we are refined, building us up and glorifying Him.  When we pass through tribulation unscathed and stronger we point to Him...that is our purpose. 

And who are these 'other Christians'?  If there is a rapture then it would take ALL true Christians, if one is not taken then we cannot classify them as Christian.  This whole segregating the children of God is wrong, we are either for Him or against Him.  The tribulation is what draws the line in the sand:  do you love your life more than Christ?  Death is the threat that will be used and those who fear it will give in.  We Christians should never fear death because we know what lies on the other side.  We either full-heartedly know this or not...take the mark or not.
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« Reply #88 on: November 09, 2011, 05:58:22 am »

There is not such thing as a rapture.

Th 4:16  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18  Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


1Th 4:17  ThenG1899 weG2249 which are aliveG2198 and remainG4035 shall be caught upG726 togetherG260 withG4862 themG846 inG1722 the clouds,G3507 to meetG1519 G529 theG3588 LordG2962 inG1519 the air:G109 andG2532 soG3779 shall we everG3842 beG2071 withG4862 the Lord.G2962


G726
ἁρπάζω
harpazō
har-pad'-zo
From a derivative of G138; to seize (in various applications): - catch (away, up), pluck, pull, take (by force).

It is the word harpazo that is the basis for the word rapture. Would you prefer the great caught up? or how about the massive translation? either way its right there in 1 Thess 4.The same word is also used in 2Cor 12:2 for the exact same thing, a rapture.

2Co 12:2  I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

2Co 12:2  I knewG1492 a manG444 inG1722 ChristG5547 aboveG4253 fourteenG1180 yearsG2094 ago, (whetherG1535 inG1722 the body,G4983 I cannot tell;G1492 G3756 or whetherG1535 outG1622 of theG3588 body,G4983 I cannot tell:G1492 G3756 GodG2316 knoweth;)G1492 such an oneG5108 caught upG726 toG2193 the thirdG5154 heaven.G3772

so the KJV clearly teaches a rapture.
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Kilika
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« Reply #89 on: November 09, 2011, 12:08:28 pm »

Indeed, there will be those who are "caught up", but not all the body experiences that.

While it might be a catchy phrase, I believe that it is possible for us to be going up when we are coming down. Without a doubt all things are possible with God. That truth does not define it one way or the other, but does show it is possible, and thus we cannot discount the possibility.

Besides, to make that exact interpretation of timing of events is not possible, as evidenced by the scripture that says we won't know the day or hour. So then how can you know within less than an hour? I'm sorry, but you cannot, and thus cannot say it can't be go and come down at the same time thing. It just doesn't stand up to scripture.

Just because scripture doesn't say an exact time, you cannot say that the church could not be raptured, then within the hour we all return with Jesus. We do know those in the flesh will be chsanged in a twinkling of an eye, which I assume to be rather fast, so that to me I see as no hinderence.

Why can it not be that we change to returning with Him in an instant? One second we are here in the flesh, the next we are returning with Jesus?
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