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What is Ruining All Christian Homes is the TV itself...it needs to be thrown out

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Author Topic: What is Ruining All Christian Homes is the TV itself...it needs to be thrown out  (Read 884 times)
Christian24/7
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« on: November 08, 2011, 06:11:50 pm »

This is a Must Read Article! Written by a KJV Pastor:
Television: the Leaven of the Pharisees
“And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)” – I Peter 2:7-8

“Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.” – I John 2:15

“In the mean time, when there were gathered together an innumerable multitude of people, insomuch that they trode one upon another, he began to say unto his disciples first of all, Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.” – Luke 12:1

“All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.” –Matthew 23:3

In the Bible, Jesus is constantly rebuking a religious group of people called the Pharisees. According to Jesus, the big problem with the Pharisees was their hypocrisy. They were very strict in their preaching and standards for others, but they themselves did not live by the standards they were preaching. As independent Baptists, we must avoid falling into the same trap.

Probably the most blatant form of hypocrisy among Baptists in our day is the television found in their living room or bedroom. The television brings into their house images and sounds of everything ungodly and wicked that they are supposedly against. In their own houses they are delighting in the entertainment of this world which is diametrically opposed to the things of God. In the following paragraphs are several examples illustrating why no Christian should watch any kind of TV, Satellite, or Cable programming.

1. Worldly music
Most independent Baptists would agree that rock, rap, and other forms of worldly music are unacceptable for Christians. However, we could enter the home of the typical Baptist pastor and hear the cacophony of the most **** rock music imaginable. “What in the world is the pastor listening to?!?!” But then we realize, “Ohhh, whew, it’s just the television. I was worried there for a minute!”

This is a prime example of the leaven of the Pharisees – hypocrisy. If it is unacceptable to listen to rock music on your stereo, then why would it be allowable to listen to the same rock music through the speakers of your television? The fact alone that worldly music is wrong for the child of God excludes about 95% of television programs and commercials.

2. Improper clothing
Most of the preaching related to clothing and television is in reference to nudity. But the Bible states in Psalm 101:3, “I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes:” Immodest clothing is in violation of God’s Word and is therefore wicked, including short skirts, tights tops, low-cut blouses, exposed cleavage, and other clothing that stirs the passions of any normal man who looks at it. Not only is it wrong for us to set nudity before our eyes, but it is also wrong to purposely set a promiscuously clothed woman in front of our eyes. Those who produce television programming know that sinful men enjoy feasting their eyes on beautiful women who are dressed inappropriately. This is why seemingly every woman on television, including newscasters, women cooking on the food network, and women on game shows, all seem to be dressed provocatively.

As independent Baptists we believe in gender specific clothing, that is, pants on men, and skirts and dresses on women. In that case, why would we watch television programming filled with women in masculine or unisex clothing? Would we watch television programs that include men in dresses if Jesus Christ were sitting beside us? Wouldn’t we wonder what kind of an impact such images would have on our small children? It is no less detrimental when our daughters see all the cool girls on television poured into their tight blue jeans.

3. Sinful heroes
Many Christians do not watch TV, cable, or satellite programming but restrict themselves to Disney videos, cartoons, and the like. However, one of the major problems with these seemingly harmless videos is that most of the actors and voices in these movies are the same as those in other far more wicked movies. Therefore, from the youngest age our children are being programmed to enjoy the voices of Eddie Murphy, Robin Williams, Whoopi Goldberg, Tom Hanks, and other Hollywood reprobates.

Other Christians only use the television to watch sports, but are the typical athletic superstars of our day the role models we want for our children? Aside from the numerous beer commercials and advertising banners flashed across the screen during a professional sports game on television, not to mention the scantily clad cheerleaders at half-time, they are also being taught to idolize ****mongers like Coby Bryant and Michael Jordan, freaks like Dennis Rodman and Magic Johnson, and drug-users like Jose Canseco and Mark McGuire.

4. Alternative lifestyles

From the beginning, the producers of television have had an agenda. Even in the most “harmless” of shows, alternative lifestyles are being promoted. Consider, for example, “The Andy Griffith Show.” The show centers around a single parent who lives with his aunt. Admittedly, his wife supposedly died, and he is not divorced. However, we are still being desensitized to the idea of a single parent which is neither the norm nor God’s plan. The show also features a character, Gomer Pile, who is played by a man who is a homosexual in real life.

Consider the show “The Odd Couple” from the 1960’s. Aside from sinful content, we are being exposed to an alternative lifestyle of two men living together as roommates. Genesis 2:24 tells us God’s normal plan, “Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.” Although neither man in the show is a homosexual, this show was obviously a forerunner of the sitcoms of today which feature homosexual characters.

Consider “The Brady Bunch.” The show is about a widowed man and a widowed woman who have three children each. Now they are married and have six children collectively. This is an extremely rare scenario but mirrors the very common scenario of divorce and remarriage. We are subliminally being exposed to the idea of stepparents and stepchildren which is far more common in divorced situations than in the rare circumstance of young widows.

If you can see what is wrong with the above examples from forty years ago, you probably do not need me to go into what is wrong with the themes found in today’s television programming.

Conclusion
If we as independent Baptists want to be consistent with what we preach, there is really no way we can watch television. If we preach against rock music, immodest clothing, homosexuality, divorce, fornication, wrong role models, etc, but then we watch these very things on television, we will find ourselves being condemned by Jesus with the Pharisees of old as hypocrites.

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« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2011, 06:23:54 pm »

And let's not forget about all those Hollywood actors and professional sports stars who profess to be Christians. There are PLENTY of them - this is even worse b/c then it gets buzzed about in Churchianity circles over how "such and such celebrity is a Christian", and next thing they know they're embracing their cultures. And FWIW too, I've even heard from modern day Churchianity circles over how The View's ELIZABETH HASSELBECK is a representative for Christians on tv. They're KIDDING me, right?? Does anyone notice her provocative dressing to begin with??

With that being said, the only tv I pretty much watch is football, and the baseball/basketball playoffs - when I was watching the Baltimore/Pittsburgh game the other night, something disturbed me at the end, when Baltimore's Ray Lewis said how it was "God's blessing and God's will" for them to score the winning touchdown at the end, and how he prayed to God for that to happen. WRONG Ray! It's God's will for everyone in the world to believeth in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and get saved!

BTW, Welcome the board, Christian24/7!

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« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2011, 06:33:29 pm »

Thanks Smiley
Yes your right, its getting worse and worse. Sheesh now even homosexuals state that they are Christians. It is the devils best tool to deceive Christians that living a worldly life is okay. That is why its very important for us Christians to live a seperated life so that we will represent the "true" Christ. We don't want to be stumblingblocks where people look at us and say "Hey I can be a Christian and be like the world too!"). But see the reason why Christians have become so worldly is because of the influences on TV. When you see a Christian girl in a church with dyed hair, lots of makeup, and she has an attitude, etc. It makes me wonder where is she getting that from? TV.... Yea I really think its a brainwasher. I believe the TV creates worldliness because everyone that walks down the streets wants a life like the movies. Movies/TV promote being cool, strong, sexy, sport cars, etc. It never promotes being a true Christian.
Btw Sports to me just glorify the flesh. And the roots of sports are not good. Watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9LIWG4gBX4&feature=player_embedded I dont agree with competitions just fun play like going fishing etc.
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« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2011, 02:34:54 pm »

Alot of these products they put out from Hollywood can seem to look harmless, but they are VERY subtle at the same time. Here are a couple of examples.

1) There's this 70's tv show I watched alot when it came to syndication, "What's Happening?", which was about 3 young black boys who grew up in poor homes and bonded together. The main character of the 3 was raised by a single parent b/c his father ran off with another woman. No, it wasn't like the show glorified his father in a positive light(it was the contrary), BUT, overall, the entire show painted a picture over how we need to ACCEPT single parented homes, how "it's not as bad as it seems", etc, etc. And from there, tons of subliminal messages got into one's head(it was also a sitcom, so pretty much all the laughs one got ended up draining out all the negative messages coming out of the show).

Ultimately, the more people start coming to accept that one-parent homes are OK, the more POTENTIALLY people will accept fornication out of marriage...a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. It's shows like these that can really plant the rotten seeds. So pretty much, you're left with a society that scoffs at the old, traditional family homes that the bible preaches we should have.

2) There were short films my church in the 80's would show to the youth - one was on suicide, and another was on rebellious teens. For one, neither film pointed to the Lord Jesus Christ as the only way. And 2, even though they were anti-suicide/anti-rebellious teens themed films, to be frank, they were no different from your typical Hollywood films that would give off subtle subliminal messages. When I saw the one on rebellious teens, you came away with the reaction over how "Today's mothers are very bad and rotten". I mean a typical film just like a Hollywood product where they would paint mothers and fathers in a very rotten light, even though they try not to portray them as antagonists.

Also, even though you may not realize it, Hollywood films and tv shows will put out alot of anti-Christian messages. Even though you may not be paying attention to them, you'll be surprised by how much they can creep into your head unawares. For example, when I saw "Patch Adams" way back in the late 90's, there was a scene with Robin Williams making a blasphemous prayer toward God. At the time, I didn't pay attention to that scene, much less remembered it. However, when I saw that scene in "Hollywood's War on God"(I think that's the title of it) on youtube recently, I was surprised that it was like 5 years ago when I was uttering THOSE SAME WORDS Williams uttered in that movie when I was trying to rail against God. No Joke!
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« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2011, 05:07:57 pm »

Quote
“And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)” – I Peter 2:7-8

“Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.” – I John 2:15

“In the mean time, when there were gathered together an innumerable multitude of people, insomuch that they trode one upon another, he began to say unto his disciples first of all, Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.” – Luke 12:1

“All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.” –Matthew 23:3

In the Bible, Jesus is constantly rebuking a religious group of people called the Pharisees. According to Jesus, the big problem with the Pharisees was their hypocrisy. They were very strict in their preaching and standards for others, but they themselves did not live by the standards they were preaching. As independent Baptists, we must avoid falling into the same trap.

Probably the most blatant form of hypocrisy among Baptists in our day is the television found in their living room or bedroom. The television brings into their house images and sounds of everything ungodly and wicked that they are supposedly against. In their own houses they are delighting in the entertainment of this world which is diametrically opposed to the things of God. In the following paragraphs are several examples illustrating why no Christian should watch any kind of TV, Satellite, or Cable programming.

Yes, welcome, and thank you for posting.

While I basically agree with most of the post, I do have issue with a couple things. One is this is obviously a communication to fellow independent baptists, a "church" memo if you will. The problem I have is that it is just another branch of churchianity burdening their congregations with more incorrect interpretations. The different parts of the body of Christ is the individual believers, it's not groups of people, or a "denomination", that believe different than other groups. That is the very "divisions among you" that is mentioned in scripture.

The other issue is with what they are deeming the problem. TV is not the problem, nor is radio, it's what the viewer and listener believe is the problem, because belief is the only way to salvation.

Believers have liberty. But we are to keep our liberty to ourselves so as to not offend, or trip up potential brethren if we don't know how to share the truth about it in scripture. If we cannot explain scripturally how it is a liberty, then we definately should avoid it. Our flesh may crave things for a time, but we'll get over it. God forgives us when we look to Him and acknowledge what we did wasn't edifying or expedient. But those fleshly cravings don't go away till the flesh is changed, as "this corruptable must put on incorruption". Thank you Jesus.

Why did Jesus say an idol is nothing? How then is a movie something? I don't see any difference, both are nothing and unprofitable. They aren't edifying or expedient for the church. And it can be a stumbling block for the younger brethren, this it is better to avoid it. But all should under stand the doctrine of this type subject. It's not about the physical world, what we see, it's spiritual. We should be focusing on spiritual, which is I believe the more edifying thing to do than watch tv and play video games. We are to examine whether we are using or abusing the use of this world.

If there is any "more bad" to television, is that it is one way, unlike online as such a place as this, where you can communicate the gospel to others. With the tv, you can't do that. You can't offer up a counter-argument. It's one-sided for sure. One could say nothing more than commercials for life in the world. It is in effect a digital version of the offer made to Jesus in the wilderness, an offer of all the world. All the while the con is that he can't offer what he doesn't own, as all the world belongs to God, so really, by their own laws, they are guilty of false advertising. Big surprise! That's the hypocrisy.
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« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2011, 08:54:00 pm »

tv is a spiritual problem. Like idols, they are nothing in and of themselves physically, but they are spiritual. It goes beyond whether it is expedient or edifying. Now you are giving it a nuetral position. No, talking for an hour about nothing to someone may be nuetral, in which you must judge, was that edifying? Maybe I should shut up next time, but tv is not a matter of "well it is not edifying...." Duh, because it is satanic and you can't be a true diligent scripture searcher and in the end say, "well tv isn't a spiritual issue"
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« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2011, 02:18:42 am »

i only recently got rid of my cable. i don't miss it as much as when i was not seeking God's truth. then again i still have the internet but i am not bombarded with the worldly advertising. i have more control with a computer but the temptation is still there. i slip so easily to look at celebrity news bc it flashes on my homepage.
oh and welcome!
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« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2011, 03:14:56 am »

Quote
Conclusion
If we as independent Baptists want to be consistent with what we preach, there is really no way we can watch television. If we preach against rock music, immodest clothing, homosexuality, divorce, fornication, wrong role models, etc, but then we watch these very things on television, we will find ourselves being condemned by Jesus with the Pharisees of old as hypocrites.

Well if you know tv is a sin for you dont watch it again. I have been convicted not to watch it, except on youtube i might see some news report that is relevant it is ok to watch that in my conviction.

The thing about the television is it portrays things that aren't reality for the ordinary person, it is a kind of magic that is presented and those presenting it know how to give subliminal messages, suggestions and flashing lights to get your attention and it soon becomes an addiction. How could Satan not be involved? If you tell people you dont watch tv then people say huh? why not? then you can witness to them about the Lord Jesus and how He has convicted you to live a Christian life and how great it is to be free. It would be a case of showing to God that you are not conformed to the world.
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« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2011, 04:19:00 am »

I hear what your saying, however, technically, we all are already guilty of conforming to this world. Remember that we are already guilty of violating the whole law, thus we cannot do anything of ourselves to make it better. Of course we don't sin that grace may abound. It is inevitable that we will sin while in the flesh because of the flesh, but thanks be to God, we are already forgiven of those sins. As it says, where there is no law, there is no sin. And we are not under the law.

20   Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, 
21   (Touch not; taste not; handle not; 
22   Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men? 
23   Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh. 
Colossians 2:20-23 (KJB)
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« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2011, 09:14:56 am »

So shouldn't you folks get rid of your internet? There is WAY more access to horrible, sinful stuff on the internet than on tv! Some folks are just bound to be pharisees and legalize themselves to death! WORSE, they legalize their brothers and sisters in Christ to death! If you put ANYTHING before God it is an idol...this includes worrying about what others are doing in their walk with the Lord! If God doesn't want you to watch tv, I promise He will convict you through the Holy Spirit. Man, all this time spent legalizing others to death instead of telling the lost how GREAT our God is! Could you imagine the changes we could make in this world (including myself) if we stopped trying to be everyone's Holy Spirit?
I'm not trying to call anyone out in particular, God just put this on my heart and i felt I should share.
Keep the main thing (Jesus) the main thing!
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« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2011, 10:49:38 am »

So shouldn't you folks get rid of your internet? There is WAY more access to horrible, sinful stuff on the internet than on tv! Some folks are just bound to be pharisees and legalize themselves to death! WORSE, they legalize their brothers and sisters in Christ to death! If you put ANYTHING before God it is an idol...this includes worrying about what others are doing in their walk with the Lord! If God doesn't want you to watch tv, I promise He will convict you through the Holy Spirit. Man, all this time spent legalizing others to death instead of telling the lost how GREAT our God is! Could you imagine the changes we could make in this world (including myself) if we stopped trying to be everyone's Holy Spirit?
I'm not trying to call anyone out in particular, God just put this on my heart and i felt I should share.
Keep the main thing (Jesus) the main thing!

I tend to agree there. One man's weakness may be another's strength.
I have cable and all, but I hardly watch it, I'm about to turn it off just due to that fact.

A few words coming from that old TV were instrumental in my salvation. Just the right words at the right time - God can use the worse evil for his good, as evidenced by the crucifixion of Jesus.

But yes, anything that is likely to come between you and God, you should just avoid. I try, but fail often on that advice myself.

Problem with so many of man's tools and inventions - the more powerful the concept is, the more likely it will be used for evil. Imagine a hypothetical world where it was completely 100% governed by God's law and love...

Things like - RFID tracking, Computers would be fantastic tools. Children could wear RFID bracelets and if they got lost, you could find them in minutes.

Computers could be used for handicapped people to work easily, the deaf could read all day, the blind could listen to countless books on the internet. Nuclear technology would be used for just power and medicine.

And on and on... but alas; pride insures we will never really have anything to be personally proud of - all these devices will be twisted for evil use. The more powerful the device, the more evil can use it.

But we can be proud of our God and his love and mercy. I would only say to pray and if it's put on your heart to ditch the tube - by all means, toss it right out.

But I also agree!! We must be vigilant, much of this is out there to 'coerce' us into complacency. Funny now - I watch stuff from years ago; movies from the 30's, 40's... on up - and do see the slow degradation of morals along the way. Easy to see in hindsight, huh?

Often TV will just outright disgust me, but on another note, it's a good way to keep vigilant when you notice what's going on. I suppose they don't call it 'programming' for nothing, huh?  Angry
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« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2011, 03:50:47 am »

Quote
So shouldn't you folks get rid of your internet? There is WAY more access to horrible, sinful stuff on the internet than on tv! Some folks are just bound to be pharisees and legalize themselves to death! WORSE, they legalize their brothers and sisters in Christ to death! If you put ANYTHING before God it is an idol...this includes worrying about what others are doing in their walk with the Lord! If God doesn't want you to watch tv, I promise He will convict you through the Holy Spirit. Man, all this time spent legalizing others to death instead of telling the lost how GREAT our God is! Could you imagine the changes we could make in this world (including myself) if we stopped trying to be everyone's Holy Spirit? I'm not trying to call anyone out in particular, God just put this on my heart and i felt I should share.
Keep the main thing (Jesus) the main thing!

I want to ask you: do you know what legalizing is according to the King James Bible? Could you give us an example?

The Internet is far ahead of TV, one can virtually eliminate the bad stuff if they want to.
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« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2011, 09:25:00 am »

Well, while we're at this subject - throughout my years in public school, I remember teachings showing secular Hollywood movies(and their other products) during classes. No, they weren't p0rn, $ex, or other filth, but nonetheless, secular stuff kids shouldn't even be watching.

For example, in my 11th grade Religion class(in a Catholic HS), we were shown a movie about a HS football player(and popular among his classmates) came out of the closet after a pedifile truck driver jumped him in the bathroom, and how his best friend(Happy Days' Scott Baio) had to deal with it. This was way back in 1989(when homosexuals were "still in the closet"), which is why it shocked me why it was shown in all places in my "Religion" class. Surprisingly, most of my class was accepting toward this movie. We were also shown "Spartacus"(the 1950's Kirk Douglass movie - nonetheless, this movie had alot of violence in it).

Funny how public schools stress how kids need to read, read, and read, but they find many opportunities to show secular filth to the kids.
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« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2011, 02:36:48 pm »

Well, they are secular, so secular is what they do.
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« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2011, 03:20:18 am »

Well, while we're at this subject - throughout my years in public school, I remember teachings showing secular Hollywood movies(and their other products) during classes. No, they weren't p0rn, $ex, or other filth, but nonetheless, secular stuff kids shouldn't even be watching.

For example, in my 11th grade Religion class(in a Catholic HS), we were shown a movie about a HS football player(and popular among his classmates) came out of the closet after a pedifile truck driver jumped him in the bathroom, and how his best friend(Happy Days' Scott Baio) had to deal with it. This was way back in 1989(when homosexuals were "still in the closet"), which is why it shocked me why it was shown in all places in my "Religion" class. Surprisingly, most of my class was accepting toward this movie. We were also shown "Spartacus"(the 1950's Kirk Douglass movie - nonetheless, this movie had alot of violence in it).

Funny how public schools stress how kids need to read, read, and read, but they find many opportunities to show secular filth to the kids.

i can remember in religious studies we students were shown a teen show and in that episode fornication was taking place!! The teen show was called degrassi high. I dont know if you can remember it or not but i used to watch all the episodes.
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« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2011, 03:26:01 am »

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degrassi high

That show had nothing to do with Christianity. Totally secular. Basically a teen soap.
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« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2011, 03:33:36 am »

Your right i remember it had no Christian content and it was set in New York or Chicago? Roll Eyes

My school years were mostly wasted as i did play alot of video games and watch alot of tv, i was a worldly person back then. I'm so happy that the Lord Jesus showed me what i have seen. But i first had the responsibility to seek truth for myself. Draw nigh to God and He will draw nigh to you is a great memory verse for early Christians and lost people.
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« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2011, 09:12:52 am »

i can remember in religious studies we students were shown a teen show and in that episode fornication was taking place!! The teen show was called degrassi high. I dont know if you can remember it or not but i used to watch all the episodes.

I remember watching all the degrassi jr. high episodes(never saw the high school ones) - this show in the 80's was one of many shows that gave these "let's accept teens who have babies out of wedlock" messages(as one of the characters, who was portrayed as rebellious as well). No, they weren't exactly glorifying teens who got into fornication and then pregnant, but nonetheless, ultimately, all the subliminal messages that came out was the ones of "acceptance" and "sympathy"(which in turn pretty much has lead children to believe subconsciously that fornication is acceptable). There were other sitcoms that era that had pregnant teens.

Pretty much the entire 1980's films, tv shows, and music planted the seeds for future generations to come(yeah, I know it was going on since the 60's, but the 80's was really high drive, as MTV first came about).
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« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2011, 08:18:31 am »

I want to ask you: do you know what legalizing is according to the King James Bible? Could you give us an example?
Matt 23:24  Maybe I used the wrong term? Legalism was what i was striving for.

The Internet is far ahead of TV, one can virtually eliminate the bad stuff if they want to.
And you can't do that with tv? I'm not following you here.
Not really sure what you are getting at here, unless it was my misuse of the term legalism. If that was the case, please accept my apology! Grin
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« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2011, 03:05:09 am »

Matthew 23:
24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

How is that legalism?

I dont know if you know what legalism is according to the KJV. Pentecostals/Charismatics use the term alot without knowing what Jewish legalism is.
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« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2011, 03:17:33 am »

There is really two basic forms of "legalisms". Or rather better said two "perspectives"; Christian and non-Christian.

Both put people under the burden of the law/a law, be it God's law, Levitical Law, or non-biblical law, to fulfill that law, or risk punishment.

Jesus spoke of legalisms...

44   Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are as graves which appear not, and the men that walk over [them] are not aware [of them]. 
45   Then answered one of the lawyers, and said unto him, Master, thus saying thou reproachest us also. 
46   And he said, Woe unto you also, [ye] lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers. 
47   Woe unto you! for ye build the sepulchres of the prophets, and your fathers killed them. 
48   Truly ye bear witness that ye allow the deeds of your fathers: for they indeed killed them, and ye build their sepulchres. 
49   Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and [some] of them they shall slay and persecute: 
50   That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation; 
51   From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation. 
52   Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered. 
53   And as he said these things unto them, the scribes and the Pharisees began to urge [him] vehemently, and to provoke him to speak of many things: 
54   Laying wait for him, and seeking to catch something out of his mouth, that they might accuse him. 
Luke 11:44-54 (KJB)


5   I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren? 
6   But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers. 
7   Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather [suffer yourselves to] be defrauded? 
8   Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that [your] brethren.
1 Corinthians 6:5-8 (KJB)
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« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2011, 10:03:50 am »

Matthew 23:
24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

How is that legalism?

I dont know if you know what legalism is according to the KJV. Pentecostals/Charismatics use the term alot without knowing what Jewish legalism is.

Since this is the second time you have brought this up, perhaps I do not know what you believe legalism means according to the KJV. Would you please enlighten me?
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« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2011, 01:22:27 pm »

How about this?


 LEGALISM
I. Biblical references to "legalism"

    A. The term "legalism" is not used in the Bible
    B. The concept of "legalism" is found extensively throughout the Bible.
         1. Old Testament
              Isa. 29:13 - (Quoted in Matt. 15:8,9; Mk. 7:6,7
         2. New Testament examples
              Matt. 5:20-28
              Matt. 23:1-28
              Gal. 2:11-21
              Gal. 3:1-3
              Col. 2:16-23

II. Defining some terms

    A. Nomism - law based structure and standards..., enforced by threat of penalty or promise of
         meritorious reward.
         1. Theological - ...to determine spiritual condition or destiny.
         2. Sociological - ...to control human behavior
              a. Government
              b. Religion
    B. Moralism - establishing particular rules, regulations, principles or precepts as the standard           ethical values of a social grouping. Legislated morality and ethics.
    C. Legalism - social or self-acceptance of the observance of law, and conformity to the
         requirements thereof, as the basis of...
         1. Theological determination of spiritual condition or destiny
         2. Sociological/religious control of human behavior
    D. Gospel of grace - the good news of the availability of a spiritual exchange whereby the
            presence of the Spirit of God indwells the spirit of a man, allowing for the character of
            God to be expressed in the behavior of a man by the dynamic empowering and enabling
            of the Spirit of the risen Lord Jesus .

III. Underlying causes of legalism

    A. humanistic concept of self-control - "I'm in control of how things go."
    B. humanistic concept of self-effort, "works" - trying, striving, "I can do it";
         1. "You must do it, keep it, practice it, perform it."
         2. Meritorious benefits therefrom; achieve the goal
    C. false security needs for defined parameters, limitations, borders
    D. work-ethic concept of strict reciprocity - "get what you work for"
    E. punitive concept of getting what one deserves
    F. traditionalism of maintaining status quo
    G. simplism of dividing life into compartments with instant solutions; fundamentalism.
         Got a handle on it - all figured out. Instant solutions - don't have to think or trust.
    H. fear of freedom, of decision-making responsibility (Rom. 8:15)
    I. security need for something that is fixed and static, concrete and tangible. Inordinate need to
         be safe and right
    J. a favorite of sadomasochistic personalities; perfectionists, Pharisees.

IV. Features of legalism

    A. Law-based codes of conduct; rules and regulations, dos and don'ts.
    B. Performance orientation. Expectations, obligations, duties, observances, routines, procedures,
         formulas, how-tos, shoulds, oughts, "thou-shalts"
    C. Negativism, abstinence, "Thou shalt not..."
    D. Legal sense of obedience, rather than Lordship sense of obedience. Obey rules rather than
         God.
    E. Externalization; outward conformity to standards (Matt. 23:5-7; 25-28) F. Inflexible, rigid.          Principle precedes people.
    G. Oppressive, demanding. Burdensome (Lk. 11:46; Matt. 23:1-5)
    H. Authoritarian, manipulative.
    I. Intolerant, violent. Fighting, feuding, hostility, accusations of heresy.
    J. Competitive, comparisons, resentments.
    K. Exclusivism, elitism, bigotry.
    L. Pride, arrogance, self-righteousness, ego-centricity. Badge of honor, status, orthodoxy.
    M. Ostentation, show-off. "How do we look?" (Lk. 15:1,2); approval of men.
    N. Critical, judgmental (Jn. 7:24; Rom. 2:1), suspicious.
    O. Insensitive, unloving, lack of compassion.

V. Consequences of legalism

    A. Keeps people distanced and alienated from God. Afraid of God, the taskmaster. Afraid of
         God's rejection. No assurance or security.
    B. Guilt, condemnation (Rom. 8:1), accusation, disapproval (both objective and subjective).
    C. Defeat, despair, frustration, futility. "It's a losing battle. I can never do enough, be good
         enough, do it right and perfect as expected." Burned out!
    D. Self-destructive behavior; self-belittling, sense of worthlessness, low personal concept of
         oneself.
    E. Hypocrisy. Play-acting; role-playing; lip-service (Matt. 15:8,9). Contrived piety, perfunctory
         performance, pretense, ostentation.
    F. Minimalization. What do I have to do to get by, to side-step the rules? G. Impersonalization;
         shallow personal relationships because they relate to law rather that to Person of Jesus Christ
         and other persons.

VI. The Christian gospel vs. legalism

    A. Contrariety of legalism to Christian gospel
         1. Legalism is contrary to the Grace dynamic of God in Jesus Christ
         2. Legalism is contrary to faith, our receptivity of God's activity; a satanic substitute that
              supplants faith.
         3. Legalism is contrary to the Lordship of Christ, wherein He directs and guides our lives.
         4. Legalism is contrary to Christian obedience, which is "listening under" the direction of the
              living Lord Jesus Christ.
         5. Legalism is contrary to the Spirit-led Christian life, wherein the Spirit of Christ enables and
              empowers. (Eph. 5:18;
         6. Legalism is contrary to freedom in Christ, and the liberty that is to be realized in present
              kingdom living. (John 8:31,32,36; II Cor. 3:17; Gal. 5:1,17)
    B. Reaction and response to legalism by Christians
         1. Christianity is not a legal, judicial, law-based religion
         2. Must not assume that legalism is the only alternative to antinomianism, license or
              libertarianism. (II Tim. 3:5)
         3. Must not assume that legalism is just another innocuous approach to Christian living.
              a. Legalism is the basis of religion that binds people up, and ties them back, to rules,
                  regulations and rituals, thus enslaving them to the sin of self-effort.
              b. Legalism is a radically opposite counterfeit of Christianity
         4. Legalism is sin. (Gal. 3:3; 5:4)
         5. Legalism is idolatrous, setting up an independent standard of law as the basis of rightness,  rather than God's righteousness.
         6. Legalism is not to be tolerated or condoned, but to be exposed and eschewed. (Gal. 1:6-9)
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